The following comes from a June 30 story by Michael Brown on CharismaNews.com.
On Saturday, June 28, Michael Brown debated Matthew Vines [proponent of reconciling homosexuality with the Christian faith] on the topic of homosexuality and Christianity. That debate can be viewed for free here.
For the last few decades, there have been gay-affirming Christians who reject the full authority of the Bible and who have no problem saying that Moses or Paul were wrong on certain subjects. But it is only in the last few years that there has been a rise in gay-affirming Christians who claim to be orthodox believers in the full inspiration of the Scriptures.
The simple fact is that is impossible to fully affirm the divine inspiration of the Scriptures, which includes a full affirmation of the deity of Jesus, while at the same time claiming that God approves of committed homosexual relationships.
For example, gay-affirming Christians commonly claim that while the Bible’s prohibition of homosexual practice is categorical, it is not talking about homosexuality as we know it today. Instead, we are told that the biblical authors were speaking against abusive homosexual relationships involving pederasty or prostitution or rape or excessive lust. (Another argument would be that they were denouncing homosexual practices involved in idolatrous rites.)
It can be easily be demonstrated that this is not true, as other scholars have done, and as I seek to demonstrate as well in Can You Be Gay and Christian?
But for the sake of argument, let’s say that this was true and that Moses and Jesus and Paul knew nothing about long-term, committed homosexual relationships or that they had no notion of modern concepts of allegedly inborn, fixed homosexual orientation. That would mean that God inspired the biblical authors to write in such a way that homosexual men and women would be rejected and marginalized and judged for almost 3,500 years (from the time of giving of the Law to Israel until the late 20th century).
It would mean that God inspired Moses to write that it was an abomination for a man to lie with a man even though he didn’t mean committed men lying with committed men, and even though Old Testament Israel (and religious Jews to this day) and the New Testament church (including conservative Christians to this day) would think God was prohibiting all homosexual relationships.
That is what a loving God would do? That is how He would inspire His children to write?
The same could be said for Paul’s clear words in Romans 1:24-27 and 1 Corinthians 6:9-11. Why would God inspire him to write in this way if He knew that the words would be so terribly misconstrued and misused?…
To read the entire story, click here.
Oh dear Lord .. Yet another Protestant fundamentalist holy roller article. This one by a guy who also prostyltizes Jews, something that Pope Francis has specifically said we don’t do.
Has the editor of Cal Catholic Daily converted to some holy roller religion? Really, we Catholics have plenty of writers, priests, theologins et. al with out turning to the competition.
Yes C&H this Pope is wrong on many things … There will only be Catholics in Heaven…
If anyone knows about buggery it should be a sea snail.
C&H and Canisius, Pope Francis has never said that we are not to evangelize the Jewish people. He might have use the words “not proselytize”, and there can be a difference in Latin American countries between evangelizing and proselytizing. I read an article about it but do not remember the title. One of the Sisters on EWTN is of Jewish background, and she definitely thinks her people should be evangelized. That does not mean she thinks they have all gone to hell because many of them really have no idea who Jesus Christ was or is. They have heard of him but really know nothing about him. She herself had no idea who he was until she was first told by some Evangelicals and read the New Testament which led her to the Catholic Church. So we do need to tell Jewish people about the Lord Jesus but in a charitable manner.
Funny that we’re supposedly not to ‘proselytize,’ C&H, yet we are commanded to evangelize, those words being synonyms and all. Thank goodness St. Peter and the other Apostles weren’t similarly put off from spreading the faith to their fellows as Our Lord commanded.
But I do see the point in not bothering to proselytize when one isn’t living the faith, for then it would indeed be solemn nonsense. So perhaps Catholics should opt to live the actual Faith. Then we wouldn’t need such a vast amount of writers, priests, theologians et. al churning out new twists in doctrine to explain away our embracing sin.
The message being: Live the faith in all its fullness and that will be preaching enough. Not, don’t share the good news and the Faith with anybody, Jews included, so we can all join hands in Hell.
Ann … Regarding the Jews and Canusis claim there will only be Catholics in heaven … the Magisterium of the Church disagrees. I looks like Michael Brown also has a theology which would lead him to try and convert Catholics to Protestant fundamentalism. I’ve had friends ask me why, with all the culture warriorism by the American bishops I don’t leave. My answer is that as imperfect as the Church is, it is THE church founded by Jesus Christ when he placed his hand on Peter’s shoulder.
C&H, those outside the Church who could be saved by way of inculpable ignorance will not be ‘saved’ because of the errors they embrace, but rather in spite of the errors they embrace. Hence salvation comes from the Catholic Church.
And please do not confuse the stereotyped ideology of Protestant fundamentalism with what is fundamental about being Catholic. That said, the Church founded by Our Lord is not imperfect, but the faithfulness of those within her is imperfect as many say one thing and do another. So again, try to look to what the Church actually teachings and has always taught. This new twist that attempts to make that which is sin and has always been sin into somehow unavoidable and beyond our control is just a perversion.
That is why when you proudly state that if you met Ms Right you might be inclined to have a child together is so misguided. Why? Because you are willfully allowing a misrepresentation of what the Church – founded by Christ – has always taught to stand as a ‘new’ truth. Of which there is none.
So while I applaud your desire to stay within Christ’s One True Church, why would you think logically that it is somehow uncharitable to encourage those outside the Church to join by proper evangelization – that is by word and example? Doesn’t make sense.
.. correction, salvation comes through the Church, C&H. Don’t want to open another can o’worms.
Excellent posts, Ann Malley! Clear as glass, as usual. I admire your patience and good nature too. I would just add my little mite, that if there is ‘nothing’ in the OT about homosexuality being an abomination, forbidden and the sin that cries to heaven, then why are there no homosexual relationships in all the Bible? Why didn’t God make a man for Adam? Why was Noah told to bring just two of every species on the Ark? The very absence of such a modern view of relationships speaks louder than words! It’s so childish to look for excuses to do something forbidden. “Well, it’s not my fault I ran my bike into a car, Mom! You didn’t tell me not to!”
Unfortunately, Dana, today’s society is training them up to run into the car. That way, those things that mere logic would tell us not to do, we’ll do under the guise of not knowing. The idea being to raise childish adults instead of child like (that is forthcoming, obedient, and trusting) adults who hold fast to the Truth.
Manufactured invincible ignorance.
Some call it progress. But God won’t be mocked no matter what the name.
Take care :)
Tell me where I am wrong C&H,,,, I stand by the fact there will only be Catholics in Heaven,,
Can you point to any passage in the CCC 2’d edition which says that?
I will give you one from mouth of Our Divine Savior “He that denies me before man I shall deny before the Father”… and of course “Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say unto you: Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you.” Both of these kind of says it all don’t you think…
Who will explain to Canisius why his statement is contrary to Church teaching?
@teacher,, no one because they can’t because its not……
Canisius, no one can because they don’t know the Catholic faith or they don’t want to take a straight persons side against a gay person, which is very evil.
Now, you yourself know that it is not true, I imagine. What happened after Jesus Christ died? Where did he go? Why?
@teacher you know zero about me…repeat zero…if you don’t know the answers to your own questions then you do not believe in Christ as the Savior..2nd Person of the Holy Trinity, Prince of Peace, … and yes gays push an evil agenda on the rest of us..
Canisius, this has nothing to do with the evil gay agenda. It has to do with believing the Catholic faith. Of course, I know the answer to the questions. You did not answer the question and like you point out, I know nothing about you. If you know the answer, you can confidently say that there are people in Heaven who were not Catholic.
Well all the saved will all end up Catholics in heaven.
The explanation of “Outside the Church There is No Salvation” is on the EWTN website and in the on line Catholic Encyclopedia if anyone really wants to know the answer. Look it up for yourselves instead of listening to others.
Are you afraid that people will check out the Bible?
When one checks out the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition” #2357, 2358, 2359, & 2396, it clearly states that homosexual acts are mortal sins, and under no circumstances can they be approved..
The footnotes reference: Gen 19:1-29; Rom 1:24-27; 1 Cor 6:10; 1 Tim 1:10.
CCC: ” 105 God is the author of Sacred Scripture.
The divinely revealed realities, which are contained and presented in the text of Sacred Scripture, have been written down under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.
For Holy Mother Church, relying on the faith of the apostolic age, accepts as sacred and canonical the books of the Old and the New Testaments, whole and entire, with all their parts, on the grounds that, written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, they have God as their author, and have been handed on as such to the Church herself. “
Matt, yes please check out Scripture: https://biblehub.com/ezekiel/16-49.htm “‘Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.”
YFC, Sodom in Ezekiel 16 was a “harlot”, “idolitor”, and many “other abominiations”. – and “corrupt in all her ways”. You only picked out a few to try and justify your sodomy.
Yes, it is true that those who are guilty of the abomination of sodomy, can also be guilty of other sins.
Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed mainly but not only because of the sin of Sodomy (sexual actions between persons of the same sex) see GENESIS 19:1-29.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
” Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers,
nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.”
