Like any journalist I hate to be beaten to a story, and this week Catholic World News (CWN) was late on a big one. Yet I have no regrets. If you’ll join me for a few minutes behind my editorial desk, I’ll explain why—and in the process, tell you something about CWN and about the Catholic world we cover.
Last Saturday, when I read the first report on La Nuova Bussola Quotidiana (found in English as the Daily Compass) that Pope Francis planned to strip Cardinal Raymond Burke of his salary and oust him from his Vatican apartment, I did not believe it. Would a Sovereign Pontiff really take such a vindictive action? My editorial instinct — the sensor that Hemingway talked about — warned me to proceed with extreme caution. So CWN did not mention the report in our headlines that day.
Why such hesitation? Because all too often, critics of this pontificate have rushed out with sensational reports, based on incomplete information, portraying things in Rome as even worse than they are (and they are bad enough). Such reports harm our cause: the cause of journalism and the cause of truth. Yes, I want the story. But I want the story to hold up. I want CWN to be recognized as a reliable source—as the place where readers will find a calm, balanced analysis.
On the other hand I did not entirely discount the report. Apparently the Pope had said something about Cardinal Burke during his November 20 meeting with leaders of the Roman Curia. Was the story in La Nuova Bussola Quotidiana based on a partial report? On some misunderstanding? An overly excited source (or an overly excitable reporter) might leap past the facts to an inaccurate conclusion; I’ve seen that happen often as well.
So I did my due diligence, contacting a few of my own sources, watching posts on social media, checking other news outlets, trying to determine what really had happened at that November 20 meeting. Within a matter of hours I noticed three things:
My friends in Rome thought the story was — if not perfectly accurate — at least substantially true. No one who attended that meeting of Curial leaders was talking for the record. But informed sources confirmed that the Pope had discussed punitive measures against Cardinal Burke.
Other responsible news outlets were saying roughly the same thing; their sources, too, were confirming the original report.
Perhaps most telling, the Pope’s most ardent supporters, who had reacted to the original report by scolding journalists who carried it, saying that it was a wild rumor, gradually changed their tune and proclaimed that the Pope had every right to evict a cardinal from the Vatican.
On Tuesday, CWN carried the story — with a telltale question-mark at the end of our headline, indicating that we were not certain of the details.
Later we would learn that, sure enough, some of those details may have been wrong. The Pope did say that he planned to cut off Cardinal Burke’s stipend. He did not plan to evict him from his apartment, but he did plan to begin charging rent. The papal biographer Austen Ivereigh added that he had asked the Pontiff directly about the story, and the Pope had denied calling the American prelate his “enemy.”
To date no one who attended that November 20 meeting, apart from the Pope himself, has spoken for the record. (Cardinal Burke reports that he has been told nothing.) No doubt more details will eventually emerge. But it is now clear that the story I found incredible was essentially true. Pope Francis really was planning to take the actions that I thought too mean-spirited for a Pope to contemplate. After ten years of covering this pontificate I am not easily shocked. This story shocked me.
But then as I recovered from that shock, I remembered another time when I had missed an interesting story because I thought it seemed so improbable. Immediately after Pope Francis was elected, reports emerged that as he was preparing to step out on the loggia of St. Peter’s to greet the public for the first time as Pontiff, he shook off an aide who was trying to put the papal mozzetta across his shoulders and said, “The carnival is over!” I could not credit those reports. It seemed impossible that a man newly elected as Successor to St. Peter would take the time to make a catty remark about his predecessor’s willingness to wear the traditional regalia of his office. As the years passed, and I learned more about the personality of this Pontiff, I came to believe those reports. Why would anyone who was on the spot remember the Pope’s exact words, unless they were shocking enough to be etched in the memory? Why would anyone circulate such an outlandish report, unless it were true? Credo quia absurdum.
Twice, then, I have been late to an interesting story because I underestimated how rough Pope Francis can be on those who oppose or annoy him. Still I do not regret acting on the assumption that the Bishop of Rome would be above petty quarrels. Like any loyal Catholic I look to the Pope as a source of unity in the Church, not a source of conflict.
And oddly enough, I think this unfortunate episode may help to restore the Pope’s role as unifier—eventually. Because when the next papal conclave comes, the cardinals will surely remember the shabby treatment of Cardinal Burke — and of Cardinal Müller, and Archbishop Gänswein, and Bishop Strickland, and others—and realize how badly the Church needs a Pontiff who does not merely talk about synodal government, but walks the walk.
Meanwhile I will continue to marvel at the way the secular reporters who cover the Vatican continue to portray Pope Francis as a reformer who welcomes all points of view, and ignore the callous way he treats those who disagree with him.
From Phil Lawler (Catholic World News) at Catholic Culture.org
Very good report. With my daily rosary, I pray for the pope’s intentions for the month, his conversion and his health. As Advent begins on Sunday and we all are preparing for the Second Coming of Christ, I pray that PF too is thinking about the End Times.
I appreciate your optimistic conclusion. From your lips to God’s ears.
Historically, we can find a list of papal abdications (renunciations, or resignations), as well as some heretical popes, some excommunicated popes, some greedy, hypocritical popes from aristocratic families who amassed wealth and land, popes who committed nepotism (giving jobs, money, and special favors to relatives and friends); popes who committed simony (selling of the office of the papacy or other sacred ecclesiastical offices, or sacred items or sacraments), and a few who were desposed by force and driven from office. We also find popes who tried to get married, or who were were married, had mistresses, had legitimate and illegitimate children; and there were the anti-popes. And one pope dug up the corpse of his predecessor, put it on a Church trial for various crimes (the Cadaver Synod, or Cadaver Trial), was declared guilty, and the pope got his revenge by punishing the cadaver– violently mutilating it, cutting off three fingers of the cadaver’s right hand, used to bless people— and nullified all his documents, writings, and acts. Then, the cadaver was stripped of its papal garments, excommunicated posthumously, and the cadaver was thrown into the Tiber River. It was later retrieved and buried. When the body washed up on the shores of the Tiber, it was said to cause miracles– and a mob of people becane infuriated, attacked and imprisoned the current pope, and strangled him ti death. And there were several other popes who were murdered violently– and one pope who gave land to a mistress, murdered several people, and was murdered by a jealous husband, who caught the pope in bed with his wife. There is no Church legislation to remove a bad pope from office, for any reason. However, it is possible for the Church to someday create such legislation. Papal supremacy can be a cross to bear, at times.
