Last I checked, Bishop Barron’s interview with Shia LaBeouf had almost 1.5 million views on YouTube and thousands of comments. I was impressed to see how many people in the comments mention their being profoundly inspired by LaBeouf. One was encouraged enough by his testimony to “pray the rosary for the first time since elementary school,” and many others say that they are returning to Mass after long being absent, some even mention wanting to attend the Latin Mass (and one of these a Protestant!). Let us hope that LaBeouf’s impact will be a lasting one for a Church in need.
Why, then, did Bishop Barron come across as somewhat reluctant to really delve into the heart of LaBeouf’s conversion? I mean, of course, the role that the Latin Mass played. It is no secret that the current pontiff has, for some reason or other, chosen to do battle with the traditionalists and the Tridentine Rite for the sake of “unity” (he and Biden seem to be on the same page—strength through unity!), so we can understand why Barron squirmed when LaBeouf mentioned (repeatedly) that it was the Latin Mass that brought him into the Faith.
Whenever LaBeouf was about to peel back another layer to his conversion experience, Barron would retreat. I assume that most viewers, like me, were captivated by LaBeouf’s honesty and candor and hung on his words. Barron’s rhetorical pirouetting was, therefore, something of a letdown and seemed, at times, to prevent LaBeouf from finishing his thoughts. Was this intentional?
In a way, this interaction between Barron and LaBeouf represents a microcosm of the Church today. Barron, to be sure, is on the “conservative” side within the Church hierarchy, in that he is not actively pushing a woke political agenda. However, he is one of the Boomer churchmen who come across as generally unaware of the real reasons why people are leaving the Faith in droves and why younger generations are not drawn to the Church.
A couple of years ago, at the General Assembly of the United States Catholic Conference of Bishops, Barron laid out a five-step plan for bringing young people back to the Church. None of his prescriptions, however, recommend that which finally converted LaBeouf. He mentions the “way of justice,” “missionary outreach,” and “creative new use of media”—but these were hardly more than fluffy talking points for a room full of bishops who more and more resemble the out-of-touch, globe-trotting elites of the political sphere.
Barron’s suggestion to the bishops to “beef up the intellectual content of our religion classes” may be somewhat helpful—most Catholics are almost completely ignorant of what the Faith actually teaches (I was one of these). However, as LaBeouf points out, Padre Pio “didn’t touch people through profundities” but by appealing to the imagination through his own witness to Christ. He is still moving people in this way, as LaBeouf’s conversion attests. More than an increase in rational understanding of the Faith, what is needed is a better way of capturing the imagination—reclaiming it from the powerful grip of militant progressivism and sentimental romanticism.
Barron is on the right path when he highlights the role of beauty in this regard. The Sistine Chapel and Dante, for example, show the Faith rather than explain it, he says. “How beautiful are our churches? How beautiful are our liturgical spaces?” (Notice that he does not say “the liturgy.”) He is aware of the power of the Church’s rich aesthetic tradition, but like his discussion with LaBeouf, he draws back from confronting the full implications of his insight, which would lead to a reconsideration of the very unaesthetic choices that have been made in the Church over the last 60 years.
Look no further than the Vatican’s “nativity” displayed during Christmas 2020. Churches built after the Council look much like their drab, lifeless Protestant counterparts—and the same could be said of many Novus Ordo liturgies when they aren’t trying to resuscitate the form with bubbles and guitar blessings. Yet this desire to bring life back to the Church (literally and figuratively) illustrates just how out of touch many priests and prelates of the Boomer generation are.
For Barron’s part, he suggests we make church websites more beautiful. On one level, Barron gets it, hence his mention of Dante and Flannery O’Connor. In a moment of candor, Barron admits to LaBeouf what a failure was the post-1960s decision to advise priests to discuss their “experiences” over the Bible. But at the same time, Barron is beholden to the post-Vatican II belief that the liturgy and the churches ought to try to accommodate themselves to the times, to go digital, to create a nice app!
