The following comes from an Oct. 5 posting by Father Mark Pilon of the Arlington (VA) diocese on LittlemoreTracts.com.
The standard take on the new Pope seems to be that he is determined to shake up the Church and create a new openness to the world. He is, in his own subtle way, quite critical of the lack of openness in the Church as governed by his predecessors and seems super confident that he has the right stuff to finally accomplish this goal of openness to modern culture: “The Council Fathers knew that being open to modern culture meant religious ecumenism and dialogue with non-believers. But afterwards very little was done in that direction. I have the humility and ambition to want to do something.”
It’s strange to hear a pope describe himself as humble, as if his immediate predecessors were lacking in that quality, which could be implied if that is the critical virtue for success in dialogue, and “little was done in that direction.” What does the Pope mean when he says that little was done after Vatican II “in that direction?” He never tells us, which is a frequent problem when he criticizes the past failures of the Church; he gives us no specifics which leaves us wondering what or who he is talking about. He says, “The church sometimes has locked itself up in small things, in small-minded rules.” But not one concrete example of a small-minded rule is given, which invites speculation as to what rules might be small-minded in his eyes, liturgical rules, celibacy, much of the Code regarding divorced Catholics? And the gamut is certainly being run by those who despise the rules of the Church regarding things like divorced and remarried Catholics and their admission to the sacraments and whatever the dissenters don’t like in pastoral and sacramental practice.
Again, he too often answers questions with a further question which may work in a Jesuit classroom, but generates speculation and confusion in the real world. In the first interview, the Pope does this a number of times: “A person once asked me, in a provocative manner, if I approved of homosexuality. I replied with another question: ‘Tell me: when God looks at a gay person, does he endorse the existence of this person with love, or reject and condemn this person?’ It’s a dodge. That is not what the person was asking about.
A second example: “Then this woman remarries, and she is now happy and has five children. That abortion in her past weighs heavily on her conscience and she sincerely regrets it. She would like to move forward in her Christian life. What is the confessor to do?” Again, He gives no answer, and so the question remains open – should the confessor absolve the abortion while ignoring the second marriage, or perhaps even solve the marriage problem in the internal forum of conscience? Maybe that is why he focuses on private conscience so much, perhaps. Is that an unfair reading? Perhaps this text from the second interview provides a hint as to how he thinks this case should be resolved: “Everyone has his own idea of good and evil and must choose to follow the good and fight evil as he conceives them. That would be enough to make the world a better place.”
That interpretation may be unfair, but open questions invite open speculations. Indeed the atheist interviewer from the Italian newspaper does not hesitate to speculate about the Pope’s thinking. He is very impressed with the Pope’s statement right off the bat that “Proselytism is solemn nonsense, it makes no sense. We need to get to know each other, listen to each other and improve our knowledge of the world around us.” And again: “I believe I have already said that our goal is not to proselytize but to listen to needs, desires and disappointments, despair, hope.” The editor thinks this is great that the Church no longer desires to convert people, but just wants an open-ended dialogue with the world. Is he right? The Pope never corrects this startling interpretation of the mission of the Church.
Then, when the pope speaks about conscience in language that differs little from the purely subjective language regarding conscience that dominate our culture, the editor draws this conclusion about the Pope: “An openness to modern and secular culture of this breadth, such a profound vision between conscience and its autonomy, has never before been heard from the chair of St. Peter.” And again in that same August 7 article, the editor reads Francis’ notion of his mission this way: “His mission contains two scandalous innovations: the poor Church of Francis, the horizontal Church of Martini. And a third: a God who does not judge, but forgives. There is no damnation, there is no hell.”
That third “innovation” is surely way off the tracks, but it may be a false reading of a possible principle that explains why Francis is not so concerned with conversion and heavy on the notion of private conscience as the ticket to Heaven. Does he share the universal salvation mentality of many of his Jesuit confreres today? His statements that “Carlo Maria Martini … [is] someone who is very dear to me” and “Jesuits were and still are the leaven — perhaps the most effective — of Catholicism” seem to suggest such a direction. Martini was a most liberal Jesuit and an open dissenter on moral teaching, calling upon the Church to change her sexual norms. Those of us who are Jesuit trained in this country may also not share the notion that his order has been a positive leaven since the Council. Elusive and enigmatic are the words that come immediately to my mind.
To read the original posting, click here.
My love for Cardinal Newman keeps me from being upset
The following comes from an Oct. 5 posting by Father Pilon on The Catholic Thing.
A number of my friends are more upset than I tend to be by what they call the “Francis problem.” That’s not to say that I don’t find some of the pope’s statements and actions troubling. The papacy is not the Church and the Church is not simply the papacy. The tendency in recent times is for conservative Catholics to make this identification, at least implicitly. This is one side effect of the pope becoming a superstar, treated almost like the Oracle of Delphi.
Cardinal Manning is reported to have said that he would like to read an infallible papal pronouncement each morning with his tea. When I studied in Rome with members of Opus Dei, some of them seemed to consider every word of John Paul II’s to be a solemn declaration of truth. During his papacy some of the more conservative bishops who greatly admired John Paul II, as I myself do, would basically make their homilies a series of quotations from recent papal statements, rather than citing the great Fathers and Doctors of the Church – for me, another negative side effect of a pope who always seems to be “on stage.” Pope Francis seems to be following that model.
My love for Cardinal Newman is a barrier to this incipient Papalatry. Newman did not come to the Church via admiration for the papacy, with which he struggled right up till he converted. Newman converted through his study of the Fathers and Sacred Scripture, just as Pope Ratzinger was more dependent on the Fathers and Doctors of the Church than even the great popes of the last century and a half.
Likewise, my faith does not depend upon the prudence or wisdom of the particular pope in the exercise of his office. I depend upon the Holy Father to defend the orthodoxy and, therefore, the unity of the Church, which is his most important function. That’s why the charism of infallibility applies only to his solemn doctrinal pronouncements. Of course, the pope is given special guidance by the Holy Spirit even when he speaking non-infallibly, but only when he is speaking out of the tradition of the teaching Church, which is particularly found in the Fathers and Doctors.
But there’s another reason that I can’t get too upset with the “Francis problem.” The “problem” is and has been much greater than any one man, even the one who happens to be the pope. It has to do with the proper relationship between law and grace, between the laws of the Church, which have to be consonant with the natural law and the nature of the Church and her sacraments, and the practice of pastoral charity.
A crisis seems to have arisen due to an abandonment of this proper relationship, where the law of the Church is now often seen to be in conflict with the law of charity, almost by its very nature. Because charity rules supreme, the resolution to this conflict has been to subordinate the rule of law to the rule of charity, as if the two are in conflict.
The pastoral solution makes law, which looks to the good of the whole – thus its concern with scandal – subordinate to pastoral concern with the plight of individuals, ignoring the problem of scandal.
All this began with the “pastoral solutions” to problems in the late 1960s and early 1970s, such as Catholics massively practicing contraception, and divorced Catholics remarrying. The same problems are with us today, and, unfortunately, the same proposals for resolving them.
The “new” proposal regarding reception of Holy Communion by divorce/remarried Catholics by allowing them to follow their own conscience simply extends “the pastoral solution” applied to contraception. The hierarchy, generally, “solved” this problem either by silence, allowing social norms to displace the Church’s moral authority, or by suggesting that Catholics follow their own consciences….
To read the entire Catholic Thing posting, click here.
” He (the Pope) is, in his own subtle way, quite critical of the lack of openness in the Church as governed by his predecessors and seems super confident that he has the right stuff to finally accomplish this GOAL of OPENNESS to MODERN CULTURE”.:
“The Council Fathers knew that being open to modern culture meant religious ecumenism and dialogue with non-believers. But afterwards very little was done in that direction. I have the humility and ambition to want to do something. ” – Pope Francis.
It is NOT Pastoral, Charitable, or Merciful to confirm or condone Mortal Sin of any kind.
In order to obtain God’s mercy, one must “GO and SIN NO MORE” – Jesus.
Repentance is REQUIRED.
Anyone who thinks he is smarter than JESUS has a severe ego problem of PRIDE (one of the Capital Sins).
Read a Catholic Bible, and the CCC folks or you will be so confused you will not know right from wrong.
The devil loves confusion.
In the history of the Catholic Church of the 267 Popes, there have been 12 morally corrupt Popes. 80 have been canonized Saints.
Included in these 12 were: Pope Alexander VI, who was a Borgia and fathered several illegitimate children including Lucrezia, and who was known for nepotism bribery, deceit, debauchery, etc. Also Benedict IX who was an open playboy.
Just because someone was elected Pope does not make him a saint, nor make him always correct.
Look at the sins of the Apostles, the worst of which was Judas Iscariot.
OSCAR, I am confused by this. Are you saying that Pope Francis is morally corrupt? Could you please provide some evidence of that?
“Anonymous”: You are not confused, at all. Instead, you use a tired debater’s trick of deflecting the main issue by inventing something the opponent never said, such as even a suggestion that Francis was personally corrupt. In fact, Francis could well be a truly terrible Pope (and he gives every indication that this will be the case), but not be morally corrupt.
Was Paul VI corrupt because, against wide opposition, he imposed the Novus Ordo Mass on the Catholic world? Of course not. Recall, as well, that Paul VI also gave us “Humanae Vitae” which is a sterling example of the Holy Ghost in the Church. Francis is a Latin, and a true child of Vatican II training and leadership. His world view, as seen from his constant stacking of the deck against Tradition, is that of the Liberal priest, anti-authoritarian, anti-Medieval Church, all of that. No one has argued that Francis fathers illegitimate children; but he does give all indication of using general concepts like “love” and “mercy” and such to create all kinds of destruction in the meaning of Catholic practice and its mission of salvation.
In fact, although he is likely not up to knowing it, the things that Francis seems to cherish lead to a central question: “What good then, to a Modernist, is the Catholic Church to Mankind”? You see, by dis-assembling core Catholic beliefs, the Pope is saying that everyone carries within themselves the means to salvation, which is objectively untrue, unless you are Martin Luther (and the hundreds of other Protestant sect founders since the Reformation). As one writer recently put it, Francis seems to want us all to be Episcopalian.
The crisis in the Church is because too many Bishops have not done their teaching jobs.
When was the last time your Bishop and your Parish Priests told you to read the
Bible and the Catechism of the Catholic Church at home ? ? ? :(
Ecumenism must start with EDUCATION from within.
People can not spread the Gospel when they do not know what the Gospels state.
Without education they only spread error and relativism. And so far we have heard little from the Pope or Cardinals attending the Synod about their own sins of omission.
Why doesn’t the Pope try to throw out Holy Scripture (Bible),
and the CCC so we can all be – – – – “OPEN to modern CULTURE ?
Under his direction, it appears that PASTORALLY ANYTHING GOES –
defying the Words of Jesus in the Bible,
defying St. Paul in the Bible,
and defying previous Popes and Doctors of the Church
.
After all, he is humble and knows everything. That is why he appointed heretical Cardinals (and some others) to be main speakers at the Synod. (Everyone else only gets 4 minutes to speak.)
The Church of Pope Francis !
Not the Church of Jesus who requires repentance.
The following passages need to be read:
Mt 7:13-14; Lk 13:23-28
2 Peter 2:1-22
CCC: ” 81 Sacred Scripture is the speech of God as it is put down in writing under the breath of the Holy Spirit.”
“And [Holy] Tradition transmits in its entirety the Word of God which has been entrusted to the apostles by Christ the Lord and the Holy Spirit.
It transmits it to the successors of the apostles so that, enlightened by the Spirit of truth, they may faithfully preserve, expound and spread it abroad by their preaching.”
The truly humble man doesn’t make himself singular.
The entire spirit of this article is one of attack. It has a Protestant spirit, seeking to sow doubt and create dissension. It reflects a stunning arrogance and lack of Catholic unity. This thinking is not of God, is not of our Lord Jesus Christ, is not Catholic. What a terrible thing to find this article in a so called Catholic web site.
Emma, there are numerous Catholic articles from those reporting on the Synod.
Including reports directly from the Vatican.
They are the truth. Read before you condemn others.
Truth is important.
