Name of Church St. Mary’s in the Mountains
Address 111 South E Street, Virginia City NV 89440
Phone number (775) 847-9099
Website www.stmarysvc.org, although the website is currently down. Visit the parish on Facebook, www.facebook.com/stmarysvc
Mass times Saturday vigil, 4 p.m. Sunday, 11:30 a.m.
Confessions Saturdays, 3 p.m.
Names of priests Father Philip George, administrator.
Special activities The church has a museum in the basement, staffed on Sundays by a docent volunteer. Ask for a tour of the church; see its many artifacts. There is also a gift shop with religious items.
Music Saturday Mass features an organ; Sunday a small choir.
Fellow parishioners Virginia City has fewer than 1,000 residents today. During the winter, about a third of those attending Mass are tourists, and in the summer about half.
Parking Ample parking around the church.
Cry room No.
Additional observations St. Mary’s in the Mountains is a historic parish of the Diocese of Reno, Nevada, and is a short drive from Lake Tahoe. It was founded in 1862 to serve a once-bustling silver mining community in the area (on top of the Comstock Lode, a rich deposit of silver ore in the eastern slope of Mount Davidson), but as the silver deposits petered out in the 20th century it has become a tourist town with St. Mary’s a prominent feature.
The fictitious Ponderosa Ranch of the 60s television show Bonanza was located near Virginia City; among its most famous residents was writer Samuel Clemens/Mark Twain, who worked as a reporter for the local newspaper. The original church burned down in a fire, and the current church was rebuilt in 1876. It is built in the gothic style. The interior has magnificent art and woodwork, with historic items such as an 1870 baptismal font and old vestments. The church has a beautiful traditional altar and stained glass windows, furnishings imported from France and pews made from California redwoods.
What is the point? Nice historic church, but no sound of the Church’s own language? No prayer as the Church has always prayed (before 50 years ago). Only the sound of the priest celebrating himself — his exercise in vanity. Does he invite you all to the “meal” and do you hold hands during the Our Father? Surely Mark Twain would have thought of something clever to say for an institution that hates itself. Perhaps the President and his bishop pals can airlift lots of Latin American tots to Virginia City so they can enjoy the splendor of the largely empty church and the priest obviously not acting at all fulfilled. Good luck — maybe they could build a casino in the basement.
St. Christopher, I share your angst. I was fortunate to visit the church (weekday) and appreciate its beauty. The Novus Ordo defiles its heritage.
I’m really sorry but the Novus Ordo Mass does NOT (caps for emphasis only ) “defile” it’s heritage. I’m a convert to the Catholic faith and have only known the Novus Ordo Mass. When it’s celebrated with dignity “holiness” will be there, and dignity as well. Please don’t be ignorant and inmature as to “project” onto the celebration of Holy Mass ( it’s a valid Mass whenever the priest is validly ordained) just because you’re not “comfortable” with this huge change in tradition. The LatinMass might be more “beautiful” or “valid” in your eyes, but the Novus Ordo, even with it’s mistakes, or celebrated as meant to ( am thinking of when I learned this from reading something on SpiritDaily.com which showed/said that at Christendom College they celebrated the Novus Ordo Mass “as Vatican II meant it to be” basically. I believe the Mass is celebrated facing East, and forget the rest of the details. Gospel and readings are in English I think. No matter what your disagreements are with how mankind “defiled” the Mass, always remember that the Mass is the Mass so long as a validly ordained priest is celebrating it. Thanks be to God almighty that I had a Institute of Christ the King priest tell me this over the phone, when I commented how insecure and dumbfounded I was at reading online the cutting comments of Catholics who seem to think that the world turned upside down once the Mass started to be celebrated facing the people.
I told him, what happened to man’s free will then? Anyways, God bless and hope that you’ll grown in charity.
Tanya, I am glad that you find the N.O. Mass spiritually fulfilling, and no one should say that a N.O. Mass celebrated by a priest who does so with the intention of what the Church intends is anything but valid. But I am also hopeful that your study from Christendom College (CC) of the Mass “as V2 meant it to be” will guide you.
But facts move us closer and closer to the truth, although jarring to what many of us were told at one time, and they should not be seen as merely “cutting”.
Mons. Klaus Gamber, a V2 peritus/expert, an eyewitness at the Council, said that n. 25 in Sacro Concilium (“revising the liturgical books”) referred to the Latin Mass of 1965, the MIssal of which had ALREADY had been developed and printed as the direct intent of the Council (cf. his book, “The Reform of the Liturgy”). Gamber says the Council Fathers never conceived of a “New Order” of the Mass announced in 1968 by the Bugnini committee—otherwise, why would they have had printed tens of thousands of Missale Romanum, only to have these texts dumped in 3 years? Just some facts for you.
If you like the N.O. Mass, that is fine: but it exists because of the TLM, which is the Mass of the Church of all Ages, and from which it draws all its meaning. Just know something else is out there.
And the motto of CC, “To restore all things in Christ,” “Instaurare omnia in Christo,” (also S. Pius X’s motto) cant be at odds with John 8:32. I am sure of that.
Steve Phoenix: I disagree with you in your conclusions, but I applaud you on your use of history and logic to convince others to your side. I wish there were more dialogue like this on CCD!
St. Christopher, your post is blasphemous.
BLASPHEMY
Speaking against God in a contemptuous, scornful, or abusive manner. Included under blasphemy are offenses committed by thought, word, or action. Serious contemptuous ridicule of the saints, sacred objects, or of persons consecrated to God is also blasphemous because God is indirectly attacked. Blasphemy is a grave violation of charity toward God. Its gravity may be judged by the capital punishment on the Old Testament, severe penalties of the Church, and in many cases also of the State for blasphemous speech or conduct. In order for a person to sin gravely in this manner, he must use blasphemous expressions and realize the contemptuous meaning of what he says or does.
C’mon, St. Christopher and Barbara, your comments are way off base and I’m not sure they’re blasphemous, but they sure are uncharitable. And Barbara, your comment that the Novus Ordo Mass “defiles” the church: are you kidding? I’ve been to many an Novus Ordo Mass and, in the main, they’re very holy, in my estimation, no liturgical dancing, no clownish masses, etc., you’re stuck back in the ‘seventies when a fair amount of that went on within the Novus Ordo, but it’s greatly subsided today. And the Church I now attend, St. Rose of Lima in Simi Valley, Calif., has Exposition of the Blessed Sacrament 24-6, Monday thru Saturday, and very well-attended. And extremely reverent. Does your putative Tridentine Mass you so obviously attend, does it have the equivalent observance, i.e., 24-6 public adoration of the Blessed Sacrament? I’d love to know. BTW, St Rose has confession six days a week. Does your Tridentine Church have that?
