The following comes from a Sept. 9 story on Catholic World Report.
You’re probably witnessing liturgical abuses when the woman in the pew behind you asks out loud, “What the hell is he doing?”
This happened at a funeral. A visiting celebrant (at a parish that I do not belong to) left the sanctuary before we prayed the Our Father. He repositioned people in the front few pews and lead the prayer while holding the hands of various family members and pall bearers, even though the coffin was in the way. This followed and preceded other changes to the liturgy that brought too much attention to the celebrant, confused the family, frustrated the servers, and had the rest of us wondering what would happen next.
Funeral liturgies should be what they are intended to be: powerful moments of transcendence that point us to questions that only faith in Jesus Christ can answer—questions about death and life, sin and salvation, humanity and God. The faithful, the lapsed, and the uninitiated should experience in ways proper to each the promises and mysteries of revelation.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches that “[t]he death of a member of the community…is an event that should lead beyond the perspectives of this world and should draw the faithful into the true perspective of faith in the risen Christ” (par 1687).
….There are understandable pastoral temptations to suggest instant sainthood—especially if the preacher knew the deceased well. But putting to one side the Church’s lengthy investigations of the miraculous, we typically aren’t privy to a person’s particular judgment. This implies a more pressing pastoral need to preach the truth….
Funeral homilies that promise sainthood over the more likely need for purgatory may discourage the living from praying for the dead. They also force the poorly catechized and the uninitiated to choose between what little they know of heaven and what they fear most about hell. And often, as Sandy demonstrated, no matter how many times a loved one hears that the deceased is in heaven, it is understandable if they spend the rest of their lives secretly wondering otherwise.
On the other extreme, should the faithful and the lapsed (who may only attend Mass at funerals) hear over and again that everyone goes to heaven, why wouldn’t they think that the same applies to them and those they love, like their spouses and children?
….Then there is the expectation that when we die we become angels. No matter what is revealed in the Gospel or spoken in the Eucharistic prayers, the poorly catechized often add pleasant but gnostic imagery of souls becoming not like angels, but actual angels—beings who are and who will remain pure spirit and intellect and have no need of physical bodies.
Thus what we know about being human—of having a body and a soul—contrasts with the expectation that our eternal rest will include only half of who we are, or were. And that comes with uncomfortable implications. If by the grace of God we do meet our loved ones after our death, such a gnostic version of heaven offers no hope of ever hugging them again or enjoying the goodness of creation’s physicality.
I know from the death of my long paralyzed, bed-ridden aunt that there is comfort in knowing that one’s broken body is no longer a cause of suffering. Thus we speak of “being released” from our fallen bodily existence. But this does not imply that this separation is a good and intended end for all eternity. No wonder so many Catholics—even among the practicing—are forgetting our promised rise in eternal, bodily glory.
….A common refrain among the lay faithful and even some celebrants is that death has some intended place in God’s plan. “God has a purpose for this,” we hear well-meaning friends tell an inconsolable widow, as if God takes pleasure in the consequences of sin.
Lost is the understanding that the only death ordained by God—the only one that can bring eternal salvation—is the death of Jesus Christ. All others deaths, our own included, are not of divine origin.
Again, there are pastoral inclinations to tell shocked survivors that good can come from the death of a loved one. But this is different than implying that death is necessary or that the cosmos will somehow be better off because your teenage daughter died of bone cancer….
I’ve noticed that many funerals at many parishes are accompanied musically by “On Eagles’ Wings” and “I Am the Bread of Life.” Families probably demand this music because that is all they have ever heard at funerals.
And while I’ve watched only one celebrant rearrange people in the front pews to hold their hands, many do preach Masses of Canonization. They might even tell us that the deceased, who is now an angel, is making spaghetti in heaven with their mother, father, spouse, and anyone they ever knew and loved—not that I would have anything against a heavenly banquet that includes pasta, but there are other things that need to be stressed, things about salvation, which we find only in the Gospels and hear the Eucharistic Prayers.
Many funerals offer a eulogy. If so, we will likely hear an understandably emotional but uncatechized friend or relative tell funny stories about the deceased. After we all laugh, they may instruct us that God has brought the deceased home through willing the terrible evil of death. Sadly, many may remember only these words….
To read the entire story, click here.
Another example of the anything goes mentality of the Church, post Vatican II. It is all about the instant canonization of the deceased. You know “Uncle Bob” is in a “better place”, “he’s with the angels”, “he’s watching over us”, “he’s giving Jesus a high five”, etc etc. Never mind that at his funeral all gathered should be praying for the man’s eternal soul. But sadly, most Catholics just want to have fun at Mass and get all warm and fuzzy inside.
One has to wonder why author William L. Patenaude wrote this story? Just to stir the pot? Does it somehow expiate the hatred he must feel?
Get over it already.
Yes, it’s extremely sad to experience or read about REAL abuses and REAL irregularities (and not mere differences of legitimate preferences) at ANY Mass. But to obsess about it at the level Mr. Patenaude must is downright unhealthy.
Your statement is wrong, Rodda.
All Masses MUST adhere to GIRM (General Instruction of the Roman Missal) which can be found on the Vatican web site as well as the USCCB web site.
