The following comes from a March 18 posting on First Things.
San Francisco Archbishop Salvatore Cordileone is in the midst of a bare-knuckle battle over whether Catholic schools can require Catholic teachers to be . . . well . . . Catholic. Recently, anonymous parties hired Sam Singer—a high-billing Better-Call-Saul-style PR man renowned for his apocryphal urinations and his passionate defense of Chevron’s ability to pollute with impunity—to attack the archdiocese. It will be interesting to see if he one day takes credit for the most recent salvo in the war—charges that Cordileone doesn’t care for the homeless.
Opponents have seized on reports that spigots installed at the doors to the San Francisco cathedral that come on at regular intervals and douse anyone trying to sleep there in order to discredit Cordileone’s stand. In doing so, they are ignoring Cordileone’s own personal history of care for
the homeless and distorting his record as head of a church that does much to house and feed them. Nothing can be achieved by pitting one element of the Christian witness against another—except, of course, the destruction of the faith.
As for the water system, Cordileone—who may have had little or no role in its installation—should move now to remove it. In doing so, he will be acting in accord with his own admirable personal witness as archbishop. Multiple reports describe Cordileone visiting homeless shelters to meet with and feed the homeless. In September 2013, he visited a gay parish in the Castro District to feed the homeless: “The Archbishop served a table full of people and everyone was delighted that he took time out of his busy schedule to be with them,” its pastor said. “He promised he would be back.”
Critics who seek to pin blame for this watering system on the archbishop must also be willing to give him credit for the many things done under the banner of the archdiocese to house and help the homeless. He is just as responsible, just as accountable, just as worthy of blame or credit for the one as is he is for the other. Both are done under Cordileone’s authority and so, even if without his immediate involvement and knowledge, both are equally his responsibility. Before rushing to condemn, we should pause to consider—and to ask whether with his personal acts, Cordileone has already shown where his heart lies.
Update: The Archdiocese of San Francisco has issued the following statement:
The Archdiocese of San Francisco is, along with the Catholic St.Vincent de Paul Society, the largest supporter of services for the homeless in San Francisco. Every year, it helps many thousands of people through food, housing, shelter programs for people at risk includinghomeless mothers and families, and in countless other ways.
St. Mary’s Cathedral is a huge part of that program, and does more than any other Catholic church. The Cathedral itself serves hundreds of homeless people giving them food and shelter, as an integral part of the San Francisco Interfaith Council’s efforts in that regard, for example, opening its doors for shelter and food for five weeks over the holidays.
This sprinkler system in alcoves near our back doorways was installed approximately two years ago, after learning from city resources that this kind of system was being commonly used in the Financial District, asa safety, security and cleanliness measure to avoid the situation where needles, feces and other dangerous items were regularly being left in these hidden doorways. The problem was particularly dangerous because students and elderly people regularly pass these locations on their way toschool and mass every day.
When the system was installed, after other ideas were tried and failed, the people who were regularly sleeping in those doorways were informed in advance that the sprinklers were being installed. The idea was not to remove those persons, but to encourage them to relocate to other areas of the Cathedral, which are protected and safer. The purpose was to make the Cathedral grounds as well as the homeless people who happen to be on those grounds safer.
We are sorry that our intentions have been misunderstood and recognize that the method used was ill-conceived. It actually has had the opposite effect from what it was intended to do, and for this we are very sorry. We have also now learned that the system in the first place required a permit and may violate San Francisco water-use laws, and the work to remove this system has already started, and will be completed by the end of the day.
All the “concerned”, sophisticated media in SF and all they can “get” on the poor Archbishop is a sprinkler system? Will they go after other private properties in the City with the same features?
When this is the best those who hate you can do, you’re winning.
If you set yourself up as morally superior to everyone else around you, don’t you have an obligation to actually behave in a morally superior way? The excuse “oh we did this because other people the city were doing this” is a ridiculous…and further undermines his claim to moral superiority. The apology “because you all misinterpreted our intentions” is a non-apology apology. It’s like running over somone with a car and then saying “oh I’m sorry your were offended by my driving”.
YFC, morals include watching out for the safety of children, and the elderly.
You will find nothing in the CCC that requires Catholics to do otherwise.
Taking care of those in need is required of all individuals.
And since you (falsely) pretend to be Catholic, when was the last time you invited the homeless on your own property, or in your car to sleep, urinate and defecate, deposit their needles, etc ?
I’m asking this, because this is what you state you believe unless you are lying again.
When was the last time you asked your local or state government to do their jobs and take care of their homeless?
Providing roofs, beds, showers, food, clothing, toilets to all in need ?
What about at government buildings?
Get with it !
Next time you post I will ask you what you are doing to help the homeless yourself and with your local government.
PETE, I answered this in several other posts which you may have not yet seen, so I refer you to those. In addition I offer:
As a quackety quack liberal (hello Steve P!), I support and encourage government safety nets. Unlike those who use CCD to discourage such things, misusing the principle of subsidiarity. And unlike most other CCD posters, I think that government grants to the Church to take care of the homeless is a worthwhile church-state partnership. Most homeless programs run by the church are, after all, mostly funded by government and foundation grants, not from the pews.
So please, let us know: Do you favor government grants to the Church to take care of the poor? Should the Church say to government: “Satan be gone”, and go it alone to take care of the poor?
Who has not supported government safety nets for Americans in need? I never saw this.
Subsidiarity has to do with individual giving, not government giving.
Subsidiarity is what Jesus taught.
He never taught partnering with any government to help the poor.
Government Grants to Catholic or other charities merely creates an added bureaucracy in the mix. Whereby our tax dollars are eaten up by additional employee costs and benefits, and all other added costs of doing any business.
The added bureaucracy eats up more tax dollars which gives less of each tax dollar to those in need.
Further all Government Grants have strings attached. This is not necessarily a bad thing, just a fact.
Tracking of each Grant to insure government compliance is also an added cost whereby each dollar provides less to those in need.
Let’s spend our tax dollars wisely, and let governments do their own jobs.
This does not mean that individuals can not ‘volunteer’ based on their own area of expertise.
