….The visit to death row “was especially heart-wrenching, but even there, I saw a desire for a deeper spiritual life,” Archbishop Cordileone said in a reflection on the March 7 visit shared by the California Catholic Conference in a March 14 email newsletter…. “One of the condemned is even a Benedictine oblate, who renews his vows annually with the prison chaplain,” the archbishop wrote. “And all this despite the very oppressive conditions: a cell about 5′ x 15′, with a sink, a toilet and a table that doubles as a bed. They are confined in that space most of the time. And yet, the ones we spoke with were happy to see us and very conversant.”
The other prelates who visited the prison were Bishops Michael C. Barber of Oakland, Oscar Cantú of San Jose and Jaime Soto of Sacramento. The bishops heard confessions and spoke with inmates in the prison’s general population, as well as on death row. The men talked about “their unexpected trials, spiritual conversions and faith life while incarcerated,” the Catholic conference’s newsletter said.
Deacon John Storm, director of Restorative Justice for the Diocese of Santa Rosa, who also was in the delegation, said he was moved by testimony from one inmate in particular “who described a personal encounter with Christ engendered by his participation in programs sponsored by the Catholic chapel.”
“That encounter led him to drop out of the gang culture, where he was previously a leader or ‘shot-caller,’ and to seek a new life of discipleship to others,” the deacon said.
The visitors were required to wear bulletproof vests while visiting death row, or the “East Block,” which Gov. Gavin Newsom has promised to dismantle following his moratorium on executions in the state.
The prison complex sits on Point San Quentin, a 432-acre parcel of land on the north side of the San Francisco Bay. It has California’s only death chamber.
California, which last carried out an execution in 2006, is one of 28 states that maintain death rows, along with the U.S. government, according to the Death Penalty Information Center. In early January 2023, corrections officials said this year the state will start to move all inmates into the general prison population. As of Jan. 9, 671 male inmates are housed on San Quentin’s death row.
In his reflection, Archbishop Cordileone said that in his conversations with inmates in the chapel, he was “struck by the men’s sensitivity to the sacredness” of that space.
San Quentin “is one of the few prisons in California to have a dedicated Catholic chapel,” he noted, “and the men very much respect that sacred space, and feel aggrieved when others violate that sense of sacredness by irreverent behavior.”
“The ones I spoke with are very interested in what is happening in the Church, in Rome and throughout the world, and would like more access to information on that,” the archbishop said. “They are also very earnest in their desire to learn more about the faith in order to defend it against some of the inmates who criticize Catholic beliefs. They emphasized the need for more apologetics.”
“As I told them, I often tell people ‘on the outside,’ who have no knowledge of what it is like in a prison, that ‘Jesus is alive and well behind bars,’” Archbishop Cordileone added.
Full story from San Francisco Archdiocese.
Prisoners in San Quentin are spiritually healthier than the typical Bay Area liberal
Don’t be fooled. They are untrustworthy, hardened criminals, selfish liars, cheaters, and manipulators. San Quentin is one prison that has the very worst, most dangerous, horrible, hardened criminals, in the country. Can’t trust them. Very, very dangerous. Yes, they do need religious leaders to help them– behind bars, always, where they belong. The liberals who desire to “let the criminals loose on society”– are irresponsible criminals, too!
Cordileone said: “[The prisoners] are also very earnest in their desire to learn more about the faith in order to defend it against some of the inmates who criticize Catholic beliefs.” Wonderful! Those who are willing to defend the faith can be found also in prisons. Additionally, those who criticize the Catholic Faith are found not only among the commentariat in this blog but also in prison. That’s to be expected. Listen to the living Magisterium. Respect life.
There he goes again. He criticizes others at every turn, and then audaciously and erringly states that some commenters here criticize the Catholic faith. No one here criticizes the Catholic faith. Comments about issues with Church leadership is NOT an attack on our religion. Practice humility. Peace.
“Hermione” is mistaken because there are indeed a significant number of commenters here who criticize unjustly, routinely, and erroneously the Catholic Faith. Many comments here not only unjustly and uncharitably express issues with leadership in their temporal decisions but also express dissent with the Church’s doctrines on faith, morals, and liturgical discipline.
For example, many commenters here dissent from the fact that only the Magisterium, such as that which convened during the Second Vatican Council, has the sacred authority to hand-down to the rest of the faithful which aspects of the Church’s tradition should be observed: not Lefebvre nor the beloved SSPX. Just because Lefebvre and the rest of the beloved SSPX disagreed with the Magisterium on which aspects of tradition was actually handed down doesn’t mean that Lefebvre and his minions were correct. Another example: it is routine among the commentariat here to attack the Pope on his “Traditionis custodes.” Another example is the dissent that the commentariat here expresses concerning the Church’s teaching on certain life-issues such as the death penalty. Many comments here also deride the Second Vatican Council including the Missal of Pope Paul VI. Dissentful comments such as these are routine here. And there are more types. So, yeah, the commentariat here not only criticize the decisions by Church leadership on temporal issues, but they also dissent doctrinally. And this is wrong and that is what I correct.
Therefore “Hermione” is mistaken. Lastly, it is actually a sign of humility and docility to obey and defend the teachings of the Church “in season and out of season.” Plus, correcting blatantly erroneous comments here is never a sign of “audacity.” “Hermione” is very wrong there. You folks should be grateful you’re being instructed in the Faith. In fact it is a sign of pride and hubris for a Catholic to think that he/she can disobey the Pope and his bishops on matters of faith, morals, and discipline. Listen to the living Magisterium. Respect life.
