The following comes from an Oct. 4 email from Citizens for a Pro-Life Society
The use of graphic images of abortion victims in pro-life work has in more recent decades become a point of conflict and debate within the pro-life movement itself, especially the public display of such images.
Your CPLS director, as most of you know, believes very strongly that photos of abortion victims play a vital role in the efforts of the right-to-life movement to establish respect for the lives of the unborn and abolish the injustice of abortion.
Indeed, I have taken hundreds of these photos myself—of babies that we actually retrieved from dumpsters and trash bins over these many years. A link to a website dedicated to this photography is at the end of this memo.
This article “Graphic Images—An Apologia” was published in the September 2013 print edition of the New Oxford Review– and is now available online– The link to the whole article is below.
Here’s what you will find in the article:
1) History of the use of these images in the pro-life movement
2) Summary of the recent debate
3) Responses to the objections as to their use
4) Why we need to stop using the term “graphic images” and instead use the term “abortion victim photos”
5) Why not all abortion images are equal in their effectiveness and how to judge a bad photo versus a good one
6) The ethics of abortion victim photography
7) When and where to use the photos
I am hoping to make a serious contribution to this discussion.
I encourage you to read my article—and I welcome your feedback. All you have to do is reply to this email. Or contact: mmmillerlife@gmail.com Let’s get the discussion going!
Graphic Images: An Apologia
By Monica Migliorino Miller
The Nazi Holocaust ended nearly seventy years ago. Yet, despite the overwhelming evidence of the systematic extermination of European Jews, there are those who deny that these atrocities actually occurred. Much, if not all, of such denial is motivated by a politically or philosophically based anti-Semitism. In other words, refusal to acknowledge the Third Reich’s Final Solution is fueled by an ideology of hate, fear, and distrust of the Jews.
One of the most important rebuttals to Holocaust denial is the photographic record of its victims. This record, both still photos and film, was used to great effect by the prosecutors in the 1945 Nuremberg trials. Consider this quote below from the website of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum:
“In addition to official photography and films produced at the behest of the Nazi state, German soldiers and police took numerous photographs and film footage of German operations against Jews and other civilians. They documented the public humiliation of Jews, their deportation, mass murder, and confinement in concentration camps. This became powerful visual evidence of Nazi war crimes submitted at Nuremberg.
“Further visual documentation came from the U.S. Army Signal Corps, which, in the course of photographing and filming American operations in World War II, also played a crucial role in documenting evidence of Nazi atrocities and the Holocaust…. A number of these images were later transmitted to news agencies in the United States and other countries, where they helped to inform the world about the horrors of Nazism and the plight of concentration camp prisoners.
“On November 29, 1945, the IMT prosecution introduced an hour-long film titled “The Nazi Concentration Camps.” When the lights came up in the Palace of Justice all assembled sat in silence. The human impact of this visual evidence was a turning point in the Nuremberg trial. It brought the Holocaust into the courtroom.”
U.S. chief prosecutor Robert Jackson believed that “unless record was made…future generations would not believe how horrible the truth was.”
January 22, 2013, marked the fortieth anniversary of the U.S. Supreme Court’s Roe v. Wade decision, which has resulted in over fifty-four million abortions. Not unlike those who deny the Holocaust, the vast majority of Americans remain oblivious to the nature of abortion. Indeed, there is a concerted effort among those who advocate legal abortion, as well as those who simply do not wish to be bothered about the issue, to deny that any real human victims perish when abortions are performed.
Notice how the mainstream media essentially ignored the trial of Kermit Gosnell, convicted in May 2013 of the murder of 2nd and 3rd trimester babies born alive from his botched abortion procedures. In the Nuremberg trials, thousands of documents were retrieved and cataloged as evidence used to convict the Nazi collaborators — but it was the photographic evidence of concentration-camp atrocities that moved the court to “silence.” Why? Because nothing more needed to be said.
Continue reading full article here.
The entire article will also be available at: www.prolifesociety.com
See: www.imagesofabortion.com for videos and galleries of abortion victim photos for use in pro-life work
Perhaps it is gross to show images of aborted babies, but then, our society has changed. Up until the mid-sixties, in films and on TV, violence , murder, killing and death scenes were quite dignified. Reality is now the in thing; it seems everyone is against the pictures of aborted babies, but they do not mind the graphic sex and death scenes. Our society is twisted. We save the snails, and the whales, but abort babies. This is demonic, but it is what the father of lies wants. His loyal disciples, who are increasing rapidly every day, are following his dictates. And the Catholic Church has NOT done all in her power to stop this murder of the innocents. This is tragic, but in the end, God will be justified, and Our Lady’s Immaculate Heart will triumph.
Father Karl you are right. This world is so twisted and crooked. Just on a commercial alone we see nudity and on kids cartoons, there is so much vulgar and violence on the cartoon network! They have ugly yucky and dysfunctional cartoons. Its hard to see pictures of aborted babies, yes……but it must be done….we need to show what adults have and continue to do to our unborn. We need to be their voice and show the truth!
No one ever said that the truth was always easy. This way people can’t say ” I didn’t know”…..
Amen, Father Karl. All things work together for good to those who love God…I hope many, many here are praying their rosaries to the Immaculate Hearts of Jesus and Mary.