If you don’t think that the heads of the CCHD, and CRS, and Catholic Charities do not make big bucks, with excellent benefits including retirement, travel expenses, etc, etc, .you are naïve.
These are businesses sanctioned by Bishops – using the “Catholic” name.
And it is a waste of our tax dollars that could be going to the poor.
I do not favor government Grants. In many cases, the federal government gives the grants to the CCHD or CRS, then the CCHD and CRS give grants to others.
What a waste of tax dollars, and the poor gets the little that is left over after everyone else finances their own organizations.
One extra and unneeded layer is two much, but many times it is more layers deep than one.
As many have said, let the government do its own job.
The rest of us should give to the poor as best we can afford, the way Jesus said it should be done.
He did not tell us to pay our taxes so that those taxes could be used to give to other bureaucracy, and that bureaucracy can give to another bureaucracy – and the poor gets the shaft – leftovers.
In a way government Grants to other bureaucracies is stealing from the poor. Money and assets that should be spent on them alone.
Our Lord and Redeemer Jesus Crist told us to help the poor. He didn’t tell us to expect the government to do it. By the time taxpayers money gets to the poor, most of it has ended up in the pockets of well paid government employees.
If anybody has a good idea to keep the feces, needles, and vomit of the Cathedral’s property, let them know. This is no “social justice” issue, it’s a health and safety nightmare.
please, they spent two years drenching the homeless, and only after the media brought this to light did they admit it was not working? Really?
“YFC”, and if this was happening at your home, you would do what exactly?
I live in a major US city. This does happen near my home. I walked past a guy shooting up on my block last week. I asked a local sheriff who was a half a block away to please help the man.
Every day since, I have asked whether I did the right thing. If I had a uniform and protective gear, or a little less personal fear, maybe I would have had the courage to show this man more direct compassion.
But I am very glad I did not bring out my garden hose and douse him with water.
“YFC”, too bad you were so torn up about objecting to intolerable public behavior! The Cathedral is a sacred place where the Body and Blood of Christ is offered to His followers. No one should be allowed to desecrate such places.
Everyone should call the Police.
So the government – who has full responsibility for them – can take care of them.
YFC, what makes you think that little children and the elderly have no fear of them?
You are no doubt bigger and stronger than these weakest among us.
Krisitin, according to my religion, merely eking out a living is hardly a desecration. Pummeling them with water, is.
YFC, what if it was happening on your PRIVATE PROPERTY, or your Car?
You never answered this question.
Faith based properties are all PRIVATE PROPERTIES.
No doorways should ever be blocked due to fire exits.
The homeless are free to squat on public properties – public parks, public buildings, etc.
and fact if this was the case, it would force the local and state governments to do their jobs – in providing shelters, mental facilities, and jails – as required.
YFC, maybe they are grateful for the shower.
I answered all these questions in other posts. Bottom line is that I would not install a shower system 30 feet overhead and spray them with water every half hour. If you cannot see the inhumanity in that then perhaps you really ought to go and undergo the treatment yourself. Any takers?
Perhaps YFC could volunteer to clean the feces, vomit, condoms, syringes and urine up.
Perhaps I should!
But let’s be clear: They were dousing these folks more than once an hour. If the intent was to clear away the site of feces, why not do it once, say, at sunrise, with a really good blast, after the homeless had gone away for the day. Instead, they were torturing these folks for 75 seconds every half hour or so, throughout the night Were they clearing away the feces, or making the homeless so miserable that they would leave?
Cleaning the area of feces was not the intent. There’s no drainage to anywhere. If anything, feces are simply spread onto the plaza.
Because alcoholics and drug addicts, and the mentally ill are there 24 -7, not merely at night.
So what? The Cathedral staff is obviously not telling the truth when it tells you that this system was installed to wash away feces and needles. And even if that were the intent, wouldn’t somebody have gone to see whether the system worked, sometime in the 2 years it was used? In the increasing drought, wouldn’t somebody have thought, geee, maybe there is a more responsible way to clean up the debris. And most importantly, why did the cathedral staff not once in 2 years have a crisis of conscience over what they were subjecting these human beings to?
the report quotes the diocese spokesman:
We are sorry that our intentions have been misunderstood and recognize that the method used was ill-conceived
Excuse me, but your intentions were to use water boarding techniques to remove homesles people from the Cathedral. Where have your intentions been misunderstood here? And what, exactly, are you sorry for? That your intentions were actually understood accurately, or that your methods were ill conceived?
Further, you pummeled these homeless for TWO YEARS. Was it only after the press called you on it that you recognized that your efforts were “ill conceived”??
Seriously, this Archbishop has got answers upon answers to account for.
No he doesn’t YFC… water boarding really YFC…
Perhaps “YFC” is part of the public relations firm hired to trash Archbishop Cordileone for what he has done and what he has failed to do.
Kristin, YFC will trash anyone with authority who does not support sodomy, and sodomy marriage.
You obviously have no experience and or understanding of what constitutes water boarding, YFC. Good grief.
And you do, Ann Malley? Good grief indeed!
… I’m a military wife, Anonymous, take that as you may. But tossing around a charge of water-boarding is a serious slur and/or a complete misuse or misconception of what the process entails. Especially from one who classifies others as hysterical. Perhaps that is why YFC likens others expressing themselves in terms of his own hogwash methodology.
So, yes, good grief indeed. Please, in future, attempt to read and comprehend posts and terms. I understand that isn’t your style, but it would still be appreciated.
Oh, pardon, YFC. I mistook you for an Anonymous.
YFC – WATER BOARDING is specifically a type of water torture, in which water is poured over a cloth covering the face and breathing passages of an immobilized captive,
causing the individual to experience the sensation of drowning. Waterboarding can cause extreme pain, dry drowning, damage to lungs, brain damage from oxygen deprivation, other physical injuries including broken bones due to struggling against restraints,
lasting psychological damage, and death. ”
The Abp and his staff are not guilty of water-boarding, or holding anyone captive.
YFC, you have committed another Mortal Sin.
This MORTAL SIN is:
CCC: ” 2477 Respect for the reputation of persons forbids every attitude and word likely to cause them unjust injury.
