Name of Church Chapel Hill
Address Although the church is open to the public, it is located on private property and has no address. Take the CA-46 east from Paso Robles, take the Shandon exit (W. Centre Street) to McMillan Canyon Road; it is off McMillan.
Phone number Call (805) 238-7110 for information. It is the number for the Clark Company of Paso Robles, but they’d be happy to give you information.
Website None.
Mass times Most Sundays, 8 a.m. (Spanish) and 10 a.m. The priest-celebrant varies; the church operates under the auspices of St. Rose of Lima Church in Paso Robles.
Confessions See the St. Rose confession schedule, or make a request.
School No.
Fellow parishioners Primarily residents of Shandon, some tourists.
Parking For Sunday Mass, you can drive up the back road and park by the church. At other times of the week, you have to park down below and walk up a steep hill and through a couple of archways to the church.
Acoustics Fine. In fact, classical concerts have been held in the church.
Cry room No.
Additional observations Chapel Hill is a privately owned chapel in San Luis Obispo County. It was built by Judge William Clark who served on the California Supreme Court and as National Security Advisor and Secretary of Interior with the Reagan administration in the 1980s. He was a practicing Catholic, as well as an attorney and rancher. He built the chapel on the hill above his ranch as a gift to the community. In 1988, Clark, who was a pilot, was nearly killed in a plane crash when the plane he was piloting was caught in a strong crosswind shortly after takeoff. The plane crashed beside the runway, nearly missing a fuel storage unit. A ranch hand pulled him from the wreckage, and though seriously injured, Clark survived. He resolved to build the chapel in thanksgiving to God for his life. For much of his adult life he was an enthusiastic supporter of Thomas Aquinas College in Santa Paula. Clark died August 10, 2013 at age 81. Clark’s son, Pete, continues his father’s business interests and maintains the chapel. Chapel Hill is built in the mission style; some of its interesting features are a rose window behind the altar, the “river of life” pattern on its entry doors, bell tower, elaborately detailed Spanish ceilings and many other beautiful details. There are no buildings surrounding it; it sits alone on top of a hill.
Beautiful church. Great story about how it was built.
It is too bad there is not a picture showing the inside of the chapel. Often times churches and chapels are better off when they are privately owned, so the diocesean reck o vators cannot destroy these houses of worship. Look at the Chapel of Loretto in Santa Fe, New Mexico. Had the archdiocese maintained it, it would have been made quite ugly. But as it is, a hotel chain owns it, and it has been preserved from the destroyers of the sacred, and not been transformed into a profane building., even though the Blessed Sacrament is not reserved there..
You are absolutely correct in that, Father, regarding the Chapel of Loretto. Thank God it was spared. I visited there last summer and was touched by the sense of the sacred, even without the Blessed Sacrament being present.
My experiences was the exact opposite when going down the street to view the Cathedral. The desolation experienced there as I hunted for Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament didn’t really depart when I came upon the ‘adoration’ chapel round back. I’d rather not interpret my ‘feelings’ on the subject.
But to whoever can, visit the Chapel at Loretto!
Father Karl: You never miss a chance to spew negativity, do you? You have absolutely no idea how this chapel would have been maintained had it belonged to the diocese. None. Same with the Chapel of Loretto in Santa Fe. The fact is the Diocese of Monterey is home to five California Missions and most are in excellent shape/finish (especially the Basilica in Carmel) which suggests it is capable of doing a good job of maintaining structures. Why not celebrate the fact that this small chapel is well appointed/maintained rather than use it as an excuse to attack yet again?
Ann Malley: This chapel is near Shandon, CA — quite a distance from the diocese’s cathedral in Monterey. FWIW the tabernacle is DIRECTLY behind the altar at this cathedral. Sadly, during the Mass it is hidden behind a tiny set of “frosted glass swinging saloon doors/sneeze guards.” A ridiculous invention whose only sin is that it brings attention to itself (“who would be obtuse enough to come up with that?”) and I’m sure it cost something to build.