No Priest has the authority to change anything.
This is also true of Masses for the Dead.
Chapter VIII gives the requirements for Masses of the Dead.
https://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20030317_ordinamento-messale_en.html
We must all start demanding that the Holy Mass be properly said, in order to bring Souls to God and His Church. And to give God the respect due to Him alone.
Report abuses to the Diocese Bishop, and if that does not work to the US Papal Nuncio and the Vatican.
Since only God knows if someone has gone straight to Heaven, is spending time in Purgatory, or is in Hell for eternity – – – during the eulogy we should all be asked to pray for the Soul of the deceased.
It is sinful to presume anything – other than of a canonized Saint.
Families can ask for Masses for the deceased in lieu of flowers.
Apparently Rodda, like so many others, seem to have an aversion to the truth. If we would only remember the last 4 things: Death, Judgement, Heaven and Hell, perhaps many souls would be spared the awful fate of eternal damnation. A funeral should be a time of prayer for mercy, forgiveness and for the expiation of our dead loved one’s sins. Useless feel good fluff is of the devil; make no mistake.
I’m afraid its not Rodda’s fault nor others…the church has watered down many of these traditions…that is why you have these matters of divided indifference’s… Its very sad and I consider it a tragedy! I feel for the priests who have helped with all these indifference for not doing their job well, especially feel more for their superiors for permitting the watered down tragedies. and their supperiors etc etc….they will be held responsible and also the lazy Catholics who are lazy about learning their faith better….
“The wages of sin are death”. Please remember our God loves us. its not the ritual that Catholicism devised that saves. Its Gods love and his grace. It is not traditional ritual that has been watered down. Its Gods Truth That has been confused by such liugical argument. Please come to know more of your bible and Jesus’ written word the Truth.
How long, O Lord, do we have to listen to these terrible and awful songs! There may be some biblical background to these and other modern hymns, but nevertheless, they are terrible tunes. Hymns and sacred music must be directed towards God, and not be man centered. We should be praying for the repose of the soul of the dead, and not canonizing this person. Another horrible hymn is ‘Amazing grace’. We are NOT saved until death comes, because it is at that last moment of our lives that determines whether we go to Heaven, Hell or Purgatory. Chant was supposed to be re-introduced into the Mass with the new translations of 2011, but this has not occurred. Until the Mass and all other liturgical celebrations become theocentric, and not homocentric, these ungodly and sacrilegious abuses will continue unabated.
Yes, Fr. Karl, WE are not the bread of life — Jesus Christ is.
Fr. Karl, I always appreciate your posts on this forum. However, as jcc pointed out below, On Eagles Wings is taken from Psalm 91. Why would you have an objection to it? Would it be the tune? I have a priest friend, and he too abhors this song. I am at a loss as to why!
Father, you are so right. I cringe at these terrible songs. I pray that it will change soon. Thank you for speaking the truth!
I will pray for you.
As one who has attended far too many funerals, as a former Honor Guard member during the Viet Nam era, I can say the following: The purpose of a funeral is to console the living, nothing more. To proselytize during a funeral, has only negative results.
The hymn ” On Eagles Wings ” is based upon Ps 91 and Isaiah 40:31. To say it is improper at a funeral is to say Scripture is improper.
There is a time for orthodoxy, but a funeral is a time for consolation.
The purpose of a MASS is not to console the living – but to pray for the salvation of the Soul of the deceased.
Mike, you’ve got it wrong.
That’s like saying for a married couple, the only reason to have sex is to produce more children — also wrong.
The Catholic Church teaches that lovemaking between wife and husband is for new life, but also for their greater happiness and union AS A COUPLE.
Even so, the Catholic Church teaches that the celebration of the Funeral Rites is for the consolation of the bereaved, as well as praying for the dead person.
That is not true.
You see MIKE how you have someone by the post name Western Schnieder disagree with you. and you quoted nothing but the truth about the CCC and the GIRM. But they still oppose because we lack authority, the authority to correct their error. Westtern needs to show us the facts not just his protest.
Luckily when my dear mother passed, I took control of everything,, none of this nonsense Panis Angelicus and Immaculate Mary were her songs…this article is standard fare for a Church in ruins
The Roman Catholic Church is NOT in ruins, but is guided by the risen Lord Jesus Christ, and will continue to be guided by Him until His glorious return.
The members of the Church will sometimes make mistakes (e.g., saying the Church is in ruin; canonizing a dead person at every funeral), but the Church is the glorious Bride of Christ.
People who forget this run the risk of seeing the Catholic Church as merely some social club, like the Moose Lodge, or the Rotary Club, which they either vote for or against.
Interesting that you show “On Eagle’s Wings”. This is generally a staple at the funeral Masses of “gay” Catholics, especially if they were activists and died of AIDS. Oh, yes, they are always canonized, including the “gay” priests.
I do not hold hands during the Our Father, nor do I shake hands. I nod pleasantly at those nearby and refocus on the Mass. At a funeral Mass we should pray for the deceased person’s soul and all the souls in purgatory. For the benefit of any non-Catholics present, and for the poorly catechized Catholics, the priest might explain what purgatory is how merciful God is to have purgatory for those of us who have not atoned for all of our sins. At least, I hope people would pray for my soul. Remember when prayer cards were given to people as they exited the church after the funeral?