Wow, that’s great. In my diocese they’re shutting down parishes left and right. (Philadelphia) And none of the parishes have confession every day that I know of. There are two perpetual adoration chapels in my area, but one of them just closed and another is in limbo since the parish is being turned into a “worship center” because of the mergers. Hopefully there is light at the end of the tunnel, but lately there seems to be a lot of bad news. God bless you and I’m glad you have a good parish.
I hope that tunnel is not in Gaza, Bob. Some days we wonder.
My TLM parish has confessions before, during and after every Mass, 7 days a week. But don’t dodge the general issue regarding the NO by questioning whether particular TLM parishes have sufficient supporting activities. Stay on topic. Further, this issue is not about anybody’s opinion, on this board or elsewhere. Statements that NO Masses you’ve attended are “very holy, in my estimation,” blow your cover. None of us are the judge of what is holy regarding the NO. Innumerable treatments have been written about how and why the NO came about. The conclusion is inescapable – the NO does not represent the faith in its fullness. The most basic example – It makes no sense in the context of the traditional faith for the priest to face the congregation, and that’s just the start. Whether or not someone contends the NO is holy, the NO is deficient compared to the Mass of the ages in terms of its representation of the Sacrifice of the Cross. The NO authors explicitly stated they wanted to get away from that Sacrifice and to focus on instead on a community meal style presentation. Hmmm, just like protestants who run scared from a crucifix. The body Catholic never asked for this, it was just done to us. Get used to it, and get over it, because facts are facts.
This church was built for The Mass of All Times, sadly it does not have one. YET!
“nancy”: Your concern and pain is appreciated. But words of criticism, of sarcasm have an historic, and central purpose; they are not evidence of blasphemy. Instead, look at the continuous scandal that many, many bishops and clergy visit on especially people that actually practice the Faith. They prance, and giggle, and profane their way through simply awful multiple versions of the Novus Ordo; they “wreckovate” Traditional church after Traditional church; they crush the Mass of All Time (with the complete connivance of the Vatican) and are completely disobedient to their own Popes, like St. John XXIII (Veterum Sapientia) and Pope Benedict XVI (Summorum Pontificum). Homosexual sexualists continue to influence Catholic practice and belief at the highest order, and no sexual ethical teaching is faithfully followed by the people. This is the true heresy, the true evil in the Church. We need faithful Catholics to stand-up, withhold their donations, and scream out against the destruction of what is going on. And, pray for poor, misguided Pope Francis, who seems so lost that he is more and more becoming a pawn of leftist economic rogues, who want to destroy true economic order that benefits mankind, in favor of Latin American-style socialism that benefit no one, except whatever thug has taken over the present governments there. No one cares much about salvation anymore.
St. Christopher, I am truly sorry if you had a bad experience at a Catholic Mass.
I have never seen a bishop or a priest prance or giggle. There are 4 versions of the Eucharistic prayer but not multiple versions of the Mass. The rest of your post I am totally unfamiliar with. I have attended thousands of Masses and what you say just is not true. You seem to have a lot of issues, some of which seem political. We all see things through the lens of our choice. They say that the Father looks at the world through the Wounds of our Savior. May He bring you peace and gratitude for His blessings and salvation.
Nancy,
I think you are sincerely trying to be an obedient and good Catholic. That is very admirable. However, I must say that it is not wrong to criticize the many abhorrent and heretical practices in many of the churches today. I am not a member of Pius X, and I don’t even attend a Latin Mass, except on a few occasion every year. But I am continually disheartened by many of the things I see and hear. Jokes at Mass, immodest dress, strumming guitars, pianos, pipe organs that don’t work. Jokes about the Eagles, jokes about the Phillies, etc. No mention of abortion, gay marriage, politicians who are Catholic and yet support abortion and continue to receive Communion. Even without many of the novelties that we had to suffer through in the earlier years of the Council, the ommissions are just as noteworthy. Most of the priests that I know are good men. But many of them are afraid to speak up. They don’t want to offend. I think a return to a more traditional liturgy would be a good thing instead of constantly trying to dumb things down for the people. And little children are very capable of sitting through a reverent, traditional liturgy. I’ve been to two ‘children’s masses’ within the last year, and they were pretty despressing. Similar to the ones we had when I was growing up in the 70’s/early 80’s. Clapping, trendy music, anything to get the kids ‘excited’.
In defense of St Christopher, Nancy, yes I have seen priests “prance”, giggle, and yes, do much worse, I am afraid. On New Year’s Eve at the Youth Mass at notorious St Timothy’s in Mesa,AZ, some years ago, the then-monsignor came out in a diaper (a new liturgical robe) — I kid you not, it was documented — all in an effort to be hip and relevant. [By the way, did I mention that it wasnt the traditional Latin Mass he was celebrating. Oh.]
The many “ad libitum” instructions in the General Instruction (revised now at least 4 times, but it still has ad libitum parts ) to the N.O. Mass permit all this — in the mind of some of the revolutionaries saying the liturgy, that is. So, I am sorry that you are shocked, but St Christopher is not being political but ice-cold factual.
Nancy please view ‘The Barney Blessing’ – YouTube
There was no serious discipline for this sacrilegious Mass. The only sanction was the bishop sent a neighboring pastor to pay a visit in order to give the appearance that something was being done. If you view the entire video you can also see the costumed devil who was allowed to distribute Holy Communion. The priest was even video recorded jokingly saying “Only at Corpus Christi, does the devil give out Holy Communion..”
BTW, The fact that nothing was done is In keeping with Father Dariusz’s Major Article report about the cliques of mutual protection.
“Along the road, members of the homo-clique can achieve such positions and influence that they come to believe they have extraordinary powers and will go unpunished forever.[14] Their life often becomes a diabolic caricature of priesthood, just like homosexual relationships are a caricature of marriage.” Father Dariusz Oko
The video was sent to the Vatican and viewed by a prelate.
Yesm, Catherine, I remember being horrified by this when it happened many years ago. I understand he is no longer at that parish. So you are saying that he is gay?
