Last year I published a column arguing that the Reformation was over. Indeed, that it had been over for 25 years. It was time for our Protestant friends to come home.
My column expressed a pious hope based on an ecumenical breakthrough at the turn of the millennium that — as Fr. Raymond de Souza noted — has not been matched in the quarter-century since. Of course, I didn’t expect the unity of Western Christianity to be restored any time soon. But given the friendly state of Catholic-Protestant relations in 2024, it was worth a try.
What a difference a year makes. Or perhaps it is not the year that made the difference. Perhaps I am just more aware of certain trends in the online world than I was a year ago. Either way, some recent developments in the Protestant world, vis a vis its relationship to Catholicism, should be taken into consideration on Reformation Day 2025.
A good place to start is with the rise of Allie Beth Stuckey. She’s “The Christian [that is, Evangelical] Podcaster Rallying a New Generation of Conservative Women” according to a recent profile in the Wall Street Journal. I applaud Stuckey’s growing popularity. Here’s why:
Among the ‘Christian stuff’ that Stuckey believes the Bible deems true: There are only two genders, determined at conception, and marriage is between a man and a woman. She also believes abortion is murder and in vitro fertilization, surrogate parenthood and hormonal birth control are wrong, including in marriage.
This may seem obvious to faithful Catholics but there are two reasons why it’s not obvious that Stuckey would say it. First, large chunks of Evangelicalism seem to be on the same path to theological liberalism already traveled by their Mainline forebears. (You can read an account of it from within Evangelicalism here.) Second, even pro-life and pro-traditional marriage Evangelicals are not normally with us on IVF, surrogacy and birth control. For all these reasons, the growing popularity of Allie Beth Stuckey — who stands with us on issues where Evangelicals historically did and even on issues where they didn’t — can only be good news to me.
But not to everyone. When I shared the Journal’s article on Stuckey, I got pushback. Catholics had seen her critiques of our faith and were shocked by them. The recent developments I mentioned above, of which I was unaware a year ago, help explain why.
First, we’re not accustomed to Protestant allies pushing back so vigorously against Catholicism. It’s a recent thing. Or, rather, a return to an old thing. There was a period when big name Evangelicals didn’t do it so much. Now they do it again, a lot. Allie Beth Stuckey, Wesley Huff, Gavin Ortlund and others.
Take it as a backhanded compliment. While Catholicism continues to bleed numbers overall, in elite and online circles many Protestants are converting to Catholicism (or Orthodoxy). This has induced panic among some Protestants. There are books being published to combat it (see here, here, and here) and articles. Thus the uptick in online polemics against Catholicism.
Second, well, it’s in the name of the group founded by Karl Keating: “Catholic Answers.” That is, when I was a kid, Catholics didn’t have, or know, the answers to all the challenges to their faith coming at them from Sola Scriptura Protestants. Now they do. So Protestants had to adjust to hearing actual answers. You see their lackluster response in, for instance, Stuckey’s debate with Catholic convert Lila Rose. Beginning at about the 25—or 26-minute mark in this video, it is Allie for the prosecution and Lila on the hot seat. Lila has an answer for every charge hurled against the Church and Stuckey’s response is to simply not accept those answers. Nevertheless, those answers are readily available now in a way that was less true before Keating re-started the modern Catholic apologetics movement.
Keating, in fact, had an interesting response to my sharing of the article about Stuckey, in which he wrote:
By the way, I don’t have recent information on which way has more traffic, from Catholic to Protestant or from Protestant to Catholic, but my intuition is that the Protestant-to-Catholic way now outnumbers its opposite.
That wasn’t the case in the 1980s, when, in the U.S. alone, about 100,000 Catholics left each year to become Protestant Fundamentalists. (Others left for ‘regular’ Protestantism.) I saw that movement change greatly over the next two decades. Most Catholics who leave the Church today drift into Nothingism rather than into Protestantism.