Not to mention the people who just make stuff up or repeat scandal from irresponsible websites.
The Vatican Pontifical Academy for Life needs respect for life. They have betrayed the Catholic Faith, and have destroyed all the fine work of Pope St. John Paul II. The pope says he gives Communion to anyone, without Confession for serious sins, and never refuses Communion to anyone, for any reason. This is extremely disrespectful to God– and in total violation of Canon Law. The Vatican needs to be purged of all heretics and immoral evildoers.
“Reply’s” unsubstantiated comment above is what I meant about the type of comments found here. Instead of merely regurgitating here the trash that she finds from anti-Francis blogs and articles, “Reply” is called upon to prove her point by giving us objective proof that Pope Francis and the Pontifical Academy are “extremely disrespectful” to God, that they violate Canon Law, and that they are heretics and evil-doers. She is making an allegation against someone, a claim; those who forward allegations are duty-bound to prove them when called upon. By the way, by valid proof I don’t mean video-clips from Taylor Marshall.
Sorry, I am an older Catholic and do not know much about Taylor Marshall– but I’ve heard that he’s good.
On the Internet, I just read that Dr. Taylor Marshall, born in 1978 in Ft. Worth, Texas, is a former Episcopal priest of Ft. Worth, and that he and his wife left the Episcopal Church in 2006, and converted to Catholicism. And they have eight children. He is a former academic, and became a promoter of the Latin Mass and Traditionalism in the Catholic Faith. He is well-educated, and in addition to his M.Div. as an Episcopal priest, he has a Ph.D. in Philosophy from the Univ. of Dallas. He has written many books, and is known for his Youtube videos and podcasts. In reading about him and all his beliefs– he sounds a little like Bishop Athanasius Schneider and Archbishop Vigano. Anyway– it sounds like Dr. Marshall has done many great things. And best of all– Dr. Marshall is the one who personally funded the trip of the young Austrian, Alexander Tschugguel, and an accomplice, who stole the Pachamama idols in Rome and threw them into the Tiber. Dr. Taylor then uploaded the video of the incident, on the Internet, for all to see.
Reply to: I looked at up because of your comments here. Most Americans read at a 7th or 8th grade level. 50% read at a 6th grade level. In addition to not reading well, they are lazy and do not read past the headline or first paragraph.
All the things that you said about the Pope are distorted to make the Pope look bad.
You are either a very bad reader or an enemy of the Faith, yes the One True Faith, the Catholic Faith.
Archbishop Vigano and Bishop Schneider have been losing their grip on reality for the past several years. That’s happening to Taylor Marshall too.
No good and blessing is gained by the soul that uncharitably and unjustly maligns the visible Head of the Church of Jesus Christ, which is what Marshall does. Moreover, no blessing and graces descend upon those who believe in him. Sorry.
And for the record folks, “Reply” has NOT given us objective proof for her allegations that the Pope and the Pontifical Academy are “extremely disrespectful” to God, that they violate Canon Law, and that they are heretics and evil-doers.
No blessings can be given by a layman– Dr. Taylor Marshall is a Catholic layman. If you want the Pope’s blessing– go get it. But remember– his blessings are from God. Respect the Pope, but do not worship him. Worship only Christ. Abp. Vigano and Bp. Schneider can give you blessings, too– from God. Both are also world-renowned for their theological work. You do not have to agree with them, nor with anyone else. If your priest at church gives a sermon you don’t like– that’s fine, too. So what? But if he gives a sermon on something like abortion– and preaches that all women have the right to abortion– or if he preaches that gay marriage is correct, and Catholic teaching is wrong — speak up. Your kids with you at Mass, must hear only the Truth. If there are immoral clerics in the Vatican– say so. This Church belongs to Jesus Christ —- not to the Pope. Your religious practice, after lots of Catholic catechesis– comes down to only two people– you and Christ, Who is there, to help you get to Heaven. If our top religious leaders fail, they need correction– but they may not get it. In every age, there are always a few bad religious leaders, along with the good ones. In the end– it is always only just you and God. When you die– it is only you, all alone, who must stand before God, and make an account for your life. Nobody else will be there. Not your beloved husband or wife, nor your beloved mother, nor your priest, nor the Pope.
“Your religious practice, after lots of Catholic catechesis– comes down to only two people– you and Christ.”
OK. You are not Catholic.
And lay people can bless. Christ said so.
And Catholic priests don’t preach that abortion is a right or that gay marriage is a right.
Priests are given special spiritual gifts at Ordination. It is a wonderful thing, to receive a priest’s First Blessing, after their Ordination Mass. They often give their First Blessings first, to their parents– very special. You can also ask the priest to bless things, like your Rosary, even your home, etc. Bishops also give very special blessings at Masses. There are special graces in the blessings of priests and bishops. Do not confuse them with laymen, who have none of these abilities, none of their special graces. Bad Catholic priests and bishops have been in the news, for preaching that gay “marruage” is correct, and they perform blessings in their churches, for gay couples– against Church teaching. Also, there have been bad priests who preach that women have the false “right” to Abortion. You alone, must take responsibility for your commitment to follow Jesus Christ. No one else can do that for you.
Hermoine is totally correct.