In my grade school, the 8th graders would be called on to sing in Latin the Mass of the Dead for parishoner’s funerals. I remember vividly the casket being cloaked in black and black vestments on the priest. I don’t remember when all that changed to white. Perhaps this is the reason so much attention is now focused on resurrection rather than purgation.
Most people DO go to Heaven, even if that my seem like heresy on this site. Judgemental folks always think the worst about people, but positive faith filled people always think the best. At a funeral, judgemental people are conveinced that the dedeased in boiling in oil in purgatory so they can feel better about themselves. Judgemental folks always assume that THEY are saved but nobody else is. Sometime judgemental Catholics spend too much time listening to evangelical TV preachers who thump the Bible on salvation and preach hellfire and damnation. Boring! A funeral is a time to remember the deceased and the live lived, comfort the grieving, pray for all , and recommit their lives to Christian service. Praying for the deceased is noble, but he doctrine of Purgatory is one of the more controversial in the Catholic book of beliefs. Judgmental folks all focus on how much of a sinner the deceased was, while the rest of the congregation is praying, comforting, and being positive. Big difference…
Then the Lord Jesus must have been really judgemental when he said, “Enter the narrow gate. The gate that leads to damnation is wide, the road is clear, and many choose to travel it. But narrow is the gate that leads to life (eternal) , how rough the road, and how few there are who find it. Be on your guard against false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but underneath are wolves on the prowl.” Matthew 7:14, NAB. I do not know about you, good cause, but by the grace of God I want to stay on the “straight and narrow”, and I will not tell anyone else otherwise lest I become a false prophet. The Three Last Things, according to the teachings of the Church, are heaven, hell and purgatory.
A very holy priest I know once told his brother priest that when he dies; if he is in Purgatory, and they preach he is in Heaven, he will come back and haunt them!
Of course so called good cause is better than this holy Missionary priest!
May God have mercy on an amoral USA!
Viva Cristo Rey!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
Kenneth Fisher, contrary to what good cause might think, I have told my family not to canonize me at my death unless the Church does. I need their prayers.
And the Church never canonizes immediately after death, so we all need prayers not canonization. People can have a eulogy at the Rosary or some small mention of the some good things the deceased has done by the priest at the Mass, but there should be NO canonization.
I’m confused here…what’s all this talk about canonizing? I have never heard of people doing that to the ordinary? I thought we are to pray for the dead, I don’t even know why this came about here. Canonoizing the dead? I don’t get it. I though the Pope was the only one that can do this? I guess I am not knowledgeable on that process.
Abeca Christian, it is when a priest, family member or friend give a eulogy and has the person already enjoying the joys of heaven, instead of saying something such as we hope Our Lord accepts Uncle Bob, etc. into his heavenly kingdom. It is especially appalling when the person has not lived a very good life.
Anne T thank you I am now getting it. So if I said that they are in a better place, by that I mean that they are now in God’s hands but we must still pray for their salvation and may God welcome him or her into His kingdom or can I say I trust in God and pray for His salvation…something like that, is that OK? I guess we often find people saying things because we don’t want to offend or hurt the person that is grieving. I pray not to be guilty of that. I appreciate this dialogue, it does help shine light into what is now being desensitized or it may help us to better understand our behaviors that we often do out of habit without realizing that we are offending God. God help us…..Thanks everyone. God bless you : )
“, but positive faith filled people always think the best” very few of saints had this happy talk attitude…and no not most people make it to heaven, the presumption of God’s mercy is a mortal sin, you are poorly catechized good cause
Math. 7:13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.”
Jesus said that in many ways and many priests are not only avoiding telling the good news (because then they’d have to be exclusive rather than inclusive, because he also says ‘only through me can you come to the Father…the Father and I are one) but they avoid telling people that the promise of eternal life is always conditional…”Those who accept my commandments and obey them are the ones who love me. And because they love me, my Father will love them. And I will love them and reveal myself to each of them.” Read all of Mathew and you will see that all the promises begin with ‘if’ or ‘when’ or ‘because’ etc.
good cause, are you calling Our Lord Jesus Christ a liar ?
For HIS exact words please read: Mt 7:13-14; Mt 7:21-23; Mt 12:36-37; Mt 13:49-50; Mt 18:3; Mt 22:14; Lk 13:5; Lk 13:24; Jn 3:3; Jn 3:5; Jn 3:36;
Jn 14:6
Regarding our duty – Jesus said: “judging with right judgment”: 7:24.
CCC: ” 2092 There are two kinds of presumption. Either man presumes upon his own capacities, (hoping to be able to save himself without help from on high),
or he presumes upon God’s almighty power or his mercy (hoping to obtain his forgiveness without conversion and glory without merit).”