Those graphic photos turn people off from BOTH sides of the fight. They disgust and harden people. Unfortunately they also bring the desired attention to the people who parade around with them. They crave the attention and they feel as if they are doing something. Their actions are so terribly counterproductive but they continue to place their own desires for attention over life. Very sad.
Do they turn people off or do people who have been silent about the horror of abortion feel guilt and shame. After WW ll German citizens were taken into the concentration camps to see what they were silent about. Christians could rid society of abortion if they would speak for the weakest and most vulnerable of their bothers and sisters. Kermit Gosnell trial brought out the cries of the unborn and you know what most American just don’t care.
“…it seems everyone is against the pictures of aborted babies, but they do not mind the it seems everyone is against the pictures of aborted babies, but they do not mind the graphic sex and death scenes…”
Pure bunkum! Plenty of people in this world are horribly offended and disgusted by “graphic sex and death scenes.” Even if their wasn’t, it wouldn’t be an excuse for you to peddle your own brand of death scenes — particularly around children.
Rodda speak for your self…..it affects everyone differently….I noticed that those who are gentle in spirit, it actually touches them and it may help them realize the real horrors of abortion but the proud and uncaring will always have hardened hearts…not matter what one does. But what matters the most is that we reach one person at a time….it may not touch them now but they can’t say that they didn’t know!
Its important to show the graphic pictures! That is what got my attention and made me realize at a very young age, how real murder is committed on the innocent unborn!
Yes, Abeca. It is said that one of the things that ended the war in Vietnam was showing people what was really happening there to our young men and to the Vietnamese in photos and movies of the war on the news. “A picture is worth a thousand words…’ to coin an overused cliche. But it is no less true for all that. I wonder how all these feminists would feel about their abortions if they had a pictorial record of what really happened to the tiny little lives in their wombs…would they still wear tee shirts proudly proclaiming “I had an abortion”??
Please! Blaming all feminists for the outrageous stances of some on the question of abortion is the rational equivalent of blaming all women for the murderous acts against their babies of some women!
Did you never ever notice the ads placed on California Catholic Daily for an organization called Feminists for Life? Not all men beat their wives, not all teenagers use drugs, not all those who believe men and women are of equal value in the eyes of God are baby killers! How can anyone think such a stupid thought in this day and age, let alone set it down in a public forum? I am astounded at the continuing prejudice of those who believe in such a simple and obvious truth. Human beings being valued, respected, cared for and protected under the law equally is a humanitarian philosophy not the least bit inconsistent with babies being valued, appreciated, cared for and protected under the law!
Just because some commenters on California Catholic Daily make comments that reflect a lack of applied thinking does not mean all Catholics are non-thinkers either!
I am a feminist, a Republican, a Catholic, a conservative, pay my taxes, and am actively working against abortion! Please think before posting anti-feminist comments on a site that is Catholic, which means pro-life, and according to all recent Popes, that means that human beings are all to be valued and allowed to live out their natural lives. Many Catholics, men, women, children, priests, nuns and yes, Popes (!) agree that all human beings and all human lives God creates are of equal value!
“Some of us are becoming the men we want to marry” …Gloria Steinem
Maryanne, We have had this conversation before and for some reason you have a personal need to hold on to that title “feminist” like white holds on to rice. I wrote to you earlier that choosing to use the word “feminist” was not going to be the best or the most effective way to portray yourself as a woman let alone a Catholic. Like it or not, that is a fact. Many who are not Catholic will read the words Feminists for Life and they will think that it just means some bunch of bitter angry women who are sooo angry and bitter that they want to refer to themselves as feminists for life….meaning their own entire life. Many won’t know that you are interested in stopping abortion. Many will just think you are the same pro-abortion feminists so you may actually be promoting the opposite. Did YOU ever notice that the word feminist makes makes many automatically think of baby killing activists such as Gloria Steinem and Jane Fonda. I posted to you a few years ago that by choosing to use that word “feminist” to describe yourself, it would be a huge uninviting turn-off for many and it would not be the best word to use if trying to lead someone to Christ. I will admit that by choosing to keep using the word “feminist” that you DO get to talk about yourself quite a bit more so if that is someone’s goal then that word certainly achieves that purpose. Please don’t have a spittle-flecked nutty if others perceive that word as a big negative especially when it comes to showing any remote example of our tainted nature’s solitary boast. How counter productive to leading others to holiness would a title such as Our Feminist Lady of Fatima. Our Feminist Lady of Mount Carmel sound. That would sound very goofy.
cont.
Catherine is correct. Maryanne notice that dbw stated ” I wonder how all these feminists would feel about their abortions” She was speaking of the feminists that had abortions and the ones who wear those awful t-shirts….why did you jump the bandwagon and twisted what she truly meant. You owe her an apology. Plus Catherine is correct because the word feminist is now something more negative than positive because of how things are today. I am for women to better themselves, I understand why the the feminist movement began, if only men would of treated and protected their women right as God has commanded them to do, we wouldn’t be in this mess. Some may not get what I am saying…but it all began with Adam, blaming God for giving him Eve and blaming that woman. He didn’t protect her either from the enemy. After all she came from his rib. Then as history shows it, because of sin….women had to endure the sins of eve as well…had to live them and they were made properties of their husbands. Well we know the history, everything has it’s end, the mistreatment of women and children have produced it’s fruit. Thank goodness for St, Joseph, he lived a great example on how he protected Virgin Mary and baby Jesus. What a noble and holy man. If only society would follow Mary’s great holy example and Joseph’s noble heart. We do have holy men and women who seek daily to work on being better, chaste and holy.