– – – – –
1 Tim 1:8-10
” Now we know that the law is good, if any one uses it lawfully, understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, immoral persons,
kidnapers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine,”
Now YFC take your support for homosexual acts (which includes sodomy marriage) elsewhere.
You will not get support from any Faithful Catholic for your Mortal Sins on any Catholic media site.
– – – – –
Jesus said not many will get to Heaven.
Do not try to drag others to Hell with you.
Mt 7:13-14; Lk 13:23-28.
I can point you to dozens of levitical prohibitions and abominations that each of you do everyday. Where would you like me to begin?
No doubt you can, YFC, because you have studied them all in an attempt to baptize homosexual sex. Why you would be so bent on pushing that which is an abomination to God is abominable.
Our Lord was very specific in outlining what marriage is. Anything outside that is impurity as you well know which leads to damnation.
Baptize homosexual sex? I don’t even know what that means.
So which levitical prohibitions would you like me to explore?
“…Baptize homosexual sex? I don’t even know what that means.”
Yes, you do, YFC. Your pretending fools nobody for you are no cow-eyed innocent without the capacity for subtlety or understanding metaphor. Quite the contrary. As your posts do nothing but promote the impossible transformation of that which is an abomination into something good.
That said, Satan can debate scripture, YFC, as he knows it intimately. Much like a good many folks who proclaim to be Catholic.
You know perfectly well that “this is the sin of Sodom” does not mean “The sins of Sodom include…”. Ezekial is one of the earliest extant explications of the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, and makes complete sense if you read the text of the account. In order to make the story of Sodom into something about same sex marriage, you have to do quite a lot of juggling.
No, Ann malley, I honestly have no idea what it means to “baptize homosexual sex”. This phrase – entirely made up by you – makes no sense whatsoever. PEOPLE are baptized…not actions. If you said that I want to “baptize homosexuals”, THEN I would agree with you. I think the Kingdom of God is open to people both gay and straight, and so we can rest assured that there have been gay Saints, both canonized and not-yet recognized formally. Is that what you mean??
But we don’t baptize actions, whether good or ill, as you suggest when you accuse me of wanting to
“baptize homosexual sex”. This is an absurd construction that means nothing to me and I have never ever said anything close to this. You make things up, create them out of whole cloth, and then accuse me of them. This one is but your latest example. Can you please stop accusing me of things I never said and never hinted at???
YFC, you provide me with too much material, sorry. Your posts are rife with inconsistencies, half truths, intentional misdirects, and that which is morally corrupt and sinful. You do know this, just like you know your attempt to baptize (or make holy) homosexual sex is at the top of your agenda…. no matter what pew you sit in.
Your honesty in this area would be respected if nothing else.
As for ‘juggling’ and defining the sin of Sodom, you make yourself and those in the so-called modern era out to be somehow wiser than generations of those who have come before us. What you prove is that every generation likes to think themselves the wiser or more clever when it comes to recasting sin as somehow acceptable.
Times change, YFC, but people and their motives do not.
Christ fulfilled the ritual law of the Old Testament and Christians no longer have to obey that part of it, YFC, as you have been told many times before. We no longer have to keep the Kosher Law, nor the laws about the mixing of different materials nor even circumcision as those laws were only meant to signify the separation of the Israelites as a holy nation dedicated to God, Christ changed that when he gave St. Peter the vision that is recorded in the book of Acts in the New Testament. But Christians DO have to keep the morals laws of the Ten Commandments, which subtitles include the laws against fornication, adultery, incest, sodomy and bestiality. We are to be holy and keep our bodies holy unto the Lord. That IS emphasized all through the Old and New Testament.
Well stated, Anne T!
The ten commandments have subtitles? Do you mean the movie, The Ten Commandments? There are subtitles about sodomy?
Always important to continue reading:
Ezekiel 16:50 “…And they were lifted up, and committed abominations before me: and I took them away as thou hast seen.”
Leviticus 18:22 “…You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.”
Leviticus 20:13 “…If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.”
So the riches and negligence of the people of Sodom did lead them to be lifted up only to commit *abominations*. Why? Because they didn’t use their riches wisely or charitably, but turned instead to indulging themselves much like the United States is doing by tossing off the riches of the natural law, morality, and common sense to pursue abominations that foment ultimate ruination.
Seems pretty clear…….it would seem laughable if it were not so grave……how so many people do not want to read, hear, or see the Truth when it is set right before them.
What is your point, “C&H”? Gay-affirming homosexual sexualists are not meeting Christ’s commandments, but are playing make-believe. What if God said that I was committed with my two wives? Or with my dog? Or that I am a committed masturbator? Nutty, crazy, ideas, not really worth of debate. Too bad that our left-leaning Church even considers anything about homosexuality to be acceptable. We will all see what the increasing Church of Man comes out with in October. And, yes, a Pope can make mistakes, serious ones, that believers are not required to recognize or follow. We do not worship a man in the Catholic Church, except one that is both God and Man — Jesus Christ.
SC .. Huh? … how did we get on a definition of ‘committed.” BTW, many Isrealites held up in the bible as being upright had two wives. This continued even for sometime after Christ left us. I expect that God wanted these men and their multiple wives to be “committed” to one another.
And yet you would deny the necessity of bringing the modern day Israelites into the light of the One True Church, C&H? Why would you do that?
Great question, Ann Malley, and what C & H fails to mention is that the Lord Jesus Christ said that Moses, who only had one wife by the way, allowed multiple wives because of the hardness of hearts, but that it was not so from the beginning. She also fails to mention that most all the fighting between the Muslims and Jews in the Middle East stems from the fighting between Sarah, the wife of Abraham, and Hagar, the concubine of Abraham. If you want to create hell on earth, just give a man two wives.
That is why I find it impossible, Anonymous, to believe those Catholics who advocate catering to the wholesale hardening of hearts love Christ at all. They promote ignorance, a defeatist mentality, the dismissal of grace, Truth, and what we are called to be by Our Lord Himself.
Much like pressing a husband to allow his wife to commit adultery on a regular basis because she just cannot help herself.
Really? You think that Jews fight Muslims, Sunni fight Shiites because of a domestic dispute between Sarah and Hagar??? Um, maybe the bombs and the hostages and the barbed wire have something to do with it, no?
Anon…”Moses,…….., allowed multiple wives because of the hardness of hearts…” Where is that in the Old Testament?
And Anonymous on July 7 at 10:24, who was not me, the Jewish people of today are descended from Isaac, the son of Sarah, Abraham’s wife, and Mohammed claimed to be descended from Ishmael, the son of Hagar, Abraham’s concubine. The Israelites and the Ishmaelites have been fighting off and on since the Old Testament over territory, etc.. And as far as the Muslims fighting one another, many of the different factions that are fighting each other, often over the right to the caliphate, are descended from Mohammad’s different wives; he had at least eleven. He told his followers they could only have four wives and some concubines, but he seemed not to have followed his own advice. That is why I said, “If you want to create hell on earth, just give a man two wives.” Kind of like what King Henry the 8th did to England, but even worse because the whole world gets sucks into this.
Ann … Because the Church teaches that they are fine just fine being good Jews. BTW … Protestant fundamentalists hold that the Jews of today are not the Israelites of the Bible. Our Church, of course, rejects that theology.
That ‘teaching’ is to misconstrue what we are called to do as Catholics, C&H. If Jews were fine as they are, there would have been no need for Christ to come and/or for the Apostles to preach the Gospel. They could have just welcomed all into the Jewish Faith. Manufactured invincible ignorance for the sake of political expediency is false religion.
Much like the confused ambiguous message of preaching the gospel while at the same time leaving those in false religions to themselves. If such were the case, the Apostles should have apologized to the Pharisees for following Christ. They were Jewish, after all, and had no need to accept Jesus by the logic you present. So why did they preach to their own?
As to what the so called Protestant Fundamentalists believe, try looking to the historical aspects of what they are discussing before dismissing outright the valid points raised by them. And don’t forget. Our Lord Himself likened the leadership to being sons of the Devil.
Unlike you may believe, the Catholic Church has absolutely no authority when it comes to defining what other religions ‘really’ believe or how precisely they practice. That is a negation of basic free will and reality.
The Lord Jesus Christ said it in the New Testament, C&H, in the first part of the 19th chapter of Matthew. Please read it for yourself as it is obvious that you have never read the full Scriptures nor do you understand them according to Catholic teaching. Also, since you referred to “good” Jews, I recommend that you read some of the articles on homosexual acts and behavior that really good Jews have written, such as Don Feder. You can just look up “Don Feder on homosexual acts, and a whole lot of very accurate Jewish teaching on the wrongness of homosexual acts will come up, but of course, you probably do not consider him a “good” Jew. There are plenty of other good Jews who try to keep the Ten Commandments and know and say such acts are wrong.