To “Goode Cause”; Without a doubt, and forgive my lack of charity, but this comment is ridiculous, inaccurate and dangerous in that it is incorrect and misdirecting the faithful. The doctrine of Purgatory is clear. The Holy Souls of Purgatory must be prayed for as they are being cleansed of their sins and being perfected, in fire, to gain entrance into heaven. The Doctors of our great church have told us this throughout the ages. To state that “most” go to Heaven is, tragically, utter nonsense.
Who is being judgmental? Good Cause says “most people go to heaven”…really? I think you just passed judgment on “most people”. Last I looked you are not the one who will be the judge.
A funeral mass is not a time to “remember the deceased and the live(life) lived, comfort the grieving, pray for all , and recommit their lives to Christian service”. It is far more than that. It makes present the sacrifice of Christ Jesus, who made our salvation a possibility. If Good Cause judges that “most people” will go to heaven, then I guess “most people” don’t need to practice their Catholic faith [or no faith]…all we have to do is live a life of Christian service and do things that everyone can talk about at their funeral! All I can say is I am grateful that my family will pray for the repose of my soul and have masses said for me. The Good Lord knows, even if you don’t Mr. Good Cause, that I’m trying, but I’m no saint.
Your headline statement of “Why ‘On Eagles’ Wings’ bad idea for funerals.” is not defined or answered in the article. I almost regurgitate every tine I hear that “music.”
Pops, If people would go to Psalm 91, they would see that though it’s a gorgeous Psalm meant to bring comfort and hope to believers, it’s basically about us in mankind through David…
“Because he loves me,” says the Lord, “I will rescue him;
I will protect him, for he acknowledges my name.
He will call on me, and I will answer him;
I will be with him in trouble,
I will deliver him and honor him.
With long life I will satisfy him
and show him my salvation.”
Mass should always focus on our Lord…every word, every piece of music, every action. Hymns like this, though sweet, are about us and what God does for us. The melody is rather saccharin which is also probably why you want to throw up…like trying to eat a whole cheesecake, maybe? haha Anyway, it’s a good song to sing around the campfire, but too lightweight to be used in Mass. They sang it during Eucharist last Sunday at the Mass I attended and I couldn’t believe it! It was so inappropriate on so many levels. I think of Handel when he led the first performance of the Messiah and the audience was on its feet cheering and he pointed to himself and shook his head then pointed to Heaven and said, ‘Not me…Him!”
pS. I was at a TLM today and one thing was really noticable…all the Gregorian chants are in a minor key. Almost all modern hymns are in a major key, as are most lighthearted pop tunes. Jewish music is invariably in a minor key…still is. “If I were a rich man…ya da ba dee da ba dee ba da.”
Dana, Gregorian chant actually came from the Jewish Temple music through the Middle East and into Latin. That is why it has an Asian sound to it. I once went to an English-Loatian Mass, and the chants in Loatian really reminded me of Gregorian chant. They were in a minor key also.
Dana,
I am very fond of Psalm 90; I have sung, many time, this Psalm in English chant.
The older Catholic Bibles show what we are discussing here as Psalm 90. Newer, modern, translation show this as Psalm 91 just like the protestant bible.
Verses 14, 15, and 16 that you show earlier seem to be from a modern translation.
Where I have a real problem with “On eagles wings” is the refrain:
“And He will raise you up on eagles’ wings
Bear you on the breath of dawn
Make you to shine like the sun
And hold you in the palm of His hand.”
The closest reference to “eagles wings” is verse 4 of the psalm: “He will overshadow thee with his shoulders: and under his wings thou shalt trust.”
(I guess like a eagle protecting her young.) In the Psalm, the angels are given charge over thee (Ver. 11) and in their hands they shall bear thee up …(Ver.12). Am I to take it that angels are eagles? I guess I have a guardian eagle.
I don’t know where the last three lines of the refrain come from; not from Psalm 90.
I really do not know what is wrong with some of you people. My wife died on May 7, 2009, and one of the songs that she requested for her funeral Mass was On Eagle’s Wings. My wife was the most Christ-like person that I have ever known. She radiated the love of God; a young Jewish friend of ours told her mother: “You know that I love you, but even you are not like Kathy Foley. Her mother agreed because she knew my wife. I could go on and on, but I will not. I did ask the priest at her funeral Mass to stress Purgatory and to pray for my wife. He did. It was a true Catholic funeral.
Bill Foley, I am sorry to hear about your wife. May she rest in peace. I do not know that much about the song, or hymn, “Eagle Wing’s”. I do not like “The Bread of Life”, though, because quite frankly, it is heretical. We are not the Bread of Life, the Lord Jesus is since the Bread of Life refers to the Holy Eucharist. I have a friend who leads the music at a liturgy and she refuses to use it. I really do not know how it ever got into a Catholic hymnal. Coming from a Protestant background I do love some of those old hymns such as “Amazing Grace” because I know the anti slavery background of the author, but it really should not be sung in a Catholic Church because it does not fit into Catholic theology. Catholic hymnals need Catholic hymns that are theologically correct. All the others can be saved for the radio, tapes or CD’s. Also, I have attended some funerals where they had the person already canonized, and they had lived some very bad lives. In that situation one does not know whether to laugh or cry.
In those situations of course we should pray for the person’s soul regardless of what is going on at the funeral.
