Father Greb is the local chaplain for Courage.[/caption]
Name of Church St. Timothy Church
Address 1730 W. Guadalupe Road, Mesa AZ 85202
Phone number (480) 775-5200
Website www.sttimothymesa.org
Facebook https://www.facebook.com/sttimothychurch
Mass times Saturday vigil 5 pm; Sunday 8 am, 10 am, noon, 5 pm. Monday – Saturday, 8:30 am and Wednesday, 6:30 pm.
Confessions Tuesdays, 6:30 – 7:30 pm, Wednesdays, 5:30 – 6:15 pm, Saturdays, 9 – 10 am.
Names of priests Father John Greb, pastor. Father Augustine Acheme, Father Frankie Cicero, parochial vicars. Father Greb is the local chaplain for Courage, a group with ministers to people with same-sex attractions. Listen to homilies by Father Greb and the other priests of the parish on the parish YouTube channel.
Music choir, instrumentalists, seasonal instrumental choir. Listen to David Mares, director of music, discuss music ministry at the parish
School Yes, K-8th grade: https://www.sttimothytitans.org/.
Special parish groups Bible studies, Dominican laity, men’s and women’s ministries, youth and young adult groups (American Heritage Girls, Scouts, etc.), group for seniors (Young at Heart), A Stitch and a Prayer (makes prayer shawls), Culture of Life (listen to this homeschooling mom of five in the group talk about the sanctity of life), St. Vincent de Paul Society, Knights of Columbus, retreat opportunities, Catholic in Recovery chapter
Fellow parishioners English-speaking community.
Parking There is a large lot by the church.
Additional observations St. Timothy is a parish of the Diocese of Phoenix built in 1985. The parish has a gift shop open at different times throughout the week. It has a reliquarium (with saints’ relics) open daily. According to the diocesan bishop, it is one of the parishes in the Diocese of Phoenix producing vocations to the priesthood.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Not worth driving to. The music and liturgy here are horrible. They make it like a contemporary protestant service with sacropop music featuring rock drums. The church has auditorium style seating, so it feels more like a concert venue than a church. This is the birthplace of LifeTeen, where the now-defrocked pastor Fr. Dale Fushek groomed teenage boys for sex.
Watch their Masses at this YouTube link and see for yourself that this church is not worth driving to.
https://www.youtube.com/@sttimothymesa/streams
Seriously, listen to the Pentecost Mass and its music. You will want to stay away. Listen to the “Glory to God” from Pentecost, if you listen to nothing else.
I am shocked and disappointed that this parish is featured in this series.
This is a parish whose Mass I would walk out of if I had attended Mass there while on vacation without already knowing its character.
God bless you for warning everyone about this church. All Catholics ought to be provided with similar information, about churches and Masses to avoid, at places where they may go, on vacation. Glad that bad pedophile priest got defrocked– hope he also got sent to prison, and is not lurking around that area, sneaking up on kids to potentially harm.
I went to the website. Wow. Every parish should have such a dynamic site, one that is so informative.
I listened to the Pentecost Mass. The music was not to my taste, but that usually meant it was good for the rest of the congregation. I like the old, but there is nothing wrong with the new.
The preaching is outstanding. The Mass was very reverent.
The only flaw I saw was the request for parishioners to provide daily dinner for the priests. Really? Don’t they have a cook/housekeeper, or …?
I’ve known several people who have been blessed and edified by St. Timothy’s. Have you ever attended? (I have not.) Dale Fushek is an old man who was excommunicated by Bishop Olmsted 16 years ago and laicized shortly after. (He and another bad priest started their own “church.”) It is no more fair to bring up Fushek now than bringing up a medieval Borgia pope and saying the Catholic Church is bad because of him. Vocations to the priesthood, ministries for the young and old, those in need of recovery, those with same-sex attraction, American Heritage Girls, St. Vincent de Paul Society, Knights of Columbus, Bible studies, prolife activities and prayer meetings all seem like good things.
Other than music which some readers here might find poor, are there any serious negative things about this parish?
Why is that angel’s head on fire?
The thing about this parish is that it is strongly influenced by being where LifeTeen started. Thanks to the poster above, I watched the confirmation Mass with the new bishop. He pandered to them about their music, which I agree is sub-mediocre. It’s like people think rock music needs to be complimented just because this is where LifeTeen started and LifeTeen encourages rock music at Mass. “LifeTeen Mass” is synonymous with rock music at Mass, and every Mass at this parish is a LifeTeen Mass. They also do LifeTeen XLT adoration, which is rock music during adoration.
It’s very much a LifeTeen parish and will probably never get out from under that.
I don’t doubt good things are happening here. To hold the parish up as a model for the rest of the country to follow, though, is an error.
I’ve attended XLT at other parishes. How do you define rock music?