R.B. Rodda – thanks for the clarification. I’m still with Fr. Karl regarding the chapel at Loretto. While I do not know absolutely how things would have worked out had the diocese gotten hold of the chapel, experience leads me to be glad that they didn’t.
You can call it negativity if you’d like. For me, it’s just getting burned a lot and wondering why there is such a loathing of beauty, history, and tradition. Not just in California. And I am ecstatic that the California Missions have been preserved.
My home Church in San Jose, CA is so completely ‘wreckovated’ it made me cry. And not just out of sentimentality.
The fact is the Diocese of Monterey is home to five California Missions and most of them are very well preserved.
This constant steam of negativity is very unchristian.
The missions of California are also tied in with the state of California and it’s founding. That said there would be a public outcry if these churches were wrecked. So while I am relieved that the Diocese of Monterey has preserved them, I am not convinced that it is solely due to the acknowledgement of their traditional beauty by Church leadership. (too many wrecked churches testify to the opposite)
Regarding negativity, it really comes down to what you term ‘negativity’ RB. Many on this board are liberal to a fault, that is trying to put a positive spin on anything and everything so as not to appear judgmental or negative. Often times, it is the individual that for whatever reason – depression, anxiety, OCD, scrupulosity – cannot handle negativity (aka: unpleasant reality) in any aspect because it will set them on a downward spiral of despair.
But it is okay to admit that the Church seems to be going through her Passion. Read the signs of the times. Our Lady knew at the foot of the cross that Our Lord would rise from the dead, but I doubt she was grinning, chuckling, or having light conversation with those who were putting her Son to death.
Rodda the only negative person here is YOU. You sound like a rebellious child acting out because his parents said something he didn’t like even if they spoke out of reality and truth. Whatever anger issues you have Rodda, you are spending them on the wrong things. The devil loves to add division and keep many distracted on the wrong things. You need to use your gifts, your energy on what matters the most. Attacking a good and faithful priest here, is out of line.
Father is a breath of fresh air, a voice that reasons. Rodda you don’t have to go far to get support from your secular pals, for those are many but the treasures, the real treasures are really rare, and for you to bash the rarity of those treasures, is very telling of how wrong this society has gone. No wonder we will continue to see more and more persecution on God’s true lay faithful, more and more…even on Catholic websites, all for the sake of even giving the enemy more voice.
Fr. Karl, based on your comment here and most of your other comments on this site, you must be a very unhappy person and lead a life where there is no happiness. Christians, by their sole belief in Jesus’ redemptive power are called to be joyful people. I hope things improve for you!
Keep on with the happy gas, Bob One. Whatever it takes to gag down the wonders of Food Court Church Architecture and tortured stick art.
But some, like Fr. Karl, are made of tougher stuff and aren’t as easily anesthetized.
Good on ya!
I very much agree! This story provided an excellent opportunity to give praise — to Clark, to the Church and to Jesus Christ for such a great gift. Instead Fr. Karl used it as an opportunity to attack the diocese.
Spreading joy is a commendable attribute. Constantly judging and attacking is not.
I’m praying for your happiness too, Fr. Karl. Thanks for your kindness, Bob One!!!
Martin how sad that you would think that worldly happiness if far greater….the joys of heaven are better and Father Karl knows it…..I hope it’s not too late for many to find that out before their end times.
Bob One, it is your opinion sir…you are the unhappy one and so is Rodda! For true happiness is not what you define it to be but what is waiting for us as we eagerly wait for our Lord. Your attack on Father Karl, just because you disagree with him, is telling, it is your ugly pride that gets in the way.
Bob One your so called joy is based on a childlike naivete that ignores or denies the crisis in the Church that has been going on for decades, Fr. Karl is speaking the truth which as a liberal must be hard for you to accept .. Undo Vatican 2
No.
He’s constantnly spreading negativity! His comments are totally devoid of faith and hope. Re-read the article. There was no reason to attack the diocese. This also has absolutely nothing to do with VC2.