Also because of feminism, they have gone backwards because it is now men who are the ones who are now being treated badly. I don’t like to set the tone that our boys and young men don’t matter. I have met feminist who say that they don’t need a man to raise a child. It’s selfish, its no different than when gays want to raise children as well. Feminism has brought out a lot of negative tones to family life and may have contributed to many problems because of its extremist. But it is all provoked by mankind and it’s sinfulness.
I wonder too who came up with that name “feminist”….it just carries a not so positive tone. I hope it wasn’t some angry men who were mad at women who wanted to have the rights to vote and have better wages? Nothing wrong with that! Maybe it’s origins where meant for good which is understandably so….treating women with the dignity as should and does NOT defy the natural law. God has made that clear with His love for how to protect and the special roles He has given us…but it’s always sin that complicates things…..
You obviously hold a lot of stereotypes. Feminism is not opposed to Catholicism although some feminists are. Do you think it is OK for women to wear pants? To vote? To express their opinions in public? I hope you do. Do you think it is OK for women who are not 36-24-36 to be seen in public? I hope you do. Do you think it is OK for women to go out of the house without makeup? I hope you do. Do you think it is OK for women to go to college? to hold a job? Do you think it is OK for a woman to not be sexual with anyone or do you see it as a waste of something that could be pleasing a man? I hope you don’t. I am sure you understand that feminism is a broad field of thought, some of which can be opposed to Catholic thinking, but not necessarily.
Maryanne Leonard: It would be nice if you also included gay people in your big tent, Maryanne. We get far worse treatment here on CCD, but I never hear you defending us, yet when there are one or two anti-feminist posts and you are all up in arms. Maybe you’ll consider advocating that we be treated with respect in upcoming months? All I ask is that you apply to us what you have written about yourselves and about the unborn: “Human beings being valued, respected, cared for and protected under the law equally”.
YFC,
If you are writing about active homosexuality, it commands NO respect! If you are writing about those who have that temptation but reject it for the love of God, that commands a great deal of respect.
May God have mercy on your compromised soul!
May God have mercy on an amoral America!
Viva Cristo Rey!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher, Founding Director
Concerned Roman Catholics of America, Inc.
YFC,
Thank you for exposing the reliance on one of the dangerous and deadly tentacles within the Catholic Church that the homosexual agenda has come to heavily rely and bank on for assistance. Not a good sign Maryanne Leonard. YFC is openly identifying his faith and trust in your “feminism” more than his willingness to trust in “all “of the teachings of the Catholic Church founded by Christ. The “Ungodly Rage” of feminism.”
‘ Ungodly Rage ‘ Donna Steichen: Ignatius Press
Written by a Catholic journalist who has investigated feminism on its own ground, this remarkable book fully exposes the hidden face of Catholic feminism for the first time, revealing its theoretical and psychological roots in loss of faith. Extensively documented, this is the definitive account of a movement impelled by vengeful rage to revolt against all spiritual authority, providing detailed information on Catholic feminist theologians, organizers, the movement’s defense of abortion, its connections with witchcraft and New Age rituals, and its disastrous effects on the Catholic faithful.
This book should be welcomed by Catholic men and women striving to understand the disarray in the Church, and what can be done about it.
Mr. Fisher, may God have mercy on your compromised soul as well!
Catherine, what I am saying is that Pharisees have more than one target.
YFC, read this too.
https://www.users.csbsju.edu/~eknuth/dsintro.html
YFC if “gays” get treated bad as you says so….geeze I wonder why? Could it be just a consequence that comes with those who defy God and His church teachings. You are not very honest sir. You want people to bow down to your theories of homosexuality more than have the faithful honor God and His church. That is a sin..to mislead people! Even when you seek to twist those teachings just so you can find comfort in your sinfulness.
Geeze I find salvation more appealing than the plan you have on homosexuality sir….so sorry no can do! I stick with our Lord….and His natural laws as well! You should too….
I’m not going to your virus laden webpages cja, and I recommend others not go there as well. In fact, the editors ought to remove the link.
YFC, I don’t know why you think it is virus-laden. It is the website for a catholic college. But anyway, it is a short article by someone who tried to verify the things written in the book recommended by Catherine. Some of the authors claims are not substantiated at all. Some quotes are taken out of context. It is an analysis of the intro and first chapter of the book. I wanted you to understand that this book is a controversial book that is sensationalistic and obviously biased. I am seriously dumbfounded by the lack of ability people have to recognize that having read one book does not make one an expert on the subject. Some elderly lady writes something positive about feminism and every stupid example of doctrinal error held by women in a book written 20 years ago gets dumped on this person and she is hanged in the cyber square. This is just plain stupid.
Abeca Christian, no, of course gays being treated bad is not a consequence from God because God told people not to do that.