The song “I am the Bread of Life” is sung in the person of Jesus until the last verse. It is the words of Jesus from the gospel of John, chapter 6. The last verse is the voice of the follower of Christ who says Yes Lord I believe that you are the Christ; the Son of God who has come into the world.
I looked up the lyrics to Bread of Life, and they do seem to be all right, although I prefer to use hymns that directly praise the Lord. Perhaps it is another hymn that she sent to me that was heretical, and she would not use it at the advice of a good priest.
Thanks, though, Anonymous, for correcting my error.
Anne T.
You must have been at pro-abortion, pro-sodomite Congressman Edward R. Roybal’s funeral where Cardinal Roger Mahony tried to canonize the un-canonizable, and other such politicians where given the forbidden right to the lecturn to give forbidden eulogies for this miscreant politician. Oh yes the Knights of Columbus “Honor” Guard was there too!
May God have mercy on an amoral USA!
Viva Cristo Rey!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
No, Kenneth, I am not important enough to go to politicians’s funerals, and If I suspect a funeral is going to be a fiasco, I sent a Mass or condolence card to the family.
I am sorry about your wife as well, Bill. It must be a comfort that hers was a life well lived. It shouldn’t bother you that we don’t all share the same musical tastes but this is the consequence of a Church becoming divided. There’s a tendency now to see the Church as a democracy and that if enough people want to vote on issues then it’s okay to make adaptations to sacred liturgy. To be honest, this is exactly what has destroyed the protestant churches and I hate to see it happening to the one true Church. I don’t think the laity should be allowed to intrude their tastes on what should be left strictly to the understanding of Sacred Tradition.
Most people are unprepared for their own funeral Mass, and if death is sudden family usually has not done any planning either and must rely on the recommendations of a Priest or another.
We should all spend some time and write down our own preferences.
1) Mass must be said according to GIRM;
2) We should pick appropriate music – not songs praising each other, or that are false and do not give God his due praise;
3) During the eulogy we must ask for prayers for our Soul, and the Souls of others in Purgatory.
4) In lieu of flowers ask to have Masses said at Catholic Churches. (The donation is about $10 per Mass.)
etc., etc., etc.
Thanks, Mike. Good advice!!
Mike, some excellent advice.
Also, in lieu of flowers, I would suggest families say:
— give a donation to a shelter run by the Church.
— donate to the scholarship fund of our parochial school, so poor children can get financial aid.
— send money to a cause you really believe in, such as the retirement fund of a religious order that raised you in the faith.
— give to a “dining room” for the homeless, so they can get a hot meal.
This author is definitely a catechized Catholic with the intelligence to write an excellent article that has increasingly been needed since the early post-Vatican II days, yet which I have never before seen addressed in Catholic publications meant for the lay public and clergy alike.
His work reads like that of a worthy recipient of a fine Catholic school education, and it is a relief to read such work in California Catholic Daily, afflicted as it is with so many ill-thought-out comments that reflect a lack of full understanding of the basics of Catholicism, not to mention a stunning willingness to attack others personally and mercilessly as a failed substitute for honorable argumentation.
Maryanne you are right, this author sounds very well Catechized and is using intelligence. Good comments ML
Get rid of the tambourines; the drums; the guitars; the trumpets; the hand holding; the altar girls; the priest wondering around with a lapel mic like a huckster at a “Get rich with stock options” scam session the local Holiday Inn; deacons giving the homily; and the DOZENS (it seems) of “lay” people that line the alter during communion.
Yeah, I’m one of those throw-back Neanderthal, conservative Catholics – AND PROUD OF IT!!!!!
You shouldn’t be! Be a progressive Catholic where all that you want is not important, but praising the Lord with cymble and drum is! You will feel better about your day if you attend an uplifting Mass. Your soul will rejoice. :)
More stupid liberal posting from a dried up fool of Vatican 2, sex scandal, cover ups, mass attendance at 15%, massive fall in vocations, but as long as you “feel good” right Bob One,,,smash the drum, melt the cymbals…undo Vatican 2 and chase the progressives out of Holy Mother Church…
“I am the Bread of Life” is a completely appropriate hymn for Catholics.
It quotes Jesus — in the Bible, you know? — telling us that He is the Bread of Life, and that no one who comes to Him will hunger.
If grouchy people would simply put on their LISTENING EARS they would realize that many of these hymns they ‘personally’ dislike are from Sacred Scripture, including “Eagle Wings.”
If you don’t like the tune, fine — say it.
If you prefer more traditional hymns, fine — be clear about that.
But don’t accuse Bible quotes that lead into Church music to of being ‘heretical’ or anything of the sort. The Bible is the Word of God, inspired by the Holy Spirit — and you know what the Scriptures say about those who sin against the Holy Spirit.
AND…as for those who rant and rave and froth at the mouth when they DO hear hymns which remind us we are called to be the Body of Christ on this earth, by our words and actions, please remember what Saint Paul tells us firmly in 1 Corinthians 12:27 — “Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it.”
In other words, don’t be passive, sitting there ‘looking’ at the Host and thinking you have no part in the mission of Jesus. At baptism the Lord tells us to become part of his work, to carry out his ministry, and to spread the Gospel. If you just want to sit quietly and watch and not get involved, buy a t.v. and stick with the soaps.
