The following comes from an Aug. 29 email from the Survivors of the American Holocaust.
Picture a busy street in Los Angeles or Washington D.C. Men and women rush by, distracted. People hurry along, heels click on the pavement, taxi cabs fly by. Everyone has somewhere to be, some place to go. Unconcerned that one third of this generation is gone, they go about their daily lives unaware that abortion affects them.
Suddenly, a 14 year-old girl drops on the pavement and curls into the fetal position. A young man kneels to chalk her outline on the sidewalk. Then another young person drops. And another. In moments, dozens of people have collapsed. Others follow behind draping blood-red silk over their motionless bodies. The crime scene has been staged. All at once, the hidden holocaust is revealed. People stare. The world can’t pretend anymore. Seeing these activists represent the forty-two million murdered annually across the globe, forces them to look abortion in the face and see it for the crime that it is.
This demonstration isn’t purely educational, it is powerful. And it’s just one example of pro-life activism.
At the International ProLife Youth Conference, you’ll have the opportunity participate in events like these. We’ll teach you how to become an effective abolitionist. You’ll learn how to run toward the cries of injustice and rescue those being lead to slaughter. You’ll be encouraged by international speakers, community and student activists, religious leaders and young people, like yourself. What unites them? They are abortion abolitionists. You’ll hear countless pro-life methods and testimonials. The IPYC’s visionaries are passionate about equipping you to make a difference.
Slavery wasn’t abolished because of rising awareness. Nazism didn’t fall because society began to discuss it. And the killing of millions of preborn human beings won’t end because we simply claim to be pro-life. We must RISE UP if we wish to abolish this atrocity. We must RESIST APATHY. We must RUN TOWARD THE CRIES OF INJUSTICE. Take action with us this November and become the generation that abolishes abortion!
Friday, Nov. 7, 6:00 pm through Sun., Nov. 9, 4:00 pm.
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Now’s your chance to register for the International ProLife Youth Conference!! Book your tickets today to ensure your seats at this life-changing event!! Email email@example.com for more information.
Excellent!! But first things, first! Get out the Catechism, and train everyone, like the Church used to do– in Catholic Faith and Morals! Why do all of these dedicated Church lay people not state the truth, of the MORTAL SINS that are taking place— BEFORE the abortion, the murder, occurs?? It is SEXUAL SIN!! Lack of RESPECT for CHASTITY, for VIRGINITY!! Lack of RESPECT for MODESTY in language, dress, and behavior! Pre-marital sex is ALWAYS A MORTAL SIN!! YOU HAD BETTER GO TO CONFESSION, IF THAT IS WHAT YOU WANT TO DO– BEFORE YOU COMMIT THAT SIN!! AND IF YOU DID COMMIT THAT SIN– YOU HAD BETTER GO IMMEDIATELY TO SEE A PRIEST, TO COFESS YOUR SIN, AND GET HELP!! DO NOT GO TO COMMUNION, UNTIL YOU HAVE GONE TO CONFESSION— YOU ARE NOT ELIGIBLE!! And oh YES!! A BABY IS ALWAYS A BIG RESPONSIBILITY!! NOT SOMEONE TO CONVENIENTLY KILL!! People need some RESPECT, even some good, old-fashioned GUILT and FEAR—- of GOD!!
Why is it “first things first” to get out the Catechism? Millions are dying with the sanction and subsidy of American government. If an arsonist were running wild in the neighborhood, would you say, first things first, get out the Catechism? Probably the fire department wouldn’t hire you.
Well b.1953, if Catholics would “learn” what’s in the CCC they would probably make better choices…..because, as Linda Marie points out…..if you die with mortal sin on your soul you go to HELL. We’re all sounding the alarm for our lukewarm Catholic (in name only) brothers and sisters who pick and choose what they want to believe instead of obeying God’s Commandments.
If you want to stop abortion– you first have to teach Judeo-Christian Morality, to all! First, Traditional Marriage and Family Life, is VERY SACRED! First of all– it is the duty of all decent churches, synagogues (etc.) and families, in our Judeo-Christian-based Nation— to teach young people how to live a good life, worship God, have a good moral conscience, and abide by Biblical teachings! Young people are leading sinful lives to begin with, of pre-marital sex, with birth control– and abortion– and many other sins! When young people are once again taught to lead good lives, of MODESTY, CHASTITY, SELF-CONTROL, RESPECT FOR LIFE, and VIRGINITY before Traditional Marriage– and NO BIRTH CONTROL, and NO ABORTION— then, we will have a far more mature Nation, with far less sin and crime– plus, far less babies conceived OUT-OF-WEDLOCK, for young women to KILL!! Our Nation must be re-evangelized, like early Christians in ancient Rome — and then, standing for Judeo-Christian morality everywhere, the CRIME of ABORTION would again be ILLEGAL!!
“…then, we will have a far more mature Nation, with far less sin and crime– plus, far less babies conceived OUT-OF-WEDLOCK.”
Let’s hear it for MATURITY! A commodity in very short supply these days. God bless you, Linda Maria. I like your plan and agree that much needs to be done. Shame and guilt are not wasted emotion as many have been mistakenly taught in today’s world.
Sorry, but both of you are way off topic, and you disrespect the point of the project as reported on in the article. Wars weren’t won, and slavery wasn’t stopped by telling Catholics to “get out the Catechism.” At the Battle of Lepanto, Catholic sailors weren’t on the boats reading the Catechism. At some point, action beyond prayer is needed to stop abortion. As Joan of Arc said, “God helps those who help themselves.” Thank God there are enough people of action among us, Catholics and non-Catholics alike, whose heads aren’t in the clouds and who understand this. By the time the two of you convert the world, it will have already ended.