So what’s your point?
“So what’s your point?” It is not mine to answer I suppose but the obvious answer, or so it seems to me, is that if a pope’s actions appear less than praiseworthy there is precedent for such in the annals of Church history and perhaps we should not be too surprised. If the original blogger can give a better answer to your question, jon, I await it as do you.
The Church doesn’t depend on the moral quality, prudential judgement or maturity of the Pope. Christ made that guarantee to us. When a pope is manifestly bungling the job whether out of malice, ignorance or pettiness, while troubling or even scandalous, the faithful have no need to fear for the ultimate welfare of the Church. So we are not afraid. That’s the point.
“That’s the point.” Well said asdf.
Faith suffices.
Pope Francis is not a bad pope.
He straddles the line. Plays it both ways. He’s ambiguous, and ambiguity can be considered a bad quality in an office holder whose office is chiefly about providing clarity and unity.
Pope Francis has not been ambiguous, nor does he “straddle the line” whatever that means in your mind. The Holy Father has been clear. It is his detractors, more than anything, who deliberately misconstrue and misinterpret the Pope’s words in the most uncharitable way.
You always narrow your support of the pope to his “words”. You never comment on his action or inaction, as the case usually is in governing the church. Often the pope’s words are fine. It’s his governance that often belies his words; hence the ambiguity. Pope Francis has been anything but clear in his governance that he desires to uphold Catholic orthodoxy. He has been quite clear, however, that he hates conservative Catholics.
Cite the date and the location of when the Pope has expressed hatred towards conservative Catholics.
While you’re at it, identify an action of governance of the Pope that has caused ambiguity.
I don’t find him ambiguous at all.
And Democrats don’t think Joe Biden has dementia at all.
Dan has been talking about a book called “How to Read a Book.” Mortimer Adler has another book called “How to Speak, How to Listen”
In his introduction he writes “Even the most skilled writing remains ineffective when it falls into the hands of unskilled readers.”
“Even the most skilled writing remains ineffective when it falls into the hands of unskilled readers.” Yes, Yes, a thousand times Yes. Thank you for alerting me to this other work. The skilled reader identifies a writer’s key terms (how they are defined), how those key terms are used in key assertions or propositions, and how those propositions are used to construct an argument. If the reader can do this, then the reader has earned the right to “talk back” to the author, that is, either show how the author’s argument is faulty due to areas where he is uninformed, ill-informed, illogical; failing all this, the reader either must suspend judgment or agree with the author. Much goes into the hard work of understanding.
no dementia: The Democrats have dementia.
8 bad popes in 2000 years.
History is just history. It speaks for itself. There is no “point.” Why do you look for one? Are you insecure? All mankind sins, even those in top clerical leadership positions. Each historical character, and we, ourselves, must all ultimately stand alone before God, with all that we have done, good or bad. There are good religious leaders and bad ones, too. Ultimately, each of us is responsible for our own soul. St. Francis of Assisi knew that, in his own era, with much Church corruption, and many bad religious leaders. He took dealing with his own salvation with Christ, as a personal responsibility– as we all must do. All the saints did this, and so did our mature, elder, devout Catholic ancestors. It takes lots of maturity, to commit to following Christ Alone, when others reject Him, who are supposed to be religious leaders. The Holy Spirit does not “protect” anyone or anything, unless you give your “yes” freely to the Holy Spirit, and submit to God’s Will– as Mary did. You cannot lie– the Holy Spirit knows, automatically. The Holy Spirit automatically protects Christ’s teachings, and the Sacraments, and all that is of Christ. But the Holy Spirit cannot, and will not, falsely “protect” anything of man and man’s human weakness and sinfulness. When you sin against God, you bring automatic punishment upon yourself. The Holy Spirit cannot “magically””protect” a bishop or a pope, with ambiguous actions and words, refusing to clearly state and totally stand up for Christ’s teachings. Say clearly that you stand up for Christ– or else you are actually not really, truly, standing up for Him at all, you are lying, rejecting Him, and He knows it, immediately– and will hold you accountable. That is why the good religious leaders, honest and true to Jesus Christ, submitted the Dubia to the pope. Stand up for Jesus Christ, give Him your FULL ‘YES” —- and no ‘baloney,” no ambiguity. No, a cleric must never “bless” a gay couple living in sin. Do not make excuses, out of your sinful human weakness– to try to “bless” gay couples anyway– and commit sin, before God. It won’t work! The Holy Spirit will refuse, and you will face consequences for those sins, before God— it’s all autonatic. So– do not sin. Do not abuse Christ’s holy Teachings, or any of His holy Sacraments, or anything that is of Christ, like clergy blessings. Do not be an adulterer, or pro-abort or pro-gay “marriage” Catholic politician, and lie, before Almighty God, and wrongfully receive Holy Communion, without repentance of sin. You will not receive anything from God– you are not in a state of grace. Instead, you will bring consequences for sin to yourself– automatically. Do not lie before God, as a priest or bishop, either, and abuse the Sacrament of Penance, and give false ‘”absolution for all, no repentance of sin”— in Confession. Etc. God created the whole world, and mankind– according to a very exact Divine design. There is nothing “ambiguous” in all of God’s Creation. It is all exact. No “baloney.” God’s Divine Justice, Mercy, and Love are all exact. You need a good religious training, and to do exactly as God says, as a mature Catholic cleric– no abuses, no lies, no “baloney.”
