The May 9 issue of California Catholic Daily linked to an article from the Contra Coast Times on the ordination into a group called the Roman Catholic Woman Priests of a woman named Maureen Mancuso. The second line of the Times story “Now, she’s facing excommunication for what she will do Saturday: become the first woman of her faith ordained a priest in Northern California” contained about as many errors as is possible for a sentence of that length. She is not being ordained, she is not a Catholic, and she does not face excommunication.
As the blog A Shepherd’s Voice reported on January 18, 2012, (“Playing with fire: From Clown Masses to Excommunicated Parishioner”), Mancuso was “ordained a womandeacon” on September 18, 2011. She no longer faces excommunication, because by that act she was already excommunicated. Mancuso is/was a parishioner at Christ the King parish in Pleasant Hill, California. She also served as an RCIA instructor at that parish. At that time she was a member of, and the webmaster for, a group called Women of Magdala which was based out of Christ the King. All four of the women listed as contacts on the Women of Magdala webpage are or were prominent parishioners of Christ the King. One of them, Gwen Watson, was pictured with Christ the King pastor, Father Brian Joyce, at a Call to Action conference. The Women of Magdala were the ongoing hosts of an East Bay Eucharistic Gathering performed by “Roman Catholic Womanpriest” Victoria Rue. Rue is an open homosexual.
Mancuso is not alone. On May 1, the webpage of Sophia in Trinity, a group led by the same Victoria Rue, contained this announcement: “Please join Sophia in Trinity in Celebrating the First Ordination of a Roman Catholic Woman Priest in the Archdiocese of San Francisco. Merlene Olivia Doko, Presiding Bishop, at the ordination to the priesthood of Deacon Maria Eitz Sunday, May 26, 2013, at 3:30 p.m. Ebenezer/herchurch Lutheran, 678 Portola Drive, in San Francisco.”
The name Maria Eitz may be familiar to readers. On July 3, 2012, in the article “Will she be removed?” California Catholic Daily reported that Maria Eitz had been “ordained” a “womandeacon” on June 23, 2012. “Removed’ in the title referred to the fact that at the time of the “ordination,” Eitz was serving as a member of the liturgy committee at San Francisco’s St. John of God Church. Eitz’s “ordination” took place at Sophia in Trinity, run by the selfsame Victoria Rue. Eitz’s “diaconate ordination” should not have come as a surprise: about a year earlier California Catholic Daily had reported a July 2, 2011 entry on the Sophia in Trinity blog: “And then Victoria “outed” Maria Eitz who was announced as a candidate for priesthood in RCWP! There were shouts of joy and sustained applause for Maria!” As late as two months before that (her resignation was announced in the June 20, 2011 minutes) Eitz had been serving as a member of the St. John of God parish council—as well as on the liturgy committee. It strains credulity to believe that none of the other members of the liturgy committee or parish council were aware of her upcoming “ordination,” but, as will be seen, no straining will be required.
By now, some patterns will have emerged. One is the influence, among liberal Catholics in the San Francisco Bay Area, of Victoria Rue. In addition to serving as a conduit for women’s excommunication, Rue has actually been invited to address students in at least one Catholic High School, the Convent of the Sacred Heart in San Francisco. Another is the presence of women on their way to excommunication who at the same time are serving in teaching ministries of the Catholic Church. That is not limited to the Bay Area. At the same September 2011 event where Maureen Mancuso underwent her “diaconate ordination,” she was joined by a woman named Jennifer O’Malley. In 2012 Ms. O’Malley was “ordained priest.” Prior to that, under the notorious Cardinal Roger Mahony, O’Malley had worked as a parish-level coordinator of youth ministry and on the Ministry to Gay and Lesbian Catholics for the Archdiocese of Los Angeles. She received a “Lumen Christi” award from the archdiocese in October of 2011—after she had been excommunicated. Like Rue, O’Malley is an open homosexual.
When Catholics in parish-level teaching ministries excommunicate themselves from the Roman Catholic Church, it’s probably time to ask some questions about their parishes. The previously mentioned Playing with Fire blog post of January 18, 2012 documented the welcome extended by Father Brian Joyce to groups and persons supporting women’s ordination. As for St. John of God, it’s home to the Catholic Women’s Advocacy Group. The church has allowed the group to host events on its property. While the group’s statement of principles never makes an outright demand for women’s ordination, instead proceeding by euphemism (“Women and men are called to equal roles in Church ministry… Support women as they work toward full acceptance in the Catholic Church….Speak out in favor of women’s rights in church and society”) there’s no doubt as to their true position: the mailing address of the organization is the same as that of Maria Eitz.
The open homosexuality of both Victoria Rue and Jennifer O’Malley indicates some overlap between homosexuality as an identity and the desire for women’s ordination.
Communion is the monthly newsletter of a group called Catholics for Equality– an advocacy group for same-sex “marriage.” The May 2013 issue also announced the Eitz ordination: “Roman Catholic Womenpriests and Sophia in Trinity invite you to attend the ordination of Deacon Maria Eitz to the priesthood , etc. etc…” The same issue of Communion contained an article by Deacon Brian Bromberger. Until recently Bromberger served as Deacon at St. John of God. His time there overlapped with that of Maria Eitz—as of June 28, 2012, both Eitz and Bromberger were listed as members of the St. John of God liturgy committee. The same issue contained a blurb for the upcoming Dignity USA convention, which will take place from July 4-7. Dignity is no longer allowed to meet on the property of the archdiocese of San Francisco. Their SF chapter meets two blocks from St. John of God at the Seventh Avenue Presbyterian Church. A September 29, 2005, an article in the homosexualist Bay Area Reporter on Dignity contained a statement from Maurice Healy, then communications director for the Archdiocese of San Francisco, explaining why the group is not allowed to meet on Archdiocesan property: “The position on homosexual acts is pretty well founded…It won’t change until Dignity drops their rationale, which is contrary to Catholic teaching.” The same article listed a man named Paul Riofski as a leader of DignitySF. That was 7 ½ years ago. Today, Riofski serves as co-chair of the organization. Riofski also currently sits on the St. John of God liturgy committee, as he did during Eitz’s tenure. He is also listed as the music director at St. John of God.