I think Keating is right. The possibility that Protestant-to-Catholic conversions “now outnumber its opposite” had not occurred to me until Keating wrote it because I work regularly with Evangelicals here in Connecticut, many of whom are former Catholics. But the ex-Catholics are mostly over a certain age, many with similar stories to tell about having found Jesus in the Catholic charismatic movement in the 1970s or ‘80s, followed by their exit from the Church. I know almost no Protestants under a certain age with that sort of background. But I do know an increasing number of young Catholics who used to be Protestant.
Which brings me full circle to last year’s Reformation Day column. I invite our Protestant friends, whom I dearly love, to come home. It looks like some of them already are.
From Peter Wolfgang in Catholic Culture







His intuition is wrong. For every person who enters the Catholic Church, more than six cradle Catholics leave. Look around at Mass. I bet you’ll see about 80% grey hair. Generations younger than the Boomers have left the church en masse.
All I know is at the annual parish confirmation Mass I see dozens of teenagers and their families whom I’ve never seen at Mass before, and I don’t ever see them again.
I’ve been a lector and Eucharistic minister for over 50 years and happily surprised at the newcomers to our 8:00 Sunday Mass at a parish in north San Mateo County. The new folks are of all ages and include a few families with young kids. I don’t know how it happened or how long it will continue, buts it’s real. I’m also seeing lots more small children around my neighborhood (where I’ve lived since 1961) than I recall before COVID. Not sure if that’s a related phenomenon.
In my parish, our priest mandates that the kids preparing for Confirmation actually show up at Mass, the kids hand Father a slip which he date stamps and returns, after checking them off his own list. I applaud him for this.
There is a controversy in our Church, because after a famous Armenian Catholic Archbishop and martyr was recently canonized as a Saint, the Prime Minister of Armenia, Nikol Pashinyan, who belongs to the Armenian Apostolic Church– an Orthodox church in Armenia that is not in communion with Rome– received Holy Communion at the Canonization Mass– even though he is not Catholic. Another big recent controversy at the Vatican is their new Muslim Prayer Room for Muslim visitors. Very strange. As for the young Protestant evangelicals who are Catholic converts, and the anti-Catholic evangelicals– and other religious news items, mentioned in the above artucle– I am not familiar with these news items.
There shouldn’t be controversy over the first case you mention. The Code of Canon Law for the Latin Church in 844.3 indicates:
“Catholic ministers administer the sacraments of penance, Eucharist, and anointing of the sick licitly to members of Eastern Churches which do not have full communion with the Catholic Church if they seek such on their own accord and are properly disposed.”
I hope that helps explain it and reduces needless controversy.
Thanks for your explanation. I appreciate you citing the part of our Canon Law that pertains to this situation. I had thought that Communion was only for members in good standing, properly prepared, of churches in communion with Rome. I also was told that Orthodox churches not in communion with Rome are very prohibitive of their members receiving Communion at a Catholic Church, and are very particular about the Great Schism and their own beliefs. Your explanation is perfect, however, in this situation. Many Catholic news reporters who were complaining about this were not properly informed of Canon Law for this situation.
The entire Catholic Code of Canon Law (revised by Pope St. John Paul II) is on the Internet. People are always quoting it regarding pro abortion politicians to be correctly disciplined by their bishops, with denial of Communion, etc. Anyway, anybody can look up any information they want, regardong our Code of Canon Law, if they have questions. That’s very helpful. The entire “Catechism of the Catholic Church” is also available on the Internet. Too bad our prelates– and some popes– do not always follow Canon Law or the Catechism. Some also do not follow the Bible, on some matters– such as LGBT/Trans. issues.
Recently, an Anglican friend shared a video with me of a big funeral service of a prominent Anglican (Episcopal “High Church”) cleric. At their Communion, an Anglican cleric announced that any baptized Christian may come forward to receive Communion. Their Holy Orders and Eucharist are not valid– we have a definite Sacramental theology that is authentically from Christ — it is not “made up,” nor dependent on personal subjective beliefs, experiences, and interpretations– like the Episcopal Church and Church of England, and perhaps other Protestant churches. Ecumenism is lovely and becessary– but it can be a worry if it goes too far. In the UK, reportedly thousands of young people are very conservative in religious Faith and Morals, and are leaving the Church of England, converting to the Catholic faith– a great many love the old Tridentine Latin Mass, which is very popular there.
