The likelihood that the Supreme Court next June will announce its discovery of a constitutional right to same-sex marriage raises an obvious question for the Catholic Church:
What do we do now?
First, press for strong legal protections for individuals and institutions conscientiously unable to cooperate with a legal regime that requires sweeping concessions to the LGBT agenda. Second, give serious thought to the possibility that the Church should quit serving as the government’s agent in legitimating marriages.
That firm decisions at the top levels of the Church are urgently needed couldn’t be more obvious. Consider a Washington Post editorial trashing Alabama authorities for resisting a Supreme Court order on behalf of gay marriage in that state. The court told Alabama to get cracking even though the court itself remains months away from a constitutional ruling.
“The [gay rights] movement is on the verge of a historic victory,” the Post’s editors declared. “But that doesn’t mean activists and allies have succeeded in transforming the culture that for so long denied gay men and lesbians equal treatment.”
Transforming culture? Of course. The Post suggested some steps to take.
“Marriage equality is just one of many goals. State legislatures and federal lawmakers need to be convinced to enhance civil rights protections for gay men and lesbians — prohibiting employment discrimination, for example, or discrimination in business transactions. In places like Alabama, that will take a lot more effort.” One form it’s already taken can be seen not in conservative Alabama but libertarian Oregon. There the Christian owners of a bakery were found guilty of violating anti-discrimination law by declining — in 2013, before the state even recognized same-sex marriage — to supply a wedding cake for a lesbian couple. Bakery owners Aaron and Melissa Klein cited religious convictions as their reason.
According to the Oregon Bureau of Labor and Industries, the Kleins face fines as high as $150,000. The actual amount will be decided in March. A hundred and fifty thousand for a wedding cake? Is this the Post’s “a lot more effort”? Iron-clad legal protection against state coercion to fall in line with gay marriage is desperately needed for individuals like the Kleins and institutions like the Catholic Church.
It won’t be easy. The Catholic News Agency reports that the Ford and Arcus Foundations have given several million dollars to the American Civil Liberties Union and other groups to devise ways of blocking the religious freedom argument for not cooperating with same-sex marriage. If religious groups want First Amendment protections, they’ll have to fight.
Urgently needed, too, is consideration of whether the Church should stop registering marriages for the state. Increasingly, it becomes hard to see how the Church can continue as government’s collaborator in this matter once the Supreme Court makes it final that what the government means by marriage is opposed to what the Church means.
Confusion about the meaning of marriage is already widespread. It’s the underlying issue in the crisis of marriage that last fall’s Synod of Bishops on marriage should have confronted and didn’t. But the synod’s omission is no reason for the Church to persist in a relationship with government that deepens the confusion.
A two-step procedure — come by the courthouse for a civil ceremony that satisfies the state, then come to church for a sacramental marriage — may sound cumbersome, but it’s an opportunity for catechesis on what marriage means.
As secular America heads down the same-sex path, the Church now must go another, better way.
This story comes from a Feb. 20 posting on Real Clear Religion by Russell Shaw.
Shaw was secretary for public affairs of the National Conference of Catholic Bishops from 1969 to 1987.
So it seems to me unreasonable to seek $150,000 fine for a local baker/florist/caterer for a single violation of a civil rights violation. It would put them out of business, and all of us have to realize that there are always going to be disagreements about how a particular individual interaction with a client will be interpreted if a case goes to court.
On the other hand, if Exxon/Mobile consistently discriminates against people, a $150,000 fine is far to little. It is less than a slap on the wrist. So what if there were a fine that took into consideration past violations and the size of the business? What if a business were asked to forfeit, for example, 1% of their gross for the first violation, 5% for their second, 15% for their third, and 40% for their fourth. This would be fairer, and would actually create more change in the non-descriminatory behavior. Whether that behavior discriminates against African Americans, women, or LGBT.
Death by a thousand cuts instead of beheading. Is that your answer? God help us all.
Well, that’s not the way I would put it, but perhaps so. What I am saying is that a single mistake, perhaps innocently made either from ignorance of the law or simple misunderstanding of it should be treated differently than those who obstinantly defy it. Yes if you make a habit of discriminating against black people, or women, or LGBT people, yes you should be ultimately put out of business, but not for a first offense.