Nancy, Yes….This may have happened many years ago but this priest is a STILL a very influential pastor at another parish in our diocese. Un-cathechized and misguided Catholics love this pastor because he too mocks *the rules* of the Church and lets the people think that anything goes,,,,as long as you are all having fun. Do you think that because that Mass happened a long time ago that damage is still not taking place?
And yes, people have notified the bishop and people went all the way to Rome to show that video. Another very reason why he has NOT been removed is because he is able to get generous donations from Catholics who are never challenged to follow “all” Church teaching. Nancy it is a small world and Catholics know one another and they share experiences. A dear friend became a Catholic in one of this pastor’s parish RCIA programs. This is before I knew this friend. Since when are shared scandalous and disgusting hot tub stories a part of proper catechesis? BTW, The prelate in Rome who viewed that tape said that our area was a huge can of worms and that Catholics needed to educate themselves because of the disobedience that is rampant. Stephen Brady of RCF said that his investigation of this diocese and neighboring diocesans showed a nest of homosexuals who disagreed with Church teaching. Many are the same pastors who were here during that long time ago investigation. Some are publicly listed as donating money to get Obama elected.
That is shocking. My husband wants to move to Aliso Viejo. I think I will check out the churches before we commit. Know any safe ones?
Nancy asks, “Know any safe ones?” Nancy, You first posted, “St. Christopher, I am truly sorry if you had a bad experience at a Catholic Mass. I have NEVER seen a bishop or a priest prance or giggle. I have attended thousands of Masses and what you say just is not true.”
THEN you posted, “Yesm, Catherine, I remember being horrified by this when it happened many years ago.”
Nancy, Had you totally forgotten about that sacrilegious Mass when you initially responded to St. Christopher? The reason I am asking is that the Monsignor who was sent to give the appearance of a correction at Corpus Christi, used to inquire about safe parishes where Catholics were being taught certain traditions. He would also ask them what parish taught them that teaching. A few years ago I spoke with a man who was an attorney who was a brand new convert. He was so happy to have become a Catholic. He then attended Mass as a Catholic for only the second time and when he knelt down for Holy Communion he was immediately berated in front of everyone just for kneeling down by this monsignor who angrily asked him, “What parish do you attend and WHO taught you to do this?” The new convert told me that he was incredibly devastated by this humiliating event. He did not understand why he was being treated so terribly and in front of many people at Mass. Thankfully the Church Militant spoke out and Rome said that this should not happen but I still hear Catholics share their terrible experiences of having some Extraordinary Eucharistic minister telling a Catholic just as they are about to receive Jesus on the tongue, “NO, not on the tongue, PUT OUT YOUR HANDS ” The true story about the convert was some time ago but this pastor was already rewarded and promoted to a Monsignor and he is currently STILL a pastor.
continued…….
continued for Nancy at July 30, 2014 at 9:59pm
Once again, Thankfully the Church Militant spoke out and Rome said that this should not happen but I still hear Catholics share their terrible experiences of having some Extraordinary Eucharistic minister telling a Catholic just as they are about to receive Jesus on the tongue, “NO, not on the tongue, PUT OUT YOUR HANDS ” The true story about the convert was some time ago but this pastor was already rewarded and promoted to a Monsignor and he is currently STILL a pastor.
Another friend told me that this particular Monsignor telephoned her house and pretended to be a parent inquiring about the Confirmations that were taking place in Mexico. My friend said that it was almost unbelievable that this Monsignor did not realize that his name was clearly registering on her telephone while he pretended to be a parent in order to find out who was helping Catholics flee to Mexico for the sacraments. The Servant of God Father John Hardon SJ helped many to go to Mexico. He knew that many of the programs were very bad. Even good priests were sending their very own relatives to Mexico to avoid the rampant heterodoxy that is prevalent in so many programs. Pray for the FSSP to also be invited into the Diocese of Orange County, California.
Catherine, I only heard about the devil giving communion. It was on the internet as a light news type of thing. And yes, I was only thinking of my own experiences and did not remember that until you sent me to the video. I will pray for the FSSP to be invited and to thrive in OC and every diocese. I know they train diocesan priests in the TLM.
I am actually shocked about people going to Mexico for sacramental programs.
christopher, remove the ST. before your name because it is an insult and Blaphmeus, you are no where near a saint and shouldn’t even pretend
I have attended the ordinary form of the Mass in many states over the last fifty years. I have yet to attend one where it was not pious, in conformance with the Missal, celebrated by a good priest and Catholic in every way. Let’s keep in mind that this is the same Mass celebrated by the Pope’s inside and outside of St. Peter’s in Rome. The Popes say it in Italian and we say it in English and fifty other languages, but it is still the Mass. Those who go around bad mouthing the central worship of our faith have their heads screwed on crooked. It took the church a few years to standardize the rite, but since then everyone has been saying the black and doing the red. The hate has to stop.
“Bob One” and “mark Mitchell”: Are you both regular Mass goers? It seems dubious that any Catholic could travel around the USA and not see the enormous strangeness that passes for “devote” mass these days. In the State of Virginia, for example, the Diocese of Richmond is entirely different in the manner of the conduct of the N.O. than its sister diocese, the Diocese of Arlington. Many churches lack kneelers and they will not be replaced. Hand-holding is pretty demanded; the readings are often given from a spot near the side or rear of the Church, away from the altar; only Protestant music is played and is often simply dreadful; communion is given out with bread cubes; priests usually fail to preach on much of anything except “pastoral” themes, and many other differences. And, even in the Diocese of Arlington, the bishop has forbidden altar rails, even in new churches, has shifted around Traditional priests to a few parishes, among other things. In a Franciscan parish, St. Joseph’s in Herndon, VA, the friars thunder against anyone “caught” genuflecting before receiving the Host, as it is not in conformity with everyone else and is evidence of a bad “holier than thou” attitude. There are many, many examples from CA churches, as well. The point is — open your eyes. The Church has gone through a true revolution and the current mass form and what is taught is not really what the Church has been about for, oh, say, close to 2000 years. A penitent caught unawares will find a Catholic Mass much different at, say, St. Bernard’s in Eureka, CA, and at Our Lady of Hope, in Potomac Falls, VA. Both say the Novus Ordo Mass exclusively, the latter beautifully, but this difference should not be the case.
While I am glad that many Catholics do not have exposure to this endemic inconsistency in practice, I am saddened to have to confirm that what you say, St. Christopher, is true in my experience. Folks can react any way they’d like to the seemingly shocking, blasphemy of reporting what one experiences, but that doesn’t take away from the reality that this inconsistency exists. And it shouldn’t.