Many daily prayers for Pope Leo, that he may truly listen to Christ– not listen just to the needs of people. Christ needs all those “Synodal” people to stop and listen clearly to Him. A “Synodal” Church we are not. Pope Leo must be our true Petrine leader.
Each case has to be looked at individually. The Muslim prayer rug is in a special section of the Vatican Museum where ancient copies of the Koran are kept. The copies are not kept for Christians to use in worship, but as historical items. Some Muslims are allowed to pray there as a curtesy when getting historical information.
The churches called Orthodox, though in schism from the Catholic Church, have a valid Eucharist and under rare circumstances, Catholics and Orthodox members can partake of each other’s Eucharist. Special permission is needed by both sides unless there is an emergency I assume.
As far as the Anglican funeral, Catholics are not supposed to take their communion because they lost apostolic succession, and their host is not valid. A few Anglican Bishops were later ordained by a bishop of one of the Orthodox churches and that did give them Apostolic succession. They do not accept women priestesses nor so-called women bishops. Some Anglican priests, as most all of you know, have converted and become Catholic priests.
It is my understanding that the case of an Orthodox bishop ordaining a few Anglican priests — and the question of a valid Apostolic Succession— was not accepted by the Catholic Church at all. There is no validity of Anglican clergy nor their Sacraments, according to Rome. I was told that it is the Orthodox churches that are prohibitive of their members receiving Cimmunion in Catholic churches– they are very particular about that, about the Great Schism, and about their own beliefs. As for the Muslim prayer room at the Vatican Museum– it is not the best thing to promote Muslim beliefs, prayers and religious rituals, at the Vatican. It is in violation of Christianity– at the heart of the Ronan Catholic Church! The Vatican should be a great place to promote Christ and Catholicism! Muslim scholars should know that. They should go to their own mosques to pray. And it is also very dangerous, the anti-Christian Islamic extremists and terrorists!
I am sure you are familiar with Pope Leo XIII’s famous 1896 document “Apostolicae Curae,” establishing the Catholic Church’s teaching on the invalidity of Anglican irdinations and Sacraments. But you are right– there have been a few “Old Catholic” bishops who have been involved in a few Anglican ordinations, which the Catholic Church may view, conditionally, as an authentic connection to the Apostolic Line of Succession. But those cases are very rare. What a tragedy, the “Anglican Protestant Revolution” of King Henry VIII!
This is a reply to “Reply to Anne TE. I agree with your points. The Anglican bishops who were re-ordained most likely converted to those Eastern churches and were no longer Anglicans. Each Eastern Church in schism has its own bishop, and it is hard to say just what each allows. As far as taking Communion from Eastern churches that are in schism, I would not do it unless there were no Catholic churches near, and the eastern bishop or priest allowed it, which they might not do. I agree it is risky to allow the prayer rug on Vatican territory, but alright to let some Muslim clerics in the Museum on rare occasions. This is not a place where all these situations can be explained perfectly.
What I see is a real bridge between Protestant evangelicals and orthodox Catholics. In particular in the pro life movement. Most of the people end up embracing the Catholic faith because of the consistent teachings. , where in their own denomination they find it difficult to get a foothold because many pastors and denominations try to soft pedal the pro-life movement or even in many mainline and left-leaning denominations they promote abortion.
Alley Beth Stuckey is an example of someone who is moving toward the Catholic Church. The only problem as a Catholic that I have is that we don’t have the clarity from popes since John Paul Il. It seems to me that people who have clarity of what they believe can convey sincerity of mercy, but people who tried to mute that clarity, their compassion seems false. Make your yes yes in your no no everything else is from the devil. We need to continue to be clear about what is a sin and that we are called to repent.
I’ve been a daily mass goer for the past 40 years plus. When I go to daily mass now, in particular in the summer, I noticed a number of young people at mass. Also, it seems like there would be 20 people going to daily mass and now on a regular basis we’re getting around 70 people, on a really good day 100 and on a really bad day. We’re still around 50. So I would disagree with the first comment. Go God!