“A sign of hope is the increasing recognition that the dignity of human life must never be taken away, even in the case of someone who has done great evil. Modern society has the means of protecting itself, without definitively denying criminals the chance to reform. I renew the appeal I made most recently at Christmas for a consensus to end the death penalty, which is both cruel and unnecessary.” (Homily at the Papal Mass, St. Louis, Missouri, January 27, 1999). Listen to the living Magisterium. Respect life!
Criminals are master manipulators, skilled deceivers and habitual liars. They’ll fake being spiritual if they perceive an advantage in doing so. The bishops should be skeptical about anything the inmates say to them about being spiritual. San Quentin is where some of the most hardened and dangerous criminals are housed. Pelican Bay is the other maximum-security prison in California where the worst of the worst are sent.
That’s not to say the inmates are irredeemable; just that skepticism in dealing with them would be prudent.
The liberal approach to being soft on crime has led to rapid and severe social deterioration in urban and now suburban areas of the state. Normal people can’t ride the Metro in Southern California anymore because it’s been taken over by druggies and gang bangers. Normal people can’t walk the streets of San Francisco or take their children to parks in the City anymore because there are addicts and discarded needles everywhere. Car windows get smashed in San Francisco routinely, and the cars’ contents are stolen.
If the San Quentin inmates think pretending to be spiritual will help them get an early release, they’ll fake it.
Jeremiah York, age 24, former Director of Liturgical Ministries and Executive Assistant to the Rector of the Cathedral of Christ the Light in Oakland, was arrested Jan 6th in Walnut Creek, for possession and distribution of child pornography. He is also a professional photographer, who took many photos of Diocesan events. He was dismissed from his job upon his Jan. 6th arrest. The horrifically evil news story is on the Oakland Cathedral website. Where are his poor, young, suffering victims? How many are there? Did their parents file lawsuits against the Diocese of Oakland? Upon his trial, conviction and sentencing to prison– do the Church leaders presume he could be “rehabilitated?” Why do we have this kind of evil situation happening, among Catholic clerical and lay employees– with no foreseeable end in sight? Our Catholic prelates had better get busy with this problem!
Just what is the point of this commenter named “Dangerous”? The allegation is about a layperson, not a cleric. News stories about this say the investigation is ongoing and no charges have been filed as of yet. In our system of justice a person is innocent until proven guilty. There has been no trial. Yet, this commenter is presenting this allegation as if it were true. This is wrong. This commenter had better get busy reminding herself about our system of justice.
You don’t get the point? Everyone does! We have too many criminals, today! Even in our Church! So what are our prelates going to do about this problem? Are our children safe– in our schools– and in our
churches? Are immoral heretics promoting evils like abortion and the LGBT agenda– plus hardened criminals in our prisons–being wrongfully “codddled” today, by a false Christian permissive ideology? This is a great danger to our innocent children and families — and to all society!
The problem with “Reply” is that she doesn’t read the comments of those responding to hers. Therefore her replies sound tone-deaf. And example is comment above from her. Just a gentle constructive criticism folks.
Everyone does read your comments, jon. But honestly– they are not worth taking seriously. You are always “tone-deaf” when you reply to other commenters, always ready to brandish your sharpest sword– over nothing. No “Christian love” nor attempts to understand others, or consider or even respect their ideas– in your brand of religion. You are always “battle-ready”—- over nothing. Just like the hyper-jihadist Muslims! Are you frightened or insecure, jon? Is that why? The old Roman Catholic Church is ancient– and the great big pope does not need your useless “battles” for his honor.
“Capital punishment is not a cure for the suffering and turmoil inflicted by violent crime; the restorative healing of victims and their families to the extent possible is an essential part of justice.” (Archbishop Salvatore Cordileone; March 13, 2019; on the occasion of the moratorium on the death penalty placed by Gov. Gavin Newsom of California). Listen to the living Magisterium. Respect life.
“Reply” writes: “No “Christian love” nor attempts to understand others, or consider or even respect their ideas– in your brand of religion.”
Where is “Reply’s” Christian love for Pope Francis? Where is “Reply’s” Christian love for Cardinal Mahoney, McCarrick, Cupich? Does she try to understand and adhere to the teachings of the Magisterium on life-issues such as the death penalty? Why is her every comment here about what she perceives to be the “evil” of the “leaders” of the Church? Does she respect the teachings of the Pope and the rest of the Magisterium with respect to the liturgy, appointments, and others?
“Reply” has no moral standing to be lecturing anyone here about their alleged lack of “Christian love” when her own comments display an irreverence, a hatred, and a contempt for the leaders of the Church, God’s own anointed.
“Reply” writes: “No “Christian love” nor attempts to understand others, or consider or even respect their ideas– in your brand of religion.”
This is false. All of my comments are loving, respectful, and reflect an adequate understanding of the comment I am responding to. “Reply”: Just because a person has expressed disagreement with your opinions, theology, and point-of-view doesn’t mean that that person is being disrespectful or unloving. Remember, instructing the uninformed is an act of mercy. Learn how to cope with criticism about your opinion well.
Additionally “Reply” may have no moral standing to be lecturing anyone here about their alleged lack of “Christian love” when her own comments display an irreverence, a hatred, and a contempt for the leaders of the Church, God’s own anointed.
I agree with Jon here. That poster always puts the Church in a bad light for no good reason.
Hermoine, I actually am shocked by the lack of conformity to the Catholic Faith on a Catholic website.
jon forgot to mention those who support the use of birth control, civil gay marriage and those who criticize the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.