Yes, by all means Catholics need to act. This is true. But children are our future and one must absolutely ACT to instruct them. And those ‘adult’ children who are pacified with pablum in lieu of sound doctrine is precisely what facilitates Catholics supporting that which is killing so many. So action is very much whipping out the CCC and teaching it vociferously. No doubt the sailors at Lepanto already knew what Catholic moral teaching demanded. That is precisely what gave them the strength to FIGHT. The fact that Catholics today DO NOT have these basic understandings is what has them voting in pro-death come every election.
That said, you missed Linda Maria’s proclamation of EXCELLENT!
And anything that doesn’t gird Catholic action with the actual teaching of Catholic moral principles is way off topic, b.1953. As action without understanding or firm purpose of WHY something is wrong is empty.
Linda Maria where are you living that you would say such an awful thing, that the faith use to do? It still does and it is doing so to whom ever attend and listen. To suggest so would bring other consequences that could sometimes produce unholy actions. To correct your storytelling, that isn’t just because of what it is trying to convey. I don’t fault you, people just love to repeat stories and actually they are the ones who also hurt the mission of Christ and His church. The people deserve the whole truth and not what people twist or what others want to believe. I understand your pain, yes but perhaps another approach that helps bring others in union with church is better than having people to think that the whole church is bad, is a gossip/lie that has always been in place since the beginning of time.
@ Linda Maria in Charity:
My father in law is a fallen away Catholic, grew up in the 40’s. He went to Catholic school where the nun’s taught, he left the faith before V2 started. Still till today, he keeps throwing it on our faces, that the nuns use to punish him severely. I tried defending our church, trying to get him to remember what little Catechism he remembered, he said nothing. There goes your analogy, your story telling. Pray for him to return. I hear the same excuses from many of our elders, who grew up in the good ole days? If they grew up in the church during those good ole days? Why did they leave it before the 60’s? Why are they the most hardened of hearts? Its sad I tell you. Some people are just set in their own ways I suppose, wish they were set in the ways of the Lord instead. I don’t deny that in these modern days there are issues but its not different than the good ole days either, from what the facts I found. Also from my studies from even during the times from the era of the doctors of the church. They all faced adversity! Just like we are having to do today. The answer is not to flee but we are to fight the good fight! When we bash the faith, we are denying the truth that it contains but if we understand that the church is run by humans, we know that it is not the faith that is imperfect but that it is men who run it so we must still remain faithful to Christ and His church because we are One Body with and in Him. Christ is our love, that keeps us moving. = )
I agree with your comments in being chaste. The church has wonderful organizations that are teaching chastity in dress, mind etc. The pray taht it will grow even more because we are in great need of that message. Its good that you keep echoing those precious teachings. Those working with our youth need to be reminded. Our youth can learn from that especially since there are many outside forces that influence the opposite. I guess we can never be comfortable in this life, there will always be sin. I like what St, Paul preached about reaching people on their level. Depending on the area, if the faith is less taught, we must reach our youth in their own level, its a process that requires patience. I have been around youth a lot. Many times my house is filled with youth because of my kids friends, some kids are very secular, I can tell you that sometimes witness works stronger than too much preaching on these kids. You should see some of the young ladies that are unChurched, now are wearing modest skirts or wearing their jeans modestly because of applying witness not using too much words but it took almost 4 years to get them to notice…..whew sure takes patience. God knows how we humans work, praise God for His patience and mercy.
I agree with you Abeca…..thank you for your charitable thoughts. I do have one issue with your statement “I like what St, Paul preached about reaching people on their level.” I don’t disagree, but even if we don’t “preach” our witness needs to be “strong and unified”. That’s the crux of the matter……many clergy and leaders in our parishes do just the opposite for fear of ruffling feathers…..how can any soul be saved without clear intent of our witness. Just like I’m not a “mind reader”…..lost souls will stay lost (and I’m talking about those right next to me in the pews) unless they start to receive clear instuction on moral/ethical teaching. I’m up against some pretty solid brick walls on this one. Any ideas on how to break through?
good thoughts, SandraD. That said, reaching out to the level of folks is really intended for those outside the Church. Those who are already Catholic and sitting in the pews need the truth, for otherwise they’ll be confused or unknowing about their own Faith.
Suggestion: Preach the catechism every Sunday without fail.
SandraD St. Paul taught that we should reach people on their level. Some are unchurched (even the churched that are secular) and don’t know any better. Being on their level does not mean compromising the strength and unity in which you are speaking about. Even St. Paul, if you read his letters, there were issues within the church, there where issues and disagreements. Even St. Peter and St. Paul bumped heads on how to go about spreading the gospel. They both had a different approach and didn’t always agreed.
SandraD some priests feel that their job is just to give us the sacraments, they do not want any confrontations. I feel that the scandals and the way this modern world view priests now, they have lost much respect. Every time they want to teach, someone will punish them for it and most do not come to their support. Everyone wants a hero and a martyr but they forget that our priests are human and not all have the gift to teach, preach etc. That is why it is important that our priests show their faithfulness by not giving their personal opinions but actually teach the faith through scriptures, the CCC etc. But this mess is nothing new….our church has faced adversity since its beginning.