There is no Catholic standards here in this website…anything goes, everyone is right…..there is no line drawn. There is no right or wrong, so it seems ….for example Mr Fisher admonishes YFC for giving gay lifestyles some voice….then you have YFC telling Mr, Fisher, who said nothing wrong nor did nothing wrong in defending the faith on a Catholic website, ” Mr. Fisher, may God have mercy on your compromised soul as well!”……anything goes here, there is no standard or respect since it is a Catholic website…anything goes and everyone is equal, which only gives the impression that the truth has no authority or truth…everyone’s truth is their own and anything goes and anything can go on on a Catholic website. If I was an outsider and a guest at someones home, I am expected to show courtesy and respect to that homes standards…like if I went to someone’s home and they expected that I take off my shoes, then I do….so if you have blatantly people who dissent on church teachings, come here as guests bash someone in this home which is suppose to be Catholic, then how is that right? It won’t be fruitful if its trying to be fruitful and set standards which ultimately lead to virtue… The true mission is lost…..because of the abuses allowed and not having the distinction of discerning who really are for the faith….
cja that is your opinion!
dbw yes I agree. I still get shocked that a woman would wear those awful T-shirts. If PETA would just throw some red paint on those females who wear those T-shirts, then I would be dreaming. But instead PETA throws red paint on the those who wear fur coats and such. dbw ( I prefer Dana but OK) thank you for having strong convictions that are honorable to our Lord. I appreciate them.
we women can sometimes just go overboard…its not always our fault, those hormones just get us in trouble. Hey I’m humble enough to admit it! LOL They can humble us at times…..not always proud moments that is for sure. But I heard that men have their male hormones too…..maybe not as often, who knows. I know that they get excused more often than women do. We women can also be extra hard on each other, many a times we tend to sympathize more with the opposite sex than we do with our own sex.
Thanks Abeca…I prefer my own name too, but I just got really tired of seeing it here. Maybe I am talking too much. haha As for women being hard on each other, I think it’s because we know each other’s little tricks and foibles, especially those used by some women that play men like harps, and it makes us a bit cranky when they claim they’re being used…like Steinem posing as a playboy bunny… what does she expect dressed in a bunny costume with her chest in industrial strength chest enhancers..to be treated like Margaret Thatcher? That was such a publicity stunt. But I digress. oops. Getting back to the photo issue, I think if people truly understood the horror of abortion it would be ended very quickly. Also, no one should ever be allowed to make a profit at the killing of another human being. If I were a lawyer I would use that as a way to end abortion…work on eliminating the profit motive. If PP couldn’t make a dime murdering helpless little babies, they’d move on to something else. Think of them trying to defend their making money on the deaths of helpless babies.
No you are not talking to much dbw. When people speak up and reason well that is honorable to our Lord….it’s never too much….we need more. You and I both wish we could be lawyers and fight to make better laws but who knows if we would have had the knowledge we have now. This knowledge came to us over the years…it wasn’t taught to us in school. So knows….but I get what you are saying.
I apologize to everyone for bringing up the feminist thing…the last thing I want to do is have us attacking each other. I care about all of you and pray we stay focused on the true enemy of the Church and of us and all we love and hold dear…who wants to see us in disarray and squabbling, who wants to weaken our faith and our ability to carry on the good fight and defend the lives of these precisous little ones. Thank you dear sisters, Catherine & Abeca.. what a blessing you both are…and I’ll bet you’re even for wearing pants (woo woo) and gasp! women voting and even (yahooo) learning how to read! I think I’ll go back to being dana though, because now my initials moniker has been tainted! sigh. Actually, because of the power of the photos in the article, I feel like we’re talking at a funeral when the body is in its open coffin just across the room. Sometimes it’s just overpowering when you think of the millions and millions of innocent babies being murdered and in such painful and inhuman ways! It’s impossible to take in, isn’t it? We must keep praying and doing what we can to end abortion. We must stay united and focus on what needs doing. Hugs all round. Each of you has something special to offer the unborn in his or her own way. Don’t lets waste our talents on infighting.
Show the images! I always do, online, before getting banned from websites (LOL). If it’s just tissue, the images shouldn’t bother them; that it does bother them, means it’s not just tissue.
In fact, our priests should hold up photos from the pulpit, and say, “All you who vote for this have blood on your hands!”
People like you are part of the problem. All you do is disgust and harden others. It might feel great to you to bring attention to yourself but it certainly doesn’t help the pro-life cause!
Rodda what foolish rubbish you have embraced! Even if pictures aren’t shown, you are still hardened!
Oh, sure, it’s people like me defending the innocent who are part of the problem, not people like you who vote for baby butchers and have the blood of innocents on your hands. Don’t rely on that on Judgment Day.
Rodda,
Please tell me an activist since the early 60’s and Dr. Miller all about your experiences in the pro-life movement. We would love to hear it!
May God have mercy on your soul!
May God have mercy on an amoral America!
Viva Cristo Rey!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher, Founding Director
Concerned Roman Catholics of America, Inc.
I wonder if Rodda ever stood by an abortion clinic and prayed or offered to help a woman choose life? I wonder…..it’s interesting how some discourage the pro-life efforts with their cold opinions.
How could we ever ignore the truth of what is really happening at abortion mills. This is a great sadness to me…cold hearten folks discouraging any efforts to end abortion. Even if you disagree, fine but don’t discourage!