I’m old enough to remember rock music and it didn’t sound like what I heard at XLT. In your opinion, is all (or most) contemporary music “rock music?” Does a keyboard, piano or guitar make music “rock” in your mind?
Some contemporary religious music is appropriate at Mass (or even Adoration) and some is not appropriate.
This parish has obviously positively impacted numerous young people, including priests and men in formation. As our Lord said, “By their fruits you will know them.” (Matthew 7:20)
I’m moved to pray for the priests there and encourage others to do the same.
I’ll weigh in on XLT. I’ve been to several. The music consists largely of soft rock ballads of the “Jesus is my boyfriend” variety, sung by a breathy soloist. The musicians totally upstage the Blessed Sacrament. XLT was invented to give musicians a chance to perform in front of a captive audience of teens under the guise of adoration. It’s a Christian contemporary music concert with the Eucharist on the altar. The music is designed to manipulate the kids into having an emotional experience, which the kids confuse with or which the catechists erroneously identify as a spiritual experience. If the music gets kids to cry, the band and the youth leaders think mission accomplished.
Needless to say, I’m not a fan.
That’s not my experience of XLT nor that of many others I know. Can you share real examples of “Jesus is my boyfriend” songs? Who’s holding the teens “captive?” How do you know that “the music is designed to manipulate the kids?” Can you read the souls of those leading XLT? It seems something else is going on with your extreme claims about XLT. You don’t need to like the music nor do I. But, that’s not the issue. I pray for those serving youth, many who I’ve met and known over the years and who’ve served at considerable sacrifice. What are you and I doing to reach young people? If you know of an effective and fruitful way to reach young people, by all means, do so. And, please don’t judge others who do so differently. I know of vocations that have been fostered through Adoration like that of XLT. Judge the fruits of the work, not the hearts of the ministers (known only to God).
Here’s one song:
Lord I come, I confess
Bowing here, I find my rest
Without You, I fall apart
You’re the one that guides my heart
Lord, I need You, oh, I need You
Every hour, I need You
My one defense, my righteousness
Oh God, how I need You
Here’s another:
We are returning
To the place we’ve always belonged
Righted here with You
Take me back to the garden
Lead me be back to moment I heard Your voice
Take me back to communion
Lead me back to the moment I saw Your face
And it was all so simple
It was easy to love
No space between us
It was easy to trust
‘Cause You are closer, closer than my skin
And You are in the air I’m breathing in (Yes, You are)
And here’s where the dead things come back to living
I feel my heart beating again
Feels so good to know You are my friend
Songs falling into this category usually exhibit: 1) texts that speak of Christ (or the Father or the Holy Spirit or a saint) in intimate, romantic terms; with very little effort these texts could be converted to songs about one’s date, fiancée, or spouse (e.g., “Jean, I come, I confess…. And without you I fall apart…. I need you, O, I need you. Every hour I need you.”); 2) music that falls into identifiable pop genres that in the mass media signal “authentic” (i.e., non-ironic) romantic sentimentality (more indie-rock/singer-songwriter than heavy metal or hip hop).
Those songs are sung at Mass too. Contemporary Christian pop music doesn’t belong at Mass nor at adoration. On the radio, perhaps, but it’s spiritually and doctrinally suspect.
Interesting selective quote from Lord, I Need You. You left out, among other things,:
” Where sin runs deep, Your grace is more
Where grace is found is where You are
And where You are, Lord, I am free
Holiness is Christ in me.”
Matt Maher didn’t write that about anyone’s boyfriend or girlfriend. It seems you may be reading/hearing too much romance into songs like that.
Matt Maher and the Saints agree: We really do need God every hour. And, apart from Him Who holds us in existence, we really would fall apart. (Col. 1:17) That’s simply good theology.
(Of course, a song that has doctrinal error should not be in any Catholic context. But, that should be based on the lyrics, not your suspicion.)
This is the parish Matt Maher came from, correct? I am an Anglican, formerly Baptist, and on my way into the Catholic church shortly. I am also a music leader in the Anglican church. Matt’s music was one of the few contemporary musicians I will sing for my parish in the liturgy. His lyrics are far more rich and theologically sound than many of the artists that are writing contemporary “worship” music.
And to be clear, I was drawn to the Anglican church, and now toward Rome, because I long for rooted, historical, and beautiful liturgy. I would sing only Gregorian chant if I was trained enough to do it well. But, I do not disdain lesser forms of beauty, as long as they are true and good.
Despite all of Bishop Olmsted’s hard work and leadership, I think the state of liturgy and music in the Diocese of Phoenix is generally poor. There is too much influence by OCP in parishes here. The Protestant “worship leader” band model has taken over. That’s what OCP is promoting.