Also SandraD there is a lack of unity as well within its members. That is where we can see people working against each other. Everyone wants to be right and and are self righteous. I can’t recall what saint quoted that it will take the lay faithful who will save the church. But I don’t see that happening when we allow others to work against our own. My faithfulness and all my love is for Christ and His church. I often have the anger of the lion, when someone from outside or someone who makes themselves an outsider, wants to bash this church, the true faith, that Christ, died for. It angers me when evil infiltrates it and it angers me when people don’t understand the truths that this church contains, the truth that saves in Jesus. As it injures our beloved Jesus, it also injures me. If men do not sin, then we would not need Jesus but as you can see, because of free will, it will have to be that free will that will only serve to truth, that it will be what it takes to really know who is for Christ or who is against Him.
Christ does not go against Himself, so His church will always be where the wholeness of the truth is, there to meet up with it’s sinners and it will be His church, where we will find salvation. Where we find Christ. At this point, nothing else matters but Christ. In order for us grow more virtuous, we must begin with Christ and His church. The sins of humans are simply that. Being meek and humble is understanding that we have no power over them but it is Christ who does. We just have to honor the will of our Lord, trust in His word and remain loyal, even if at times, its hard to do so. Even if others don’t.
Well you don’t have to understand where I’m coming from. Just fix your eye’s on Christ and His church. He should be our Alpha and our Omega. In everything that we do. Reflection John 17 and Revelation 1:8.
Like one holy priest once said to us ” it is the lay faithful that persevere with fortitude, that remain faithful that will see the glory of God in the end.” . I’ve learned what it means to have contempt for the world and applying a meek and humble heart in understanding that man has free will. The changes in this life begin with self, fearing the Lord with all our heart, with all our mind, with all our being.
“…some priests feel that their job is just to give us the sacraments, they do not want any confrontations.”
That is a huge problem as just giving the Sacraments without teaching the Faith is a negation of duty. No doubt that is why there are those who are churched but secular who just don’t get it. (How can they if they don’t even get the Gospel explained and reinforced at mass?)
“Being on their level does not mean compromising the strength and unity in which you are speaking about.” It surely does if the priests in question want only to distribute the Sacraments to an unschooled flock for fear of confrontation – even by their bosses. That’s not spreading the Gospel.
“That is why it is important that our priests show their faithfulness by not giving their personal opinions but actually teach the faith through scriptures, the CCC etc.” THIS IS SPREADING THE GOSPEL.
“…some priests feel that their job is just to give us the sacraments, they do not want any confrontations.”
Ann Malley, I agree with your response. That is an enormous problem. Priests are needed to be our spiritual director fathers. What married father of a household wouldn’t also like to distribute the paycheck and birthday gifts without ever facing or addressing the daily wear and tear of repetitively having to confront, guide and even discipline when certain issues are presented to them as a parent. Eventually an undisciplined child will often face the legal court system and the parent can ask themselves how all of this happened when they were always so nice and non-confrontational. Our bishops, pastors and priests are held to an even higher standard and like all parents they too will face God’s Supreme Justice if they avoided their duties for fear of confrontation.
Who in this life wouldn’t just love to “only” have to distribute beautiful gifts or pleasing information that would only bring joy. That is completely unrealistic but now our modern world and many within the Church have also embraced the culture of death ( artificial contraception and yes, even abortion) They now reject any information that runs counter to that comfort zone and it is seen as a bashing of one’s individual conscience and peace. Well joy works hand in hand with a surrender of trust and where there is No Cross there is No Crown.
2 Timothy 4:2
“Preach the word: be instant in season, out of season: reprove, entreat, rebuke in all patience and doctrine. ” Douay-Rheims
Well, thank goodness the children of the house are finally speaking up, Catherine, despite the cries of bashing that would otherwise silence them. Because since Faith comes through hearing, someone needs to speak up. And if Dad won’t do it, or cannot for whatever reason, it is the charitable thing for those who can to do what they can. That’s no negation that Dad is Dad. That’s loving Dad and helping him do the job he either cannot or will not.
I don’t think anyone is bashing the Faith here, Abeca. In fact, folks seem to be asserting a more firm and consistent need to teach the Faith which would actually help many who are inside the Church. Kind of a charity at home first so that our children can be the leaven of an increasingly secular world. I’m glad to hear of the programs for modesty! That is excellent news.
You write: “…Depending on the area, if the faith is less taught, we must reach our youth in their own level…” I would posit that Linda Maria is familiar with those areas. And what she’s advocating is teaching the basics.
That is why where faith is not taught correctly or fully and with true charity from the outset of a child’s life, children, even Catholic ones, will grow up and become hardened or misshapen in their Catholic identity – like a bent tree. https://parentsduty.com/Liguori's-Advice.php
I would not be saying that Ann if it didn’t come across that way. Hint….”the whole church has gone bad” “the church needs to teach this or that” as if it is not. Well I don’t need to go over this…its all there to have that conclusion. Just because you deny this, does not make me wrong either.
Saying the whole Church does not mean the same thing as the Faith, Abeca. That said, Christ is forever faithful to His Bride, but the Bride, comprised of us sinners, is no always faithful to Him. That’s more than just a hint.
Sometimes asking someone what the mean is a better approach than relying on hints that can and often are misinterpreted out of an overabundance of zeal.
Ann Malley I have been posting here for a while now, been there done that. I sympathize with your stand and those who are hurt but the approach we had, in being tolerant to that behavior has not united anyone anytime soon. In fact it has brought on so much more indifference because the lack of unity with Rome. I have learned that I am not be distracted any longer with the indifference but I am to seek unity with Christ and His church. To learn from Him, to seek Him, to fear Him, to not contradict Him, to love Him above all.