So who are those good Jews C&H. Is Mark Levin the Jewish commentator a good Jew? He believes so-called same-sex marriages are wrong, bad for society and children and against Judeo Christian teaching. Is Don Feder, the Conservative Jewish write a good Jew? He thinks sodomy is wrong and that marriage should be between one man and one woman. Is the on line Jewish Encyclopedia that calls sodomy a perverse act written by good Jews, C&H? Who are the good Jews you are talking about? Quite frankly, I think the Holy Father would agree with the thinking on homosexual and Lesbianism of all those Jewish people I mentioned.
“Because the Church teaches that they are fine just fine being good Jews” This is utter nonsense C&H…. this if it were true which it is not would deny Christ and His entire reason of His sacrifice.
No, C&H, most Protestants do believe that the Jews of today are from the tribe of Judah and a few other tribes of the ancient Israelites, although there was some intermarriage with non Israelites. The Israelites were a nation that consisted of twelve tribes. One was Judah, the tribe from which most Jews are descended. . I would assume that any Jew with the last name Levi has some ancestors from the tribe of Levi also, or with the last name Benjamin or Rueben ancestors from those tribes. At least the Protestant denominations I went to believed that.
Anne Malley, the Anonymous post you answered to was mine. Somehow I failed to put in my name. Sorry!
So *that’s* why the Anonymous post made such good sense. :)
Good for him. I would have no sense of judgment on him. The same Bible that…teaches us well about the virtues of chastity and fidelity and marriage also tells us not to judge people, so I would say, bravo.
You forgot “God bless ya” –
“Good for him. I would have no sense of judgment on him. God bless ya. I don’t think, look, the same bible that tells us that teaches us well about the virtues of chastity and the virtue of fidelity and marriage also tells us not to judge people. So I would say, ‘Bravo.'”
We don’t judge the sinner…..but we do judge the sin……God commands it. My gay cousins know that I love them……but they also know that I believe that a homosexual lifestyle is a sin. They also know that I was against them using IVF to have a baby…..because it’s a SIN. Yes, I judge what they DO, not who they ARE…..I pray for the conversion of their souls before it’s too late. NO, I do not happily celebrate their CHOICES to sin….I do not participate so as not to be culpable in the sin…… It’s a tremendous pain and burden to watch the majority of my family’s souls “lost” in their misplaced compassion for the “disordered” few.
SandraD, I doubt that your gay cousins think you love them. I think they probably think you judge them and look down upon them. If they want to come on here on CCD and tell their story, let’s hear them out! But I seriously doubt that given your take on things, that any gay relative of yours thinks you love them. The tremendous pain you refer to, probably refers to the pain they experience by being in a family that has to tolerate your opinions.
YFC, I didn’t say they “liked” my belief system, nor me because of what I stand for…….but who likes anyone who calls them out on their sins? I love them so much and don’t want to see them lost for all eternity. And no, they probably don’t care what I think because they have half of the family who are in the same gay-affirming boat with them…….lost, adrift, and headed on the same road to perdition if they don’t turn back to God and repent.
Just like you YFC, you don’t like to hear the Truth either.
And I’m pretty darned sure you don’t love me.
Sandra .. are you sure you are called to call them out for their sins? I end up spend a lot of time defending our Church to my fellow gay friends. The only time I make any headway is when I talk about t what God through His Church has done for me, especially in times of crisis.
Oh, but I do love you YFC. You are my brother In Christ. I just don’t agree with anything you say or do.
And, C&H, “calling someone out” doesn’t mean I attack them as you suggest, but I do speak the Truth to them.
It is love to be concerned about the soul of another. The bible is the word of God. Twisting the word of God to fit your particular sin is wrong. Sure, her relative feels internal friction, because she is going against God and she knows that some in her family do not approve. Christians who twist the word of God cause confusion in the hearts and minds of other Christians. What is more difficult bearing a cross on earth or eternal separation from God?
You seem to enjoy confusing Church teaching with opinion, YFC. What one feels is not reality. One can feel alone in a room full of people. One can feel a marriage is over, but it is not. One can feel that their parents do not love them when they are corrected as a child, but when one GROWS UP one realizes that their parents loved them as none other and understood precisely what they needed as a child. Not the indulgence a child believes they need to prove love.
Please stop lowering the bar.
You know Ann Malley, what one feels IS part of reality. Was Jesus’ agony in the garden not real? I’m not going to let you lower the bar for me or for anyone else by simply brushing aside people’s real feelings for some alternative reality. It is time you grow up and start treating people with respect instead of the dismissiveness you so often display here. Everyone is wrong except you. Everyone is not entitled to have opinions unless they are yours. Everyone is not entitled to feelings and emotions, except for you. Bubble away in your own schismatic world.
Excellent example, YFC. Our Lord rose above His ‘feelings’, very real feelings, to obey the Father. We are all called to do the same. So don’t stop at human feelings, but rather look at Our Lord sweating blood and do what Our Lord God calls men to be. Men. Made in the image and likeness of God, seeking to be perfect as the Heavenly Father is perfect. Not chained by the disordered urges of the flesh. Intimating that ‘feeling’ should come above God’s word is lowering the bar, YFC. Treating people like stunted half-men and lower than animals is no charity.
If you constitute such thinking as schismatic, then you have no understanding of the Catholic Faith, or the precepts of Papal infallibility or obedience. And no, I didn’t invent Catholic truths, YFC, much as you’d like to think so in order to ignore them.
Obedience does not require one to betray God’s laws for those of men. And if you choose to be Pilate, asking God Himself what is truth to His face, or while He sweats blood to do the Father’s will, that’s your choice. But that is not Catholic. Much like your playing Devil’s Advocate against SandraD’s extremely charitable and Catholic response to her wayward relatives.
D. Olan, what kind of Bible are you using? Have you ever read the Bible?
Jesus clearly told us to JUDGE with right Judgment.
“Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.” JESUS Jn 7:24.
Jesus also told us to FIRST take the log out of our own eye BEFORE taking the splinter out of another’s eye. And that we will be judged by the same measure with which we judge. Mt 7:1-5; and Lk 6:41-42,
“……. first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take out the speck that is in your brother’s eye.” – JESUS (Lk 6: 42)
We must always judge sin. We must never tolerate mortal sin.
Why don’t you quote the rest of that Bible passage? Are you afraid it will blow your thinking to pieces, which it does!
May God have mercy on an amoral Amerika and His Church!
Viva Cristo Rey!
Yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
I believe “D. Olan” is a play on “Dolan”, who, when asked on NBC about a homosexual football player who “came out”, said:
“Good for him. I would have no sense of judgment on him. God bless ya. I don’t think, look, the same Bible that tells us, that teaches us well about the virtues of chastity and the virtue of fidelity and marriage also tells us not to judge people. So I would say, ‘Bravo.'”
When I heard this come out of his mouth, I was shocked! Satan surely has another notch on his belt!
At the very least, Cardinal Dolan willfully ignored a prime opportunity to convey what the Church actually teaches. It begs the question of precisely who he is answering to for Our Lord admonished us to have our yes mean yes and our no mean no.
Regarding homosexual acts “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition”
clearly states that Homosexual Acts are mortal sins, and that they can never be approved.
CCC: # 2357, 2358, 2359 & 2396.
The footnotes in the CCC reference Holy Scripture: Gen 19:1-29; Rom 1:24-27;
1 Cor 6:10; and 1 Tim 1:10.
CCC: ” 105 God is the author of Sacred Scripture.
The divinely revealed realities, which are contained and presented in the text of Sacred Scripture, have been written down under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.
For Holy Mother Church, relying on the faith of the apostolic age, accepts as sacred and canonical the books of the Old and the New Testaments,
whole and entire, with all their parts, on the grounds that, written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, they have God as their author, and have been handed on as such to the Church herself. ”
Footnotes: Jn 20:31; 2 Tim 3:16; 2 Pet 1:19-21; 2 Pet 3:15-16.
CCC: ” 81 “Sacred Scripture is the speech of God as it is put down in writing under the breath of the Holy Spirit.
And [Holy] Tradition transmits in its entirety the Word of God which has been entrusted to the apostles by Christ the Lord and the Holy Spirit. It transmits it to the successors of the apostles so that, enlightened by the Spirit of truth, they may faithfully preserve, expound and spread it abroad by their preaching. ”
See: 2 Thess 2:15.
CCC: ” 2089 INCREDULITY Is the neglect of revealed truth or the willful refusal to assent to it.
HERESY is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same;
APOSTACY is the total repudiation of the Christian faith;
SCHISM is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him .”
Re.: Schism, does that say that St. Athanasius the Great, Doctor of the Church is in Hell for schism?
May God have mercy on an amoral Amerika and His Church!
Viva Cristo Rey!
Yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher,
St. Athanasius never denied that Pope Liberius I was the Pope, but he certainly did not follow him into Arianism!
May God have mercy on an amoral Amerika and His Church!
Viva Cristo Rey!
Yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
Kenneth … It seems to me that not being a sedvacandist is a pretty low bar…
Then raise the bar to teaching what the Church actually holds to be true, C&H, instead of using false obedience as a ruse to promote that which is sinful as somehow good or unavoidable.