The pictures of holocaust victims in mass graves were horrific and shocking, and they showed us what was done to our fellow humans in the death camps. It helped to convict the Nazi criminals. The photos of victims of abortion should be shown. They are holocaust victims, too. People need to know that an abortion is not just a mere medical procedure that takes a few minutes, but the tortuous killing of a helpless human being who feels pain. During an abortion, the mother is usually given an anesthetic or pain medication, but none for the baby who is being ripped apart and killed. The grisly photos helped to convict the murderer Gosnell. Please continue showing the photos; they could even cause a woman considering an abortion to decide against having it. If a woman truly does not want the baby, she can carry it to term and it can be adopted by loving parents.
Amen, Sarah!
I think those that display such images in public (such as during a walk for life) after having been politely asked not to are people desperate to bring attention to THEMSELVES.
Very similar to a person who wears wild clothes, weird tattoos or odd hairstyles to attract attention. They are easy enough to ignore but I sure hate to see such people around children.
God Bless the courageous pro lifer’s like Mr. Foti, who has not wavered to show the truth! Many babies have been saved because of his witness in the public square. Sure we don’t like to see the horror–but when will it end? My heart is so heavy when I see the images of sacred life dumped like garbage. Oh dear Lord, sustain your faithful servants who fight for life. May we never stop fighting for the most vunerable among us.
Amen!
” Courageous?” Are you serious? How about “attention seeking?”
Rodda,
“Those who live in glass houses should never throw stones!”
May God have mercy on an amoral America!
Viva Cristo Rey!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher, Founding Director
Concerned Roman Catholics of America, Inc.
R.B Rodda, Yes it absolutely takes courage to show these graphic pictures. RB were you the one who was “attention seeking” for another particular agenda when you wrote a post that clearly undermined a priest for courageously defending the teachings of the Catholic Church regarding the Boy Scouts of America? Or was that a slip up that exposed that you are not quite as bold as the other activists on this website. RB, You can be sure that from the murdered baby’s perspective that these babies are silently screaming out to be heard “Show the world what they are doing to us so it will not be tolerated.”
Here is just one of the many posts taken from the website of The Center for Bio-Ethical reform. These young women certainly disagree with what you falsely claim.
“After reading the views on aborthion vs. genocide and seeing the awful tragedy that occurs during a sergincal abortion, I have my changed my mind on being pro choice. I unfortunitly was considering the option for myself and have absolutly changed my mind after reading through the listed information. I almost cried and i feel terrible for considering it in the first place. If there was more main stream images and information like this open to the public, i think abortion would stop considerably and maybe the unborn child would be given its civil rights.”
20-year-old female /Anchorage, Alaska /September 24, 2011
Good one Catherine! Catherine you nailed again once again….Rodda glad someone exposes you.
Folks the murder of the unborn is not something to be taken lightly! NEVER. If we all become desensitized to the fact that a baby is being tortured, then how can we face our Lord. He has warned us against scandalizing children. It’s a scandal of innocent souls. The Lord have mercy!
Those little 7 week old babies…so precious, so tiny, loved immensely by God our Creator…brings me to tears…
If you recall our Holy Mother Mary showed the three children of Fatima Hell. That was the most horrifying sight anyone, let alone a child, could ever see! She did it to show them where the souls of poor sinners go. If the people who believe in choice, promote, or consider abortion do not SEE the reality of this crime, they may just turn a def ear. Images can be stuck in your head your whole life and as others have pointed out, they can speake volumes with out uttering a word!
JFK,
Thanks, although I am a devotee of Our Lady of Fatima, I never before made that connection. The Holy Spirit had to have put that into your mind!
May God have mercy on an amoral America!
Viva Cristo Rey!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher, Founding Director
Concerned Roman Catholics of America, Inc.
I agree, Kenneth. That was really profound what JFK wrote and I will try to remember it. I’d better write it down
It works once-then one becomes desensitized to it. I think pictures of babies in the womb with a caption that tells how far many weeks of gestation are more effective.
These people remind me of those that ruined the right to carry an exposed and unloaded firearm in California.
They were so keen to bring attention to themselves, so keen to feel like John Wayne, so desirous to offend others that a law was passed making it illegal.
All about personal ego.
R. B. Rodda, I know of real human beings who were saved from the same fate as those in the ABORTION VICTIM PHOTOS you so vehemently oppose. The mothers of those little ones who were saved were horrified to think that this is what they actually planned for their own flesh and blood!
The article does acknowledge that there is a debate about this among pro-lifers. I can’t help but wonder, however, given your negativity of showing the truth to the public via photographs and your blatant lack of other suggested strategies for winning this war against humanity whether or not you are even pro-life. Or are you really going to try to convince me that you were once pro-life but after seeing one of those images you now have become so “disgusted and hardened” that you have abandoned the pro-life position?!!! I would imagine that the more likely situation is that you are post abortive yourself and have yet to come to terms with it. Either way, your position does cause me to take pause and wonder.
Tracy,
Wow! You may have just hit the proverbial nail on the head!
May God have mercy on an amoral America!
Viva Cristo Rey!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher, Founding Director
Concerned Roman Catholics of America, Inc.
What about discussing the merits of the essential facts related to the issues being debated instead of decrying that those who have taken a passionate position and are trying to get their point across are only out for attention? How is that tactic any different from direct ad hominem attacks on individuals when you have nothing of substance in your quiver?
Are we all to remain silent no matter what outrages are perpetrated in this world and to live trembling in terror that someone will accuse us of wanting attention for ourselves? Is it even remotely possible that someone may have a point to make and want that point to be heard as opposed to wanting personal attention?
