‘This wonderful, now Catholic, cathedral’

Posted Monday, February 06, 2012 4:24 AM By cstreip
I am happy to see this news. I hope it will lead to peace and healing for all concerned, both the people of the Diocese of Orange, and those of Rev. Schuller’s ministry. I look forward to visiting when the cathedral is ready for Catholic liturgy.

Posted Monday, February 06, 2012 5:56 AM By St. Christopher
What does Bishop Brown mean when he says, “Our goal is to preserve an already cherished religious landmark?” By whom? For what purpose? Let’s see, could it be that the good Bishop will make only very minor changes to a protestant structure in order to satisfy the pesky Church? Maybe a tabernacle here, some stations of the cross there? Kneelers? Why no — that would be disrespectful of this wonderful architecture. And then, the USCCB does not want too much kneeling anyway at Mass. See how the liberal crazies in the Church can take anything and try to use it to turn the Catholic Church away from its liturgical practices, if not theology? How long will it be before Bishop Brown will want to ban kneelers throughout the diocese, in keeping with the rich tradition of the Crystal Cathedral? The building my be “cherished” but not by Catholics.

Posted Monday, February 06, 2012 7:52 AM By FourMarks
A spectacularly ugly, sterile monument to protestant televangelism and Modernism. The apotheosis of the worst ideas and practices of the worst schools of ugly 20th century architecture, Bauhaus, van der Rohe, etc. Bp Brown’s successor would be well-advised to sell it to Chapman college if they are still interested, or any interested party, and get on with the lengthy, arduous but worthy project of designing and building a truly Catholic, truly beautiful cathedral to the greater glory of God, and to serve and edify the Catholic faithful of Orange for generations to come..

Posted Monday, February 06, 2012 8:00 AM By Ygnacia
“Under the terms of the agreement, Crystal Cathedral Ministries may continue to use the church and some other campus structures for a period of up to three years.” For what?? Instruction for ‘missionaries’ headed for Catholic countries in Central and South America?

Posted Monday, February 06, 2012 8:29 AM By robkphd
This is wonderful news! I am glad this has gone through.

Posted Monday, February 06, 2012 8:30 AM By Joan
A bizarre building, which I certainly wouldn’t call beautiful. It is as cold like the ice castle in the Narnia series. Give me a cathedral with stained glass windows, beautiful artwork, tall pillars, altars with statues of our superheros (the saints) and a gentle mixture of shadows and light. This structure already has a dated look, very unlike the time-tested cathedrals of Europe.

Posted Monday, February 06, 2012 8:47 AM By Georgia
“St. Robert H. Schuller” Cathedral—-a monument to Materialasm and Humanism.

Posted Monday, February 06, 2012 8:54 AM By Patrick
The Crystal Cathedral Ministries went bankrupted, having many, many people in the past. How will a small group fill that massive, ugly structure? I wouldn’t go there if they paid me.

Posted Monday, February 06, 2012 9:13 AM By Sarah
The new “cathedral” is an ultra modern, Protestant monstrosity. It is not Catholic in design. Bishop Brown and the other decision makers have decreed that this is what the people in the pews (those who pay the bills) shall have. The pew-bill-payers can communicate their feelings to Bishop Brown by never attending Mass here and not contributing any money to support it. The Bishop and the diocesan decision makers can have this “cherished religious landmark” to themselves.

Posted Monday, February 06, 2012 9:18 AM By Rose Lindy
What did we expect from bp Brown?

Posted Monday, February 06, 2012 9:35 AM By Carole Tokaruk
We have just completed a new “cathedral ” here in Saskatoon,Sk. Canada and I am not at all impressed with it as are others. Now they are asking even more money to pay for what they call stained glass windows. Okay , maybe they are “stained ” glass but they are definitely not of a religious nature. The point being that this “cathedral” is ugly both inside and out for a Catholic Church. We are moving away from traditional and making our churches more protestant looking. (Thank goodness not everywhere)

Posted Monday, February 06, 2012 10:03 AM By Fr. J
Just wait till the bills for upkeep, heating, and cooling come in. They will only go up. We used to build beautiful cathedrals. Now we buy ugly ones.

Posted Monday, February 06, 2012 10:20 AM By Catherine
St. Christopher and FourMarks and Ygnacia, God Bless each of you! Your posts truly signify the chief marks of our Catholic Church: One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic. The chief marks of this “spectacularly ugly, sterile monument to protestant televangelism and Modernism” are the painful stripe marks left on the hearts of many Catholics.