Rodda such hypocrisy on your part,,,you are the negative one here. Who are you to define what is negative? Attacking a faithful priest is a negative action…..you figure out the rest!
Canisius, Pope Francais has called for full implementation of the reforms of Vatican II, which he has indicated are far from completed. If this is the case, some or many are in for more opportunities to be unhappy. Vatican II was called to open the windows of the church and let in some fresh air. The windows were closed as soon as possible after the council by clerics who felt threatened by change and who saw their roles as “princes” and lords of their domains potentially wither. It seems that more is to come. Keep in mind that this new Pope is a Jesuit and looks at things a little differently than us conservatives.
Relax, Bob One. Just turn up your happy gas- whatever it is you use to gag down the Food Court Church Architecture and stick art – and keep smiling.
Unfortunately for you, Fr. Karl, is made of sterner stuff and can’t be as easily anesthetized when faced with such rabid destruction. So just look the other way as Truth marches by. It’ll be all right. And don’t forget to adjust your dosage.
Once again this had nothing to do with being made of “sterner stuff.” It’s about constantly posting negative and combative thoughts.
There was absolutely nothing negative contained in this story until Fr. Karl brought his very predictable and negative view to it. Constantly spewing negatively is not becoming of a Catholic cleric. It’s ugly. The excuse “it’s the truth!” just doesn’t cut the mustard. It’s wrong and its seeds are in something very dark that needs to be remedied.
Constant spewing of happy-clappy is not worthy of a true cleric either, R.B. That said, until you have had something that you hold dear and true and sacred and holy ripped from you (something – or should I say Someone – to whom you have pledged your entire being) only to have it replaced with a saccharine cardboard cutout that leaves you starved, will you understand.
What you view as negativity – to me – seems more like PAIN.
Our Lord’s words on the cross, “…My God, My God, why have You abandoned Me…” come to mind. Those are words of deep anguish. Pain. Suffering. Bereavement.
By the modern way of thinking, Our Lord, because He knew everything would turn out okay in the end, should have just grinned and sung a song.
The ‘Christian’ thing to do would be to listen to this person’s tale of woe and pain and try to understand it. Try to compassionate their LOSS. Comfort them. Listen to the depth of aguish that you don’t understand and ask yourself WHY they feel the pain they do.
Or would you go to a funeral and just tell the widow to get over it. Being sad is a waste and a bad example. After all, your husband is in Heaven so just ignore the empty office, the old suits hung in the closet, the anguish of an empty table, etc, etc. etc. The idea is JOY in suffering. Not just joy.
Ann Malley,
Thank you for your comforting, compassionate, eloquent and insightful posts. Our Legion of Mary spiritual director said the same thing to us several years ago. “The Church is going through the Passion.”
Please use your search engine to see this painting ….Carl Heinrich Bloch
Description: English: An angel comforting Jesus before his arrest in the Garden of Gethsemane
Date – 1865-1879
I love this picture, Catherine. Thank you for the link :)
Bob One, Yes, it surely looks like Father Karl’s caring and truthful comment pricked the unhappy place in Bob One’s conscience. Bob One, You certainly were not displaying sole belief and joyfulness in the redemptive power of Jesus Christ when you posted comments praising the ACLU. Bob One, Were you just testing the water level of happiness amongst gullible readers when you chose to show such happiness and delight in such an anti-Catholic organization? Certain comments on this website such as canonizing clergy who ridicule Church teaching on same sex marriage and comments that praise anti-Catholic groups might make some people very happy but those comments are not pleasing to Jesus. Bob One, Why did you praise the ACLU?
You took a very innocent and light article about a chapel and tried to relate it to “same sex marriage” and “comments that praise anti-Catholic groups” in an attempt to condone Fr. Karl’s continuously negative comments.
You’re not fooling anyone. Why not try to help your friend rather than make excuses for his unacceptably negative behavior?
Try not to come off as nauseatingly blind, R.B. Rodda and perhaps folks wouldn’t feel the need to defend someone, Fr. Karl in this instance, whose only crime is stating the truth as observable by anyone with eyes.