The Catholic Church has a rich patrimony, of many centuries, of Catholic Sacred Music– all with theologically-correct words, as well as music that is holy, reverent and religious in character. All children should be taught simple Catholic hymns and simple Gregorian Chants, appropriate for the day or Feast Day. We have many beautiful Marian hymns, suitable for May devotions. And there are beautiful Catholic hymns for all of our Feast Days– last Sunday we had Pentecost, tomorrow we have the Feast of the Blessed Trinity, next Sunday is Corpus Christi, etc. Catholic Sacred Music is reverent, holy, and suitable for Mass, Adoration and Benediction, and religious devotions — with theologically-correct words– perfect for liturgical use. Contemporary musical styles are highly secular, even extremely profane, degenerate and trashy in character– and cannot truly be adapted for religious use. Such music is entirely unsuitable. Many people in the “modern” era lack proper religious and moral training, and education in reverence, respect for God, prayerfulness, and how to lead a holy life as a Christian or Catholic. They are not sensitive to higher forms of religious expression suitable for church. A true Christian or Catholic should be taught to avoid all degenerate, low-class, profane, ugly, violent, filthy, trashy, pseudo-“artistic” forms of all types, in secular society. Such degenerate things destroy character, produce profoundly stressful emotional, physical and mental disorders, and are terrible for the mind, and intelligence. They lower people to the filthy, violent, ugly, horrific gutters. Christ calls people
away from ugliness, disorder, violence, evil and sin, and to a much higher place, very holy and beautiful– reflecting Heaven, while on earth, especially when at church. Rock “music” is highly profane, ignorant, unmusical, violent, loud, filthy, extremely destructive, degenerate, and ultimately Satanic in character. The world badly needs a purge of all of it! As for contemporary religious “pop” songs– they are not religious in character, they are extremely secular– similar to “lounge” music at a bar. The few religious “pop” songs that are composed well, are suitable to be sung around a camp fire. Not suitable for church. The words often have theological errors too, and reflect the 1960s narcissistic “me” and “psycho-babble” feelings— not reverence and worship for Almighty God. Unsuitable for religious, liturgical use in church. I know I may sound a bit harsh to many, in today’s era, because I am a trained Catholic classical musician. But why on earth can’t we all sing simple, authentic Catholic hymns, in our Catholic churches– “O Sanctissima,” “Immaculate Mary,” “Hail, Holy Queen,” “Bring Flowers of the Rarest– Queen of the May,” “Salve Regina,” (etc.) a cappella, with no organ and no choir— nothing fancy— in a very simple little Catholic church, for May devotions? Why is that so hard? Now– what shall we sing for Corpus Christi, next week, in the most simple little Catholic church? You should already know, and your kids should know and love good Catholic hymns, and simple Gregorian Chants, too! You can sing silly “Kumbaya” around the house, or at summer camp, around the camp fire. That is where it belongs.
You do not need anything fancy, even if the organ broke down, you can still sing beautiful Catholic hymns and Gregorian Chants, for Mass, Adoration and Benediction, and religious devotions, in church. It is a simple choice. Catholics should know most of them by heart.
I found your comments to be extremely edifying. I like listening to Hail Mary, Gentle Woman … teach us Wisdom, teach us Love.
St. Thomas Aquinas wrote five beautiful, beloved Eucharistic hymns, all set to beautiful Gregorian Chant melodies. They are all a part of our rich Catholic heritage. They are all included in our Novus Ordo Masses and Divine Office, and religious devotions, in both Latin and English: “Pange Lingua,” “Lauda Sion,” “Sacris Solemniis,” “Verbum Supernum,” and “Adoro Te Devote.” The Sequence, “Lauda Sion” (“Praise the Savior, O Sion”) was written specifically for the Feast of Corpus Christi– you will see it in your missalette, in church. “Lauda Sion” was written by St.
Thomas Aquinas around the year 1564, at the request of Pope Urban IV, for his newly-established Mass for the Feast of Corpus Christi. This new Feast was suggested by Aquinas to the Pope, to specifically praise and adore the Real Presence of Christ in the Holy Eucharist. Hopefully, all of Aquinas’ beautiful, beloved Eucharistic hymns will be an important part of our National Eucharistic Pilgrimage, currently taking place.