You are right, Michael, and I was in error as Anonymous corrected me. I looked up the lyrics. It was another hymn evidently that my friend refused to use.
“Amazing Grace” is not heretical, either — LISTEN to the words of Saint Paul this weekend at Holy Mass!
“Beloved:
I am grateful to him who has strengthened me, Christ Jesus our Lord,
because he considered me trustworthy
in appointing me to the ministry.
I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and arrogant,
but I have been mercifully treated
because I acted out of ignorance in my unbelief.
Indeed, the grace of our Lord has been abundant,
along with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus.
This saying is trustworthy and deserves full acceptance:
Christ Jesus came into the world to SAVE sinners.
Of these I am the foremost.
But for that reason I was mercifully treated,
so that in me, as the foremost,
Christ Jesus might display all his patience as an example
for those who would come to believe in him for everlasting life.
(1 Timothy, chapter one…)
Paul’s words are a description of the ‘amazing grace’ that comes to us from above and “saved a wretch like me.”
Michael – We had the same reading at Mass today, accompanied later by ‘Amazing Grace” – which I have always liked as a ‘singable song’…
And because it is so hauntingly beautiful on the Bagpipes – which only sound like cats being strangled to the unenlightened i might add.
Saint Paul does give Hope to Us All – from the example of his Conversion and Witness to Sinners to Repent and seek Mercy, which speaks volumes to those of us seeking and hoping but beset by human frailties.
That being said – I think far too many of the Church Tunes are set up for Sopranos and others who can hit high notes, unlike those of us who carry tunes only in wheelbarrows.
Without being blasphemous – I would like more simple songs that I can actually join in singing too… Kind of like ‘Roll out the Barrel 4 Jesus”, only different.
M.M., Every now and then I go to the local happy-clappy Mass just to remind myself how bad things are in the Oakland Diocese. Sounds like we were at the same Mass today.
Michael McDermott: I, too, can’t sing well, but I do sing along. And, like you, I prefer hymns that don’t require a Ph.D. in sing-ology — like “The Church’s One Foundation” and others that are easy, powerful, and remind us that God is God, and we are not.
We’re not even qualified to THINK of applying for the job!
An interesting Anglican hymn, with a decidedly anti-Papal usage. Is it sung in Roman Churches? It is practically sung weekly in many Lutheran churches.
Anglican, Schmanglican — if a hymn is about Christ, that’s good enough for me!
We use Jewish Scriptures, don’t we?
We use hymns from the Bible, from fellow Christians who are Shakers, Methodists, etc.
I find NOTHING un-Catholic or anti-Papal about the wonderful hymn “The Church’s One Foundation” — it quotes the Scriptures, as the Catholic Church does. Just the other day at Mass, what did we hear? “There is ONE Mediator between God and man — the man Christ Jesus.” 1 Timothy 2:5
This is from the Word of God, and there is nothing un-Catholic about it.
I do think that the Adoramus and Westminster Catholic Hymnals that I like do use some Protestant hymns or tunes, but they have been thoroughly checked for acceptable theological content. I do not know if the Westminster Catholic Hymnal is used over here, except probably in an Anglican-Use Catholic Church but the Adoramus Hymnal is used in the U.S.
Or Drop Kick Me Jesus Through the Goal Post of Life. Sorry! folks I could not help that one.
haha. Now this would really be a timely song, “Operator, get heaven on the line
(Make sure you dial the right number)
I got to call Him cause something’s on my mind
(This is a urgent call, no one else will do)
Operator (Get haven) get heaven on the line
(on the line, make sure they answer)
Make sure they answer cause I’m runnin’ out of time
(cause I’m runnin’ out of time listen)
I have to admit that I listen to a lot Christian music of all kinds on my car radio when I am not listening to Immaculate Heart Radio. It certainly beats some of the filthy stuff on the air waves. There are, of course, some secular stations that are decent with some romantic songs that are not vulgar.
Dana and Anne T you two are funny. Love the good humor there. : )
Well, my husband objects to the part where it says “a wretch like me”. It does sound as if it smacks of the total depravity of human nature theology of Calvinism, but I really do not think that is what the author meant. The man who wrote it was a past slave ship owner, and he was talking about himself and all the horrible things he had done. I do not think he was talking about all of humanity. The total depravity of human nature is not Catholic theology. Everyone of us have our reasons for liking or not liking something. I love the hymn, “He called Me in the Night”, because I can relate to that, but others really dislike the hymn for their own reasons. We are all different.
If your husband objects to hearing “a wretch like me,” he must hate the Confiteor of the Roman Catholic Mass, in which we say we are all sinners, and that we have committed these sins “through my fault, my most grievous fault.”
In today’s Mass Saint Paul is pretty clear about the wretch he is, but a wretch who was touched and transformed by Jesus Christ — which we all hope to be.
“If we claim we have no sin, we are only fooling ourselves and not living in the truth.” 1 John 1:8
My husband has no problem with the Confiteor. I think he just thingks “Amazing Grace” is too Protestant for some reason.