My faith does not rely on the latest good news or bad news of what is happening in the church but my faith is in Christ and in His church, the truth which it contains. Since Christ church does not contradict His Truths, I stand to defend His church but if man chooses to contradict His church and mislead others into thinking that they represent the church when they are dissenting, then they will not shake my love of faith in Christ because God has shown to us what humans and their sins produce, we ought to prepare our self and Armour ourselves with the truth, so we won’t be so easily deceived!
“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in the clothing of sheep, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.: Matthew 7:15
Our Lord warned us about this, so we are to Armour ourselves with His holy words from scriptures, with the teachings of the CCC, with the writings of His saints etc.
“… I have learned that I am not be distracted any longer with the indifference but I am to seek unity with Christ and His church. To learn from Him, to seek Him, to fear Him, to not contradict Him, to love Him above all.”
Again, Abeca, you are not alone in the above. That is why clarity within the Church is so very necessary, not out of malice, but out of love of Our Lord and His unchangeable Truths that are often hidden or misinterpreted due to the nature of language deemed to be pastoral.
Bringing people in union with what the Church actually teaches is what Linda Maria is advocating. And that is not borne out of a love of storytelling.
No not true, in fact:
God does not contradict himself. Advocating to read the CCC, Baltimore or scriptures and also stating in other articles or now that V2, the whole church has gone bad is contradicting enough. V2, the church owns all Catechisms. It holds the truth. Ann Malley, I say this with respect, and am not trying to demean you in any way, but it was you, who admitted that you are not in full communion with Rome. So I can see why you don’t get my point of view, I can see why you are tolerant of any tone of schism or indifference that often goes on here against Christ’s church. I am trying to correct an error that often happens here on this website. But you will work against me….It just seems predictable.
“Amen I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven; and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven.” Matthew 18:18
referring to Peter our first Pope, giving him the keys to the kingdom.
Abeca, God love you, but even the Catechism of the Catholic Church Edition I was modified to Edition II in order to clarify that which was unclear. Your vehement defense of the unalterable nature of Truth is admirable and a position I too uphold. But Vatican II documents contain some points that need clarity in today’s modern world, exactly like the CCC Edition I needed clarification.
That’s my only issue with VII documents. Please try to understand that as you consistently misdiagnose schism where there is none.
So again your ‘tone of schism’ response to any sort of attempt to understand and root out or clarify that which is unclear is off base. No offense. And Linda Maria is not promoting schism, nor is she adopting a ‘tone’ of schism. Read all of her posts and you will see that she is very much for the upholding of the eternal Truths of Holy Mother Church. She has been posting for some time too, yes? Not just you.
That said, absolutely there is the power to BIND AND LOOSE. But being clear about what is being loosened needs to be put out there in black and white. And gray areas as those regarding homosexuality and chastity between the CCC Edition I and the CCC Edition II needed to be clarified in all documents. Thank God they were.
So nobody is working against you, Abeca, in this regard. Please, stop looking for opponents where you have none. You are not the only one working for the good and, despite what you believe, those methods used by others to spread the Truth and the love of it are just as valid.
Ann Maley and you think that I misdiagnose? Well I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Wish we can talk this over several cups of tea or coffee and some pastries, for it will take more just a cup or a pastry to have a long discussion with you. Ann you are not honest, saying that I look for opponents where there are none? Really it is you who keeps contesting and self interpreting my comments, you and Catherine. LOL well such is life. The story tellers. = )
Ann Maley I know about the story telling in regards to V2. I know it too well. Remember I have a few friends who belong to SSPX and a few who left and are now in full communion with Rome. My friend who left the SSPX and now attends the Tridentine Parish, also another who attends a faithful OF parish, shared with me what some of her members believe against V2. Some are valid concerns, I don’t object that but the rest of their theories I know that they are way off base. Too long to post. the editors here have been so gracious and kind in allowing us to dialogue about this, why drag it further.
Now back to my friend, She first was trying to get me to leave and join the SSPX, but I didn’t, she used all the tactics you use here but of course she knew me personally, so she would have more power in presenting her arguments in person. Well that was in the past, she longer is a member of SSPX. I’m gad they are over, they put me through a very testing time in my faith. In how I viewed Christ and His church. But with much love of Christ, prayer, perseverance, fasting, and humility I knocked, sought and asked our Lord for answers, with a genuine heart, no agendas. Just little ole me and our Lord. I put long hours of sweat, tears and up most of the nights seeking and begging God for answers. God is merciful and I may not be able to defend His truths and His church as best as you would like me to, but everything that I do is out of Love for Christ. I love Him so much that I don’t want to ever betray His trust. If I lost Christ, I lose who I am. That is all. I don’t know how to present to you what He has shown to me. Faith is a gift. If there is a lack of understanding or indifference, it is due to sin and if you believe that I am wrong, then take up to my Lord, for I belong to Him, He is my love. I trust that if I am wrong in the way I go about doing His business, that He will correct me, because that is what I always ask of Him. Thanks Ann M God bless you and have peace in Him.
Abeca Christian, please, if you want to cut the story telling, stop transposing your experiences with your friends onto me. I have never once advocated that you ‘turn’ to the SSPX or stray away from Jesus. Your intimation that I would is so thoroughly confusing. I will not go so far as to say that you are being dishonest. That would be unkind and I have no desire to be unkind to you.
Regarding the issues with VII, however, nobody is making anything up. I’m glad you understand that there are valid issues there. That’s a start. We’re living through the consequences of teachings made somewhat cloudy. Hence the admonishment to have to interpret things in a traditional manner, things that, by rights, should have been written in a clear and precise manner. No story. No construct. Perhaps SOON there will be a call for written clarification.
