The following comes from a July 29 Catholic News Agency article by Kevin Jones:
A leader in LGBT grant-making has told business leaders that he wants to shut down the political fight for religious freedom exemptions in the U.S. within three years.
And these words are not empty rhetoric. A Catholic News Agency investigation has found that millions of dollars have been poured into efforts to combat religious freedom exemptions in the United States.
“We are at a crossroads where the choices we make will mean we will fight religious exemptions for two to three years or have a protracted twenty year struggle on our hands,” Tim Sweeney told leading business executives and others attending the Out & Equal Workplace Advocates executive forum, held in San Francisco in late March 2015.
Sweeney is a former program director of the Evelyn & Walter Haas, Jr. Fund and a former president and CEO of the Gill Foundation, which he left in 2013.
Both non-profit foundations are involved in funding LGBT advocacy, including gay marriage, and have begun to target religious freedom. A Catholic News Agency examination of public grant listings and tax forms has found at least six foundations and funds have made grants totaling about $4.8 million to target religious freedom, especially as it is exercised by objectors to gay marriage.
The San Francisco-based Evelyn and Walter Haas, Jr. Fund is one of the major funders. It is a private family foundation with half a billion dollars in assets. It has made at least $685,000 in grants opposed to a broad understanding of religious liberty, the fund’s grant database shows.
In 2014 the fund made two separate grants totaling $150,000 to the northwestern U.S.-based Pride Foundation in order to “lead a project to ensure that ‘religious liberty’ claims do not erode gains in marriage equality and nondiscrimination protections.” In 2015 it made another $200,000 grant for the same purpose.
The Berkeley, California-based Pacific School of Religion received a $125,000 grant to support the Umoja project. The fund’s grant listing said the grant was intended to “engage African American clergy in preventing ‘religious liberty’ claims from eroding gains in marriage equality and nondiscrimination protections.” A $60,000 grant with the same aim went to the D.C.-based organization Many Voices.
A 2015 grant of $50,000 helped fund the American Civil Liberties Union Foundation to target religious liberty claims.
The Haas Jr. fund’s grant listings also show a $100,000 grant to the Gill Foundation in 2014 to support the Movement Advancement Project, an LGBT advocacy think tank. The grant funded work including “research to develop messaging around gay rights and ‘religious liberty’ issues.”
The Colorado-based Gill Foundation is both a recipient of grants and a maker of grants that target religious freedom. The foundation’s tax forms show it made a $100,000 grant in 2013 to give general support to the American Civil Liberties Union Foundation and to support a “religious exemptions project” at the foundation.
The Gill Foundation had over $234 million in assets at the close of 2013. It was founded by the politically savvy former businessman Tim Gill. He has worked to increase the number of funders of LGBT advocacy. He has also pursued a long-term political strategy of advancing LGBT causes by targeting donations to local and statewide political campaigns to stop his political opponents at the start of their careers.
A fourth foundation involved in the grant making is the David Bohnett Foundation, whose website lists a May 2014 grant of $150,000 over two years to the Columbia Law School’s Public Rights / Private Conscience Project, run by the law school’s Center for Gender and Sexuality Law.
The project gathers together scholars to oppose religious exemptions. It has been particularly critical of versions of the Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA), including the legislation originally passed by the Indiana legislature in March 2015. After vocal opposition from LGBT activists and pressure from large businesses, the Indiana legislature changed the law in a way that drew harsh criticism from many religious freedom advocates.
The Columbia Law School project has also criticized legal efforts to protect employers with objections to mandated insurance coverage for contraception and efforts to protect individuals with religious objections to recognizing same-sex unions as marriages.
While the David Bohnett Foundation’s grant listing described the project as the “Public Value / Private Conscience Project,” Katherine Franke, director of the law school’s Center For Gender & Sexuality Law, confirmed to Catholic News Agency on May 22 that the grant went to the Public Rights / Private Conscience Project. The project’s backers include the Ford and Arcus foundations, which have given at least $900,000 to support it.
Bohnett has been an outspoken critic of religious groups who are not aligned with LGBT advocacy. In an Oct. 9, 2009 acceptance speech for the GLSEN Lifetime Achievement Award, he characterized Catholic, evangelical and Mormon leaders as “among our greatest adversaries” and said that “evangelical and fundamentalist groups that teach homosexuality is a sin” are those who “stand in the way of fairness and equality.”
Sweeney’s March 2015 remarks to the Out & Equal Executive Forum contended that LGBT advocates “face a new set of threats around religious exemptions to laws that protect us and our families.”
Sweeney contended that laws like Religious Freedom Restoration Acts and decisions like the 2014 Hobby Lobby case (Burwell v. Hobby Lobby) are “all about using ‘religious liberty’ as an excuse to discriminate against LGBT people and others.”
He called on his allies to set up a national narrative that “questions the notion of an ‘attack’ on religious freedom” and “clarifies how discrimination affects gay people, women, religious minorities and other communities.”
Sweeney praised the failure of legislatures to pass religious freedom laws, saying “We exposed the discriminatory intention behind the Indiana and Arkansas RFRA laws, and limited some of the damage in these unnecessary and harmful measures.”
In an announcement released before the executive forum, Out & Equal said the forum would be attended by 50 “high-ranking and emerging” LGBT corporate leaders at business giants like Bain & Company, Comcast, Dell, Freddie Mac, Hilton Worldwide, Oracle, and PricewaterhouseCoopers.
The event’s presenting sponsors were the Walt Disney Company and Wells Fargo, while other leading sponsors included Deloitte, Hewlett-Packard, Intuit and the media company Thomson Reuters.