Posted Monday, February 06, 2012 10:56 AM By marotto
PRAISE THE LORD!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted Monday, February 06, 2012 10:58 AM By Shirley
How can many Catholic churches in the USA, be closing, because lack of money and they turn around and buy this ugly building.What is up with that?

Posted Monday, February 06, 2012 11:16 AM By JEANNE IN TAMPA
Just love these Catholic perfectionists…. all big mouth…. and no real plan to solve what they criticize… Shut up

Posted Monday, February 06, 2012 11:19 AM By Bárbara Milmo
I haven t´ been there, but on Internet it looks beautiful. I would like so much that protestants and catholics would become One in Christ in the only Church founded by Him: the Catholic Church. God bless all christians.

Posted Monday, February 06, 2012 11:20 AM By Greg
St. Christopher and others–in a recent story in the Diocese of Orange’s newspaper, Monsignor Holguin specifically states that the current seating in the Crystal Cathedral will be replaced by pews with kneelers.

Posted Monday, February 06, 2012 11:33 AM By John F. Maguire
Anybody who has been inside the Crystal Cathedral quickly realizes the well-nigh physical impossibility of replacing this Cathedral’s immense amphitheatric seating structure by wrenching its bolted seats off the entirety of what is truly an immense floor-space, in order to substitute kneelers, which are already inadvisable in this venue on acoustic grounds. The Vatican knew all this when it granted its nihil obstat judgment — its “nothing stands in the way” judgment — to the Diocese of Orange. Let’s then assume an attitude of Christian docility to the Vatican’s decision. Need I say, in the final analysis, it is the TRADITIONAL LATIN MASS that affords this new place of Catholic worship the best solution to the liturgico-aesthetic problems posed by Garden Grove’s manifestly post-Latinate church. I would venture to recommend the mid-day Latin Mass at St. John the Baptist church on Baker Street in nearby Costa Mesa as a liturgical model for the introduction of the traditional Latin Mass within the ambit and ambiance of the Diocese of Orange’s new Cathedral.

Posted Monday, February 06, 2012 11:51 AM By Scott
Lighten up. Beautiful it is and shall be.

Posted Monday, February 06, 2012 11:53 AM By Maryanne Leonard
I certainly understand the wailing about this cathedral and have a heck of a time being glad we own it, despite its being a very practical purchase. On the other hand, I absolutely don’t understand the support that the surfing Madonna is getting from some of our posters. Both of these creations are equally unworthy in aesthetic terms, and one of them is downright blasphemous.

Posted Monday, February 06, 2012 12:42 PM By MacDonald
Would you like this better? “A church built entirely of snow and ice had its grand opening in the Bavarian village of Mitterfirmiansreut Wednesday night. Villagers built the church, which is made up of more than 49,000 cubic feet of snow, to commemorate the construction of a similar snow church in the village 100 years ago.” From ABC News on December 29. [P.S. Bavaria is the Holy Father’s homeland.]

Posted Monday, February 06, 2012 2:12 PM By Marilyn
Why are some peiople so negative? I am a Catholic and I listened to Rev. Schuller for years. I am sorry for their loss but happy for the Catholic Community who were blessed ot get it..

Posted Monday, February 06, 2012 2:59 PM By B
….glad, that will stay and serve Christian&Catholics …rather then having to convert to mosque, right ?…so, why all negativities ?…..the place will be House of God, will be blessed ..so, please brothers &sisters be glad in it !!!

Posted Monday, February 06, 2012 3:16 PM By Wheels
Marilyn, I agree. Why so negative. This is a chance to build a bridge with our protestant brothers and sisters. Thank you Bishop Brown. Some protestants might feel more comfortable and more open to the fullness of the Truth in this Church because of the architecture.

Posted Monday, February 06, 2012 3:28 PM By John F. Maguire
The fact that Philip Johnson’s ‘modernist’ architecture is modernist in the art-historical sense, does not mean that the Crystal Cathedral is irreformably modernist in the heresiological sense, that is, in the specific sense according to which the Catholic Church condemns (theological) modermism, to wit: modernism understood as a pan-idealist distortion of the dogmatic structure of the Faith.