Watch ChurchMilitantTV if you’d like. That is not to destroy your Faith, Abeca, but to fuel your desire to fight for Truth in all its fullness. That’s why the ‘tone of schism’ comments anytime realistic observations are brought up is also confusing. The best example we could be in the Church is to correct that which is unclear so that it will not continue to be misinterpreted. That’s evangelization in action as it shows charity beginning at home, something we all can agree on.
You write: “… I love Him so much that I don’t want to ever betray His trust. If I lost Christ, I lose who I am. That is all. I don’t know how to present to you what He has shown to me. Faith is a gift.”
This is extremely well expressed, Abeca, but I hope you realize that you are not alone. Those that you admonish as ‘story tellers’ or truth twisters are the very ones who are defending the fullness of Faith and lamenting its being hidden or denied or omitted by many in positions of authority. Not all, Abeca. But for many who experience gross abuses on a regular basis, it can seem like it. And that is not story telling either, but suffering. Suffering the Faith. If one did not have the Faith or love the Faith, one wouldn’t care enough to lament that which is occurring. I trust you understand as much and compassionate those carrying such a cross.
You state: “…I trust that if I am wrong in the way I go about doing His business, that He will correct me, because that is what I always ask of Him.”
This is a very good practice, Abeca, but again you are assuming that you are alone praying in this way. You are not. And you are not alone in your love of Holy Mother Church and Our Lord. So again, if you do not want to seek SSPX sources, don’t. But there are open door issues with VII that need to be addressed, doors closed if you will. Church Militant has a good sit down talk with Bishop Athanasius Schneider who is in full communion with Rome.
This is what I’m trying to convey, Abeca Christian. And I would hope you wouldn’t accuse good Bishop Schneider of the tone of schism.
Hey, where is Steve Phoenix?
Sorry if I sound uncharitable! Of course, we must always speak the truth, in charity! In the Gospel of St. Matthew, in the “Sermon on the Mount,” with Marriage teachings– Christ sounds a bit stern, but also, He sounds very mature! I have volunteered with pro-life work, for many years– and have always been strangely told — it is against the rules, to encourage people to reform their lives, to follow Christian morality! Of course, one should not stand up there, preaching mean words! However– our country, and our Church, fail to teach everyone, the importance of leading a very good life, morally, and the importance of the Traditional Marriage, Home, and Family! There are far too many PROMISCUOUS people of all ages, (including those in PAID leadership positions, in our Church!) who make PROMISCUITY their “lifestyle!” Then, we see millions of OUT-OF-WEDOCK pregnancies– and tragic ABORTIONS!!
“I have volunteered with pro-life work, for many years– and have always been strangely told — it is against the rules, to encourage people to reform their lives, to follow Christian morality!”
I cannot imagine how frustrating that must be, Linda Maria. God bless you for the good works you’re doing. And for reminding us of Christ’s firmness.
Linda Maria more story telling of ignorant people that told you….”it is against the rules”
Christ’s people are to live the gospel, not repeat the gospel of sinners. We have become so tolerant and have repeated the deceptive story telling that is what is ruling this country now. and it has entered the church. On the contrary….my experience has been the opposite….those who are faithful to the Magisterium, live their faith, form their conscience to those truths handed down to us by Christ and His church. They are moved, even in little ways, to fight the good fight.
Just because father so and so from 1935 went bad and dissented does not mean that the church advocates what he has dissented on and just because father so and so from 2005 dissented does not mean that the church has changed either. Times do change because people change but the truths remain the same. On dogmatic issues, on instinctive evils we are to be in one mind with Christ but the Lord allows reason and free will to choose Him freely. His church is there to instruct those who seek it’s truths, so we Catholics have a moral obligation to learn our faith and not be dependent on so and so, we are not excused from soul searching and seeking the truth.
Abeca, please cease and desist attempting to gag Linda Maria. If your experience is the opposite, thank God for it. Much like you should thank Our Lord that you have the options for a solid mass and parish. Linda Maria, from previous posts, seems to be living or has lived in San Francisco. Much different climate. You say yourself that there are locations where the Faith might not be preached as it should be.
Of course, Linda Maria understands that Truth doesn’t change. That is precisely what is so frustrating for her. At least going by what she writes.
Why you refuse to understand that is beyond me.
Ann Malley please cease and desist attempting to gag me….follow your own advice. Help Linda Maria grow more virtuous. By applying what Christ has taught and echoing His promises and His word to His people. Stop twisting my true intentions here. You are conveying that my intentions are to gag her, not at all. How foolish of you. Story telling again aren’t you. Twisting my charity is uncharitable of you.
You ask me to please…it is for your own agendas and theories that you most truly ask. Not for her benefit! I know that the truth threatens you, that is why you go after and gag me for my faithfulness to help others be in full communion with Rome. Anne Malley you don’t fool me missy.
Abeca, she says things to provoke just to keep an argument going. She will not stop until it becomes about HER. You’ve seen how many 100 comment threads are because she twists what people say. She will even ask a question to keep it going.
Then grow more virtuous by accepting what others in good faith say instead of labeling others as story tellers unless, of course, the story is yours.
Ann Malley you are not an honest one. I have already told you what was wrong with her statements (well actually I was responding to how her comments hurt the mission of the church and its lay faithful, how she throws all under the bus because of her prejudices against V2. but you felt the need to come to her defense as if I was attacking her which is clearly not the case, it was to correct an error) and you are still of bad will to acknowledge that. (Could it be because you have so much hostility towards V2, as to what you perceive it to be instead of understanding the whole truth).