You know, don’t you, that honoring one’s mother and father as we are commanded to do does not require us to sin at our parent’s request. For it is no honor to engage in and/or promote that which is sinful or even the occasion thereof. That is no true obedience.
So saying it is no virtue, per se, for a young man, knowing himself to be a raging alcoholic, to drink alcohol just because his inebriated parents insist that he must. Rather, it is the parents abusing their authority to endanger the well being of their son.
So if those in positions of authority misuse their authority and put the flock into the occasion of sin, or sin itself, rejecting said commands is justified and honorable.
It seems to me that being a sodomite Lesbian is a much, much, much lower bar when you are trying (hopefully, that is) to reach Eternal Bliss!
May God have mercy on an amoral Amerika!
Viva Cristo Rey!
Yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
Anyone who supports any MORTAL SIN in any way, is also guilty of that sin.
If unrepentant, they will burn in HELL for eternity.
CCC : ” 1868 Sin is a personal act. Moreover, we have a responsibility for the sins committed by others when we cooperate in them:
– by participating directly and voluntarily in them;
– by ordering, advising, praising, or approving them;
– by not disclosing or not hindering them when we have an obligation to do so;
– by protecting evil-doers.”
We must NEVER TOLERATE MORTAL SIN of any kind.
Those who post in the media in support of homosexual acts, or other mortal sins are guilty of mortal sin themselves.
They are trying to encourage others to sin.
They are trying to get others to approve of their sin.
They love their sin more than God.
Unrepentant sodomites can’t affirm the Word of God because it dooms them to ETERNAL FIRE!
Jude 1:7 – “Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of ETERNAL FIRE.”
Juergensen you are correct plus if they don’t affirm the Word of God, then they are not Christians!
Yup there is a lot of anti-Christs out there! And they are not Christian! They want to make you believe that they are, but they are not. Just like those who call themselves Catholic Christians, there are a lot of phonies!
Abeca, yes … look at all the heretical Pelosi-Catholics right here on this forum!
Abeca, Juergnsen and Daniel … Without getting detailed or graphic about it , generally…do you ever commit mortal sins? .. not necessarly sexual sins? Ever? I’ve always been taught that our focus ought to be on our OWN sins and not fixate on those of others lest we fall into arrogance.
Unlike the Pelosi-Catholics, I don’t go around claiming my sins are not sins. See the difference?
Focusing on your own sins means focusing on overcoming them, not getting on a Catholic forum and promoting mortal sins, C&H. That is what you do here. You promote and or downplay homosexual sexual unions as if they are somehow okay or not sinful.
So Catholics, looking to keep their consciences clean, MUST engage on a certain level to correct your very public error. Not to do so could be seen as a sin of omission.
So if you don’t want the discussion to turn down the road of the sinful nature of homosexual sex then don’t keep portraying it to be good and wholesome or at the very least neutral. It isn’t. It is mortal sin. Own that at least.
I’d rather be a Pelosi Catholic than a Boehner Catholic, who seems to entertain no compassion for the poor or the refugee. But in any case, I consider myself a Roman Catholic, as after all, it was the faith of Peter, neither Nancy nor John, that I was accepted into as I was being Confirmed into the Roman faith.
C&H…. I have committed thousands of mortals, but never once did I demand the Church to affirm them
So limited to think the discussion is between being a Pelosi Catholic vs a Boehner Catholic. Try actually living the Faith and promoting a life of sound morals and purity.
Pelosi-Catholics like yourself live and promote intrinsic evils such as sodomy and abortion. The issues of “the poor” and “refugees”, which you raise, are not matters of intrinsic evil but rather matters about which Catholics (and others) can morally disagree on how to address them.
For instance, a policy of creating jobs for the poor is no less moral – and arguably is more moral – than a policy of endless handouts that create dependency on government. Same for immigration: “The Church recognizes the right of a sovereign state to control its borders in furtherance of the common good.”
You are gravely mistaken in trying to equate intrinsic evils such as sodomy and abortion to things like economic or immigration policy.
I agree Juergensen!
Could someone please define “committed”? Is it just a promise for life or is it a judgment that can be made only after the death of one partner? If the relationship breaks up, even after many years, what happens to the commitment or was it indeed a committed but still temporary relationship? How can commitment admit of decommitment?
“Committed”, as in “committed members of NAMBLA”.
Caroline, I’m not exactly sure what you are asking. If you are asking what same sex couples mean when they make a commitment to each other in marriage, it is the same commitment straight couples make: to a lifetime commitment, in sickness and health, in wealth or poverty, to be by each others side no matter what. It’s pretty simple, really!
Except that they are ‘committing’ to consigning their supposed beloved to a lifetime’s accommodation in the commission of that which is an abomination before God. That is in no way comparable to marriage.
Ann Malley, it would be nice if for once you didn’t follow me around and comment on every single post I ever make here, committing to disagree with it, regardless of what it says. Nonetheless, if you want to stalk me here, I will respond because it seems to flatter you. You appear to enjoy losing in your various debates, so I will indulge.
No marriage vows that I am aware of commit to any sexual act. Neither straight State vows, nor Catholic vows, nor Jewish vows, none of them commit to any sexual act whatsoever. The marriage commitment is not, actually, a commitment to have sex. People don’t need marriage, especially a civil marriage license, in order to “commit” to having sex. Neither do straight people. If marriage has anything to do with sex (and I am not saying that it doesn’t), then marriage vows exist to put sex into the context of a deeper, longer lasting, and more complete commitment. And it is exactly this way for gay people, as it has been for generations for straight people.
To see this, all we need do is look to the example of The Holy Family. The marriage between Mary and Joseph was obviously not a commitment to have sex. It was a commitment to honor and be faithful to each other, for the good of the family, until death took Joseph, and then Jesus, who went on to supply John as her son. The Church rightly upholds The Holy Family as the ultimate example of marriage and family, even in the absence of sex.
Your gross assertions against the Faith and moral law on a Catholic blog beg attention, YFC. You make this too personal, although your anti-Catholic agenda is rather transparent.
That said, equating homosexual unions as having any relation to the Holy Family is blasphemous. For whereas Mary and Joseph were supported by grace to avoid the physical, the entire basis for homosexual unions is being sexually attracted to one of the same sex. I recall you stating to me before that certain physiological reactions were the undeniable indicator of one’s being a homosexual.
So whereas a man and woman can abstain from sex within the confines of marriage if both parties agree, there would be no occasion of sin in living in close proximity as the pair are lawfully married and not tempted to homosexual sex which is still an abomination.
I’m sorry for your condition, but not for your proselytizing homosexual unions as somehow supported by scripture.
Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.
They totally had sex. Or “knew” each other.
Sex is a given in marriage. You can have a marriage annulled if it’s not consummated.
You can have a committed relationship without it being marriage. You can have a marriage without it being a commitment (50% of them fit that bill).
Half the kids at my Catholic schools had parents on their second marriages. Growing up in an environment like that, yo don’t tend to give much meaning to marriage.
Strangely, (to me) civil marriages between gay couples are more substantive than the Catholic sacramental ones. They’re forged in an environment of adversity, and really appreciated.
The impression I’ve gotten from most Catholics (and these are family members) is: Marry young (because it’s appropriate), have kids, and resent and feel burdened by each other for life… maybe not always, but often that’s the case.
I guess you give up. Heterosexuals in a marriage who choose celibacy (as The Holy Family did), are not sexless, attractionless, asexual robots. If the prime example of marriage are individuals who freely chose celibacy, then pretending them to be asexual automatons belittles their fidelity to the will of the Father. If you really want gay people to be “chaste” as you call it, celibate, is what I would call it, then marriage is not an impediment to that calling, it is an aid. And these couples need look no further than The Holy Family for support.
YFC – that is probably the best Christian/Catholic argument in favor of marriage equality that I have ever heard.
So you encourage, Hugh, a very poor creature in light of his open blasphemy of Our Lady, to ape matrimony and compare it to the Holy Family, YFC? Disgusting and anti-Catholic and highly uncharitable.
Binding oneself via false marriage to an occasion of sin (male/male or female/female) and then pretending that you would somehow merit God’s grace in such an abomination to avoid impurity is making a mockery of grace.
Whatever religious has given you support in this demonic malformation is no Father of Souls, but the Father of Lies. But you have revealed him very clearly and for that I am grateful. It is good to know one’s enemy.
Hugh you realize that you have just violated a dogma of the Catholic Church? How could Mary have been “known by” Joseph and remain Ever Virgin?
The perpetual virginity of Mary:
I was just quoting Matthew. But was taught the virgin birth was a one time thing, then Mary and Joseph had other children.
Guess I did have a bad Catholic education. That still sounds like medieval infill. There are a number of NT passages that contradict that.
Still. Comparing your sex life (or even lack of it) to Mary’s is in poor taste. You have to admit that.