Posted Monday, February 06, 2012 3:43 PM By John F. Maguire
The fact that Philip Johnson’s ‘modernist’ architecture is modernist in the art-historical sense, does not mean that the Crystal Cathedral is irreformably modernist in the heresiological sense, that is, in the specific sense according to which the Catholic Church condemns (theological) modermism, to wit: modernism understood as a pan-idealist distortion of the dogmatic structure of the Faith.

Posted Monday, February 06, 2012 3:58 PM By Paul
I fully agree with Marilyn, why are people so negative. I also listened to Rev. Robert Schuller for years. I cant wait to see it completely transformed and watch the first Mass and dedication.

Posted Monday, February 06, 2012 4:21 PM By Tracy
Did anyone read Schuller’s comments to the L.A Times. He wanted the “Chrystal Cathedral” to go to the Catholic Church. He said that he always wants it to be a place of worship and that the Catholic Church being the “Mother Church” is not going anywhere. He also said that it was never really a cathedral before but now it will be. There is currently a statue of Bishop Fulton Sheen on the property as Rev. Schuller was inspired by him. Schuller may not be Catholic, but he certainly isn’t anti-Catholic. But some of you posting here are almost hate filled toward the Protestants and Schuller. I get it, that the structure of this church is not traditional, but I believe that even before renovation, it is still more traditional than lets say the newly constructed cathedral in Los Angeles, not to mention others.

Posted Monday, February 06, 2012 5:10 PM By SLind
Tsk! Tsk! The deed is done. Now is it not advisable that Catholics take a more “Christian” attitude towards those with whom they disagree?

Posted Monday, February 06, 2012 5:12 PM By Life Lady
Okay, so it WAS a protestant church, but it has now been acquired by the Church, so, I will reserve my opinion and wait and see what they do with it. For all anyone knows, they will have time to beautify the outside and re-structure and re-configure the inside. Frankly, I can’t wait to see what they do with it. It would be nice to see something else there, all that glass and the angles, i hope they make something truly beautifully CATHOLIC out of it. Wait and see, we may all be pleasantly surprised. I am eternally an optimist.

Posted Monday, February 06, 2012 5:12 PM By Catholic Joe
If we practice true ecumenism, we can help guide the remaining Schuller flock to the Catholic faith. It’s an opportunity–not a mishap.

Posted Monday, February 06, 2012 5:17 PM By Kenneth M. Fisher
Barbara Milrno, 11:19 AM, False ecumenism will never bring about true conversions! They hardly ever filled the Cathedral they had, what are they going to do when this building looks so empty. God bless, yours in Their Hearts, Kenneth M. Fisher

Posted Monday, February 06, 2012 5:52 PM By A Lady
So many negative comments. The interior of the cathedral will be basically gutted. There will be pews WITH KNEELERS. The sanctuary will have an altar, a crucifix, a bishop’s chair, a baptismal font and most importantly a Tabernacle. This will be a holy space. Purchasing this property instead of building from scratch was the financially responsible thing to do as the purchase price coupled with the cost of the renovations will be less than half of what it would have been otherwise. Stained glass windows are beautiful but not required to make a space holy. The location of the new cathedral makes it MUCH more accessible to the populace — especially the poor who may not have the luxury of owning a car. There are many bus routes that stop right at the corner of the cathedral As my dad (may he rest in peace) often said, some of the holiest Masses he ever attended were said on the hood of a Jeep. I believe the time for negativity has long since passed.

Posted Monday, February 06, 2012 6:12 PM By Jim
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. In my humble opinion, it might appear nice as a downtown office building, but as a place of worship, it does not inspire me at all. I would choose to worship in a place that reminds of me of the sacredness of God.

Posted Monday, February 06, 2012 6:36 PM By Blithe Spirit
I wonder what they’re going to do with the distinct ram’s head clearly shown in the veined marble directly underneath the pulpit?

Posted Monday, February 06, 2012 6:36 PM By Catherine Alexander
Some Catholics seem to worship Gothic architecture more than they do our Lord. Solomon’s Temple would not meet their standards. I like a traditional building, too, but some of this is a matter of personal taste and should be recognized as such. If you don’t care for the design, don’t go there. I hope the diocese will do a good job of adapting the interior, and I pray that one day all Christians will worship there as one body. Now THAT would be beautiful.