So, that was the “point” of my comment of Dec. 1, at 4pm, “Papal bad deeds in history.” Church history is full of scoundrels. The whole world is full of scoundrels. Just folliw Christ.
If your point is “just follow Christ” by citing only the bad side of the Catholic Church’s papal history, then you are no different from a Protestant apologist or an Orthodox one.
There are far more good and sterling popes in number (and even mediocre ones) than the “scoundrels” you keep reminding us about.
What is missing in your point is the Catholic belief that following Christ means following the teachings of the Pope.
You cannot divorce and separate the ministry of Christ today from the ministry of the Catholic Church and the Pope.
Just sayin. People.
If a pope were to tell you to commit a serious sin, Jon, would you do it? Some popes have as some popes have had mistresses, etc. Those women knew what they were asked to do was wrong but went ahead and did it anyway — out of greed, lust or in some cases fear. In those cases, we should follow Jesus not a pope as the other poster commented. The same pertains to men asked to do evil.
Nothing in Pope Francis’ magisterium teaches sin.
You do not get the point, jon. Too young. For starters, do not take your kids to see Jesuit Fr. James Martin and Sr. Jeannie Grammick– strong, false Catholic, LGBT promoters. And don’t present “Amoris Laetitia” as Catholic truth, either, to your kids.
There is nothing wrong with Pope Francis’s Apostolic Exhortation entitled “Amoris Laetitia.” This Exhortation by the Pope conveys Catholic truths about sundry subjects.
Well, for one thing, Pope Francis’ ghostwriter didn’t understand what Thomas Aquinas wrote about moral theology regarding particular moral judgments departing from moral norms. He got that completely wrong.
Could you please explain?
Amoris Laetitia is the teaching of the Church. Don’t keep your kids away from it or they will not be true Catholics?
I never finished reading it because marriage and family are so triggering for me.
I will make it my Advent discipline.
Still reading Laudate Deum.
I need to learn Latin, too..
We are Catholic. We follow Christ. The Pope is the representative of Christ on earth.
I do not see how anyone who knew the Gospels would find him to be wrong in any way.
Most of the things that people have freaked out about are not about faith.
Half of it is that they don’t like the people he gave a job to.
Nobody is talking about what Cardinal Burke did.
It ain’t the dubia.
I do not think I have ever seen a Cardinal in the Catholic Church participate in a conference directly opposed to a Synod.
It does not matter why he did it. ( I assume he was paid.)
Every Synod there is some group who has a protest conference.
If you had told Cardinal Burke 15 years ago, that he would be the featured speaker at one, he would have told you that he would never do that.
He used to be a loyal son of the Church.
you have to admit…the Pope would have a lot more credibility with Burke and Strickland were he as hammer fisted with the German bishops.
Think about what you just said.
assume he was paid:
It was the dubia. The conference was about Cardinal Tucho’s response to the dubia, which the dubia Cardinals found unsatisfactory.
Assume Burke was paid? Don’t assume – prove it.
I seem to remember reading there were other Cardinals in that counter-synod conference, At any rate, Cardinal Zen, who was not present, nevertheless publicly read a paper calling out the “untenable” pope’s positions on synodal/moral matters. Do you think Zen, too, should be deprived of his pension and housing privileges?
Dissidents are dissidents.
And-I never knew Cardinals got money and a place to live.
I leave that up to the Church and have no opinion on it.
The average Catholic priest makes $65,723 as of 2023. They are also provided with benefits and a place to live– the church rectory..Bishops are paid higher salaries.. Cardinal Burke is an archbishop.. At the Vatican in Rome, there are various places for clergy to live. The Vatican has always helped clerics working for the Church in Rome, to pay for a place to live, at or near the Vatican. The rental charges in Rome, and at the Vatican, are very high. Not sure what the pope’s apt. at the Casa Santa Marta costs, monthly.. Casa Santa Marta apts. are expensive too.– they are like hotel rooms. The pope has a suite of rooms. Cardinal Burke is a faithful Catholic cardinal, not a dissident. The LGBT-promoter, Jesuit Fr. James Martin, is an example of a dissident Catholic cleric.
Cardinal Burke used to be a faithful Catholic cardinal.
Father James Martin has never dissented from any Church teaching that I have found.
You do not know a thing about these two Catholic clerics! Keep your kids far away from LGBT-promoting speeches on Catholic college campuses, by heretical, immoral Jesuit Fr. James Martin.
Where is the proof that Fr. Martin is heretical and immoral?
I ask and ask and no one has proof of it.
If he were a public sinner, there would be proof.
If he was a heretic, there would be proof.
There is none.
The criticism of Fr. Martin that was levied was that he was not teaching the Church’s moral teaching to gay people in his outreach to them.
He said that they already know it.
And nobody had an answer for that.
I don’t care if he was paid.
He should not have done it.
Be a faithful Catholic.
Stop trying to run the Church.
I used to be a huge supporter of both Cardinal Burke and Cardinal Sarah.
There were red flags with both of them.
Now we see.
I have lived under seven Popes, six of whom I respected, even if I happened to question something said or some action taken, one of whom I have no respect whatsoever.
What did you respect about the very short pontificate of John Paul I?
Maybe he just didn’t live long enough as pope to disappoint you.
There are some Polish people in St. Louis that might be thinking that he is getting a taste of his own medicine.
Please explain why some Polish people in St. Louis think Cardinal Burke might be getting a dose of his own medicine.