The unmarried Christian is always called to the life of chastity, and to live it well. Anyone who says he is truly practicing Christianity, and yet commits mortal sins such as acts of gay sex perversions– is sadly deluded, and lying to himself!! It is highly necessary, for all the churches of today, especially our own Catholic Church, to teach and preach and daily instruct her faithful, in leading a good, chaste, holy life– and be an inspirational light for others, out in the dark, secular world! For those who will not marry, it may be hard at times, and lonely– but well worth doing— as to follow Christ all the way to Heaven, faithfully, is truly what we are called to do, in life, and any sacrifice, any price we pay, for that “great pearl,” is worth it!! There is no other way, than sanctification and the life of grace, the precious Life of Christ, through the Church and her Sacraments– to guide our footsteps, slowly, day-by-day, to Heaven!! We MUST seek the life of holiness, truly conformed to Christ! Sacrifice all, for this beautiful gift, which Christ purchased for us, on the Cross!!
In case there are any questions, bottom line, are we called to love God first, and then our neighbor? Okay, so if I love God, first, with everything that I have, and then I love my neighbor, doesn’t that mean that when God loves me, He loves me enough to correct me when I sin, he tells me, in the sacrament of Reconciliation, that I must confess my sins and resolve to sin no more? What’s the point of taking advantage of the sacrament if one doesn’t sin anymore after that? The resolution to sin no more in incumbent on gaining the grace of the sacrament and being forgiven. It’s not just a one way deal, folks. So, if you have a mind to continue to sin even after going to confession, forget about going. You don’t really love God, with everything within you, and your neighbor is going to get used and abused, the way that you use and abuse God. That make any sense? If you can’t muster up the idea that you have sinned and need to be forgiven in that sacrament, then it will follow that your sense of sin has diminished to the point of being non-existent. THAT is worse than just being stupid and sinning willy-nilly. It’s no wonder homosexuality is being debated. What does that person who sins in that way want?
I think I get where you a e going Life Lady, and I like where I think you are going. What i would say is that if you are loving of God with all your heart mind and soul, and you are loving your neighbor as yourself, then you are not, by definition, sinning. It is in the getting to the love of neighbor (or God) that we sin, and therefore are in need of reconciilation. We must always ask ourselves, of course, as I am sure you agree, how we fail to love our God and our neighbor. Our failures to love constitute our sin.
authentic love and the sexual act ARE NOT the same thing YFC….and you know it.
Sandra .. I don’t think anyone here is arguing that… My understanding is that we should make a firm resolution not to sin but that God knows we are fallible, imperfect, mortal and weak. Thus we try ..we fail … and we try again. We should throughout our lives try to draw ourselves closer to God buy among other things, loving our neighbor . I think this is where we differ from the Evangelicals who sometimes believe that at a a single point if life;s journey a person can be “saved” (“bolt-from-the-blue”) and thus is in a different or higher spritual catagory than those who are not “saved.”
Putting oneself in the occasion of sin is sin, C&H. Because while we do accept the reality that humans fail, many humans fail by design because they embrace the sinful lifestyle that promotes what they are supposed to avoid. Even an animal can learn that fire is hot and avoid going too close to the flame to avoid getting burned.
That’s why there is nothing sinful in the temptation to sin itself, unless, by our own free will and with foreknowledge of our own weakness, we place ourselves in those situations that tempt us.
So there is no evangelical, bolt-from-the-blue mentality to a Catholic avoiding the occasion of sin and spreading the word that that will help a person to keep from sinning. That is common sense and the engagement of common sense with regard to the human condition. For whatever leads one to sin should be plucked out as they say.
Passing on that message is charity and education, not superiority.
C&H, If what you mean is that you do not believe in “once saved always saved” as some Evangelicals believe, you are right on that one. No where does it teach in the Bible or the catechism that we cannot lose our salvation by mortal sin before we die. In fact, one cannot be saved unless one is truly faithful till the end, but it is unlikely that a person with good character most of his/her life would slip and commit a really serious sin before they die without repentance. One usually dies as one has lived. Furthermore, encouraging others to serious sin — such as encouraging them to “marry” a person of their own sex — is a serious sin in and of itself and causes one to lose the grace in ones soul and separates one from God.. The same if one knowingly gives the key to ones apartment to a friend, so he or she can have sex with an opposite sex partner outside of marriage, or hides expensive stolen goods for someone, or gives another person a gun fully knowing their are going to rob, burglarize of murder someone. One takes part in his/her sin by doing that. That IS Catholic teaching and is in all of the approved prayer books with an examination of conscience in them.
Love is not lust nor lust is love. The two shall not integrate and one shall not substitute for the other.
What is evil is convincing your neighbor that one is the other!
YFC, you do not love your neighbor if you try to drag him to Hell, by your promotion and approval of sodomy marriage.
“SandraD”: you are charitable, and admirable, not to respond harshly to “Your Fellow Catholic.” Your love for your homosexual cousins is true and real, the essence of Catholic teachings of charity, of hope for eternal salvation. Many homosexuals equate love with “acceptance” of their sexual perversion; love me, love my sodomy! What they “feel” is far less important than what they do, based on their Faith. If your love and devotion turns their present sexual sins into future chastity, they become in full communion with their Catholic Faith. What a gift! Do not be misled by homofascists that scream against you, demeaning your very real devotion, for something built on sand. You might very well be more popular with your cousins by saying, “it does not matter to God, as long as you love each other,” but that is a false sentiment, and certainly false as theology. Homosexual sex is wrong, and a mortal sin, each and every time it is voluntarily committed, including by your cousins. Trust your true love for them, and your Catholic Faith.
Calling someone a “homofascist” is hardly an act of love, “St.” Christopher.
IT may not be an act of love but it is a matter of fact
Canisisus, there is no “fact” of the matter when it comes to the alleged crime of “homofascism”, as it seems to be something conjured up by certain folks. Secondly, even if it IS a fact, our Commandment is to Love God and Love Neighbor. Who are you to dispense with love?
Conjured up like ‘homophobia’? So saying who are you to dispense with love regarding those who rightly defend the natural law?
Ann Malley: Fascism is not conjured up. It existed in large form almost a century ago. To try to equate a civil rights movement with fascism, as the term “homofascism” attempts to do, is simply a conjure.
On the other hand, for centuries, gay people have been reviled, proscribed, beaten up, turned away from the courthouse and statehouse, and belittled. Some of us refer to that historical reality (a reality that Archbishop Cordileone refers from time to time), under the umbrella term “homophobia”. Would you like to call it by a different term? I’m all ears! But then again, I doubt you have any interest in actually acknowledging the reality of homophobia any more than you have any interest in acknowledging the reality of fealins, such as the ones Christ had during the Agony in the Garden, because you would instead prefer to sit comfortably inside your own schismatic bubble.
If the term homophobia has grown out of the persecution of homosexuals, it is time you faced the reality that homofacism is borne out of the militant persecution of anyone opposed to promoting homosexual sex as normal, healthy, holy, etc. You cannot claim civil rights for one group – yours – and then trample those of others who exercise freedom of religion in so far as speaking out against what you promote. Especially when said promotion will negatively effect the lives of generations of children who will be denied the reality of what is the true nature of mankind. IOW: Wholesale abuse and negation of reality.
Even so, what you attempt to define as a Civil Rights movement is experienced by others as a Fascist overthrow of common sense and the moral law. You who equates ‘feelings’ to be equal with reality attempt to negate the actual experience of others who are disgusted to the gills with your passive aggressive movement. I say ‘yours’ because you seem to be a card carrying member of homosexual insert-the-blank first as opposed to the Faith you claim to espouse. And yet the passive aggressive is swiftly transforming to aggressive aggressive in all spheres of society.
So while you may paint true Catholic teaching as schismatic, you are wallowing in a homofascist bubble that will suffocate you and all those who mistakenly follow suit believing it to be the Good Witch Glinda from the Wizard of Oz.
YFC stop harrasing Ann Malley!
I will propose, AM, that when rights of different groups of people conflict, there will be tension. And that is the tension we are now experiencing. But that tension should never be confused with persecution. Hate crimes, as tracked by the FBI, for example, are still very much higher against people perceived to be LGBT than against any Christian sect. (Jews recieve the bulk of religiously motivated hate crimes in the US). Murders of trans women happen almost weekly somewhere in the United States. THAT is persecution. A baker having to defend refusing service to a class of people….THAT is NOT persecution. It might be friction, but it is not persecution. And frankly, to call it persecution, actually belittles the genuine persecution for the faith that has gone on at various times and places, even today, and certainly in the early Christian era. If you want to claim to be Saint Agnes, go right ahead. But you won’t get very far with her, I’m afraid.
