The November 28, 2013 issue of San Francisco’s homosexualist Bay Area Reporter published an article titled “Vatican asks Catholics for views on marriage.”
The BAR article began “In yet another indication of a changing Catholic Church, the Vatican is asking members of the laity their views on marriage and family life – and a whole lot more.
“News of Pope Francis’s wish to hear from the faithful on a variety of topics – including same-sex marriage, contraception, cohabitation, divorce, and remarriage – broke in a recent story in the National Catholic Reporter.
From coast to coast, reaction from LGBTs is “uniformly positive…”
The Vatican document Pastoral Challenges to the Family in the Context of Evangelization begins: “The mission of preaching the Gospel to all creation, entrusted directly by the Lord to his disciples, has continued in the Church throughout history. The social and spiritual crisis, so evident in today’s world, is becoming a pastoral challenge in the Church’s evangelizing mission concerning the family, the vital building-block of society and the ecclesial community. Never before has proclaiming the Gospel on the Family in this context been more urgent and necessary. The importance of the subject is reflected in the fact that the Holy Father has decided to call for a Synod of Bishops, which is to have a two-staged itinerary: firstly, an extraordinary general assembly in 2014, intended to define the status quaestionis and to collect the bishops’ experiences and proposals in proclaiming and living the Gospel of the Family in a credible manner; and secondly, an ordinary general assembly in 2015 to seek working guidelines in the pastoral care of the person and the family.”
At the bottom of the document is a series of questions that “allows the particular churches to participate actively in the preparation of the extraordinary synod.” Certain Catholics have apparently taken “active participation” to mean rewriting the survey for use in furthering their political agenda within the Church. Anti-family groups have issued their version of the survey and will forward the results to Rome. The group includes Call to Action, New Ways Ministry, DignityUSA, Roman Catholic Womenpriests, and others. These groups’ survey can be accessed through the National Catholic Reporter. The introduction reads: “As organizations committed to ensuring that all Catholics have a voice in Church governance and policy, we want to make sure that you have a chance to have your voice heard on these important matters. In order to do that, we have developed an online survey that reflects the original intent of the survey sent by Archbishop Lorenzo Baldisseri for you to complete. Questions marked with * have been added for additional information, and were not part of the original bishops’ survey.”
That the anti-family survey “reflects the original intent” is not true. This survey was far more interested in controlling the response than was the Vatican document. The Vatican document had no “multiple choice” answers–Catholics could respond in any way they liked. By contrast, 23 of the 49 questions in the Call to Action survey have multiple-choice answers, followed by a ‘comment” field. Multiple-choice surveys, which restrict the range of possible responses, are a well-understood instrument for producing prefab results.
In the Vatican document, question 8a reads: “Jesus Christ reveals the mystery and vocation of the human person. How can the family be a privileged place for this to happen?” No such question appears in the anti-family survey. In fact, neither the words “Jesus” nor “Christ” appear in this survey.
Here’s an example where the LGBT survey did not use an asterisk—indicating they did not consider it an “added” question. Question 5b in the Vatican document reads: “What is the attitude of the local and particular churches towards both the state as the promoter of civil unions between persons of the same sex and the people involved in this type of union?” Survey takers were invited to respond in any way they liked. But in the CTA survey the same question (#30) was presented as: “What is the attitude of the following towards marriage equality?” “The following” were then disaggregated answer categories. The first three (of six) answer categories were: “Attitude of my diocese toward marriage equality,” then “Attitude of my parish toward marriage equality,” then “Attitude of my small faith community toward marriage equality.” The multiple-choice responses were: “Hostile and Condemning”; “Negative”; “Neutral/NA”; “Somewhat supportive”; or “Highly supportive”.
In the first three answer categories, although the question itself was deliberately spun, there was a logical relation to the question. The answer categories simply investigated the question at diocesan, parish, and small faith group levels. But in the second set of three answer categories new factors are introduced that have nothing to do with marriage, or even same-sex “marriage,” at all. The next three answer categories to the same question “What is the attitude of the following towards marriage equality?” were: “Attitude of my diocese toward same-sex couples” then “Attitude of my parish toward same sex couples in a committed partnership” then “Attitude of my small faith community toward same sex couples in a committed partnership.” Those three categories of persons are not found in the Vatican’s question, which concerned people in same-sex civil unions. They aren’t even found in Call to Action’s own question “What is the attitude of the following towards marriage equality?” In a serious survey those questions would be seen as senseless, but this pro-homosexual survey is designed as a propaganda tool.
This is all so sinister. May God have mercy on our souls.
Looking a all sides should not worry those sinister “straightists”.
It is the will of Pope Francis who asked “hagan lío” (make trouble or a mess) in your dioceses. The Gays accepted the challenge. Who are we to judge?
Pray for the Pope, Gratias, the prime target for diabolic disorientation. Much the same as all leaders are attacked in order to bring down the whole of their flock.
Read your Catholic BIBLE and the ‘CATECHISM of the CATHOLIC CHURCH, Second Edition” for accurate Church teaching.