Yet, the SSPX is considered non canonical, ha ha ha
SSPX chose that. They do not like some of what the Church teaches since Vatican II.
Not about a non-sequitor “ha, ha, ha!”
Exactly, where the Bishops and why not publicly excommunicate.
MAYBE THIS IS A DUMB QUESTION, BUT I REALLY DON’T KNOW:
“She is not being ordained, she is not a Catholic, and she does not face excommunication.”
The article goes on to explain the woman was ALREADY excommunicated when she pretended to get ordained as a deacon.
Here’s my question: when a person is excommunicated, does that mean they are no longer a Catholic?
Or are they a Catholic in trouble, no longer permitted to receive the Sacraments?
They are still Catholic. They may not receive the Sacraments (except confession if they repent-I think the excommunication needs to be lifted by a bishop or someone he has given that power to). They are still bound to obey the Church. They must attend Mass but cannot receive Holy Communion. They cannot be a reader or acolyte. If a priest, they cannot say Mass or hold ecclesiastical office. Excommunication is a medicinal penalty. It is hoped that it will bring the sinner to repentance and a return to full communion with the Church.
Michael, an excommunicated person in still Catholic, even if she is so mad that she will not call herself that anymore. The Church, our Mother, still loves her, but it’s tough love. An excommunicated person can go to Holy Mass but cannot receive the Body and Blood. In most excommunications, the person cannot simply go to confession to have the excommunication lifted, because confession itself is one of the seven Sacraments, and an excommunicated person has chosen to walk away from the Sacraments. But, no matter how severe the situation is, there is always a way back. All the person has to do is admit the pride that lead her away. All wandering sheep receive special attention from the Shepherd, after all.
In Roman Catholic canon law, excommunication is a censure and thus a “medicinal penalty” intended to invite the person to change behavior or attitude, repent, and return to full communion. It is not an “expiatory penalty” designed to make satisfaction for the wrong done, much less a “vindictive penalty” designed solely to punish.
Excommunication can be either latae sententiae (automatic, incurred at the moment of committing the offense for which canon law imposes that penalty) or ferendae sententiae (incurred only when imposed by a legitimate superior or declared as the sentence of an ecclesiastical court).
Excommunicated Catholics may not receive the Sacraments or participate in Church functions, but are still required to attend Mass under pain of Mortal Sin.
Canon ” 1399 In addition to the cases established here or in other laws, the external violation of a divine or canonical law can be punished by a just penalty only when the special gravity of the violation demands punishment and there is an urgent need to prevent or repair scandals.”
Apostolic Constitution “SACRAE DISCIPLINAE LEGES” of the Supreme Pontiff Pope John Paul II (1983) – “Finally, the canonical laws by their very nature must be observed.”
The Code of Canon Law can be found on the Vatican web site in entirety (including Canon 915).
Canon ” 915 Those who have been excommunicated or interdicted after the imposition or declaration of the penalty and others obstinately persevering in manifest grave sin are not to be admitted to holy communion.
“a medicinal penalty”?!? Ale is like that, in that a little bit helps but a whole lot don’t help so much at all.
As far as I can tell, the Church does not excommunicate anyone. People excommunicate themselves by doing stuff that is a direct assult on Christ and his Church.
it can be imposed. see Mikes post above
It takes a bishop to make an excommunication official. An excommunication is like the reverse of a Sacrament sort of.
Skai,
No, it takes a bishop to make an excommunication public, but a “Latae Sententiae” excommunication is official in the eyes of God even though it may not be publicly known. All publicly pro-abortion, pro-sodomite public figures are “Latae Sententiae” excommunicated. That is what makes it so wrong for Church officials to allow them to continue their public sacrileges!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
Thank you.
Michael,
The answer to your question is the later. It would be better for them if they could actually have the “Indelible Mark” removed, but they can’t, and they will be judged accordingly!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
This kind of article is nothing but nonsense – Publishing this only gives unneeded publicity to these individuals and makes matters worse – Any faithful Catholic would not pay any attention to this kind of evil and disregard any indication of it –
I very much agree. What’s the point other than the carp about thing and give her free publicity? Just stop it already.
I bet this thread gets more than 50 posts, mostly from angry people. Forget about it already.
Sorry – I couldn’t disagree more. The last thing a faithful Catholic does is forget about rot in the Church. Publicity needs to be given to the rot. The more specific knowledge about these matters a person has, the more he or she can participate in specific actions to correct the situations, prevent further spread of the errors, and to warn the less wary of the dangers which exist. The publicity here will generate response and repudiation. It was the absence of publicity which gave space for the breeding of this infestation in the first place.
Wrong! Ignore them already.
People demand that O’Malley be “publicly excommunicated.” Why? To martyr her in the eyes of her followers? Just ignore her until she is ready to repent.
Now, wait just a minute here. First there is “ignore” and then again there is “ignore”. Ignore can be to pretend it ain’t there … a bad idea. But, ignore can also have another meaning, that which is used by Rodda, ie acknowledge and keep an i on while not paying no nevermind to it or her whatever the case may be.
You don’t get a letter in the mail saying you are excommunicated…if she has done anything to excommunicate herself…then she has already incurred ipso facto excommunication…
In the meantime she will confuse those who are poorly catechized.
Her scandals would help send souls to Hell, especially the young – as she gains more converts by those who do not know the truth.
Sin grows exponentially when left unchecked.
Rambler,
Right On!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
Rambler I completely agree. My biggest fear is young couples going to these parishes thinking that it is Catholic and for them to get the wrong message. If they don’t hear from higher above that this group is not truly Catholic then we may have a bigger issue growing.
No, this type of article helps each of us to do our required jobs – informing the Diocese Bishop and asking him to take appropriate action.
When you knowingly let sin and/or scandal stand by doing nothing, you are a participant.
CCC: ” 1868 Sin is a personal act. Moreover, we have a responsibility for the sins committed by others when we cooperate in them:
– by participating directly and voluntarily in them;
– by ordering, advising, praising, or approving them;
– by not disclosing or not hindering them when we have an obligation to do so;
– by protecting evil-doers.
Rodda, think of it this way. A person needs to make sure he or she is clean, is healthy, and that there is no “rot” anywhere that would compromise these goals. If there is and you ignore it, then you’ll suffer and die sooner than later, and not on the Cross either, but on the platform of sloth.