Perhaps jon wants to promote and defend the Catholic Faith. But he refuses to see, that many top Church leaders today, are heretical — completely in rejection of the Faith that Christ taught. They make up their own wrong version of the Catholic Faith, and promote that, worldwide. They refuse to follow the Bible, Catechism and Canon Law. Like our very best prelates (Cdl. Burke, Bp. Paprocki, Bp. Strickland, Cdl. Sarah, Cdl. Muller, etc.) I do not support the immoral heretics. I only support Christ and His True Faith.
That right there is an attack on the Church. so you support Christ and His True Faith, but you do not support the Catholic Church? Am I understanding you correctly?
I support the Catholic Faith– not corrupt Catholic leaders. For example, let’s say you saw several of the Apostles, during the time of Christ– Peter, James, John, and maybe Judas– whom do you support? The corrupt Judas, the apostate and thief of the Apostles– and betrayer of Christ? The Catholic Church is Christ’s. It is not human, and only has mere human beings in the clergy who lead it. Some of these clerics are corrupt Judases. For example if you belonged to Fr. Rupnik’s group, and he tried to tell you lies and force you into a sexual assault from him would you believe he is correct? What if it was not Rupnik– what if it was gay-promoter, Abp. Paglia, head of the Vatican PAL — what if he wanted a nude painting of you embracing him, in his Cathedral fresco? Would you accept that? Now– what if Paglia became Pope? What would you do?
In Abp. Paglia’s infamous fresco, a local gay barber was used as the model for Christ. Abp. Paglia is painted in the fresco, embracing a man– and both are half-nude. The fresco depicts homosexuals, prostitutes, criminals, etc., with Christ. Who was the model for the half-nude man in the fresco, embracing Paglia– with all the gay men? What if your bishop did the same thing, in your Cathedral– how would you feel? Is this the true Catholic Faith? Do you want your mother, your grandmother, and your children to go to Mass– and see this?
Now you are saying that you “support the Catholic Faith.” You must believe in One Holy Catholic and Apostolic CHURCH,
Don’t use other people’s sins as an excuse for yours.
“Reply’s” position as stated is essentially Protestantism. Pope Francis is not corrupt. If you believe in anti-Francis media you might think that. But objectively, no. And neither is the Catholic Pope heretical. This is all bunk, perpetrated by enemies of the Church and enemies of the Pope.
“I commend the church in the Philippines for seeking to play its part in support of human life from conception until natural death…I also note with appreciation the church’s work to abolish the death penalty in your country.” Pope Benedict XVI to the Philippine bishops, Nov. 29, 2010. Listen to the living Magisterium! Respect life!
Looks like you have no information at all about today’s Church. Or else– you are probably not interested. If you really are interested, and do your reading correctly and intelligently– you may be very surprised! Don’t be fooled by human evil and incompetence. It exists all around you– and in every field, not just religion– and always has. You have to have an intelligent and honest look at things— and then proceed.The young American students you mentioned, are poorly-trained– but many also may lack intelligence to begin with. Not everyone belongs in school, beyond learning the “basics.” Do your “homework” regarding today’s Church— be sure to do it honestly and correctly, and don’t be lazy- — and see what you honestly come up with.
There has always been sin in the world, and always will be– in every field, including religion. You have to intelligently see who is truly good and sincere, very virtuous, and deeply committed to doing things correctly, giving their very best in their field, for the betterment of humanity. In every era, there will always be only a handful of excellent people, in all fields of endeavor, whom you can probably trust and count on. That includes the field of religion. I was taught that when very young. Carefully listen to, and carefully evaluate everything, in school, church, all fields of study– and everywhere in life— honestly and objectively. Then, you will see the truth. Otherwise, you will be tragically fooled and will not get very far. The Catholic Faith is logical, intelligent, and is Divine in origin. It is not a thing to mindlessly and fearfully submit to, not a thing to be threatened by, nor to threaten others with. It is not of some evil tyrant, demanding mindless fake submission, or you will be “burned in hell.” That’s stupid. St. Thomas Aquinas was excellent, he said that both Reason and Faith are necessary, in the Catholic Faith. Pope Benedict also demonstrated that Reason and Faith are necessary, in religion. Our Faith, given to us by Christ– is as true as any science. But you have to carefully and correctly follow it. And know the difference between good religious leaders and bad ones. Don’t follow bad religious leaders! They will have plenty to face, for their sins, someday, before Almighty God.
American adults read at a sixth, seventh and eight grade level.
You need to read the articles about these things that upset you much better.
I am taking about the book by the PAL, the “mayan rite”, whatever else is freaking you out. It is OK not to support or approve things. It is not OK to publish untruths about them on the Internet.
And I hope someone who puts these things on the Internet will care enough about their souls to remember the pillow and the feathers. Gossip is like an exploding pillow on top a mountain. “Now go gather up the feathers.”
Your injustice should be countered by you. You should go back and research these things you have written about and post an accurate comment about them. Reason and Faith do not co-exist with lies.
Reply to, slander and detraction are sins
Reply to me too,
Exactly how many of those men you mentioned do you even know?
I am so sick of these attacks on the Church.
As a Christian adult– we all have a responsibility to see theTtruth, always, and to follow Christ, and fight Evil and corruption on this earth. In all eras, there will be Evil to fight. In the 19th century, many valiant Christians, both Catholic and Protestant, fought against the sin of slavery. Some Protestant churches fell apart, debating the slavery issue. Christ told us, “Do not think that I have come to bring peace on this earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.” (St. Matthew 10:34-36) The religion of Christ is very hard, and requires deep commitment and courage.