I’m still trying to understand your ‘… unacceptably negative,’ comment. Talk about your thought police.
Fr. Karl’s comments are continuously negative. That’s bad form. It’s also indicative of someone with a problem.
This article was an opportunity to experience a tiny bit of joy from something good. Instead he injected negativity into the conversation with an attack on the diocese.
Like it not that’s not healthy.
Your focus for ‘positive’ seems rooted in what is supposedly ‘healthy’, R.B. That is your thoughts are directed toward physical health and mental health. Not a bad thing, by any means. But NOT the priority of a cleric.
The transmission of Truth is paramount. Teaching the sheep to watch and pray – that is to watch out. Beware. Look at the fruits or lack thereof all around you. The times are treacherous.
That said, if you truly believe that Fr. Karl has a problem, why do you not address him with Christian charity in assessing his pain and anguish. The same goes for the promotion of the Latin Mass.
All I’ve seen from you – and admittedly, I’ve been here a short time – is the “…LOL, think again. No way.” Narrow minded modernist thinking. Progress or nothing. No appreciation for tradition, elders, past Popes, nothing. Just straight modernist party line.
Are you subject to depression? Is that why you are so adamant not to discuss the merits of Tradition? Just curious. Because looking at the current state of affairs in the Church is no happy business. Sadly similar to watching the Crucifixion must have been. But that’s no reason to deny reality.
R.B. Rodda says:
July 17, 2013 at 10:40 pm
EWTN is OK overall. It’s programming ranges from very good to horrible.
“Some of the other programming borders on being terribly arrogant, fundamentalist and is in error laden. Things have improved with the impairment of Mother Angelica and will continue to improve with the passing of Deacon Bill.”
How very DARK and uncharitable is that comment Rodda?
RB, Father Karl is absolutely right to warn the faithful about the wreckovating of churches. One of the most well known church wreckovaters (perhaps one of your friends) tried to pull a fast one and marry a couple inside this beautiful little chapel even though his faculties had been removed. The Clark family was contacted by faithful friends and the family immediately put a stop to this abomination, so it never got to take place. According to you Rodda the faithful should put on blinders while resting in a hammock sipping mint juleps and pretend that there is not a raging battle taking place for the souls of men.
Your heart has become so very hardened and it is not a good thing. You should not be serving men before you serve God. That is what YOU are doing. What compromise has you consistently attacking a certain Cardinal or priests who speak of the importance of keeping the meaning of what is held sacred ? Just the mere mention of protecting the sacred and all of the sudden your posts turn into a depiction of Count Dracula’s same reaction when a crucifix is placed in front of his or your face. RB Something dreadful has a hold of your heart and you are in great need of spiritual direction from very same kind of good priests that you consistently growl at. Please show more respect for the sacred and ask God to help you open up your very hardened heart.
Rodda Catherine is fine! It is you who is not helping yourself. Your spew is not with Catherine but with what she truthfully said. Go to confession Rodda, this bad will of yours is not producing good fruit. I pray for your hardened heart. It will take Jesus to soften your heart.
I recall on the article of that nun from Tijuana Mexico who has passed away, and Father Karl said the most sweetest things in prayer for her soul. Father Karl is a good gentleman, before his comments I wasn’t sure what I was going to comment but when he commented, he softened my heart and that very day I prayed for that sweet nun. She did a lot for the prisoners and the poor of spirit. I know very much that Father Karl is also praying for everyone here…HE Knows how much we need it and the devil hates him for praying for US here! So the devil attacks Father Karl, through using others…..the devil is angry that a good and faithful priest is praying of us all!
The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) is a nonpartisan non-profit organization whose stated mission is “to defend and preserve the individual rights and liberties guaranteed to every person in this country by the Constitution and laws of the United States. If it didn’t exist, we would have to invent it. American values include everyone, not just the rich, white folks who are in the upper 1 %. If someone is hungry, we must feed them. If they are homeless we much provide shelter, if they are without a job we must train them and help them get a job, etc. In other words, we must be Catholic. Our new Pope has said that he wants to bring VII to its fruition and glory, to further what has hardly begun. We are on the precipice of a new church dedicated to justice for all, not just the rich.