Wheels I agree. I find a lot of teens and small children at the masses where I attend, either of the newer masses or of the Traditional Latin mass kind. It is a mixed bag of young, middle-aged and elderly.
Why are Christmas Masses so crowded and the rest of the year there are half-empty churches? Priests should tell the Christmas ornaments in the pews that they need to get their behinds to Mass every Sunday.
The Reformation is not over, and why would anyone become Catholic today? Parish life is in the toilet, parish liturgy and music are abysmal, and homilies are snoozers. The retention rate for RCIA converts is low. Maybe people get attracted to Catholicism in theory through internet personalities and bloggers, but when they experience the dull, lived reality of the typical Catholic parish they regret their decision to convert. The convert’s honeymoon doesn’t last long.
My honeymoon has lasted 47 years
Converts vary in sincerity and interest, with all sorts of personal reasons to join a church– including the Catholic Church. Those who do not like the irreverent modern Masses will not join. Those who truly love Christ and are deeply dedicated to the Catholic Faith, are always fewer. They will find ways to join and remain in the Church, during difficult times. There are still many options available– each will find something. Some will even be moved by God to become priests. Superficial converts just “looking for a nice church to join” will perhaos not be very serious Mass-goers, regardless. Many converts are not “picky” and are satisfied. Many young converts also make good friends their own age at church, and join youth groups or pro life groups– and are happy. Those who love the old Latin Mass will join a church that offers it. There are all sorts of people in this world. Some– even Ven. Abp. Fulton J. Sheen’s father– joined the Church because his wife was Catholic– and it was the right decision for him, personally. The Sheens daily prayed the Rosary together. I know of some older Catholics who were “lapsed Catholics” for awhile– but returned to the Faith because of tragic illnesses and deaths of spouses, children, parents, or loved.ones, and they badly needed God– and peace of soul.
Good for you, Daniel!!!
Yeah, it’s well-known that RCIA baptisms don’t endure. After they are baptized at the Easter Vigil, do you see them in your parish a year or two later?
Some converts might find parishes that they prefer more, with Mass times better suited to their needs. Some might have needs for family-oriented parishes with Catholic schools for their children. And young converts may find a parish with a thriving youth program. Also, some converts may leave for college or the military— or get new jobs and move away.
Can you provide evidence of that? And, all baptisms endure. It’s one of only three sacraments that extend beyond this life into eternity.
I know many adults who have been baptized as adults and have continued to practice the faith. (I think that’s what you’re referring to.)
Some leave, some stay. And, so do those baptized as infants. God gives us free will.
Do you know everyone in your parish by sight or name? Including those who may not attend the same Mass as you do?
That’s not his wife.
What?
No, that’s not his wife. That’s what the headline says, it says who she is (not who she isn’t). She is also not Lila Rose or Karl Keating.
Nor is she Taylor Swift or Pam Bondi. Any other questions?
OK you two, stop fighting, but you are making me laugh.
Yes, Mom. But, he started it.
On Nov. 4th, the DDF at the Vatican released “Mater Populi Fidelis,” a document signed by Pope Leo, that nixes the popular titles of “Mediatrix” and “Co-Redemptrix” for Our Blessed Mother, used frequently also by many popes, including Pope St. John Paul II. DDF Prefect, Cardinal Fernandez, stated that these kinds of titles for Mary are too confusing, and require constant explanations — so it is best to use other titles for Our Lady. Cardinal Fernandez suggested using titles for Mary that appeal to her Motherhood, such as “Mother of God,” as she is the Mother of Christ. That way, no one will confuse Mary with Christ, Our Redeemer. If Cardinal Fernandez and Pope Leo want to eliminate confusion and promote clarity– they should also immediately issue documents that nullify confusing and heretical material put out by Pope Francis, such as “Fiducia Supplicans,” “Amoris Laetitia;” “Traditionis Custodes,” and all material of the misleading, corrupt “Synod on Synodality” (originally the “Synod of Bishops”). The DDF is full of hypocrisy. The Pope and DDF should also clarify and mandate adherence of prelates and priests to Canon Law– particularly on matters pertaining to denying Holy Communion to pro abortion political figures– and other evils. Clerics who refuse adherence to Canon Law should be warned — and then terminated, if they fail to comply.