Heaven, Hell, Mortal Sin, God’s forgiveness with true repentance, Ten Commandments, Words of Jesus, etc., etc. can not change.
Heresy, Schism, and Relativism abound and confuse those who have not read the CCC in entirty. You can be ‘told’ anything, but you will never know if it is accurate without the CCC as your reference.
For the words of our last 3 Popes about the CCC go to: “What Catholics REALLY Believe SOURCE” on the internet –
Thank you Pete
Sadly, faith by survey is always political.
At a time when Catholic schools display shrines for Obama( the most militant pro-abort in American history),when bishops cuddle with the immoral Left, when divorce is high and Catholic marriages are few,and when abortion minded women come to abortion mills with rosaries dangling from the mirror, survey results will reflect a broken faith.
Almost no priests today—or bishops—are willing to speak about SIN from the pulpit. Most Catholics have no idea what SIN is.
Ask your own priest if sodomy is a sin. That’s a great question to ask after Mass when there are other church going Catholics surrounding Father. It’s my favorite question to ask other priests.
Father, there are Catholic priests on other ‘Catholic’ forums that openly endorse sodomidical unions and the idea that there would be no priests at all if homosexuals were barred from the priesthood. They also ascribe to the ‘flock’ as being the new teachers, imbued by the Spirit with authority.
That said, I do believe that priests should learn from the flock. That is heed the undeniable witness that we are severely depraved, not so much in our sins as that has always been the case, but our lack of the sense of sin.
The relationship is so much like exhausted parents who toss in the towel and often join their teenagers in rebellious behavior. Thanks to you for keeping up the good fight, even if that means just bringing up what should be obvious with other clerics. That said, I wouldn’t have your nerve as I would hate to see yet another priest backpedal or openly advocate for sodomy.
If you know of any Priest who does not teach the Faith accurately, give him a copy of the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition”.
If you can not afford to give him a copy of the CCC, write down this web site and tell him to check it out to accurately teach the Faith.
“What Catholics REALLY Believe SOURCE”
If he persists in teaching falsehoods – report him to his Diocese Bishop.
Quote his statement, and give the date, time and location of the offenses, as well as the paragraphs in the CCC that he is violating.
Heresy and Relativism within the Church must be curtailed.
Fr. Peter, thank you for your post. At least where I live, I have noticed for the past 20 years or so, that the parishes in my area always post a list of recently Baptized babies and young children. However, these same parishes do not post the names of those who have recently received the Sacrament of Marriage, nor of those who have recently joined a convent. This silence, along with the influence of secular society, probably leads many to the impression that these two life choices really are not that important. If we are reminded to pray for the recently Baptized, how so too, should we be reminded to pray for those recently Married or Consecrated.
The question I like to ask priests is “what IS the real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist”, you would be dismayed at some of the answers.
Excellent, Father Peter. All sorts of sin of a sexual nature need to be denounced by both our leaders and the laity. At one time Americans agreed with teachings of the Church that made it simple to understand: all sex outside of marriage is a sin. Now our cultural norms hold that virtually any sort of sexual activity outside of marriage is something to wink at or at least look away; denouncing it as sin is thought to be old-fashioned at best and judgmental at worst. Young people tend to approve of sexual license as a result of peer pressure and social mores falling to the lowest possible common denominator.
It amazes me how little denunciation of sex outside of marriage is heard from our priests today, and I appreciated your comments.
The Vatican will get all kinds of answers to the open ended questions in the survey, and the issues the extreme liberals bring up have all been talked about before; nothing new here. A Church that cares about the future
and that actually reaches out and seeks lay input on so many Church matters has my support; the Vatican may not agree with the answers they get but we can all agree that Rome reaching out to the rest of the Catholic is centuries overdue and a firm step in the right direction. Fill out the survey and participate in the dialogue, it will do all of us a world of good.
Didn’t Satan “survey” Eve’s opinion on whether or not to eat the fruit from the “tree of life”?
Didn’t Aaron “survey” the Israelite’s opinion, during Moses’ absence, on whether or not to build the golden calf?
Didn’t Pilot “survey” the Jew’s opinion on whether or not to crucify Jesus?
Did St. Peter first “survey” his hearers on the Day of Pentecost before he admonished them to accept Jesus and be Baptized?
Nobody surveyed you Tracy.
Anonymous, maybe “Nobody” already knows how I would answer!
Just another example of the smoke of Satan wafting through the Church. Prayer and fasting folks, prayer and fasting!
More of the ‘spirit’ of Vatican II. Anything goes!!!
This is heart breaking……I will pray tonight for our church..once again….persevere in prayer and with fortitude.
Given the greatest Challenge the Catholic Church faces right now according to the Holy Father is youth Unemployment, I am not qualified to judge.