What do you know of what Emma has read, Della? I agree with her that there is an anti-Catholic tone here, masquerading as fidelity to the Magisterium, while absurdly criticizing the teachings of his Holiness. It’s ludicrous that you don’t see it.
Emma please provide a link to any Vatican article where the Synod is encouraged to talk about SIN and the requirement for REPENTANCE.
I have not been able to find any.
Anne why is that the criteria that we need to follow. Is there some canon law somewhere that requires synods to talk about sin and repentance? Why not talk about grace, love, and mercy? Because it doesn’t talk about sin, you think it is illegitimate? Really?
Many Bishops have been talking about love and mercy for the last 40 years, and look at the mess the Church is in.
One can not gain grace if they are in the state of Mortal Sin, no matter what they do.
There is no mercy without repentance and doing our best not to commit those sins again. Jesus said so.
By your logic, Emma, it was divisive of St. Paul to warn of the dangers of those who come to teach a false gospel while garbed as an Angel of Light. If error can be introduced via the masque of an Angel, why not a hierarchy increasingly professed in courting the world?
The Church is Our Lord’s Mystical Body, just just the hierarchy. While not saying so outright, your position hints at a clericalism which was the downfall of the Pharisees. Authority for the sake of authority, not the upholding or welcoming of Truth.
But then it was just such a hierarchy who should have accepted Truth, that crucified Him, much like the hierarchy now is attempting to crucify those intent on following Christ and any upholding of Truth. That is REALITY.
So expect more of this ‘terrible thing’ on so called Catholic websites, for speaking Truth is inherently Catholic despite the Pharisaical silencing attempts which are nothing more than a Divine chastisement. But no excuse to follow along – do what they say (that is follow God’s laws), but do not do as ‘they’ do -twist and distend Truth in order to crucify it on a one-size-fits-all cross.
And you, Ann, are going to appoint yourself the judge of Pope Francis? As though you are St. Paul? Your hubris appalls.
We’ll trip, some of us haven’t lost the ability to discern right and wrong, truth from falsehood . Unfortunately we’re being asked to follow someone who feels he’s unqualified to make those judgements. It’s a definite first , if I’m not mistaken. But the world thinks that just terrific, surprise surprise! Men having sex with men is a no-brainer…I don’t even have to wade through all the “nuances” of judgement calls on that one. Alcoholics for example, don’t form manipulative and coercive organizations to change society’s laws on drunk driving and minors’ drinking restrictions.
I’m certain this issue is a no-brainer for you, Anonymous. I suspect every decision you make is a no-brainer.
Your clericalism and tactics are anything but appalling, but rather typical,”Trip”. For what should be horrifying – the mangling and distortion of Truth – has become the norm via desensitization. (Yes no longer means yes and no, well, let’s get creative!)
So march on shouting, “Crucify” and make sure the hierarchy hears you, too. Work the crowd while you’re at it, gagging those who say no to Barabbas. You don’t want to get called out like St. John for not following along and standing by the cross instead. (What hubris! And beside the Blessed Virgin, too. That should have been St. Peter. The nerve of some people.)
St. Paul didn’t “judge” St. Peter, Trip. He discerned bad policy and called St. Peter on it. That’s not judging someone, rather a policy. And that is the same today. Nobody can judge Pope Francis, except perhaps a future Pope. That’s not the point. This isn’t personal.
That said, how would you respond to St. Paul’s directive regarding the rejection of a different gospel? Does that concern you? Would it concern you if Church ‘policy’ were shifted to negate the words of Our Lord on marriage?
The Popes public actions, public statements, and appointees speak for themselves.
Emma there can be no “Catholic” unity when some support and confirm people in their Mortal Sins, and reject or refuse to discuss the need for repentance.
You are a faithful Pharisee, keenly aware of others sins, and ever so happy to point them out.
Trip, please do not call Jesus a Pharisee. He was the One who said to Go and Sin NO More. Jn 8:11;
Jesus also told us to repent.
Why are you against the requirement Jesus gave us – to sin no more and to repent ?
You are the one who is not Catholic, or not even Christian.
Repent…and believe the Good News.
The Pope has never supported and confirmed people in their mortal sins.
What’s your news, Anonymous? Sin has been abolished and now it’s all good?
Ann Malley, it’s Mark 1:15. So the Good News is the Gospel.
Maybe you haven’t heard the Good News, Ann Malley? Christ came and died to abolish sin – yours and mine. By his resurrection, he has conquered death, which has no more power over us.
Yes, but one must correspond with the message – and that requires action on the part of the individual, YFC. Free will is a real boogie boo.
Like signing the contract in order to reap the benefits of it.
Yes, by the grace of Baptism, renewed in the Sacrament of Holy Eucharist. Have you not heard of the wonders of our Lord?
A grace that can be and is often lost by rejecting God’s grace, YFC. The wonders of Our Lord does not negate free will and the consequences thereof despite what you may want to believe..even if you hold hands. Sorry.
Since his installation as Pope, Francis I have heard very little need for a call to repent and convert, if at all. No your private conscience will NOT get you to heaven
“Your Fellow Catholic”: You know that your arguments are wrong and are intended to mislead. Christ gave his life “for many” not for all (although he came into the world in order that all might be saved).
People– Catholics — will die in their sins and go to Hell. There is no question of this conclusion. Francis and the Catholic Liberals (including many bishops) appear to want to eliminate a Church that points out sin, and the need for repentance, and to amend lives. Living by conscience alone, and trusting only to Christ’s sacrifice, will not do it if a person continues to live in sin. This was Martin Luther’s great heresy: Christ dies once for sins, we are wretched but will be saved even though we sin. He simply discarded great bits of the Bible and the Church to focus on his core beliefs.
Talk all you want about “Love” and “Mercy”, but without taking up your cross and carrying it, no one gets to Heaven. Francis and his pal bishops need to take care; they cannot urge “mercy” as an answer to winking at sinful behavior, like homosexual sex: always a mortal sin, each and every time. And, yes, adultery continues to be a sin, regardless of what the Synod says. People may be surprised, but it certainly appears that Francis and Dolan and all the rest want to do much more than stress “mercy” — they wish to re-write the Church’s core doctrines.
The problem is that Catholic “unity” is really only a shell or maybe even simply a “show.” More than 50% of American Catholics support gay marriage; 80% or more have practiced contraception. Belief in the Real Presence? Not so much. The vast, vast majority of Catholics don’t actually hold the beliefs of the Catholic Church; in the Church’s long past, if you didn’t chose to hold Catholic beliefs, that made you a heretic. But today, it’s not a problem at all. Anyone who points out what’s actually going on is labelled “divisive” because they are disrupting the humongous “let’s pretend” game.
This is why the Synod is being held.
There will be NO UNITY as long as the Words of Jesus are ignored by high ranking Clergy.
Jesus comes first.
One must repent of his sins, and do his best to sin no more.
Amen, Sam! That being said, it’s pretty obvious why a synod seems necessary, no? It would appear that it’s become unkind and mean to think people can have enough self discipline to control their behaviors!
A CALL to REPENTANCE –
Sirach 17:25-27; Psalm 51:1 -15
JESUS – ” and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent, and believe in the gospel.” Mk 1:15
When JESUS taught us to pray (Lord’s Prayer) – “forgive us our sins”.
1) When Pope Francis told young people to “Make a Mess” did that mean to sow CONFUSION ?
2) Why is the Pope’s Synod NEGLECTING to speak on the need for REPENTANCE of sins ?
3) Is the Synod refusing to acknowledge sin, since the Pope’s goal to is “to be open to the modern world” ?
Ya know, Joe, condemning the Pope and the Synod for not talking about sin is a bit like condemning Jesus for the same thing after he delivered the Beatitudes.
Some of the Pope’s chosen speakers at the Synod – (Kasper & Danneels) support continuing in mortal sin,
and no need to repent prior to receiving the Eucharist.
The Pope, Cardinals and Bishops should all be SHOUTING from the rooftops –
1) No Heaven without REPENTANCE; evil doers will burn in Hell for eternity without repentance.
“Go and Sin no more” – Jesus
2) Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me.” – Jn 14:6
Anything else is spawned by the devil.
I thought the Pope was infallible. I guess only if you agree with him.
Nope, the Pope is a sinner just like everyone else.
Even the 12 Apostles were sinners.
In the history of the Church we have had 11 or 12 really corrupt Popes.
If you want to know about the true teaching on ‘infallibility’ and what is required, read the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition”.
Pope Francis has made NO infallible statements since he took office on March 13, 2013.
You can also review the posted information on the Vatican web site.
What I find stunning about most of the comments posted on this site, is a complete lack of humility. No one comes to this site to learn anything. No, everyone thinks they already have all the answers, and needs to put anyone who disagrees with them in their place. Without humility, no one can learn anything, no one can become a better person. Perhaps, even though you disagree with the Pope about many, many things, he can still teach you something.
And what truth has Pope Francis taught you that you did not already know ?
Those of us who read the Bible and CCC – have a good handle on the Truth of our Faith.
Susan, your comments prove Martha’s point: “what truth has Pope Francis taught you that you did not already know?” No sense of humility, no sense that there might be more to the faith then what you might immediately understand.
Martha, when Pope Francis (or any Pope) deviates from or rejects the teaching of Jesus and His Church’s Traditional teaching, he can expect DISUNITY because that is what he deserves.
It is not merciful to assist in sending Souls to Hell.
It is not charitable to assist in sending Souls to Hell.
It is not pastoral to assist in sending Souls to Hell.
I really agree with you.
The thing that strikes me is the attitude of “there is one who is not like me…Sic ’em.”
It is humble, Martha, to repeat the truth that one has received. For there is nothing humble in changing that which cannot be changed as if man invented it.
That’s why it is so odd to have a Holy Father be so dismissive of what has come before…almost hostile. For while that may make him seem ‘humble’ to those outside the Church, it makes those inside the Church, those who appreciate the whys and wherefores behind tradition – and I’m not talking clericalism or bureaucracy – wonder what he is about.
One who honestly has a “modest or low view of one’s own importance” or “unasssertiveness” doesn’t take high office and then act as if they are the first of their kind or ‘the’ one to fix it all with an authoritarian style that staggers and confuses.
I cannot imagine anyone taking too kindly to a new boss at their company who came in and set about changing everything and criticizing everything from day one. I doubt such a one would be considered humble. Even if he dressed like Gandhi.
That said, the Holy Father is teaching Catholics the necessity of learning the Faith.
I really object to people lying about the Holy Father.
Are you saying the Pope doesn’t want us to learn the Faith, Anonymous?
Martha, we are learning from Pope Francis. He said he is “humble” and we are following his example.
And what has he taught you, since he has been Pope ?
A person who is truly humble, does not tell people he or she is humble!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts!
May God have mercy on an amoral Amerika!
Viva Cristo Rey!
Kenneth M. Fisher
Kenneth, I have always taken great pride my humility! :)
No, they don’t Kenneth…they are always ‘umble and fold their hands very piously.
One of the things that Pope Francis has done is remind us that our road to heaven is a journey. All of the people I have known who are truly spiritual have said they are on a journey. Each Sunday, some more often, we hear a homily about the meaning of the day’s readings and how they can help us get to the next milestone in our lives. It is a journey. True faith comes along the way. It is not something that is dumped into our brains and considered the end of what we need to know. I think of the Lexio Divina (sic) way of reading the Bible. We read a passage several times, alone, in our small groups, and then together. Each person chooses one word in the passage, or one phrase, that has special meaning for them. It is part of the journey. When we read the Catechism, which is really a reference book, what word pops out? Our faith journey isn’t about rules, it is about becoming holier today than yesterday. Tomorrow we will be holier than today perhaps. The Synod in Rome this week heard a lot about gradualism. About how people gradually come to know Christ better, gradually come to profess the faith. For all of us, in truth, it will take a lifetime to get where we want our faith to be when we meet God. If someone doesn’t agree with all the teachings of the Church, they may not know them, or haven’t reached a point on their journey where they agree. It doesn’t mean they are bad people. Just people trying to know Christ and taking longer than some to do it. But, they are on a journey. Wish them well.