Jesus replied to demonic questions by hypocritical pharisees. Hey, if your faith is not strong enough, then stay in your cave until … wait, without sunlight your faith won’t grow. Guess there is nowhere for the sensitive to hide.
I agree. Sort of reminds me of the way Fr. Z sends significant Internet traffic to the National Catholic Reporter on an almost daily basis–they love it!
As the slogan goes in Hollywood, “there’s no such thing as bad publicity.” Groups like this want to keep the names and issues in front of the general public. Why assist them?
P.S. Just noticed all the ads on the left-hand margin as I’m typing this..
Want to Become a Pastor? Earn Your Religious Degree at Home. Request Free Program Info Today.
Want to Be a Minister? Earn a Degree in Christian Ministry At Home! Take the First Step Today.
Ministry Degrees Online: Prepare to become a Ministry Leader with Distance Learning Classes!
IS THIS A ROMAN CATHOLIC SITE, OFFERING SUCH “ORDINATIONS” THROUGH THE INTERNET?
That is not what is on the left hand margin on my computer. Mine are all Catholic ads.
Anonymous, that’s because you do not venture out of your cloistered closet in your cave. Great Commission ought to motivate you to mingle a bit more with the raging and morally savaged heathens. How else are they to be converted?
Good catch. For a Catholic web site to publish confusing advertising is wrong, unless it is very CLEAR that this advertisement is for Protestants only.
The Sacrament of HOLY ORDERS is explained clearly in the CCC pages 383 through 398.
For more info – Men interested in the Catholic Priesthood should contact a specific “Order” (such as Franciscan, Dominican, Jesuit, FSSP – Priestly Fraternity of Saint Peter , etc.), or the Diocese Bishop to serve in a Diocese.
Michael, what ads? The ads are targeted to the particular computer by the ad companies via google or whatever, doncha know. I get ads for online courses in how to rule the universe.
No, Michael has a valid point, and we need to ask CCC to explain these ads. I just checked and they ARE THERE!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
CCC is the ‘Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition” world-wide, and has nothing to do with advertisements on web site.
Mr. Fisher did you mean some other abbreviation?
Maybe someday the church will return to actually doing what Christ has asked it to do…but for now…those who know right and who are faithful will have to suffer. And if we seek Christ, maybe if our imperfect self reaches a level to understand that with our sufferings, we may find real joy there as we wait for our King….Christ!
Suffering is to pray with love and take action….only then will we truly suffer(even in little ways)…suffering is not just in the mind but also in the persecutions we receive for remaining faithful, for staying focused in the way of our Lord, for seeking, for asking and detaching oneself…for persevering with fortitude, seeking every opportunity to gain’s God’s graces and ask God to help us distinguish those salvation elements etc etc
Suffering will cease and real joy will be palatable. But how many of us can truly say we have reached close to that understanding? Not even I can say satisfactory to that…..what a failure to life is that? Maybe we should just take it one day at a time and trust in God to lead us for we surely can not lean unto our own understanding of things….surely we are to fail without our Lord. We may win the world but that will have it’s end someday but what truly matters the most is our salvation, Christ Jesus! His graces we pray with love!
Mr. Fisher meant this website the CCD.
Look at this clipped haired “beauty” people this is what I was surround by most of young adult/teen life……ugh
Canisius, not all women look like Playboy models. But women who don’t are just as much women as the models.
Well the CC thought police just refuse to print my responses to the heretic PA. So lets give another shot, PA you admittedly gay, you have no idea how to relate to a women as a normal man would. I believe in the gender norms, this creature in the photo looks like angry bull dyke who is upset because she didn’t get the Y chromosome. And no PA she is not as much a women as the “models” are they (the models) I am positive like men, rest assure they thing in picture is complete man hater and a poor excuse for a female… Long Live the Gender norms
I don’t have the heart to tell him.
Actually, Canisius, I don’t have a problem relating to women. I actually like women. I have been surrounded by women all my life, my mom at home, grandmothers and aunts, I was taught by nuns in school, and I have worked with many, many wonderful women over the years. But I see women as human beings made in the image and likeness of God, not as sex objects. What in the world is an angry bull dyke? I have never heard that expression in all my life. You don’t know that the woman in the picture hates men, you don’t know if she is a poor excuse for a female. The woman has short hair and glasses and is unattractive to you but you really don’t know her as a person, you don’t know what goodness lies in her heart.
PA I could have bet the farm on your response and would have won. I knew you give a dissertation on all your “wonderful” experiences with women and of course on purely platonic level. What I said went over your gay head, which proved my point. If you don’t know what an angry bull dyke is that is not my problem, it only proves how naive you are. This creature in the photo is nothing more than a man hating excuse of a female… Then again talking to you PA is like arguing with the wall, I live in real world you live a sheltered gay little world. You wouldn’t survive 1 full day in my world…
Canisius, just because that woman has short hair and glasses and you find her ugly doesn’t mean that she hates men. You can’t tell that from a picture. I am not openly gay and I live in a small town where I don’t know many gay people so I don’t really live in a “gay little world” whatever that is.
Good response, Mark, and thank you.
Canisius, did you know that a slight majority of the top rung, most highly paid models actually like women much better than men? It is a field that appeals to lesbians.
Also, did you know that beautiful young women with long hair, great bodies, and high maintenance fingernails, wardrobes, plastic surgeons, etc., etc., in fact have been known to grow old, get wrinkled, get fat, become ill, lose the love of men who think like you, get divorced, go broke, turn gray, get lonely, wear out their fancy wardrobes, get depressed, , get toenail fungus, need glasses, lose their memories or their minds, get halitosis, lose their teeth, die and rot in the grave?
Some excellent classical stories have been written about men who continue to fantasize for years about gorgeous young women, look them up decades later, and can’t recognize them when they are reintroduced. People change physically, but hopefully grow greater over time in terms of wisdom, character, caring and appreciation of life and of others, thus actually becoming more appealing in terms of personalities and characters. Not all, but most, men and women alike.
My point is, along the way, these women, once beautiful and thus highly valued by people like you, might actually learn to value themselves based on who they are interiorly and authentically once they learn to give up valuing themselves based on how much their physical appearance appeals to men, employers, and other women.