No surprise here. Satan’s LGBT minions continue their demonic attack against the good and the right. It is interesting that they are consciously going after the knockout punch against the Church and other religious bodies. I agree that if they can’t get us out in 3 years, a 20 year legal insurrection will ensue, just like as has been done with respect to abortion.
Fr. Michael … I don’t think I’m anyone’s –much less Satan’s – minion and I certainly don’t speak for the LGBT community but as a – to quote Jessie Helms “Garden Varity Lesbian” – here’s what my agenda is…and isn’t.
First, I’d like protection from being fired from a job just for being for being gay. Doesn’t that seem reasonable? Second, I’d like not to be denied goods and services just for being gay. All my local stores and businesses would never do that, however I can see myself driving cross country in the rural South, have my car break down and the only mechanic in town won’t fix it because of my HRC bumper sticker. At age 41 I still haven’t bought a house but if I’m ever able to, I don’t want the seller to refuse me if he somehow…
To Fr. Michael Contd… My “gay agenda” does not have anyone…except the Pope… being able to require my pastor to perform same sex weddings (including my own if it ever comes to that) or to say or not say anything he believes from the pulpit. I do believe there is a gray area, the so called “florists and cake decorators issue. I can f see their point and feel bad for those who don’t want to provide services for a same sex wedding, (even though most of them are misguided Protestant fundamentalists) however there are so few of us and not all of us want to get married and so few of them I think a carve out of some sort is reasonable. Still I’m not sure how you can differentiate between Melissa, the sweet little Holy Roller baker and…
…….Jethro the mechanic who would leave a girl stranded. I hope this is helpful. PS: If I did end up in Jethro’s shop in Backwater Missabama, I’d rely on Our Lady to get me out of it.
Can you document how many times this has happened?
Your stereotyping of Southerners is most uncharitable.
…knows I’m gay, of for a lender to refuse me credit for the same reason
Fr. Michael, this is the gay con job so wonderfully explained by C&H, they say they want protection from being fired, to not be denied housing etc. However what they and the satanic Gill foundation demands is complete acceptance and absolutely no opposition to their point of view. They will now use the rule of law to have people fired who know what the definition of marriage is (C&H that would be the lifelong union of man and woman) they will use the rule law to remove the tax exempt status of Church’s, they will push their agenda until Faithful are martyred or in camps…
“C&H”: Your comment is execrable. In fact, legal protections exist for a good number of things you fear. In some circumstances (except for the 5 dopes on the Supreme Court, and Mr. Gates, head of the Boy Scouts), discrimination against homosexual sexual demands is justified.
Moreover, what you claim to fear is simply not believable. The homosexual lobby wants the destruction of “straight” America, and particularly the Catholic Church. If you do not, too bad; join “courage” and defend your Church, publicly.
C&H:
Catholic moral theology already has the proper categories to deal with your objections. Human beings have rights to certain things: food, shelter, employment, religion, speech, etc. The sexual proclivities of any human being do not affect access to these things. A mechanic should not refuse service to someone who is same sex attracted anymore than he should refuse someone based on their race.
On the other hand, forced participation with immoral activities is a profound violation of religious freedom and the freedom of association. If a SSA person walks into a bakery wanting a loaf of sourdough bread, no problem. If a SSA person walks into a bakery and wants the bakery to bake a cake celebrating a “same sex marriage,”…
… [I was cut off] then a proper understanding of religious freedom and right of association would allow for the refusal of service for the wedding cake.
Bu then how do you write legislation that exempts a baker from making a cake for a gay wedding because of religious beliefs and not also exempt the fundamentalist food market owner who won’t sell to Catholics or Jews. To put a point on it, instead of my having a breakdown in Backwater Missabama it’s you, in your Roman collar and Jethro won’t serve you because his religious beliefs are that “Papists” are the “Spawn of Satan”. Is that OK?
C&H, and others — Christ truly loves us, and died for us all, including you– and He wants all of us– including you! — in Heaven!! First of all, you are a CHILD OF GOD, (not “gay,” to God, with a big label!) and a HUMAN BEING!! We are all human beings, with problems and trials in life– and Christ is there, to help us! It is always hard, to follow Christ! But we are not made for this world, anyway– it is a place of trials, and the Christian who has passed through all his/her trials– is ready, by obediently following Christ– for Heaven! Christ is very SMART– and CHASTITY is a GIFT, which helps us get to Heaven!! REJOICE!!
C&H, If I wanted to start a Catholic ministry group that advocates for justifying male, polygamous adulterers, would you support my group or condemn it?
I suppose that such a group could argue from a Christian perspective that since multiple wives were common in Jewish society in Palestine at the time of Christ they were returning to our roots. However as a feminist who believes that humanity’s experience with polygamy, from King David’s concubines to the renegade Mormon cults of today, women have always been abused, I’d have to be against it. If your’e married, ask your wife what she thinks :-)
Saint Benedict, pray for us.
Another bunch of Constitution trashing freedom haters!
vTold Ya So – the Persecutions are already in progresse, as are the Retaliation Pogroms. Time to recognize the Attack for what it is – EVIL
“Bohnett has been an outspoken critic of religious groups who are not aligned with LGBT advocacy. In an Oct. 9, 2009 acceptance speech for the GLSEN Lifetime Achievement Award,
he characterized Catholic, evangelical and Mormon leaders as “among our greatest adversaries”
and said that “evangelical and fundamentalist groups that teach homosexuality is a sin” are those who “stand in the way…
Michael .. Of course as Catholics we know that the :”Evangelical and fundamentalist groups that teach homosexuality is a sin” are just plain wrong.