I am not objecting to the truths that she does post but to the story telling of the ones I pointed out, she repeats the story telling from others, which are the obvious, is what I am speaking of. You are the one who need to understand this.
Now if you feel “gagged” by the truth…then get a priest to say an exorcism! Or if that is not the case, and you are the one who used the word “gag”…well this was dragged only by you, you kept responding for her, as if you are one with her mind? She apologized on how she comes across and I accept her apology but this was dragged by you missy. =) Now go in peace. JMJ
Why do you insist on calling Ann Malley “missy” making yourself sound much more like a disrespectful little brat than someone seeking virtue? Then you tell the person to go in peace with a happy face. Is that your idea of virtuous evangelizing? You told a story about your father-in- law. Have you been using that same approach with him and others? You are truly not being honest about your own penchant to bicker with your own Abeca. And that was way before Ann Malley ever arrived. That is not virtuous. Abeca you have been my closest friend on CCD so it pains me to ever seem unkind to you. I know you love the faith but you are being counter-productive with your misrepresenting what Ann is trying to seek and to clarify with your smart-alecky sounding “missy” approach. Also, Ann Malley has never once asked you or anyone to leave anything while you have curiously intimated that. Ann Malley was extremely open and honest about herself…much much more than our hidden activist aka k or anonymous.
Abeca, It is not a good sign or compliment that anonymous sees you as a weak link whispering in your ears while simultaneously defending drag queen shows at USD, gay anti-Catholic websites, lesbian plays and undermining good priests such as Father Guarnizo and anyone else who truly upholds or exposes and tries to clarify. Anonymous is very grateful that you are misrepresenting Ann Malley’s sincerely good intentions because Ann has a gift to express what many are unable to express and this truly threatens the comfort zone of the status-quo more than you realize. k-anonymous assailed me for exposing his or her defense of the homosexual agenda. Thank you for saying that you are always praying for discernment. It is one thing to want someone to be in full communion vs. attacking them uncharitably and making yourself not sound very charitable or virtuous.
Thank you for trying, Catherine, but I think some folks have a fixed mindset. Much like red means stop and green means go. Doesn’t matter if one’s looking at Christmas lights and not crossing lights, the reaction is the same.
Unfortunately, this type of stereotyping is often reinforced specifically to preclude the union of all those who should be united in the defense of the fullness of Faith. It’s a shame, but nothing new.
Linda Marie, you may enjoy this blog:
Premarital sex is a mortal sin, but not all babies who are aborted are a result of premarital sex. Around 13% are married and assumed to be pregnant from their marriage partner. In US that means 169,000 babies of married women are aborted each year. The statistic that shocks even those who work in the abortion industry- 72% of women who abort their babies are already the mother of at least one other child.
Linda Marie – it sounds like you have not read the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition” based upon your first post (unless it was a typo ‘Get out of the Catechism’.
The CCC contains ALL (not some) of the required teachings of the Church on Faith and Morals.
This includes but is not limited to everything you mentioned in your first post – 43 paragraphs on mortal (grave) sin, 30 paragraphs on chastity, 6 paragraphs on modesty, 7 paragraphs on fornication (pre-marital sex), 4 paragraphs on abortion, 55 paragraphs on the Sacrament of Penance (confession), and 23 paragraphs on ‘respect for life’.
For more info including quotes from our Popes on the CCC go to:
“What Catholics REALLY Believe SOURCE”
Linda Maria wrote, “… Get out the Catechism,” as in pick up the book.
Yes, Mike, I know the Catechism– both the Baltimore Catechism, which is excellent– and the newer one! I was trying, however, due to lack of space– to simply state, in general terms– that America was founded on Judeo-Christian morality, which was well-established, as our American way of life! Everyone– Catholics, Protestants, and Jews– accepted this, as our foundation! However, America has become a cheap, ignorant, immoral, rebellious, violent, filthy, Godless, hippie- liberal ghetto!! If all Americans could again be taught basic Biblically-based morality, (all Catholics, Protestants, and Jews, etc.)— and if this could once again be our national way of life– then people would again view abortion as a sin, and there would not be very much pre-marital sex, out-of-wedlock births, birth control, and abortion, any longer! Eventually, Americans would also change all their laws back, to reflect a Biblically-based morality, and abortion would again be illegal, and viewed as: MURDER!!
Linda Marie, I don;t know where you live but most of America is not a “cheap, ignorant, immoral, rebellious, violent, filthy Godless, hippie-liberal ghetto.”
SandraD do you watch Mother Angelica on EWTN? She addressed your concern about some of the priests who are not faithful to Rome. I wish I can go over all that she said, but she said, in short, that if you attend a parish that is poor in faithfulness to Rome, you can do either two things, stay and get involved, either through reporting the priest to higher authority, getting involved to help teach the faith, have dialogue with him etc etc or if it affects your kids and you feel that it is giving a poor witness to your kids, you can move and go else where. She explained it better than I am doing here, I am just summing it up. You will do exactly what the lay faithful have always been doing when they faced adversity, since St. Paul’s times, St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Padre Pio times etc etc etc….hope this helps. When I visited Virgina, we visited some good friends that use to live near us, they attend a very beautiful OF parish (N.O. Parish what some call it). We witnessed their pastor was very faithful to the Magisterium, their parish flourished, their flock are living Orthodoxy with conviction. They had 24 hours adoration, they had the CCC books throughout the church. They had free pamphlets that told stories of the saints etc. Wow truly a precious parish. My friend told her that moving there was a gift. This friend of mine, never read the CCC or knew what the early doctors of the church taught but when she use to live close to us, before she moved to Virginia, she use to attend my bible classes. We covered all those beautiful truths.