Here are two lovely YouTube videos of two of the beautiful Eucharistic hymns of St. Thomas Aquinas, which people of today may not be familiar with. The first is the original, beautiful Gregorian Chant, “Sacris Solemniis.” Most people will recognize one of the verses that begins with “Panis Angelicus,” as this verse has often been set to music by composers. https://youtu.be/ggA0FRp8q74?si=mujbWgdfBnFjUfPF
The second is a beautiful choral setting of “Verbum supernum prodiens” by Flemish Renaissance composer, Adrian Willaert. You will recognize the last two verses, beginning with “O Salutaris Hostia,” often set to music alone, for Adoration, or for the Corpus Christi Mass and Procession. The words to “Verbum supernum prodiens” describe the Institution of the Holy Eucharist by Christ at the Last Supper.This hymn is found in the Divine Office of Lauds, for the Feast of Corpus Christi. https://youtu.be/PLmwo6GQeck?si=sq_QHDRaID1mTb28
I listened to both YouTube presentations. They were beautiful. I loved them and would love to hear them at Mass from time to time. Because I loved them, I know they would turn young people away from Mass and the church. It is the music of the 1500s. It is not today’s music. Christ is of today, He is here, He is with us. We don’t listen to this kind of music anymore.
Just saying, many mature, intelligent, sensitive young Catholics really love our authentic Catholic heritage of over 2000 years. Is Christ “outdated?” No. To follow Jesus Christ is very, very serious, and requires great maturity, and good Catholic religious and moral training. You must grow up, leave the ignorant, sinful world behind, leave the immature, babyish, socialistic “Death Culture” peer group behind, stand on your own two feet, study the Scriptures, learn the Church’s teachings and live them well, and lead a totally new and different life, a holy and prayerful life, in Christ. It is very serious and very mature. Not everyone will be ready to truly follow Chrust, as His true religion is very serious, mature, and very difficult. Kids have been severely misled in the degenerate, ignorant, sinful modern world, and post-Conciliar era. and many sadly have no religious nor moral training at all. Many confuse following Christ with being a degenerate, Death Culture, rock “music” groupie, full of babyish drugs, seeking ignorant, cheap, emotional “highs” like a drug, in babyish, fake religious experiences. Our 2000+ years of Christianity, thousands of years of Biblical history, Catholic theology, religious literature, and beautiful art and music, created by great geniuses– is a tremendous gift of God, very serious. Not “garbage” for ignorant juvenile imbeciles of today’s era, to “throw away.”
Amen, my brother!
When a young person decides to give their life to Christ, as a serious practicing Catholic, that means leaving behind your old life and old friends, and old interests, pursuits, and old identity— and receiving a new identity, as a son or daughter of Jesus Christ. That is our true identity– we are truly children of God. But the dark and sinful world tragically does not understand that. As a new, practicing Catholic, you will live very differently. You will live, act, think, speak, and do things in a new way, a better way– provided for you, by our beloved Christ, according to His holy teachings. You will need to find a good priest, and good, practicing Catholic friends, to help you learn all about Christ and His teachings, and all about our holy Catholic Faith, to practice our Faith well, day-by-day. A follower of Christ lives in the world– but he or she is not worldly, not of the world, and no longer identifies themselves in that manner, as they formerly lived. They have crossed over into a new world, beautiful, holy and fulfilling, in Christ, Our Lord and Savior. They learn to live as St. Paul did, when he exclaimed, “I have been crucified with Christ; yet I live, no longer I, but Christ lives in me.” (etc.) (Galations 2:20)
Having spent time in a Trappist monastery, I do incline to Gregorian Chant and Latin hymns. My favorite Marian hymn is Jacques Arcadelt’s Ave Maria, sung a capella in 4-part harmony, and I love Salve Festa Dies for Easter, Pange Lingua for adoration. All this to say I play contemporary OCP stuff each weekend and feel just fine doing so. True, there are some offerings in the OCP hymnal I can’t stand, either the words or the music, or both, but I would not condemn the whole lot just because of the few I subjectively consign to outer darkness. And even in those songs which hold little appeal to me, I can see the author of the song has an earnest love of Christ which inspired the song. Would I like to see more Chant at the parish level? I suppose so, but if Grace builds on nature, then working off the musical sensibilities of modern man in hymn writing does not seem like such a bad idea. And if by Providence the hymn turns out to be beautiful, so much the better. As an aside, Schutte’s Christ Circle Round Us is a combination of chant with modern music, and to me is the most beautiful modern composition in the OCP hymnal.
Bless you. You might take a look at the “Adoremus Hymnal”– you can get it through Ignatius Press. I bet you would love it– and your church, too. We will all love singing the beloved “Pange Lingua” hymn for Corpus Christi. Love the Arcadelt “Ave Maria,” too — I bet your church absolutely loves to hear your choir sing that. Here is a choir singing it on YouTube– anyone who hasn’t heard it, will just fall in love with it. https://youtu.be/us4mCpNMzc0?si=TTRfAMb5V6eJUe3N
I took the time to study this parish and well it is a total Novus Ordo mess Life Teen silliness, if this is your preference than feel free to attend, however I suggest attending Mater Misericordiae Church run by the F.S.S.P. and fully a TLM parish.
Mater Misericordiae is an outstanding FSSP Catholic parish church — with a good Catholic school, too!