This is big news folks. The Vatican actually wants to know what the people think. In a matter of days, the UK and Wales had the survey on the internet. Other nations did likewise. It took a long time for the pressure to build in the U.S. where many of the Bishops wanted to be the only ones to answer the questions. I suggest that each of us read the questions and answer them for our Bishops. Mail them or Email the answers to your Bishop. If you go to the web site of the alternate questionnaire mentioned in the article, you will see that it is not so far off the original as the writer indicated. Imagine, if you can, the Vatican of 50 years ago caring what we thought. Some of the questions are indicators of how out of touch the church is with what is going on in the world. How do you send a questionnaire to the deepest parts of Africa asking how we can increase the number of children? Why would you ask people in America if women take birth control? Etc.. But, on the whole it is a good survey, although written by people that don’t know much about how to conduct surveys. This is not an evil attempt to ruin the church. It is not diabolical. For once, a major synod of the church will have real data to deal with. That at least puts the windows ajar if not wide open.
” That at least puts the windows ajar if not wide open.” this way all the poisons can enter the Church
I am really not surprised Bob One, that you have no problem with this..Folks there is one solution and only one solution that we have now arrived at. The Church must now be physically cleansed of the filth. Gay clerics and the gay positive allies lay and clerical, must be hunted down and defeated, it will be up to us laity to do this. It is time to use the tactics of the Left. Occupy parishes directly confront those who are pulling the levers, are you ready for the fight, I know I am,,, and I cannot wait
It seems more of a survey that will enable all to see how badly catechized people are; how badly the Magisterium of the Church is spread by the bishops; how badly Catholic schools are teaching the Faith and how badly the Catholic press is in conveying what the pope says (e.g. heretical NCR).
You said it again about NCR being heretical. Posting anything remotely Catholic over there is tantamount to waving raw meat before a pack of starved dogs. Sad in the extreme.
Here is the preparatory document
Here is the statement from the Vatican saying it is not a survey of the laity:
Many US diocese have posted the survey online. Some are polling those working in ministry.
Do you think Cardinals and Diocese Bishops will answer truthfully?
If they answer truthfully, it may show what a lousy job they and their Diocese Priests are doing in accurately teaching the Faith.
Many of those working for the Diocese teaching the Faith do not know it accurately either.
For Christmas gifts, give “Catechisms of the Catholic Church, Second Edition” to those you love. The Laity will have to teach the faith accurately in spite of most Diocese Bishops.
I just helped clean out a house of an elderly Catholic couple who are having to leave their home. They had the first edition of the CCC in pristine condition. I go to adult ed and people bring in their catechisms in pristine condition. Those of us who use the catechism know that these books show wear extremely quickly. The bishops have tried everything to get people to read it. They quote it incessantly. People don’t care what is in the catechism, unless they are in an argument with someone. And some people don’t care at all. They dismiss it. Stop blaming the bishops. Everyone who criticizes a bishop adds to the problem.
Here comes, Anonymous, with another can of no-stick spray. Just because the cook doesn’t choose to use it is not his fault. Translation: it’s the eggs fault its burning in the pan! Yeah! That’s it! It’s the eggs fault. Darn the egg!
You must not get out much or read or really listen to fellow Catholics very often, Anonymous, if you truly believe that, “Everyone who criticizes a bishop adds to the problem.”
“Here comes, Anonymous, with another can of no-stick spray. ”
Thank you Ann Malley!
Fool the unsuspecting grazing sheep once with “false teachings and sex abuse scandals” then shame on the ravenous wolves.
Fool the comfortably sleeping sheep twice ( with more excuses and nonsense) then shame on the comfortably sleeping sheep for preferring to chew the regurgitated cud.
Ann Malley, you don’t even go to a Catholic Church! And you saying I don’t get out or listen to Catholics?
“Most Sacred Heart of Jesus, truly present in Holy Eucharist, I consecrate my body and soul to be entirely one with Your Heart, being sacrificed at every instant on all the altars of the world and giving praise to the Father pleading for the coming of His Kingdom.”
“Please receive this humble offering of myself. Use me as You will for the glory of the Father and the salvation of souls.”
“Most holy Mother of God, never let me be separated from Your Divine Son. Please defend and protect me as Your Special Child. Amen.”
“Most holy Mother of God, never let me be separated from Your Divine Son. Please defend and protect me as Your Special Child. Amen.”
Anonymous, If you want to remain or be a special child of God then you will not choose to hide in darkness and cleverly undermine the very faithful priests who DO uphold Church teaching regarding homosexual issues. Father Dariuz Oko has written about the tactics that you use. Undermining faithful priests for upholding Church teaching on homosexual issues is a common practice and pattern amongst those who are first worshipping the false god of homosexuality. You have consistently run interference for every homosexual activist on this site while claiming to be in “full communion.”
SEE: FR. DARIUSZ OKO’S MAJOR ARTICLE:”WITH THE POPE AGAINST THE HOMOHERESY”
In June 2012, Polish magazine Fronda published an extensive, incisive, and influential article on the papacy and what it calls the “Homoheresy” and the great powers of the group it calls the “Homomafia” in all levels of the Church hierarchy, going all the way to the Roman Curia – and on how Benedict XVI has tried to curtail the great influence of this underground network of deviation.
Catherine brings up a very good subject to discuss, which is people who claim to be Catholic, they hide under that name and yet disrespect good holy and faithful priests. Right now as we speak, not only are abortions being committed but also persecution of faithful priests are also being committed. THIS IS THE TRUTH! How often does a good holy priest try to give a faithful homily, yet to have to deal with their Bishop during the week just because someone who dissents decides to con or deceive or even use the Bishop to silence good priests!