Thank you for your clarity. And thank God I work for the Archbishop.
“Your Fellow Catholic”: The decision against the Christian Florist is akin to a court enforcing rights over a “slave” because it deals with property.
The State is unable to create statutes impacting the exercise of religion, even if made by the owner of a for-profit small business (most of which are taxed, and otherwise regulated, on the same business as the owner).
The Christian Florist here has a pretty good chance of ultimately prevailing, based on the express promises and commands of the Constitution. Wait, wait — what if the US Supreme Court of Sycophants finds a “constitutional right” to homosexual marriage, to sodomites as a “protected class”?
Yes, Grasshopper Altar-Boy, that would be a problem. The Free Exercise clause would compete with, well, XXX clause that guarantees sodomites the right to, well, commit sodomy with the same benign smile from Uncle Sam as moral sexual relations between a married man and woman.
That would also mean that the Catholic Church would be losing its tax exempt status, at the very least. Further, as States would also be bound by this ruling, pretty soon the Church would not be able to get a permit, or license, or certification for repairing a leaky roof, or having a weenie roast (pun intended) at the Parish Fair, or serving liquor at the St. Paddy’s Day Dinner-Dance.
Put another way, the Church will not really have to worry about what to do regarding providing marriage; it will be out of business.
People who obstinately denied black people a seat in the front of the bus, at the lunch counter, or denied them employment or educational opportunities did so because of their religious beliefs. Or at least that is what they told us was their reason. Why should religious beliefs be a reason to ignore anti-discrimination laws for you, unless you also believe that Woolworth’s should be able to keep blacks from its lunch counters?
LBGT people can choose to financially support businesses who believe as they do.
They should stop singling out Christians and others whose legitimate religious beliefs are different than their chosen lifestyle.
Gays are purposely persecuting Christians and those of same moral beliefs.
There are plenty of bakeries and others who would be pleased to have homosexual business – including other homosexuals.
There is no excuse for this persecution of Christians by the LGBT.
“Your Fellow Catholic,” we all have a MORAL OBLIGATION, before God– to STAND UP AND “SAY NO,” TO SIN!! Where in the world have you been ? The so-called “LGBT” people cannot, before God, claim “discrimination” against them, for refusing them their wrongful, false “rights” to SIN! This has nothing to do, with discriminating against the LEGITIMATE rights due to people! Are you TRULY a so-called “fellow Catholic?” It is AGAINST YOUR RELIGION, and AGAINST THE LAWS OF GOD— for bakers, florists, caterers, or Justices of the Peace, judges, priests, ministers, etc.– to have anything to do, with immoral, unChristian, false “marriages!” God Himself applies the consequences for MORTAL SINS!! Regardless of mankind’s rebellious, sinful societies, and their rebellious, sinful, false laws against Him!! And by the way– “LGBT” people DO have legitimate rights, to all LEGITIMATE goods and services, that society and churches have to offer— and must NOT be discriminated against, for these rightful goods and services!! Food, clothing, housing, medical care, education, etc., are all LEGITIMATE needs, for ALL PEOPLE!!
With all respect, Linda Maria, it is not for you, or a baker, or a government to define who is sinful and therefore not worthy of equal treatment. We actually have a Constitution, one that we have all agreed to be the binding law of the land, that says that all people should be treated to equal protection of the law. ALL of us, not just the ones you deem to be sinful.
The protection of certain acts within the Constitution are not made moral simply by virtue of that presence therein. The “right” to abortion, the Constitutional protection of a heinous crime, is still deemed immoral and disgusting by decent people. Simply declaring it Constitutional does not make it so . With regard to homosexual “marriage”,,declaring a disgusting perversion Constitutional also does not make it so. Activist Justices cannot change morality.