Too bad the friars seem more intent on how one parishioner might perceive themselves when compared to another parishioner instead of highlighting the reality that we all should be concerned with our attitudes and dispositions in relation to Almighty God.
I wonder if they would have chastened St. Bernadette for kneeling at Lourdes. After all, it could be interpreted as nothing more than an ostentatious display of how much holier she believed herself to be. And to say she interacted with the Blessed Virgin, how proud and singular! She should have kept the entire matter to herself so as not to offend those others who were present in the Grotto!
Ann Malley, how much experience can you have? You quit practicing the Faith for 27 years, you didn’t even get your children baptized. You posted a year of so ago that you returned 2 years ago and it seems you were hardly there before you started attending traditionalist, SSPX or FSSP Masses(according to your own reports.)
So please explain to me why your experience is supposed to be more believable that the experience of those of us who have attend thousands of Masses in the Catholic Church?
And you have never answered this question, aside from one horror-filled, shock-filled incidence where a priest told you that you could receive communion in the hand, (which isn’t an error) what experience did you have in the Catholic Church?
You can always kneel to take communion, there are people who genuflect (which is their own invention- that has never been done in the Catholic Church). You are supposed to make a simple bow (bow of the head) but some people make a profound bow (bow from the waist.) The Lord prefers obedience to the Church than for one to make their own display of devotion. But I am sure most of them mean well and do not know it is wrong. If you want to show devotion to the Blessed Sacrament, join those who make a visit daily or holy hour weekly. Also, if you are a person who kneels or genuflects, please be especially cautious of those behind you. Some of us who might trip and fall over you cannot get back up or can be injured and hurt permanently due to age or fragility.
Anonymous writes, “Also, if you are a person who kneels or genuflects, please be especially cautious of those behind you. Some of us who might trip and fall over you cannot get back up or can be injured and hurt permanently due to age or fragility.”
Actually your entire post sounds like a fragility of faith!
“Show me your hands. Do they have scars from giving? Show me your feet. Are they wounded in service? Show me your heart. Have you left a place for divine love?”
― Fulton J. Sheen
No, it is more than obvious that anonymous has not left a place for divine love. Anonymous is far too busy using his or her hands to type insults to those who humbly kneel before the King of Kings!
What insult?
Humble kneel before the King of Kings and stand up for Him when people are insulting Him and His Church.
Anonymous, your data mining with regard to my background would never pass muster as it is flawed, but more to the point, skewed by your own personal ax of desired superiority. Superiority in suffering and holiness.
If you ever read what I write for understanding you would know that it is the Church Herself that calls out the errors of the present day. Your penchant to brag is also telling.
As for your assertion, “The Lord prefers obedience to the Church than for one to make their own display of devotion.” Try telling that to St. Theresa of Avila, St. John of the Cross or St. Francis of Assisi. Your notion of obedience is skewed, Sir/Ma’am, or whatever you are. The above Saints were persecuted because their desire for holiness underlined the lack thereof in the Church communities to which they belonged.
Please do not equate devotion to the Lord with showing off. This is not a first grade class in need of dumbing down, where one who already knows how to read must stumble on purpose so as to not upset the other students who have trouble discerning vowels from consonants. We should edify each other in seeking to honor the Lord God and reverence Him in the Blessed Sacrament. Not worry ourselves over how our neighbor perceives us.
That is why your reference to kneeling is so absurd, for we’re not talking about walking into mass wearing hair shirts while proclaiming a diet of locusts. If, however, you are finding sanctification on the road on which Our Lord has placed you, God be praised. But do no limit the Holy Ghost to such an extent as to dismiss that which is inherently Catholic.
Why is saying that you can always kneel to take communion absurd? The Vatican has said it.
I did not data mine and I do not believe that my recollection of what you wrote is flawed. But if you want to correct it-go ahead.
I will overlook all the mean things that you said about me but please stop attacking the Catholic Church. Perhaps I have not defended her well. No one else except YFC, Abeca Christian, and now Mrs. A even tries to defend the Church from your ceaseless calumny. I do not think I am superior to anyone-I am the least. I just am floored by your hostility and agression towards Holy Mother Church. I understand that you believe like the Protestants in an invisible Church that extends beyond the boundaries of the Catholic Church and is made up of all those who believe a certain set of beliefs that you think the Catholic Church taught and a set of practices that was performed at some specific time and place (never universally) in the history of the Catholic Church. In doing so, you deny the True Church.
All those you have mentioned do not have a firm grasp on what defending Holy Mother Church means, Anonymous. And that is absurd as it is easily learned if one has a mind and heart to do the job.
God bless you and thanks for your prayers. I’ll keep praying for you, too. As for what Protestants believe, you may want to leave that one alone and focus on what Catholics believe and what they have always believed and what Vatican II actually says. That would be the best defense.
And what do you mean by Holy Mother Church?
Ah, the sweet sound of the “Spirit of Vatican II”: accusations of “ceaseless calumnies,” wounded pride, soon the name-calling (“heretics and schismatics!”—it has a nice ring to it), and all the while, a furiously misogynistic fixation on cursing Ann Malley back into the official Nervous Ordeal, er, Novus Ordo, that is.
How bout this: the topic that is, St. Mary’s in the Mountains: in 1862, this Church was designed for a liturgy and rite codified at Trent that was already nearly 1900 years old: yes, the Verona (550 AD) and Gelasian (ca 630 AD) Sacramentaries attest to the basic form of the Trad Latin Mass, although in these earliest ancient manuscripts, the Canon of the Mass was never written in them—according to Card. Alfons Stickler, to prevent sacrilegious abuse by their unauthorized use; the ancient Roman Canon had to be memorized by the priest or bishop: only the chants and prayers were written in the sacramentaries.)
Ann Malley knows this, but Trent never created a “New Order” of the Mass: it organized and codified the Sacred Mysteries, the Mass that goes back to the time of the Upper Room. That is what this majestic church attests to.
They didn’t speak Latin in the upper room.
The reform of the Liturgy after Vatican II was an attempt to restore the original way Mass was said by the Apostles as in the writings of the Church Fathers.
“An attempt to restore the original way the Mass was said..” Ah, yes, a hypothetical assertion without factual basis in tradition history or Scripture.
Do you get the distinct impression that the assorted Anonymous responses are a recording. Press 1 for heresy. Press 2 for break with Tradition. Press 3 for ascribing saintly motives to those who wreak havoc, but now need to hide.