That doesn’t mean that just because people like you devalue the less beautiful ones, your fellow human beings are worthy of your disdain.
Certainly God will judge them by who they are and how they behaved toward others, and most especially toward Him. Your dismissal of old, unattractive women betrays a superficiality that does not recognize the humanity of women who are something other than young and beautiful. All of us matter, men and women, young and old, and not just those few whom you find attractive.
Mark’s comments are actually far more admirable and even far more worthy of a good Catholic man than are yours, and now you see that although I am repelled by homosexuality, I have a love and admiration for Mark based on his character.
Each of us is flawed, nobody is perfect, but each of us who dares to call ourselves truly Catholic need to think and act as much as possible as would Our Lord, and not like Satan. Objectifying women is evil, and even leads to Satanic thoughts and behaviors. Even non-Christian men who can see past their basically biological lustful reactions or visual repugnance are of more value to women than men who bleat out judgments of women based solely on appearance.
I think you should refrain also from personal attacks against Mark or other homosexuals just for being homosexual. When people do not give in to their lust who are afflicted with same sex attraction, when they honor their wedding vows, stay with their wives, and raise their children like a good Dad, they are in fact living Catholic lives. I’m not saying he’s perfect, but compare his comments on this topic with your own, and his thinking and writing are admirable, whereas yours are not.
I don’t think Mark deserves the mean treatment you give him, even when he is proving himself charmingly naïve, innocent, or not hip to street talk or vulgar ways. Being street smart isn’t always a virtue, and being naïve is never a personal failure. No reason to denigrate.
You can argue against homosexual activity or any other kind of lack of chastity, and rightly so, but you cannot attack a person directly and denigrate them just for who they are. What they say, think, or do, yes, perhaps; and indeed sometimes you are almost bound to do so as a Catholic; but who they are? That’s just plain ignorant, tacky, and reprehensible.
Pre-marital and extra-marital sexual activity deserves just as much admonition, but because it seems more natural to those of us who are heterosexual, we tend to “forgive” that kind of lack of chastity. I think that kind of sin needs to be denounced and discouraged just as forcefully, but because it isn’t repugnant to us, we tend to let it go unchallenged. Look at the results of so doing – even worse than the degradation associated with homosexuals, because innocent human beings are conceived, and very often murderously aborted, as a result of this kind of sinning.
The practice of chastity, including within marriage (which means honoring your marriage vows, in that case), needs to be promoted more, and individuals who are sinners of all stripes need to be helped to see the error (and danger!) of their ways and encouraged to discover the value of living chaste lives. Old-fashioned as it may sound, and actually be, chastity is a self-honoring state of being and is pleasing to God and good for society. Too bad it’s unfashionable at present.
Thank you for your kind comments, Maryanne.
@ML “I think you should refrain also from personal attacks against Mark or other homosexuals just for being homosexual. ” I do not attack PA because he is gay I attack him because he is a heretic and supports teachings that are contrary to that of Holy Mother Church and yet at the same time claims to be Faithful. I am not without sin, believe I have broken some major commandments the big difference between me and PA is that I admit to them and go to confession nearly weekly. As for other homosexuals the fewer I know the better of I am, there are maybe 2 in my entire life that I have respect.
False again, PA. It is man and woman who together are made in the image and likeness of God … well, before the Fall, that is. Ever since then, mankind comes out somewhat dinged, and not the image and likeness of God. Your sodomic religion always gets the fundamental points disordered, PA … which stems from the moral disorder of your same sex attraction.
Heresy.
Maryanne I really do not care what you think of me or my comments. This creature in the photo reminds a lot of my abuser and is worthy of my hate and personal attacks. As for Mark PA I find him to be a naive and weak man who promotes the destruction of the Church from within by his never ending calls for tolerance and diversity, he claims to have taught catechism classes I wonder how many children are now lost by his twisting of Catholic teachings. However you as a school marm wagging your finger at me while PA lies and deceives about who he is and what he believes. I am sorry Maryanne I reject everything you wrote about me, to me you are adjust another angry feminist who can’t stand the thought of a straight white man speaking his mind about a ghoulish looking clipped haired lesbian. But then again I grew up around I rejected, hated fought and destroyed it then and will do the same now
Cansius, the woman in the photo is not worthy of your hatred and personal attacks because in your mind she has some physical resemblance to a woman who abused you. Why should she be hated for something that someone else has done? You don’t know that she has ever abused anyone. Just because you were abused by two women doesn’t mean that women in general are deserving of your hated because of this. Some men abuse women but would it be right for a woman to hate you or me because we are men? Of course not. Maryanne understands this well. You need to realize that this hate that you have for women in general is harmful to you. Do you have any daughters? I would hope that you would think that your daughters should be treated with respect and be allowed to be all that they can be. I admit that as a young person I was very naive and also innocent. But I am glad that I was innocent. I lead a sheltered life, in a way I sheltered myself and stayed away from occasions of sin. A lot of the guys I knew as a teen and young adult used drugs but I didn’t really have peer pressure in this regard and I am glad that people respected me. I don’t think that calls for tolerance and diversity are harmful to the Church.
” I don’t think that calls for tolerance and diversity are harmful to the Church.” that’s because you never know what you are talking about, I really don’t care about your life growing up PA. “Why should she be hated for something that someone else has done? answer– I believe in theory of collective guilt that’s why..I believe all lesbians are man hating monsters OK… is that clear enough for you.. Please PA and ML quit trying to school like some teacher I have NOTHING TO LEARN from either of you. BTW PA I do not hate women, but I do hate the one’s that deserve it.. and the hate empowers me it does harm me, I gives me the power over those who abused me and I say to them you are not human but a bug to stepped on and crushed.. so bet it
Canisius, just because a person does not share your attitudes towards women and gays does not make them a heretic.
” just because a person does not share your attitudes towards women and gays does not make them a heretic.” No is does not, but your constant spewing of beliefs that are contrary to Church teach (ie gay marriage) does make you a heretic.
Canisius, the reason I share my life growing up is because it is relevant to our differences. We had different upbringings and learned different things growing up. Our environments influenced our views. We see things differently in part because of this and also partly because we have different natures which we were born with.