Posted Monday, February 06, 2012 7:50 PM By Tom Stulc
As a young man my protestant girl friend extolled the virtues of Robert Schuler. She presented me the protestant book “possibility thinking. Now look at the rot and stench of the Chrystal cathedral and the Schuler gang. With catholic churches closing everywhere who needs an insulting monument to materialism and protestant vain glory The stench of rotting fish floating down stream is nauseous. Vote with your feet and pocketbooks Catholics. Withdraw your financial and personal support from the diocese rot that bought that insult to our crucified Lord. “You shall judge a tree by the fruit that is bares” Just look at the Obama health care mess our leftist socialist Catholic Bishops made getting in bed with dictatorial Marxist socialism, homosexuals and diabolically corrupt baby killing politicians like Pelosi and the Kennedys, The stench of fornication is all over them. I rest my case.

Posted Monday, February 06, 2012 9:28 PM By Geoffrey
While I cannot fathom how the interior can be renovated for Catholic liturgy, I rejoice in this great victory for the Church! The “Crystal Cathedral” is famous the world over for being a Protestant place of worship, and it now belongs to the Holy Catholic Church of Rome. Laudetur Iesus Christus!

Posted Monday, February 06, 2012 9:34 PM By P.J. in CT
God’s ways are mysterious. Perhaps he is allowing the Crystal Cathedral to become identified as a Catholic place of worship in order to entice curious or spiritually hungry Protestants to experience what true liturgy is all about.

Posted Monday, February 06, 2012 9:53 PM By JLS
Hey, Mac, check this out. My grand uncles built the world’s last standing Lutheran/Catholic church which is located in Nebraska (they were Lutherans and Masons). There was an altar on one end and a table at the other. The pews were reversed quickly by flipping them over. So the Catholics would hold Mass, and the Lutherans their service … but of course not at the same time. Today the building is preserved as a museum. There was a similar church in Switzerland but it burned down a couple decades ago.

Posted Monday, February 06, 2012 10:05 PM By JLS
Maryanne, apparently you have been unsuccessful in comprehending my posts on the “surfing Madonna” topic. Didn’t you read the descriptions of BVM from Her Litany? These images are profoundly abstract, unlike those of Fatima and Guadalupe. Read Apocalypse, the section describing a building composed of an array of gemstones … the “surfing” mosaic is far closer to this in the more profound sense than the plain mono-symbolic alleged crystal cathedral. If you continue to see the mosaic BVM as not good, then you need to find some way to articulate your finding so as to convey it to others.

Posted Monday, February 06, 2012 10:10 PM By Citizen
How is it the church could afford to purchase this property, while at the same time claiming too poor to keep open vital school and church services in poorer economically stricken areas?..where the people protested their church and school closures?..in established communities? chuches and schools which stood as hubs for families and entire cohesive social structures? ( schools? children? ) Did ” operations” need yet another headquarters at the expense of the real needs of real people? Its own members?

Posted Monday, February 06, 2012 10:11 PM By JLS
Maryanne, apparently you have been unsuccessful in comprehending my posts on the “surfing Madonna” topic. Didn’t you read the descriptions of BVM from Her Litany? These images are profoundly abstract, unlike those of Fatima and Guadalupe. Read Apocalypse, the section describing a building composed of an array of gemstones … the “surfing” mosaic is far closer to this in the more profound sense than the plain mono-symbolic alleged crystal cathedral. If you continue to see the mosaic BVM as not good, then you need to find some way to articulate your finding so as to convey it to others. BTW, MacD, that amount of ice would form an ice cube 37 feet on each side, not however quite enough to cool Hell down by much though.

Posted Monday, February 06, 2012 10:13 PM By JLS
Scott, if they were to lighten it up as you suggest, the electric bill would go through the roof. And then the next rain would fill it up like a fishbowl, which symbolically would make sense.

Posted Monday, February 06, 2012 10:23 PM By JLS
JEANNE IN TAMPA, the plan, as voiced by the Pope, is for the bishops to become holy. Many readers are trying to figure out how this bishop’s purchase of the CC moves him towards that goal.

Posted Tuesday, February 07, 2012 5:09 AM By Ric Baumgardner
Alot of neg. critiz………….did anyone ever think MAYBE the Lord led the Bishop to chose to buy it……………………..

Posted Tuesday, February 07, 2012 5:41 AM By JLS
Ric B, there is no clear track record of the Bishop following the lead of the Lord, so why presume it is the case here?