YFC is a militant homosexual who rejects Church teaching. The early Christians were persecuted. Modern day Christians are terribly persecuted. Black people are terribly persecuted, handicapped people are terribly persecuted and yes there are homosexuals who are terribly persecuted and so on and so on as far as the many different and varied reasons that people are persecuted. The moral of the story…Don’t offend God! No matter what group. Militant homosexuals are the ONLY group who want a court ordered bully’s license in order to force society into accepting, approving and affirming the disorder of committing unnatural acts or else they will viciously persecute even Christians, blacks and those handicapped people and so on and so for refusing to affirm homosexual unions and unnatural acts as being just another norm. IOW the militant homosexuals will even resort to hypocritically calling all of the other persecuted groups homophobic when those other groups who are already being persecuted. And why? For refusing to endorse and affirm homosexual perversion. Militant homosexuals might benefit if they realized how much they are mocking God and then reflected on the healthy meaning of these phobias…..hadephobia or stygiophobia. A fear of going to hell.
Once again….“So while you may paint true Catholic teaching as schismatic, you are wallowing in a homofascist bubble that will suffocate you and all those who mistakenly follow suit believing it to be the Good Witch Glinda from the Wizard of Oz.” ……… Thank you Ann Malley! Another gem!
I don’t dispense love to inherently satanic ideas….YFC
Then if you are such a champion of the persecuted, YFC, stop persecuting those Christian men and women who righteously advocate that one cannot indulge in and/or promote homosexual sex and believably call themselves a practicing Christian.
Be consistent, YFC. Know thyself! You don’t have to be a St. Agnes either or pretend superior victim status. Just be real and own what you promote. It isn’t carrying one’s cross. You promote homosexual sex and homosexual ‘marriage’ as somehow acceptable – even going so far as to blasphemously correlate such unions to the Holy Family. Sick.
So yes, the Catholic persecutions going on today are horrific. And yet those blessed souls are dying and suffering FOR THE FAITH. Not re-modding cross to a shoulder bag or abandoning God’s law for fear of being falsely labeled a ‘homophobe’ or ticking off some lobby group who wants to hold a ‘pride’ event that promotes filth.
So back at ya. “If you want to claim to be Saint Agnes, go right ahead. But you won’t get very far with her, I’m afraid.” And you won’t get very far with Catholics who have the Faith either.
YFC will likely argue, Catherine, that according to Fr. Barron, recently elected to head up a seminary *Libera nos a malo* has said that Catholics can *entertain* the prospect that Hell might empty. While that doesn’t exactly count as heresy, not precisely, it goes a long way into calling reality into question. Reality that there is a Hell and people do go there.
By that logic, we could *entertain* the idea that the perpetual virginity of Our Lady might not be – wink, wink – what “Catholics” – wink, wink – think. We could *entertain* that there is no Purgatory. We could *entertain* that Christ isn’t really present in the Blessed Sacrament: Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity. We could *entertain* that there is really no sin! WOW. OMGosh!!! We’ve hit the jackpot!
That entertainment theology – that is doubts just diddled with but never written into the crusty old official teachings – could really get a lot of folks thinking the Catholic Church is the place to be. A place where we can entertain ourselves right out of doctrine, morals, Truth and be duped into salvation? Hell could be empty right?!
Any charge of heresy will be denied because things were only entertained. Wink, wink. And look at how many ‘faithful’ are flocking to hear the Truth. Okay, not the Truth, but they’re in the pew, much like YFC!
YFC = Anonymous from another thread = blasphemous correlations of the Holy Family with that which is an abomination. Disgusting, Sir. God help you.
Ann Malley, Thank you for your post. The entertaining wink is in many ways so much worse than blatantly recognized heresy which can be called out because many of the eroding or gradually destructive effects of these wink wink statements will be hidden… but not to God. There can be very spiritually deadly consequences for ambiguity. No one will know if the people or seminarians who are taught this will think that they can risk committing serious sin because there might not be anyone in hell. A wink wink lukewarm suggestion to entertain the notion that hell might be empty is a great violation of revealed truth. What did Our Lord say about the lukewarm? I was also very disappointed when I saw those words coming right from Father Barron’s own mouth. Especially in light of the fact that he will be helping to form future priests. Father Barron should have also known better than to undermine the wisdom of even St. Augustine. That is what it sounded like to me.
It is surely a sobering warning sign of the times that Catholics have to remind our shepherds who should clearly know better. Even Our Lady of Fatima said that more souls fall into hell because of sins of the flesh. Our Lady showed the children a vision of hell and there was NO ambiguity from their reactions whatsoever about many souls being there.
continued from July 8, 2014 at 11:31 pm
Once again ……Ann Malley, We are mothers with children. Can you imagine the predictable turmoil and chaos in a household if a mother or a father give the winking impression that there will be no consequences for bad behavior?
Veni, Sancte Spiritus and please renew the wisdom of our shepherds which will help to renew the face of the earth.
And yet we still have those within the Church, Catherine, that are dutifully following along with the new narrative of swallowing and laying the lion’s share of blame at the feet of the sheep for supposedly not reading, understanding, and/or investigating what the Church actually teaches by way of doctrine so as to keep the Shepherds in check. Newsflash: That isn’t our job, but rather the job of those in authority. Those in authority know that and knew it and are the very same who keep perpetuating the shame game. Don’t let the authorities kid you even more than they have already. Our Lord didn’t tell the sheep, “Feed my Shepherds.”
Such an outright reenactment of Adam pointing at Eve and saying it is the fault of the woman YOU gave me is playing out right before our noses. The Adam in this case are the Shepherds who willfully stopped up their ears/minds to that which they were commanded by God Himself in favor of not loosing the comforts of a flock with increasingly itching ears and tantalizing pocketbooks that MUST be retained above all else.
But what a Catch-22 solution for blame shifting. Those in authority can claim it was the ‘laziness’ of the faithful (whom they are commanded to teach the Truth) in not knowing they were being misled. (Disregard the binding and gagging of those faithful – priests and lay folk – who tried to do as much all along.
…..These folks who actually did and do resist that which is false are only proud, this authority will declare. Yeah, that’s it. Don’t look at those bound and gaggied proudies. Guilt is a powerful weapon so the new walking orders are to heap it on you, the beleaguered confused, starving faithful. You are so unmerciful!
But if one calls leadership into question on the charge of misleading even today, one is shushed to obey and be humble and keep one’s place. Show gratitude for the scraps of Truth we allow you or else you’ll be branded as proud with the other uppity sheep.
So, yes, the entertaining wink is far worse than outright heresy. The Devil, after all, would be fought if he showed himself with cuffs and chains to drag a body into Hell. But if he comes with the robes of authority and the promise of chocolate in Heaven – the masses will follow like the dumb sheep we are.
And to those who take issue with being labeled as sheep, take it up with Our Lord who made the analogy for a darned good reason. He knows us better than we think we know ourselves.
“Show gratitude for the scraps of Truth we allow you or else you’ll be branded as proud with the other uppity sheep.”
Ann Malley, What you posted is true. Lazarus was once thrown scraps too. Lazarus is now rejoicingI One steady CCD poster always places the responsibility on the laity to read the Catechism and he once shared with us the reason for doing so. He said that he left the Church for many years and when he returned he was so humbled to be received back into God’s merciful arms yet he could now see the state of reality within the Church and with many in authority. This poster was so sorry for the time he spent away from being closer to God…much like St. Augustine and his contribution out of a profound humility is to consistently direct the laity to read and learn. He does not want anyone to make the same mistakes that he made and out of a great love for everyone he is reaching out by trying to direct people to at least read the CCC and the Bible. I agree that this teaching responsibility should be the duty of our shepherds but the times we are experiencing are uniting the small remnant for many are called but few are chosen.
Continued from July 9, 2014 at 5:03 pm
Ann Malley, Here are some of the other labels that have been marketed to silence the Truth: Rigid, Archaic & Stodgy. It has been my experience to witness even many good clergy members constantly walking on eggs because they appear to be hamstrung by those in authority who are first worshipping the false gods of today. If these good priests who do agree with Church teaching ever spoke out in the strong measure that is needed then their faculties might be removed for there is a greater fear of rocking the boat than the wiser fear of never wanting to offend Almighty God. A good bishop would demand and encourage each of his pastors under his authority to courageously and consistently uphold the fullness of truth with clarity. Today each parish has it’s own set of truths or values. One pastor will preach the full truth about Sodom and Gomorrah and another will say that it was a sin against one’s neighbor due to a lack of hospitality. Many have been deceived and many choose to embrace the logistical untruth or deception because it allows them to salve their consciences while embracing certain mortal sins. Eventually each and every single one of us will be put to the test and there will be no place or comfort zone to remain silent. That time is fast approaching yet still no one will admit that a giant boot is pressing it’s suffocating heel upon anyone who dares to speak the fullness of truth on a consistent basis.
Continued from July 9, 2014 at 5:03 pm
Ann Malley, The trolls on this website are a good example of the chokehold of undermining chaos that is swirling the diabolical disorientation within the Church. Imagine our trolls having the authority within each diocese to control what is taught and in many places this is exactly where we are. The gates of hell are rattling but the gates of hell will not prevail. In the End My Immaculate Heart Will Triumph!
Thank goodness Our Lady’s Immaculate Heart will triumph. That said, kudos to one and all who advise the faithful to read the catechism and be humbled before God Almighty. That is wise advice, especially when a vast number of our teachers would prefer to use the ‘Urban’ dictionary instead of what words and ideas really mean…. and lead to.