That is happening daily around the globe! YES IT IS! Our priests are bound to obedience and can not defend themselves against such injustices! Why are some Bishops taunting the few devout priests that we have? Why all that pressure? Because of dissenting flock and pressure from the secular! IF we don’t defend the values from Christ right now then tomorrow who knows how much worst its going to get. Today is already here and we often see disgraceful behavior! People are attacking people with values but yet they r defending bad behavior against those of faith! NO MORE….We shall rise again, we shall have a rebirth in Christ! We shall stand our ground and say enough is enough! We shall re-unite! No more watching our innocent be dragged to the gutter because we feel helpless to do something about it or we feel outnumbered or out gunned!
We will pray, we will fast, we will honor our God with building true Character which once defined true Christian charity! Wrong is wrong! We need to understand the difference even if everyone is against us, we need to stand for what we hold true and dear…it is who we are, it is what defines us. God help us and give us the convictions to persevere.
What the blank are you people going off about? We were talking about how people don’t read the Catechism even when the bishops and the Pope tell them too. It’s not a judgment on them. It was just a reminder that not many Catholic’s give a hoot what the bishop’s say. Remember how many Catholics voted for pro-choice politicians even after being reminded about intrinsic evil?
My best advice to all is to ignore Anon’s uncharitable comments…..”you people” “what the blank” Wow (puzzled look)
well moving on…I was trying to encourage good people of faith to keep on…to pray and to fast as a reminder of what the good Archbishop from San Francisco has asked us to do….trying to encourage no matter what article pops up here or anywhere else, that may cause us to be discouraged…that we not allow it because we must persevere with fortitude in Christ Jesus!
And you, Anonymous, may attend a Church that advertises ‘Catholic’ on its bulletin, but what you seem to have learned there falls far short of the mark. So keep your full communion cake and disregard the poison. God bless and keep you as you revert to the same old and tired argument.
That said, if you don’t understand what the ‘blank’ people are going off about regarding your comments, then you are not listening. Not listening to Bishops, but being selective.
And thank you Catherine and Abeca! I wish I could truly dialogue with this Anonymous person who so loves the Church, but he/she stubbornly resists posting with any identifying name. Perhaps he/she will adopt one for a Christmas gift to us all!
Any Church that is in union with it’s local bishop and the Pope is a Catholic Church. Stop spreading lies about poison. I am sure that the Lord and His Blessed Mother take great offense at your attack on the Bride of Christ. God bless you and lead you to a true Catholic Church. You attacked me when you live in a glass house. The other person who attacked me without just cause seems to have an obsession with homosexuality. I guess anyone that says something she disagrees with is “gay”, as they say these days. This woman is so delusional she thinks a priest in Poland writes about me. I doubt very much that priests are punished for teaching the Faith. I do not believe the lies and hatred about the Catholic bishops that is so commonly written on this website. I think abeca is one of the best Catholics who post here, but I think she has been fooled by old and biased gossip. There are people who put themselves above the Pope and the bishops, above Scripture and Tradition, as well. They hold their own standards of morality and criticize those who are faithful and loyal to the Truth. Some of the first heretics were those who thought that the Church was too lenient on sinners. There were anti-popes who eventually reconciled with the Church. One must understand authority. It is the error of every heretic and schismatic. “I know better than the Church and those who God has given the authority to declare what is bound and unbound.” It is a pernicious error that feeds a person’s pride.
A lot of people who post here look down on obedient Catholics and consider them stupid. God looks down on them, too and blesses them.
Anonymous, if you understood how things work you would be giving thanks here for the opportunity to spread Truth. It is not a personal battle of you versus me or Catherine or Abeca. Bishops have free will and use it all the time to follow God’s will or not. That said, God does bring good out of bad, but that doesn’t negate the reality of the evil that Bishops often do or promote.
As to whether or not you ‘believe’ there are unfaithful Bishops or that faithful priests are often persecuted, your belief means little as there is reality to consider. Look back through history. Do you honestly believe that Padre Pio wasn’t persecuted? How about St. Theresa of Avila? How about Joan of Arc?
And nobody is looking down on obedience, but rather calling out that we are to be obedient to God, that is obedient to our superiors in all but sin. And willfully putting oneself in the occasion of sin is sin, Anonymous. If you do not understand it as such, thank your conscience in the way it was formed. But if others do see the hypocrisy and call it out as such for the benefit of the flock, to the honor and glory of God, let them be. God uses it all.
You also should look to yourself, Anonymous, and your own formation in the Faith before you call out someone like Catherine for randomly labeling anyone ‘gay’…as they say these days.
If she has misconstrued any of your positions, the blame falls on you, Anonymous, as you insist on remaining in the shadows. The fact that you continue to take pot shots at others from the dark calls you out as cowardly in your positions and potentially vacillating.