Yes , PA and you seemed to be born with incapability of knowing what the Truth is i.e. gay marriage is evil and contrary to the Churches teaching. I find somewhat amusing that someone like me who has admittedly lived a life of violence and lust is able to see this, while you PA and your high handed piety cannot.
I think what Canisius is saying here is that there are some men and some women who do all they can to DELIBERATELY make themselves unattractive to the opposite sex for one reason or another, and this woman appears to be one of them. I too am upset when I see men and women who do their darnest to make themselves as unattractive or repulsive to the opposite sex as possible. I think nuns who cover clipped hair with a veil look far more womanly and motherly than those who clip their hair like a man and leave it uncovered. The same goes for a man who trys to look like a woman. At least that is how I interpreted his post, and, quite frankly, I agree.
Anne T, I have to say that I don’t find the woman in the picture to be unattractive or repulsive. I find it sad that many women have to have plastic surgery, breast augmentations, etc. in order to be more in line with our culture’s stereotypes of beauty. Some women put too much emphasis on trying to make themselves attractive to members of the opposite sex. It is sad that for some jobs being well built and attractive will get a woman a job faster than having a degree and good grades. Most nuns that I know have short hair as it is difficult to wear a veil with long hair. I remember reading that many nuns cut their hair very short in order to keep it clean and to keep it from getting matted.
The creature in this photo is a sexually confused person, whom PA holds up as a role mode…PA the reason Nuns cut their hair PA is a sign of modesty as there are now brides of Christ with the habit being their veils…This cannot be said for the LCWR crowd as they have abandoned Christ for their “social justice and feminism”
Mark PA, I am not talking about extreme prettiness or beauty here but womanliness. There are many women who are more “Plain Janes” who are very womanly, and therefore attractive to men and quite often marry very handsome men and have good marriages. On the other hand, I know of an Episcopal Church that is now a Mosque because most of the men and women of that Church left because they could not stand the woman “priest”. She clipped her hair into a butch; wore nothing but pants and a male priest’s outfit and no make up or jewelry. In other words she wanted to look like and be a man., and it turned the congregation off.
Also, Mark PA, as you indicated, the nuns who brought you up wore dresses or skirts with veils. Nuns back then always clipped their hair, which was fine, because they feminized it with a veil.
Well, Anne T, I’m glad that I’m a guy and don’t have to wear makeup. If women don’t wear make up that is OK with me. I think a lot of women overdo it with makeup. You wonder what their face really looks like. I couldn’t stand all that stuff on my face, some women probably feel the same way.
I really should have used the word “mannish” in my post yesterday at 8:14 pm not unattractive or repulsive as it is the woman’s butch hair cut that is unattractive on her.
The photo of the woman in question gives her a deformed persona. Womanly beauty comes from within, and this woman displays no womanly characteristics at all. She is a living example of the consequence of sin, is sodomy.
Beauty is as beauty does, isn’t that what you’re trying to say, Canisius? This woman is doing something not only ugly, but bizarre and that is what you were saying about her ‘looks’. Her outward manifestation simply expresses what is boiling like a witches kettle under the lid, right? It triggers deeply held fears you have and this is quite natural. She’s like the witch in Hansel and Gretel, the stepmother in Cinderella and the wicked queen in Sleeping Beauty. Recent studies of witches in centuries past reveal that they are the ones who performed abortions with their herb infusions, and sold other herbs as pregnancy preventatives, etc. and the stuff to make your husband ill etc. and were really pretty scary. They’re presented now as sweet and innocent herbalists (and I’m sure many were) but many were more like Monsanto chemical/Planned Parenthood combined. These ‘types’ are pretty consistent throughout the ages and in another age, these women would sometimes be burned at the stake or drowned, I would think? I think this particular woman means well but she’s so delusional…I mean, what normal woman wants to pretend to be a priest? I don’t think she’s a witch so much as a crone that lives at the fringe of society…and I find her more sad than anything else. Try to be a little more understanding and thank God you aren’t her.
Mark, your answer does not “hold water” as you know exactly what I mean. Plenty of Traditionalists Catholic women and Amish women do not wear make up, but they still look womanly because they wear dresses and veils or women”s hats. Women can also wear ladies’s jeans or slacks and still look womanly because of their feminine hairstyles or accessories.
Now I am off your merry-go-round.
Well, Anne T, actually I wish more women wore skirts and dresses. I think they are prettier. I don’t really like jeans on women. Skinny jeans are the worst. They look awful on almost all women. Hats and veils are rare on women anymore, at least where I live.
Canisius, I am so sorry that you lived a life of violence and lust. I know that you may find me funny at times but I have to say that I am thankful for my innocence. I think of how I was as a young person and violence and lust were not parts of my life at all. I never was in any fights and I was pretty much pure of heart so lust was no problem for me. I just didn’t objectify people and that is a wonderful thing. Looking back in a way I am amazed at how chaste I was, it seems like I had a certain immunity to being corrupted.
PA, you consistently defy reality by saying your youth was void of violence or lust.
Don’t know a saint when you are talking with one, do you?
You always miss the point PA, its a pity you did not experience the real world. I do not regret a single fight or sexual encounter, both made me prepared for the brutality of the world. I don’t find you funny PA, I find you unable to recognize Truth as I stated you are unable to recognize the evil of so called gay marriage with you self proclaimed piety, but I am with massive amount of sin I have committed..
Canisius, you say that you do not regret a single fight or sexual encounter. What is the point of confession then? Fighting is a sin and is something that a person should regret, especially if you ended up physically injuring someone. If you got into a fight to protect someone or in self-defense, that would be different. I would hope that if any of your sexual encounters were with something that you did not love and that you just used a person, such a a one night stand or a casual encounter, that this would be something that you regret.
PA, you have no idea what the aspects of my violent encounters and once again I do not like you trying to school me, it is really tiresome. As someone who agrees with so called “gay marriage” you have no moral high ground to stand on to tell me anything…..
Canisius, just because I didn’t have fights and sexual encounters when I was growing up doesn’t mean that I didn’t experience the “real world.” I wasn’t brought up in a cocoon. My parents drank and smoked, my dad used to take me to bars on weekends when I was a kid. A lot of the kids that I went to school with drank and experimented with drugs. I had some exposure to that but I abstained. My best friend in college took drugs in his teens and he liked being around me because it helped him stay clean. I never missed Mass on Sunday and in college went to daily Mass several times a week and was also involved in prayer groups and Bible studies. That was part of my “real world.” I suppose I tended to avoid occasions of sin and was not easily corrupted but honestly I would say that my world was as real as yours. As a young person it seems that I was a lot more conservative than you were.
