Interview on April 10, 2024 with Maeve, who is studying kinesiology, outside the Health and Life Sciences building at San Bernardino Valley College.
Do you consider yourself religious?
Maeve: Yes. Zen Buddhist. There are two aspects of it, the philosophical aspect and then the meditative aspect. I used to be Christian, but I didn’t like the prejudice. I didn’t like the contradictory part of it. I’m not really too fond of the Abrahamic beliefs.
God’s supposed to be your friend. But when I was in Christianity it was: your life purpose is devoted to God. You can have an identity, but it needs to be in the image of God. Essentially, you are codependent on Him. He asks you to be codependent. He asks you to lay down your burdens on Him. So when you want something to be fixed, you lose a little bit of accountability and you put it onto God. I didn’t like how it was prejudiced towards women aand the LGBT. In 1 Timothy it was like, “a woman is below a man and cannot teach” or is not in authority.
And to me it’s like if you have a friend and then you build a relationship with them, you trust them. But then they contradict a lot of what they say. They say they love everyone, they’re accepting of everyone. But then historically they’ve endorsed slavery. From what I’m reading, at least for me interpreting it, I feel like I can’t trust God and I am afraid of God, if He was real. Because it’d be a very authoritative kind of deity where it’s like: you believe in me or you go to hell. It’s an illusion of free will. It’s more of an ultimatum of free will, and I don’t like that. Buddha is not viewed as a God in Zen Buddhism. He is just a philosophical person. No different than Socrates or Aristotle.
What would you say to the argument that whether or not God demands it, we owe God our lives out of justice? Aristotle would say justice is giving people what they are due and if God is due acknowledgement as the Creator, don’t we owe Him everything?
Maeve: Oh, I understand that now. At least how you view it. I’m uncomfortable with it, but you actually feel like you owe your life to him. Because if you believe there’s a creator, why wouldn’t you want to devote your entire life to someone who made everything? I just view it a bit differently. The way someone explained to me in church when I was Christian was, “Oh, everything has a creator. The pencil you’re holding, it’s from a factory. The factory is run by people. The people come from other people. Adam and Eve, who created Adam and Eve? God. There you go, leave me alone. Go read the Bible.” And to me that didn’t feel like enough. I asked other religions, it’s kind of the same thing. Buddhism was different because it was about more accountability and enlightenment and it’s a psychological thing. So I like Buddhism because it’s more based in logic and philosophy, at least Zen Buddhism is. But it’s not like I’m worshiping Buddha or I pray to Buddha when there’s something wrong. When something goes wrong, I have to fix it. I have to take accountability. I don’t pray to someone and then hope things get better.
What is Zen Budhhism’s explanation for the existence of the universe?
Maeve: There’s no explanation.
You’re saying it’s based on logic, but to have no explanation seems illogical, doesn’t it?
Maeve: Oh wait, no, no, no. It’s like not everyone has the answer to everything. It’s a very non-traditional religion. It’s more of a philosophy but a lot of the other things are kind of for your own interpretation. It’s like you’re asking a math teacher a question about English.
So we’ve been talking about Zen Buddhism this whole time, but it’s not really a religion?
Maeve: Well it is a religion, but I don’t really know how to explain it, because I actually was thinking of that too. With Zen, it’s a lot of philosophical thought and meditation. It’s very hard. When I first left Christianity, it was backwards. It’s like, so when do I pray to Buddha? You don’t pray to Buddha. Think of it like Aristotle. Do you pray to Aristotle when you learn his beliefs? No. It’s still considered a religion, but it’s very non-traditional. It’s extremely modern. It’s all left to you. It’s a positive community. You can go to these Zendo temples and they’re nice. They have stretching.
Maeve: What made you a Roman Catholic?
I was raised Catholic and then I studied a lot of philosophy: Aristotle, Socrates and St. Thomas Aquinas. Aristotle proves from very basic, foundational principles that there has to be a creator. He proves there’s an unmoved mover. He came to this conclusion and he was pre Christianity.
Maeve: I just want to know why you believe in God.
I think that it’s logical because infinite regression makes no sense.
Maeve: Why Roman Catholic Christianity version and why not Jehovah Witness? Why not Mormon, why not Muslim?
That comes down to a question of authority. Who has the authority to say the Bible means this and not this? That’s the question. So then you can look at Jesus Christ and you say, “Is there historical evidence he lived?” Yes, I believe there is historical evidence that he lived. And then you say, “Okay, He lived. He also said He was the Son of God. Did He prove it?” And I think He proved it through His miracles. I think there’s evidence He rose from the dead.
Maeve: But even if Jesus is real, it doesn’t mean that Roman Catholicism is the right religion.