Your Fellow Catholic– YES all people should be treated equally! However, Christian Marriage s a holy Sacrament, in the Catholic Church, and most other churches regard it likewise! One must NOT SIN, nor ABUSE this holy Sacrament! America was originally founded on Biblical moral principles! It is very important, to know your Catechism well, if you call yourself a “Catholic!” The holy teachings of Our Lord may be hard— but they bring ultimate happiness, and the necessary purification and sanctification for Heaven, to all who follow Him faithfully! The Christian life is the Life of Christ– NOT the Godless, pagan life, of the ignorant, secular, “fallen world,” in the ” Death Culture!” The Bible and Catechism explain all of this beautifully! For those with the “LGBT” affliction, there is the excellent group, Courage! All Christians must practice the virtue of CHASTITY, according to their state in life. We must all seek to live and to die, in a state of grace, and go to Heaven, with Christ! He died to give us Eternal Life!
We are not talking about sacramental marriage which is a point I have made repeatedly. And in case you were unaware, discrimination in employment on the basis of marital status is illegal in California.
Well it’s not Linda Marie who defines what is sinful, thankfully we have a loving God to do this and a Church to reinforce His laws.
Perhaps it’s time for YFC to stop the pretending and re-lable as there does not seem to much of anything Catholic that appeals to this soul.
“Your Fellow Catholic”: Good to see that you belong to the Chris Cuomo school of political philosophy. You know, where you believe that its the State, and not God, that grants us our “unalienable rights”.
All law comes from this concept, with the State, in reality, having no power, except what people agree to provide to it. Time to stop this, or be happy living in Satan-Dhimmitude.
Your “Fellow Catholic,” if you do not believe in Our Lord’s teachings, and reject His Sacraments— including the Sacrament of Holy Matrimony– then, you are neither Catholic nor even Christian! You have turned your back on God! You need a new name, and must NOT falsely identify yourself, as “Catholic!” Why don’t you read your Catechism, go see a priest, and contact the excellent “LGBT” group faithful to Christ, Courage??
You know Linda Maria, if you spent a little more time understanding people and a little less time judging and putting yourself up on a self-righteous pedastal (and spent a little less time reaching for that exclamation point!), you might actually have seen that I do believe in Our Lord’s teachings, I don’t reject his Sacraments, and I have not turned my back on God. Why do you find it necessary to belittle people, tell them what to do, and pretend that you are little miss perfect?
Your Fellow “Catholic,” the teachings of Christ are HOLY! Christ died to save us from sin! ALL of us! (And EVERYONE sins! That’s why Christ came, to save us all from Satan’s power!!) WHY do you turn your back on God, and challenge the most HOLY teachings of His Son, Jesus Christ?? Can you not see, that if we ALL stop our vain, “waste-of-time” pursuits in the Satanic “Death Culture,” and seek the Lord— we ALL will be BLESSED to find Truth, total happiness, and ETERNAL LIFE with Christ, in Heaven? Christ died to give us the chance, to go to Heaven, to live there eternally, with Him! Don’t you want Him??
Ummmm Linda Marie,
Wedding cake is ummm food.
It is totally useless, to try to pass laws, in a Nation that is morally and religiously illiterate, irresponsible, and hostile to all moral and religious concepts! Why seek to pass morally good laws, in a corrupt country, that has no concept of what you are trying to do– and resists you, to the final end?? Big waste of time! What America DESPERATELY NEEDS, FIRST OF ALL— is a Nation of truly moral and religious people! PERIOD!! America needs to be totally “re-Christianized,” by all the churches— and brought back to God, and to her true Judeo-Christian roots, once again! America needs to become a Nation truly PRACTICING faith in God, and morality! After that, good laws will naturally get passed! Everyone will naturally want to protect the sanctity of Traditional Marriage, Home and Family!! But first, everyone needs a good, solid moral and religious education, and daily practice! To “EDUCATE before you LEGISLATE,” is the key!!Otherwise– our Nation will simply be hopelessly lost to the jaws of Satan!!
Anti-discrimination laws are irresponsible and hostile to morality?
peter, seems to me that discrimination IS about morality.
(Discriminate – To make a clear distinction; differentiate.)
peter you advocating that we make it illegal to make clear distinctions. This makes you an enemy of Jesus Christ and His Church. If Jesus taught us anything it was that we have an obligation to discriminate between virtue and sin.
Thank you for defending the word discriminate, Tracy. Would that we could get back on track with the real meaning of love, charity, and mercy.
God bless
True, but on that same note, I doubt Jesus taught to discriminate unlawfully.