Bob One: Gradualism is what came after Vatican II. The progressives and liberals piece by piece have gradually dismantled the Church to the point there is no unity and total confusion. They have gradually taken away so much from what the Church used to be that people in this generation have no idea what has been taken away from them since Vatican II. I am 49 years old and I cannot believe what I have seen in my lifetime that has been taken from us. So, gradualism is NOT a good thing, It is very deceiving!
Yes, Bob, since Christ and all the apostles, faith was shown to be a journey…actually, throughout the Bible, most especially the Exodus! But most journeys, like St Paul’s and Abraham’s begin with an encounter with God. Faith for many begins with a life changing and heart-melting meeting where it is love at first ‘sight’. We love Him because He first loved us. We’re given clear maps and instructions as CS Lewis points out . Unfortunately, many of our leaders are trying to get us to take the highway to SanFrancisco rather than the ladder to Heaven…it’s always best to use primary resources , like the Bible, the CCC and the writings of the saints and Church Fathers. Bon voyage! :)
Bob One, are you calling all of our recent Popes John Paul II, Benedict XVi, and Francis liars ?
They have all told us to read the Bible and study the CCC.
The CCC was promulgated by Apostolic Constitution and contains the Doctrine of the Faith.
To see quotes from our Popes about the CCC –
go to “What Catholics REALLY Believe SOURCE”
https://whatcatholicsreallybelieve.com/
Amen.
Many modern Church leaders are uncomfortable with Christ’s Truth, and evangelization of it! A true Christian is NOT afraid– instead, they welcome opportunities to evangelize, and bring others to Christ! The world has always been “fallen,” and in error, since the days of Adam and Eve! The “Good News,” is that Christ came, to teach us, to save us, and to die for our sins! Will our Church leaders be thrilled, to shepherd eager, devout Catholics– and to also lead non-Catholics, to Christ? When a coach leads his sports team– just what does he require, and how hard is it? Does he have the enthusiasm, courage, and motivation, to lead his team over all challenges— to VICTORY?? The grace of God also carries eager followers of Christ, to success– we are not alone! A long time ago– great saints went into deep prayer, to ask God how to lead a pagan, barbaric country to Christ. The saints also risked martyrdom! Are our modern Church leaders willing to ask God to lead, in prayer– and also risk martyrdom?? How motivated are they– for Christ??
Pope Francis has the right attitude for this critical time in our church. He is not harsh or dogmatic and is looking at the genuine divine worth of each human being behind each Catholic, penitent, etc. He will, and is, upholding the truths of our church, but in a manner that looks to the individual instead of the punitive approach long dominate in the Church. He wants us to pray, think, reflect, act out our Christian faith, and particupate in life, but to never forget the human element.in all that we do. Yes, this is the right attiude to take at this time in Church history. It is a shift toward the Vatican II model of faith and away from the Pope John Paul II and Benedict model. Their model was not wrong, but very limiting.
Utter nonsense, he has not once called for repentance of sin, never once to urging to carry our crosses,
Jesus never gave the impression that any sin was ok.
He never changed His teaching to accommodate un-believers.
Jesus said repentance is required.
It is sinful to presume that one can be saved without repentance for their sins, with a firm purpose of amendment not to commit those sins again.
Truth does not change. Something is either a sin or it isn’t. If it was a sin in 1AD, it is a sin in 2014AD.
Like lending money, slavery, and stoning a woman for not being a virgin, right John?
Jesus said there is no forgiveness (mercy) without repentance.
It’s insidious how those who wouldn’t know Truth if He was standing right in front of them purport to refute those who DO recognize Him by using transient cultural norms to say “gotcha’! Yes, it was a ‘norm’ to do all those things anonymous (another name for quivering jelly) mentions in all the cultures of Jesus’ day. Are those norms now? Why not? Because the world was transformed by TRUTH which is not a thing but a person. “I am the way, the truth and the life”. That sort of ruse you use is not just sneaky, dishonest and thoroughly reprehensible but a favorite ploy of democrats.
To Anonymous Says: In your make believe religion apparently the truth changes. As Malcomb Muggeridge said when he was moderating a debate between persons representing both Eastern and Western religions, “I either had eggs this morning for breakfast or I didn’t”. Truth does not change!
The sad thing to me is that at a time when there are so many confused Catholics we are now being led by someone that causes so much confusion. It seems like every time he makes a statement the bloggers are coming out of the woodwork to explain what he said. I want the HF to make clear what he says so I don”t need people with so many opinions to explain it to me. I love and support the HF, but I think he is hurting the Church right now. I still miss Benedict sixteen.
To answer the question several people asked, Pope Francis has taught me that people are more willing to listen to what you have to say if you exude joy and energy. No one wants to emulate someone who is sour. I think he will say more in the way of teaching after he has established a connection to people. Most people in the world are not going to believe what he says simply because he is the Pope. Those are the people he wants to reach. My guess is he doesn’t want to preach to the choir, he wants to preach to the people who wouldn’t normally care about what the Pope says. So wait, and see, he might just cause the conversion of souls you are speaking of.
Martha, the Pope needs preach to the choir.
Far too many Catholics do not read the Bible and the CCC. These Catholics do not know their faith accurately and are subject to relativism, and near occasions of sin.
The Pope cannot neglect their Souls.
The Pope should not confuse his own sheep by his public statements.
Approving or condoning, or affirming anyone in any Mortal sin is not pastoral, or merciful, or charitable since un-repented mortal sins send souls to Hell for eternity.
Further, anyone who condones, affirms, or approves of another’s mortal sins is a remote participant, and therefore aids and abets in that sin.
CCC: ” 1868 Sin is a personal act. Moreover, we have a responsibility for the sins committed by others when we cooperate in them:
– by participating directly and voluntarily in them;
– by ordering, advising, praising, or approving them;
– by not disclosing or not hindering them when we have an obligation to do so;
– by protecting evil-doers.”
CCC: ” 2285 Scandal takes on a particular gravity by reason of the authority of those who cause it or the weakness of those who are scandalized.
It prompted our Lord to utter this curse: “Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened round his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.”
Scandal is grave when given by those who by nature or office are obliged to teach and educate others.
Thanks Maddie. Well said. Every time i read the CCC I always feel comforted and reassured, don’t you?
Martha, when you teach your children not to put their hands on a hot stove burner, you do not do it joyfully or with a smile on your face,
because that would be misinterpreted – sending mixed signals.
Mortal sins are very serious matters.
A good Father teaches, corrects, and disciplines when necessary.
He does not send mixed signals to his children.
When his own children are exhibiting harmful behavior a good Father does not go across the street to teach other children first.
Pope Francis needs to reprimand his Cardinals and Bishops for not encouraging the literate to read the Bible and CCC at home.
The Pope needs to get the Church members in order first, with straight forward and clear teaching directly out of the Bible and CCC.
There will be no unity within the Church without a good leader who requires truth and holiness from each of us.
Can anyone here tell us just who and what was clamoring for this “Synod on the Family”? Is it the same crowd that was clamoring for Vatican Council II?
May God have Mercy on an amoral Amerika and His Church!
Viva Cristo Rey!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher,
Hopefully!
Do you want the same wonderful results Bob One, the reason this Synod has been called is because the Cardinals and Bishop have failed to preach the moral teachings of the Church for the past 50 years. Now, they are reaping the results of their neglect and incompetence. The Church is crumbling let it crumble a Faithful remnant will be there to rebuild and it will not be the “spirit of Vatican 2” types. Bob One can you or any other liberal admit that the results of the failed Vatican 2 council are just that… FAILURE
Methinks they be dead.
Martha, thank you for your ‘nice’ response. It was a favorite maxim of Howdy Doodie and Kermit the Frog too. Always, always, always be really nice!! Jesus was crucified because there were really an awful lot of people who thought He wasn’t nice at all! In fact, they thought He was quite wicked. Many saints were pretty unpopular too…St. Jerome and St. Catherine of Sienna come to mind. She actually told a pope he stank…that she could smell him all the way to Rome. Some saints were very sweet, like St. Therese, the Little Flower, or St Francis of Assissi…but it’s not so much about being sweet or sour but being a true follower of Christ. It’s NOT about seeking the approval of the world but of God. The reason so much of the secular world despises Pope Benedict VI is his unwavering faithfulness to Christ, though what they saw was a ‘rigid and judgmental curmudgeon’. To many Catholics he is sweetness personified. It is the Holy Spirit who converts souls. It is our prayers that help…not our personalities…unless you’re Joel Osteen, naturally. :)
…Joel Osteen is scary, Dana. Shivers up the spine. But the imagery is spot on as usual.
ISO agree Anne! Is there a male equivalent of a Stepford Wife? It’s as if he were a robot or an alien’s take on what a human looks like without the soul.
Martha: The Pope is NOT saving souls or bringing them to Christ if he does not admonish them in their sins and tell them to go and sin no more. Do you realize what a scandal it was for the Church when Pope Francis married all those couples and they did not go to confession and repent? He brought God’s judgment to their souls and to himself. It was sacrilegious! How are examples like this and other things Pope Francis has done brought people to the Church? It hasn’t. It has brought the Church scandal! Pope Francis: “Who am I to judge?” Answer: You are the Pope and you are to judge the actions of people that cause Church scandal and confusion among the flock!
It appears that you do not really follow Pope Francis too closely.
How do you know they did not go to confession or repent?
Please find a better source of information.
The devil is really after this Pope.
RR,
I am no blind defender of the present pontiff; however, do you know that these couples were not required to go to Confession first?
May God have Mercy on an amoral Amerika and His Church!
Viva Cristo Rey!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
No, Kenneth and anonymous. I have not heard one thing about the sacrament of Confession. That is the problem. One would think that if the Pope heard their Confession he would have announced this very important Sacrament to the world. He DID NOT! He caused a scandal by not letting this information be known. Therefore, one can only seem to come to the conclusion that they did not go to confession. And IF these couples did go to Confession, do you really think that they are truly sorry for what they did? Some, maybe. In order to be forgiven there has to be sorrow. Don’t tell me that some of these couples will no longer contracept. Hopefully, the Pope told them that contraception too is mortally sinful. Hopefully the Pope has told these couples that they cannot receive Holy Communion if they continue to use birth control or it will be a sacrilege. The Pope definitely needs to make this information known. And Anonymous, I do actually follow this Pope closely. Do some internet research on him, IF YOU DARE!
Kenneth, I do not know whether these people repented of their sins or not.
But – CCC: ” 1446 Christ instituted the sacrament of Penance for all sinful members of his Church: above all for those who, since Baptism, have fallen into grave sin, and have thus lost their baptismal grace and wounded ecclesial communion.
It is to them that the sacrament of Penance offers a new possibility to convert and to recover the grace of justification.
The Fathers of the Church present this sacrament as “the second plank [of salvation] after the shipwreck which is the loss of grace.”
There is no grace for those who do not repent, and choose to continue living in the state of Mortal Sin.
I agree RR…the pope’s “who am I to judge” quip has given license to untold numbers of sinners. The tenuous authority of Church teaching in a secular world was shaken to its very core. It seems to be all about the pope and not the Church or even Jesus.
“…people are more willing to listen to what you have to say if you exude joy and energy. No one wants to emulate someone who is sour.”
Sounds like a Dale Carnegie methodology, Martha, steeped in empty praise and ‘positive thinking’. That said, folks seeking Truth can scent false fronts from halfway across the world. Christ didn’t lure with a honey approach.
Recasting an adherence to truth as somehow being sour is a mistake. For what to do when the hard truths are spoken as they must be? A for ’emulation’ we are to emulate Christ. Charitable, yes, but always honest and a straight shooter.
I would imagine many would now label Christ as ‘sour’ because he told the woman at the well that the man she was with wasn’t her husband, because he told the woman caught in adultery to go and sin no more, and because he spoke very clearly about what constitutes adultery. Servants MUST emulate their Master. Otherwise they are no longer true servants – are they.
So you are willing to die for all those Dale Carnegie types, the gay people who want the Church to change it’s teaching, the ecumenicals who connect with Buddhists, Hindus and (gasps) Protestants, the child molesters, the abortionists?