Not one genuinely expressed thought. And yet the pre-conciliar Church was Medieval. Right.
No I get the impression that you try hard to make people believe that you are a faithful Catholic when you don;t even attend a Catholic Church. How messed up is that?
You want to make it look like those who oppose you oppose the Catholic Faith when it is a lie.
It is you who try to manipulate people by talking about a Faith or a Truth that you don’t even accept.
Who are you to declare what is and isn’t Catholic Truth? You know better than the Popes? You can’t even get the definition of Catholic terms right. Then when someone tries to help you, you paint them as a modernist (and you don’t even know what Modernism is.)
You have been caught in so many errors-but you have become emboldened by 2 or 3 others who support you (at least 2 of which attend the Church that you refuse to attend.)
Sorry to get personal but you are really endangering your soul (if it is not already dead because of the mortal sin of schism.)
Remember the Great Schism? The Orthodox Church split from the Catholic Church because the Catholic Church changed the Creed. You are making the same error. In not submitting to the teaching of the Catholic Church, you are not preserving the True Faith anymore than the Orthodox Church did.
This is the last time I will try to help you. If this website continues to post your errors, they are co-responsible for any souls that you lead astray.
Anonymous, the Oath Against Modernism was put into place by Pope Saint Pius X back in 1910 for good reason. Modernism, the idea that dogma develops and changes over time, was a threat to the inviolable teachings of Holy Mother Church. (The FSSP still takes this oath – because their mission, I believe, is to preach that which the Church has always taught in the way the Church has always held it.) This oath used to be that all clergy, pastors, confessors, preachers, religious superiors, and professors in philosophical-theological seminaries, had to swear to it.
Why, Anonymous, if there was no desire to change the meaning of what the Church has always taught would Paul VI have done away with said oath in ’67? In other words, the new mode of thought is that dogma develops and changes. That is why we are told, contrary to the clear teachings of the past, that Protestants are in communion with the Church. The phenomenon of just how isn’t understood (as if we cannot define Church anymore.) That’s a paraphrase of Christian Brotherhood by Pope Benedict XVI with regard to the teaching that Outside the Church there is No Salvation.
Nobody is saying they are more Catholic than the Pope. And I am not saying I am any authority. My position is not based on those who embolden me as you put it. Although I am thankful for those who are fair and charitable and consistent. It is the Catholic Faith itself that leads me to believe the way I do and what the Church has always held.
To Anonymous cont:
“…Therefore, I entirely reject the heretical’ misrepresentation that dogmas evolve and change from one meaning to another different from the one which the Church held previously.” Pope Pius X September 1, 1910.
You may not consider yourself a modernist and you may not be. The same CANNOT be said with assurance about the same group of necessary individuals that used to have to swear an oath against this heresy. And yes, modernism is heresy against the One True Faith it is just no longer useful to say so as folks want to shift the meanings of what the Church has always taught.
If you adhere to the teachings of the Catholic Church as She has always taught them, you need to own the above instead of seeking to defend something you refuse to investigate. I know parents who were scandalized by their own abused sons because they couldn’t believe the reality of what had occurred. How could that be true?! How dare you say that?! That is also not my doing, but something Catholics need to own as it happened under our watch.
So be wise as a serpent, but innocent as a dove, Anonymous. Wise means watchful. Not because everyone is nice and kind and well meaning, but because many are not. And if all the evil were outside the Church, there would be no confusion, no crisis. It is the evil that is allowed to pass inside that keeps wounding Our Mother and many, many souls. That is also why I heartily thank CCD for reporting on the fruits of this error so that it can be rooted out to the benefit of ALL – you, too.
I have realized it is not that you do not know the definition of Catholic terms, it is that you are redefining them to suit your own purpose. You redefine Catholic Church, Tradition, Faith and Truth until it becomes something that supports your life choices just the same as YFC redefines marriage to support his.
Where did you learn that the definition of modernism is teaching that dogmas change over time?
What dogmas of the Church have changed?
Where did you hear that Protestants are in communion with the Church?
Have you read The Meaning of Christian Brotherhood by Joseph Ratzinger?
Do you understand what authority the book has in the Church?
I have not read it so I cannot talk about what is in it.
Thank you for your courteous answer,
Have you read the oath against modernism?
I take back my realization that you do know the definition of Catholic terms and I think you may just be under some wrong influences.
Your redefinitions may be fed to you by others.
I would like to have had a discussion but i have to go away, so I will just quote from the Oath so that you can see::
“I firmly embrace and accept each and every definition that has been set forth and declared by the unerring teaching authority of the Church, especially those principal truths which are directly opposed to the errors of this day…
Finally, I declare that I am completely opposed to the error of the modernists who hold that there is nothing divine in sacred tradition; or what is far worse, say that there is, but in a pantheistic sense, with the result that there would remain nothing but this plain simple fact—one to be put on a par with the ordinary facts of history—the fact, namely, that a group of men by their own labor, skill, and talent have continued through subsequent ages a school begun by Christ and his apostles. I firmly hold, then, and shall hold to my dying breath the belief of the Fathers in the charism of truth, which certainly is, was, and always will be in the succession of the episcopacy from the apostles…”
Cut to meet CCD reqs.. You can find the oath on EWTN website.
Anonymous, just because you cannot admit that the Oath Against Modernism was no longer required after ’67, specifically to accommodate the progressive reinterpretation of Church doctrine that Pope St. Pius X instituted to avoid this error is not my issue.
If you’re worried about teachings being mutated to support life choices like YFC’s then I suggest you begin to pay attention to what the real enemy is. Not who.
Ann Malley, I am disturbed with this. Where did you find the information the the Oath Against Modernism was no longer required specifically to accommodate progressive reinterpretation of Church doctrine? What are you saying about the Pope? That he wanted error to come into the Church?
I know that the Catechism of the Catholic Church often quotes or references Pius X’s catechism. Are you sure about your information?
What I am saying, Nancy, is that Pope Paul VI, for whatever reason, withdrew the requirement for clergy etc to take the Oath Against Modernism. This is no castigation against Pope Paul VI, but rather pointing out how those errors that Pope Saint Piux X sought to combat by way of the Oath are given free vent by way of clergy not having to take the Oath.
So no, I cannot say I know the intention of the pulling of the Oath, that would be to read another’s soul, which nobody can do. I am just pointing out that the FSSP takes this oath. And there has to be a reason for that, much like there must have been a reason for the oath to have been retracted during VII.