“peter” an idiot comment. First of all, every law discriminates, as do all religious faiths.
Jesus taught and spoke more than anyone about the reality of Hell and sin, and the need for repentance. All of this includes “discrimination” against Man’s willingness to commit sin.
You see “discrimination” as denying someone the benefits and privileges provided by law. This has nothing to do with the Catholic Church, or with Jesus Christ.
Peter, the Sacrament of Holy Matrimony, is a Sacrament of our Church– and most other faiths regard it likewise! We must NOT SIN nor ABUSE this holy Sacrament! All Sacraments are of Heaven, and convey the true, Divine Life of Christ! Know your Catechism! All Christians have the responsibility, to abide by God’s holy laws! All secular law, must originate from Divine Law! Today’s country, originally founded on solid Judeo-Christian Biblical principles, has sadly gone astray– like the “lost sheep of Israel!” Christ leads His followers out of the sinful, “fallen” secular world, and straight to Heaven! For those afflicted with “LGBT,” there is the excellent group, Courage! All Christians are called to practice the Virtue of Chastity, according to one’s state in life. Our goal, is sanctification in Christ- and preparation for Heaven! Christ died, to give us this tremendous gift!
Fortunately, in regard to civil marriage, your, opinion, doesn’t, matter.
Peter, why turn your back on Christ? He would like to save us all from sin, and take all His “sheep” to Heaven! Especially during Lent, we should think about that! Christ came SPECIFICALLY to live and die– for our SALVATION!! We are all made in the image of God, you know! We are NOT made in the image of Satan, and his dark, disordered, sinful, ignorant secular world, which fell from grace! All Christians are called to the virtue of CHASTITY, according to one’s state in life. We also are all called to see Christ in one another, purely— as souls made in God’s image! Christ gave us His holy Sacraments, to nourish us, fortify us, purify us, and fill us up with His Divine Life, and help us all get to Heaven! Why seek the “world, the flesh, and the devil,” and the egoism, and falseness, ignorance, blindedness– of the dark, sinful, secular world, that does not know Our Lord?? Waste of time– and you lose your soul, in the end!!
What do we do now?
Continue to say yes to good and take the consequences. Support those who are taking consequences.
I am a Catholic school teacher, who fully supports the Archbishop. On wonders if the New No-Nothings will ask the courts to rehear the Pierce decision (1925) which prevented an absolute monopoly of state schools. Q: Could schools that teach Catholic doctrine on marriage be declared illegal, as in Henry Tudor’s England (and Ireland)?
The author makes Great Points (kind of like I had posted earlier) – and shows us all a true way forward in public Witness that Catholic Values Have and Retain their own Value.
Expect Gaystapo Trolls to try Race Baiting and other Alinskite Propaganda tactics; Kind of like the homosex Tantrum Theater recently staged for the Frisco Media; to the mass marketing of pretend equivalency regarding Men & Women of different races Marrying…
– Versus the Church’s very Valid Opposition to pandering to the Disordered perversions & hatreds They are pushing; Opposition which angers them greatly and leads to mucho Misandrist tantrum theater productions.
Thus I say it is always better to ‘scroll past the troll’, regardless of where they act out their Anti-Catholic Marriage screed – Unless it is using Church Funds / Venues, which is Rong is myriad way and should be opposed..
In return – We as a Church must learn that Caesar’s Coin comes with Caesars ‘morals’ – or decided hostility thereto. We Cannot Serve Both in this Age of Abomination..
Homosexual “marriage” will probably be declared legal by the SCOTUS. Don’t wait for the ax to fall. The Church hierarchy should begin NOW with a two-pronged legislative plan for the protection and defense of the religious rights of the Church and the consciences of individuals. Secondly, I know Catholics who believe that homosexuals should be able to legally marry. The Church should begin NOW to educate Catholics about true marriage. This essential, basic catechesis will have to be accomplished from the pulpit and with free pamphlets distributed to those attending Mass. Many homosexuals are friendly, pleasant people, but Catholics need to know why homosexual “marriage” is a sin and that a Catholic should not attend such a “wedding,” nor in any way show approval to it, no matter how nice the people are.