C&H wrong as she always is…. it is a sin and always will be
C&H when it comes down to final battle between Christ and His Church and people like those run this Gil Foundation who will side with. ?????? Because there is no doubt in my mind that the Gil Foundation wants Faithful Catholics removed society and the parishes burned to ground… whose side are you own…I really want to know and there is no middle ground here
The problem lies with people who pridefully state that they are on the “right” side of a world with no middle ground. Besides other problems, this is the sin of pride, and most people throughout history who thought there was some apocalyptic war coming and insisted that they were on the “right” side of it were the David Koresh’s, Charlie Manson’s, Bin laden’s, & Adolf Hitler’s of the world. They bring on their own apocalypse and most of the world sees their proponents for the evil men they actually are.
C&H: (note: I replied to your comments, here, because I didn’t have a reply point in your comment.)
Your “smiley face” correctly inferred that my question was a hypothetical. :) I appreciated it. I asked the question, though, to demonstrate something. From a modern gay perspective, it’s all about genetics. Therefore, since men have a genetic, natural tendency towards adultery and polygamy, this would be acceptable according to this philosophy. From a Catholic perspective, adultery and polygamy is condemned from both a revealed law and a natural law perspective. But, in your case, you cited your own philosophical opinion without referencing Catholicism.
[1 of 2, Continued]
If you’re a Catholic and honest with yourself, you’ll find that you didn’t reference the Church out of fear and self desire. Because if you admit that the Church is correct, you’ll have to make painful changes – which is scary.
I know this because I didn’t become a true Catholic overnight either. In my past, I’ve been pro-artificial contraception and I was against the Church’s view that children are integral to marriage. My hardened views changed when my heart opened more radically to Love. And when this happened, my own selfishness became transparent.
If you read my 3rd message to you in the “Archdiocesan Paper Pushes” thread, you’ll find compelling reasons, from a Catholic perspective, that homosexual acts are…
“Michael McDermott” you are correct: legal, occupational, and social persecutions are actually just beginning. Sodomites cannot abide religion, particularly Catholicism (and all forms of Protestantism and the Jewish faith), that says that what they do — their personal identities — are sinful.
In fact, Catholic leadership has pretty much already caved in. It was no accident that Francis — “who am I to judge” had real meaning — was elected Pope. Homosexuals have not only dominated the Church, but, in true effect, now largely control Christ’s Bride.
The real battle will be with an awakened laity. We are the ones left to fight (just think of clerical free-loaders like C. Dolan) and to suffer. Not only will society despise…
(Continued) “us, but the Church will turn on its own.
Weren’t the Pharisees involved in the planning to murder Jesus, the One who came to fulfill their destiny with God? Look to our own Vatican and American clergy to do the same thing. The fight is already happening, and, increasingly, it is being led, institutionally, by Evangelical Christians. The true power, however, is with Catholic and Christian bloggers. Perhaps, after all, this is why Vatican II came to be — to free the laity (as God knew that the seeds leading to the destruction of the institutional Church were already deeply planted). Church Militant, indeed.
” Homosexuals have not only dominated the Church, but, in true effect, now largely control Christ’s Bride.” Oh thanks for letting me know I’m in charge. My parish is having a discussion on possible mass time changes. I’ll be sure to remind our pastor that I’m in charge and the 11:00 stays no matter what!
C&H look Fr. Robert Robbins at Our Savior Parish in NYC and the complete havoc and destruction he has and is causing. This so called Priest is destroying that parish Financially, Spiritually and Artistically and yes is openly gay and has moved into his residence his organ player boyfriend after firing the previous one. Cdl. will do nothing about this situation despite the howls of protest from the parishioners. So please do not tell me gays are not in tacit control of the Church.
I googled him. All the articles were about an architectural controversy. Nothing about being gay, boyfriend etc.
In fact, homosexuals have infiltrated the Church and brought ruin. The present bunch in the Vatican seem intent on leading the institution toward perdition. It remains to be seen if Francis hears the Holy Ghost, or refuses to do so.
Hopefully, you do not partake of any sacraments, except for confession (assuming that you are a sexually active homosexual). You are in charge of caring for, or damaging, your Immortal Soul. Good luck on making that choice.
Ahhhh SC: A gentleman shouldn’t “assume” anything like that about a lady. However, If you want to put a camera in my bedroom to get official confirmation, please give me time to replace my ratty old flanell nightgown.
….a lady doesn’t post the particulars of sexual preference in a public forum, C&H. A particular subject is being discussed. And when a woman takes a position either for or against, it is playing false to pretend offense after the fact when discussion ensues.
Gentleman thankfully I have never been accused of that…
For example – Subsidized Student Lunch programs for the poor may be seen as a crowbar to pry open the Catholic School to the ‘Gill Gang’ – who spend more money trashing the Church than Helping the Poor
SEE
The Court and the Classroom: How the Supreme Court’s Redefinition of Marriage Affects Religious Schools
https://www.frc.org/events/the-court-and-the-classroom-how-the-supreme-courts-redefinition-of-marriage-affects-religious-schools
The recent ruling by the U.S. Supreme Court which redefines marriage for legal purposes is a landmark decision that has wide-ranging implications for religious liberty. Join Family Research Council as we explore how this decision will particularly affect religious schools and affiliated…
Why do Holy Redeemer Catholic parish, in San Francisco, and other parishes have support groups for LGBT groups? These parishes are encouraging and supporting homosexuality and making it seem proper, honorable and blessed by the Church. How many of these parishes have Courage groups? Courage is the group that tries to support people who are trying to resist the sin of homosexuality.
The gay people have decided the Church is mistaken in saying they must all live like celibates.
…it is Christ who says that those not married should be celibate, Michael. And Our Lord clearly defines marriages as between one man and one woman.
The Church is merely reiterating that which She has received.
So nobody is telling anyone that they ‘must’ live as celibates, but rather clearly relating the stipulations for sexual relations as pertains to every man and woman.
There are NO support groups for LGBT people at MHR.