Posted Tuesday, February 07, 2012 6:00 AM By Bob One
I would like someone to specifically define what a “catholic church” looks like. When we plant churches in new areas, we sometimes rent school gyms and fill them to capacity before we build a new building. It is still a church on Sunday mornings, is it not? Does a catholic church have to have flying buttresses? Must a catholic church look like the old buildings in Europe that stand empty on Sunday morning? The church is the people. I have been in churches all over the country, and not one of them looks like another. They range from gothic to super modern, but they all hold the people of God and they all have an altar and the priest leads the congregation in the worship of God. I believe that what goes on in the church is much more important than the design of the building. A mass said in this new cathedral will be just as valid as one said on the front of a jeep in the war zones of the world.

Posted Tuesday, February 07, 2012 7:11 AM By Frank
Christ will truly be PRESENT there…that’s what is important and if He is living there who has any right to criticize….He is the Almighty he even loved a cave for his birth and a cross to save us on……so shut up ..you may find yourself not allowed in the truly crystal cathederal IN HEAVEN.

Posted Tuesday, February 07, 2012 8:16 AM By Pops
Thank you FourMarks. This architecture of this building has its roots in radical modernism. These bauhasianesque buildings were built with a break in continuity of church architecture in mind. These so called “church’s” and “cathedral’s” were designed to replace the glory of God with the glorification of man. Devoid of signs of faith, they are replaced, as with the sterile Los Angeles “Cathedral” with a pipe organ! It is time to close the door on churches that are built to subvert and destroy faith.

Posted Tuesday, February 07, 2012 9:11 AM By Pops
Thank you FourMarks. This architecture of this building has its roots in radical modernism. These bauhasianesque buildings were built with a break in continuity of church architecture in mind. These so called “church’s” and “cathedral’s” were designed to replace the glory of God with the glorification of man. Devoid of signs of faith, they are replaced, as with the sterile Los Angeles “Cathedral” with a pipe organ! It is time to close the door on churches that are built to subvert and destroy faith.

Posted Tuesday, February 07, 2012 9:33 AM By Kay Thomas
I am a Catholic who goes to a Latin Rite Mass in the Extraordinary Form ( Tridentine). My church builfing is Neo Gothic, and a historical parish . Saying that, I am happy this building is now to be used to further the message of hope, healing, and the Sacred Tradition of the Roman Catholic Church. That is a good thing As you go through life, my friend, Whatever be your goal Keep you eye upon the donut And not upon the hole! ( Simple, but true! Dominus Vobiscum y’all! :) Keep you eye

Posted Tuesday, February 07, 2012 10:14 AM By John F. Maguire
In reply to Catherine Alexander: Your point about the presence of a Gothic fixation — a fixation that functions as an impediment to clear thinking in the domain of architecture — is well taken. In this same connection, the statue of Fulton J. Sheen the Crystal Cathedral’s foremost campus building puts me in mind of a 1948 _Journal_ entry by Sheen to the effect that in the missionary field (Sheen had in mind the missionary field in China) Catholics should not remain rigidly attached to their customary architecturural sensibilities, well-formed though these sensibilities are — not where the context does not require such attachment. See Kathleen L. Riley, _Fulton J. Sheen: An American Catholic Response to the Twentieth Century_ (New York: St. Paul/Alba House, 2004), p. 244.

Posted Tuesday, February 07, 2012 1:18 PM By Kenneth M. Fisher
Once again. They could hardly fill the Cathedral the Diocese of Orange already has, they have closed down the oldest Catholic School in the Diocese, and now they will eventually either close down or sell the nearby Catholic Church to pay for this. Where is the real need for this? Bishop Brown is more of an “Ecumenic” than Catholic! God bless, yours in Their Hearts, Kenneth M. Fisher God bless, yours in Their Hearts, Kenneth M. Fisher

Posted Tuesday, February 07, 2012 2:14 PM By John F. Maguire
Mr. Fisher: Had Fulton J. Sheen not entered into an *ecumenic* friendship with Crystal Cathedral founder Robert Schuller and had Robert Schuller not been in *ecumenic* concord (albeit not perfect accord) with Catholic Christianity, the transfer of the Crystal Cathedral — a remarkable event in itself — would not have taken place. As I wrote on this website at CCD December 12: 3.14 PM, “That the Crystal Cathedral should remain a church within Christendom was the ardent wish of its founing pastor, the Reverend Robert H. Schuller — and the Bishop of the Diocese of Orange, Tod D. Brown, concurred in Reverend Schuller’s judgment.”