Do young people really find satisfaction in the virtual hellscape, or are they hoping for something more? One of the most moving moments of Barron’s interview is when LaBeouf discusses the challenge of representing the sacrifice of the Mass on camera. The weight of it, LaBeouf says, at times was too much. He would pray with Br. Alex, whom he brought to Italy and who became his close friend. He would tell him he loved him and they would pray together to be guided through the scene. It was the Latin Mass, LaBeouf says, that drew him “out of the realm of the intellectual” and put him in the realm of “feeling.” He felt as if he was “being let in on something that is very special.”
This is precisely why LaBeouf made Barron so uncomfortable. LaBeouf’s conversion suggests that all of the five-step plans and compassionate platitudes about “meeting people where they are” will not do, that the aggiornamento failed. Beating the drum of “modernization” and “freshening up” manifests as the Church trying to be something it is not; because, ultimately, it cannot conform to modernity if it is to retain the message of Christ. The churchmen who try to push this end up looking like car salesmen, to paraphrase LaBeouf.
It is the more orthodox and traditional Christian communities that refuse to stray from the difficult message of repentance, combined with the message of joy that attends the life rightly lived, that are growing amidst this crisis of the “nones.” Four years ago, the chapel where my family first began attending the Latin Mass was only about half full on any given Sunday. Today, the overflow room is nearly full. I have heard that same story from others I know in parishes across the country. And the pews of these traditional Masses are filling with young people—couples engaged, young families, and big families. My Orthodox friends report a similar trend at the Divine Liturgies they attend….
The above comes from a Sept. 13 posting by Emily Finley in Crisis magazine.
This is a classic management error.
Most of you won’t get this but as I am old and only can relate to movies or TV shows… Barron’s convo w Shia sorta reminds me of a scene from the movie Moneyball. Billy Beane and the scouts are talking thru prospects. And, the scouts say things like, “he has a great swing” or “he’s big and fast, a great hitter”. Billy Beane keeps after them saying, “if he’s a good hitter why doesn’t he hit good”?
This is the question for Baron and others here who keep claiming the the NO can be done with reverent music and liturgy. So, here I am as Billy Beane. If the NO is so good, why doesn’t it produce good Catholics or any for that matter?
This argument from “that” is fundamentally flawed, and abhorrent. It’s like saying “If the TLM is good, why does it produce divisive Catholics?” Folks, the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass offered in whatever form does not “produce” bad nor divisive Catholics. Evil and divisiveness is found in the heart. The Holy Mass is a remedy for both, if a person is repentant and open to God’s graces. I must protest the words of “that” here.
You are judging the Mass on the sinners that attend it?
Good thing you weren’t at the Last Supper.
I never watch Youtube videos or social media, but reading the previous article about this encounter between Bishop Barron and Shia Lebouf was very intriguing, and positive, that Bishop Barron, who represents all that is good about the Vatican II, the attempt to reach the modern world, yet, hold on and present to the world the truth of our Catholic Tradition, philosophicaly, theologically, scripturally,n the moral implications, and this young man who has grown up in the modern world, and struggled, and questioned, and has hurt others and been hurt because of the ease to fall into error of the designs of the modern world, like St Augustine who comes to a deeper faith due the death, and pain therof, of his friend, Lebouf comes to a deeper faith not only in how the Latin Mass draws one into Christ’s Sacrivice, but his encounter with Padre Pio, his genuine desire for what is true that Padre Pio lived, and the accompaniment of the religious brothers and priests of that monastery that he would visit (even sleeping in his car nearby)
I then went on and watched, and listened, to this youtube interview, and, as mentioned here, the searing search for truth, and honesty of Shia is what comes through, first being, the depth of his feelings of shame, and hurt, and realization that others, even St Francis, came to the Lord, especially through the wounds of Christ, in this way, then it is through the person of Padre Pio, and the celebration of the Latin Mass, and also, the accompaniment, and understanding, of the priests and brothers of the monastery. That Bishop Barron recognized this, and reached out and sought this encounter, is very hopeful for The Church and how The Church can reach out to the world, and serve those in need
Father there was NOTHING good about Vatican 2… it has proven to be a complete failure
Wrong is bohemond. When listening to the detractors of Vatican II explain their objections to it, such as the beloved SSPX and the groups who look up to them, I found their objections fundamentally specious. An example is their objections to “Dignitatis humane.”