If a gay person were on CCD and said they didn’t regret a single sexual encounter, they’d be blasted off the internets. But somehow these equally sinful acts are treated differently here. I wonder why.
Canisius, you seem to reject almost totally the faith and the morality of the Church.
PA, you forget how Jesus regarded the Centurion, who lived a life of violence. Jesus held him up as an example of faith. Jesus never held up a sodomite as an example of anything good.
Sometimes, comments are so irrational that you really wonder whether it’s a drunk post.
You want to know why YFC because though my past acts were sins, they were not against the natural law, they were the actions of a misspent youth and I never wanted these acts affirmed by the Church.. @ Anon you are wrong, I never reject the morality of the Faith I was just not always able to live up to it. But I never demanded the Church affirm and accept my sins as YFC and PA do. They are the ones who reject the morality of the Church. Now don’t go away mad, just go away BURN THE RAINBOW FLAG
Actually, Canisius, if you “used protection” in any of your past acts, the Church considers this against the “natural law.” The Church considers the use of contraceptives to be “disordered.”
Guess What PA, I never did…..So are still demanding the Church accept your view that you have no problem with sodomy so long as its in a monogamous relationship… again don’t try and school me I will counter you at ever turn…BURN THE RAINBOW FLAG
Fr. Bryan Joyce: Presider of the Original Clown Mass.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgKweu0ZWVs
Another “bull dyke”…now masquerading as a man of the cloth…if you get my drift. I bet she used to get into bar fights with guys, just to prove how “hard” she was, back in the day… Diesel Dykes like to brawl with dude’s in tavern’s in LA, watched a few diesel scraps… shocking, positively shocking…
What a shame that such misguided people would call themselves Catholics for Equality. It implies that all the rest of us are de facto members of a non-existent group of the reprehensible known as Catholics for Inequality, no matter how committed some of us may be to the concept of justice, fairness, dignity and equality between all human beings, not merely between men and women.
I lament that the simple principle of equality between men and women has been assaulted by those who have been misled into equating equality with outrageous, unintended, and insupportable concepts. The implication is that if we are for equality among all human beings, we are automatically rebels against traditional values, communists, socialists, lesbians, drug addicts, and, God forbid, possibly even Democrats. Feminists who also respect life, fidelity, goodness, truth, beauty and health becomes unimaginable creatures, oddities, who worthy aims are further dragged to the ground by the rebellious, outrageous, indefensible and sometimes illegal behavior of women and men such as these disrespectful, now self-excommunicated, former Catholics.
Of course there is a long history of denouncing, disdaining, distorting and trying to destroy high principles and great truths, as many Christians and geniuses know from personal experience.
Thankfully, truth and light ultimately prevail generally, though it can take a long time, and much that is regrettable usually delays widespread acceptance of high truths and new discoveries, inventions and creations.
Among even the most admired, respected and even advanced human groups, there does seem to be a nearly mandatory percentage of misguided, demented, and/or evil human beings who manage to inject dissonance, discord, and depravity into the mix, dismaying those who seek and exude the most luminous truths, light and love.
It is for that reason that humans must be bound by laws and systems of justice, but there is no law against muddled minds. The most reprehensible of human beings cannot destroy the highest forms of truth and light and thus may be dismissed as distracting, dangerous, or at least deplorable. But truth and light will prevail unto eternity, as they are gifts to all humanity from God Himself.
Amen to Maryanne Leonard when she writes:
“I lament that the simple principle of equality between men and women has been assaulted by those who have been misled into equating equality with outrageous, unintended, and insupportable concepts. The implication is that if we are for equality among all human beings, we are automatically rebels against traditional values, communists, socialists, lesbians, drug addicts, and, God forbid, possibly even Democrats. Feminists who also respect life, fidelity, goodness, truth, beauty and health becomes unimaginable creatures, oddities, who worthy aims are further dragged to the ground by the rebellious, outrageous, indefensible and sometimes illegal behavior of women and men such as these disrespectful, now self-excommunicated, former Catholics.
Of course there is a long history of denouncing, disdaining, distorting and trying to destroy high principles and great truths, as many Christians and geniuses know from personal experience.”
These women believe they are men from all indications.
Sadly, I saw a “diesel”…pick on a “lipstick lesbian” in LA, yeeeears ago…a man jumped in, quite unaware that the “diesel” was a female (I use that term loosely)…he curb-stomped the “diesel”…afterward he was shocked it was female! She towered over the guy and had a good 60-70 pounds on him…didn’t help the “diesel” much…LOL!
OK, Rhodesian, I’m resisting the temptation to enter in with a bunch of stories from back in the day, and will only blog “LOL” on this topic.
I am from FL. Last year our Bishop had a letter signed by him inserted in every Parish Diocese Sunday bulletin. He told us about a woman who advertised herself as a Catholic priest and where in the Diocese she was located, and stated something to the effect that we need to know about this and never to attend one of her fake masses. (These were not the exact words, but the exact intent.)
She was not part of any “Diocese” Parish.
In the USA all Catholic Parishes (Church property) belong to the Diocese Bishop in the land records. He has complete control of what happens on Church owned property. As owner, he has full civil legal authority of this private property as well. (When a new Bishop takes over a Diocese, all Church owned property is put into his name for legal purposes.)
When there are abuses contact the Diocese Bishop. It is his job to inform the Faithful; it is his job to stop all abuses on “his” property. Abp Cordileone has full authority and responsibility in Church law and Civil Law (due to private property ownership). Please send him this article and make certain he is fully informed.
You are mostly correct about ownership. Generally property is held in “sole” by the Bishop. There are several dioceses that are moving ownership to the parish itself, to lower liability payments. That of course creates other problems, but “corporation sole” is no longer the only model of ownership.
“notorious Cardinal Roger Mahony” – why are none of us surprised when his name keeps cropping up?!
The LCWR (Leadership of Catholic Women Religious) and NETWORK (of Sr. Simone Campbell, Nuns on the Bus, and Obamacare fame) need to be purged of heretics and schismatics as well.