Simple solution. Get out of the marriage business and stick with Matrimony. All marriages, because they impart CIVIL and SECULAR rights, benefits and responsibilities, should be performed by secular/civil authorities. This is commonplace in many parts of the world already, and said world has not come to an end. Religious organizations should remain free to decide who and under what conditions they will perform religious rights for, AFTER these individuals have been married by secular/civil authorities.
All of this, sad to say, was predictable mainly because the vast majority of Catholic Clergy its laity and the majority of fellow Christians and Jews cowardly refuse to speak out against this abomination. The majority is afraid of being labeled as homophobic, discriminatory etc. when in fact such labeling should be a mark of honor for Christians. When our Blessed Lord wore the whipped stripes on His back how dare we cowardly quibble over being called a homophobe in this increasingly sinful wicked nation. Stand up for righteousness, speak out!
Exactly right! The Church needs to divorce Itself from the government and refuse any government money. if one takes the
King’s Shilling, then one must step to the King’s drum. Drop the Government dough, bishops…be your ow n men.
Using the Lord’s persecution to justify homophobia might hold some weight if there was even a single quote attributed to him on the subject.
Hate to break it to you, but you can’t even say a majority of Catholics oppose same sex marriage. Southern Evangelicals, maybe, but acceptance there is lower but follows the same trajectory.
https://www.pewforum.org/2014/09/24/graphics-slideshow-changing-attitudes-on-gay-marriage/
Only 28% of Jews in the US identify as Orthodox or Conservative (Pew). The rest are Reform or unaffiliated with religion entirely, and see it as a cultural identity. As a group, Jews in the US are one of the most liberal demographics.
Catholics do not VOTE on morality – right from wrong.
Any Church or organization who votes on this can fluctuate with the whims of their membership on morality every couple of years or so.
Catholics use Sacred Scripture (a Catholic Bible) in ENTIRTY, along with the CCC for right from wrong.
About HOMOSEXUAL Acts:
BIBLE which is the speech of GOD (CCC 81) – – –
Gen 19:1-29; Rom 1:24-27; 1 Cor 6:9-10; 1 Tim 1:10; Jude 1:7.
“CATECHISM of the CATHOLIC CHURCH, second edition” – – –
# 2357, 2358, 2359, & 2396.
1 Cor 11:27-30 regarding condemnation for receiving Holy Communion unworthily; and
Jesus on Profaning the Holy – Mt 7:6.
Btw, God gave everyone a free will to choose Heaven or Hell based upon their own actions of omission or commission.
Jesus said MANY will NOT be saved. Mt 7:13-14; & Lk 13:23-28.
Hugh, the posters Mike and Abeca Christian answered you correctly! I will add one thing. Modern “liberal” Jews are called “cultural Jews,” NOT authentic, “religious Jews!” They have rejected faith in God and Jewish traditions, for the CORRUPT, immoral mainstream society, the “Death Culture!” They have also rejected the Biblical morals given to them by God! Jews and Catholics who have rejected God and Biblical morality— cannot be called “religious” at all, and are a FRAUD– thus, your statistics are FRAUDULENT!! It takes a lot of love, and MATURITY, as well as courage, humility, and self-discipline, to truly follow Our Lord! To follow Him, means you leave the secular world and its ignorance, sin, and filth, for something much better—the Kingdom of Heaven! Christ died to give us this great gift, Eternal Life, in Heaven! What good is a life wasted wallowing in cheap filth and sin— in the ignorant, immature “Death Culture?” The Devil cheats many, with his tricks, so why give your life to him? Christ is far better!
I will add something, to my above post to Hugh. Sexual perversions are NOT a trivial matter– they are DEADLY MORTAL SINS, which severely destroy one’s relationship to God, and destroy Divine Grace in a soul! “The wages of sin, are death,” to quote from St. Paul. We are all made in God’s Divine Image, and originally destined to dwell with Him in Heaven! We owe God our respect! Christ died to destroy all those sins, and open wide the gates of Heaven for us, God’s beloved children! He truly wants to save us, and to help us get to Heaven! Who cares about silly, useless popular opinion polls, amongst the ignorant??
The opinion polls merely refute Idaho Pete’s assertion that the vast majority of Catholics and Jews are opposed to same sex marriage, and intimidated into silence.