God bless you and thank you once again Ann Malley for charitably speaking the truth. Cardinal Arinze was not being prideful when he told my friend’s husband that a particular bishop was bad. The Servant of God, Father John Hardon, was not being prideful when he said that our seminaries were infested with homosexuals. Yes, Father Hardon used that particular word “infested” and not because he did not care about the souls of these men. Father Hardon said that many of these men started out with good intentions but they should not have been admitted to the seminary because they were very easily seduced by the growing pervasive network. Father Hardon was not being prideful when he asked the laity to speak up to Cardinal Mahony when the pagan looking Cathedral was being built. Last year I received a phone call from a woman who I did not know, she lived in another town. She started to explain the terrible problems taking place in her parish. This woman then told me the name of the priest who had instructed her to call and ask for help. Ann Malley, I know that you will not find it surprising that the priest who asked this woman to call for help was once a priest who once cruelly persecuted Catholics for adhering to all of the teachings and traditions of the Catholic Church. People have forgotten that when you adhere in trust to the Fullness of Truth that goodness always prevails even through very difficult trials. This IS our Catholic faith but it has been watered down and distorted. Just as you are speaking to anonymous in love, I had once spoken to this priest and told him that Our Lord was not going to be pleased with how much he was harming the faith of many.
continued from December 17, 2013 at 12:21 pm post
Ann Malley, This priest put his eyes and his head down and he was now suffering because he knew it was the truth. The truth is often hurtful to hear but when said in love, it eventually prevails. I also told this priest that I personally held no animosity toward him but that I knew deep down inside that he knew what he was doing was very wrong and I told him that God would hold him accountable. I told him that he had not received the proper formation in his seminary and this is why he was able to justify persecuting those who wanted to remain loyal to their faith and their traditions. Yes, and on top of the cruel persecution this priest had even openly admitted that women should be ordained. I told this priest that I would pray for him and that one day he would come full circle to realize what he was doing and that his eyes would be opened to clearly see the truth. This is the priest who asked the woman to call and ask how the faithful could help their parish to become a faithful Catholic parish. This is not an isolated example. Many of our priests cannot speak up because they will be persecuted by a bishop or by fellow priests who are like minded in their political agendas. The laity in this case, does have the freedom and the duty to charitably speak up when error and persecution are taking place. I would like to be able to believe that the poster who hides and takes pot shots is simply naive but sadly this is not the case. There has been a remarkable distinct pattern of being threatened by the Fulness of Truth and strategic attacks which appear to demonstrate more than a simple blind spot of naivety, yet conversions are possible every day when the truth is spoken in love. Thank you again Ann Malley!
It is absolutely important to speak up when one hears error. Persecution should be exposed to the proper authorities. I am not threatened by the Fullness of Truth-Jesus Christ-nor am I threatened by any teaching of the Church. I am not naïve. I have hit the glass ceiling that truly traditional Catholics hit many times. I am not gay. I do not try to change Church teaching. I accept the teaching and the teachers as coming from the Lord. I desire for them and you and I to be faithful, holy and loving. For this it is necessary to attend Holy Mass as often as possible, daily if you can. It is necessary to receive our Lord in Holy Communion with humble and contrite hearts. It is necessary to pray the rosary. You know that the Pope, bishops and priests depend on our prayers because Satan desires their souls. I am glad that you prayed for an erring priest but please keep praying for him because Satan is even more aggressive against priests who turn away from error. Our Lord permits our trials for our purification but we must strengthen each other with our prayers and sacrifices.
Catherine, absolutely, I believe you. Crying ‘prideful’ has become as old as crying ‘wolf’…. or ‘hater’ which is a more popular slur today.
While pride itself can be sinful, fear of being prideful is the perfect rope with which the Devil will seek to hogtie those faithful who truly seek to do God’s will. It’s straight out of The Discernment of Spirits. I forget which rule it is, but you know precisely what I mean. The same can be said for ‘fear’ of being disobedient. It all comes under the heading of ‘faulty reasoning.’
A good many evil deeds are allowed to pass under the guise of obedience and humility. How much of the pedophile scandal was let to go unpunished, to grow, to taint, to seduce, corrupt, and fester under the auspices of not judging, trusting superiors in the face of sin, and leaving the rest to God. Very easy that, leaving the rest to God if one doesn’t have a conscience. But I do not hold that Our Lord will give us an easy out for allowing sin and that which is against the Faith to go unchecked. Not if we are confirmed and actually know the Faith.
God bless you for all you do, Catherine! Keep it up!
Through this thread, it has answered my prayers. I was praying about writing to a Bishop in defense of a priest, although I do not belong to his parish, but I do visit and feel that he is being intimated due to dissenters who complained about his faithful homilies. So with that said, pray for me….I have to speak up.
Thank you Jesus for answering my prayers. It is always wise to pray first…….
Yes speak up. Do not use words like dissenters. Give specific verifiable information. Saying “Father x is being intimidated” is an interpretation. Say “Father x was told that people would stop giving to the church if he gave another homily about traditional marriage.” Things like that.
And when particular names are mentioned, Anonymous, on other threads you (or those in the Anon pool) discount them as not specific enough. IOW: You stop your ears to truth, no matter what it is and continue on your way.
But that is your response to conscience. Others respond differently.