Kind of interesting to read about Burke’s dispute with a Polish Catholic parish in 2005:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Stanislaus_Kostka_Church_(St._Louis,_Missouri)
Seems that Burke wanted to control/own the parish to seize its sizable assets, but the way the parish was structured (controlled by a lay board of trustees) prevented him from doing that. So he retaliated against the parish by withdrawing clergy and excommunicating the lay leaders there.
So that is what this is all about? A man who called himself Mark from Pennsylvania and said he was gay mentioned the fight over the Polish Cathedral on CCD a long, long, time ago. There seems to be a lot of fights over church reality. If I remember correctly, even Bishop Rene Gracida and Cardinal O’Connor, both of whom I respect, got into a fight over something similar. Gheesh! the battles go on and never end. Never a dull moment for sure.
May Cardinal O’ Connor rest in peace, by the way, and Bishop Gracida is still alive and nearly a 100-years-old. Both were/are fine men in their own way.
Some parishioners at St. Stanislaus Kotska who did not want to be excommunicated had to leave the church they attended.
Burke has always defended his actions as being of service to the church and the papacy, saying it was his obligation as a cardinal and bishop to uphold church teaching and correct errors.
“The sheep depend on the courage of pastors who must protect them from the poison of confusion, error and division,” he told the Oct. 3 conference, prompting applause from the crowd.
This is from the St. Louis Post Dispatch.
I believe that he believes that but I think he is being manipulated by the “sheep”. I was very concerned to see him write an introduction to a book put out by TFP. I will not purchase a book from them but the ads for it act like it is against the Synod-misunderstanding the whole synodality concept.
TFP:
I met Cardinal Burke (3-4 years ago?) in St. Margaret Mary’s Church in Oakland, where he passed by on his way back to the mainland after having been semi-exiled by the pope to Guam. I ambushed the Cardinal with 1 (one) question on the first dubia (on Amoris Laetitia) at the reception line, even while the Knights of Malta watched me with suspicious eyes.
At that time the original dubia Cardinals had promised to denounce the Pope’s refusal to answer the dubia on Amoris Laetitia. I asked Cardinal Burke when this was going to happen. His eminence answered, “Soon. We’re thinking about it. Don’t worry, it will happen.”
Well, it’s been over 2,000 days since, and it hasn’t happened. By now, it’s unlikely the original Dubia Brothers will ever denounce the Pope’s silence on the questions about Amoris Laetitia. I’m not surprised they finally spoke out against Cardinal Tucho’s answers to the second dubia (on the synod) at a conference.
I think it’s unfair to believe the Cardinal is less than prudent to allow himself to be manipulated by “the sheep.”
Well. what were you doing?
To be honest, this sheep tried to manipulate him, but it didn’t work.
So the charge that Cardinal Burke could be/or being manipulated by the sheep
is false.
I probably should not have made an excuse.
“Amoris Lititia” has some very doubtful parts that needed to be answered, Michael Lipton (spelling ?) says they were answered efficiently, but from what I read that he posted, I do not find that the case about all of the latter ones. One cannot bless a homosexual couple together and not cause scandal. Individuals can be blessed if they are trying to behave and do not consider themselves “married” to each other. After Pope Francis answers one Dubia, others pop up.
Well, I am now going to try to keep my own side of the street clean.
Clarification: that should be Michael Lofton in my second line.
I greatly admire the TFP group, for teaching young Catholic boys to stand up for our Catholic Marriage between one man and one woman, no gay “marriage.” They have Rosary Rallies and protest against bad clergy like Jesuit Fr. James Martin, giving his LGBT lectures on Catholic college campuses. They also have Rosary Rallies against Drag Queens and pornography at libraries. These dedicated young Catholic boys are just fantastic! Very young boys, very dedicated to Christ!
I guess, then, you are the kind of person they appeal to.
I am sure you have googled them and learned all about them.
Google them? Of course not. I have been asked to help support them as a Catholic. They also have Pro Life Rosary Rallies. Many non-Catholics have been intrigued and inspired by their Rosary Rallies and have joined them.
Don’t you think that you should vet private organizations that are asking for your support?
You have a great point, about vetting groups. I support any group praying (especially the Rosary) outside abortion clinics, protesting Drag Queens and pornography at the library, or protesting LGBT lessons and transgenderism indoctrination at schools, or denouncing gay sex and gay “marriage” on high school and college campuses, and promoting Biblical Marriage between one man and one woman. Etc. I would happily join them, in praying the Rosary! Why not? I fully support the “One Million Persons” march, in Canada, against sex-ed and LGBT indoctrination lessons in the schools– started by a bunch of Muslim families, and joined by families of all religions. Their kids were grabbing “Pride” flags in schools, demanding that they be taken down and prohibited. I fully support that! I also fully support Riley Gaines’ campaigns against allowing boys pretending to be girls, to compete in sports, with girls, and sharing girls’ locker rooms– that’s immoral. Riley is a Protestant Christian from Tennessee. She’s great! Anyway, I don’t care for radical right wing groups, and won’t join them. But if I saw a group– any group– praying the Rosary to protest a terrible evil– I would get out my Rosary, and join them.
Reply to vet them– yes, you are correct, we all should vet a group carefully. I told one of the TFP leaders, John Horvat lI, that I do support the kids’ Rosary Rallies. But not what looked like his radical, right wing concepts, of his TFP group. A “no,” to that part.
You will support anyone who champions the causes you like.
What did John Horvat say to that?
How do like Riley Gaines’ new calendar?