Just not true.
If the only argument in opposition is to apply your own standard of authenticity that discounts anyone who doesn’t agree with you, I guess 100% of Catholics and Jews (by your definition, not theirs) agree with you. Score one for subjectivity.
“Hugh”: HomoFascists love polls don’t they? First off, polls are entirely irrelevant to Church doctrine and behavior (or ought to be, although with the current crowd, you never know).
Second, most polls take the word of people that say that they are “Catholic”, although they rarely go to Church, or practice their Faith. Polls taken of faithful Catholics are normally different on a variety of topics.
Third, even if a person goes to church more or less every week, today’s Catholic has been lied to for decades about the importance of following one’s conscience, and the lack of sin for sexual events, that their views are not really Catholic anyway. In this way, people like you have already won.
Fourth, Satan controls much of the Church leadership already. Probably time for formally recognize this fact and prepare for a time when believers will be persecuted, not only civilly, but by institutional Catholics, who will become the new Pharisees.
You can go to hell for saying things like “Satan controls much of the Church leadership.”
You are following your conscience-probably.
Get to confession
Anonymous – I believe that there are good high ranking clergy, but there are Evil high ranking clergy as well.
” German Church declares independence before the 2015 Synod:”
“We are not a Roman Subsidiary”/ “We will preach the Gospel on our own.
“We cannot wait for a synod to tell us how we have to shape pastoral care for marriage and family here”. – Cardinal Marx, Archbishop of Munich and Chairman of the German Bishops‘ Conference.
(If they don’t get their way, they are pushing schism and heresy.)
https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2015/02/german-church-declares-independence.html
( Let us not forget that against the complaints of German Catholics a few years back, the German Bishops Conference sold pornography and books on Satanism for more than 10 years.
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/german-bishops-company-its-not-porn-just-erotica-so-were-suing-the-slandere )
Danneels supports sodomy and sodomy marriage, and was a Pope invited guest speaker at the 2014 Synod, and lies about Church teaching which states homosexual acts are mortal sins. (Sodomy marriage would also then be a mortal sin.)
https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2013/06/cardinal-danneels-not-opposed-to-gay.html
I am not even detailing here with USA Donald Weurl and Blasé Cupich who believe in Sacrilege – that those who choose to obstinately continue living in the state of Mortal Sin should receive Holy Communion (such as having sex with the valid spouse of another – adultery; and sodomy marriage).
…you can go to Hell for ignoring warning signs, too, Anonymous.
Polls are irrelevant to Church doctrine, but not to the assertion that Idaho Pete (and many here) have made, that there’s some kind of war brewing between Catholics and American society at large. It’s just not true.
Attitudes of American Catholics on social issues are following the same trajectory as other demographic groups. This is unfortunate for those who are trying so desperately to frame an ‘us v. them’ dynamic, or claim that this is religious persecution.
FWIW, Jesus could have been a golden statue or some other kind of inert object, rather than a human incarnation, and would still have said exactly zero on the topic of homosexuality.
Eusebius of Caesarea (260-341)
Eusebius Pamphili, Bishop of Cæsarea in Palestine and the “Father of Church History,” writes in his book, Demonstratio Evangelica:
“[God in the Law given to Moses] having forbidden all unlawful marriage, and all unseemly practice, and the union of women with women and men with men.”3
Saint John Chrysostom (347-407)
Saint John Chrysostom is considered the greatest of the Greek Fathers and was proclaimed Doctor of the Church. He was Archbishop and Patriarch of Constantinople, and his revision of the Greek liturgy is used until today. In his sermons about Saint Paul’s Epistle to the Romans, he dwells on the gravity of the sin of homosexuality:
“But if thou scoffest at hearing of hell and believest not that fire, remember Sodom. For we have seen, surely we have seen, even in this present life, a semblance of hell. For since many would utterly disbelieve the things to come after the resurrection, hearing now of an unquenchable fire, God brings them to a right mind by things present. For such is the burning of Sodom, and that conflagration!…
Saint John Chrysostom (347-407)
“Consider how great is that sin, to have forced hell to appear even before its time!… For that rain was unwonted, for the intercourse was contrary to nature, and it deluged the land, since lust had done so with their souls. Wherefore also the rain was the opposite of the customary rain. Now not only did it fail to stir up the womb of the earth to the production of fruits, but made it even useless for the reception of seed. For such was also the intercourse of the men, making a body of this sort more worthless than the very land of Sodom. And what is there more detestable than a man who hath pandered himself, or what more execrable?”