Here’s a cautionary tale about fundamentalist fanaticism.
C&H anything published by the inherently anti-Christ NY Times should be viewed as suspect in the least and satanic in the most
Including Ross Duhot’s articles?
Really, C&H? You talk about fundamental ‘fanaticism’ while doing nothing but promoting homosexual fanaticism. You promote mortal sin as benign. That in itself is a glaring cautionary reality and with no link
I don’t get my Faith from the NY Times, so I will not read your link CH.
If you want to read something constructive try the Bible and CCC. These are the facts.
Awwww Shuchks – Are the Alinskyite Trolls now going to burn down both the Church & the UN Too?
Talk about an out of control homosex hissy fit by mono-maniacle misandrist hatemongers – or the Demicrat Platform of POTUS Down Low Soetoro’s Age of Abomination…
Samey Same Still and All.
UN resolution affirming ‘natural family’ dampens gay pride festivities
NEW YORK — The United Nations put a damper on “gay pride” festivities last Thursday when it re-affirmed that the natural family is the fundamental unit of society.
The Human Rights Council adopted a resolution on “Protection of the Family” with a traditional definition of the family last Thursday, even as revelers readied themselves to celebrate gay pride weekend. It recognizes the importance of the family for society and individuals, and that countries must strengthen and protect the family.
The resolution not only echoes language from the U.N.’s Universal Declaration of Human Rights about the family as the “natural and fundamental unit of society,” it also states that the family is the “natural environment” for the education and development of children.
Michael Brown is one of the few journalists to expose the glaring Racist Bias of our bought and paid for ‘free press’ (and its Demicrat masters) shown by their Censorship of the Larry Brinkin Racist Pederast Toddler Rape Ring – run out of the ‘in-human-rights’ commission in Sodom by the Sea.
Ted Haggard, Larry Brinkin, And Glaring Media Bias – Michael Brown
And thus earned himself a special spot on the 900 Lb Mozilla Gaystapo Gorilla Hit List – kind of like us Prop-8 Supporters who would up on the “Lavender Liberal” stalkers list in Kalifornia.
Heir to both the Brinkin Posse and CHINO Nancy Pelosi’s congressional seat – Senator Mark Leno Earned the title “Kiddie Porn King” after his Brinkin Bill (AB 50) seeking to make such huge “Kiddie Porn” collections that delight his constituents a misdemeanor – Failed, Barely – after being Exposed.
SEE Fight over Jessica’s Law
Haggard’s Law (from Urban Dictionary)
The likelihood of a person harboring secret desires to engage in sexual and/or romantic activities with members of the same sex is directly proportional to the frequency and volume of said person’s vocalized objections to homosexuality.
An association fallacy, but an entertaining one. Btw, trying to transfer guilt for Larry Brinkin’s secret crimes to everyone he ever came into contact with, or vaguely shared political ideology: also association fallacy.
Sound like anyone you know?
You can’t compare Ted Haggard with Larry Brinkin. One was a national figure, the other is someone who might be influential, but no one had heard of him. One ended up being something he vocally opposed, the other was just some random creepy dude with a very dark side. One became a punchline, the other was convicted of felonies. Apple. Orange.
Ted Haggard had the bad luck (to an extent) to be one of several vocally anti-gay right-wing figures to be outed as hypocrites in a short span of time. He wasn’t the most virulent, but had terrible timing.
Level of relevance to the post on which you’re commenting: zero.
Urban Dictionary = perversion of what words actually mean into the made up language of those who desire to bash reality so they do not have to face it
So saying, by your logic, you would be forced to entertain if not endorse the supposition that those who so vociferously call out heterosexuals as haters actually hate their own perversion and harbor deep seated desires to act in the normative fashion of heterosexuals.
Urban Dictionary is useful. It’s just catches the meme-meanings of words. Lots of noise and junk in there, but if you ever feel like your teenager is speaking a different language, it’s a decoding tool.
As for homophobia being linked to repressed homosexuality, that’s an idea as old as Freud, at least. And there’s a body of evidence to support it.
Two studies covered here.
It makes sense. Strong visceral reactions being more about struggles with self acceptance than others’ personal lives… If you’re constantly dwelling on the graphic details of the sexual acts you would never have the inclination to otherwise consider, they wouldn’t be so constant…
Freud was repressed, Hugh, and obsessed with sex. There’s your body of evidence. As to my teenagers, they speak the same language I do as they have been classically educated. While they understand progressive speak, they do not converse in it as they understand too well the divisive nature of it. They also do not like appearing to be part of the ‘younger generation’ as they consider it no compliment, but rather an embarrassment.
That said, strong visceral reactions to perversion being promoted as healthy, good, and beneficial on a Catholic website is to be expected. Especially Catholics with children. The only dwelling going on here is the persistent dwelling of non-Catholics and openly homosexual sex advocates stirring the pot. So saying, you cannot provoke argument and then point the finger at those responding to said argument and then label them as repressed. Even Freud would tag that as tampering with data and/or not looking to the appropriate stimuli.
Ann sometimes you are just too hilarious for your own good. The editors of CCD are the ones who choose about a third or more of their articles to be about gay subjects, yet you say it is the gays who come on here to defend themselves are the ones stirring the pot. Perhaps if you don’t want gays on CCD, you could persuade the editors to not post so many gay related articles! And you might also try to not make every comment about homosexuality as you and many other commentators here do. I mean really, the number of articles that end up with long threads about homosexuality, even when the article is not at all about gay themes, all because supposedly straight members of this blog turn them into gay threads, is just beyond belief and far beyond what is called for. If ever there were a group needing some psychological insight, it is the regular posters here on CCD.
If you don’t like the attention drawn to homosexual sexual advocates pushing for the normalization of aberrant behavior then stop pushing for it, Anonymous. I mean, look to the topic of the article on which we are commenting, before you accuse others of turning something into a ‘gay’ thread.
For that matter, stop attempting to redefine Catholic Truth and teaching into poor-me gay hate and perhaps then you’ll get your wish. To be left alone. But you do not want to be left alone. Far from it. That is why homosexual activists visit this blog: to attack Catholics for actually believing and adhering to the Faith as handed down through the Church, not redefined by “psychologists.”
Gays “protecting themselves” on this thread is a complete farce with the rare exception of those suffering same sex attraction who actually advocate for following Christ in carrying their cross. And those good Catholic men and women are attacked by their supposed brethren. Hilarious? No. Hypocritical – in spades.
As for ‘psychological’ insight, you may have been freed from the ‘notion’ of sin by your therapist, but the reality of sin remains regardless of what you now accept, Anonymous. A visit to the exorcist might be what you need.
The homosexual sexual advocates desperately need to rid themselves of redundant redundancies.
Someone who has typed the words “homo-anal coprophile” so many times, in so many places, that it returns two pages of Google results (all from a single author and nearly every one on a different website) might be a little obsessed.
“Racists never imagine what it’s like to be like the person they hate, homophobes imagine it in graphic detail for hour upon hour.”
If you’re wondering why this blog attracts so many homosexual advocates, look no further than all the homophobes it attracts. Anonymous is right. Roughly a third of the posts are anti-gay… and more often than not, not even Catholic (this one is written by a protestant fundamentalist).
It’s more an anti-gay blog than a Catholic one. and in as far as it is Catholic, it only represents the right wing fringe… which is why stories like this one have traction. There’s more common ground between other fringe-right voices than other Catholics.
BTW – I Affirm the Joy of Christianity, whether you call it Gay or Happy or Joyful or a thesaurus worth of synonyms with the same Happy meaning.
I also affirm that the attempts to subvert and degrade such terms through use as sanitized misleading euphemisms for the Physically, Mentally & Morally Harmful Pathology of the Radical Homosex agenda – are simply Alinskyite Hate Propaganda….
– Gussied up like male drag queens acting out a hateful grotesque mockery of Catholic Nuns.
Not Just a Lie – but a Transparently Depraved and Disgusting One, enforced BAMN (By Any Means Necessary) by the 900 Lb Mozilla Gaystapo Guerilla gang seeking to infiltrate and destroy from within – all who Support Good and Oppose Evil.
My position should also appeal to the ‘church of nice/mice’ adherents too – given that we all intuitively understand that – Good is Better than Evil, Because its Nicer.
Favorite quote from the source article (not excerpted here):
“God did intend to legislate slavery in ancient Israel, but in a humane way and as part of a larger economic system.”
He would need to believe this, and every Judaic law and sanction in the Hebrew Bible, the unassailability of Paul’s every work, and presumably a literal reading of Revelation. Aren’t Messianic Jews the ones breeding the red heifer, and meddling (when possible) with Israeli/Palestinian relations to manipulate the world into their reading of end times prophecy?
He’s a fundamentalist. Messianic Jews have a misleading name, because they’re not Jews at all, they’re Evangelical Christians.
His opinion is an interesting read. He’s obviously a smart guy, but at best he’s reaching his own conclusions from the same source material as Catholic theology.