Okay, so we can ask if the Bible is authoritative. Where does the Bible get its authority? The Bible only has authority because there was some authority lving on earth who put the Bible together. Jesus died and now we have all these Christian churches saying, “Jesus said this,” “Jesus would’ve done this.” It’s not logical for Jesus to have come and then just checked out. It wouldn’t make sense for Him to come and reveal Himself as the Son of God and then leave and leave us to come up with all these different interpretations. It would make sense for Him to leave an authority. And He did. In the Bible it says He left Peter. He renamed him from Simon to Peter, which means “rock.” And he says, “On this rock, I will build my church.” And then He says, “Whatsoever you bind on earth will be bound also in heaven.” Basically: you have God’s authority invested in you. But then it doesn’t make sense for that also to end with Peter, for Him to leave one successor and that’s it. And then there’s the Holy Spirit coming at Pentecost as tongues of fire and they are all speaking and teaching. This is in the book of Acts. And so Peter will have the authority then and the other apostles deferred to him, even though they were all bishops or whatever the term was at the time. At that point, they all had some authority, but he had the most authority. And then we have a historical record of the succession of popes all the way back to Peter and there being the one Pope. And so that would be the authority. The Church would be the authority. And the Church compiled the Bible and said, these books are in, these are the ones inspired by God. And the Church is also there to interpret the Bible.
Maeve: That’s where it gets iffy though. The way you guys explain it is a little bit better than Christianity. When I asked them, they’re like, “This is just faith.” I’ve talked to Jehovah Witnesses, I’ve talked to Mormons, I’ve looked at others, I asked questions. My mindset every day when I was Christian was: I have to be in God’s image or else I go to hell. So I have to worship Him like a dog. I felt like I was nothing unless I purely worship Him. Remember, this is all me. It’s fine if you believe in God, if you’re a good person, you’re paying your taxes, you got a job or whatever, more power to you. But it doesn’t work for me. Zen Buddhism made me more independent as an adult. It made me free from a toxic environment. And that’s why it works for me. Bruce Lee says reject what’s useless and apply what’s useful to you. At least Cartholics make a little bit more sense than Christians, to be honest. You guys sound more strict. I feel like there’d be less hypocrites, a little bit better with the ethics.
If you’re looking for answers about Catholicism or you’re curious about more things, I’d recommend Catholic Answers. They have the actually correct answers rather than just some random blog where they’re making it up. Catholic Answers is actually in line with what the Catholic Church teaches.
Maeve: Can I just walk into Catholic churches? Or do I have to sign up or something?
You can just walk in. You can walk in, you can attend the service. The only thing is there’s the part where people receive Communion at every Catholic Mass. Roman Catholics believe that during the Mass, because of the authority given by Jesus, the bread becomes Jesus’ actual body. So if you’re not Catholic, you’re not supposed to receive it. Part of the name “communion” is the idea of being part of that community of belief. We don’t believe lightning will strike you or anything like that. But there’s scripture in St. Paul warning about people condemning themselves if they don’t receive communion worthily.
Maeve: I get it, respect.
Notice how people who do not want to know God also do not want to know the truth.
Kudos. It’s good to listen to and talk with unbelievers and those of other religions, even when former Catholics (so to speak) usually seem some of the most difficult to have conversation with.
I found this student’s perspective enlightening and challenging to my spirit as well as my faith… her combined academic study and world experience / observations have something to contribute to our understanding of her Faith-Philosophy as well as our own… I wish I could discuss directly with her what she read and processed from Thomas Aquinas. Maybe she exemplifies Karl Rahner’s ANONYMOUS CHRISTIAN from a ‘knowing dimension’ ? (… and I was taught by the Jesuits, but I’m okay now) My first college class was Philosophy 101 at Valley College while I was still at Aquinas High… memories…Dr. Charlie Daschbach…
Maeve teaches us a lot about how effectively Christianity is taught (or caught), and also how Christianity fares in the culture wars. Maeve values independence and accountability (” It’s all left to you”) and Zen apparently allows him (?) to decide for himself what to embrace and what to flee, and therein lies his notions of independence and accountability. Consequently a God who commands worship creates a toxic environment for Maeve, for he loses some of that which he values most. With Deacon Anderson, I am glad to read and study the beliefs that challenge Christianity. How can we reply to the Maeves of this world if we don’t know where they are coming from?
Most of the college students in these interviews do not seem to be college material. No minds, no intellectual training, no educational background. No capability to comprehend a basic understanding of religion and philosophy. No childhood training at home, for a start, to basically understand one’s own religion, and try to understand religions of the world. Nothing to work with. No established structure. Zilch. Waste of time. Do you really want to try to learn about a highly complex, 2500+years-old, ancient Asian religion, like Buddhism? It is just like learning math. Step-by-step, very complex, try to understand it. What are the different Buddhist sects? How do the Buddhists view life, and how do Buddhists apply Buddhist principles to their daily lives? What are their religious services all about? Take a good layman’s basic class, taught by a good teacher. It will all be taught in English, using translations from the original material, in a foreign language. Like the Bible, you may have different translations to examine and work with, and new words to understand. Hopefully, the teacher may invite some authentic, devout Asian Buddhist practitioners, to give some talks to the class. Can you excell in the class? Can you even pass it? How well did you do on your tests, essays, book reports, term papers, etc., for the class? Learn everything, step- by-step. Read, take the tests, ask questions, and really learn. Never just read some silly “pop- culture” book about Buddhism, and think you know something about it.