The religion of Christ: Catholicism
My comment of Marchc21st at 8:46pm, was a Reply to “So sick of it.”
My comment of March 21st at 8:46pm, was a Reply to “So sick of it.”
You did not answer the question. How many of these people do you even know?
Did you just read a headline online or watch some slanderous video on Youtube?
“…and the men very much respect that sacred space…” If anyone lived in the dehumanizing conditions of a prison, they would by contrast see the chapel as an oasis from the degradation around them. Strange but my mind wanders to an imperfect comparison, to Balboa Island and Jamboree Blvd running down the middle, separating the two islands. There on Jamboree is a Catholic Chapel, humbly situated amidst the opulence of Newport Beach, and which stands in my mind as an oasis among the materialism surrounding it.
I can downvote others but not jon. I think the webmaster is suppressing downvotes on jon’s posts in order to cover his unpopularity or maybe to protect his feelings from getting hurt.
“Today the death penalty is inadmissible, no matter how serious the crime committed.” Pope Francis in 2015 before the International Commission Against The Death Penalty.
Of course, Pope Fancis feels sorry for everyone, even the worst, most hardened criminals, who have committed the most heinous crimes of Murder. Pope Francis also gives Communion to all, regardless, and violates Canon Law all the time, not requiring Confession and repentance of sin for even the most terrible Mortal Sins and heinous crimes, tearing up the Church and society. Is the next thing on his list– to abolish Confession as a Sacrament? And he also feels sorry for hardened clerical sex abusers– and never truly takes his Papal responsibilities seriously, to punish and correct them, such as the evil nun-rapist, Fr. Marko Rupnik. He could care less if the Church and society are unsafe! How many Canon Laws does he break, each day? Lawless, errant, extremely cowardly, fake liberal-leftist idealist.
How many times a day do you break the 8th Commandment?
8. THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS AGAINST THY NEIGHBOR.
COMMANDS: truthfulness; respect for the good name of others; the observance of secrecy when required.
FORBIDS: lying; injury to the good name of others; slander; talebearing; rash judgment; contemptuous speech and the violation of secrecy.
You are hopelessly brainwashed, abused, and threatened with hell– that’s very violent– you are not a true Catholic believer. Nobody is “breaking the 8th Comnandment.” Ignorant.
Former U.S. AG William Barr and Gov. Ron DeSantis– both Catholics– have a better and more comprehensive understanding of the use of the Death Penalty.
You say that Barr and DeSantis have a “better and more comprehensive understanding of the death penalty”? Not in God’s eyes. Barr and DeSantis, as much as you admire them, are not endowed by God Almighty with the charism of the Holy Spirit to teach the Church infallibly on matters of faith and morals which includes the issue of the death penalty. It is not Barr nor DeSantis that Catholics are urged by the Church to follow. Rather on this issue of the death penalty Catholics are urged to heed the teachings of Pope Francis and the rest of the bishops of the Church, all of whom have judged that the death penalty is inadmissible. Listen to the living Magisterium. Respect life.
Not all bishops and cardinals think the pope was correct, in changing Church teaching in the Catechism. Watch out for what the next pope may do.
“Death”: Do prove your point by identifying the bishops and cardinals who disagree with the Magisterium’s teaching on the inadmissibility of the death penalty. Please supply quotations from them as well as the date and occasion of their statement. Thank you.
Identify the prelates who disagree with the pope on changing the Catechism? What a big laugh! You know them, jon. So what? You do not agree with them. Neither does liberal-leftist, extremely corrupt,
Jesuit-educated, Gov. Gavin Newsom. Pointless. Keep your wife and kids safe from the crime-ridden world of today.
Here is an interesting article, take it or leave it– jon will not like it– fine with me, makes no difference. Everyone has the right to their opinions, and to discuss issues.
Sorry, I goofed on this link! Here is the correct one. Anyway, I don’t care, l aactually agree with the views of St. Thomas Aquinas, and Pope St. John Paul II, in “Evangelium Vitae,” on capital punishment. You have your own views– that’s fine. Cardinal Muller says the pope has the ability to change the teaching on the Death Penalty, as it is not a matter of Divine Revelation. That’s fine.
P.S. The Pope also says he does not agree with life sentences in prison, instead of capital punishment. I suppose you agree– as always– with the Pope, on this. Sounds exactly like immoral, corrupt, liberal-leftist, Gov. Gavin Newsom! Very dangerous! Does the Pope really care to keep the Church and society safe? Untrustworthy. Still waiting to see Pope Francis honestly punish dangerous sex predator clergy, according to Canon Law– and common sense– like notorious nun-rapist, Fr. Marko Rupnik– and get rid of them.
“Reply’s” P.S. comment up there is worrying because it is gross contempt and irreverence against the Pope. If she is a Catholic one should be worried about the state of her soul because by her words she consistently expresses schism in her heart and therefore may have already departed from the true Catholic Church in her heart. People, remember: “Ubi Petrus ibi Ecclesia” (Where Peter is, there is the Church). The devil may have already succeeded in luring her out of God’s Church. Beware people. Beware.
I did not know this:
38. According to the constant Tradition of the Church, the sacrament of the Holy Eucharist may not be given to those who deny any truth of the Catholic faith by formally professing their adherence to a heretical or to an officially schismatic Christian community (see Code of Canon Law 1983, can. 915; 1364).