Yes, Anonymous— America has become a Godless, immoral SLUM! A WASTELAND!! This problem has also been referred to as the “Culture of Death!” Those who believe in Christ, and follow His teaching and morals– are now definitely in the minority, and greatly persecuted!! Very few Americans believe in the sanctity of a human life, and that abortion is MURDER!! America has become a tragic, evil SLUM– with new, false secular laws, to support evil and immorality– because that is what Americans of today, now believe in! Even the President! So– let’s turn this SLUM, this WASTELAND– into a truly good country, for Christ!!
“forty-two million murdered annually across the globe, forces them to look abortion in the face and see it for the crime that it is.”
Approximately 1 MILLION unborn babies are aborted each year in the USA alone for the convenience of others.
The Obama administration promotes abortion across the globe, by tying aid to poor Countries requiring the legalization of abortion, and promoting contraception.
(See ‘MEXICO CITY POLICY’ on the internet.)
The USCCB and their CCHD, Catholic Charities, and CRS partner with the Obama Administration for $63 Million Dollars annually in Federal Grants.
Is it any wonder that there is no “Unity” within the Catholic Church in the USA ?
Is it any wonder that there is so much “relativism” within the Catholic Church in the USA?
Should we partner with Satan for any reason?
CCC: ” 1759 “An evil action cannot be justified by reference to a good intention” (cf. St. Thomas Aquinas). The end does not justify the means.”
Cindy, let’s be sure of which we speak. Yes, CCHD and Catholic Charities in most diocese receive grants from the government. But, in disingenuous to speak of them as if they only come from the “Obama Administration.” They also received grants from the two Bush administrations, the Reagan administration, and the Clinton administration. Remember that it was the Bush administration who really pushed for faith-based grants, so that the churches, etc., could do the charity work of the country. It may be wrong, in your opinion, for these groups to take money from the government, but don’t lay all of your blame on just one administration. It is Congress who allocations the funds and makes them available to non-profit groups to help others. I think that it is important for all of us to understand the difference between grants and gifts. Grants require that the money be used for certain purposes, require strict accountability of the money, measurement of outcomes and standards to be met. For example, the money allocated to Catholic Charities to help the children who come across the border, yes illegally, was to be used for emergency food and shelter and helping to process the children and reunite them with their families while they wait for court dates. It isn’t a good system, but it is the best we have right now for helping people so that they don’t starve and have a place to live. Could the government do it themselves? Of course! But they are really not set up to do it like the non-profits are. Receiving money to help the immigrants is not an evil action. I might suggest, too, that until we stop eating shell fish or pork (Leviticus) that we stop searching for every phrase in the CCC that supports our political views.
Bob One – the Obama Administration ACTIVELY supports – ABORTION, same-sex marriage (sodomy), and Contraception, including using our tax dollars to support these.
(see ‘Mexico City Policy’ re abortion – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico_City_Policy )
This is truly evil, and Catholics should never partner with evil.
It does not matter what former Administrations may have done;
you can not blame former administrations for the actions of today’s politicians.
It is silly for you to even bother trying to divert blame.
We are not stupid.
The US Government as approx. 23 million employees of various talents.
They have the people and the financial where-with-all to fix their own problems that they create.
The Government will not let children starve in the USA, you are merely making excuses for a bad /evil partnership.
The USCCB and their CCHD, Catholic Charities, CRS should not be involved in taking money from any Administration.
As Catholics, we should do our best with what God gives us to help those in need. Not be dependent upon the government god.
CCC: ” 1759 An evil action cannot be justified by reference to a good intention. The end does not justify the means.”
Bob One, the Book of Leviticus in the Bible was instruction from Moses for the Priests of that day. You need to read the Bible in the Catholic perspective.
We don’t do burnt offerings, etc., today.
Regarding the CCC – it must be adhered to in entirety, taken as a unified whole (CCC pg 11).
You can not discard what you do not like.
“….the CATECHISM has raised throughout the world, even among non-Christians, and confirms its purpose of being presented as a full, complete exposition of Catholic doctrine, enabling everyone to know what the Church professes, celebrates, lives, and prays in her daily life.” – Pope John Paul II (CCC pg xiv)
“….. let us ask ourselves if we have actually taken a few steps to get to know Christ and the truths of faith more, by reading and meditating on the Scriptures, studying the Catechism, steadily approaching the Sacraments.” – Pope Francis, May 15, 2013.
It is a scare, that our Church really “partners” with EVIL! Since Vatican II, I and many others, have been unable to volunteer with Catholic Charities, and many similar Church organizations— because they fail to support Catholic teaching and morality! It is very painful, to volunteer where so-called “Catholics” are actively promoting immorality, even on-the-job— or leading immoral lives– and cruelly mocking the Church! For example– in San Francisco, the retired head of Catholic Charities, is an open promoter of gay sex, gay adoptions, and Gay “Marriage!” He also has used his big salary, and now, his retirement salary— to make big contributions, against Prop 8, and related Gay “Marriage” causes! He even has written very big articles on this subject, attacking the Church he belongs to, and has worked for, that were printed in the local secular newspaper– for all to see! And this is only one small case, of abuse to our religion! There is a vast amount of abuse, in almost all Church-related organizations, today! Tragic!
Linda, because one Catholic Charities doesn’t meet your, and the church’s, objectives for moral certitude, does not mean that they are all like that. The person you point out in your comment is no longer with CC/CYO and hasn’t been for several years. Like all charity volunteering, I think we have to pick those that are of interest to us and work with that program. There is a lot of good to be done out there. Every Catholic Charities unit does multifaceted programs. Don’t throw out the baby with the bath water. We are many parts, but all one body.