He becomes guilty: – of calumny who, by remarks contrary to the truth, harms the reputation of others and gives occasion for false judgments concerning them.”
As part of your penance for PUBLIC CALUMNY against the Abp you must publically apologize in all media forms where you lied.
Metaphors and similes belong to a class of literary devices known as figurative language, or figures of speech. Parables are also examples of figurative language, though less used today than in the past. You may recall that Jesus used figurative language most of the time, especially in the Gospel of Matthew. Did the fact that Jesus regularly use figurative language make him a liar? No, figures of speech are often used to help people understand deeper concepts that are otherwise hard to communicate succinctly. I could have used “Chinese water torture”, which would have actually been more literally accurate than “water boarding”, but the actual similarities to Chinese water torture might have made the reader think I was no longer using a metaphor.
And from the Catechism: “2478 To avoid rash judgment, everyone should be careful to interpret insofar as possible his neighbor’s thoughts, words, and deeds in a favorable way:
Every good Christian ought to be more ready to give a favorable interpretation to another’s statement than to condemn it. But if he cannot do so, let him ask how the other understands it. And if the latter understands it badly, let the former correct him with love. If that does not suffice, let the Christian try all suitable ways to bring the other to a correct interpretation so that he may be saved.”
Jose i agree.
Your Fellow Catholic, you specifically used the LYING terminology “WATER BOARDING”.
There is no calumny here.
YOU are a Liar.
Please see my post at 3/21 at 6:36 AM. Using a metaphor is not lying.
YFC, have you taken up this issue with the other organizations in the area who do exactly the same thing? No, I thought not. The word “hypocrite” springs to mind! You don’t care for the poor, you only care about punishing Archbishop Cordileone because you don’t care for his message.
Nicholas BRAVO! EXACTLY what I thought! That is how this stupid life is….moral relativism is alive and well, bad behaviors are defended often and sure feels great to read or hear about people behaving decent and using good common sense! Thank you for telling it how I felt it but just couldn’t convey as well as you just did…..
Nicholas, I am very happy to shut down any other “organization” doing this same thing. I know of no other. Do you?
Besides which, don’t you think the Church should be held to a higher standard than other “organizations”?
Oh I know of plenty of “organizations” in the financial district who are doing exactly the same thing YFC for exactly the same reasons: safety, security and cleanliness.
In fact, YFC, the San Francisco Police Dept. no less, recommended the system to the Cathedral’s previous rector. You should start a hate campaign against the Police Dept. after all, it was their idea.
Regarding your point about “higher standards” – the Catholic Church does more to help the homeless than ANY other “organization”. That’s a pretty high standard.
One last thought, you claim to be part of the Catholic Church, so you are held to that same “higher standard”. Let’s see you accommodate the homeless around your property – and no excuses please.
Evil people like Sam Singer will attack the good in any way that they can.
They desire to be and are the devil’s tool.
“… safety, security and cleanliness measure to avoid the situation where needles, feces and other dangerous items were regularly being left in these hidden doorways.
The problem was particularly dangerous because students and elderly people regularly pass these locations on their way to school and mass every day. ”
There is nothing in Church teaching that states Catholics must put up with – needles, feces and other dangerous items –
nor that we must expose our children and elderly to them.
– – – – – – – – – – –
QUESTIONS that need to be posed in the public media:
1) Why isn’t the homosexual promoting government of the CITY of SFO doing their job to take care of their homeless?
2) Why isn’t the STATE of CA doing it’s job to take care of their homeless ?
You ask two good questions. One would think such firm believers in big government would have gotten a government solution for the problem by now, instead of resorting to this ham-fisted attempt to malign the Church. They are really scratching the bottom for a stick to beat the archbishop with, and starting to look a bit flaky in the process.
Do all City and State government buildings in SFO, have outdoor (and/or indoor) facilities to take care of their homeless?
If not, why not?
The archbishop sets himself as the morally superior one. He flaunts the infallibility of the Church in matters of faith AND MORALS, and then allows this kind of crap to go on for years right under his nose. So sure, change the subject to what the City or state can do, but they don’t go around proclaiming their infallibility in morals, imposing their morals on the private lives of employees, and when a city official is caught violating the laws, they lose their job. Is the Archbishop and the Rector of the Cathedral going to lose their job for these illegal and immoral acts?
“The archbishop sets himself as the morally superior one.”
Really, YFC? When has he ever done that?
“He flaunts the infallibility of the Church in matters of faith AND MORALS…”
Flaunts the infallibility of the Church? Good grief, what does that even mean?
What you are doing is called calumny, YFC:
n. pl. cal·um·nies
1. A false statement maliciously made to injure another’s reputation.
2. The utterance of maliciously false statements; slander.
Perhaps you have not been following the Archbishop’s attempts to put some – but not all – of the moral teachings of the Church into the teacher handbook? And he didn’t just put some – but not all – of the moral teachings into the handbook, he topped it off with a reminder to all that the Church teaches its moral teachings infallibly, and that those who disobey them go to hell.
So the question pertains: Why does this Archbishop treat the homeless so callously at his own Cathedral? How can he continue to be a teacher of morals when he violates them so flagrantly?
As to my supposed calumny: I would have had to issued a FALSE statement in order to have committed calumny. There is no false statement in my post.
I am very aware that the Abp is trying to get all employees of Catholic Schools (who set the example for children) to
live MORALLY according to Sacred Scripture and the CCC.
YFC, you are a stupid person if you think that the Abp is making up Sacred Scripture, and the CCC.
He does not author them; he teaches and enforces them.
That is the Abp’s job.
YFC you are liar to the bone…..
Debra, thanks for the insult, but I am not a stupid person. The diocese employs non catholics and even on Christians. Asking them — and all the faculty — to abide by a very small section of catholic teaching ignores the other moral teachings of the church
YFC, any employees who do not choose to live up to the Morality of the Catholic Church should look for employment elsewhere. –
End of SUBJECT.
We will gladly wish them goodbye.
YFC – – – do not beg the exact questions –
that need to be posed in the public media:
1) Why isn’t the homosexual promoting government of the CITY of SFO doing their job to take care of their homeless?