Sorry but the ”Declaration of Truths” by Cardinals Burke, Pujats, and Archbishops Peta, Lenga, and Schneider does not contradict the Church’s present teaching on the inadmissibility of the death penalty in our time. Notice the past tense in paragraph 28. The Declaration states that the Church “did not err in teaching” that states may lawfully apply the death penalty. The present Catechism says as much in paragraph 2267. In the past, certainly the death penalty was inadmissible. The death penalty was admissible as late as the reign of Pope Paul VI. However, in our present time, the death penalty is morally inadmissible as stated in the Catechism. The “Declaration of Truths” does not contradict this. “Reply” has not proven her point that “not all bishops and cardinals think that the Pope was correct” concerning the death penalty. And she never will be able to prove it because the entire Magisterium is in union with the teaching on the inadmissibility of the death penalty in our time. Therefore, listen to the living Magisterium. Respect life.
Correction on one of the sentences in my previous post. The sentence should read: “In the past, certainly the death penalty was admissible.”
I gave you the link to the article regarding the five prelates and their “Declaration of Truths” because you love to read the opinions of the Pope and his top prelates– and you view that as something for you to constantly argue about, and “prove this, prove that.” You want arguments, and so-called “proofs” of things. Of course, even the most errant pope will be your hero, no matter what. Who cares? We all have our own views, formed long ago. No, I still have my copy of the Catechism from the early 1990s, and did not buy a new one, with the Pope’s update– waste of money. How shall innocent, good citizens of our society be protected properly, if there is no life sentence for murderers, no Death Penalty allowed on the law books, for a few horrific “rare” cases? And the unreasonable, irresponsible pope insists on breaking Canon Law all the time, refusing to admonish those who commit serious Mortal Sins, and tell them to “repent,” go to Confession! ” He says he does not believe in following Canon Law, on denying Communion to anyone– even those living horrifically sinful lives, or Pro-Abortion politicians. This is not Catholic teaching– nor even Christian.
The link that “Reply” supplies, which is a link essentially about the “Declaration of Truths”, does not prove “Death’s”/”Reply’s” point that “Not all bishops and cardinals think the pope was correct” concerning the death penalty.
No just deserts meted out since 2006.
How many abortions carried out in their dioceses today?
Jesus died a horrific painful death for us. So that our sins could be forgiven.
Every day you should be praying for God to forgive your trespasses as you forgive others.
“May Christmas help to strengthen and renew, throughout the world, the consensus concerning the need for urgent and adequate measures to halt the production and sale of arms, to defend human life, to end the death penalty…” Pope John Paul II’s message “Urbi et Orbi”, Christmas 1998. Listen to the living Magisterium. Respect life.
Modern improvements in the penal systems are not sufficient to do as the Pope desires, and end the use of the Death Penalty, even in rare or extreme cases. We have unimaginably huge numbers of highly dangerous, extremely violent criminals today, in America, Mexico, Latin America, and worldwide. Only in a situation of a well-behaved, decent society, of many families who are devout church-goers, and good communities, pervaded thoroughly by Christian Morality–in which the crime rate is quite low — can the use of the Death Penalty be reasonably abolished– as the Pope desires. The solution is not to have better, more modern penal systems. The solution is to effectively evangelize societies, and firmly establish Christian Morality. The explosion of violent crime today, is highly dangerous, and highly destructive to all societies. Some countries are close to anarchy and collapse of their governments, due to the overwhelming prevalence of extremely violent crime. California, aa well as the U.S., under anti-Christian, immoral, liberal-leftist political control, is veering in that direction. Very dangerous.
Violence and school shootings in the U.S. have becone too common, in today’s world. Today, Wed. March 22nd, in Denver, a 17-year-old juvenile delinquent, often in trouble at school, required to be daily searched for weapons before school– had a gun that showed up in today’s search– and the kid grabbed it and shot the two school administrators who were searching him. The two school administrators were hospitalized, one is in very serious condition. Police are still looking for the boy, who fled in his car. What did the boy intend to do with that gun, found in the daily search? Shoot up the school? Where did he get the gun– and where were his parents? No, our society is not “advanced,” except in scientific knowkedge. It is very “backwards,” full of sin and crime. Why was this dangerous boy even enrolled in school– instead of in a juvenile correction facility? Should corporal punishment be re-instated, for very bad and dangerous behavior, in the schools?
Well, they issued an order for all in Denver to Shelter in Place, while a bunch of different law enforcement agencies and FBI conducted a massive manhunt, for the juvenile delinquent with the gun. He was later found dead in the woods, outside of Denver. The death is now under investigation. One of the school administrators who was shot, was released from the hospital. But the other one is in very serious condition. Hope he will be okay. The school district that hired these two administrators, and all others they hired– should have been required by law, to provide them with a decent and safe work environment, at the school. The school parents said they had no idea at all, of the school’s policy of daily searches for weapons, on potentially dangerous students, with previous records of violent behavior. Law enforcement should have dealt with these juvenile delinquents, to begin with. The juveniles should have been placed in a juvenile correctional facility. And there should be strict laws about funding and hiring a good, well-trained police force, to protect a city, and send safety officers to the schools, etc. That is a huge responsibility! To deliberately defund the police should be a punishable crime. One news story said that the safety officers for this high school had been defunded — thus, endangering all at the school.
What on earth is our society going to do, in today’s world, with all of these violent criminals– as the Pope and his prelates also state, that not only do they believe in the abolition of the Death Penalty– the Pope (not sure about the views of all of his prelates) also does not believe in giving life sentences for murderers, who would otherwise be on Death Row? What on earth does the Pope expect? Does he care about the responsibility to protect the innocent?