The USCCB’s CCHD, Catholic Charities, and CRS have no business taking $63 Million in Federal Grants from the US Government.
This money means that they have to follow government rules – even when it means violating Church teaching.
They are also violating the required Motu Proprio “On the Service of Charity” which requires violaton of:: Art 1 #3; Art 9 #3;
Art 10 #3 ” § 3. In particular, the diocesan Bishop is to ensure that charitable agencies dependent upon him do NOT receive FINANCIAL support from groups or institutions that pursue ends contrary to Church’s teaching.
Similarly, lest scandal be given to the faithful, the diocesan Bishop is to ensure that these charitable agencies DO NOT ACCEPT contributions for initiatives whose ends, or the means used to pursue them, are not in conformity with the Church’s teaching.”;
Art 11; and
” In carrying out their charitable activity, therefore, the various Catholic organizations should not limit themselves merely to collecting and distributing funds,
but should show special concern for individuals in need and exercise a valuable EDUCATIONAL FUNCTION within the Christian community,
helping people to appreciate the importance of sharing, respect and love in the spirit of the Gospel of Christ.
The Church’s charitable activity at all levels MUST avoid the risk of becoming just another form of organized social assistance .”
Cindy (Allie) , you are correct! This is tragic!
Everyone that supports life, needs to support these youth in action. May God continue to bless them and keep them safe. They are on the front lines for Life, while many just sit in their armchairs. I pray that everyone with even a speck of faith, get up, get out and join us on the front lines. Stand up for Life…. or you are part of the problem and will have to account for your inaction before our Lord one day.
Amen SandraD. It s a joy to see our youth involved in pro-life issues. I truly believe that they are the ones who will reach other youth.
There is huge dishonesty and hypocrisy on this website. You have mostly those who are bitter towards V2. I can sympathize with the disappointment that some have on some things, but often people get in a rut and keep a pattern that does not help them grow. V2, like it or not, has not become another church, it is still God’s church (holding valid Apostolic succession) and the Pope is the Vicar of Christ! PERIOD! Like a holy priest said to me ” we don’t have to agree with how it’s being run, its not a sin to disagree with alter girls servers etc ” . Ann Defends or stays silent when anyone that speaks UNJUST against V2. (we are all V2 now) She makes excuses for them and if one tries to correct any prejudices or correct the way it came across, watch out, she does not want anyone to grow more truthful about their actions away from God. I would of loved to have had a reasonable dialogue with her but it only ends up in insults, her interpretations to no end and it ends up in character assassination and ill assumptions, which I can get caught up in and I don’t like it either…look what they did to new comers assumed ill. So that is why we can’t have a reasonable dialogue…..its too bad.
If you are going to say things like “the whole church has gone bad” ” or its because of V2″ blame blame game these people do. They are not focused on Christ, His words and His promises. Their actions are denying that this is Christ’s church. The members who dissent, have spiritually separated themselves. I don’t deny that we are facing adversity from weak leadership. Yes we are! But we should be angered that evil entered the house of God! His church, not throw the whole church under the bus because man has free will and choose to defy it! Take it up to God through prayer done in Humility. ITS HIS CHURCH and it’s ours too because we belong to Christ! Take pride and take back His church, which we have never lost anyways. The wicked may think they are winning but they are not, they only entered because people sit back and do nothing or not enough, its only natural for humans to be lax and not work together. The wicked human beings will twist and try to take over the church, while we are arguing who’s fault it is! FOR SHAME! If we feel helpless, then always TURN TO PRAYER. Remember that is what Jesus prescribed!
Continued: This church is run by sinners but the faith is pure, the faith is the truth which the Church contains….don’t forget this is not the first time, in the history of the church, that it has faced adversity, that had to deal with bad popes, heresy, schism, nor will it be the last. Keep your focus on Christ…His body is the church…we are part of that, He is the truth, the way. If we have the power to make a difference and fight any adversity against the church, any lukewarmness, then by all means put your energy there. Its OK to lament and be upset, or be disappointed but remember how you go about doing it. You don’t want to throw the lay faithful with the bad either, that would be unjust.
Be well, Abeca.
Be well Ann Malley and you too Catherine.
I’m well. Praise God!
We must support programs like EWTN, Catholic Answers, New Advent, St. Joseph communications, the Ministry of Father of Mercy (which by the way, they are faithful to the magesterium and are priests who speak up and defend the truth and admonish sinners), support retreats like the spiritual exercises of St, Ignatius through Milies Christi and so much more….etc etc…..Magnify them instead for they ARE the lay faithful in full communion with Rome and they are the real deal!!
Not what some try to convey by even insinuating about homosexual activist, one poster once said “so this is what it means to be in full communion” They insulted the real faith and lay faithful by referring to a homosexual activist as being in full communion, when the truth is that he is not. Those are cheap shots against the real mission of the church, against the lay faithful and if you correct that insinuation, then you are objected by those who call themselves Traditional…..its poor representation of Traditional because I always through that being Traditional was being just and always seeking the truth in Christ. When our church is injured, we are injured because it injures our Lord too.
We have the wholeness of the truth, unfortunately there are some weak leadership that are magnified and have let the church down but lets, together magnify those good priests, leadership, programs, etc etc that are fighting the good fight, whether we agree or disagree with their style, God permits all different styles as long as they are in line with God, especially through these modern times, we need to combat the lies with what gets their attention. I, myself would prefer a more Traditional approach and even then I need to be better at it. God bless you.