2) Why isn’t the STATE of CA doing it’s job to take care of their homeless ?
– – – – – –
YFC when you get the log out of your own sodomite eye,
then you can judge others.
What have you been doing on a regular basis to help the homeless ? – What have you been doing to make certain that your City and State help the homeless ?
Edward asks why doesnt the city and state do it’s job of taking care of the homeless. That is actually a great question, and I push my legislators to do more. But the reality is that many folks on CCD (I assume you are not one of them, based on your question) HATE the fact that government does anything at all for the poor and the homeless. There are regular diatribes in these very comm-boxes about commutative justice, against Obamacare and the like. Any attempt by liberal ducky-duck folks to support and expand care for the poor is met regularly on this website and others with utter disdain, as though Christ himself had never uttered a single word in favor of the poor. So, CCD followers, make up your mind: Do you want government to extend Christian charity to the poor, or are you going to extend that charity yourself? As it is now, government heavily subsidizes Church expenditures to care for the poor. It’s a pretty good compromise. What would you suggest that we do?
YFC – I have not read where other posters on this site do not want the government to do their own job in taking care of the homeless, and I read this blog site all the time.
You making things up again ?
Many have stated that they personally give and recommend giving to local St. Vincent de Paul Society, and the “Church in Need” which can be located through the internet.
Some have mentioned a few other good charities.
Of course we must give to the best of our own ability those who truly want and need our assistance.
The Church should NEVER take money from the Government to do the government’s job.
The Feds have over 1 million employees who can do what the government needs to do.
Grants are merely working for the government – according to the governments rules as expected.
YFc it has been liberals like you that have run nearly every major city in this country and the results have been nothing short of a permanent underclass. No YFC, i believe in self reliance something liberals find abhorrent.
Well, what can I say Leigh. Perhaps you don’t read the comm boxes here on CCD. You yourself have things quite backwards when you say that the Church should never take money from the government to do the government’s own job of taking care of the poor. You even scream the word NEVER. Excuse me, but the Church ASKS for that money. Excuse me, but it is the Church’s job to take care of the poor, at least as much as it is government’s. If the Church did it’s job on its own, it would neither need government to take care of the poor directly nor would it need government money.
Under Bush, “faith based initiatives” soared. Religious zealouts loved that they were getting government money to do Church work. Now you complain that you are getting government money to do Church work??? Get real!
YFC, the Catholic Church does not ask for government money.
Misguided and/or greedy USCCB committees (including the CCHD, Catholic Charities, and CRS ask for government money).
If you define these greedy people who want to build and keep their own bureaucracies – money and power – as “religious zealots” that is up to you.
You will not find anything in any OFFICIAL Church document that states any charity that calls itself “Catholic” should take money from the government or any other organization that violates our Faith in any way.
It is the government’s job to take care of the poor.
It is not the organization the “Church’s” job to take care of the poor, but all of us as individuals – as taught by Jesus.
Each must do the best we can with what God gave us. That is all God will expect.
Give to your local St. Vincent de Paul, and to “Church in Need”.
I am simply blown away at the lack of concern for the poor on display in the comments sections of some Catholic blogs like this one.
YFC, it is your beloved Democrat party that has created a permanent underclass in this country…You will condemn poverty and in same breath condemn those who have avoided it
You are somewhat right YFC – someone from the Abp’s office should have contacted the police to get them off private Church property – AND
to get the homeless the care they need on City and/or State property.
They are the responsibility of the Government – especially when health issues such as needles, defecating, etc are involved.
Let’s all start contacting the police and local governments to take care of their responsibilities.
YFC your angry not because of this story but because you feel threatened by this good Archbishop who stands up for the truth on marriage and morals. You are angry….you mess with this Archbishop you mess with me too! Shame on you! I hate hypocrisy!
No Abeca, I am angry because of the scandal that this Archbishop has brought upon his Church. Our Church.
YFC. There is no Scandal. Except the one you and your homosexual buddies are trying to create.
YFC, please provide an official Church link whereby Catholics must endanger our children and elderly and others – with needles, feces and other dangerous items.
Or even endanger them by actions of the mentally ill or drug addicts.
Use Sacred Scripture or the CCC as your source.
PROVE your lying statements.
YFC, if you were not such a hypocrite, you would make certain that the government does its own job in helping the homeless.
You do not care about the homeless at all, so quit pretending.
If you cared you and your (homosexual) buddies would immediately involve local and state government who have our tax dollars, publically owned buildings, and tax payer paid employees to get the job done quickly in helping those in need –
Helping them in a safe manner, and to a safe and appropriate location.
SAFETY for children, the elderly, women, including the safety for the homeless.
If you think a doorway is safe for the homeless you are mentally ill in more ways than one.
Are to trying to keep the children and elderly away from Mass?
Or are you merely against any Bishop who teaches according to the Catholic Faith regarding the mortal sinfulness of homosexual activity ?
YFC it is not your Church its Christ’s
YFC if you are worried about scandal then please admonish the scandal that is being promoted by the gay activist, the “gay” pride parade is also scandalous, “gay marriage” is also scandalous etc especially against children, taking away their innocence is wrong too! I’ve been charitable to you in the past, still am but since you ignore my plea for your salvation, for you to turn away from sin, then there is nothing more I can do for you. Even praying for you and others, and boy did I get spiritually attacked. I knew then that the evil one is angry with the efforts people make to dialogue with you, I wish your pride didn’t get in the way. You are in God’s hands as we continue to pray for you.
OK PETE, it is hard for me to comprehend how people who claim to be Catholics can be so poorly catechized or have undergone a conversion of heart when it comes to the Church’s constant teaching about poverty. The Catechism has an entire section on it (Part 3 Section VI).
A few relevant quotes: at 2448:”In its various forms —material deprivation, unjust oppression, physical and psychological illness and death—human misery is the obvious sign of the inherited condition of frailty and need for salvation…Hence those who are oppressed by poverty are the object of a preferential love on the part of the Church which, since her origin and in spite of the failings of many of her members, has not ceased to work for their relief, defense, and liberation through numerous works of charity which remain indispensable always and everywhere.” Italics in the original text of the catechism. And it doesn’t say “always and everywhere except on the steps of the cathedral”.