Glad to hear it.
I pray, if God called me to it, that I would have the strength of grace to die for my fellow man, Anonymous. At present, however, I’m working with the grace given to speak the Truth when I can despite the open hostility and ingratitude and personal attacks it foments in folks like yourself.
God bless.
But you don’t speak the Truth at all. I am sorry to be ungrateful for your bombastic posts. Considering your hostility to the Holy Church, I think most people have been pretty nice to you.
Your estimation of what is nice holds no merit whatever, mous. You play the part of Pilate too often to be taken seriously.
…you are also not following the precepts of the Holy Father, mous, seeking instead to bash and castigate and silence instead of looking for the good. You’re not being humble either as you are intimating that there is ‘no truth’ instead of looking at your own errors in judgment and open hostility to a person when you should be focusing on the content of the message.
Ann Malley, I have compassion for you, really, I do. I realize it isn’t fun to come onto the internet and hear that you are wrong all the time-and not just in some of your religious beliefs but in many other areas as well. Do you recognize how you are inviting that reaction?
Also, I do not believe there is no truth, as you falsely accuse me of. You are wrong on that. I believe that Jesus Christ is Truth and the Holy Catholic Church is His Mystical Body, given the task of preserving all Truth, upholding all Truth, and teaching all Truth The Church is the True Voice of God. You have often tried to undermine the Church on this website. This website does not prevent those who mislead from posting. It is up to us to correct and admonish those who do. (which we should stop and let the website be 100% responsible for what it publishes.) You manipulate the teachings of the Church and the Pope to try to con us into letting you post your heretical views without protest. You have been so nasty that most people leave you alone. You belittle, demean and deceive. Now, as for the content of your message. Your post was all about you. My response was all about you. I am not hostile. Perhaps I am too blunt.
Mous, you do me much credit. Your understanding and personal attention is all the confirmation I need that my observations with regard to the Church are accurate enough or else you wouldn’t take them so personally.
To be blunt, you have no response. Because frankly there is no legitimate response you can make as there is a definite, ongoing crisis within the Church. Trying to cover that up is the con job.
That said, you really may want to readdress Fr. Bob B’s suggestion to just avoid for sanity’s sake. Continually engaging will only leave you open to having to view more and more of what is actually there, instead of what you are being told is ‘just a story’. Even reading CCD must send you into a tailspin.
But all things work toward the good for those who LOVE God. So be well. Stay well. No doubt the Pharisees thought Our Lord was mean and nasty to them as well. But as God is in charge, even in so far as allowing evil to appear triumphant, all will be well. The Church, the Bride, will survive although for a time, like Her Spouse, She may appear dead and buried.
God bless.
I didn’t expect contrition and humility from you.
But now you want to justify yourself by reference to some imaginary crisis in the Church.
Well, it isn’t too hard to save people from something that isn’t even going on, is it?
Good job.
She appears dead and buried to you because you don’t go to a Catholic Church. You will never really understand the times going to a traditionalist sect’s Mass. You don’t even get the graces that those of us who receive the Lord in licit Masses get. When you abandon the Mother, you abandon the Son.
Keep making yourself feel better, mous, or should say, mice. If you don’t believe there is a crisis in the Church, you must not be reading any of the articles on CCD upon which you comment so regularly.
“…You don’t even get the graces that those of us who receive the Lord in licit Masses get.” Getting graces is not the same as corresponding with said graces, mous. You may want to focus on how you’re corresponding with God’s grace instead of how much you believe you’re receiving when compared to others.
Ann Malley, you can belittle me. You can judge me.
It will never make what you believe orthodox and it will never make the Mass that you participate in licit.
Facts are facts.
As for there being a crisis in the Church based on the writings on CCD:
I don’t have to rely on CCD for news about the Church because I attend the Church and I have lots of other sources of information about the Church. I am not limited to what a INTERNET website who highlights negative gossip about some INDIVIDUALS who are Catholic.
This does not constitute a crisis in the Church but if you really think it does: please tell us what era in the history of the Catholic Church did NOT have a “crisis”.
Anonymous, you’re belittling yourself and your position by your own posts. The only one seemingly hung up on ‘licit’ is you. And you mistake reality if you believe that the crisis in the Church is only the imaginings of those who rely only on the internet and so called gossip.
Choose your battles, mous.
If you are confident where you are – great. God bless you. But your persistence in making our interactions somehow personal is your downfall. At least in your efforts to do whatever it is you’re attempting to do outside of hijacking threads by way of personal attack.
Be well.
To Anon cont…
If you cannot discern that there is a major crisis in the Church when those in the hierarchy are actually promoting giving Holy Communion to those in an ongoing state of unrepentant adultery, then you may not have read the following from the CCC:
675 Before Christ’s second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers. The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth will unveil the “mystery of iniquity” in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth. The supreme religious deception is that of the Antichrist, a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and of his Messiah come in the flesh.576
****Note that the ‘religious deception’ involves an apostasy from the truth motivated by an attempt to offer man a solution to his problems.****
If denying Christ’s words on what constitutes adultery so as to be ‘more merciful’ than Jesus Himself doesn’t alert you to our current problem, there is nothing more to say.
Ann Malley: mous says, “This does not constitute a crisis in the Church but if you really think it does: please tell us what era in the history of the Catholic Church did NOT have a “crisis”.” Mous contradicts himself. He admits there IS a “crisis” in the Church. First he claims there is no “crisis” but in this quote he says otherwise. I guess we are living in that “era” that supposedly doesn’t have a “crisis” even though there has never been an “era” where there wasn’t a “crisis.” I cannot understand how Catholics of this “era” put there head in the sand and their fingers in there ears and say, “Lalalalalala.” and pretend major issues do not exist. It is so mind blowing to me. You are correct when you say, “there is nothing more to say.” Only through the grace of God will people wake up and see the MAJOR crisis going on in the Church today. All we can really do is pray and pray hard for the Pope.
Thanks for your post, RR. And thank God for the graces you have received – even if they didn’t seem like it at the time – that have led you to ‘see’. I’ve no doubt that Anonymous sees the contradiction within his/her own posts, much like the contradictions of Fr. Bob B whose only recourse was to obedience – because that is the only so called trump card that can be pulled when blatant contradictions present themselves. Like the classic, “Because I said so!” spouting from the mouth of a frustrated parent who knows what they are asking/imposing is inconsistent with what they should be doing.
As to the rest, Christ was persecuted by his own, those who should have welcomed Him as the fulfillment of the law. As to Catholics ‘in this era’, the explanation, to me, is they have been formed that way. Much like a child who is reared in an objectively disordered situation, they come to believe that that which is not right must be right because that is all they know.
That said, it is precisely the GRACE of God that is required. Something in which I hope the hierarchy puts more faith in instead of pandering to decaying moral values which, in truth, have been present since the beginning.
Either you have faith or you don’t.
Naive, Anonymous.
Ann Malley,I’d rather be naive in the House of the Lord that sophisticated any where else.
Martha,
Have you ever heard or read about St. Padre Pio? He was often very hard on hardened sinners, and he brought many of them to repentance, including Communist KGB Colonels!
May God have Mercy on an amoral Amerika and His Church!
Viva Cristo Rey!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
The Synod is about homosexual perversions, contraception, and euthanasia. Slippery slope on these liberal-dominated time. Like 1964.
I’m like a sinful mary magdalen at the feet of her Redeemer:
This was, “The First Synod of the Great Apostasy.”
Period. Full Stop.
None of you actualy seemed to read what I wrote at all, or else you just managed to miss the point entirely. The stove analogy is a good one. The reason my children listen to me when I tell them not to touch a hot stove, is that I’ve established a loving relationship with them, so they trust me. I’m pretty sure all of you will not understand this either, but I tried.
Jesus also instructed us to go and sin no more; and that repentance is required.
The Synod needs to keep Jesus in mind.
Martha, I trust my next door neighbor, but not with my Soul.
You did not answer the question, do you tell your children with JOY- a smile on your face when you discipline them to keep them out of danger.
Martha, you have a good handle on the Pope’s intentions, it seems to me. Folks forget that one of the titles for Christ himself is that of The Good Shephard. Although protestants cling to that title more than most catholics, almost all the imagery and symbolism of the Bishop (including the Bishop of Rome) is that of a Shephard. Just start with the crosier! The Bishop’s staff is to nudge and coral the flock in unity. It is not an ax ready to behead any of the sheep who step out of line. Fraternal correction by Bishop or Pope is far more faithful to that image than the condemnatory tone advocated by some.
A Good Shepard leads His Flock to God.
He does not lead His flock to danger (by approving, condoning or affirming them in sin.)
Correct. But the Pope has not approved of sin. You seem to have been listening to a different Pope than the rest of us.
Having a loving relationship with those in authority doesn’t prevent acting out, Martha. If only it did.
My children love me dearly, but one just had to touch the iron, palm flat, before she *believed* that it was hot enough to burn. When asked why – she was 11 years old at the time – the simple statement was because she wanted to, to find out how hot, hot really was.
The other children received a lesson from the requisite admonishment and the horrible blister. Tough love is often the most tender and effective. Thank God for consequences – they are a blessing in disguise. Even the consequence of my 11 year old loosing her standing with her younger siblings.
The only thing this story proves is that you are not a very effective teacher.
No, an effective teacher will prevent all sin and error and experimentation and stifle human nature completely. Just like the Government will solve all our problems and make the United States a Heaven on earth!
By your logic, mous, Christ Himself was a bad teacher because we all sin.
God bless :)
You were idiotic enough to let a hot iron unattended around a child. You didn’t prevent sin! And now you are running around here like you are some kind of savior of the damned. You are just a bad parent.
Anonymous, I know she begs for it but there are lines one should not cross.
Oh, yes, Anonymous, a mother idiotic enough to leave a hot iron around an 11 year old. No wonder you don’t expect adults to behave like adults – you’re hard wired to believe there nobody is ever responsible for the stupid things they do.
An 11 year old should be learning to iron. Much like adults should be taking responsibility for bad choices. That’s called learning.
That said, if you feel yourself to be damned, that is your affair. I am most definitely not your savior. No matter what you think I may be ‘like’.
Well, no one can argue with that, Martha. If all we did was say no to our children they would indeed be dysfunctional and not amenable to any degree of relationships. But what we’re doing here is debating. In debate there shouldn’t be personal attacks or lying, etc but there has to be someplace for people to discuss their fears, various experiences etc. I know we must come across as judgmental and unloving, but this is a Catholic website and basically I don’t feel it is an outreach for protestants,etc. We have many websites like that…Catholic Answers, EWTN etc. It’s only my opinion of course, but I find comfort, guidance, support and succor here, and am learning alot about how heretics, democrats et al think. Naturally I wouldn’t share anything with my protestant family that I learn or discuss here. I suppose it must be television that has made people so afraid of genuine debate…Madison Ave has manipulated the American public since tv’s inception directed at our deepest fears…of being alone (use OUR deodant!) of being unloved (let our lipstick make you desirable and sexy) or unpopular (hey, kids! Be the first on your block to have a genuine Wheaties rocket toy) . I was too busy playing outside and missed the drill. Also, my family used to have dinners that often lasted several hours as we discussed issues of the day, etc. Sometimes discussions could get quite heated. What fun. How I miss genuine free speech!
Use OUR deodorant – that’s a good one, Dana – or like the old Mick Jagger song, “He can’t be a MAN cause he doesn’t smoke the same cigarettes as me.”
This type of stuff has been our catechism for way too long. Oh, for a heated and meaty family discussion. Religion and politics!
Yes, Anne Malley! I knew you’d get it. My dad had a cigar smoking , highly intelligent friends who used to come by for a chat (my dad smoked a pipe). Oh, the table pounding and boisterous laughter…everyone had opinions back in the day, and from deliverymen to the egg lady (everyday were troops of kids, church friends, delivery people, salesmen, tramps looking for handouts, cops about my brother’s car)…endless visitors, no one left without sharing a view about the commies, or the unions or the snobby republicans etc. What’s happened to that world? Now it’s all about the latest pointless reality (???) show or inane conversations about the weather. Religion and politics!! The only things worth discussing.