Oops! I meant “thinks”.
Anne T Michael seems to misunderstand you, you explained it on your other comments, I didn’t know about the origin of Amazing grace but now that you mention the story of the one who wrote it, it makes good sense. But it is a protestant song that is for sure but I do admit I do like the words except for the wretch part too, but the rest of the song is nice but still protestant, can ‘t deny that.
Abeca Christian, the author also turned to Christianity while reading Thomas a Kempis’s Imitation of Christ, a very Catholic book by a monk. I think he became a Baptist, though, when he went back to England and helped stop the slave trade. Also, deceased Jean Cardinal Lustiger told in one of his books how he converted to the Catholic Church by going down to his parents’s bookcase, finding the hidden key and getting out the Protestant Bible his Jewish parents had in the book case and reading it.
Amazing grace is a song of Heretics
Western I heard that before but the words don’t seem that way except for the wretch part but in consideration of what Anne T said, seems like the author of the song went through great suffering and this song may have been his consolation to help him through nearer to Christ, from what faith he held. But I don’t find that song appropriate in a Catholic setting I suppose.
Wow, you guys are SO much holier than all other “loser” Catholics who sing “On Eagles Wings.” You must go straight to Heaven when it’s all said and done. Be sure to pray for us heathen Catholics who prefer not to parse every tiny detail of the Mass (especially funeral Masses) and simply try to live our faith as Christ taught us.
Thanks …..
You are judging
As are you.
As are we all.
That’s part of what it means to be made “in the image and likeness of God” — we’re not just animals who eat, sleep and die, but rather we use our judgment to try to determine, correctly, what’s the right thing to do, and what’s the wrong thing.
If we don’t judge, we can’t pursue virtue.
If we don’t judge, EVERYTHING is just hunky-dory…murder…adultery…the whole schmear.
Michael good one….yes it’s part of learning to discern….
The big picture is that funeral masses bring in people that have never been in a Catholic Church. Someone on our street died and most neighbors, who are mainly Jewish, did show up. Our liberal priest did a surprisingly respectful job and made us proud. We should not get down in the weeds about details, it is a wonder we have the Catholic Church to provide a nourishing environment in which our Faith can develop.
I would love to have a true Requiem Mass for me. The day funeral homes offer that EF option with the permission of the bishops tradition will blossom. While the EF is forbidden the present, current funeral masses add a welcome additional dignity to our lives.
EF is not forbiden by the Church any longer. You do not need the Bishops permission.
On ‘Eagles Wings’ sucks not becouse its a bad Psalm but becouse its not sung in context at a Funeral.
“Sucks?”
Well, isn’t that a lovely word — in this context of Mass and song.
The Catholic Church teaches that the funeral rites should talk about what God has done and is doing through His Son, Jesus Christ. So hymns which describe the action of the Almighty (“I will raise them up…”) don’t “suck,” as you so delicately put it — they follow the Church directives about liturgical music.
If you don’t like the tune, just say so.
But maybe, next time, with less vulgarity.
I agree with Michael the word “sucks” was just cheap language used in regards to a nice song “Eagles wings”.
The exact words in – “On Eagles Wings” – can be presumptive – if one assumes the deceased is automatically going to Heaven. It could cause confusion amongst the uncatechised, and non-Catholics.
What is judged for any particular Soul by Jesus can not be assumed one way or the other – except for canonized Saints.
CCC: ” 2092 There are two kinds of presumption.
Either man presumes upon his own capacities, (hoping to be able to save himself without help from on high),
or he presumes upon God’s almighty power or his mercy (hoping to obtain his forgiveness without conversion and glory without merit).”
Mel, once again, it’s a psalm. Please stop reading sin into every action a person might take, especially when they are SINGING PSALMS.
Purgatory is a good idea but this determination to force it into our human conception of time–so much earth time in Purgatory–is way above our human pay grade. We have no idea of how or when the purification takes place; for all we know it might take the equivalent of a nonosecond after death and all our attempts, saints and visionaries included, to describe the purification in terms of the earthly sufferings we know anything about are likewise nonsense. We just don’t know, so why don’t we just shut up?
caroline – you are so right on, I can’t tell you. Until it was explained in a similar manner to me, I could never have become a Catholic. The un-dogmatic joining of earthly time to the dogma of purgatory is a stumbling block, that if removed, would see many more converts to the Catholic Faith.
The newer approved books of indulgences no longer have any time associated with the prayers, and most of them explain what that meant in the past. There are just plenary and partial indulgences included.
The (30 days) etc. that were after an indulged prayer never did mean that the person would be let out 30 days sooner. I forget what the meaning was, but that was not it. Many people thought so, though, so the newer books discontinued the practice, so people were not confused.
NEVER hide from or withhold the TRUTH of our Faith.
For ACCURATE teaching of the Church regarding PURGATORY rather than the machinations of any individuals – read the “CATECHISM of the CATHOLIC CHURCH, Second Editon”.
CCC: 1031; 1498; 1475; 1472.
CCC: ” 1472 To understand this doctrine and practice of the Church, it is necessary to understand that sin has a double consequence. Grave sin deprives us of communion with God and therefore makes us incapable of eternal life, the privation of which is called the “eternal punishment” of sin.