I support the document’s teaching 100%. Some Mary adherents take it too far promoting her. I’m happy the voice of reason and clear, responsible teaching prevailed. If Mary “appears” to me, maybe I’ll change my mind.
Praise Jesus Christ, who is the source of all grace and mankind’s only redeemer.
It is fine to correct confusions on Mary’s many titles. But of far more importance, is for the Vatican to correct misleading, confusing, and even heretical documents and actions of Pope Francis, and his wayward bishops—- well-known to the whole world. Correct teachings and actions on Marriage and Family, abortion, the LGBT issues, etc.– are of tremendous importance. There must be no misleading, confusing, ambiguous documents and actions of the Pope and Church leaders. No more confusion, no more hypocrisy.
Some non Catholic Christians are also confused by our use of the term Mother of God. Should we trash that term too? I think not. We should just explain it to them. I had to explain to one non-Catholic relative that the term means the Mother of God the Son, not God the Father or Holy Spirit. She said, “Why didn’t you say so.”, and she seemed to agree with that. Catholics take for granted that other Catholics will know what they mean by Mother of God.
We all use terms such as “the doctor healed him” or “we saved that person from such and such” when we know God had a hand in giving us the grace and skill to do it, but we do not say so. Somethings are just understood by believers.
I am not the least bit confused on the titles Co-redemptrix and Mediatrix as many popes used and have prayer books and catechisms with those terms in them. I will still use them in private prayer. I know a teen age girl who was being taught about grace from one of the newer catechisms, and she understood that Jesus was the source of all grace when asked, but that the Virgin Mary co-operated fully with Jesus, and all other Christians co-operate in that redemption when they do something the Lord told them to do, such as baptize, catechize, feed the hungry in His name, etc. The Holy Father neither approved nor condemned the use. It is up to each individual.
Personally, I think the terms for Mary are all just fine. I don’t know why some people get so opinionated on this subject, either way. Our Blessed Mother has many beautiful graces to give to us, her dear children, through her Son, Jesus. As the famous saying goes, “Ad Jesum per Mariam.” I am very opinionated on Cardinal Fernandez serving the Church– particularly in his high post, next to the Pope– because of his pornographic books for young people that he wrote. I will never trust such a man in clerical robes, ever. Hoping he will eventually be replaced– and forgotten. Makes me sick. But anyway, I try to follow the news stories of the Vatican.
Pray for Cardinal Fernandez. I think he tried to do a Song of Solomon or Dark Night of the Soul type of poem but just ruined it because he did not have the right inspiration or talent.
Cardinal McElroy was recently diagnosed with a non-aggressive cancer, and will undergo surgery on Nov. 13th. The doctors said his prognosis for recovery is good. He needs prayers.
Yes, we should pray for Cardinal McElroy and all who are seriously ill. We don’t pray only for the like-minded or those we like. We are commanded to love and pray for all.
Wish we could have a good replacement for Rep. Nancy Pelosi, who is retiring at the end of her term. A good Christian or Catholic Pro Lifer and Republican is so badly needed! But for now, corrupt, liberal-indoctrinated Bay Area residents will no doubt try to replace Pelosi with one of their own. Hope Pelosi’s replacement will not be a pro abortion, pro-gay/trans agendas, bad Catholic!
You have to admit that there are Catholics who engage in Mary worship even though they will deny that’s what they are doing. I have had Catholics tell me that they pray to Mary instead of Jesus because prayers to Mary are more effective, they claim: Jesus always listens to his mother, they say, so if Mary asks Jesus to do something he will do it, they say. That’s Mary worship.
If they deny worshipping Mary, you should take them at their word, whatever their rationale for praying to Our Lady, for you have no window into their souls. After all, you cannot be said to worship your mom just because you do what she says.
It’s called reverence, not worship. Jesus revered his Mother, and so do we.
Okay, then Pope Francis was only showing reverence to Pachamama as a symbol of Mary, not worshipping a false god.