Posted Tuesday, February 07, 2012 3:21 PM By Catherine
Greg, Your comment about Monsignor Holquin’s telling the Diocese of Orange newspaper that the current seating will be replaced by pews and kneelers is not very comforting in light of the fact that on July 07, 2008, Monsignor Holquin donated $250.00 to the Obama for America Campaign. When it was announced to the world that Pope Benedict XVI was the new Pope, Monsignor Holquin gave an interview with the Orange County Register. He actually told the reporter that Benedict XVI would not have been his first choice. Now we know why. A picture is worth a thousand words. ‘Google ‘Brown Hobnobs at El Adobe Lake Forest Patch’ -This is a photo of the promoter of same sex marriage, terrible sex education and abortion right supporter Governor Jerry Brown seated right next to Monsignor Holquin. Jesus dined with the sinners to save souls. We understand this and we are grateful for this. Jesus, however, did not donate $$$ to campaign for and promote more evil and more sin. Unless there is great humility and reparation for terrible compromises, if Obama gets re-elected and gets his way, those pews and kneelers won’t be used there either. Through the complicity of many the Church is being purified and it will be a smaller Church and a Holier Church. Read Our Lady of Akita – Churches will be sacked. How pleasing it would be to God if the Diocese of Orange, Ca. orchestrated a Diocesan Rosary Crusade to ask Our Lord and Our Lady to have mercy on us and help us all for loosing our way. Almighty God the Father always listens to the Prodical son.

Posted Tuesday, February 07, 2012 4:25 PM By JLS
Bob One, more and more of your posts show that you prefer the way things are, no matter how they are. It is called “brittle”, or stiff necked, since you cannot tolerate the slightest change. Lukewarm water is like that also, in that any change changes it into either hot or cold which are the only two states that the Lord can use.

Posted Tuesday, February 07, 2012 8:35 PM By Candace
I have a personal reason for being happy about acquiring the Chrystal Cathedral. My fiance helped build the Cathedral, and then later became a Catholic. A co-worker and friend of his on the project returned to his Catholic faith about the same time. You could say that the Cathedral was built by Catholic hands! I just wanted to share that so people will know that God was at work on the Cathedral long before this day. For those of you who are long time or cradle Catholics, you may be taking for granted the beauty of the mass, and how it alone inspires worshippers where ever they are. I see the mass anew through the eyes of my newly-converted fiance, and I know he would be thrilled to attend mass anywhere, and especially where he helped build another house of worship for our merciful lord and savior.

Posted Tuesday, February 07, 2012 10:11 PM By Deborah
My goodness – it is not like the Catholic Church through the ages has never taken non-Catholic edifices for the honor and glory of Our Lord, Jesus Christ. The Pantheon definitely comes to mind and it was pagan, not even Christian. Have you who are critisizing a bishop, a prince of the Church, appointed by the Holy Father, not seen the Pantheon in Rome? Shame on you! Yes, our Holy Church has sinners within, but I can’t cast the first stone, can you?

Posted Tuesday, February 07, 2012 11:55 PM By elleblue
I’ve been in this building in the sixties and it felt like an auditorium. I’m trying to envision how anyone is going to Catholic it up so that it feels somewhere you can pray and receive the sacraments.

Posted Wednesday, February 08, 2012 4:29 AM By wood-mary
I am catholic and have listen to dr.robert schuller for many eayrs with pleasure.I think it is not very christian to have such a negative opinion.There is only one God-which is love.When you sent out love you will receive it in return.

Posted Wednesday, February 08, 2012 12:11 PM By Steve Phoenix
Well said, Tracy. And at least it has an utterly fantastic real pipe organ. That is a real sound, not techno-reverb (electronic organs) which took over the American Catholic Church even b4 Vatican 2.

Posted Wednesday, February 08, 2012 1:59 PM By Tracy
Candace, thank you for sharing your beautiful story. Back in the 90’s I had a strong sense (which made no sense at the time) that the Chrystal Cathedral would one day become a Catholic church. Then in early 2000 I took a couple of seminarian’s from the diocese of Denver on a site seeing tour which included the Chrystal Cathedral. This was the first and only time that I had seen this place in person. I mentioned to them, that I felt that one day this place would become a Catholic church at which I got a puzzled response as to why I thought this. Of course, there was nothing that I could give them that could support my “feelings”. All I can say now is something that I have always known, God sure does work in mysterious ways!