….to defend the ‘rights’ of individuals to the expense of other individuals. Yes, that is what the ACLU does, Bob One. And this when our faith calls us to mutual charity.
As for the precipice of a new church…. you are correct. That’s why I opt to stick with the old one. ‘Justice for all’ is the watchword for the creation of a political state. An earthly kingdom. Not the Kingdom of Heaven.
I suspect very few have any clue what the ACLU is all about. They have simply been programmed to react negatively and stridently when they hear those four letter A C L U.
Visit their website, R.B. Rodda and read all about it. Page one celebrates that which is offense to God.
Rodda what an ignorant point of view……did you know that I use to volunteer for Concerned Women for America? It was there where I learned about the anti God actions that the ACLU was doing. You surely say ignorant things or maybe you do know but you refuse to see….who do you think you are fooling? Don’t insult our intelligence….we are not ignorant people, especially since we are active in politics and such, just to try to get our voices heard and our values too. Its no secret that ACLU is mostly anti-family values. Its no secret at all ..and I am just putting it nicely here….there is so much more to describe ACLU..yes siree bob….
The Thomas Moore Law center also, when I was a member with them a while back, they use to inform the people of what ACLU was up to. Their court cases too and their law suits display how twisted they are(The ACLU). Rodda your creditability here is long time gone…..you must have an agenda of some sort to deny the facts about the ACLU.
Dear Catherine, We praise the ACLU because, unlike you, it defends the constitution and the contistutional rights of individuals, whether we like it or not. And TRUSt ME, there have been times when I whished they had taken opposite positions, but they stake their claim within the constitution and stand by it. Do you? Or are you a pseudo-American?
If it is a choice between being a psuedo-American or a pseudo-Catholic, which are we as Catholics supposed to choose, YFC? When push comes to shove and issues arise that ‘we’ would wish were different – are we basing our disappointment on the laws of God or on our own personal opinion.
I mean, if the laws of God are being battered by the ACLU, wouldn’t it be the primary duty of one who loves God above all else, to take the position of God first?
I’d really like to understand your position.
Now we have people praising the ACLU….Rodda I hope you are happy…your supporters love the ACLU! God have mercy!
No YFC not at all, they want to change the Constitution and have lost common decency and common sense because they lack morals!
Please don’t stop Father Karl, the lefties hate it when they are wrong all the time, pray for the return of The Mass of All Times The Traditional Latin Mass.
“The Mass of All Times The Traditional Latin Mass.” <— LOL!! Wrong!! Keep telling yourself that! ;)
Keep telling yourself that sawdust dressed up with lard and fake salt is really meat, R.B. You do not know or understand the difference.
Much like Charlton Heston’s character in ‘Soylent Green’ when Edward G. Robinson was dying: “…I didn’t know, Sol. I didn’t know.”
And nobody is faulting you for that R.B. It’s just another testament to the Passion of Holy Mother Church. But please take a moment to consider the wisdom of others, that is those who have sacrificed and died before us specifically to preserve that which the modern church seemingly discards with such rampant abandon.
I don’t get the purpose of this website! I keep visiting a Christian website and for some reason, I see their purpose, I don’t see or read those Christians bashing themselves from within their own church followers…maybe that website does not tolerate this kind of bashing and the kind that goes against their Biblical values. I posted a few things and was even welcomed and not once did they bash me for being Catholic, and if someone did, I’m sure the monitors would not have permitted that kind of uncharitable remarks. We are already being unwelcomed in the secular but in a Catholic website too, those who oppose the faith are the outsiders, they need to learn to respect when they are visiting anything Catholic. We need to practice this freedom before they take that away too!
I wonder why the “traditionalists” don’t call the EF Mass by its actual name? They must refer to the EF Mass as the “tlm” on EWTN.