There are three types of worship. In the Latin church they are called “latria, dulia and hyperdulia.” In the Old Testament David knelt before the Prophet Samuel to be anointed, also the Israelites gave veneration to King David and his queen. Then there was the worship given to the Almighty, prayers and sacrifices. The Church reserves latria for God, dulia for the angels and saints and hyperdulia for the Virgin Mary, the Queen Mother who sits at Christ’s right hand in heaven.
By the way, King David did not dance before the Lord nearly naked, he took off his royal robes and put on a priestly garment, an ephod which covered him.
In older English to worship merely meant to give honor. One only adored God, the Holy Trinity; (latria); then gave special reverence to the Blessed Virgin Mary because she is mother of Christ and the Church (hyperdulia); lastly honored the angels and the saints by asking for their intercession (dulia). In the older catechisms and the Traditional Latin Mass, the Lord Jesus is called adorable, which does not mean “cute” but worthy of adoration. British use “your worship” for certain judges. We use “your honor”. That certainly does not mean that we adore them.
A lot of prayers are just people asking their divine butlers or maids to do something for them.
We don’t know whether prayer works. If you think about it, all the time people spend in hopful prayer could be better put to use doing productive things if God would just grant the prayer requests without requiring the prayers. Time spent praying is time that could be spend on other things. God’s way seems very inefficient.
Think about AI: AI would anticipate your request or need and grant it. Shouldn’t God be better than AI?
Don’t get involved with AI. It is not healthy. Use your own common sense– and talk to only real human beings. If you have a question about religion, go see your priest and talk to him. Why not make an appointment today with your priest– and ask him your questions about prayer? Also, please read what Christ said about prayer in the Bible. You need to establish a close relationship with God as a practicing Catholic, in a good prayer life. Your priest can help you with this.
AI is a useful tool that produces amazing, fast, quality results. There’s nothing intrinsically unhealthy about AI. It’s a tool.
AI is not a “tool” for prayer. You must develop a relationship with the Living God. AI should be very limited in its usage. It has proven to be a very destructive “tool” in the hands of millions of young people.
There’s one annoying lady at church I try to avoid getting stuck in conversations with. She is always going on and on about Garabandal and “the warning” that she thinks Mary said is coming. I would bet a lot of money that she’ll die before any of it happens. Garabandal was a fraud.
The trouble with some Mary promoters is they promote false apparitions and they show a very spiritually unhealthy interest in apparitions. They want to be in on the secrets, and they think knowing about apparitions gives them an edge over other Catholics. They are like Mary Gnostics, except they don’t know truth, they know fabrications. That’s the danger of Mary devotion.
Lay people can be real goodballs when it comes to religion! I have seen misguided people try to tell others that there is no formally established dogma of the Trinity in the Bible — so some Charismatic Catholic Christians and Pentecostals do not believe in the Blessed Trinity. And there are always goofballs advertising religious events with “quacks” who assure you of miracles and special prophecies of Jesus or Mary. Never listen to laymen. Always get good religious training from the Catholic Church– and stick to that. Ask a good priest if you have questions.
Medjugorje was a total fraud. You really have to be careful about claims about Mary. I have friends who claimed to have brought back gold rosarys from Medjugorje. I think the church might be better off without all the Mary appeared here or there stuff.
Cardinal Victor Fernandez, aka “Tucho”, stated that the title “Co-Redemptrix” for Mary is not appropriate and should be avoided.
The same Cardinal Tucho wrote “Heal me With Your Mouth – The Art of Kissing”.
There needs to be some ess-kicking in the Vatican.
I volunteer.
No priest would ever in this world accept such a terrible and wrongful statement. No, all kinds of people pray and have many needs and concerns each day. A priest often collects prayer requests and prays and offers Masses for many suffering people. He will also make rounds at local hospitals and pray with patients and their families.Your parish nay have special prayers, Novenas, Rosaries and Masses for people in need. Our Lady and all of the Saints are happy to help with intercessory prayers for your needs. And sometimes, people are blessed with beautiful miracles– at Lourdes, or just anywhere! Prayer is a great gift.
My comment of Nov. 6th at 8:59pm was supposed to be entitled “Reply to what prayer tends to be.”