My Dad got whacked over the head by an old lady Jehovah witness back in the day because – covered with grease from working on our broke down station wagon late on Saturday night – he cut the conversation to simply, “I’m Catholic and I just don’t have time for talking to you today.” The load of us needed the car fixed so we could get to mass.
And how I remember the Egg Man – we didn’t have an egg lady. That was me later on when I had my own chickens.
Even my oldest daughter, all of 22, laments about how her ‘generation’, out in the general pool, cannot seem to have a single conversation about anything important. No meat. Zip. Nothing, but blinking, wide-eyed ‘what do you mean?’ If it’s all about niceties, who cares?
Ha. Ann I love chickens too. I had one for a pet when I was small that perched on the headboard at night. Mom finally had to give her to a good home that promised she would not become Sunday dinner. As to the conversations of the young ( was that the same daughter that learned ironing the hard way? Haha) I read a letter in an advice column where a parent said her brother was complaining that her kids played on iPads at a restaurant rather than talk with adults & the columnist thought that was fine and he was being unreasonable…kids get bored w/adult conversation…and there you have it why the young can’t converse…they’ve been dumbed down so they don’t interrupt or inconvenience anyone under the guise of being kind. These yahoos giving advice should be scoured out of the stable paddock…swept out of the chicken coop! :)
Yes, Dana, my iron burner is the one who now values conversation and loathes and detests all manner of social media and video gaming. And yet my mother-in-law used to chasen me with how I should get her to stop fidgeting with the little jam packages at Elmers Pancake house because it was so inappropriate. Better to get her one of those little video things so she would keep her hands to herself and not be a bother.
Well, guess who is Granny’s favorite? Why? Because she’s smart, can hold fantastic conversation, is mature and has a broad scope of interests. She also knows how to iron!! The old ‘kids are bored with adult conversation’ translates into, we don’t want to watch our words/topics to what is morally acceptable and/or we don’t want to be bothered with having to educate the children about what precisely we are discussing. Too much work.
Love the chicken roosting on the bed post. My husband nursed a sick chicken, letter her roost in the crook of his arm. This after he fought me saying, “How could anyone want a chicken for a pet!” Indeed. He built a $1000.00 + hen house by his own design and defended our girls from a rather nasty possum. How well I remember one of the girls – one we’d reared inside for seasonal reasons – coming to the back door to be let into the ‘big coop’ at night.
Ann, your daughter sounds like a chip off the old block…bright, articulate and funny. What a joy she must be! You did the right thing, I think… Rather than curbing her curiosity you let her learn ” hands on”. Haha. My son was much the same and unless it was dangerous I let him learn trial & error, which has led him to be an innovative, creative and bold leader…has held a variety of demanding posts. It would have been so easy to be overly protective and just said no, like all his friends mothers…I prayed a lot, though, believe me! Especially when he took his bike to Europe his 18th summer and travelled 2500 miles and crossed the Alps twice…one summer rode from Seattle to Portland Maine..and that was nothing to later years. Yikes. ( think Navy Seals, oil spills , storms at sea, you name it)
“…I let him learn trial & error, which has led him to be an innovative, creative and bold leader…”
Thank goodness for real moms rearing ‘REAL’ men! God bless you for the nail-biting and prayers and letting a guy be a guy. That’s precisely what they ‘need’! The Alps twice! Yowza. I’d say there’s another chip of the old block there and how.
God bless :)
Yes I get it.
News from the Synod shows that all these haters crying before they were even hurt were wrong (as usual) as the Synod has affirmed that divorced and remarried couples are not to receive communion.
Martha, Martha,
1. Luke 10:38
Now it came to pass as they went, that he entered into a certain town: and a certain woman named Martha, received him into her house.
2. Luke 10:40
But Martha was busy about much serving. Who stood and said: Lord, hast thou no care that my sister hath left me alone to serve? speak to her therefore, that she help me.
3. Luke 10:41
And the Lord answering, said to her: Martha, Martha, thou art careful, and art troubled about many things:
And our modern day poster named Martha still said ….”None of you actualy seemed to read what I wrote at all, or else you just managed to miss the point entirely.”
Modern Day Martha, Martha, I see that you are still busy trying to make yourself look wonderful and magnanimous by telling everyone else that they also need to busy themselves by placing temporal things before Jesus. It looks like YOU are the one who is still pridefully managing to miss the point entirely!
Thank you Ann Malley, Dana, RR, Karen, PAUL, MADDIE and others for choosing the best part, which shall not be taken away by them.
You sound irritated.
You sound irritating, anon. I imagine you sitting at your flickering blue-lit computer screen in a darkened room, the sound of heavy traffic in the distance, all the houses along your street in the same darkness with the same flickering blue light leaking through slits in curtained windows, the children all playing nearby on their xboxes, teenagers texting to one another in the distance…suddenly the phone rings! It is Rachel from credit card services yet again. If it’s not one thing it’s another! Time to don the white mask of anonymous…a press of a key and California Catholic fills the screen with a bright light. Somewhere in the deep California night heavy rap music begins to throb…
PS…sorry, I was just trying to humorous, anon. Sometimes I just get carried away. ‘It was a dark and stormy night’ kind of thing.
Just hurt people for your own entertainment.
going to find a true Catholic website.
I apologize. i realized you had said you were sorry after I posted.
Apology accepted. Please accept mine.
Dana – you need to write! Short mystery to start, then screen plays.
Well, I’ll not pick on friends on this web site. I truly regret being unkind. I thought of anon. at Adoration tonight and hope he felt a hug from our Blessed Lord. On a happier note, Jesus is there for us day or night. God bless you Anne, Anon. Catherine, YFC and all…and that is a very valid point, YFC…you seem really charged from your European trip. Did you say you saw Gaudi’s la Sagrada Familia?
Thank you too, Catherine. Choosing the best part, however, seems more a matter of being placed in circumstances that lead one to see the better part. (And often enough, against one’s will.) Goodness knows, God has been very kind and generous to us undeserving lot. I often think of Our Lady picking children up out of the mud pits, not garbed like Nefertiri from the Ten Commandments, but viewing us trodding mindlessly in the pit and saying, “I’ll take that one. The REALLY dirty one.” And then off we go to her house to be bathed and perfumed and taught. God’s mercy in action.
And Dana, thank you for going to Adoration and for bringing back that very happy note. I really need it!
God bless!
I hope every one will take advantage of this wonderful website!!! Please read the prayers. If we all did this I think we might all be guided to more fruitful discussions.
https://www.knightsoftheholyeucharist.com/take-part-help/faithful2eucharist.html
Ann Malley,
You are right about being placed into circumstances that lead one to the best part…. even on this CCD website. We are all sinners in need of God’s mercy and yes Almighty God has been very kind and generous to us undeserving lot.
” And then off we go to her house to be bathed and perfumed and taught. God’s mercy in action.” So true Ann Malley! Friday I attended a funeral and at the cemetery after the final prayers the priest asked the people attending if they wanted to share anything about the man who had died. After a few close family members spoke a gentleman asked to speak. This man had worked with the deceased man and he said that he had stopped practicing his Catholic faith because he never got over the changes that were made in the Mass so he stopped attending because he felt like he was not even in the same Church that he had always known. It was the deceased co-worker who told him where he could attend a TLM within our diocese. This man had no idea that this was available. He said that when he attended the first TLM, (that his co-worker had informed him about) he cried because he felt like he had found his home again. Now people may say that he really did not understand his faith because we would never leave receiving the Blessed Sacrament if we truly understood what we were leaving and while this is true the fact remains that this man’s words are very common and Legion of Mary workers constantly heard this very same response when we visited door to door. Even at the reception after the funeral I heard another man ask why he left his other parish and the man said, “It no longer felt Catholic, it felt like he was attending the Church of What’s Happening Now.”
continued…..
continued from October 12, 2014 at 12:03 pm
More often on this website you can tell by someone’s silence if they are undermining the teachings from within. Blaming Humanae Vitae, blaming harsh teachings on divorce, blaming the Church for marginalizing homosexuals when in truth it has always been the Catholic Church who taught and stood up for the dignity of every person. They will consistently attack you or others who point out the crisis but when a faithful priests in full communion speak up about the crisis they face when teaching specific teachings then there is absolute silence from these mice. Their silence speaks volumes about those within who are trying to undermine the truth.
Why did you have to turn a beautiful witness into a sin?
… my father cried when I gave him a CD of the Latin Mass, Catherine. (Your story reminds me of that.) He said reluctantly that he would not ‘go back’ because he’d learned all the new stuff. And yet, he’d listen to the CD very loud every day and weep praying his rosary. But his friends and the priests at the new Church who would have the elderly folks form a ring around the altar made everyone feel so special and good. This was the same parish he was with when he discouraged his non-Catholic friend who said she wanted to convert to Catholicism not to worry because she was fine as she was. God gives you the chance to choose Him when you die.
Disconcerting, Catherine.
And yet my formerly dyed-in-the-wool heathen husband picked up on ‘something different’ that he *knew* was in there. (the warehouse where we had the TLM. This after repeated fails at trying the Novus Ordo). Imagine a Bruce Willis type, with hair, getting religion and pointing a finger at a warehouse – after a high mass, mind you – saying he would never attend any other kind of religious service – period! “There’s something *in* there!” were his words.
So picking up on what is and isn’t in different places or what doesn’t ‘seem’ quite right is not foreign to me. Not at all. A lack of belief has many side effects… real if not seen.
I wish this was a website where we could talk about the problems we encounter in our parishes and diocese but with people like Ann Malley here, we would be risking their souls because they use it reinforces their decisions not to go to Church.
Does anyone know a website where these things can be discussed without risk?.
Anonymous posting October 12, 8:30 PM: Good luck, I genuinely wish you well. Be Cautious, however, as folks at CCD even scour personal Facebook pages, and post their contents here, to vilify people of faith with whom they imagine disagreements and heresies.
Truly heartbreaking. When a person begins to convert, the devil tempts them. He tempts everyone-even Jesus. Being tempted is not the issue. It is falling for temptation. A new convert does not know enough to realize the temptation. This is why so many get led astray by New Age and Buddhism and Oprahism. They feel something spiritual and they do not know about the lying spirits. May God have mercy on you and your husband.
Anonymous, that cat’s out of the bag regarding problems in diocese and parishes and even the Vatican. That said, considering what does go on in many diocese and parishes, there is a risk to souls already going on for those who consider themselves – in good Faith – to be attending a Catholic mass.
If you want to stem the scandal, you may want to write Pope Francis and ask him what to do. Granting the media countless opportunities to interpret at will minus any firm and clear correction – from him – goes a long way to supporting confusion. That and giving the impression that Cardinals who court heresy and soft-pedal a counter-gospel are in any way to be admired. Contemplating Kasper on one’s knees is, however, the only way to contemplate Kasper, for God’s protection is assuredly required.
This is what is being promoted by some of the Pope’s chosen speakers –
And Jesus said
the gate is wide;
you can go the Father not only through Me but through any other way as well;
Just pick from the tree of all religions whatever rocks the divine within you , dude.
Some high ranking Clergy need to go back and read the real Words of Jesus.
Condoning or affirming anyone in mortal sin is – NOT Pastoral, – NOT Charitable, – and NOT Merciful.
It is not the job of high ranking Clergy to help send Souls to Hell.
Those who deny the true Words of Jesus – are heretics.
Clergy can be heretics, and are not exempt from sin.
I am just shocked at how much hatred there is for the Pope.
I can see no reason for it.
Please read the Gospels.
There is no hatred for the Pope.
There is concern for his Soul and the Souls of those he may decide to confirm in mortal sin.
Pray for the Pope – that he will do God’s will, not merely his own.
Why are you lying Anonymous?
Catholics hate sins, not people.
The majority of posters want people to help people get to Heaven. – This is true love as commanded by Jesus.