So the question is whether this sprinkling system was in keeping with the preferential love we are called to have for the poor, or was it indeed aimed at increasing human misery, and if so, the catechism says, we are the ones in need of salvation. The catechism does not invoke the government to alleviate the misery of the poor. It invokes the “compassion of Christ the Savior, who willingly took it upon himself and identified himself with the least of his brethren”.
I am Pastor (Catholic Priest) of a fairly large parish. Occasionally we have homeless people attempting to sleep on our Church property. In the morning school children come and find syringes and needles, feces, condoms and other things that the homeless leave. Occasionally a homeless man will try to talk to a child and even if it seems innocent we cannot allow adults to interact with children in private conversations which are unsupervised.
I understand that we must have deep concern for the poor. We must also protect children.
“..I understand that we must have deep concern for the poor. We must also protect children.
You’re absolutely right, Fr. Higgins on all counts. … especially the last about protecting children.
Agreed, Father Higgins. But I’m sure we are also agreed that the actions you take may never violate the dignity of the homeless people who leave these things behind, regardless of how revolting we personally find those needles, feces, condoms, etc., and no matter the protection we desire to afford our children. I’m sure we are also agreed that Catholic moral theology does not permit us the luxury of using immoral means to accomplish a desired end.
It is immoral to purposely expose our children, and our elderly to danger.
These are our first responsibility.
Not alcoholics and drug addicts.
Marianne, no one is purposely exposing any children or elderly to danger. The issue here is not whether they should have to be exposed to used needles and feces, it is whether the water was effective at removing them (it was not!), or whether that was ever really the intention of the water system in the first place. Spraying people with water every half hour does nothing about the needles. It was simply done to harass the homeless. If they really had concern for any of these people, the security guards could have gone out there first thing every morning, asked the homeless to leave and get them to help clean up after themselves. Did they do that? No, they just used an inhumane water system to douse the homeless with cold water from 30 feet overhead.
No one is sent to hell for being homeless but our activists trolls are choosing to be sent to hell for mocking God while leading others to hell.
Last Sunday a homeless person came into the church during Mass. You could not even tell if this person was a man or a woman. This person was not participating or interested in the Mass. This same individual was wearing very large mirrored sun glasses and sat sideways in the pew and then remained turned completely around staring directly at the people behind. You did not know if this person was going to all of the sudden lunge at the people that they were staring at and harm someone. This person was making very agitated moves while placing rolled up paper hanging out of their mouth. At another local parish a homeless man approached a little girl to talk and when the little girl told him that her mom told her that she should not talk to strangers, the man told this little girl that she did not have to listen to what her mother said. Many parents allow their young sons and daughters to leave Mass to use the restroom. These children go out alone.
The homeless are often washing inside the church bathroom and it is wiser for parents to accompany both their young sons as well as daughters to the restrooms. It is better to be safe. No one is casting out the homeless.
All persons who are not there specifically for the Mass, should be asked to leave.
Police should be called.
It is PRIVATE PROPERTY – not owned by the City or State.
And the City or State would have them arrested in a heartbeat.
Catherine, how do you know this person was even homeless? You assume from their un-average behavior that they were homeless, but do you really actually know that? And from this one example, you believe that other homeless people behave similarly, and are therefore, somehow, worthy of the cathedral’s water treatment program? Really?
Has it ever occurred to you that the person you encountered at mass was mentally ill, or on drugs, or addicted to drugs? And that their needs might be different than other people? Has it ever occurred to you that even those who wear funny glasses and stare at people in a strange way shouldn’t get doused with water from 30 feet overhead simply because they don’t fold their hands properly at Mass.
Really? Have these things never occurred to you? Really?
“Has it ever occurred to you that the person you encountered at Mass was mentally ill?” = Yes indeed and it has also occurred to me that the homosexual activists who post on this website suffer from the intrinsically disordered mental illness known as homosexuality. This objective disorder compels those who hate the truth to find reasons to undermine and attack a faithful Archbishop. Had an unfaithful bishop who showed great support for your particular agenda decided to turn the showers on to protect the cleanliness and the health of people, then you’d be singing quite a different tune. Your post would then read, Hero of San Francisco! “Compassionate and merciful bishop offers the gift of kindness and free showers to the homeless.”
Catherine once again shows her own obsession with homosexuality rather than answer the question.
Anonymous, the police should be called when someone is on privately owned property – behaving in a very strange manner.
The Police are equipped to sort out the person’s problems or bad behavior
and take them to the proper government authority as needed –
whether that be a government owned mental institution,
government owned housing for the homeless, or jail.
Do not expect Catholics or other civilians to be trained in the best way to deal with serious behavior problems
Your wrong headed expectation happens when the Church ever works for the Government (using government grants), and I am sorry that they ever started this in the USA.
LOUDLY I would like to proclaim – “the CATHOLIC CHURCH is NOT an arm or division of the Federal or State Government”.
It is not helpful to the addict or mentally ill person to ignore their plight.
Call the police for accurate placement where they can get the assistance they need.
The safety of the children come first.
Contact your local government to take the poor to localities that the government has provided for them.
Anonymous it doesn’t matter, can you just trust that Catherine may discern whether that person is homeless or not? She was there not you. She made valid points and so have you but she was only sharing what she saw as a concern especially on suspicious behavior. In some areas there are more homeless and churches face those issues and have more experience on the subject. One needs to trust what people say about the subject when they see real concerns, we can not be judging them as being harsh on the homeless, but understand the reality and deal with each individual or individuals accordingly.
One would hope and pray, to not let their children walk alone to the bathroom. Its just an unfortunate thing but as parents we must protect our kids. Help the poor, because not all homeless are bad people, they are human beings and we need to care for their dignity of their person but we must also be realistic on that not all are well and have some behaviors that can be harmful to not only children but also to others.
Driving the homeless population to neighboring churches across the street is not the answer. But I guess Fr. is saying the children in those churches don’t matter as much as Catholic children.
Dave N you just love to cause trouble. Why say stupid stuff like that. What is your real agenda here?