Posted Wednesday, February 08, 2012 2:32 PM By JLS
Schuller was all emotional feel good religion … although I always felt nauseated when watching him. There is a difference between that and Catholicism.

Posted Wednesday, February 08, 2012 2:34 PM By JLS
Looking further into the future of this building, I’m wondering how it would do as a mosque.

Posted Wednesday, February 08, 2012 3:42 PM By John F. Maguire
JLS: Your summary judgment against Robert Schuller is unjust. The agreement between the Reverend Schuller and Bishop Tod Brown expressly envisioned the retention of the Garden Grove Cathedral as a church WITHIN Christendom, indeed as an episcopal SEE within Holy Church. ~ If on occasion an excessive sentimentalism entered into the Reverend Schuller’s own (essentially sermonic) ministry, nonetheless it is at once hyperbolic and incongruous to call that sentimentalism “feel good religion” — worse, in a thread in which “feeling good” about Gothic/Neo-gothic church architecture got absolutized at the expense of Bishop Tod Brown’s venturesome but wise decision to help Reverend Schuller achieve his desire that the Crystal Cathedral remain a church within Christendom. That the Vatican approved the Schuller/Brown plan, need I say, was entirely proper and expectable.

Posted Wednesday, February 08, 2012 6:24 PM By JLS
Maguire, how can a feeling be just or unjust? Soft soaping is what he did.

Posted Thursday, February 09, 2012 8:06 AM By MacDonald
@ JLS — I also watched Robert Schuller a couple of times and found him a “nice man,” but hardly a preacher of the Gospel. “The power of positive thinking” is what I remember of his show, but this is not the cross, not the sacrifice of Jesus, not what Holy Mother Church has preached for two millenia. I’m glad the building will now be used for Catholics, who are growing in numbers, especially in Southern California. Go, team!

Posted Thursday, February 09, 2012 8:58 AM By Pops
Thank you FourMarks. This architecture of this building has its roots in radical modernism. These bauhasianesque buildings were built with a break in continuity of church architecture in mind. These so called “church’s” and “cathedral’s” were designed to replace the glory of God with the glorification of man. Devoid of signs of faith, they are replaced, as with the sterile Los Angeles “Cathedral” with a pipe organ! It is time to close the door on churches that are built to subvert and destroy faith.

Posted Thursday, February 09, 2012 10:40 AM By John F. Maguire
“How can a feeling be just or unjust?” JLS, there is a reciprocal relationship between (a) affect disorders and (b) the rendering of unjust judgments, just as in general there is a reciprocal relationship between (c) a disordered will and (d) the refusal to render just judgments; or at the least the failure to exercise due care in rendering such judgments.

Posted Thursday, February 09, 2012 3:42 PM By John F. Maguire
In the present thread, the ‘modernist’/’post-modernist’ architecture of the late Philip Johnson has been mentioned in passing. For the record, however, the co-architect on the Crystal Cathedral project, which was completed in 1980, was John H. Burgee. I know of no study that has ventured to analyze the collaborative work of Johnson and Burgee in terms of these two architects’ influence one upon the other. What we know is that their collaboration at the firm _Johnson/Burgee Architects_ was ingredient to the design of Garden Grove’s Crystal Cathedral. In this same context, worthy of note is the fact that back in 1956 John Burgee graduated from the School of Architecture at the University of Notre Dame. He served on the University of Notre Dame’s Board of Trustees from 1988 to 2006, when he was named trustee emeritus. His tenure on the University of Notre Dame’s School of Architecture’s Advisory Council dates from 1982. Today the University of Notre Dame’s School of Architecture sponsors its annual Burgee Lectures. These Lectures provide a venue for accomplished architects, building engineers, and art historians to discuss publicly architecture as an intricate and challenging field of artful endeavor. ~ Did cardiac-catholic hands have a part in building the Crystal Cathedral? Yes. See Candace’s post, supra at Feb. 7: 8.35 PM. Did an architect annealed in Notre Dame’s School of Architecture help design the Crystal Cathedral? Yes — John Burgee. ~ Is all this to the good? Yes it is.