I see those accusations as worthless and transparent, with no way to back up the weak statement.
Let’s stick to the issues, and stop stooping to personal attacks, overt and covert, my friends! We are educated people who can read, write and think! Surely we can do better than this in our personal discourse.
I know Dr. Monica Miglorino Miller personally, I believe we have even shared a podium at one time. She is not one to try to get attention to herself, but one woman driven by the horrors of abortion. It is amazing to witness such power come out of a very petite woman as is Dr. Monica Miglorino Miller! I thank God and His Mother for her!
I knew her when she was Monica Miglorino!
May God have mercy on an amoral America!
Viva Cristo Rey!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher, Founding Director
Concerned Roman Catholics of America, Inc.
The TRUTH must prevail.
Endowment for Human Development: https://www.ehd.org/movies.php?mov_id=44
” We are educated people who can read, write and think! ”
Maryanne Leonard, It is not education or intellect that saves us. Some of the most intellectual individuals have caused the most damage in the vineyard. Their hearts have become hardened. You have defended the right of the unborn but you have yourself thrown a couple of considerable huge and glaring wrenches into the mix when you chose to use your intellect to cause confusion by pre-canonizing an individual who is openly leading souls away from trusting God by following the Magisterial teachings regarding same sex marriage. Loyalty should ALWAYS be to God first. Same sex marriage, like abortion is also a part of the culture of death. The widespread use of artificial contraception is the open door to someone being able to also ignore what the Church teaches on abortion and on other matters such as euthanasia and same sex marriage. This has nothing to do with intellect. This has to do with faith and trust that Jesus founded the Catholic Church with clear teachings. No one has the authority to change what God has revealed no matter how much charity work they do. Leading souls away from God is the most uncharitable thing that someone could do. We must become like little humble children who do not stomp our feet and claim to know more than God with our intellects. Clergy who are leading others astray will bring down many with their intellect.
Like a dog with a rag in its teeth.
Anonymous are you speaking of yourself? Or where you calling Catherine a dog! Shame on you….go to confession! Let there be dialogue between Maryanne and Catherine but don’t be the instigator who adds an ugly tone to the good work Catherine is trying to challenge in others to think. I don’t appreciate your ugly and terrible comment! God have mercy! This is greatly disappointing.
“Like a dog with a rag in its teeth.”
An unwitting compliment. Dogs are faithful to their Master.
Please be faithful to your Master. That is all I ask.
Anony you don’t care for our Master….because you have stooped an all time low…discouraging dialogue and calling another baptized Catholic who is consistent in her Catholic convictions, you chose to call a dog and an evil witch! You are showing your true colors.
I hate hypocrites….
You know Catherine, people DO understand what is meant by saying abortion is part of a culture of death. But NOBODY gets how anything related to gay has anything whatsoever to do with a culture of death. I know you didn’t invent the notion. But it makes no sense nonetheless. NOBODY gets that because it confounds logic, and because of that it actually dilutes the concept of the culture of death.
YFC, I saw a woman speaking at a Wash.D.C. prog. today and she said something really helpful, that many gays love each other and she stressed how sad it was that they faced a shortened life span, and that when gay men get older they are usually very lonely because the emphasis is always on young men, etc. and because of pressure from the militant gays, they don’t have access to programs for getting out of such helplessness. There is so much woundedness and death, and people that love them feel helpless. We’re all sinners and all of us need the hope and healing that only Jesus Christ gives, as you know. But until we get out of the way and stop insisting on holding on to our old nature, and our old sins, (the old wineskins) we’ll never be able to complete the transformation (the new wine)…we’ll be living in that most vulnerable of places , the land of in-between like the foam of the ocean, midnight, the in=between gray area where evil enters in. You’re half way there YFC. But like the monkey with his hand in the trap because he wouldn’t let go of the food he couldn’t get his hand out, he was easily caught.
Had he just let go of the tempting morsel, he could have slipped his hand out easily.
YFC you don’t understand because of your choice to live a gay lifestyle!
Abortion and Sodomy kill the Soul of the sinner.
(If they are fortunate, they will repent before they die.)
Horrifically muddled thinking, Catherine. It is perfectly Godly of me to say that women are the equal of men in the eyes of God at the same time as I am defending the right to life of the innocent unborn. Many feminists are against abortion and indeed work, as I do, against it actively, including the members of the much-respected organization, Feminists for Life, to which I do not happen to belong but have supported.
Worst of all, however, I must denounce your patently false statement that I am leading souls away from God. In fact, the exact opposite is true. I continue to be astonished that somehow I have managed to lead souls directly to God and into the Catholic Church, a great hope of mine but nothing I have ever dared to imagine I could do, despite having achieved it several times, thanks be to God above, to Whom all credit goes exclusively.
Your outrageously untrue statement is a blatant misuse the basic tenets of Christian doctrine as a shield behind which to attack indefensibly, and further, to so state is an outright lie.
I will not engage in intellectual discourse with anyone who stoops so low as to put forth such a staggering lie, especially about something so critically important as to daring to state the charge of “leading souls away from God.”
Your futile and transparent attacks as rogue soldier for Christianity, attacking right and left, has you attacking people unjustifiably and now even stooping to falsehoods in print.