Yes indeed the Pope and the rest of the Magisterium care. Violent crimes and murders are not stopped by more killing.
They are spineless and irresponsible cowards who want an essy job. They do not take sin very seriously.
I disagree. Killing someone who has murdered ensures and guarantees that he will never murder again. So your claim that violent crimes and murders are not stopped by the death penalty is false on its face. John is wrong.
I will put a last question to jon. Let’s say you were called to Jury Duty for a War Crimes trial, of a man that committed a vast number of outrageously horrific crimes– like Hitler, Mao Tse-tung, Joseph Stalin, etc. Or maybe an extremely dangerous, violent Latin American Drug Lord, who murdered thousands of innocent citizens, with his gang. Suppose the pope told you that in your Jury Duty, you could not go along with a punishment of either a life sentence or an execution. And they won’t let you out of Jury Duty. So– what do you do, jon?
“Disagree” is wrong. Executing a murderer while there are other ways to protect society short of killing him/her does not deter violent crimes perpetrated by other criminals, plus it violates the dignity of that criminal that’s been executed. It is therefore totally inadmissible.
And “Reply” should be reminded again that I do not entertain hypothetical questions.
Listen to the living Magisterium. Respect life!
This is not the same “reply to.”
jon, you do not answer the question. Of course, War Crimes are handled in a different manner. Let’s say you are on the jury for the trial of the leader of Al Qaeda, who ordered the horrific 9/11 massacre. And the pope says you can’t agree, as a juror, to even a life sentence in prison, for the violent murderer. What do you suggest, then? Be honest. What would you do, as a juror?
jon, if you do not care to “entertain hypothetical questions,” regarding real-life, serious situations– then you are not honestly living by your Faith, just reading nice books about it. You must go deeper. Our Faith is not just “in a book,” it is from Christ, and it is real. It isn’t given to us as a “nice book” to read. It is a practical Divine Guide to real life, as lived each day. How you lead your life, how you deal with your marriage, kids, family, friends, business, job, etc.– and all life situations– are all guided by your Faith. I already feel prepared, if I am ever called for Jury Duty, on an extreme case. And I am prepared to cast my vote, when it comes to elections of politicians and officials, on the matter of capital punishment. I am also prepared to cast my vote, if we are again called, in an election, to state our “yes” or “no” answer to the question, “should the State of Calif. keep the Death Penalty on the books?” You have to be prepared too, jon.
This is always what happens. When people want to do something wrong, they compare it to hypothetical extreme situations.
Divorce is better than murdering your spouse.
Gay adoption is better than adoption by abusive heterosexuals.
I am sure that you can think up many more.
I am also prepared for a jury vote, or election vote, for life imprisonment, in cases where that is best for the criminal. Unlike the pope, I do not believe that life imprisonment should be abolished, in our legal system. How about you, jon? Where do you cast your vote– in real life, not in “book-reading?”
“Reply” contradicts herself. On the one hand she says that “how we lead our life is guided by Faith” yet in the other hand she will refuse to be guided by the Catholic Church’s Magisterium on the issue of the death penalty when it comes to the ballot box. Based solely on her own words there, I humbly submit that “Reply’s” “faith” it seems is guided solely by her own “magisterium,” her own beliefs, her own biases, her own prejudices. She would not be guided by the Church’s Magisterium. This is not genuine Catholicism. This is the religion of the “Self.” And “Reply” is her own “god.” Beware people. Beware.
jon, your Faith, in real-life, should tell you, that there is a huge responsibility to protect people in society from all violent, evil criminals. That is a responsibility of our Faith. Make sure your kids are safe at school, make sure your wife is safe at home or at work, make sure your grandmas and grandpas are safe in their homes, or Nursing facility, don’t take any chances, don’t play games with human life. Your loved ones depend on you. Tomorrow in church, make sure your family is safe. There have been many violent attacks on churches and church-goers, worldwide. Don’t take risks, don’t be a crazy, unrealistic, “bleeding-heart,” “criminal-loving,” weak, spineless, Democrat liberal-leftist who can’t add 2+2 and get 4. No common sense.
“As I wrote in 2016 when I joined fellow California bishops in unanimously supporting voter initiatives to abolish the death penalty, the answer to a violent crime ‘is certainly not by inflicting more violence’. It is well past time that the death penalty be stricken from the books.” (Archbishop Salvatore Cordileone, Statement of September 1, 2022). Listen to the living Magisterium. Respect life.
Reply to: Have you never heard of martyrs?
Physical safety is really not a part of Christianity.
If you are a Christian who has the job of keeping people safe and laying down your life for others, that is what Jesus said to do.
Killing people you are afraid of is not.
You should know that all Christians have a grave responsibility to fight to protect the innocent from all harm. You must always have the courage to fight to protect your country, your community, and your family from all Evil. And fight to protect helpless unborn children. Never be a spineless, selfish coward. On Monday morning, the Nashville, TN cops risked their lives– and fought to protect the schoolchildren at the Christian school. They killed the evil shooter. The brave cops were lucky that the evil shooter did not succeed in killing one of them, when she fired at them.