The Oath Against Modernism can be found on the Vatican website and the specifics regarding its withdrawal was gleaned off Wiki. Not the most lauded source, but that is where it is from. Again, this is not to say that the Pope himself wanted error to be introduced into the Church, but in light of the confusion we’re coming up against with regard to myriad abuses, it is at the very least a solid clue as to how that happened.
I cannot find any document that abolishes it. Do you know what it is?
Ann Malley, I think you are playing with fire. I’m sticking with the Church and the Pope.
The Oath against Modernism was replaced by this Profession of Faith
https://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19670717_formula-professio-fidei_en.html#top
Anonymous, I am not putting myself in opposition with the Pope in as much as he is the Vicar of Christ entrusted to pass down and protect the Full Deposit of the Faith. Not sure where you got any idea to the contrary, save perhaps from a twisted interpretation that many would like to cast at the feet of Traditional Catholics, but thank you for your concern.
That said, nobody is advocating that you not remain with the Pope and the Church. Whereas I may not be able to put my finger on the former, I am certain where you got this false notion, as the purposeful misrepresentation and Trad bashing is rampant on CCD whenever certain realities are examined. The intimation that even a scholarly examine is somehow associated with leading the faithful out of the Church is nothing but willful slander and pure ignorance.
So sad that an honest assessment of our own Catholic patrimony poses such a threat to some people. I wonder if they are as indignant about someone with a mind to pursue genealogy.
Thank you for the link to that new proclamation of Faith, Anonymous. I still find it interesting that it is not as thorough in its declaration of “as the Church has always taught.”
I am also intrigued by the FSSP’s adherence to the Oath Against Modernism.
But thank you again for the link!
Ann Malley, watch out for this tactic:
They tell you what they want you to think.
Then they offer proof which does not prove it but they tell you it proves it. Then they tell you again what you are supposed to think.
They may insult those who would not believe it or glorify or praise as superior those who do. They may use footnotes which you always need to look up. They may name sources which they claim prove this which you always need to verify. Then you need to find out how reliable the source is. Sometimes it is the name of a priest or bishop or cardinal. That doesn’t mean it is legit.
You used as a source-in another post- a book by Cardinal Ratzinger that was written 30 years before he became Pope Benedict XVI. Someone could naively believe that since he became Pope eventually, everything in that book was infallible. You know that is not true. The only things in that book that are infallible are Catholic Scripture and Catholic Tradition and infallible teachings of the Magisterium and ex-cathedra pronouncements of the Pope. That does not mean everything else is wrong. It could be right. Even when he was Pope, he wrote books and said they were his own thinking and were not from the Office of the Pope; they were not Church Teaching. But I have seen them used on the internet as if they were. Things are not as easy in this day of TMI and one does need to be careful with what one believes.
You are quite correct in stating that folks attempt to play off as binding things that are not. But, Anonymous, I want to point out that knowing the mind-set of the man who is Pope (even before he is Pope) is much the same as the importance of knowing the mind of a priest (before he was ordained.) So the wisdom that you write can also be said with reference to those inside the Church who want to pass down that which is not binding or the Truth, but rather their interpretation.
So what you said is VERY true. One must be wise and watchful.
Thank you for your post!
Good afternoon,
The next time you’re in Richmond, stop in at St. Benedicts!
The diocese of Richmond does have churches without kneelers that will not be replaced because of the expense but all new Churches built will have them. It is not necessary to hold hands during the Our Father.
https://www2.richmonddiocese.org/worship/faqs.htm
The Catholic Church that I attend in the diocese of Richmond has kneelers and they are used. There is no variance between the Mass there and the Missal. It is the only Church I have attended which has most people bow during the appropriate place in the Creed. I have never received bread cubes at Communion (although at a Church in another diocese I saw this done on Holy Thursday). We do not hold hands during the Our Father except at the daily Masses attended by the school children. The music is not Protestant; it is from the OCP songbook so there are songs which were Protestant like Amazing Grace, We Gather Together etc in it, but I have not been present if these have been sung. I would say that the preaching always is a reflection on the Gospel and other readings and how well we are incorporating the Will of God into our lives and what God expects from his followers.
I have not visited the parishes you mentioned so I cannot speak about them.
Like many churches this is just a museum relic of the past, why not give it to the F.S.S.P. or The Institute of Christ the King and the pews would be full year round with the sound of Gregorian chant and Latin with The Mass of All Ages as Pope Benedict the VXI had wished for all churches.
Oh Bob One please now, of the Novus Ordo dinner services you have been to, not one had the kiss of peace, hand holding, hugging, orans posture by the people, dancing girls in leotards and waving streamers, guitars, drums, piano, altar girls, lay female and male lectors, Protestant music, communion in the hand, polyester vestments, felt banners, shorts, sandles, beach attire, giant puppets, rock music, mariachi music, I believe you have! If so these are not pious heck they are not even Roman Catholic. On the other hand if you had Latin, incense, Gregorian chant, kneeling, silence, mantillas for women and girls, stunning Gothic or Roman chasubles, altar boys, communion rail, central crucifix, six candle sticks, tabernacle smack in the middle, Mozart, Palastrina and Hayden, well then you had the REAL DEAL!!!!!!! That is the Roman Catholic Mass of All Times.
You call the Lord’s Sacrifice on Calvary a dinner service?
Man, people have no fear of God.
Janek, here is your list: On the other hand if you had Latin, incense, Gregorian chant, kneeling, silence, mantillas for women and girls, stunning Gothic or Roman chasubles, altar boys, communion rail, central crucifix, six candle sticks, tabernacle smack in the middle, Mozart, Palastrina and Hayden, well then you had the REAL DEAL!!!!!!! None of these are Catholic, they are simply long standing rituals in churches that choose not to say the Ordinary Form of the Mass. Being Catholic has nothing to do with any of these things. Being Catholic is about developing a close relationship with the Lord and living that relationship in your life. It is about serving your fellow man/woman in a way God would want you to do it. There is a big difference between Tradition and tradition. You list falls in the latter category.
I have attended many a NO Mass where there was incense, Gregorian chant, kneeling in silence, altar boys, etc. Liturgical dance, the couple of times I’ve seen it was before the procession and not part of the Mass. I agree with you that we should focus on the important things – we just have a different definition of them.
Bob One writes, “Being Catholic is about developing a close relationship with the Lord and living that relationship in your life.”