…perhaps because homosexual sex is not viewed as either a temptation or a sin perhaps. Much like one wouldn’t find an alcoholics support group at the local bar.
What are you talking about Ann Malley? LGBT people are not alcoholics, they are PEOPLE who need support like everyone else. Why would you deny support to LGBT people? Your own perverted notion of what Church is prohibits you from seeing people as people. That is a sad state of affairs.
The support for LGBT people within the Catholic Church would be the support to live chaste lives and not indulge in homosexual sexual relations. Otherwise it’s just being an accessory.
That said, what are you talking about? Alcoholics are PEOPLE, too. I daresay that some alcoholics are likely suffering from SSA, too. Are you so wrapped in your own perversion that you negate the real crosses that others carry?
Ann,
I think YFC was saying that there are no pro-gay support groups for LGBT at MHR.
Sarah says: “Why do Holy Redeemer Catholic parish, in San Francisco, and other parishes have support groups for LGBT groups?” August 1, 2015 at 8:49 pm
According to the pastor, it doesn’t:
https://www.catholic-sf.org/ns.php?newsid=22&id=63714
“We don’t see ourselves in just that way,” said Father Link. Members of the parish community don’t identify or organize themselves based on their sexual orientation and the parish does not have even a ministry defined or directed specifically to the LGBT community. “
“Why do Holy Redeemer Catholic parish, in San Francisco, and other parishes have support groups for LGBT groups?” Well, Sarah, it’s probably because most of the Catholics who attend Mass at Most Redeemer are gay men and lesbian women.
C&H:
“I can see their point and feel bad for those who don’t want to provide services for a same sex wedding,”
I’m glad you have some sense of the cooperation with evil argument we are making. Unfortunately, the monied elite of the LGBT activists has no such understanding since they care not one whit for religion: rightly I call them the “minions of Satan.”
Father… Do we also all the person who did this out of “sincerely held religious convictions” a minion of Satan? https://www.haaretz.com/beta/1.669161
Yes, a murderer is doing the will of Satan. It doesn’t matter if he is an ultra-Orthodox Jew or not. The commandments of God bind everyone: ultra-Orthodox, Catholic, homosexual, atheist, Buddhist. Jesus wasn’t too impressed with rationalizations in the era of His First Coming and there is no evidence that He is overly impressed with our perverse era either. Thou Shalt Not Murder, Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery (and any other sexual sin), they all apply.
Father … Yishai Schlissel, stabbed those people because within his tiny subset of his faith the people at the parade were doing the will of Satan and murder was justified. The little 16 year old girl who died wasn’t even gay. Don’t we as Catholics have an obligation to speak out against the blind hatred that leads someone to do such a horrible thing? I invite you to look at some of the most exterme posts here on CCD.
C & H, some of your arguments are ridiculous. No decent Christian would go into a Jewish bakery and force someone there to put “Jesus Christ is King” on a cake and force them to take it to a church. nor would any decent Jew go into a Christian owned bakery and force the owner to put “Jesus Christ is not Divine” on a cake and take it to a synagogue. By the same principal, neither should any decent person go into a bakery and force the owner to put a figure of two men or two women on a wedding cake and take it to a reception. People who do such things are just troublemakers who are trying to force other people to do something against their consciences. Believe me that snake will come back to bite them.
Correction: By the same “principle”, not “principal”.
Anne … Let me assure you that IF I were to ever fall in love with a woman again and IF we were to become engaged, I would never sue a baker for not wanting our business, but simply to go to her competition. That having been said where do we draw the line on excusing people from following state and federal public accomodation laws because they claim they are motivated by religious convictions? I’ve thrown this question out a couple of times in this conversation and I don’t believe anyone has answered it.
Sarah – like the ‘Gilbert Gaystapo’ in Colorado – these fanatic depraved activists seek to make any crack in the foundation wider and deeper – that better to pump in the Toxins they want to poison the Church and its wise moral teachings with.
Think of Homo-Nazi party founder and Homosex Terrorist ‘SA’ Storm Trooper leader Ernst Rohm and his boy toy protege Hitler – taking over a Synagog to host ‘occult’ rituals and Spartan Pederast parties.
There is No Reverence for the Church or its Teachings – just a chance to use the place as a toilet for their Conga Line of Buggery to Snake Through – and they do so love to degrade and denigrate anyone who fails to Pander to such Perversions.
This is the same goal for taking over Church Schools & Programs:
SEE
Boy Scouts formalizes policy allowing open Homosexualist In Charge of Boys
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/its-official-boy-scouts-formalizes-policy-allowing-openly-gay-leaders?
The National Catholic Committee on Scouting offered a guarded response to the July 27 resolution, noting,
“it appears that the resolution respects the needs of Catholic-chartered organizations in the right to choose leaders whose character and conduct are consistent with those of Catholic teaching.”
However, “we express strong concern about the practical implications of this resolution, especially for our young people in Scouting, and whether the term ‘sexual orientation’ will…
“Why do Holy Redeemer Catholic parish, in San Francisco, and other parishes have support groups for LGBT groups?” Well, Sarah, thanks for asking.
Catholic people have already voted, with their conscience, and have decided the Vatican is wrong in saying that (a) gay people must live without love, (b) married people cannot use contraception, (c) engaged people cannot live together.
Catholic people are voting with their lifestyles to do their best, and no longer turn to Rome for answers about everything.
Michael, it is not the Vatican that says these things, but Christ. If Catholics are ‘voting’ with their lifestyles, then they are voting to embrace sin and reject Christ.
Attempting to paint these issues as political and purely disciplinary is just as misleading as saying it is because of ‘Rome’. Any reference to conscience is the conscious decision to reject the Faith. That is not Catholic and, at the very least, should be owned as much.