This is a superb example of misusing intellectual assets, Catherine. Our exchanges shall now cease, as I am done responding to your lies and innuendoes. May you soon choose peace and love and turn away from your present pathway of lies, distortions, as well as baseless, uncharitable ad hominem attacks.
Maryanne Leonard you are misunderstanding Catherine….I pray for humility. I pray for peace and joy in all our hearts. Catherine tried giving you some good examples too….its too bad that you jumped the boat, just an expression.
Sweet Abeca,
Maryanne is not misunderstanding me. Maryanne deliberately chose to roll the dice by pre-canonizing a priest who is openly ridiculing the Catholic Church for the teachings regarding same sex marriage. If we are going to slowly introduce a wrong, what better way than to introduce it through a person who is well known for charity with gangs. This is the internet and we really do not know who we are dialoguing with. The one recognizable factor that helps and holds true during these very turbulent times is a poster’s consistency in adhering to Church teaching. It is one thing to tell others that we accept and promote the teachings. It is quite another for that same poster to pre-canonize clergy that have caused such devastation and confusion in the vineyard. Not a good sign. One of the reasons that we are in such a mess is that our teachings are not being defended. Thank you Abeca for your always passionate and caring heart. God bless you sweet sister in Christ.
Catherine I appreciate the honest dialogue you are trying to have with Maryanne. As you can see the editors chose to allow cheap name calling which can discourage dialogue between you and Maryanne. It instigates unnecessary arguing and the efforts to dialogue well is again threatened. I don’t understand what is their purpose for this website any longer? Do they honestly want real dialogue between those that disagree with each other or do they want to allow name calling to be done towards those of faith. Calling you an evil witch was a real evil attack! I think that because anony is pro-gay rights, he/she was not really defending Maryanne but instead was ticked that you keep bringing up the gay issue. You are correct. Your intentions are honorable and if this website is sincere in its Catholicity, then they will see that, they should have not allowed that name calling on you.
Catherine, I won’t pretend to understand any of this, but I would imagine that this whole topic of abortion and the devastating pictures of these little ones really make MaryAnne feel raw and violated because of what happened to her many years ago. I understand your passion for truth and admire your love for beauty etc. and never have any trouble understanding what you write, but I think it’s more difficult for some here to fully express what they feel…especially when it’s something so hurtful. I pray you both can forgive one another here as you both love life and the Church. God bless you and I’ll pray to Our Blessed Mother to restore peace and harmony between you. But I hope Maryanne sees that in expressing what she has about feminism she feels the full weight of uncapping a whole host of cliches and shallow litanies of complaints of the suffering of women yet again from other posters. That takes some forgiving, as far as I’m concerned. ;o) We could all enjoin our various grievances such as those who lisp, or have flat feet or big bums or a gummy smile…the list is endless and our persecutions great, but to put it in perspective, how many of us were perfect and nailed on a cross not for what we did but for what everyone else did?
Maryanne, I don’t blame you for now wanting to hide and cease “discourse.” If I was caught red-handed trying to rob a bank or in this case rob an important truth, then I would not want to face the person who was asking me to return the money (truth) and apologize for causing chaos and confusion. That was a real risky move on your part to pre-canonize a priest who is openly ridiculing Church teaching on same sex marriage. It did not work. Maryanne, I have copied your own words below. Your words that I have quoted below are an example of muddled thinking.
“His life’s work is phenomenal and speaks for itself, but being in his presence and talking with him, or merely observing him serving his community, would serve as a superb example of why we should debate concepts, ideas, values, philosophies, etc., but not decry as evil or wicked a good human being who is in error on some topics as a result of having one of the biggest hearts of anyone I’ve ever met. It is hard to find anyone whose life is more saintly. He truly is a possible candidate for sainthood someday, and as a fellow cancer survivor, who kept on serving all through his illness, he has my respect as a human being. He is admittedly out of step with Church teachings, I will grant you, but his years of incredible service far outweigh any missteps he takes in his public pronouncements as a priest”
Maryanne you also chose to not “discourse” with a priest on that same thread who kindly asked you “are you serious?” Not a very good sign Maryanne!
Stop picking on Maryanne Leonard.
Maryanne Leonard, our Lord Jesus Christ said to offer no resistance to a person who is evil and to turn the other cheek. God bless you and may He reward you for your faithfulness. Attacks against Christ come from all sides. You do right to stand up for a priest for it sickens the Sacred Heart of Jesus when they are attacked.
Catherine is not easily discouraged…she knows that if she is attacked personally, then it is the tricks of the evil one who wants to slow down dialogue amongst God’s people. The Lord gave us the ability to reason, to dialogue so we can seek to communicate effectively. They say that it’s a gift to do it right. Today this world usually tries to stop honest dialogue because most people don’t want to feel attacked or confronted or feel stupid all due to pride. The liberal mind is one sided, they never want dialogue if its not going their way. So often there is name calling. We all fall tempted to that. How do we change hearts? It is through honest dialogue but most people lack true honesty from within. It’s hard to look at ourselves. They say that if we saw what God see’s about ourselves, that many would run and hide, just like Adam and Eve did when they discovered that they were naked. But she is smarter than that. The reason our Christian Faith grew it was because we are Catholic, we are to spread the gospel and help one another grow in virtue, share the good news and defend the truth and the faith. There is much disagreements amongst the faithful because this wicked world has desensitized sin and because of that there is much confusion.