Perhaps I am too critical of these college interviews. People cannot help their upbringing and backgrounds. I am not used to discussing serious subjects in this manner. Would love to hear from young, rising stars at faithful Catholic universities, the hoped-for leaders of tomorrow. That would be quite inspiring! I once read that when Ven. Abp. Fulton J. Sheen went on a long trip to the Far East, in the 1940s, and preached in many locations, he learned all about their basic religious and philosophical beliefs. The teachings of Confucius form the foundation of those Asian cultures. These teachings are philosophical and cultural, but not exactly religious, and are not considered to be in conflict with Catholic teachings. Asian Catholic converts and clerics from these countries have thus always been allowed by the Church, to keep their Confucian beliefs and customs. This is also told to us every year, when Chinese New Year is celebrated in our Archdiocese. Ven. Abp. Sheen also said that undoubtedly, some Asian teachings also could be fitted in just fine, with our traditional Catholic religion, in the same way that ancient Greek philosophy (Plato, Aristotle, etc ) and culture was fitted into early Christianity. Sheen gave a few examples of Chinese Confucian concepts, and concepts of Taoist yin/yang opposites in Nature, balance, harmony, etc., from Asian cultures. I found that to be interesting. In the 16th and 17th centuries, Jesuit missionaries collaborated with Chinese scholars, and translated works of Aristotle for the Chinese, which delighted Chinese scholars. The Jesuits also wrote a mystical, theological interpretation of the famous “Book of Changes” (I Ching), and translated many works about Chinese history, science, mathematics, astronomy, etc. Jesuit Fr. Matteo Ricci, S.J., was a famous leader in this missionary endeavor. Many of these famous works are kept in the Jesuit Archives in Rome.
How about spending your time learning about Catholicism?
It is important for missionaries to a foreign culture to learn all about the culture and its people, and learn to speak the language. The Jesuits made thousands of Catholic converts in China, Japan and other Asian countries. A Chinese friend and her husband once told me, long ago, that as the Chinese have no bread in their cuisine, it was difficult at first fior them to understand that concept, in the Eucharist at Mass. What is bread? Explain. And what was the wine, used at the Jewish Last Supper, and used in the Catholic Mass? What was the Jewish Passover? Who were the Jewish people, the Romans, and others in the Bible? Etc. I agree, these interviews ought to be conducted with devout young Catholics who are rising stars on faithful Catholic college campuses. That would make more sense.
Just think, if the Jesuits used their smarts in today’s Godless culture, they could no doubt succeed in converting thousands of Americans to the true Catholic faith! And they could reform all of their schools to the True Catholic Faith, too! What a tremendous work for God they could be capable of accomplishing! Western nations like the USA are now the mission fields.
They have to be converted to Jesus Christ first before they can edify anyone else.
Yes. Too many Jesuits today, are not serving Jesus Christ.
There are several Chinese Buddhist monasteries in San Francisco, with a couple of them located in Chinatown, Japantown, and other locations. I have talked to Asians who have gone to classes for laymen at these places, with their families, and have been taught in a Chinese dialect. Classes are probably taught in Japanese, in Japantown. I noticed, online, that there are a few American Buddhist temples in SF, with both Asian and Caucasian teachers and monastics, both men and women. But I am not sure of the quality of their teaching and worship. I read of sexual scandals among some of these people, and sexual scandals in many of the Bay Area yoga centers, too– and worldwide. Sounds scary! Better to attend a reputable class, with a good teacher, with a fine reputation, taught in English. Maybe go along with an Asian friend from a practicing Buddhist family. Then, share with them a little about your own beloved Catholic Faith. They will no doubt enjoy that, too.
I have a sister who travelled with her husband, in the early 1970s, on a long business trip to Singapore and Japan. They stayed in Japan for several months. While her husband was in business meetings, my sister spent time getting to know Japanese language and culture. One of her favorite memories was visiting the famous Buddhist temple at Nara, with the Sacred Deer. The deer wander all through the temple grounds, peacefully. And they have a charming custom they learned, of bowing to humans, for a treat of a rice cracker! You can get them to bow three times, and give them their treats! Bowing is very important to the Japanese. Rice crackers are the only treats allowed for visitors to give the deer. My sister was entranced with the Nara deer! She brought me home some lovely gifts from Singapore and Japan, including some lovely gifts from the Nara temple.
“….. with Maeve, who is studying kinesiology…..”
Back in the Stone(d) Age, what is now called kinesiology, was called Physical Education.
Nice upgrade for ‘ol. P.E.