Requires loyalty oaths from teachers (some may be *gasp* gay or take birth control!) but casts out the homeless from the church’s steps. Tsk, tsk, tsk… What would Pope Francis say?
No gets rid of the danger from Church steps.
Children and the elderly need protection.
It doesn’t “get rid” of the danger; it just sends them to neighboring churches.
DaveN. drive the homeless to Police Stations and Government buildings so that their needs can be met – by trained professionals with our tax dollars.
Try to solve the problems when possible, not kick the can down the street.
Panthermom asks ..”What would Pope Francis say?” Consistency would have Pope Francis saying, “Who am I OR…Who are YOU to judge faithful Archbishop Cordileone! “
Pope Francis said yesterday – you can judge the morality of a Country by the way it takes care of its children.
Funny. I always thought the homeless were child of God. Oh, sorry, I must have misread the Gospels.
That is why you call the police, so that they will not harm themselves or others, and their needs will be met in government homeless shelters, government mental facilities, or jail – whatever meets the needs of the individual.
Letting people shoot up, and lie in their own waste, is not helping them. I am surprised that anyone would suggest letting them continue to harm themselves, or harm others via creating health hazards and blocking entrances/exits.
Yes MEREDITH is correct! Pope Francis would not approve with the bashing that the “gay” activists want to perform on this faithful Archbishop! Time to stand by him and not let the “gay” and the media slander this holy Archbishop! We must not fall for their tricks to slander his good name.
It happens often, good people who stand for something good, the secular want to bring them down, from within and out of the church, there is evil, undermining those with good morals!
Surely everyone gets that flooding homeless people every half hour is a scandal as grave as any scandal that has come around. Defending a “faithful bishop” is fine when he deserves to be defended. But in this instance, at least, integrity requires that people of the Archdiocese speak out and demand real answers directly from the Archbishop, not some spokesbishop who apologizes for being misunderstood.
Saving children and elderly from needles, defecation, and other serious health hazards – needs no explanation YFC.
What is wrong with you ?
The City and State need to give an explanation as to why they are not doing their jobs. Have you contacted them recently to find out why they have not.
After all, they have all our tax dollars at their disposal.
The water did not remove a single needle. There was no place for the water to go. No drain pipe, nothing. The video from KCBS clearly shows that the water simply flowed down the stairs. So if that water moved anything at all, it just moved it a step or two down the stairs. Thanks for your concern for me, Cindy, I assure you there is nothing wrong with me. I’m simply telling you facts and reacting with the same compassion I would have hoped the Archbishop would have demonstrated over the last two years.
your faithful catholic, the water did get people off the steps. So it DID get rid of needles, feces, alcohol bottles, etc..
The water was turned on prior to their squatting, so most of this did not squat there any longer.
Why have you refused to endorse calling the Police, so that people can get the help they need by state employed professionals who know best how to help them ?
Your Fellow Catholic, you call endangering our children and our elderly, and women – compassion ?????
You call making certain that fire hazards are not created by blocking doors – compassion ?????
You call not get the homeless the professional help they need by calling the Police – compassion ?????
The sprinkler system merely kept people from squatting on private property in the first place.
Please provide your address so we can send them to your house.
Your mortal sins have screwed you up.
So this is what support of sodomy does to people !
It is not just the Church with this problem – though the National lamesteam media have taken their cue from the Gaystapo and run the story as far & wide as they can – as befits a high priced propaganda attack on the Church & Arch-Bishop.
However – although the stories are usually hushed up, there have been some notable ‘leaks’ in the bowl that is Sodom by the Sea…
Such as – Shutting Down Bart escalators, as the entire system including machinery became clogged with fecal & needle & other matter.
Golden Gate Park has plenty of Children’s Play Spaces that are full of needles and filth, and one dare not use the toilets, not just due to sanitation but also the likelihood of encountering your fellow friskiness engaging in homo-anal coprophile ‘lifestyle behaviors’ in the ‘Public’ Toilets – which for some reason seem to hold great attraction to that ‘happy’ gang.
The area around City Hall – particularly the Tenderloin, is a place where you can find junkies cooking and shooting at all hours of the day in sight of the dome of government – at least what passes as such in the place.
But using the Church Steps & Entrances as Toilets – Simply Grand say the Gaystapo.
This is not the Church problem at all.
There is nothing in the Bible or CCC to take care of those – who are able to work.
(The Bible says if they do not work, they should not eat. (laziness)
It is the responsibility of all individuals to help those unable to help themselves, not a Parish or Diocese.
1) Federal and State Governments are required to insure that their are jobs for ALL able bodied citizens.
2) State and Local Governments are required to take care of the indigents
who through physical or mental disabilities are not capable of taking care of themselves.
3) Per the homosexuals who want the homeless on someone else’s private property – tell their City and State government to open their taxpayer supported government owned buildings for all the needs of the homeless.
You do understand, don’t you, that the majority of money that the Church uses to care for the homeless comes from federal, state, and local grants? That any personal donations are subsidized by state and federal governments via tax deductibility for the person making the donation? You do understand, don’t you, that the showers have no OTHER purpose than to shower the homeless with water and make their lives more miserable?
This is what many have been saying:
Let the government do its required job so people in need will get assistance,;
Let Catholics donate as best as they can to charities that they deem appropriate.
You YFC have written many times on the separation of Church and State. I agree with you on that point.
No more GRANTS for the Catholic Church or their organizations.
Make the government do its own job.
So the Bible has no notion of mental illness that prevents people from getting a job? Or the idea that even having a job does not guarantee the ability to afford the going rate to live in SF ($3,000/month for a studio), or that once incarcerated, it is almost impossible to get a job? Or that being black increases by many fold the chances that you will get caught and then incarcerated?
Cynthia, with all due respect, I have to ask: are all those things subsumed under “laziness”? I’ve SEEN laziness, and those things don’t look like laziness to me. And I also have to say that I haven’t found any scripture that says that Christians are supposed to shower the lazy with hundreds of gallons of water every half hour. Where is that in Scripture or the CCD?