No love intended, “Your Fellow Catholic”: The use of “Homofascist” is entirely proper when discussing a political movement intended to intimidate citizens, and particularly Catholic ones, from speaking out against the many demands of the homosexual sexualist world. In fact, your attack on “SandraD” is a modest example of how homofascists seek to plant doubt, and to create internal discord, in their efforts to leave no opposition to their perverted life view. She spoke with words of true love, of Catholic charity, to, and about, her homosexual cousins. Sodomy is not ever OK, and is a mortal sin, every time. If you had a loved one engaging in this sin, for any reason, concern over their immortal soul would lead you to seek their conversion and repentance. Homofascists seek to keep their fellow mortal-sinners in bondage — any everyone else too afraid to speak up against them. This is very similar to the pro-abortionists and their insistence that any opposition — any — is “anti-woman” and “a war on women.” These are political slogans, of course: the difference with homofascists is that they follow you home, seeking to force loss of employment, and reputation; all far beyond having an opposing view point on an issue. Stay true to your Faith, SandraD.
Thank you St Christopher! : )
I’m sure that no love was intended. That was my point.
No, “Your Fellow Catholic,” your point was to sow whatever confusion or doubt that you could about offered comments being arguably inconsistent with Catholic teachings. See, e.g., your comment to “Canisius.” The Commandment to “love your neighbor” does not mean that one must accept his perversion and heresies. In fact, the Bible and Catholic doctrine, and Tradition, point to the need to correct those errors, and, as necessary, to fight them. Further, your objection to the reality of “homofascism” is difficult to understand. It has become an openly used term of art to describe the mindless bashing, and attempts at overkill, used by homosexual activists and lobbists to oppose anyone that dares to raise a voice in protest against homosexual marriage, say, or against homosexual adoption, or those who enable the strenthening of these alleged “rights.” Go ahead and demand this and that, the Constitution certainly permits this; but try to avoid demanding that “offending” people be fired (unless they are elected, then opposition to re-election is fair game), or have their reputation impugned, if they oppose you: that type of excess is “Homofascism.” Rest assured, the “Homosexual Movement” will collapse, due to its violations of Natural Law.
I think I am allowed to state my own point “st” Christopher, without your attempts to transcribe it into something that it didn’t say: Which was to point out very precisely that there is no love in these various comments in this thread, as you all now admit. And as there is no love, you sound like a clanging cymbal. Is it any wonder that we often hear 1 Cor 13 at weddings? Perhaps you recall that without love, we sound as though we are clanging. So when you all admit that there is no love in your comments about Your Fellow Catholics, you sound rather tinny, clangy, and off pitch. Compare and contrast Paul’s letter, with your own comments at 9:32 AM, and I think you will find something to think about.
There you go again, YFC, perverting St. Paul.
Stop asserting the modern interpretation of emoting feelings of huggy luv and mutual soppiness or affirmation of the respectability of that which is against the natural law with the true love extolled in the Gospel. True love is charity, YFC. The love of sacrifice, the true love of Our Lord demonstrated and experienced for our benefit. And charity is the truth which will remain after faith and hope are fulfilled. (The Lord disciplines his true sons, YFC. And that often doesn’t ‘feel’ loving.)
That said there are many who ‘love’ you and those who promote the homosexual agenda. I say this because they sacrifice time to dialogue with you, they sacrifice time in prayer on behalf of those attacking the Body of Christ and those within who are wounded and would be made prey, and they sacrifice their human sensibilities to see past the actions and delusions to the soul which should be kept pure for His sake.
If you want to start quoting Paul right now I suggest you quote Paul in his entirety and take seriously the warnings against what you promote. But you won’t as the Faith isn’t on your agenda…at least not on this blog.
If you don’t repent, Our Lord may just appoint St. Paul to your Eternal Trial!
May God have mercy on an amoral Amerika and His Church!
Viva Cristo Rey!
Yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
I might add, St.Chris, that the movement wil also collapse when they’re no longer the ‘useful idiots’ to the powers-that-be who are using them to create a breakdown of our society and confusion in our youth. All of these people should be deeply ashamed for promoting sneaky, unethical behavior that instills cynacism in our young people and deep sadness in older people who have been faithful citizens and tried to incorporate fair play and ethics in their children. The whole rotten mess stinks to high heaven. Men kissing men and ‘proud’ of it! Men unashamed to be weak and effiminate. Women parading their failure and weaknesses as though they were heroic as they thud along the pavement in their hobnail boots! (Sorry, but I’m a bit weak in the latest fashionazi wear) People that don’t give a damn about anyone or anything but their sexuality, and to hell with our country and our children and our future.
Spoken like a true sea snail! Slug on people!
Now you sound plain silly, “Your Fellow Catholic.” No, no clanging, or gonging, or anything else, just an insistence on following the Catholic Faith. Homofascists do not do this, do they? Why not? Answer: because there is no belief, no Faith, only insistence to adherence to a political dogma. Unfortunately, you do have many within the Catholic Church hierarchy — the “smoke of Satan” according to Paul VI, or the “filth” according to Benedict XVI — that agree with you, and may yet get an aging, and Latin American-formed Pope Francis to agree with them (remember, not all popes listen to the Holy Ghost). But we all know the right answer, don’t we? Your point of view is only that of a soldier of the Homosexual Sexualist Left, nothing more or less. Your many, many statements on a variety of topics give you no leeway to embrace anything else. Of course, there is always confession, but that is for believers, isn’t it? Read what “Dana” has to say — pretty powerful. Very few support the Homofascists any longer; too bad Cardinal Dolan’s happy talk at St. Francis Xavier regarding people coming out does not mean much to real Catholics. But, listen, enjoy worshipping the Golden Calf, but watch out for Moses when he finds out; and God is much, much worse. Repentance is always available, always.
I point out very precisely that there is no love in these various comments in this thread, as you all now admit. And as there is no love, you sound like a clanging cymbal. Is it any wonder that we often hear 1 Cor 13 at weddings? Perhaps you recall that without love, we sound as though we are clanging. So when you all admit that there is no love in your comments about Your Fellow Catholics, you sound rather tinny, clangy, and off pitch. Compare and contrast Paul’s letter, with your own comments at 9:32 AM, and I think you will find something to think about.
YFC, when people are trying to Save your Soul from eternal damnation, they do love you.
Homosexual acts (sodomy) are Mortal Sins.
If you are unrepentant you will go to Hell.
This should be easy for you to understand.
Cont’d. It is those who use our weaknesses to make obscene amounts of money posing as whatever passes as normal these days…the buyers and sellers of human flesh in film, magazines, music, television, advertising, etc…endless pressure on us all, and they can push their wares legally under the “noble” guise of free speech. Porn is the biggest “industry” on the planet. I mention this because I didn’t mean to imply it was one group causing our society’s implosion. It is all of us, ruled by our senses rather than our good sense. Adultery is adultery. Keep praying that our bishops will become stronger and more faithful in teaching truth for it is only God’s truth that will save us.
“gay-affirming Christians” = oxymoron
No unrepentant sodomite can be a Christian, for the Word of God tells us they are bound for ETERNAL FIRE!
Jude 1:7 | “Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of ETERNAL FIRE.”
“Although the particular inclination of the homosexual person is not a sin, it is a more or less strong tendency ordered toward an intrinsic moral evil; and thus the inclination itself must be seen as an objective disorder” (“Letter to the Bishops of the Catholic Church on the Pastoral Care of Homosexual Persons”, Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, 1986).
An OBJECTIVE DISORDER that manifests in an INTRINSIC MORAL EVIL!
A valuable compilation – and an ominous one too.
300 Articles You Have to Read to Understand the Term ‘Homofascism’
By ROBERT OSCAR LOPEZ
A challenging homework assignment: What is the pattern? What makes “homofascism” unique from other movements? Discuss. But you must be thorough — read ALL 300 articles. You’ll have a dissertation.
The compilation below represents the detective and archiving work of dozens of conservative activists. Thank you so much — you know who you are.
Yes, please, please, please read ALL 300 articles – twice! It will no doubt enrich your spiritual journey, reaffirm Catholic teaching, and bring you all much closer to Christ. Barbwire.com is truly divinely inspired.
The Intellectual Poverty Law Center – by Mike Adams
“…the SPLC has turned its efforts towards promoting intellectual terrorism against all opponents of the American Left.
Now, virtually everyone who disagrees with SPLC politics is branded a hate group and lumped together with groups like the KKK.
Recently, I learned that the now out of control SPLC has characterized the Alliance Defending Freedom as a hate group.
Their reason for the characterization was simply that the ADF opposes efforts of the LGBT community to impose its agenda on those who disagree with them for religious reasons.
There is no such person as a gay-affirming “Christian”.
Those who affirm the gay lifestyle (homosexual acts) work for the devil,
not for Christ.
Regarding homosexual acts: Gen 19:1-29; Rom 1:24-27; 1 Cor 6:9-10;
1 Tim 1:10.