THIS THREAD IS NOW CLOSED TO ADDITIONAL COMMENT.
I’m sorry that you didn’t understand Catherine but I guess that is what happened to me as well when I tried defending a group of men, the feminist, who so proudly proclaimed, didn’t understand my point when I tried telling her that our husbands did matter….she called me a hater of women. I was astonished. I am always high up there in protecting women who have been abused but for some reason, I realized that I couldn’t reason well with a feminist because she has already made up her mind that men where evil.
You may not own property. You may not vote. You may not hold any job except schoolteacher or nurse or Avon lady and then only if you are not married. You may not drink alcohol. You may not smoke cigarettes. If your husband dies, you will live in poverty. You will have to send your children out to beg. Feminism is not man-hating; it is not pro-choice; it is not lesbianism. And please stop posting here. Women are not to take part in public discourse. Get off the internet and go scrub the kitchen floor. Your husband has full rights to beat you if you do not live up to your duties.
You probably weren’t alive during the days when kids had to drop out of elementary school to go to work because their father died. You probably weren’t alive in the days when it was very rare for a girl to finish high school and going to college was almost unheard of. You probably did not have a parent who thought that girls did not need to learn to read. You probably did not have a parent that tried to marry you off for their financial or social advantage. The face of feminism these days is Malala Yousafzai, shot in the head for going to school.
“Who turning, said to Peter: Go behind me, Satan, thou art a scandal unto me: because thou savourest not the things that are of God, but the things that are of men. [24] Then Jesus said to his disciples: If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. [25] For he that will save his life, shall lose it: and he that shall lose his life for my sake, shall find it.” Matthew 16:23-25 Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible
The Virgin
BY WILLIAM WORDSWORTH
Mother! whose virgin bosom was uncrost
With the least shade of thought to sin allied.
Woman! above all women glorified,
Our tainted nature’s solitary boast;
Purer than foam on central ocean tost;
Brighter than eastern skies at daybreak strewn
With fancied roses, than the unblemished moon
Before her wane begins on heaven’s blue coast;
Thy image falls to earth. Yet some, I ween,
Not unforgiven the suppliant knee might bend,
As to a visible Power, in which did blend
All that was mixed and reconciled in thee
Of mother’s love with maiden purity,
Of high with low, celestial with terrene!
You do remember how Our Lady of Fatima told Lucia that she was to learn to read and write? Her mother thought it was outrageous. You sure don’t seem to know the Church’s teachings very well.
That is a down right lie! For women to have all those blessings come from God and their fight to defend their human dignity not because of Feminism! Wow people sure change the language. OK I’m gonna come off prideful but who cares….you obviously have not read my comments! Many misunderstandings that is for sure but I don’t care to waste my time trying to explain what I was trying to convey…..we woman have come so far and praise God for the improvements but you are wrong to credit the good to feminism, no siree….its because we stood our ground and protected one another not because we decided to label out selves feminist! I am not a feminist! I do not agree with how you have changed the definition! I know better…..like Dr. Laura once described it, she use to be a feminist and rebelled against men but now she knows better and how that rebellion actually destroyed morals and families…so no sir. When we moral people speak of feminism, we are speaking of the ones that stood out more and that is the pro-abortion, anti-men, anti-stay at home mums etc folks!
It’s stupid to misinterpret my good comments here and of dbw’s….stupid to say that because of feminism we now can wear pants. I don’t recall St. Joan of Arc calling herself a feminist, she was not! What God gave good women is not feminism but gave us the courage and strength to defend ourselves…its not a definition of feminism! I give our prayers the credit. When women were abused, it was prayer that helped move hearts so men and women can come together to defend what is dignified….
Anony go to confession because you bare false witness…you have no faith! God is to credit for all the good and what is evil is to be credited to its secular name! That name is “gay” “feminism” etc….
It is a shame that this important article has become a series of bullying and anti=bullying posts.
You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against the sons of your own people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the Lord. Leviticus 19:18
If you are speaking of the name calling then yes it is a shame but for the honest dialogue….well it’s not a matter of bullying or else if anyone wanted to dialogue and people consistently used the word bully because they felt uneasy about being challenged to answer…then if the ability to reason and communicate was a gift from God and yet it is constantly being discouraged all in the misuse of word abuse usage, like bully, name calling etc….The instigator didn’t bear good fruit, they only caused more confusion and false compassion…..
It’s interesting how this same anony didn’t call the gay activist an evil warlock when he keeps dissenting on church teachings in regards to homosexuality and also has put down church teachings on the natural law by labeling anyone who embraces those teachings as homophobia. But it’s OK if you call someone who defends church teachings an evil witch or a dog! It’s OK if the editor allow those attacks to go through….wondering what is the purpose of this website….to persecute those of faith and convictions? I thought that the secular was already doing a fine job at hating Christians and allowing it much but do we need it also to be allowed on a Catholic website????
Maybe not but all I do is go by what I see. This is suppose to be Catholic website, let me remind all those agenda promoting activists and those who have false compassion…..
Whatever position ones takes, it should be the result of very serious consideration. That’s why I included the subject in ‘Serious Thoughts on Sidewalk Counseling’ at “sidewalkcounseling dot wordpress dot com” (replace dot with a period).
THIS THREAD IS NOW CLOSED TO ADDITIONAL COMMENT.