Cynthia ~ I’ve hired two homeless guys for my small business over the years. Both of them had mental problems but were ..I suppose the word is “high functioning” Most of the homeless people I see wouldn’t work out like these guys did because they are very, very mentally ill or highly substance addicted. This is a very complicated problem. All of us in society, the Church, government, businesses and even homosexuals like me should follow what Our Lord Jesus Christ said about “the least of my people.”
C&H – I hope we will agree that the City & State Governments are the best equipped with both – – – – – Money and with Professionals – – – – – to solve the problems.
Solving the problems on short and long term basis, is better than just kicking the can around and exacerbating them. This helps no one, and is unhealthy for all involved.
YFC, your posts are really very tiresome. Why don’t you find some other place to wax your venom?
Larry, you are free to skip over my posts if they tire you out. I won’t be offended, I assure you!
YFC – Answer the questions asked of you by more than one.
We are all waiting to hear –
” YFC – – – do not beg the exact questions –
that need to be posed in the public media:
1) Why isn’t the homosexual promoting government of the CITY of SFO doing their job to take care of their homeless?
2) Why isn’t the STATE of CA doing it’s job to take care of their homeless ?
– – –
YFC when you get the log out of your own sodomite eye,
then you can judge others.
3) What have YOU been doing on a regular basis to help the homeless ? –
4) What have YOU been doing to make certain that your City and State help the homeless ?
5) have you opened YOUR home (private property) and car to them and their needs – so they can use drugs (needles) and alcohol, defecate, etc on your property or in your car ? “
Your Fellow Catholic (YFC) answer Elizabeth’s questions.
There are only 5 questions.
I like to read opposing positions. Who wants to hear the same thing over and over again. Personally I skip over the comments that go on for two or three entrees. Come on people keep it pithy.
Dumb press release.
Someone writing for the Arch is giving the upper hand to the enemies of the Church [“we are sorry” “ill-conceived” “required a permit” “may violate San Francisco law” “will be completed by the end of the day”].
Make the City of San Francisco do its own job – in taking care of their own homeless.
They have government buildings that they can open up.
Perhaps there needs to be a recall of the City elected officials.
“Make the City of San Francisco do its own job” Andy
The City of ‘tolerance’ does not allow campers on city hall steps or the plaza, or places where the rich and powerful go…
– But even they have trouble keeping the ‘Porta Potties’ in the area from use by prostitutes & needle users as headquarters / place of business – even in broad daylight.
These people aren’t just ‘Homeless’ – they are often badly off the deep end of IV Drug Use and related ‘support activities’ (to get money, entry to the party…) that are part of the ‘thriving frisco scene’ events like the ‘Folsom Street fair’ .
A desperate underclass serves a definite niche ‘purpose’ in places as severely debauched and depraved as Sodom by the Sea, and has since the old Barbary Coast days of Shanghai’d Sailors shipping out with syphilis and hazy saloon memories as they awoke on outward bound windjammers.
SF-DH is another Frisco saying for the notion that if one lives perched like a rich Gucci Scarecrow atop Snob Hill, then having the servants turn on the hose serves to wash all the Icky Stuff downhill, where gravity helps assure the smell doesn’t interfere with the next CHINO Nancy Pelosi Fundraiser.
Paying Gaystapo propagandists to trash the Church for a City Problem, points the camera away from the degradation of this ‘tourists mecca’ of SF –
While Alinsky mau mauing the Church for spending money on the poor instead of like them on publicity.
In my experience with Churches and pastors, they do not like the CHRONICALLY homeless on the property or interacting with parishioners who come there. They try to get them into services that are equipped to deal with them and the problems that keep them homeless such as mental illness, drug addiction, alcoholism and other disorders.
They are very welcoming to those who have suffered a reversal of fortune and are recently made homeless, especially families or when a situation in the community exists where there are not enough homes for low-income people.
And, in your experience, is water boarding them an effective means of accomplishing those goals?
water boarding is torture. How is this relevant?
Interesting that the Archbishop’s photo op is at the St. Anthony Foundation/St. Anthony’s Dining Room–an organization that has long battled the Church and still to this day provides same-sex partner/spouse health benefits.
In the winter, someone could get hypothermia and die :-(
yes, C&H we must let the homeless continue to spread the filth outside the Cathedral at all costs in the name of tolerance and understanding
Canisius Gee .. maybe there is a better way. I mean every winter having having wet, freezing people clog the ER’s or die on the streets really isn’t the best way to deal with the problem.
SO more liberal programs eh C&H more false compassion in the name of understanding. Stupid liberal policies have created a permanent underclass in this country, they have been stripped of the self respect and dignity all in the name of a government check…The better way is self reliance…stop feeding the problem
C&H and Fellow Catholics of a Sort must be aware if they have volunteered and worked with homeless outreach organizations (I have and do) here in SF and the Bay Area that there are actually more than enough beds for the homeless, and in fact there is a fierce competition to get homeless individuals to stay the night, because that is how the non-profits get paid.
However, nearly all of the people who are on the street at night choose to do so because usually (1) they wont abide by the facility rules (no visitors, no sex); (2) no drugs or alcohol (they want to smoke or drink at will during the night); and (3) they don’t want to check in their “stuff”, overnight to the facility, a requirement off all the facilities. And oh: weapons will be confiscated. Almost all these people I have found to have weapons with them: seriously wicked knives, cudgels, shivs, etc. Living on the streets means your worst enemy is likely another street person, and they will tell you that themselves. There are a large proportion of severely bi-polar and paranoid schizophrenic street individuals, also, making this all a dangerous mix to allow to encamp on your property. I have had to go through the system to get a restraining order when some get fixated on living on “their property” (i.e. your porch). It is not an innocuous situation you can reasonably tolerate without enormous risk.
As for “harsh” rules, you should have worked with the late Fr. Alfred Boedekker (I did for a time many years ago at one of his facilities): he was all rules and no-nonsense, making this charge against Cordileone a travesty. But this is all about a not-so-veiled attack on the archbishop for “crimes against humanity” when it is really of course in fact due to his perfectly well-founded position on Catholic moral issues. The same individuals on these pages who flagellate others for allegedly insulting or being disobedient to magisterial authority find it fully within their purview to do so when it suits their options. Sweet!