The TFP– American Society for the Defense of Tradition, Family and Property, whose major campaign is “America Needs Fatima,” has lots of Rosary Rallies– led by many enthusiastic young Catholics. They have a strong outreach on university campuses, too. They make all the immoral liberals just furious– especially Jesuit Fr. James Martin, who calls them a powerful Catholic “hate” group. They have offices all over the country, including one in Orange, Calif. Their main office is in Pennsylvania. There is one man involved with them, John Horvat II, who sent me some information, some of his own writings, that seemed a little too radical right wing, for me. But I ignored that. They do a lot of good for these Catholic kids, teaching them how to stand up for the Catholic Faith, and work to oppose many evils in our country. Go fight abortion, gay marriage, LGBT indoctrination in the schools, Drag Queens and pornography at the libraries , work hard to eradicate these evils in America.
Why don’t you want people to google?
How about just Catholic Answers?
Let me set things straight. I only support any group that fights sin in our country, and I especially admire young Catholic kids fighting sin. That takes lots of courage and dedication. As for what seems to be the “core beliefs” of tfe TFP group– — no, of course not, I do not like radical right wing groups– which they seem, to be, at first glance. I don’t agree with that, personally. But hey, if a group of kids is praying the Rosary, protesting Drag Queen Story Hour and pornography at a library, or praying the Rosary outside an abortion clinic, or denouncing gay sex and gay “marriage,” and promoting Marriage between one man and one woman only, on a college campus– I fully support their actions, no matter who they are! There are non-Christian groups that believe in establishing full legal rights of the unborn child, from conception– I support their actions — but not their “core religious beliefs.” I know very little about today’s Catholic groups, led by younger Catholics. “Catholic Answers,” at first glance, looks very good! But I really do not know anything about them. Sounds like a good group, though.
There were stories like this about JPII-how everyone was afraid of him; he had such a bad temper.
The Benedict stories were a continuation from his days as Prefect of the CDF.
They are mostly someone’s interpretation, usually someone who doesn’t like him..
Who cares?
The boss is always mean and/or stupid, according to the employees.
Colossians 3:12-17 Put on then, as God’s chosen ones, holy and beloved, heartfelt compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness, and patience,
bearing with one another and forgiving one another, if one has a grievance against another; as the Lord has forgiven you, so must you also do.
And over all these put on love, that is, the bond of perfection.
And let the peace of Christ control your hearts, the peace into which you were also called in one body. And be thankful.
Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, as in all wisdom you teach and admonish one another, singing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God.
And whatever you do, in word or in deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.
Expect more.
There is an employee of CM that is going to expose what has been going on behind the scenes.
For me, nothing needs to be exposed.
It was all evident from the beginning.
He says about half the employees there had been fighting against the problems there.
We will see what happens.
The Lord is pruning. Stay connected to the vine.
Nothing horrible.
But… a plea for money.
CM? Do you mean Cardinal McElroy?
No.
If your answer is “no,” then you should explain who “CM” is– who are you referring to?
CM=Church Millitant
Oh– Church Militant? I think their leader got in trouble, and was kicked out, or something. They look like a radical right wing group– I don’t care for that. But anyway, was that guy struggling with being gay or something? Not sure. I don’t know much about today’s groups of younger Catholics. One that I do know and follow, is young Lila Rose and her “LiveAction” group– she’s terrific! Very good speaker! Hope her pregnancy goes well– looking forward to her third child being born! Lila had a miscarriage last year– heart-breaking! She has two cute little boys! Well, thanks for explaining “CM!”
Sorry. I thought you were making a joke.
CM is Church Militant, a website that some people subscribe to.
Archbishop Ganswein recently confirmed that Benedict fully considered Pope Francis to be the real pope. Sorry, to all you Benevacantists out there who have beleieved and maybe still do that Benedict’s resignation was invalid.
Just so. And because of this, Benedict did not comment directly about Francis’ reversal of Summorum Pontificum. But Benedict’s reaction to Traditionis custodes was given to Raymond Arroyo by Archbishop Ganswein– words to the effect of “I hope God helps us”–said with a broken heart.
God sure does need to help save the church from the TLM dissidents.
If you are a Catholic, you should appreciate the Church’s great history. Including her beautiful, ancient Latin Tridentine Mass of 1500+ years. Those who do not, all because of one pope’s sick beliefs– are ignorant. When young Catholics grow up and get married, they should be proud to take their children to the beautiful, historic Latin Tridentine Mass– at least once. Every Catholic has a right to this great historical Mass. The current pope hates Catholic history abd tradition– he is a dissident pope. He loves and supports dissidents like Jesuit Fr. James Martin, and Sr. Jeannie Grammick– who promote the LGBTs. The current pope has been very reluctant to punish evil Fr. Marko Rupnik, the serial Nun Rapist. No morals.
There is nothing wrong with the Mass.
There is something wrong with dissent.
Daniel, listen critically.
Are you or they trying to manipulate us in any way?
The pope wields tremendous power– because of the throne he sits on. Many young people are bamboozled by it (especially the commenter, jon) and are tragically manipulated.
He does not sit on a throne.
Protestants think that Catholics are manipulated by the Pope.
No. This has nothing to do with non-Catholics. The Suprene Pontiff, or Sovereign Pontiff, has supreme power as spiritual leader of the Catholic Church, and is not subject to Canon Law– he is above it. Some inexperienced, young, or impressionable Catholics get confused about the papacy, and are then psychologically
manipulated by it, mistaking a pope for a living saint who does whatever God says, is 100% perfect, like God, and has no normal human weaknesses, and does not sin. The true head of the Catholic Church is Jesus Christ, invisibly. All must obey Christ. Even the pope. A pope can and does commit sin. St. Peter committed sin too, when he denied Chrust three times — but he then repented. All popes must regularly go to Confession.
The stuff the Pope does really does not effect the faithful laity that much.
If you are not faithful it does. If you favor abortion or birth control or women priests or stuff like that. The unfaithful talk about that.
I guess now those who enjoy the Latin Mass are now in that group.
When you want something and the Pope has control over it and you are not getting what you want, it becomes an issue, I guess.