Posted Thursday, February 09, 2012 4:19 PM By cmarrelli
Buying the Crystal Cathedral was another setback for traditional Catholicism. Why didn’t the Bishop connect with the laity before making such a crucial decision; I remember when he reached out to the parishes for suggestions. In 2004 we were asked for suggestions; at our churches we were given a blank sheet of paper with the heading that read: I recommend that the Diocese:___.Why not before making the decision to buy the Crystal Cathedral? My reaction? Why in God’s name would Bishop Brown even think of buying it? What good are cost savings if you don’t get the genuine article? I believe the majority of Catholics would not have chosen the Crystal Cathedral as their central house of worship. We should want our Cathedral to be a child of our own Catholic faith, influenced and configured within the bounds of our own vast, unique heritage shaped by 2000 years of tradition. Charles N. Marrelli, Writers for Life

Posted Thursday, February 09, 2012 8:50 PM By John F. Maguire
In reply to Charles N. Marelli: I would venture that if we study the early centuries of the Catholic heritage as “shaped by 2000 years of tradition” (your professed standard of sacred architecture), we’ll see that early Catholic churches turn out often to have been renovations of pagan temples or adaptations of secular Roman buildings, e.g., the government buildings called basilicas. So no, Catholics in these early centuries had no reason to insist upon the impossible — they did not insist that their churches be free from any and all aesthetico-architectural prior-influence by pagan art traditions. Likewise, there is no need today to insist that the episcopal See of the Diocese of Orange be free from any and all aesthetico-architectural prior-influence by ‘modernist’/’post-modernist’ art traditions. All of which is why our best response this great boon to the Diocese of Orange is to assume an attitude of Christian docility to the Vatican’s endorsement of the Schuller/Brown plan for Garden Grove’s Crystal Cathedral. Indeed, from within this perspective, the Crystal Cathedral IS the genuine article, however much it stands in need of liturgical renovation so better to monstrate (show forth in all its splendor) the traditional Latin Mass, which, as we know, is the Mass of all Ages and, by right, the Mass of all consecrated churches.

Posted Friday, February 10, 2012 6:34 PM By JLS
If the Church can renew the face of the earth, certainly it can renew a pagan temple or protestant church or mosque. That is not the essential question, but rather what is the point of the Bishop buying it since there is no need for it? Kenneth Fisher has pointed out A. that the Bishop has closed schools due to lack of funding, and B. that the present cathedral is not crowded. Is the point of the scores of millions of dollars from parishioners (and indirectly from the government via the Church being a funnel of govt funds thus freeing up its collections take) to build himself a memorial tomb, with his name engraved in neon lighting?

Posted Friday, February 10, 2012 6:37 PM By JLS
Maguire, now you’ve fled the topic and alleged that I’m talking about something that I am not talking about. I said “feelings” ie emotions … but now you are talking about “affect”, and likely trying to fool people who do not know the difference. Or perhaps you yourself do not know the difference. A feeling or emotion is a physical response, not a mental response as an affect is. You need to get your affects straight.

Posted Saturday, February 11, 2012 2:23 PM By John F. Maguire
“Fled the topic”? Did I? ~ The word “affect” does not connote feelings or emotions? Is that true? JLS, no possible reply can be proffered, I venture, without a dictionary in hand. To quote the nearest one within my reach: AFFECTIVITY: (1) influenced by or resulting from the emotions; (2) concerned with or arising from feelings or emotions; emotional. ~ On the topic of affectivity, space still allows me to add an annotation: However one assesses his phenomenological method, there is always the engaging master-student of the affective life, Dietrich von Hildebrand. I am thinking of his work in its entirety but especially his book _The Heart: An Analysis of Human and Divine Affectivity_ (South Bend, Indiana: St. Augustine’s Press, 2007).

Posted Saturday, February 11, 2012 2:47 PM By JLS
Exactly, Maguire, affect is influenced by emotions. Affect is what you are harping about; whereas, I said emotions rather not their possible affects. An emotion aka feeling is neither just nor unjust, Maguire.

Posted Sunday, February 12, 2012 3:18 PM By John F. Maguire
In reply to JLS: The thesis is that (a) lack of proper affect — excessive anger would be but one example — is reciprocally related to (b) acts of injustice. In different but insightful ways, both Dietrich von Hildebrand and Thomas Aquinas have investigated this thesis in a systematic way.

Posted Sunday, February 12, 2012 4:12 PM By JLS
So, Maguire, you’re referring to anyone who voted for Obama, out of an affective disorder of excessive anger. And, yes, you are correct in that both von Hildebrand and St Aquinas were prolife and would never vote for the likes of Obama or other national level democrats since they have made their party platform prohibitive of any prolife candidates.