Bob One, There is no hate. Are you sure you are not projecting your own true feelings and thoughts onto the posters who do not hate anyone. Sometimes a guilty conscience accuses others of the very thing that their own conscience is silently harboring. If my statement sounds ridiculous Bob then perhaps you might consider how you sound when you charge others with hating. Also I thought you might enjoy reading the entire article link below.
https://www.hprweb.com/2014/07/the-problem-with-a-personal-relationship-with-jesus/
The Problem with “A Personal Relationship with Jesus”
Taken from Homiletic and Pastoral Review
… a baptized, confirmed Catholic who faithfully partakes of the sacraments of reconciliation and Holy Communion in the manner prescribed by the Church certainly has a “personal relationship” with Jesus, whether or not he or she uses that phrase to describe it.
Thank you, Catherine, for putting out the Truth:
“… a baptized, confirmed Catholic who faithfully partakes of the sacraments of reconciliation and Holy Communion in the manner prescribed by the Church certainly has a “personal relationship” with Jesus, whether or not he or she uses that phrase to describe it.”
The focus on ‘feeling’ everything is such a pretense for constantly changing because feelings are never fixed.
In the manner prescribed by the Church!!!!!!!!!
Adding exclamation marks only displays your anger, Anonymous. And you must be very angry about the focus being deflected off feelings and placed onto facts.
Take a powder.
What a Christian!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Not anger, disgust.
Ann Malley, I apologize for this. take a powder was such a mean and offensive and demeaning thing for you to say, but my reaction while honest was not Christian either.
I do have to say that you really do have me questioning whether the Catholic Church is now or ever was the True Faith. The things I have read have been pretty convincing but if the Church can fall into error then it can’t be what it claims to be. A lot of what the fundamentalists say about the errors in the Church seem plausible too. Oh well, is there even a God? I think there is because He helps me and I think the Catholic Church is the True Church because I know He is in the Blessed Sacrament and the only people who have the Blessed Sacrament are the people who broke away from the Catholic Church and took Him with them. So…the Catholic Church is what is claims to be and I just have to stop reading you doubt-causing posts.
Sorry. The only other people who have the Blessed Sacrement are those who broke away from the Church.
However, upon reflection, lots of people who broke away do not have the Real Presence and they all make the same error which is to say “The Catholic Church was guided by God up to this point and then it became tainted with the errors of men.” So if it was an error in the 1500s and in the 1900s, it probably is an error now.
I’m just going to worship God in the Holy Catholic Church and not pay any attention to those who try to cast doubt on Her.
Ann Malley, you can choose to do otherwise but I think it is an unwise decision. Every choice we make has consequences. Some temporal, some eternal.
Anonymous, I’m sorry for your doubts. But there is no reason to equate learning the truth of our Catholic patrimony with questioning the Truth. Our Lord is there, and absolutely in the Blessed Sacrament, but there are reasons why the times are the way they are with regard to the assorted crisis in the Church.
That said, the deposit of the Faith is not in error, NOT AT ALL. That is why when shenanigans abound – and there are always times of trial when humans are involved – cleaving to Tradition is the way to go. At least that’s what St. Jerome taught. That is what was always taught prior to VII. But make no mistake – Vatican II and the last 50 years is not the summation of the Church. Vatican II is not the sole deposit of the Faith. It was an attempt at a new approach that, in practice, has left some very critical doorways open, doorways that are being exploited by those with no care to do as the Church has always taught. Those doors need to be shut. That’s all. That doesn’t mean what’s inside the house is bad. Far from it!
To Anonymous cont:
I hope this helps you understand a little more why there are folks like me. If our communication has done that much, it is well worth it for there are a lot of other Catholics out there, good and loving Catholics likely in your own parish that would benefit from a mutually edifying solidarity in what the Church has always taught.
Learning the whole Truth about the Catholic Church, though daunting, is one of the BEST means to combat Fundamentalists. It has been for me because there is nothing for them to call me on or catch me out about with regard to what the Church has always taught. It is also one of the best means to know deep down that the Deposit of the Faith is well worth defending! The Devil knows that too or else he wouldn’t be so intent on hiding the Truth from Catholics themselves…. which he does attempt to do by gagging her ministers in whatever way he can.
Thanks for your post and God bless. Keep up the good fight!
Not once in all of my many posts do I utter the word hate, I hate no one, it is a sin to hate. I believe the TLM is far the better Mass and some believe it is the Novus Ordo service that is better, there is nothing wrong with our views on the Holy Mass, they are simply differant points of view. It make neither of us less Catholic. But the Mass of Paul the VI was created by a Freemason named Bugnini and six Protestant ministers, this is a fact. The TLM has been around for over 1000 years, the Novus Ordo man made service just under 50 years.
Equating facts with hate is a great method for keeping facts hidden, Janek. And an even better motivation to keep the validly concerned from even attempting to discover Catholic patrimony.
What happened to, “Be not afraid?” I would think that would apply to our own Catholic shadow. But it would appear not.
Keep up the good posts, Janek!
Uttering the word “hate” is not the same as never uttering hatred. There is a profound difference.
Yes YFC and the LGBT crowd is filled with hatred….
Sorry to many negatives in my post made it unintelligible.
Uttering the word “hate” is not the same as uttering hatred. There is a profound difference.
Yes, YFC, much like there are profound differences and histories to the forms of mass, their inherent symbolism, and the mindset of pre versus post conciliar thinking. Thank you for pointing out that subtle differences can greatly effect meaning.
For if the simple word ‘hate’ can be misconstrued to have such a proufoundly different meaning, one that would compel YFC to clarify on a simple post on CCD, one would think clarifying anything which is even remotely ambiguous in the teachings of Holy Mother Church would be taken to be a gravely serious matter by all. Not just cast at as being mean or nit picky. For if such is mean or nit picky, YFC, what could be said of your words about ‘hate?’
Thanks again for making things clear!
No that is not a fact!
That is schismatic garbage.
Speak to the points of the post, Anonymous. Resorting to calling things schismatic with nothing to back it up is just agitation and you know it.
Why are you so afraid of honest examination? Being Catholic does not equate to being blind, Anonymous. So please behave in a Catholic manner and discuss points without fear.
Ann Malley, the burden of proof is on the accuser. This accusation is found on schismatic websites. They make the accusation and then they show a picture of 6 Protestant ministers with the Pope as “proof”.
How stupid to do have to be to fall for that?