Exactly how long have you been Catholic?
I think many younger Catholics have sadly grown up in a world deeply saturated with deviance, sin, filth, and immorality, and religious leaders who accept it all– guiding vast numbers of younger people to accept it all, too. That is definitely an abnormal situation, very wrong! That is why I could never accept deviant Catholic religious leaders– starting with “you know who”– and the extremely deviant “Amoris Laetitia.” Real popes do not write such deviant things. I am just too old for all of that garbage.
“Daniel, listen critically.
Are you or they trying to manipulate us in any way?” If you would expand on your question, it would be helpful. I have no desire to manipulate anyone, so if it appears otherwise to you, please advise me how it is so, and I will correct any manipulative language or thoughts. My apologies in advance.
“Broken heart” for one.
That interview just broke my heart! And poor Pope Benedict– he was such a gentleman, not commenting on the pontificate of his successor! And he was so badly hurt! Broke my heart! No respect given, to either Pope Benedict nor Abp. Ganswein, by PF! Broke my heart! Awful!
I think the outstanding UK Catholic journalists/authors Edward Pentin and Damian Thompson, as well as our outstanding American Catholic EWTN journalist, Raymond Arroyo, are all excellent reporters on Church affairs. They have the accurate news stories on the Pope and what happened with Cardinal Burke– an outstanding Catholic cardinal.
I also think Robert Royal, and Canon Lawyer, Fr. Gerald Murray, of “The Catholic Thing” and Raymond Arroyo’s “Papal Posse,” on EWTN’s “World Over” program, are terrific.
He wasn’t hurt by the moto proprio.
He was saddened.
His attempt to heal a rupture just made it worse.
“Maybe God will help us” meant it is beyond human help.
“He was saddened.
His attempt to heal a rupture just made it worse.” Oh really? Please document that this was the reason for the broken heart. Au contraire,
from Father Z”s blog: Archbp. Georg Gänswein did a video interview with Die Tagespost. He was asked about Benedict’s reaction to the Motu Proprio Traditionis custodes…
Gänswein said that reading that Motu Proprio was a “turning point” for Benedict (Einschnitt, a “crucial event”).
He said that Benedict read it “mit Schmerz im Herzen… with pain in his heart”. Put another way… “it broke his heart”.
Notice the reaction is to the reading of TC. Your argument is that his heart was broken over the failure of Summorum Pontificum. This is not the witness of Abp. Ganswein. Another source: (Bing)
Archbishop Gänswein, in a pre-recorded interview with Der Tagespost, said that he believed Pope Benedict XVI read Traditionis Custodes “with pain in his heart, because he wanted to help those who had found a place in the old Mass, to lead them away from [Archbishop] Lefebvre, and for them to find inner peace, also liturgical peace” He also mentioned that the motu proprio was a “turning point” for Pope Benedict XVI and filled his heart with pain.
Yes.
With pain in his heart is not a broken heart.
And Pope Benedict tried. He lifted the excommunications of Lefebvre’s bishops when they had not repented.
He is the one who, after Summorum Pontificum, wanted an evaluation.
It made things worse.
The errors of the SSPX and sedevacantists and others who reject Vatican II spread.
And they were getting worse.
We noticed it here on this website.
Pope Benedict was a great pope, outstanding– a true Catholic leader. Absolutely outstanding! Young Catholics of today’s era, who just read website material, have no comprehension of Pope Benedict, nor any understanding of his dealings with the SSPX, nor his “Summorum Pontificum,” nor anything else. Too young, “know-it-alls” very limited Catholic education, very limited intellects, no experience nor comprehension. Pope Benedict’s successor is a sad joke, by comparison.
“With pain in his heart is not a broken heart.”: Both assertions are put in quotes in Fr. Z’s blog, as if they are words used by Ganswein to describe Benedict’s reaction to reading TC. As for the statement: “He is the one who, after Summorum Pontificum, wanted an evaluation,” I was under the distinct impression that rather it was Pope Francis that wanted an evaluation and when he sent out a survey the results were never published, perhaps for obvious reasons. If I have my facts wrong, please cite Benedict on the matter, and thanks in advance.
In line with the initiative of my Venerable Predecessor Benedict XVI to invite the bishops to assess the application of the Motu Proprio Summorum Pontificum three years after its publication, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith carried out a detailed consultation of the bishops in 2020. The results have been carefully considered in the light of experience that has matured during these years.
TC third paragraph
The citation from CT only obscures the issue for me. Ganswein refers to Benedict’s painful, broken heart on reading TC. This was what I was trying to establish, against the idea that Benedict’s sadness was on the failure of SP. TC here declares that Benedict invited the bishops to evaluate SP, but that the evaluation happened long after in 2020. The results of that evaluation have never been published, and one has to wonder why this is the case. Had the survey substantially bolstered Francis’ opposition to SP, surely the results would have been made known. In fact, Diane Montagna reported there was a great deal of positivity associated with the survey: “Nearly two-thirds of bishops responding to the CDF survey on the TLM were “on board with staying the course…. The message was basically to leave Summorum Pontificum alone, and continue with a prudent and careful application.” See https://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/articles/item/5633-traditionis-custodes-separating-fact-from-fiction.
And here is a central point that seems to have been overlooked: If Benedict’s heart was broken in reading TC, it stands to reason that he was blindsided by the Motu Proprio and did not expect it to reverse SP. I highly doubt he was saddened that SP only exacerbated tensions within the Church.
Obviously, The Remnant is not a good source of info and I am not clicking on it.
I do not know, they do not know, you do not know.
Archbishop Ganwein, who was there, says he made no comment. But his impression was that Benedict was saddened.
So there is an assumption on one person’s part of an emotion of Benedict and then we make assumptions as to why.