Interesting how the tlm is hundreds of years newer than many of the Eastern Divine Liturgies. I suspect the Mass of the early church was a great deal more like a Divine Liturgy or the OF Mass than the excuse me, “tlm.”
and you wonder why? Because of the differences….the hardened of hearts…one must speak their language and one must see the consequences of what the abuses have produced. Sin complicates things…..again I remind you!
The Mass of all ages CCC 1345-1347
Why don’t you tell that to the Lord it is his Holy Mass!! Very disturbing response to the Holy Mass of All Times.
I agree Janek, their comments are disturbing…
“Father Karl” is correct. Sorry “Bob One” and “R.B. Rodda,” but the loss of the sacred in church architecture leads to the loss of the sacred in the use and transmission of the sacraments. Case in point: visiting Norfolk, VA and attending Mass at Sacred Heart Catholic Church. That Church is beautiful, constructed in the Romanesque form, with wonderful mosaic murals and high altar. Of course, the card table is now front and center, along with folding chairs placed haphazardly in front of the altar, and on which the guitar players and hootenanny choir threw their coats, boots, and the like. Imagine, this is the sacred space that a mere generation or two ago was the source of the miracle of the Mass. Now, the Mass is a veritable laundry list of what is wrong with the Church: much talking, pre- and during Mass, silly homily, stressing (whatever the readings) that everything translated into Christ’s demand for “justice” for all (with only secular issued mentioned), no sense of the holiness of the sacrifice that was unfolding, no one kneels after the Sanctus, ever (except for the few that care about the fact of the consecration, assuming it actually occurs there), communion given out in the form of bread squares, a truly terrible source of music, made more awful by the use of the piano and poor guitar playing, mandatory hand-holding during the “Our Father” (except for the few people that knelt during the consecration) — a wrenching experience to any that love the Mass and Catholic Faith. In fact, the election of Francis has lead a number of pastors and bishops into previously withheld “wreck-o-vations” as suggested by “Fr. Karl.” Keep it up, Father!
What a waste of space when they put the” dinner table” in front of the magnificent High Altar when there already is an altar there. Great comments by the way.
Pay not attention to the Novus Ordonarians ranting about Father Karl and others in the comments here, they will defend wreckovators of our churches they hate the high altars, communion rails, statues, crucifixes, and anything remotely Roman and Catholic, I too hope the little chapel did not suffer from Novus Orodnation wreckovations. Continue defending Holy Mother Church Father Karl and our Roman Catholic symbols in churches. Pray for the return of The Traditional Latin Mass to all of our churches.
Janek I also attend the NO, lets not bring division because the gift of reason is not only given to who regularly attend the TLM, even though I can understand what you are saying, Rodda is just that aching reminder why our church is suffering. I reason freely too and grew up in the NO mass and I consider myself Traditional and even Charismatic and from what I read from most of Father Karl’s comments, I agree with what he has commented.
Lets not give into more to what Rodda is spewing, lets pray for him as well. But be aware, that you will be spiritually attacked, just like Father Karl is being attacked too because he is praying for us and the devil is angry. You wonder how I know this…because anyone that somewhat understands the spiritual world, on what has been revealed from our merciful Lord, is that the devil hates the faithful priests especially when their prayers are done in perseverance and fortitude!
Thank you Father Karl for your prayers for us! God bless you and I will continue to pray for you!
Father Karl is being condemned by the very people who calls themselves Catholics. Why? because he represent the crucified Christ. Christ was crucified because he told us the truth about the Father. He did not come to this world like an earthly King but came into this world in a most unexpected way with no place in an inn and had to be born in a stable. This is far from the human expectations. Those who go against Father Karl are of this world and those who are for him are those few who see Christ in Father Karl’s heart. Father Karl is one of those courageous priest who is willing to be crucified with Christ. He is not a negative person but one who had led a life of a true follower of Christ; one who carries his cross daily for the sake of the Kingdom of God. By the grace of God, Father Karl is following the footsteps of Christ and the example of the Saints. Every Saint who love Christ and freely given their life to Christ had to carry the cross. The greatest sign of a true follower of Christ is the Cross that one rejoices in the very suffering that Christ allows us to have and when accepted with joy becomes redemptive. Not because a person criticizes the establishment makes that person NEGATIVE. Criticism could be constructive when taken in the light of the Truth. Thank you Father Karl for giving us the truth on what is going on in our Catholic Church. Thank you for being a courageous priest who is not afraid to tell the truth even if some so called Catholic throw stones on you. My prayers are with you and those who like you are brave enough to tell the truth.