Hate? No one here hates anyone! Good grief! Didn’t you read Catherine’s beautiful quotes from St Luke? I can only speak for myself, but what I feel for the man who would rather be referred to as the Bishop of Rome, who has hosted a Tango Mass (check YouTube ) has kept his Argentine drivers license etc etc etc …is a deep distrust. I have felt an unspoken dread since the day he came out onto the balcony, wrapped in shadow. I pray for him everyday, but I can’t help feeling like a fatherless child. I truly want to find I’ve been greatly in error and try to hold only positive regard for him. He loves our Lady. It could just be we’re not used to the ways of Argentinians that this confusion arises? We all must continue praying for him… We could easily be deceived through a corrupt and secular press . If only he hadn’t brought Cd Kasper into all of this! Does anyone understand any of this?
Dana, I really don;t see what there is to distrust. He is the Pope. He is the Bishop of Rome. People talked the same way about St. John Paul II when he became Pope. There were all kinds of rumors about his terrible temper and how the Vatican hated him because he wasn’t Italian. He changed a lot of things too. So did Pope Benedict. Every Pope does.
As for Cardinal Kasper, the press has really blown that out of proportion. The Synod has affirmed that people who are married and divorced cannot receive communion. Please stop letting the gossipmongers get to you. Continue to pray for Pope Francis and the Synod.
Jesus, I trust in You.
They synod has made no such affirmation.
“Senior Catholic leaders meeting at the Vatican are deep into passionate debates about how the church can respond to the realities of modern family life, yet at the same time they repeatedly have stressed that they are not going to alter long-standing doctrines, such as the teaching on divorce and remarriage.”
https://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/lifestyle/58505345-80/church-doctrine-changes-bishops.html.csp
This is just one source. the original news came via CNS tweet.
@CatholicNewsSvc
#Synod14 strongly reaffirms that those who remarry without annulment cannot receive Communion; strongly sees need to assist those people
Individual bishops may be making these statements, but the Synod as a body has not made these statements. Moreover, if you read the rest of the link you provided, you will see that there is very lively discussion hapenning about the pastoral application of doctrine, meaning that we may very well end up with allowing in some degree and situations, remarried people to receive communion. If a woman has been abandoned by her husband through no fault of her own, her situation is the same as if he had died. The Bishops should, and I think will, look at situations like that and find that she is being doubly punished for acts she did not commit.
You are correct that there is no official statement from the Synod. Those come at the end. The observation is by the small number of press allowed to attend.
Catherine, you make a point that has not been made often enough by any of us. This Pope, Francis, comes from Argentina. He is from the southern hemisphere. The church is different down there. It is wrong, I think, to always look at the church from the view point of the U.S.. Our issues related to the family are very different than the southern hemisphere, especially southern Africa. An African Bishop told the Synod the other day that they need to consider places like his country where the tribal practices are to assign a widow to another man in the village. Is she then living in sin and can’t receive communion? What about the wife who is abandoned by her husband and is then divorced. If she remarries is she in sin? What about those parts of the world where the myth is practiced that to be cured of aids, you must have sex with a virgin. Do you provide him with a condom so that he doesn’t spread the decease? The Synod fathers seemed surprised that married couples had sex for the pure enjoyment of it, not just to have kids. Family, in our culture and in other cultures around the world have such different meanings. One African Bishop could not understand the concept of a newly married couple living away from their parents. Their culture had several generations living in one small house. Their issues are different from ours. Since the church is universal, we must think globally. Your point is well taken. Our Pope is not a northern European. And, don’t forget that he is a Jesuit.
“….Synod fathers seemed surprised that married couples had sex for the pure enjoyment of it, not just to have kids.”
And if you believe that ‘act’ and/or ‘spin’ then you may think that priests are formed beneath cabbage leaves and have no parents or family relationship or human instinct at all.
I cannot imagine how these leaders withstood their first six months of hearing confessions – what with all that scandalous talk that goes on in there.
That said, culture doesn’t trump Catholic moral teaching. If so, maybe those who want multiple wives should all take a one-way to Africa so they can be ‘good’ polygamous Catholics.
Good grief, Bob One!
Catering to the sinful desires of mankind,
rather than following Jesus – leaves out REPENTANCE and trying to Sin no more.
They are no longer important -because that is what man refuses to do.
Some humans are basically telling the Church – my way or the highway.
What will the Church leaders do?
That is why there is N0
1) repentance; and
2) purpose of amendment not to sin again
as agenda items for the Synod.
Let me elaborate. I think the Pope will admonish sinners, he just not doing it on the time table you would like him to. He’s not starting with that, because frankly, it wouldn’t be effective. Time will tell.
Martha, what you or I “think” the Pope will do does not matter. God did not make us mind readers or able to see into the future.
Only the Pope’s public actions, public statements and his public appointees matter.
When he causes confusion, that is a problem, that he has created and will have to answer to God for.
His Vatican staff can not run around saying what the Pope “really meant” to say and expect the world to believe it.
There have been too many gaffs, mistakes, or truths of the Pope which contradict the teaching of Jesus.
Popes always say confusing things. What was that “smoke of satan” a reference to anyway? We have no idea!! It is a confusing statement!! Yet it gets repeated very very often on this website.
Anonymous, if you are confused about any Bible verse, please provide the Book and verse number.
Someone will help you.
Here is the info regarding “Smoke of Satan”.
“We have the impression that through some cracks in the wall the smoke of Satan has entered the temple of God: it is doubt, uncertainty, questioning, dissatisfaction, confrontation….
We thought that after the Council a day of sunshine would have dawned for the history of the Church. What dawned, instead, was a day of clouds and storms, of darkness, of searching and uncertainties. – Pope Paul VI, June 29, 1972, Homily during the Mass for Sts. Peter & Paul.
Smoke of Satan has also been used for evil within the Church, including but not limited to child abuse.
PAULA, only part of that quote came directly from Pope Paul VI. The rest of it came from somebody else’s narrative interpretation of his particular homily. See this article for details, specifically “[The Pope] perceives the work of the Council as a good thing that has been thwarted–or partially thwarted–by the social crisis that was breaking out in the developed world at this time. In other words, he’s responding to the cultural crisis of the late 1960s and early 1970s and its impact on the Church using a poetic image and attributing it (rightly) to the work of the devil, but he is not making the kind of sensationalistic claims that some have used to interpret this phrase.” https://jimmyakin.typepad.com/defensor_fidei/2006/11/the_smoke_of_sa.html
As far as the ‘social crisis’ in the 60’s and 70’s, there was definitely a spirit of rebellion, ‘free-love’, drugs, and general debauchery in the casting off of traditional values and social structures, Torn.
So if you are stating that the pope was only drawing a ‘poetic’ image image in referencing the spirit of the age – the spirit of the age was rather demonic – entering the Church. That’s pretty clear and accurate. Unless folks are so deluded as to only believe Satan works by means of Linda Blair head spinning. In reality, subtlety works much better.
If only the ‘smoke of Satan’ were sensationally represented by a Hollywood stereotype and or openly proclaimed pedophile. Then the flock would have avoided danger. Much like if the wolf didn’t bother putting on the sheep’s clothing when approaching the flock.
Where are you getting this stuff? The Pope admonishes sinners almost every day.
Here is a good source for Pope news.
https://www.news.va/en/news/pope-francis-make-an-examination-of-conscience
Many posters to this site have vivid imaginations, to put it kindly. If they make up stuff about the Pope and treat him dissmissively, just imagine how they treat us normal folk! I doubt the Romans of Tertullian’s time would exclaim, “see how they love one another”. https://www.earlychurch.com/unconditional-love.php
YFC, you are correct. On VA.com, you can find the daily homilies of the Pope, given at morning Mass. They are full of ways we can improve our faith and save our soul. Penance is always a main theme. People, all of us, need to stop accusing people of wrongdoing when we don’t have the facts to back us up. We not only see this in the comments on this site on a regular basis, but also daily on the comments made on talk-radio and Fox News, which by definition are not correct. This is a Catholic site. We,. all of us, should act more Christian in the way we post. Mea Culpa
The Pope has also named heretics Cardinal Kasper and Danneels as major presenters at the Synod while limiting other Cardinals to 4 minutes for rebuttal.
Paula you throw around the accusation of heresy like candy. Please stop.
YFC – any Clergy or Laity who oppose the teachings of Jesus and His Church are indeed heretics.
Pope Francis appointed Kasper and Danneels to be guest speakers at the Synod. Google them, and you will find their current writings and public statements are that of heretics.
All that is necessary for those who work for the Church’s destruction is to remain in the Church and state that they accept the teaching of the Church while practically opposing it in every way.
There is apparently no limit to the benefit of the doubt contained in this well of deceit.
They are rebellious and disobedient children who truly place themselves outside the Church, but they will not leave.
No, for the real work of destruction is inside and they have spent a century climbing to the positions where they can try to complete their work, “
Paula, please read exactly what these men said, rather than beleve sensationalist headlines.
I think I know why you call them heretics and they are not guilty of heresy.
Anonymous. I have read the statements of appointed Cardinals Kasper and Danneels. I have also watched the videos where they speak.
Kasper especially has been promoting his heresies all over the world (including the USA) with speaking engagement.
They indeed are heretics and schismatics.
It is not pastoral, or charitable, or merciful to condone or confirm anyone in their Mortal Sins.
If you love your neighbor you will want him or her to get to Heaven for eternity.
The sin of Pride is so great in Kasper and Danneels that they think they know more that Jesus, and St. Paul.
St Paul – 1 Cor 11:27-29 – stated that whoever receives the Eucharist UNWORTHILY condemns himself.
What Cardinal, Bishop, or Priest (or even Lay Catholic) would want his neighbor to be condemned ?
Kasper and Danneels are evil.
” All that is necessary for those who work for the Church’s destruction is to remain in the Church and state that they accept the teaching of the Church while practically opposing it in every way.
There is apparently no limit to the benefit of the doubt contained in this well of deceit. “
Paula, do you know what a heretic or schismatic is?
Who elected you pope, anon? You keep lecturing everyone here at how wrong we are and how we’re all schismatics and you don’t even have a name. It’s not that your defending Church teaching so much as you like belittling everyone else. I can here your gavel pounding every time you make one of your pronouncements. Try loving us all a bit more and judging us less…you might find we all have more in common than you think.
Paula, this is not true. Cardinal Kasper gave a talk at another meeting that has become so controversial, not at the Synod. All members of the Synod, @190 Bishops and Cardinals and @ 60 lay people have been given about 4 minutes each to make a presentation. Cardinal Kasper has suggested changes in some of the church laws and approaches to divorce and other family life issues. That is not being a heretic, that is called discussion..
Bob One – what do you not understand ? ? ?
“Thou shall not commit Adultery” – God’s Commandment
“Thou shall not covet thy Neighbor’s wife” – God’s Commandment
Teachings of Jesus about divorce and remarriage – Mk 10:6-12; Mt 5:32.
Teaching of Jesus about adultery, mercy, and required repentance – “Go and Sin no more” Jn 8:11.
Catholics who are divorced and civilly remarried currently have 3 choices.
– – – 1. If they believe that their first marriage was NOT VALID, they should contact their Diocese office of Marriage Tribunal for further information and needed forms.
(Remembering that truthfulness is important because we can deceive other human beings, but not Jesus at our particular judgment.)
– – – 2. They can repent and live as brother and sister, and receive the Sacraments. (CCC #1650)
– – – 3. They can choose not to repent, and continue committing adultery with someone else’s valid spouse, and NOT receive the Sacraments, but must raise their children in the Catholic Faith. (CCC # 1651)
Receiving Holy Communion while in the state of Mortal Sin –
– – 1. Sacrilege against the Body and Blood of our Lord.
– – 2. Scandal for others which can be an additional mortal sin. CCC 2284, 2285, 2286, 2326.
– – 3. Teaching of St. Paul 1 Cor 11:27-30 regarding condemnation for receiving unworthily.
Kasper has NEVER once brought up – choosing to continue to live in the state of mortal sin; or needed repentance.
Or Bob One, don’t you believe these are necessary either ?
Or do you not believe in Sacrilege against Our Lord ?
Kasper is a heretic. (See Church definition of heresy CCC 2089)
I disagree with Cardinal Kaspar but what he proposes in not a change in Church laws. (There already is one-no sex. When that occurs from age or disinterest or medical issues or sanctity-they can return to the sacraments.)