But honestly, it is 100% percent irrelevant.
Unless you are trying to sell a book, I guess.
Just for a moment-let’s say that Pope Benedict did have a broken heart.
So what?
You are getting sucked in to the TMZ-ing of the Church.
I really cannot make out what Archbishop Ganswein says about his impression of Benedict’s heart in the interview with Raymond Arroyo.
But he does not say broken.
I am not interpreting it the way that others do.
The story from unofficial Italian translations is different than what he said in the interview.
Furthermore, I invite you, dear Brothers, to send to the Holy See an account of your experiences, three years after this Motu Proprio has taken effect. If truly serious difficulties come to light, ways to remedy them can be sought.
July 2007 Pope Benedict XVI Letter to the Bishops of the World on Summorum Pontificum
Thanks! Were results of this survey ever published?
It has never been made public if bishops gave him feedback, as far as I know.
TC mentions a survey 10 years later in 2020.
Daniel, please remember. This is Pope Benedict. Joseph Ratzinger. This is not a nostalgic old woman.
He was one of the great intellects of our day. He was one of the advisors at Vatican II. He believed in Vatican II and was trying to have a renewal of it when he was Pope. He talked a lot about the hermeneutic of continuity as opposed to the hermeneutic of rupture. He did not say the TLM after becoming Pope. Father Claude Barthe said that he tried to get him to say a low Mass but he would not.
I think everybody wanted it to work. The problem was not the Mass. It was the errors that were introduced or spread through the community, maybe through the Internet but also person to person.
“This is not a nostalgic old woman.” Thanks for the heads-up. But even this great intellect can have a broken heart as I think, in reading TC, he saw Pope Francis as the great apostle of the hermeneutic of rupture.
You see things the way you see things.
It is not ok to lie about people.
Dan, this is the dumb stuff. Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI never commented on Pope Francis.
Archbishop Ganswein, his personal secretary attests to this and say “It was very intelligent.”
It is not fait to either of those men to try to pit them against each other.
It was not reality.
I know some people wish it was.
I guess they have some need for drama or they don’t like Pope Francis for whatever reason. I would say it is a fault in them. When you are a faithful Catholic, it does not matter who is Pope. They are all the Vicar of Christ.
An old man taking away another old man’s pension and housing privileges as winter approaches is petty. Worse, it was not even a direct hit, but came through the rumor mill.
But! The Pope did not use the words “my” and “enemy,” cried Austen Ivereigh, with a bonus attack: “It was conveniently in line with the traditionalist narrative of a merciless, vindictive pope who recklessly and unreasonably ‘punishes’ those who disagree with him.”
Sorry, Ivereigh, the backwardists have nothing to do with it.
Glad you didn’t totally got scooped, Mr. Lawler.
It is quite disappointing and, frankly, wrong that the Pope spoke to a reporter about the matter before speaking with the Cardinal involved.That seems to defy our Lord’s words in Matthew 18:15-16, at least the spirit of them. Even a good secular boss or ruler should speak directly with an involved subordinate (? in this case) before speaking with others. I’m pretty certain my bishop would speak with me directly about an issue, before going to the press (even if the press came to him). A primary role of the Pope is unity and strengthening his fellow bishops (Luke 22:32). I don’t see how his actions and words lately, specifically in this case, help further that mission. Lord, have mercy on us all.
Ron Conte has the best compilation of the CM problems.
Excellent. The sordid details are appalling. CM should disintegrate and cease to exist. Gay is the source of so much evil and corruption and hypocrisy in the church.
Wait…what?
His “apartment” was 5000 square feet?
That is bigger than most houses in the US.
What?
You do not understand. Most buildings in Rome and all of Europe, are not modern. They are centuries old, built totally differently than modern buildings, and have to be fitted with modern plumbing and electricity, for starters. Cardinal Burke may not use the whole space, of his apt.– it may have offices, or be used for other purposes. Many older homes in America, built before the modern era, and older flats (apts.) in the SF Bay Area, built in the late 19th/early 20th centuries– plus the Victorian and Edwardian homes and buildings, in SF– were built very differently than modern homes and buildings.
Your post is just a bunch of non sequiturs.
At age 75, the highly esteemed Cardinal Burke is eligible for 5 more years, to cast a vote in the next conclave, to elect the next Pope. He is also eligible, as a member of the College of Cardinals– to be nominated and possibly selected, as the next Pope.
Any baptized male may be elected pope. You don’t have to be a cardinal. Nobody is nominated to be pope. The cardinal electors each simply vote for their baptized male of choice in every round of balloting until someone receives the necessary number of votes to be elected.
More non sequiturs.
He is not being evicted. He is being asked to pay rent of 4000 euros a month. I paid twice that for a house 1/2 that size in California over 15 years ago.
And just who do you think you are, comparing yourself to a great, big, important, famous, outstanding senior Cardinal of the Roman Catholic Church, former Prefect of the Supreme Tribunal of the Apostolic Signatura (and is still a member if it, though now retired) —- one of the world’s foremost Canon Lawyers and theologians, of the Vatican? Just who do you think you are, California kid?
Nobody should get a free lunch.
A renter.
Sorry-my math.
It was not twice that but it was that plus 20%
I am going to change my name to I do not understand.
Please subscribe to Michael Lofton’s YouTube channel REASON & THEOLOGY. He does a great job separating rumors from facts on issues like this. The video he posted today with former CM employee Dave Gordon was particularly informative. It is entitled “We Owe the Pope and the Bishops a Sincere Apology”.
I googled Rules for Retrogrades (in the background of David Gordon’s video stream) and it comes up Timothy Gordon, who is apparently his brother.