Pilar AMEN TO THAT!
In the Diocese of Los Angeles, under the watchful eye of the former Cardinal, and on then beautiful, donated grounds of the seminary college, Padre Serra church was built. It is very much like the atrium at the mall, has little “sacredness” to it, is “in the round” and the only thing good about that is it distracts from the tortured corpus on the cross. I have seen many, some very realistic, and this one is not pretty. There is something wrong. His eyes are downcast. His body twisted. It doesn’t say “Holy” or “Sacrifice” or “Love”
interestingly enough, it is the most “social justice” themed Catholic Church I know. I wouldn’t go, but their 11am is just so convenient ; )
A church “In the round” is one of those cute catch phrases of hate by some. I have a question.
How exactly does a “church in the round” differ from a church with a nave, two transepts and a presbyterium surrounding the sanctuary? Any idea at all? Other than an improved view of the altar for more people, how do they differ?
I realize that EWTN and Catholic Answers has programmed some to hate “churches in the round”, but why do they typically love the equivalent layout I noted above? Please actually think about how the DIFFER before spewing the pre-programmed retort from EWTN and CA.
I wonder if anyone here will dare try to answer this without comments about abortion or the EF Mass? LOL!!
Here goes, R.B.
In a traditional church, the Tabernacle/Altar represents the Head (Christ), the Saints (that is on the side altars) are the arms, and the congregation in the pews are the body of the Church – as on the cross.
R.B. Rodda, Maybe you should try re-reading the CCD September 29, 2012 article with an open and humble mind.
“How a Catholic church should look: A sermon in stone and glass”
In it you will find your answer.
Really, does architecture matter that much? Gothic cathedrals are pretty. The architecture of the medieval/renaissance/colonial era churches is impressive, but no less so than Gaudi’s Sagrada Família. The LA Cathedral is gorgeous.
Who really cares anyway? There are countless traditional-looking churches that have been decommissioned due to shrinking attendance, and countless storefront inglesias that are thriving in ad-hoc spaces that are thrown together from folding tables and banquet chairs. Which of the two do you think is more amenable to God? Neither. A church can be a tent.
The Church started out very small and informal, and all the majesty came much later. The problem with traditionalism is that is obsesses on a mid-era of history. Having a favored architectural style is understandable, but trying to frame architecture as morality is bizarre.
Nobody is trying to frame architecture as morality, Barnett. That would be bizarre. The point being made here, is that there is a movement and has been a movement to change that which was held to be sacred. Not that things cannot change. But rather, why when things change does there seem to be this need to literally tear apart and round file what came before.
As a child, I received First Holy Communion on the tongue. I was instructed somewhat as to the whys about it and the holiness, etc. Just a few short years later I sat through a very memorable sermon deriding Communion on the tongue.
“You probably cannot imagine how disgusting it is to have a people stick their tongue out at you every morning. Yuck.” Said with a chuckle.
I’m not speaking for others on this thread, but that was my experience regarding the … let’s move on with the Spirit malarkey that wreckoved almost every reverential aspect of what we’d been formerly taught to hold dear.
Banal architecture is just another symptom.
The hate, ignorance and obfuscation displayed on this thread is troubling. After reading these for a while (and those on Catholic Answers) I now know why “traditionalists” hold such little power in the Church.