Conscience is not, as Ann Malley puts it, a decision to reject the Faith. Conscience is the law written by God himself onto the hearts of human beings telling him to do this and shun that. Catholic moral teaching REQUIRES that the faithful follow their conscience above all else.
Conscience, YFC, contrary to what you advocate is something that can be properly and/or improperly formed. That is why your posts that seek to malform Catholic consciences, especially that of youth, are wholly abhorrent and inconsistent with what the Catholic Church teaches and what constitutes true love.
You promote a lie of love, a counterfeit. It is the natural law that is written into the human heart, YFC. So that he who does that which he should not, often has a sense already that what he is about is wrong. That is why your attempting to counter nature and the revealed law of God is doubly odious.
Ann Malley – someone posted here recently a sentiment that I agree with. There WILL be a special place in hell for those who look love in the face and claim that it is counterfeit. Only the devil can be at work with people whose hearts are so hard that they cannot see the lifetime of love and commitment shared by many of these couples. THIS is why attitudes are changing so rapidly, Ann. When people see love, they are attracted to it. Fortunately, people who reject love are losing this battle. And no amount of redefining conscience will permit you to reject the absolute requirement for a person to follow theirs.
It would seem you just showed, YFC, that the moniker you use is ‘manned’ by multiple individuals pushing a sodomite agenda. For it was YFC who stated that, “… there WILL be a special place in hell…” Thanks for the confirmation.
As to your explanation of what it means to recognize ‘love’, what Catholics and I daresay a good may Americans are noticing is the wholesale indoctrination of the young to believe that there is no need for self mastery. That is your ‘lie of love’, YFC. And in the end the Immaculate Heart will triumph, no matter how much you darken the intellects of those who should see. For whereas you pit yourself against ‘me’ in your posts, you are attempting to overthrow Christ and you will never win at that…
YFC: if Ann Malley is correct that you’ve been knowingly citing the CCC out of context [regarding conscious], what does this say about your integrity and, by extension, your views on homosexual acts?
Ann Malley is not correct & nothing is taken out of context. I have no problems with my integrity. I quoted and cited exactly where it came from.
Moreover, we are required to follow our consciences even if it is malformed. There is no part of CCC that says that if your conscience says one thing, and you read something different, even if it comes from a Church Document, and blindly follow that document. Besides which, Ann Malley debates the entirety of many Church documents, not the least of which is VII & Canon Law.
You advocate the intentional malformation of the conscience, YFC, which is not in accord with the catechism. You revel in the abuse of language to imply that which is repellent before God is somehow required by the catechism. (A modern day Parisee)
That is evil and wrong, YFC. It has nothing whatever to do with my view on the subject, but rather with what you post here on a regular basis to the detriment of those poor souls suffering the cross of SSA. Sadly, in this post VII era, that is much of what goes on in what should be Catholic parishes. God have mercy on you and on us all!
I UNDERSTAND the language, Ann, unlike you, who claims that there is ambiguity at every turn, and that is how you justify leaving the Church entirely. I understand what is in my conscience. You cannot, because you cannot see into my heart. Yet you pride yourself into thinking you can.
YFC: Here is what the CCC says about conscience. I’ve heavily edited non-essential words for brevity.
CCC 1790 – A human being must always obey the judgment of his conscience. Yet it can happen that moral conscience makes erroneous judgments.
CCC 1791 – This ignorance can often be imputed to personal responsibility. This is the case when a man takes little trouble to find out what is true and good, or when conscience is by degrees almost blinded through the habit of committing sin. In such cases, THE PERSON IS CULPABLE for the evil he commits.
CCC 1793 – If the [person] is not responsible for his erroneous judgment, the evil can not be imputed to him. One must therefore WORK TO CORRECT the errors of conscience.
Of course, you UNDERSTAND sophistry and compromise, YFC. Especially that which helps you to negate God’s law and the Spirit of the Law while seemingly sticking to the letter. That is precisely why you quote conscience as a means to negate the Faith only to deride the use of conscience by those who would denounce compromise to keep the Faith.
And nobody needs to read your heart in this matter for you post regularly what you think… or are you (that is all of you who use the YFC moniker) just being paid to promote an anti-Catholic agenda?
YFC,
I responded to your comments regarding conscience and your Genesis quote, but they are located at the bottom of this page.
Not if they have an erroneous conscience. After all a psychopath has no problem with his conscience when he kills the innocent. Some so-called “doctors” have no problem with their conscience encouraging women to have abortions so they can get their hands on the baby parts to sell. Some, not all, homosexuals have no problem having sex with others men even though they know that part of the body was not constructed for that kind of behavior and tears it up and helps destroy the other, often much younger, person’s body. Do you need any more examples of an erroneous conscience; I can give you plenty.
YFC, according to the CCC, your statement that a person must follow his conscience above all else has an important caveat: If one’s conscience becomes deformed through personal fault, one WILL BE held accountable for his deformed conscience. Therefore, the wise will always consult the Church regarding moral issues for which one may have a deformed conscience.
YFC knows this, Steve. He just regularly attempts to paint sodomy as love. His adherence to the CCC is just for the purpose of convenience, convenience aided in large part by those within the Church who soft-pedal the very doctrine they are tasked by Christ to uphold.
Where in CCC or any where else does it give permission for a person to disobey one’s own conscience? Where does it give an exception to CCC 1790, your own quote” A person must always follow their own conscience”. I don’t see an “Except when…” anywhere in that sentence. Do you?
In addition, one must take all of Scripture and Church teaching into account when forming one’s conscience, one cannot pick and choose. One cannot say to a gay person, for example, that when God says “It is not good that Man should be alone”, which forms the basis for all subsequent teaching on family life, that God crossed his fingers when it came to gay people. Was God wrong?