This is from the Pillar (which has become one of the more trustable sites)
https://www.pillarcatholic.com/p/ask-your-husband-or-his-brother-controversial
Looks like young Catholics mistakenly adopting radicalism of he far right, totally misunderstand basic truths of Man and Woman, Husband and Wife, Masculinity and Femininity. The two genders are not in a false competition with each other– God did not create them that way, nor for one gender– Man– to sin, and egotistically, ignorantly bully Woman– just because he is bigger and stronger, physically. No, God created Man and Woman to beautifully COMPLEMENT each other! Each gender is endowed with natural gifts! A man’s ladership and protection of his family– out of love and responsibility for them– is normal and natural! He would lay down his life for them, if called to do so– like Jesus Christ! The husband must lead his family, in a Christ-like manner. The wife loves and nurtures and serves her husband and children, in a feminine, womanly– and Christ-like- manner, like the Blessed Mother loved, nurtured, and served St. Joseph and the Holy Child, Jesus, in the Holy Family. She was Queen of the family home, caring for the needs of their domestic life, lovingly. St. Joseph was the leader and protector and provider, in his carpentry trade, for Mary and the Holy Child, Jesus. He was guided to take the Holy Family to safety, in the Flight into Egypt. In our Catholic Faith, Marriage is a Sacrament, with Christ at the center. The Holy Family is our beautiful Role Model, for Catholic Marriage.
I want to give a huge shout out to Michael Voris for this one choice of behavior. When anyone said anything about him (at least online) he never clapped back.
It is admirable but it has a down side also.
When I tried to alert people that he was a person who needed help, most people ignored me but one person addressed me as judgmental and a bad Catholic because once they had been sick and he reached out to them to see how they were doing and that made him a good Christian.
One-dimensional thinking like that never helps.
If you have ever tried to get help for a substance abuser or alcoholic or even a sexual predator, you run into that a lot. “We are the good people who don’t accuse people of things” and “you are the mean, judgmental person who is not worthy of the name of Christian.”
Clarence Kelly of SSPV passed away a few days ago.
Can we pray for his soul?
This is an honest question.
Can we pray for the soul of this person?
We should always pray daily for the deceased. Have a Mass said for your friend, too.
I don’t think you understand the question.
I am a subscriber to Cardinal Burke’s website. I have followed him for many years, ever since he was Bishop of his native Diocese of La Crosse, Wisconsin (1995-2004), and was beloved by many faithful Catholics there. Would love to someday visit and attend Mass, at the beautiful, traditionally-designed, Shrine of Our Lady of Guadalupe, which Cardinal Burke built in La Crosse. The photos of the holy Shrine are just beautiful. La Crosse is a beautiful city, on the Mississippi River– just like St. Louis, Missouri, where Cdl. Burke later served as Archbishop (2004-2008).
Bishop Strickland is continuing with the weekly “Bishop Strickland Hour” with Terry Barber, on Virgin Most Powerful Radio. He also started a new YouTube channel on Nov. 28th, which I appreciate very much. And he also has his website, BishopStrickland.com, now as Bishop emeritus of Tyler, Texas. He is an outstanding, deeply dedicated catechist, for Christ. Love to hear him speak! Love to look at a refrigerator magnet I bought last year, from a lady in Texas, a Catholic mom with several young children. The magnet is beautifully designed and says, “Don’t mess with Texas Bishops! I stand with Bishop Strickland!” She’s also got beautifully-designed coffee mugs, nice T-shirts, and bumper stickers, with the same message. I only buy beautifully-designed things like that, something that looks really classy and is well-made– even if I have to pay more. Would love to send one of these trinkets to Cardinal Pierre and the Pope– but I won’t. I wrote to Cdl. Pierre and Cdl. DiNardo on the fateful day the “wicked deed was done,” for the pope, and briefly expressed my deep sorrow at this dishonest decision. I was very respectful– and full of tears. But God will bring great good out of it, somehow– He always does! May God be glorified.
According to EWTN’s “World Over Live,” and LifeSite News, the staff of the Diocese of Tyler were informed that Bishop Strickland is not allowed to say Mass in the Diocese of Tyler– but there has been no proper, correct canonical process, to properly establish good reasons to justify such a decision– it is all petty, babyish, and unlawful. Totally unjust, setting aside Canon Law. Apparently, Bishop Strickland was not informed of this decision– he just left to go on retreat to a Benedictine monastery in Oklahoma. Also, it is of course unlawful to arbitrarily withhold a Cardinal’s rightful retirement salary– which he has rightly, justly earned (referring to Cdl. Burke). A cleric’s salary and old age pension is not based on “personal favors” of “a personal friend,” in the pope. Babyish! Extremely evil! Plus, Catholic clerics are all underpaid– not paid market-rate salaries— and cannot afford expensive, market-rate prices for an apt. to live in, in a very expensive city, like Rome. That is why the Church was helping clerics working for the Church, living in Rome, to help them pay for a place to live. All of the current evils in the Church must be purged.
No such order was given to Bishop Strickland.
Apparently not true.
https://www.pillarcatholic.com/p/strickland-not-barred-from-offering
The initial story on LifeSite had an unnamed source and no verification, even from Bishop Strickland.
A reporter just asked Bishop Strickland if he was not allowed to say Mass in his Diocese, the Diocese of Tyler. He said that no one told him that, but he was advised to leave the Diocese of Tyler, and go elsewhere. Bishop Strickland deserves respect.
I have been participating in an annual Novena for the Feast of the Immaculate Conception– of course, the Feast Day is on Friday, Dec. 8th.– I especially love all the Marian Feast Days. Also, I have been participating in an annual Novena to Ven. Abp. Fulton J. Sheen– my favorite — Dec. 1-9th. His Feast Day, deemed by the Vatican, is on Dec. 9th, the day he died, in 1979. Oh, I was so sad, so full of tears, on that day, in 1979. But I know that Abp. Sheen’s soul was happy, and was with God.