Has anyone else noticed the hundreds and hundreds (and hundreds!) of people banned on Catholic Answers Forums? I just noticed one person was banned who had over 17,000 posts to their credit! Attempt to stomp out ANYONE that disagrees with your EWTN/CA-forged beliefs no matter how at odds they are with what the Catholic Church actually teaches! Keep it up and “traditionalists” will have even less power in the Church going forward.
Please re-read this short, light, inspirational article. Then take a look at the ignorant and often bitter diatribe that followed it. Sad.
It’s not about holding power, R.B., numbers, or the admiration of the people. And it takes two for the “…hate, ignorance and obfuscation.” So stop the hate already and the notion that there is some need to fight.
If you really believed that Fr. Karl’s initial statements on this thread were the fruit of a troubled mind, why did you bait him? You did, you know. And there is culpability there for getting the ball rolling.
Just want to give the link to the article California Catholic Daily ran when Judge Clark passed away.
https://cal-catholic.com/wordpress/2013/08/10/reagan-friend-and-advisor-bill-clark-dies/
I will stipulate to two things related to this article. 1) The building looks beautiful and the story about its creation is uplifting. 2) I have never submitted a Church-Worth-Driving-To suggestion. In spite of these two admissions, I would like to make a suggestion to the editors and to those who do submit nominations. Let’s change the title to Parishes worth visiting. Let’s submit the names of parishes that are trully inspiring, that serve their community well, that represent all that is good about Christianity and Catholic Christians, that provide a deep sacramental life for its members, etc. Catholicism is not about architecture, per se, but about living the life that Christ wants us to live. Does the parish have a great music ministry (yes that includes every thing from piano and guitar to organ and chant), does it have a vibrant school with an emphasis on approaching everything from a Catholic point of view? Does the parish have a CYO program that is primarily about evangelization and not basketball? Do the priest give good homilies that help people get through the week and lead a better life? Is there a great community feeling in the parish – do people know each other, come to social events, participate in community activities? I suggest that we need to get away from hating everything. The cathedrals in LA and Oakland and Orange are not ugly, they are just different than those built hundreds of years ago. So are out hair styles. Being new does not equate to bad. Being old does nt equate to good. They are just different. Maybe a different approach to this one element of the CCD web site would help us become more Catholic and less a people who dislike everythiing.
Did Jesus have a “negative” personality?
“You blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!” Matt. 23:24
“You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.” Matt. 7:4
“You hypocrites, rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying, 8 ‘This people honors Me with their lips, But their heart is far away from Me.” 9 ‘But in vain do they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’” Matt. 15: 7-9
“You serpents, you brood of vipers, how shall you escape the sentence of hell?” Matt. 23:33
No Tracy He did not but through the eye’s of those with hardened hearts He does.
Your comments are noble and because you care enough to debate this, you persevere with fortitude and you don’t give up …you have so much love, that you keep trying to get the point across, I love that…..I see your goodness. God bless you. Keep on!
Thank you Abecca! The feeling is mutual! I really can’t stand those in the Church who marginalize the real Jesus .
Actually Abecca, I would argue that if you or I used some of the same words as Jesus towards our fellow man, we would instantly be called bigots, racist, homophobes, sexists,……… Well you know the game. In my mind, those with “hardened hearts” like to ignore this side of Jesus. They try to convince us that He was “tolerant” of every one and therefore so should we also be.
Tolerant- The capacity for or practice of recognizing and respecting the opinions, practices, or behavior of others.
If one wants to be truthful about Jesus he/she would see that Jesus was most intolerant (of sin that is)!
You understand, of course, that those were the things Jesus said to people who put obedience to religious rules over love of their fellow man.
Yes, Anonymous, Our Lord said these things to those who put the letter of the law above the spirit of the law. But the spirit of the law is intended to SAVE. That is why in the spirit of the law, we as Catholics should have the moral strength to teach the Truth in all Charity. Not turn a blind eye to those sins that kill…because they do.
We’re not talking about Sunday shopping, ritual washings, or travel laws here.
In a multitude of words, there lacks no sin.
Happy ten year anniversary to this argument!
Some people enjoy ripping off scabs and pouring salt into the wound.