Saint Augustine (354-430)
“Those offences which be contrary to nature are everywhere and at all times to be held in detestation and punished; such were those of the Sodomites, which should all nations commit, they should all be held guilty of the same crime by the divine law, which hath not so made men that they should in that way abuse one another. For even that fellowship which should be between God and us is violated, when that same nature of which He is author is polluted by the perversity of lust.”
Saint Peter Damian (1007-1072)
“Truly, this vice is never to be compared with any other vice because it surpasses the enormity of all vices.… It defiles everything, stains everything, pollutes everything. And as for itself, it permits nothing pure, nothing clean, nothing other than filth.… “The miserable flesh burns with the heat of lust; the cold mind trembles with the rancor of suspicion; and in the heart of the miserable man chaos boils like Tartarus [Hell]…. In fact, after this most poisonous serpent once sinks its fangs into the unhappy soul, sense is snatched away, memory is borne off, the sharpness of the mind is obscured. It becomes unmindful of God and even forgetful of itself. This plague undermines the foundation of faith, weakens the strength of hope, destroys the bond of charity; it takes away justice, subverts fortitude, banishes temperance, blunts the keenness of prudence.”
When considering the opinions of Church doctors on issues of sexual politics, it’s necessary to also take into account that many were also rabid misogynists, human, and products of a place, time and culture.
It’s necessary to separate the theology from the subjectivity.
Saint John Chrysostom
“It does not profit a man to marry. For what is a woman but an enemy of friendship, an inescapable punishment, a necessary evil, a natural temptation, a domestic danger, delectable mischief, a fault in nature, painted with beautiful colors?”
“The whole of her body is nothing less than phlegm, blood, bile, rheum and the fluid of digested food … If you consider what is stored up behind those lovely eyes, the angle of the nose, the mouth and the cheeks you will agree that the well-proportioned body is only a whitened sepulchre”
Saint Augustine
“Woman does not possess the image of God in herself but only when taken together with the male who is her head, so that the whole substance is one image. But when she is assigned the role as helpmate, a function that pertains to her alone, then she is not the image of God. But as far as the man is concerned, he is by himself alone the image of God just as fully and completely as when he and the woman are joined together into one.”
“I don’t see what sort of help woman was created to provide man with, if one excludes the purpose of procreation.”
Hugh that is irrelevant, you can not compare the example you gave to acts against the natural law. Of course times change and people do to and things improve for women too but that has nothing to do with the Natural law. Our Lord spoke against acts of sodomy, lust etc….please do not mix things up by trying to rationalize away from the Natural law.
You are aware of the Instinctive evils? The example you gave isn’t even dogmatic.
Homosexual person are called to be chaste. The church considers homosexuality a disorder. We are to care for them by always speaking the truth to them. PAX Christi
There is nothing in dogma about homosexuality, or strictly speaking, even contradictory to same sex marriage. The language used does not specify sex or gender. It’s worded in a way that is wholly gender neutral … Contracting parties” … “marriage partners” …
https://jloughnan.tripod.com/dogma.htm
As for natural law, it breaks down a bit when used to deny something that clearly exists in nature, in consistent distribution across geography, demographics, and environments both welcoming and hostile. In that context it’s a misnomer for normative law.
Church doctors’ attitudes about women absolutely factor. They saw sex as something evil, women were tainted by being mere objects of temptation, redeemed only by childbearing and atonement for their nature. They had very twisted ideas about sex in general. To conflate that with theology discounts the theology.
Peter Damian was an ascetic
I would point out to YFC that discrimination based on sexual orientation is legal in California.
mike magee, it is not. In fact, the California Supreme Court has ruled that laws that deal with sexual orientation must withstand strict scrutiny. And there are numerous affirmative non discrimination laws on the books in California. For a review of them, see https://www.lgbtmap.org/equality-maps/profile_state/CA