“Catholic people are voting with their lifestyles to do their best, and no longer turn to Rome for answers about everything.” Too bad for them that the Judge they will face at the end of their lives will not be a feckless pope in Rome, but the Giver of the Commandments and the Moral Law they so carelessly trespass. God cares not one whit for human rationalizations as the Gospels demonstrate over and over.
Kyrie eleison!
“FrMichael” — thank you. Unfortunately, it is tragic that other priests do not say this.
It is also tragic that the Pope makes bishops of people, like B. Barron, who do not much believe in going to Hell.
Finally, what about the awful cardinals, like Cardinal Dolan, who can write a juvenile opinion piece about Donald Trump, but gets tongue-tied over commenting on the Sodomite-loving Supreme Court’s decision on homosexual marriage, or of the Planned Parenthood outrage. Thanks much for Fr. Guarzino, and his courage (and for your own, Father).
St. Christopher,
Did Bishop Barrons actually say that no one is going to hell or did he do some sort of theological quibble? I heard someone say this recently and I had a hard time believing it.
“Steve Seitz” he said the following: “We may reasonably hope that all people will be saved.” You should find it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmsa0…layer_embedded.
Michael Voris — ChurchMilitant.com — also has a number of things on this heresy. B. Barron is pretty much incorporating Hans von Balthasar on this theological point. It seems that Jesus, who often spoke of the dangers of going to Hell, was simply wrong, as was the Church for over 2,000 years. Lucky that Hans von B. finally got it right!!
I think the big problem here, is that many do not accept Christ, and do not desire to follow Him, exactly as He says! Chastity is a MUST for all unmarried Christians, and married Christians must abide by the marriage teachings of Christ! Very strict! Marriage of one man and one woman, and having a family, is the very cornerstone of civilization, and of the Church! One must be obedient to Christ, lead a good life, develop excellent character, trust God, and prepare for Heaven! One must never seek to live by the LIES, DECEPTIONS, and SINS of the flesh! One must seek only Christ, and abide with Him, in faith and obedience– and He will give Eternal Life, exactly as He promised — a life of pure love, joy, and happiness, with God, in…
I will continue, with my above post. One must trust Christ, and follow Him obediently! If you do so– Christ will deliver all as He promised, many centuries ago– a life of TOTAL FULFILLMENT for us, of pure love, joy, peace, and happiness, with God, in Heaven! Exactly as He promised! You can TRUST Him! Do exactly as He says– and He WILL NOT FAIL YOU!! Try it, and see! That is the missing point, in the recent downfall (since the 1960’s) of our civilization: FAITH!! GIVE CHRIST A TRY!!
I knew of a well-liked young man from my hometown, quite good-looking, with a nice personality. Lots of girls his age liked him. He came from a nice home, with good parents. They regularly attended a nice Protestant church, lived by Christian morals, and ran a successful family business. In his late thirties, after many years of leading a good life– this young man suddenly stated that he was gay! Next, he tragically stopped going to church, “married” a gay man– and soon, both were DEAD, from AIDS!! All the love, help, support, and prayers that everyone tried to give him, to keep him on the right track in life– did not work! What is it worth– to gain a worldly life of sin, and to lose your soul??
A tragic story, except you are short on facts. He could not have gotten married. In the days when AIDS killed people, there was no such thing as marriage for two men. We have chenged that, thankfully, and now a well-liked young man from your hometown, quite good-looking and with a nice personality can meet and marry a man and live quite a long life together. In fact, it has now been shown that people HIV positive people often live longer than their HIV negative counterparts because they have more frequent medical visits and pay more attention to their health. How does living a life of love fit into your idea of losing your soul?
“…How does living a life of love fit into your idea of losing your soul?”
You mistake that Church laws are just someone’s ‘idea’. If that were so, no worries. But it s the dignity and authority of the idea giver that lends the idea weight and makes it law. That is why God’s precepts of marriage are the law…. law played out in nature, too.
That is also why you muddy the waters of love when you erroneously assert that it is just a matter of subjectivity with regard to the salvation of souls. IOW: Your attempt to subvert what it is to truly love to the detriment of souls is against God’s idea.
Ann Malley, forgive me for saying so, but your post makes no logical sense.
By the dignity and authority of the “idea giver”, by whom I assume you meant the Creator, who chose to create people in his own image and likeness and yes sometimes gay, he instilled in them his own dignity which no person can remove. The inherent dignity that the Creator instilled, therefore, in those gay children, instill also in them by their very nature the ability to be saved by the sacrifice of the Cross. This is not a matter of subjectivity, but of clear objective evidence. Recognize love when it happens, my friend, and that is half the battle.
YFC– If you truly love someone– you do NOT commit sinful acts of sexual perversion on them! God help us! That’s HORRIBLE!
No you don’t, “Your Fellow Catholic”. There remains serious debate whether people are born or made homosexual.
In any event, even if homosexuality is established at birth (or inception), each and every homosexual sexual act is voluntary (yes, unless there is rape, or martian offense). The Church cannot be made to accept that which it cannot accept: sex outside of man-woman marriage is a mortal sin; and sodomy is a high offense, being one of the four sins that cry to Heaven for vengence.
Homosexuals simply cannot sex and remain in faithful communion with the Catholic Church. Get over it.
The film is a devastating hit-piece on the CC (and hard to defend, given the putatively criminal negligence of persons like “Fr.” Paul Shanley/others, and Card. Law’s flaccid response), but it is rife with half-truths that will be come full-truths (such as “degenerate clergy”; “They knew, and they let it happen!” and “6% [of Catholic priests are pedophiles],” cf. in the trailer). see:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwdCIpbTN5g
It is best to know the onslaught is coming, to eventually criminalize the institution of the Roman Catholic Church.