Having said as much, try reading the posts of actual priests on CCD. If that isn’t specific enough for you, then there is no meeting your criteria. But that is the point, it seems.
Because I grew up studying my catechism every school day and attending Mass every day of my life as a child, I rarely read the CCC any longer, though I love it. My first one has long since been passed along to other students, as we did in our frugal Catholic schools once upon a time. My newest one has been read through from start to finish three times in the last 10 years, and I was surprised each time that I learned nothing new. I guess I pretty much have it down pat now after all these years.
If someday you come to my house to pack up the possessions, and you find that all my books are in good condition, don’t worry about where my soul will spend eternity based on that observation alone. The sisters taught us to treat books like the treasures they so often are, and we did. And I do to this day.
My problem isn’t knowing the Catechism of the Catholic Church almost by heart; my problem is making sure I remember to strive to live out those teachings because I believe in them with every fiber of my being.
I learned about how really wonderful human beings lived out the teachings of the Catholic faith through instruction as well as by close observation of the wonderful nuns and priests we had. The pages of my mind are so frequently turned as to be well worn indeed in contemplating the wonders of the love of God for little children as demonstrated to us so indelibly by the intellectual gifts, heartfelt charity and remarkable dedication of our devoted Catholic nuns and priests. They passed along the catechism to us through instruction and by beautiful example of what it means to be a Catholic who loves God.
wonderfully said, Maryanne Leonard!
Maryanne Leonard you are a good soul, thank you for being honest and sharing your thoughts. You are right, there are many who went to private Catholic schools and the several I know are no longer Catholic. Where did they go wrong? Just recently the realty hit closer to home, someone we know went to a Devout Catholic University, yet even with them attending daily mass, adoration, praying the rosary and studying their CCC and the bible, they fell astray, they are now not attending Mass and are living away from their values. What went wrong? Of course its important to feed our souls good things so it helps us overcome ideals from the secular but for some reason, some just get terribly tempted and fall prey to the tricks of the evil one and allow themselves to be influenced by those who dissent.
What I do know that in order for us to benefit from those wonderful gifts from our faith, we must be consistent in our growth in humility and to strive to fear the Lord with all our hearts. Those are key to help us approach with meekness and with truth. I say this because of the very youth that I see turn bad, because of their pride and low self something. It is heart breaking. Only God can cure them of whatever pride is blinding them. But we do need to embrace with humility all faith filled gifts, the sacraments and sacramental etc…to help humble us…..
Very few Bishops quote the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition”.
Most do not publically, actively and frequently encourage anyone to read or study it.
Any reference to the CCC on their Diocese and Parish web sites – is usually hidden under other headings, if it is referenced at all.
(The CCC should be second only to the Bible for home study.)
When was the last time your Parish Priest (who follows the orders of the Diocese Bishop) – told everyone to study the CCC:
from the pulpit?
in the Church bulletin?
on the Parish web site?
when? how often?
It is a sad fact that most US Bishops do not encourage Catholics and others to read the Bible and study the CCC.
You know Dottie, and all the other CCC fundamentalists on this board: Just because the CCC is an authentic synthesis of the faith does not mean that it is more authentic than prior teachings or is the ultimate authority that must be cited in every instance. If, for example, the council of Nicaea taught definitively about the nature of Christ, then it is silly to expect a Bishop to cite the CCC on the nature of Christ. CCC does not trump the ecumenical counsel, it merely synthesizes in one place much of what the Church has taught throughout its Tradition. It is a horrible downgrading of the immense treasures of insight and teaching to require a Bishop to restrict their sources to the CCC. This is just silliness. The Church has riches far beyond the CCC!
Dottie, last year, the Year of Faith, we were supposed to study the Catechism. The time for study never ends, but now is the time to spread the Gospel. Even if you don’t know very much, you know more than the unchurched. The poor need rosaries, Bibles Catechisms. Pope Francis is asking churches to stay open for those who seek the Lord-unlocked. It would be good to have these things in your worship space. They will get taken. That is what we want. I can tell that you have the heart of an evangelist.
Thank God yet again that you seemingly have a faithful pastor, Anonymous. For while you call out Dottie as one who has the heart of an Evangelist, she is also the same person who must obviously have experience with pastors/priests not encouraging the reading of the CCC. Why? Because she is speaking Truth as stated below:
“…It is a sad fact that most US Bishops do not encourage Catholics and others to read the Bible and study the CCC.”
Dottie didn’t seem to say that the Bishops should ‘restrict’ their teaching to the CCC, YFC. That said, while what the Church teaches is rich and beautiful in its Fullness, the very fact that there is a CCC would indicate the need for a universal teaching tool – if only for the basics which many sadly lack.
I wish the broad mindedness would be similarly extended to the teachings of the Council of Trent when compared to that of Vatican II.