There have been thousands of heroic martyrs all through history, who have willingly laid down their lives to protect others, in many different situations of great peril. A Polish Catholic family, the Ulma family, that hid a Jewish family in their home in WWII, to try to save their lives, was brutally killed in 1944 by Hitler’s soldiers– including an unborn child, as the Catholic mother was pregnant. The entire Ulma family was recently declared to be on the path to be canonized as Saints, at the Vatican. Pope St. John Paul II, when young, risked his life also, to try to save the Jews, in Poland, during WWII. There were many other instances in which the Pope, when young, also took great risks, with heroic action, during WWII and during the Communist years, risking his life to help his people.
“March 24, 2023 at 4:55 pm
‘Disagree’ is wrong. Executing a murderer while there are other ways to protect society short of killing him/her does not deter violent crimes perpetrated by other criminals, plus it violates the dignity of that criminal that’s been executed. It is therefore totally inadmissible.
And ‘Reply’ should be reminded again that I do not entertain hypothetical questions.
Listen to the living Magisterium. Respect life!”
April 16, 2023 at 12:25 pm – Reply
‘A future pope may have different ideas, than the current one.’ This needs to be fine-tuned. If the people devoted to the ‘vetus ordo’ insists on using the Missal of Pope John XXIII to divide themselves from the rest of the Church and to eschew Vatican II, then a future pope will not ‘have different ideas than’ Pope Francis. That future pope will continue to implement ‘Traditionis custodes’ if he sees division in the Church from those who love the Missal of Pope John XXIII.”
The good thief and the bad thief did the same exact crime. One mocked the Lord and one threw himself on the Lord’s Mercy.
I am glad the these bishops visited the imprisoned, just as Jesus said to.
If Al Qaeda leaders went to the Vatican, and brutally massacred the poor, fragile Pope in his wheelchair, his aides, many Catholic clerics, and innocent laymen in the crowds, and if I were serving on an Italian Jury to convict these Satanic criminals– who confessed to their jihadist crimes for “Allah”– and if either capital punishment or execution was being discussed as punishment– I would agree to either one. Too bad. These sinful, violent criminals do not belong in our society for “bleeding-heart” liberal-leftists to “feel sorry for” and “protect their human rights.” They forfeit those “human rights” — same thing, when a Just God sends them to Hell. No “pity parties.” Man has Free Will– and must accept the consequences of his actions. In some cases. God’s Mercy does intervene– but not all. Society– innocent, vulnerable people and their children, and sick, elderly, and disabled family members– all must be protected. No “pity parties” for extremely dangerous, evil, violent criminals.
“A sign of hope is the increasing recognition that the dignity of human life must never be taken away, even in the case of someone who has done great evil. Modern society has the means of protecting itself, without definitively denying criminals the chance to reform. I renew the appeal I made most recently at Christmas for a consensus to end the death penalty, which is both cruel and unnecessary.” (Pope John Paul II; Homily at the Papal Mass in the Trans World Dome, St. Louis, Missouri, January 27, 1999). Listen to the living Magisterium. Respect life.
Regardless– we still have a Christian Duty to protect society.
Please give a source for that.
Didn’t you learn this as a child, in Catholic grade school, from the priests and nuns? Try this, then:
“Catechism of the Catholic Church,” Part 3, Section 2, Chapter 2, Article 5. See particularly, #2265 and #2266.
These paragraphs from the Catechism (2265 and 2267) do not support the present use of the death penalty. These paragraphs speak of defense and of keeping the common good. The death penalty is an inadmissible way of “defense”; it does not keep the common good. Listen to the living Magisterium. Respect life.
This scenario already happened in1981. Pope John Paul II forgave Mehmet Ali Agca for trying to kill him, giving us all a saintly and holy example to follow. There can never be an execution in The Vatican because it abolished the death penalty years ago giving nations a good example to follow.
Actually, the case of Agca was very complex. He was mentally unstable, at times proclaiming himself to be “Jesus Christ” or a “messenger of God.” He was denied military service in his country, Turkey, for being mentally unfit for military service. He also, at his trial, stated that he had some mysterious accomplices to his crime. His original sentence was for life, for shooting the pope. Later, in prison, he greatly improved is behavior, so his sentence was shortened for that. Finally, he received a pardon from the Italian president, and was extradited to Turkey, where he had more years of incarceration
for crimes committed in Turkey. He completed 10 years in prison, in Turkey. He now lives on royalties from a book he wrote. All I am saying, is that we have the adult Christian Duty to keep society safe.
Of course, the Pope pardoned Agca. That was what he was supposed to do. We must always forgive those who do us wrong. But those who do us wrong, also must say they are sorry– and repent of their sins. I do not know if Agca ever expressed sorrow for his sins and crimes, especially, his crime of trying to assassinate the Pope.
In the case of the horrifying Uvalde, Texas, school massacre, officers were all ready to storm the shooter. One officer had a daughter inside the school. Another officer had a call from his wife, a teacher, inside the school, telling him she was bleeding to death from the shooter. But these men did not get clear orders to storm the shooter. They just stood there, waiting…. This should never have happened, in America! Never! Storm the shooter, immediately! Save Iives! And if the shooter doesn’t commit suicide, and has a court trial– punish him! And do it right! That is the Christian Duty of the whole town! Liberal fools don’t understand that.Your Christian Duty is to protect your community! The Catholic churches of Uvalde, Texas, lost many beautiful children and fine adults, that horrific day. Many who died were Catholics, active in their church. In America– this should never have happened. Never.
Watch out if you naively think the Catholic Church is going to protect your precious kids from the next gay predator priest in the news! Not reliable–ever.