God does not contradict Himself, YFC, but He does ask that we carry myriad crosses for love of Him. That is why your promotion that homosexual sexual relations are something inherently dignified in the sight of God is an aberration.
Leading young people to believe erroneously that they are defined by their temptations is evil, too. For it is the image and likeness of God that lends human beings their dignity and that lies in the intellect and will.
Choosing the ‘lie of love’ that you promote will not save souls.
Your Fellow Catholic– Subjective ideas of “love,” are not substantial enough, to fit the standards of a true Marriage, in the eyes of God! For example– a legally-married man can say to someone, that he wants to “marry” someone else’s wife, because he is “in love” with her, too! She could “marry” TWO men, at the same time! Or– he “loves” a ten-year-old girl, and wants to “marry” her. Or, he “loves” his mother, his sister, or his daughter, and wants to “marry” one of them! Or– he wants to be “married” to both a man and a woman, because he is “in love” with both! No– subjective ides of “love,” are not good enough!! Sorry!
Because it is anathema to God.
There will be a special place in hell for people who do everything they can to deny love when it stares themselves in the face.
So judgmental YFC…you living the mirror world of sodomy where mortal sin is considered love.
YFC, if you love your neighbor, you will NOT want him or her to go to Hell – because of unrepentant Mortal Sins. If you love your neighbor you will not be a source of temptation.
Lust is not love. Lust is a capital sin.
SACRED SCRIPTURE regarding homosexual acts:
Gen 19:1-29; Rom 1:24-27; 1 Cor 6:9-10; 1 Tim 1:10; Jude 1:7.
DOCTRINE of the FAITH: CCC – 2357, 2358, 2359, & 2396.
Yes, there will be a special pace in Hell for those who mislead the youth on purpose into misconstruing love to mean ignoring what God asks and not being merciful enough to speak the Truth that He died to relay.
What nonsense is this, “Your Fellow Catholic”? There is a special place in Hell for unrepentant sexual deviants, including sodomites, that seems pretty clear.
And there will be a place in Hell, most likely, for those that distort the truth in advance political, or personal, beliefs or vices. Your Nancy Drew Wah-Wah Religion may seem important to the Anglicans, but not to Catholics. Anal love is not love in the Catholic sense, which incorporates charity. a term not often heard in the Francis Era. Charity demands truth, not French-Kissing.
Christopher,
Thanks for the youtube video of Fr. Barrons opinion on Hell. Theologically speaking, it was interesting: Pastorally speaking, it was irresponsible. Let’s hope that his care of souls improves as bishop.
Your Fellow Catholic– don’t be deceived! The AIDS virus kills people daily! Yes, the young man who slipped and fell tragically, into a life of sin– went to a state where he and his boyfriend could “marry,” and they did it secretly– all their family, friends, and their church, tried so hard to give them love, help, support, and prayers– to stop this INSANE sex perversion “baloney” they had gotten into, a horrific sin! — and go back to God, and to the church, leading CHASTE lives, for love of God! If you love someone– be UNSELFISH!! SACRIFICE!! For love of God, Who deserves your respect!! Avoid sin, and avoid harm to others!
The next salvo, be prepared for it, being launched against “Catholic, evangelical and Mormon leaders” as “among our greatest adversaries”—but esp. Catholic Church will be the shock-“documentary”, “Spotlight”, about the Boston Globe team that exposed the Boston Arch pedophilia scandal in the 1990’s, set to be released Nov. 5th, right before Christmas. Of course. It has already been featured at the Venice and Toronto Film Festivals. Of course.
“Spotlight” stars stridently pro-abortion “catholic” Mark Ruffalo, alongside quasi-catholic Michael Keaton, in a film put together by Steve Golin and Michael Sugar of the powerful production organization Anonymous Content (Golin is an Obama supporter/contributor).
The film is a devastating hit-piece on the CC (and hard to defend, given the putatively criminal negligence of persons like “Fr.” Paul Shanley/others, and Card. Law’s flaccid response), but it is rife with half-truths that will be come full-truths (such as “degenerate clergy”; “They knew, and they let it happen!” and “6% [of Catholic priests are pedophiles],” cf. in the trailer). see:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwdCIpbTN5g
It is best to know the onslaught is coming, to eventually criminalize the institution of the Roman Catholic Church.
And people wonder, Steve, why the Vatican has asked for a meeting with the Media Moguls to discuss how they are treating the Church. There is no doubt that Cardinal Law should have been stripped of his office and put in jail for his actions, but the Church didn’t let that happen. They “promoted” him to Rome, which is the Italian way of demoting someone and getting them off center-stage. I suspect that the movie folks don’t understand the Church and its teachings and evaluates it bases only on the standards of modern Western culture.
All this talk of issues such as birth control, same-sex marriage, etc., coming from Christ is nonsense.
Jesus never spoke about such things: instead, it was the MEN who ran the Roman Catholic Church coming up with countless rules and regulations over the years, just like the Pharisees of old (“you bind up heavy loads, hard for people to carry”), and then deifying their own man-made laws.
He never spoke of bestiality or incest either sweetie but we know its wrong…. sorry you lose …
Canisius, you call me ‘sweetie.’ Really? I hope your wife is not reading your silly posts.
“We know it is wrong…” Well, good for you.
Many other people know it is NOT wrong, and they are acting accordingly, having gay weddings, adopting children, etc.
As we well know, many people also know that the Catholic Church is wrong about a whole bunch of things, so even good Catholics are forming their conscience without turning to Daddy alone for guidance.
no you are wrong not Christ and His Church….go back to self worship….
Bernadette, the daddy you are rejecting is Abba, your Eternal Father. As to Catholics rejecting Christ’s teaching and echoing a non servium, that too has happened before and will happen again. It’s called free will – not the transformation of that which is a grave offense against God into something holy and good.