The Vatican repeatedly denied it.
I did discuss the point. You just didn’t like what I said.
You seem to think that schismatic is a bad word or something. It is a description of someone who does not accept the authority of the Pope or who refuses to join in Catholic worship in the Catholic Church. There are some websites where the authors may still be in the Catholic Church but they are repeating something found on sedevacantist or sedeprivationist websites. Some traditionalists are true traditionalists. Some traditonalists are actually modernists-they do not believe that the Church since Vatican II is divinely inspired. They could not take the profession of faith or the oath against modernism. You need to use a little more discernment and not just swallow anything you see on the internet. And self-examination on why you want to believe it might be in order.. You don’t understand your own blindness and fears.
You seem to think we are afraid of examining this. We have done this already. You seem to think that nobody has examined this stuff and found it wanting. You’re not telling me anything I haven’t heard before. I have already been down that road and it is a dead end. It’s nonsense. It just does not check out. They play on fear. They are probably people with anxiety disorders themselves.
Anonymous, to quote you, “… You’re not telling me anything I haven’t heard before.” If you are clear in conscience where you are, then God be praised. But your insistence on misapplying what constitutes schismatic in this instance is beyond misapplied. To paraphrase Pope Benedict XVI…. the situation is a phenomenon not yet defined.
But thank you for the lively debate. And please stop attempting to suppress the proof/fruit and then decry that the burden of proof is on the accuser. That’s just not being fair.
Clear in conscience? Ann Malley, I am where the Father , the Son and the Holy Spirit, the Blessed Mother , the Angels and the Saints and the People of God are. Yes, God be praised.
I do not know what situation you are referring to. My definition of schismatic was from the Church.
The burden of proof is on the accuser-it always is, in every circumstance. That is only fair. You can only prove something that is-not something that isn’t. There are accusations and sometimes human testimony. There are things that we have to believe with a Divine and Catholic Faith and one of them is that there is One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.
I am truly sorry that you have fallen victim to these scurrilous attacks on the Church. Look before you leap. May God continue to guide you.
There is nothing scurrilous in an honest appraisal of what is, Anonymous, in the written record. Quite the opposite. As looking to what is written and holding to that which IS will elicit the greatest defense of Holy Mother Church. That is what She really is, not a degraded and ongoing misinterpretation or reinterpretation.
So your assertion that the burden of proof lies with the accuser would apply to you proving that that which I am conveying to you isn’t true. Because when faced with what is written in Church documents, you seem incapable of accepting them, but continue to insist that my position is due to some faulty interpretation. Well, Anonymous, the point being made is that the facility for faulty interpretation, that is something that is not well written so as to be clearly applied, is precisely where the error lies.
Or would you claim that Pope Benedict in clarifying what ‘church’ means is scurrilous in the acknowledgement of rampant misinterpretation? Because the Pope doesn’t go around clarifying things for no good reason, but rather to fix a problem or misunderstanding.
So you may want to be careful about tossing around the accusation of scurrilous attacks. You know not of what you speak.
Ann Malley, what in the blazes are you talking about?
There is no church document that says the Mass was written by 6 Protestant ministers. There is a Church statement that says it wasn’t.
There is no Church document that says Bugnini was a Freemason. It is calumny.
OK, let me retry this. The subject matter is the accusation that Bugnini was a Freemason and that he and 6 Protestant ministers created the Mass that is currently used in the Catholic Church.
Bugnini was accused of Freemasonry by Catholic authors, never by the Church. There is no proof that he was a Freemason.
The Catholic Church repeatedly denied the accusation that the Protestant observers authored the Mass. Again, there is no proof or even evidence that they did.. As these are false accusations which are designed to harm the reputation of Bugnini and the Catholic Church, they are scurrilous. These accusations are still being repeated on websites of individuals and organization of people who refuse to accept the authority of the Pope (sedevacantists) or those who refuse to join in the worship of the Catholic Church (sedeprivationists.) They may also appear on websites of those who are still in communion with the Church but do not realize the falsity of the claims. Even if you accept gossip about what went on at Vatican II with a human faith, there is still a requirement to believe and obey the Catholic Church and its Creed including that there is One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. This must be believed with a Divine and Catholic Faith.
I can’t prove that what you are conveying to me isn’t true-because I have no clue what you are trying to convey. You seem maybe to have changed the subject without telling us what subject you changed it to.
Since you have no clue and I seemingly lack the capacity to convey anything to you outside what you already accept to know, about the Church, and about my position, perhaps letting things alone would be best, Anonymous. If you are in good conscience and progressing where you are, that is a blessing. So leave well enough alone with regard to that which you do understand – even if that lack of understanding is due to my inability to convey. Practice charity and move on in good Faith.
I hope that’s clear enough. If not, oh well. God bless and be well.
Ann Malley, ok I will accept your desire to end this discussion.
I have studied sedevacantism and it’s arguments; sedeprivationism and it’s arguments; other variations of traditionalism and it’s arguments. They all fall into schism or heresy if taken to their logical conclusions.
Some try to straddle the line. That never works either.
There is no argument that one can present to say that the Novus Ordo Mass or the post-Vatican II church is a man-made corruption of the traditional Mass or the True Church that does not commit a logical error that exposes either ignorance of or a lack of faith in something taught in Scripture of Tradition.
God bless and keep you all.
To those commenting about the Richmond, VA Diocese, there are two parishes, St. Joseph’s and St. Benedict’s, which say the TLM exclusively. Both are staffed by priests of the FSSP. Sorry, “Really?” but liturgical abuses are common under Bishop DiLorenzo, although not to the extent as under Bishop Sullivan. Many people from other dioceses avoid going to mass in the Richmond Dioceses due to its strange liturgy; yes, hand holding, Orans posturing, odd homilies that bear little relation to the Gospel — try any mass, for example, at Sacred Heart Catholic Church in Norfolk, VA. The simple truth is that, except for “mature” Catholics, few if any church-goers even know much about what the true Mass is intended to represent. The present administration has so belittled the worship experience that is often does not seem to be Catholic, at all. No, it does not matter that there is “communion” as many Protestant churches also have communion; and everyone goes anyway, even the half-naked young women who simply have no idea that there immodesty is immensely wrong. But, that is the way that it is after a revolution, after all. And, now we have Pope Francis, who is listening, unfortunately, to all his Latin American and German apostates that want to “clamp down” on those “Traditionalists” who always seem disloyal (to them). Good luck.