Ann Malley, it is not sinful or immoral in any way to use the anonymous default. I have personal reasons for doing so. And you are correct. There is not a personal battle. It is spiritual warfare. You and Catherine believe that you are fighting against evil. I try to tell you that you are doing evil. But you don’t listen. You and I need to strive for absolute purity and holiness. Only that will help the Church and the Lord. Purity and holiness requires docility to the voice of the Lord which comes through the Holy Catholic Church. Others can speak of the Lord, too, but only the Pope is his Vicar on earth. You both have written things of the Pope which indicate that you do not trust him. You can trust him. You need to obey. You don’t have to agree with every decision they make. But you should not publicly criticize them. That is what Jesus told St. Catherine. The Blessed Mother, in her apparitions, always left things to the Church and the bishops. There have been bishops who have done evil deeds, I acknowledge that. But that is an occasion of prayer. We are not supposed to dwell on things like that. We have been told to take the Gospel to the poor. That is our job now. God will take care of the rest.
God bless you, Anonymous, for your kind posting. That said, I do not consider your use of the Anonymous moniker to be a sin, but rather a stumbling block to your outreach efforts regardless of your motives. You cannot fail to see my point on this matter, for your postings display obvious intelligence. Your docility in this particular posting to me is most appreciated, however. Thank you.
I am glad to know that you acknowledge the reality that there have been bishops that have done evil. That is a good start. Regarding prayer for them, however, it is necessary at times to understand the need, to see the wound in order to pray most effectively for a healing. (Often to simply understand what to the senses is a complete contradiction to reality.)
So dutifully dashing off something to the effect that ‘all Bishops teach truth’ or ‘all Bishops advise the faithful to read the Catechism’ although well intended, is a lie. That is evil. It is giving people the illusion that if they walk into a Catholic Church they will automatically get the fullness of Truth. While that is so when one receives the Blessed Sacrament (Truth Incarnate) that is absolutely not – carte blanche – truth when it comes to what is preached, allowed, and/or encouraged. That misunderstanding has turned off many a soul who was looking for Catholic Truth, Anonymous. That may not be your experience, but it has been mine. IOW: Denying there is a problem doesn’t gain one respect, followers, or make the problems disappear.
cont to anonymous
If, however, you put your cause forward as you have now – that is stating that some Bishops do evil, but it is a matter for prayer – that would be different. I applaud your attitude regarding prayer, Anonymous, and recourse to God. That said, while you may not agree on Catherine and my approach, different times call for different action.
Your comments regarding bringing the gospel to the poor is also very important. But what gospel are we to bring, Anonymous? The full one or half truths? Have you ever tried to speak to a non-Catholic about the Truth in the Catholic Church and been hit up by a very clear view from said non-Catholic about the scandalous actions of clergy/bishops etc? The ambiguities. The seeming inconsistencies. The disgusting turnabout on long held truths, that haven’t really changed, but seem to have done precisely that because of what is preached.
I have. That is why, in charity, I do admit and call out the inconsistencies I see in the fullness of Faith and the practice of it. That is a huge mea culpa on behalf of Catholics who have scandalized themselves and others by not remaining true to Truth itself, despite the fantastic package of love and salvation we’ve all received. That’s not putting myself above the Pope or the clergy, but rather showing my own woundedness, Anonymous. The disaffected woundedness that cries – WHY!
to Anonymous continued:
How long, Oh Lord. God forgive us. (If you get down to the root of why I post what I post, you might see that I’m actually adopting a lot of what Pope Francis says we should – that is an honest assessment of having messed up in the past and the honest desire to reach people where they are. With TRUTH.)
There is a new article right here on CCD written by a priest about the goings on in his diocese in D.C. About how good priests are hushed up or punished or marginalized. Would you have these Faithful Fathers marginalized even more by being treated as if they were all under some grand delusion? Of course, you wouldn’t. I would hope not. At best I would guess you are as conflicted as many others. You want to be obedient – but how? What does that mean when superiors create a landmine of half truths and misleading turns that push an agenda that in itself is not Catholic.
Regarding Pope Francis, he needs our prayers. VERY MUCH SO. He also needs clarity. I pray for that. For the faithful, yes, but also for the Pope himself. He will answer for all the ‘mess.’ And a mess it is. For while we are told to go out and preach the gospel, we have also been instructed to speak out to our priests etc if we see problems. As for trusting, I trust the Holy Ghost, I pray for the Pope.
Thanks again, Anonymous, for speaking more to the point. It’s appreciated.
Anonymous writes to DOTTIE “It would be good to have these things in your *worship space*.”
“worship space ” = Protestant terminology wreaking havoc in the design of Catholic Cathedrals and churches that are ‘Ugly As Sin’
Thor has spoken!
This is the time of year when you can really see the intrusion of Protestant customs into Catholic homes and churches. The Advent Wreath is a Protestant custom. The Christmas Tree is a Protestant Custom. Most of the Christmas Carols and Hymns are Protestant.
I just read an article that said that one of the lofty themes of Christmas was the “birth of the Magi” and described a figurine of Santa kneeling and praying to the baby Jesus as “shocking.” Here is the Pew Research findings on Christmas:
Anonymous writes, “I have hit the “glass ceiling” that truly traditional Catholics hit many times. I am not gay.” = Thou doth protest too much and undermine truthful priests too much.
Perhaps those many *glass ceiling* hits have impaired your memory.