When the homeless create a fire hazard by blocking entrances and exits, or create other health hazards for themselves and others –
especially on privately owned property –
one should contact the Police for trespassing at the least.
The Police can take them to government supervised homeless shelters,
or government owned mental facilities, or jail as appropriate to each case –
where they will not be dangerous to others or to themselves.
Putting on a sprinkler system after someone has been taken by the Police merely keeps others from squatting there immediately after.
Purposely allowing people to create health hazards for others or for themselves is sinful, and makes those allowing this condition to fester – a remote participant in the sin of creating these hazards.
It sins against Charity.
Very useful information Steve.
Steve, when you say that sometimes the homeless choose not to live in shelters, you are correct. And you are also correct when sometimes their reasons are because they don’t want or can’t obey the rules. All those things are true.
It is also true, though you do not make mention of it, that sometimes shelters are places where the homeless are abused. They sometimes get robbed, sexually assaulted, harrassed because of their sexual orientation or gender identity. And so those people too, sometimes prefer to live on the streets rather than shelters.
However, none of what you say (or the circumstances that I also raise) justify making the plight of the unsheltered homeless worse. And that is exactly what these showers did. They mad the plight of unsheltered homeless unnecessarily worse.
YFC, that is why the City and/or State must have “supervised” shelters.
Those who commit crimes belong in jail.
1) Why are you against calling the Police – to help the homeless get the help they need in SUPERVISED government homeless shelters;
or mental institutions,
or jail – as determined by each case ?
2) Why do you want the homeless to block the doorways of private properties causing fire hazards?
3) Why do you want the homeless to harm the health of children and elderly with needles, feces, urine, drugs, alcohol, etc ?
4) Why do you not want the homeless to be helped by professional government workers so they will not continue to hurt themselves ?
YFC, all you do is complain and complain.
You have offered no SOLUTIONS to problems that make any sense for both:
a) the safety and health of the public,
b) as well as the safety and health of the homeless.
And don’t tell us that sleeping on cement in doorways is a healthy SOLUTION for all. That would be dumber than rocks.
Your support for sleeping on cement is barbaric.
( btw sleeping in doorways can be very dangerous in the middle of the night – rape, etc. etc. So do not complain about government SUPERVISED shelters – where the police can be called for criminals and there are plenty of witnesses.)
Joe and Anonymous, please consult this web page as my response to your questions: https://www.fallacyfiles.org/loadques.html.
If you think that making homeless people MORE miserable is what the Cathedral should be doing, then I have no hope that you will ever understand Christ’s preference for the poor.
If you are so in favor of the “water boarding” technique that the Cathedral used, and think it was such a great idea, perhaps you can explain why they wasted no time removing it and apologizing for it.
Your Fellow Catholic, you are the one who is supporting having the homeless sleep on cement.
Cathedral employees and most posters here want them to stop blocking entrances/exits and get assistance from the government.
Dottie, where have I ever “supporting having the homeless sleep on cement”? All I am saying is that it is cruel to douse those who DO sleep on cement to make them even more miserable by dumping cold water on them from 30 feet overhead every half hour.
I think people are missing the point here. Signs and regular intervals of cascading non-refreshment are just the thing that’s keeping Aqualung away, so no one is really getting wet now are they? Moreover, he’s no longer defacating, urinating, vomiting, fornicating, shooting up, etc., just outside the vestibule; nor leaving needles and prophylactics where little Thornapple and Momma Massgoer will find them.
Sure, there’ll be the odd one slipping through for whom reading is not fundamental. Well, here’s a novel idea: Scented Water. So for the surprised homeless traveller, i.e., the exception who proves the rule, why, he’ll at least come out smelling better–and we know how fussy San Franciscanoids can be about their ozone. I suggest Rose or perhaps Jazmin. Also Lavender–it attracts Butterflies.
At least one lamesteam media outlet did a follow up story on the ever self-righteous Mayor Ed ‘Not Me’ Lee and his denunciations of the Church, by running footage of Frisco City Public Workers using power washers to herd away the homeless sleeping on market street and elsewhere.
They even had file footage of Recent City Practices such as running water trucks alongside the sidewalk and jetting large volume streams across the pavement and into the campers perched there.
The metaphor of the dirty cooking kettle calling the stovetop grimy is an old tradition in Frisco Politics, and the Mayor – Ed Lee, who Promised He Wouldn’t Run, and Did – is an expert at such slimy politics.
Can you please provide a link so we can take it up with our Supervisors?
CH & YFC – how many times have you cleaned up vomit. feces, and needles in the inner city closest to you?
Or driven homeless people to government shelters, or mental facilities, or even jail?
Get the log out of your own eye before trying to take the splinter out of other people’s eyes – when it comes to your criticizing and your calumny.
Answer ,…Anon they never have… they are liberals.. they pontificate on how government should be spending our own money on the mendicant, never once thinking that maybe after over 50 years and spending Trillions of dollars on the “poor” that their policies of false compassion have failed. I have seen real poverty in Africa and South America where people are lucky to have a floor in huts or shacks.
Canisius has a good point about the Resident Homosex Harpies roosting on this board, and the way More Tax Money is the ‘solution. to problems they are creating and cashing in on too.
Nowhere else has had the ‘Aids Education / Prevention’ $$ lavished on Sodom by the Sea – where the Results Actually Show that spending more money on Educating Homo-Anal Coprophiles about STDs – leads to More STDs.
Other populations are seeing reductions in STD infection rates – but the Top Three of Sodom by the Sea transmission routes remain Homo-Anal Behaviors, Sharing Dirty Needles & Prostitution – Quite often All three rolled in to one, with the Conga Line of Buggery providing the meth & viagra to make it work.
Sooo… .’Obviously’ – Using Tax $$ to Educate / Prevent STDs – Only Increases their rates (particularly amongst Younger Males joining said Conga Line) and the likelihood they will already be Treatment Resistant – from a source getting subsidized treatment – just will enough to rejoin the party.
The taxpayer should not have to pay for the health care of those who contract sexual diseases through their OWN chosen immoral conduct.
Let them pay for their own Mortal Sins.