I wish people would actually read what the man said. Secular sources do not understand well how the church works.
Again, I do not agree with him but he is sort of the fall-guy for bringing it up. Just because there is a discussion about it does not mean he is a heretic. He makes a proposal for discussion. He is not trying to change the church’s law.
Bob One, on the day of marriage, either the marriage was VALID or NOT VALID.
Based upon his own public statements, Kasper is calling for those who live in public and permanent adultery to receive Holy Communion.
https://canonlawblog.wordpress.com/2014/09/30/what-to-know-before-asserting-that-a-typical-annulment-makes-no-sense/
Allowing Sacrilege for some over time will eventually lead to Sacrilege being accepted by all.
It will also lead to widespread grave disrespect for our Lord.
(Do not think that Kasper and Danneel do not know this. They are not stupid.)
Kasper has been personally invited by Pope Francis to be a featured speaker at the Synod. Otherwise he would not qualify to be there.
Danneels who supports homosexual marriage and homosexual acts is also one of the Pope’s invited speakers. He also purposely ignored the sexual abuse of children in Belgium.
Both of these guys should be excommunicated for doing the devil’s work.
Repentance of Mortal Sins which requires a firm purpose of amendment not to commit the sins again, is not in the vocabulary of these heretics.
Based upon their own actions and public statements, I also believe that their goal is to destroy the Church from within.
.
Cardinal Daneells does not support homosexual marriage and homosexual acts. You are distorting what he said.
The link you gave is about annulments, not the divorced and remarried receiving communion.
Pray for His Grace Cardinal Raymond Burke, may the Holy Ghost choose him as our next Holy Father to save us and Holy Mother Church from the current disaster we are in and to restore the TLM to Rome and all of our altars. Deo Gratias
That’s a tall order, but totally agree with you…
“ Cardinal Burke was among those elected by his fellow bishops of one of the three English-speaking circles (the Anglicus A) as moderatore (chairman) of the group to help in the writing of the group reports that make the final report.
There were many “conservatives” elected in the different groups, including Cardinal Sarah, moderator for Gallicus (French-speaking) A, Abp. Léonard, relatore (rapporteur) for Gallicus B; Cardinal Bagnasco, moderator for Italicus B; Cardinal Robles Ortega, moderator for Ibericus (Spanish-speaking) A.
So, what was the Pope’s response to these surprising votes ?
He personally appointed ad hoc, and without prior announcement on this before the synod, six other prelates for the composition of the final report (the “Relatio Synodi”), all known as strong liberals: Cardinals Ravasi and Wuerl, Abps. Victor Manuel Fernández, Aguiar Retes, and Bp. Peter Kang, and the Superior General of the Society of Jesus Fr. Adolfo Nicolás Pachon. “
[Update: Full translation of the Radio Renascença article below. Radio Renascença was founded and is owned by the Lisbon Patriarchate, and by other Portuguese dioceses, and is widely known worldwide as the official radio network of the Portuguese episcopate:]
https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2014/10/cardinal-burke-pariah-not-for-synod.html
The Pope does not need to pack the Synod Committees with those of his like mind. Pope are human and make errors as well.
The error here was having Bergoglio elected!!!!!!!!!
Janek, he is “His Holiness, Pope Francis” to you and me. He is the Pope. Be respectful of the Vicar of Christ!
“Anonymous”: You are wrong, and you know that you are wrong on many, many things. For example, it is well reported that the vile Cardinal Danneels does support homosexual marriage and misled decades of Belgians during his time as leader there: “Danneels was directly responsible for the abuse of the spirit of Catholic children in Belgium during decades, against the crying pleas of Belgian parents (shocking report) and was naturally quite happy to support “homosexual marriage” just last year.” (Cited in Rorate Caeli, from “The New Catholic” dated 9/11/2014); and, LifeSiteNews reported in June 2013 that Danneels referred to “gay marriage” laws as a “positive development”. This man is an anthema and should have been dismissed from his position decades ago. The idea that Francis reached out to Danneels to add to his collection of moral lepers to advise the Church on the Family is utterly indefensible. No wonder there is an “iron curtain” from statements and writings coming from the Synod; it is likely that most of such fail to represent Catholic doctrine, teachings, moral expectations, or Tradition. Christ had Judas, and met with many, many sinners; Christ did not rely on such sinners, however, if they failed to repent. What did John the Baptist do in the desert; something about “preaching the baptism of penance, unto remission of sins.” Mark 1:4 (DRA) Not much coming out of the Synod about this, it seems. Happy talk in the face of sin, like adultery, sodomy, all of that, gets you into Hell. Of course, Cardinal Kasper could complain only about certain people using those words, which he found “mean”.
You can find better sources than that and you should read what the Cardinal said (which I do not agree with) and not use secondary sources that put their own spin on what he said.
“Anonymous” your hostility to “secondary” sources (which to you must mean just about everything) is noted, but sadly misplaced. And, you know, Adolph Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and many others can be read, or seen, making statements that what they were doing was the fault of the Jews, or Capitalists, or someone else: what good is it to quote the Devil directly? It is still the Devil. Cardinal Danneels is creepy. Besides, his words reflect what is paraphrased about the Church being OK with a kind of homosexual marriage. See The Vatican Insider (September 28, 2014; referring to an article in 2013 quoting the Cardinal directly). The fact that Danneels — who faced a number of pornography charges while in office — actually was permitted to vote for Francis is anathema to the Faith. Satan is very powerful; Christ only promised that the Devil would not “prevail” against the Church, not that all Church leaders would be holy men. You really need to do better research, “YFC”, and to put sometime into thinking about what you say, instead of doing the obvious Liberal thing and simply — and inaccurately — lashing out.
Not sure why you put me in your response “Saint” Christopher. I don’t know anything about Daneels.
“Your Fellow Cathoic”: You are correct; the reference to you should have said, “Anonymous”. Regrets.
St. Christopher, can you not have a civil discussion? This isn’t a political race where candidates use attack ads to win an election. I would consider Vatican Insider a better source than Rorate Caeli or Life Site News. The original statements are in French and I cannot read them. For you to condemn a person for something that someone said that someone said that someone said, is pure gossip and sinful judgement.
Even if he said all that is reported that he said, he did not as the first person said “support homosexual marriage” (he denied that it can exist) or “homosexual sex” (it is not even referenced)..
St. Christopher is being quite civil, mous. Why you assume malice is curious. Your corresponding judgment and condemnation is completely out of line… if not in direct contrast to the accusations you make.
You may not want to assume the worst of others when attempting to chasten them for ‘assuming the worst’.
Your post makes little sense, “Anonymous”. And, as for demands for civility, this is also a favorite Liberal debaters trick, demanding a say and then trying to talk-over a conserative speaker. Evil hates an honest debate; ever notice how Liberals say so very little — kind of like Cardinal Kasper — except that someone is “mean”. Danneels was an enabler of pedophilia (meaning homosexuality) and pornography. Take a look at, “The Fall of the Belgian Church,” by Alexandra Colen, in “The Brussels Journal” (June 24, 2010). Here is a taste: “Since the revelation in April that Cardinal Danneels’s close friend and collaborator, Mgr Roger Vangheluwe, the Bishop of Bruges, had been a practicing pedophile throughout, and even before, his career as a bishop, victims have gained confidence that they will be taken seriously, and complaints have been pouring in, both to the courts and to the extra-judicial investigation committee of the archdiocese. The new archbishop Mgr. André-Joseph Léonard, has urged victims to take their case to the courts.” Danneels is an outlier within the Church, except for Francis, who somehow sees value in a man so morally compromised. Try to keep up, “Anonymous” and do learn to have some substance next time you post.
Ann Malley, see the post below on literacy.
St. Christopher, I am sorry you did not understand my post. But I am not surprised.
I see the secular media is at it again. Life Site News is, too.
Read the real document:
https://press.vatican.va/content/salastampa/en/bollettino/pubblico/2014/10/13/0751/03037.html
And now, as the Vatican tries to correct the false media reports,the spin is “the Vatican is backtracking because of the response of conservative Catholics.”
It is a reminder: most of the US’ adults read at an 8th grade level. 20% of them read at a 5th grade level. People who have an average IQ of 100 commonly mis-read texts, mis-interpret data and make logical errors concerning them.
Vatican documents intended for the clergy are usually written at a Masters’ degree level. They address an audience that already has a lot of knowledge about the subject.. They assume pristine logic and conformity to Church teaching.
Prior to the advent of being overly ‘pastoral’ in favor of precise, I would tend to agree with you, mous. Not anymore. The claim of elevated language has become nothing but a mask for including yes that means no and no that could mean yes. An over abundance of subtlety.
And assuming ‘pristine’ logic in the face of clergy who openly discount it is absurd. You sound very much like a desperate art critic attempting to explain to the common man why a Picasso like painting shows a woman with five legs or some such nonsense. Teaching needs to be clear, mous, otherwise it does nothing but confuse.
Anonymous writes, “Vatican documents intended for the clergy are usually written at a Masters’ degree level. They address an audience that already has a lot of knowledge about the subject.. They assume pristine logic and conformity to Church teaching.” Real Translation = More elitist sounding baloney that is only swallowed by those who manufacture it.
Ann Malley, Praise God for allowing his Mother to appear to three uneducated shepherd children who would not hijack her message and lie about the truths that she revealed to them. Our anonymous poster will even deny that there is a crisis. This is another example of elitist sounding wolves pulling the ol’ ….”you’re just too dumb to really understand or pick up on the reality that we’ve been lying to you for years” Anonymous is pulling the PhD card in a deceitful attempt to even Pile it Higher and Deeper.
National Catholic Register – The Truth About The Crisis
https://m.ncregister.com/42889/b#.VD1mn6ZHbCQ
…And we should really question the election of the Apostles themselves, Catherine, obviously not well educated enough to wade through the sophistry of the good news.
But hey, what with Cardinals/Bishops questioning the level of charity in the words used by Christ Himself, well, we certainly have evolved.
Thank you Catherine. You do understand. Yes, the children of Fatima, St. Bernadette, etc. did not even understand the messages they received. That helped to authenticate them.
And yes, people can get so over-educated that they no longer have a simple faith.
Jesus said “Unless you are like little ones, you will not enter the kingdom of God.”
Theologians, scripture scholars often set the faithful on their ears because they seek to investigate things which to the simple believer is obvious.
And-the traditionalist groups do the same thing. Remember when John Paul II was canonized and the SSPX ran an essay on their website stating that technically, being made a saint does not mean that someone is in heaven? Now every faithful believer knows that it does.
So it is right to believe what the Church believes and it is right to stand up to novelty however, it is wrong to sin in doing so. (Which I point out that you and Ann Malley did.)
The Gospel is sophistry? Are you kidding me right now?
Catherine, I am sorry to get personal, but I feel this has been laid on my heart. You have a tendency to let things like this op-ed by Pat Archbold take precedence over the Word of God. If you believe what he wrote, OK. It is immaterial. You pattern though has been that if someone doesn’t share or even know the opinions that you agree with, they are some kind of homo-heretic or devil. No one is required to read or to accept Pat Archbold’s opinion. He is not a prophet of the Most High Lord. Remember a few weeks ago when so many of the Internet Loudmouths jumped on the “Pope Francis is getting rid of Cardinal Burke so he can’t influence the Synod” bandwagon?
And lack of education, does not mean one is dumb and having a lot of education does not mean one is smart. The problem isn’t a lack of understanding because if the simple believer obeys Jesus Christ is the simple things, they will not sin. If you obey the laws of God, you will not offend him, even if you do not understand something that comes from the Vatican.
Sorry to shock you, YFC. Yes, the good news is sophistry, just like we need advanced theological degrees to understand the clarity that ‘should’ be coming from Church leadership.
But then, considering you ascribe to the convoluted with regard to promoting what is simply against the Catholic faith on a regular basis, I expected your shock and… general lack of understanding.
No kidding :)
“…You have a tendency to let things like this op-ed by Pat Archbold take precedence over the Word of God.”