There is nothing truly traditional in your choice of words or post. Dead Giveaway!
“Worship spaces”…..”glass ceiling”….. “Thor has spoken! ” = All Protestant, Corporate, Pagan and Wiccan terminology
Compare Archdiocese of Los Angeles survey
to the one by Catholics in Alliance for the Common Good.
Then compare to the one mentioned in the article sponsored by Catholic Organizations for Renewal.
Okay. I looked at these, and completed the LA Archdiocese one.
If anything, these are worded in a way that is will bias answers in the opposite way the article here, or are too vague and clinical to elicit a an honest lay response… it kind of shames the survey taker into an wanting to respond the way the Church would prefer. I read the tone to be: “How ignorant are you?” (less is better). “How heretical are you?” “Does the Church adequately attempt to dispel heresy and ignorance?” “How can it do better?”
It seems like the gist of this is not to adapt Church morals to popular opinion, but to get an honest sense of the attitudes… In that, maybe the more liberal ones are more effective. There is always a tendency in Catholicism to leave attitudes and life choices that are in obvious conflict with the Official… unspoken and unexamined. Not sure the one I took will accomplish that. (though I answered honestly).
Sounds like a pick the sins you want to commit cafeteria plan from the modern Catholic Church!
Jesus said to go therefore and TEACH all nations!
Jesus did not say, “Go therefore and take surveys then stick your finger up in the air to see which way the ol’ political wind is blowing and then you will really know which particular teachings you should avoid like the plague in order to keep them smiling and happy clap-py in the pews.”
Matthew 28: 16] And the eleven disciples went into Galilee, unto the mountain where Jesus had appointed them.  And seeing him they adored: but some doubted.  And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth.  Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.  Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world. Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible
According to Anonymous, Catherine, Jesus really meant go forth and give all nations a book to read and let them figure it out by themselves. We don’t need to say a word. Too controversial and we don’t want the blame if folks don’t like it.
Catherine, I am a bit less cynical than you on this issue. I see this survey as a marvelous opportunity for our church leaders to learn what is going on in the world in which our priests and bishops must operate. I don’t see it at all as an instrument to let the lay people determine what the teachings of the church should be. Too many of our church leaders, in my opinion, don’t know much about the world. They are sent off at an early age to the seminary, then into graduate school in Rome for the smart ones, and then into some Vatican office or chancery. Too many don’t have parish experience dealing with the faithful and their problems. This survey will not change church teachings, but should help the church determine how best to teach our beliefs. If we are to gather in the young people, preaching and telling them to read the catechism won’t do it. That is not how they learn any more. My college age grandchildren don’t even use email very much because it is “so 90s”, and facebook is now considered the province of old people. The kids have moved on. We need the data from the survey to tell us where we need to go and how to get there. I hope I am not too Pollyanna about this.
Bob one in all fairness, you usually reply to a comment and when they reply back, you almost always do not respond back…the dialogue finishes and no real dialogue was accomplished. In order to hopefully get to the truth, we need to be humble and open to answer or reply and lets hope others don’t jump in and say mean things to discourage real dialogue, even of one does not like the challenge, we should not discourage it unless it truly was uncharitable but as we can see some anon’s have different definitions of what consists of true charity.
Corporate men will never teach you how to strive to be faithful to the authentic teachings of the Catholic Church. Corporate men will teach you how to pastorally go along to get along out in the world. The world loves it’s own. We need holy men, holy bishops, holy pastors, holy priests and a holy laity. This is what transmits the faith to others. Not surveys. The only survey that should be given by the Vatican is a survey requesting the potential candidate names of priests in the US who are completely faithful (in actions and words) to the authentic teachings of the Church. These are the priests who are known to the faithful. These are the priests who should be appointed as our bishops and our pastors. Many others have lost their salt and potentially our religious freedom too. If the department of the Curia that helps to select bishops has been that lost or corrupt and needs to take surveys to find out what is wrong then it is more than obvious that for a very long time they have been selecting the lousiest bishops who in turn protect very bad pastors and priests who are not at all interested in teaching exactly what the Church teaches. You seem to think a survey will accomplish something. The only thing this survey will accomplish is a heads up warning in assisting dissenters and professional Catholics on how to be more clever in disguising their dissent. How’s that for the real “world” truth!
You obviously have not read the document!
Catherine, we seem to disagree on the usefulness of this survey. First of all, it is suppose to give the Church some information that will help the Bishops as they meet in the extraordinary synod to discuss married life around the world and how best to teach Catholic beliefs to the people in the pews. Telling is not the same as teaching, by a long shot. Think of the simple implications of this survey. It is the first time in recent memory, if not ever, when the Vatican ever asked lay people to tell them about their lives in real families, what they believe, which rules they follow and why, etc. You can’t make this stuff up. This is a stunning sea change in the Vatican’s approach. Rather than criticize it and get all worked up, we should be praying that the Bishops are truthful in how they summarize the data from their diocese, and that they information is helpful to the synod.
The Survey is only asked of Bishops, its not like its a public poll. If you are not a Bishop, you will not be asked for your opinion, thank you very much.