Leaders seem to include: Sisters of Mercy of the Americas. None of the officers of these organizations Orders wear habits. They have infiltrated Bishops’ Conferences, and Diocese positions, and also teach children.
If theses organizations (and Orders) do not immediately adhere to ALL teachings of the Church as stated within the – “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition” – they must be fired from all Church positions and be disbanded. There is no need for a mini-Magisterium of women.
The NETWORK web site states they work and collaborate with the USCCB and CCHD, and the Sisters of Mercy of the Americas, plus more.
All known evil within the Church must be purged. Including those who are disobedient to any of the Church teachings as stated in the CCC, prideful and unrepentant. They scandalize and confuse.
Jesus stated: Mt 7:15-23
St Paul stated: Mt 5:9-13
Maybe, just maybe; if women were ordained from the on-set there would not have been the sex abuse scandal. The motherly instincts of women would not have tolerated the rape of children by priests. They would have taken the action necessary to protect the children. The men simply protected each other and allowed the abuse to continue and to grow.
Wrong again buddha from the Hoosier state!…Women nun’s who are lesbian, have molested little girls and teenagers…you need to read more sport…furthermore, this problem has only exploded over the past 40-50 years…since the overflow ordination of “GAY” men, who have been molesting boys, and sub-adults… these priest’s are PEDERAST’S!…Mahony ordained scores of them!
Proud Rhodesian, I think nuns molesting girls is very rare. It was more common for priests to molest girls than it was for nuns too. I think the biggest problem in the past was overworked and overburdened nuns hitting children. This is not as common as it was in the past.
God doesn’t make errors.
He doesn’t, you are correct…but He made you and I…and we’re both sinner’s…in fact He gave us free-will as well…this is His greatest gift…you can pursue holiness and sanctity…or evil and mammon…the choice is yours…
Indianaite says: “The motherly instincts of women would not have tolerated the rape of children by priests.”
While a mother’s instinct can be accurate and extremely powerful, the above statement is NOT always true and has NOT always been the case. The motherly instincts and wisdom of women can also be seriously compromised if these mothers are also committing serious mortal sins such as abortion or defending and supporting other dissent from Church teaching such as using or approving artificial contraception or the approval and support for same sex unions. When many young mothers were told about predators in Orange County these mothers still vigorously defended the predators because the predators had also groomed and manipulatively stroked the female egos of trusting mothers. There were mothers who became enraged when particular predators were made known and they defended these predators with much more loyalty than they did Christ’s teachings. These predators were always fun and friendly and complimentary about their children. No one really cared about the other waving red flags of disloyalty to the teachings of the Catholic Church. Mother’s instincts need to recognize that if someone is seriously disloyal to God first, then they need to be more pro-active in protecting their own children. There have also been cases were a predator appears orthodox but the mothers still defend the predator solely based on the compliments that the predator doted on the mother and the child.
There is another true story example of the misguided instincts of the town crusading mother who defended a popular scout leader while she vindictively attacked the credibility of the teenage accuser and his family. This mother turned the entire town against the boy who reported the molestation. How shocked and humiliated was this mother when her own TWO sons finally got up enough courage to tell their crusading mother that the scout master had been molesting them for years too. At the time of the television airing of this story both of her sons were committed in psychiatric hospitals on suicide watch.
A mother’s best instinct is to always try to remain in the state of grace.
Beautifully stated Catherine…
Thank you proud Rhodesian!
Yes, the pagan Queen Jezebel was very “motherly”, except if she wanted your property for her husband the King. Then she had you murdered without conscience. It all just proves that women can be just as evil as men, whether they are beautiful or not.
Wow, Catherine, that was so poignant and thought-provoking. Staying in the state of grace requires humility and self-discipline and our secular age is in complete contradiction to these virtues and undermines our ability to see Truth. Mother Angelica calls it misguided compassion when we’re afraid to tell our children or acquaintances the Truth because we’re afraid of hurting their feelings or causing an upset, but the mother you described not only didn’t know Truth, but also did not hesitate to hurt or wound the young ‘whistleblower”. I suppose this would be called misguided vindictiveness. What is the outcome of the young man who spoke out? Has he been welcomed back in the community?
Dana,
Hi! I’m sorry I missed your question. The last thing that I read about the young man was that he was still treated like a pariah by some people for exposing this huge scandal. The young man who was molested by the scoutmaster said he got the feeling that some of the townspeople would have preferred for him to keep silent because of the division that it ended up causing between members of the town. It’s called *hate the messenger* no mater how truthful someone is. There were many people who would have preferred to pretend that evil does not exist or that evil cannot touch their lives. The town’s comfort zone was more important than this young man unburdening the truth to stop a predator.
Thanks Catherine…it was like waiting for the other shoe to drop! ;0). I’m sorry to hear the outcome, but I’m not surprised… So sad. Poor young man. At least it’s not like in muslim countries where girls that are raped are killed for being adulterous.
Indianaite, are you saying that Jesus did not know what he was doing?
Or that women are free of sexual sins?
What about when they KILL their own babies through Abortion?
CCC: ” 1577 “Only a baptized man (vir) validly receives sacred ordination.” The Lord Jesus chose men (viri) to form the college of the twelve apostles, and the apostles did the same when they chose collaborators to succeed them in their ministry.
The college of bishops, with whom the priests are united in the priesthood, makes the college of the twelve an ever-present and ever-active reality until Christ’s return. The Church recognizes herself to be bound by this choice made by the Lord himself. For this reason the ordination of women is not possible.”
Mk 3:14-19; Lk 6:12-16; 1 Tim 3:1-13; 2 Tim 1:6; Titus 1:5-9.
Canon 1024.
Stuff and nonsense. The only group in the Church that has stonewalled investigation into their responsibility for abuse is the LCWR. They have plenty to hide. If they were ordained there would have been worse coverups than in LA. They continue to this day to refuse access.
Even their Liberal flack catchers recognize their deceit and hypocrisy.
Women cannot be ordained. I am sure many survivors of incest and other abuse have read your post with great bitterness. Many women have not protected their children from abuse.
I sense there is more than one anonymous posting on this Site! If so, please further identify yourself!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
Kenneth, the problem is that people forget to type in their names — which means they get labelled as “Anonymous.”
and then again maybe not…….