Pat Archibald aside, mous, you seem intent on negating
CCC 675:
675 Before Christ’s second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers. The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth will unveil the “mystery of iniquity” in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth. The supreme religious deception is that of the Antichrist, a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and of his Messiah come in the flesh.
So keeping one’s nose to the grind stone and doing the will of Our Lord is paramount, but so is keeping your Catholic wits about you when that which isn’t Catholic is hammering at the door.
” CONFUSED, CONTRADICTORY CHAOS in ROME 10-13
Manipulating the Media Message.”
https://www.churchmilitant.tv/daily/?today=2014-10-13
and
Gloria.tv
https://www.gloria.tv/media/NrmPc5Am4Qv
UNOFFICIAL Translation
https://press.vatican.va/content/salastampa/en/bollettino/pubblico/2014/10/13/0751/03037.html
ROME, 13 October 2014: An international coalition of pro-family groups has rejected the mid-way report of the Extraordinary Synod on the Family, calling it “a betrayal”.
Voice of the Family responded to the report (relatio post disceptationem), published this morning and presented by Cardinal Péter Erdő (See “Synod on Family: Midterm report presented, 2015 Synod announced“, Vatican Radio, 13 October) The report has been welcomed ecstatically by liberal Catholic commentators.
https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2014/10/pro-life-and-pro-family-group-synod.html#more
The Roman Catholic Church as we know it will split into factions thanks to that Jesuit who calls himself Jorge. We all knew this was coming the night Bergoglio appeared on the loggia. Flee to the S.S.P.X.!!!!!
Janek, please flee quickly, and take your disrespect with you to the society that is in schism with the true church!
No, “Bob One,” it is the Liberals and Homofascits that need to leave the True Church and find anothe home, say the Episcopalians. Unfortunately, Pope Francis seems to wish that Catholics would join the Episcopalians, kind of a “black” reverse of the brilliant “Ordinariate” fashioned by Pope Benedict. Yes, Ms. Jefferts Schori and her Dress-Up Bishopresses would love to have you all with them in their empty churches.
“Janek” may well be correct, bringing to mind the great words of Abp. Athanasius that you may have the buildings but we have the Faith. And, speaking of the SSPX, they look pretty good right now, don’t they? Not too much coming from Econe demanding that they value the “gifts” of homosexuals and that we all see “value” in the “sexual orientation”.
This stuff coming out from the Liberal wingnuts in Rome will hopefully set off a firestorm of dissent in what is left of the Catholic Church. The 6000 word document finding its way to the outside was obviously cooked ahead of time> No one is going to buy it, except for the secular press that is already pagan, and the homosexual lobbyists, who will insist that something new is now the law. It is not, and cannot ever be.
Well said St. Chris…
What all of us must be mindful of is remaining faithful to the one, true Church. Keep the faith. We have our CCC’s and Bibles, and so many resources! Our brothers and sisters in China and Africa show the way to be faithful under duress, as so many before them have done. I share everyone’s concerns but I didn’t even say the rosary yesterday or today! I’m my own worst enemy…I don’t need to worry that the Church will fail as I’m sure to fail the Church first.
Well put!
Janek, and how many schism have their been in the SSPX already?
I would not recommend that as a sheepfold to flee to.
Better advice, stand your ground. You have been given the Catholic Faith. You do not need to fear the arrows that fly by day nor the terror of the night.
This is just a passing storm. You do not need to tremble under your bed.
Stand firm in the Catholic Faith in the one, holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.
Jesus and Mary are there for you. The next generations are counting on you.
Are you a reed swaying in the wind? Or a house built on sand?
There is nothing to fear but fear itself. Be strong; don’t let the media run you off from God.
Thank you anon. but I wish that you would use a name so that you won’t be confused with other anonymouses. :) We must be resolute, to be sure. What is worrying is how the media is taking the ball and running with it. Those trying to impose their wills upon the Church’s teaching (specifically the Rockefeller foundation, George Soros and his sorry band of fake catholics, et al) are putting their ideas out there as if they were in accordance with the Vatican so that those ignorant of Church teachings will be clammoring to be allowed more license. On his own, Cd. Kasper, could never get this much press. It looks like a concerted effort to me. Actually, it’s prescripted like a grade B movie plot. “Catholic bishops signaled a radical shift in tone Monday about accepting gays into the Church…” the opening paragraph of Nicole Windield, AP dated Oct.14. This is scandalous and callously sneaky. But then, that’s pretty much satan’s modus operandi, no? It would be expedient and kind of Pope Francis at this point to reassure all Catholics that it is not in his authority to change Church teachings on these issues.
Dana, where has Rockefeller or Soros foundations tried to impose their will on Church teaching? Can you point to a single instance? Because I seriously dont think that the target of their work is church teaching. Civil law, yes. People’s attitudes, yes. Church teaching? Not so much. Pleas show where this has happenned.
If you are able to access The special programs on Michael Voris’ website, he has a highly documented program on Rockefellers pernicious and deliberate attacks on the Church for over a hundred years. Go to Church Militants and simply write Rockefeller in the search box. The same for George Soros. https://abyssum.org/2014/02/17/meet-george-soros-americas-and-the-catholic-churchs-public-enemy-number-one/
It’s an on-going war…not specifically directed at the synod, but most definitely their relentless attacks on the Church bear fruit indirectly…imagine all the backstage goings on there right now!
And how much schism in the teaching of the Faith has occurred within those who ‘on the outside of the cup’ are perceived as clean and in full communion by those in positions of ‘authority’ while on the inside they are promoting, teaching, imposing scandal, heresy, and that which is against the Catholic Faith? (Why do you think there is any pretense of secrecy involved with protecting the names of those Bishops who are openly endorsing the support of homosexual civil unions, communion for the divorced and remarried, etc? Because those ‘views’ express a divergence from the Faith, mous.)
Intention with regard to repentance is paramount to receive true absolution, mous. Much like the priests intention to do what the Church has always done with regard to confecting the Blessed Sacrament is also necessary. Much like intention and will are looked at closely when discerning the validity of the Sacrament of Matrimony. If you do not understand that many in positions of authority have lost Faith in grace and God and are attempting instead to preach to those with itching ears, think again.
So this idea that it’s all okay as long as one isn’t in one of ‘those groups’ is misleading. For Bishops with bipolar visions of the deposit of the Faith are already opposed to the Faith – which is supposed to be the source of unity. Not just the ‘I’m-okay-with-the-Vatican-of-2014’. And your premise to look to the schisms off of the SSPX is rich as all the SSPX is attempting to do is to cleave to that trunk of the Catholic tree that existed prior to all of this ‘new’ division that must be cloaked at a so-called Catholic synod.
Perhaps it is time that the shroud is removed to see if the Body truly remains?
Obviously, you are a schismatic and as such, I do not expect you to agree with anything the Catholic Church does.
Aren’t you the one who called faithful Catholics idolaters?
We remain faithful and don’t allow the storms to frighten us and lead us astray, but remain in the Barque of Peter and do not cry out of fear for the waves that seem to be ready to swamp the boat, because we know that Jesus is in the boat and is fully aware and not asleep. And that nothing happens that He has not foreseen and permitted.
In Catholic Tradition, it was always understood that one’s faith would be tested. Either you believe in the Faith or you don’t.
There are many Catholics who, like you, only accept parts of the Faith. They are not in schism, they are in error. Your doubts on the other hand have devolved into schismatic thoughts and words.
You are apparently logic impaired and unwilling to understand that the SSPX, and more to the point, those who attend their chapels, are not schismatic despite your desire to paint them as such. (Why you would want to force that narrative is truly a mystery, but whatever.)
You should read and be aware of the following:
675 Before Christ’s second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers. The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth will unveil the “mystery of iniquity” in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth. The supreme religious deception is that of the Antichrist, a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and of his Messiah come in the flesh.
So said, Catholic tradition points to a time where human solutions that negate the Faith are coming. If the attempt to negate the sinful aspects of adultery and homosexual unions don’t qualify, then God have mercy, I don’t know what would. If that’s schismatic to you, then perhaps you’re not as aware of the Faith as you think you are.
God bless.
So what is your interpretation of this weeks Synod, anon? Cardinal Burke has issued a direct call to the pope to make a public statement supporting Church teaching, Have you been keeping up with the pro=homosexual agenda going on in Rome? If the pope does not openly support Church teaching, whose side is he on? Keep attacking faithful Catholics here and keep silent on the terrible activities in Rome …that’s just what pleases the father of lies. Here’s a prayer I found on a Catholic website.The Latvian Archbishop is so concerned he wants us ALL praying…
https://voiceofthefamily.info/wordpress/?p=378
Dana beware of doublespeak coming out of the Vatican.
We do not intend to change Church teaching – BUT ………….
The Vatican published “”Relatio post disceptationem” of Oct 13, 2014
https://press.vatican.va/content/salastampa/en/bollettino/pubblico/2014/10/13/0751/03037.html
is what is causing much of the problem, so the other press should not be blamed.
In particular paragprahs # : 20; 47 – 48; 50 – 52 do change the Faith, and allow for interpretations that actually violate the teachings of Jesus and the Church.
The Vatican’s own publication has prompted Catholics to nickname the Synod – “SinNod”.
SinNod Interim Report Soft-Pedals Mortal Sin To The Eternal Detriment Of The Sinners
https://restore-dc-catholicism.blogspot.com/2014/10/sinnod-interim-report-soft-pedals.html
https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2014/10/pro-life-and-pro-family-group-synod.html#more
Also to blame are the Pope’s personally invited featured speakers – Cardinals Kasper and Danneel.
and personally invited Cardinal Donald Wuerl who supports giving Holy Communion to those obstinate in Mortal Sin.
It does not help that the Pope’s very recent appointment of Blasé Cupich to head up the large Chicago Diocese was announced in the media all over the world.
Cupich supports giving Holy Communion to those obstinate in mortal sin, and has forbidden his Diocese Priests (Spokane Diocese) to pray the Rosary outside of abortion mills.
This Pope has clearly stated: ” “….. let us ask ourselves if we have actually taken a few steps to get to know Christ and the truths of faith more, by reading and meditating on the Scriptures, studying the Catechism, steadily approaching the Sacraments.” – Pope Francis, May 15, 2013
Then he does the opposite in his important appointments.
I’ve been keeping up with it Ed..I daily read Rorate Caelli, for one thing…I was just trying to keep a balance, but this latest fiasco is exposing the deliberate challenge to Church teaching, the Bible, everything that we hold dear by a group of wicked bishops trying to form some sort of coup…if Pope Francis doesn’t publicly denounce this latest public statement, what next?
Although it makes me very sad, we must remember that Popes are also human beings who sin.
(Even Christ’s chosen Apostles were sinners, all of whom repented except Judas Iscariot.)
In the history of the Church, there have been 267 Popes;
among which are 80 canonized saints, and 12 evil and corrupt.
The jury is out on Pope Francis. He says one thing and does another in his appointments and actions.
“….. let us ask ourselves if we have actually taken a few steps to get to know Christ and the truths of faith more, by reading and meditating on the Scriptures,
studying the Catechism,
steadily approaching the Sacraments.” – Pope Francis, May 15, 2013.
Has he changed his mind ? ? ? ? ?
CCC: ” 81 Sacred Scripture is the speech of God as it is put down in writing under the breath of the Holy Spirit.
And [Holy] Tradition transmits in its entirety the Word of God which has been entrusted to the apostles by Christ the Lord and the Holy Spirit.
It transmits it to the successors of the apostles so that, enlightened by the Spirit of truth, they may faithfully preserve, expound and spread it abroad by their preaching.”
CCC: ” 2089 ….. HERESY is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith,
or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same.”
Read your Catholic Bible, and the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition”.
For those who want to know the TRUTH about the “SinNod”, here is the interim report from the Vatican web site.
Unofficial Translation – “RELATIO post disceptationem”
https://press.vatican.va/content/salastampa/en/bollettino/pubblico/2014/10/13/0751/03037.html
Of particular interest are paragraphs:
# 20; 47 & 48; 50 – 52.
No mention of: sin; need for repentance; need for a firm purpose of amendment not to commit the sin again.
Temporal, not Eternal. Will not Save Souls.