“Yawn”
bohemond, if you have an open mind, might you consider a few things? There are too many to mention in an internet post. For starters: the decree on the laity (tha all people, including the lay faithful, are called to holiness), that Latin should have pride of place in in our liturgies, that modern means of communication should be used to spread the gospel, the three-year lectionary cycle that exposes most Catholics to most of the Bible, the starting of new (and orthodox) religious orders and that the Scriptures are the Word of God and should be given their proper place and attention at Mass, I’m not denying many terrible things that happened after the Council. But, it seems you’ve fallen for the the post hoc fallacy ( “post hoc ergo propter hoc,” meaning “after this, therefore because of this”). To say there was nothing good about Vatican II (and virtually shouting it in all capital letters) is simply not true. Stay on the Ark, my friend! Even though it stinks at times, jumping overboard from either the right or left side is not good. Don’t let some pirates drive you overboard.
Please dont give me Vatican 2 is not problem, its end results have been a disaster . This post hoc ergo propter hoc,” is NOT a fallacy how much more proof do you require in order to see it. Dear God in heaven the Church has been in auto destruct mode since the 70’s we have an apostate on the See of Peter. The Ark is sinking, the Church in Germany wants sodomy approved and silence from Rome,. we have homosexual syndicate, yet all will be well, Sorry I am black pilled I see no hope at least in human form, Faith is thinning, anger is building.. perhaps wrath is the answer.. or going sede
The aim of this narrative is to discredit the present Magisterium, to identify things in the Church as “doom and gloom.” For what purpose? They don’t submit to the authority of the Magisterium because they don’t happen to like the tradition that is being handed down to the Church. Don’t buy into it, people.
I mean, just read what is wrongly being written above: as if Vatican II is responsible for the excesses of the German bishops, for instance or for the abuses. They’d love to make a false association and causality between Vatican II and the scandals, in order to discredit the most recent Ecumenical Council of Vatican II.
Calling the Pope an apostate is the sin of sacrilege.
“Yawn”
It is the more orthodox and traditional Christian communities that refuse to stray from the difficult message of repentance, combined with the message of joy that attends the life rightly lived, that are growing amidst this crisis of the “nones.” Four years ago, the chapel where my family first began attending the Latin Mass was only about half full on any given Sunday.
No they just stray from the Church.
Chapel? Red Flag!
As with many things Catholic, it is not either/or, it’s both/and. We don’t have to choose between “missionary outreach” and “creative new use of media” or traditional liturgy. Let’s do both. Let’s not needlessly divide when we’re all facing forces that seek to destroy the Church.
We had this in the ’80s in my parish. There were a lot of converts and reverts who wanted Catholicism and there were old people who were still sick of things from before Vatican II and wanted new things.
That is why the Church follows Christ, not the people. The Holy Spirit guides the Church.
https://www.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_18051986_dominum-et-vivificantem.html
In my experience the faithful who stay with the Church have an awareness of the presence of God and the reality of Jesus being the incarnation of God and all that that entails. But many who have left the Church also accept this. It’s just the Church is pursuing things extraneous for them – Vatican Two, etc.
Do you know better than God? As he ordains it thus, why do you desire it differently? Can his wisdom and goodness be deceived? . .
Abandonment to Divine Providence
Bobby was uncomfortable because Shia is a real man. And now, Praise God, a real Catholic.