If anybody is the Pharisee here it is the progressive who attempts to pretend there is no forgiveness for sinners because there is no sin. So while you may let folks into the building, you deny them the Faith and the grace that saves. That is evil.
You have not read the Bible in entirety.
Regarding homosexual acts, and going to Hell: Gen 19:1-29;
Rom 1:24-27; 1 Cor 6:9-10; 1 Tim 1:10; Jude 1:7
Homosexual marriage includes the practice of sodomy.
The Catholic Church did not exist when Genesis was written.
God said to ‘go forth and multiply’ in the Old Testament prior to existence of the Catholic Church.
Jesus said “many” will not be saved; “few” will be saved.
Bernadette,
Homosexual acts were strongly condemned in ancient Judaism. Within this context, when Jesus condemns immorality, this includes homosexual acts.
Evidence?
Was Slavery so condemned? Was the obnoxious treatment of women condoned? Please, if you are going to provide historical evidence to support bigoted ideas, please provide evidence and be prepared to defend those ideas in current practice.
Do you still want slavery?
Anon, when I referenced immorality, I was actually referring to sexual immorality. However, with that said, I think your logic is a bit muddled. Ancient Judaism condemned homosexuality. So Jesus, when he condemned sexual immorality, would have certainly included homosexual acts on this list.
Ancient Judaism, on the other hand, did NOT condemn the inferior status of women nor indentured servitude. So, when Jesus condemned immorality, these acts would not automatically be on the list of the condemned. And, in keeping with this logic, he did elevate the status of women.
Steve …Ancient Judaism, and today’s Orthodox Judaism, condem the eating of unkosher food. Jesus certainly kept kosher. Does that mean Jesus condemned us eating “tref?”
C&H:
When I referred to immorality, I was actually referring to sexual immorality. With that said, I don’t think Jesus was referring to the Jewish dietary laws which only bound Jews but to conduct that binds everyone, Gentiles and Jews.
Bernadette, it is a big responsibility, to learn right from wrong, to have a good moral conscience, and to obediently follow Christ! It may be hard, but God will give us strength, in all our trials! When we finally pass through all our trials successfully, then we will be ready for God, in Heaven! But until then, God will keep on sending us our crosses, our trials, so we may purify, strengthen, and be prepared for Him! This temporary, earthly life, shall soon pass away– and we all are here, to train for the Eternal Life, in Heaven! When young, I used to hear good priests say to parishioners, “When the going gets tough– the tough get going!” With God, in prayer– all things are possible!
“Lumen gentium” 20
“This sacred Council teaches that the Bishops, from divine
institution, have taken the place of the Apostles, as the pastors of the
Church: he who hears them, hears Christ; he who spurns them, spurns Christ,
and Him who sent Christ”.
YFC: The words speak for themselves and the paragraphs in the CCC are linked together. But, if you wish, I’ll paraphrase for you.
CCC 1790 states that man must follow his conscience but that conscience can become deformed and result in flawed judgments.
CCC 1791 states that if the conscience became deformed due to the individual’s fault, then the person will be held responsible for their evil acts DESPITE the fact that they were following their conscience (i.e. there are people who will go to Hell for following their conscience). But CCC 1792 gives hope.
[1 of 3, Continued]
CCC 1792 states that if a conscience becomes deformed and is not due to the one’s fault, he will not be held responsible for his evil acts. However, one must seek to reform his conscience.
To reform one’s conscience, of course, a person needs to first know right from wrong. One needs to consult with the Church to learn this. The second thing is to practice refraining from the evil conduct. This often is linked to practicing the virtues.
[2 of 3, Continued]
In regard to your Genesis quote about God not wanting man to be alone. Please note that God made a woman for the man: not another man. Also note that romantic/erotic love is not a necessary requirement for marriage and marriages tend to be more stable when couples enter into marriage without this component. Psychologically speaking, romantic/erotic love adds a source of trouble into many marriages. Also, psychologically speaking, I don’t think of you as a homosexual as much as a heterosexual with a sex drive that has become diverted. The true mark of marriage is not erotic love but agape love (charity). God has created you to marry the opposite sex. As in Genesis, “be fruitful and multiply.”
[3 of 3, End]
Yes, and God made heaven and earth in 6 days. The LESSON to be learned from the story does not depend upon the particulars, my friend.
Scriptures do not examine every possible outcome in life. That is why God instilled in the heart of every human being a conscience, so that when they find themselves afar from shore, they don’t need to know where to paddle.
Until then, Christ begs us to let out your nets and allow us to be fishers of men. Not some men, not straight men, but ALL men. And it is not good that man should me alone. That is why He created Helpmates.
YFC: You’re correct that one of the awesome gifts of the conscience is that, if properly formed, it informs us what to do in areas “far ashore” (i.e. in moral gray areas and fine points that would require degrees in moral theology to discern). But, in your case, your conscience has run afoul in areas that are “on-shore”.
The immorality of homosexual acts has been condemned by the Church. You’re not talking about some esoteric gray area regarding a specific case of end-of-life care. Rather, you’re talking about a frontal assault on moral truth.
Regarding the casting of nets, this applies to all men. Why do you think that I take the time to write to you? So that you and others might be saved.
…attempting to insinuate that God created helpmates with the intent that they should be homosexual sexual partners is very much like the serpent in Eden parsing words to encourage Eve to fall. The LESSON to be learned is to adhere to what we clearly know. Not venture willfully against what God Himself has outlined by attempting to use scripture to paint Him as the liar or word smythe. Shame on you, YFC. You would fish with poisoned/barbed nets and call it Christ’s command.
YFC and his unreal sanctimony in the name of defending sodomy