Why is Brian Joyce still a pastor and considered a Catholic priest. He has a very long history of acting like anything but an ordained Catholic priest. Hopefully, Bishop Barber can put him out to pasture. Why doesn’t Brian Joyce leave the Catholic Church and form a church that he would like. Who needs him???
In a perfect world Cdl. Mahony would be imprisoned for the negligent acts he is profoundly guilty of! How many children and sub-adults were sexually assaulted, due to his “gay” pederast priest’s he ordained, and placed back into active ministry, even after they were outed for child molestation!…How many?
Perhaps to Cdl Mahony he does live in a perfect world, but to others he lives in a world of hurt.
This Man Cardinal Mahony is in trouble unless he repents.
I agree with Erick and the post following his: Stop this Already! You’re cheapening the blog: we don’t need this information and I, for one, don’t want it.
Another one of these and CCD is in my morning mail is to be immediately deleted.
“Another one of these and CCD is in my morning mail is to be immediately deleted.”
Can you imagine one of the apostles telling another apostle, “If you don’t do things I like or my way then I’m out of here.”
Thank you ANNE!
ANNE says:
May 14, 2013 at 9:49 am
No, this type of article helps each of us to do our required jobs – informing the Diocese Bishop and asking him to take appropriate action.
When you knowingly let sin and/or scandal stand by doing nothing, you are a participant.
CCC: ” 1868 Sin is a personal act. Moreover, we have a responsibility for the sins committed by others when we cooperate in them:
– by participating directly and voluntarily in them;
– by ordering, advising, praising, or approving them;
– by not disclosing or not hindering them when we have an obligation to do so;
– by protecting evil-doers.
Larry,
Bye, bye! There is no reason for CCC to change this policy!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
Larry, don’t you like the TRUTH ?
Without the TRUTH – lies, abuses, and false teachers are allowed to grow, prosper, and deceive people.
The Devil hates light to shine on his evil works. He does not want his evil works to be corrected.
Save your breath,MAC…Larry’s already ‘out of here’ and surely has deleted the post. ;o)
I confess that stories like this are so embarrassing and make me cringe because these people, for want of a better word, are such ‘losers’. I hate seeing people make fools of themselves and bring such ridiculous publicity to our beloved Church. It’s the same feeling I get when someone sends me the ‘Walmartian People’ emails …photos of people in various states of undress, and motley hairstyles etc. while shopping at Walmart that are positively appalling and I’m embarrassed for them and for our country as these emails go all around the world. Yes, I confess I would rather not read these stories either, and I would like them to disappear, but as in the case of Fr. Joyce, Gravey’s video from 2002 shows that these people do not go away and won’t go away on their own. If these utterly repellent and anti-Catholic activities aren’t dealt with in a thorough manner that brings closure and no possibility of springing up yet again they’ll just keep cropping up like hydra heads.
PS…I’d better qualify what I meant by ‘losers’…it has nothing whatever to do with being well or poorly dressed, rich or poor or good looking or ugly, but everything to do with an inner dignity. It is a lack of decorum or proper understanding that seems to permeate our age. Jane Austen summed this up handily in the character of Lydia Bennet in ‘Pride and Prejudice’. She was the sister who had absolutely no understanding of the the degredation and embarrassment she brought on her family by her wanton elopement with the rogue, Wickam, or in her vulgar behavior at social events etc. When people lack this sensitivity of what is right and proper, they’re capable of anything, to be frank. Saint John Vianney had this dignity, for example, and even in his dirty habit, much mended and showing the wear of many years of constant use, he carried himself like a king. I’m reminded of the story of a famous actress of his day that made the journey to D’Ars to see him in her elegant costly gown and jewels, and he couldn’t stay with her because her stench of sin overcame him, rather like the madame that met with Saint Catherine.
Saint John Of God is rather notorious here in the Archdiocese of San Francisco, and I feel sorry for the poor priest from Africa who was assigned to be “administrator” there — probably no local priest would touch the place with a ten foot pole!
They used to use grape juice for Holy Communion instead of wine, which is totally forbidden.
They used to force the priest to sit down during the Communion Procession so the lay people could distribute the Eucharist instead of him.
They even used ‘baskets’ for the consecration, which meant of course that pieces of the Blessed Sacrament would break off and then fall onto the floor.
Nut-city!!!
This is what happens when no one reports Mass abuses to the Diocese Bishop with a copy to the US Papal Nuncio in Washington DC.
The rubrics of all Ordinary Forms of the Mass in the USA must adhere to GIRM (General Instruction of the Roman Missal, which can be found on the Vatican and USCCB web sites.)
The rubrics of all Extraordinary Forms of the Mass must adhere to the 1962 Missal.
GIRM can be found on the Vatican and USCCB web sites.
If you want reverent Masses, make it happen.
I guess they were like Judas who thought the expensive ointment in the alabaster jar was too good for the Lord of the Universe. It is one thing when the people cannot afford more expensive vestments, etc. at the present time, and quite another when they are just being too darn cheap, and baskets are definitely out of the question.
As a Catholic of African Origin, I find it hard to believe an African Priest would have trouble enforcing Catholic law.
Why do people attack Nuns today for having short hair?
They are not trying to look glamorous, nor should they — and whether they wear a simple habit like Mother Teresa, or an elaborate habit that takes hours of starching and bleaching, or wear simple clothing to carry out their work, who wants a Sister to worry about styled hair, lipstick, and all that stuff?
Priests, too, should not spend too much effort on hair and other non-essentials — a chort haircut, simple clothing, sensible shoes, these all enable the men and women Religious to do their ministry without obsessing about fashion.
As long as the laity are modestly dressed it does not matter what they wear.
That being said, we must remember that Priests and Nuns are supposed to be representatives of the Catholic Church.
They specific type of hair cut should not matter UNLESS it is sending a specific message as the one in the article. – Butch.
Because, Dottie, it makes them look mannish if their hair is too, too short and uncovered since they are not supposed to wear any jewelry or make up. The nuns in my area most all wear mid-length skirts and blouses or long habits with veils. They look very womanly. not sexy or out to get a man but womanly.
My last post was meant for Michael. My apologies to Dottie.