On the other hand every sin, even venial, entails an unhealthy attachment to creatures, which must be purified either here on earth, or after death in the state called Purgatory. This purification frees one from what is called the “temporal punishment” of sin.
These two punishments must not be conceived of as a kind of vengeance inflicted by God from without, but as following from the very nature of sin. A conversion which proceeds from a fervent charity can attain the complete purification of the sinner in such a way that no punishment would remain. ”
See Bible: 1 Cor 3:15; 1 Pet 1:7; Mt 12:31;
Praying for the Dead – Bible: 2 Mac 12:38-46.
My favorite English hymns are in the Adoramus and Westminster Catholic hymnals as I was brought up with that kind of English for Church use so to me it seems special. I love the older hymn “The King of Love My Shepherd Is” from the Adoramus hymnal.
Anne, I think you mean the “Adoremus Hymnal,” which comes from the Latin “let us adore.”
“Adoramus” means “we adore,” an is the Gloria, “Adoramus te/We adore you.”
It’s like like the Latin word “Oremus,” which means “Let us pray,” as opposed to “Oramus/We pray.”
Oops, sorry for getting so boring… :)
You are correct, Michael, I misspelled it.
I still get my Latin declensions mixed up.
I have been trying to figure out why some people think “The Church’s One Foundation” is an inappropriate song for Church. Here are the words:
•The Church’s one foundation
Is Jesus Christ her Lord;
She is His new creation
By water and the Word:
From heav’n He came and sought her
To be His holy Bride;
With His own blood He bought her,
And for her life He died.
•Elect from every nation,
Yet one o’er all the earth,
Her charter of salvation,
One Lord, one faith, one birth;
One holy Name she blesses,
Partakes one holy food,
And to one hope she presses,
With every grace endued.
Is that really considered anti-catholic by some?
Source: https://www.hymnal.net/hymn.php/h/833#ixzz2fBJlvtvI
Hello!
Precisely!
Some dingbats heard from Sister Mary in 2nd grade that Protestant hymns are all anti-Catholic, and they swallowed it hook, line and sinker.
Well, some Protestants or groups of Protestant were calling Catholics anti Christs at that time and encouraging the breaking of statues because they asked the prayers of the Virgin Mary, etc., so there was not much camaraderie all the way around, Michael. I had ancestors on both sides, so I know how awful they could be to one another.
Bob One –
It depends – if you want to praise God, or praise the Church.
Words in the song you quoted praise the Church.
The Church is not God.
Always pay attention to the exact words.
Our Lord said “Many are called but few are chosen”. That is for living in heaven with Him for eternity. Doesn’t seem to carry the same message as most of the funeral celebrants are preaching at the deceased rosaries, funerals, and graveyard services for the last few decades. Rosary services, who goes to them? So in reality, the lucky souls will make it to at least into purgatory to atone for their sins balancing of course their merits earned on earth like doing God’s will, not offending Him to often, or at least begging forgiveness of their sins, performing their penances as given by their confessor priests, and trying to amend their lives. The others on judgment day have the suffering pains of hell to look forward to for eternity. The clergy unwilling to stand up and explain true Roman Catholic Church teaching like they did years ago are not doing any favors for the deceased bound for or in purgatory, when the deceased’s left behind loved ones aren’t praying for the deceased because they have been told the deceased is serving spaghetti for loved ones (or whatever) that are all in heaven too. Our prayers do help our deceased love ones by shortening their time suffering in purgatory. Wouldn’t you like your loved ones to help shorten your purgatory time by their prayers? Purgatory is not minimum security penitentiary you know. Pain and suffering do happen there for atoning to God for our sins. Prayers don’t help anyone in hell, that is for eternity too.
Jeannie, I do indulgences for the dead all the time, and if the soul for whom you are praying does not need it, the Church teaches that it can be applied to another soul who does, so no prayers are wasted. Also, those whom you prayed for will pray for you when and if they get to heaven. One has to be in a state of grace, no attachment to sin, to gain the indulgence. People really need to get a copy of the “Handbook of Indulgences, norms and grants” or some small book about indulgences and use it. It is good to do a plenary one after or right before confession in a Church.
An indulgence can be applied to ones self or to the dead but not the living.
That is not to the living other than ones self.
Although I am not ill, I am planning my “Catholic” funeral now since most of my family is non-Catholic.
1) I want to be prayed for.
2) I want to instruct non-Catholics on the beauty of the Faith.
3) I don’t want my spouse to have to make important decisions during a stressful time.
The songs that I am considering are:
Ave Maria (entrance hymn) prior to start of Mass.
During Presentation of gifts: Panis Angelicus
Communion Song: Pie Jesu
Recessional: “You’ll Never Walk Alone”.
(Songs sung in Latin will have English translations as well, in small print in handouts.)
A good book on the choices of prayers permitted is:
“Through Death to Life” (preparing to celebrate the Funeral Mass.) It was recommended by my Parish Pastor.
It’s important to also read the CCC regarding: palliative care, cremation, paragraphs on Christian Funerals, etc.