The following comes from a July 22 story by Frank Schubert on the website of Public Discourse.
The process that killed Prop 8 in California should concern anyone who cares about democracy and the rule of law. The cheaters won.
When I was a kid, my brother and I would occasionally go to the Memorial Auditorium in downtown Sacramento and watch the spectacle that was then called “Big Time Wrestling.” It featured all kinds of amazing characters with different story lines. The matches always involved someone who represented the “good guy” against an adversary who embodied the “bad guy.”
People cheered and jeered every move in the ring. The bad guys won a lot of the time, usually using nefarious tactics like low blows, sleeper holds, and brass knuckles, always in front of the crowd but invariably when the referee had his back turned, distracted by some ruse or other. People would be furious when the good guy lost, but they knew that as surely as night follows day, soon enough there would be a rematch where, against all odds, the good guy would mount an incredible comeback and destroy the forces of evil right there in the ring. And secure in the knowledge of the rematch, all in the universe of teenage boys would return to normal.
The legal wrangling over Proposition 8 has reminded me of a Big Time Wrestling match. It’s something I’ve followed with more than a passing interest, since I managed the campaign that enacted the constitutional amendment. Watching Prop 8 careen through the federal court system left me feeling frustrated and sometimes incensed that the system itself seemed so staged, and appeared to be so corrupt.
But I felt, like I did as a kid, that somehow, some way the initiative adopted by over seven million California voters would escape the grasp of slick-talking lawyers and self-interested judges and politicians and emerge victorious—living to fight another day. A rematch, if you will. Alas, it now sadly appears that absent some last minute legal ruling this initiative—and with it a good chunk of the initiative process itself—is dead.
Regardless of whether you see voters defining marriage as the union of one man and one woman as the “good guy” or the “bad guy” in this political drama, the process that killed marriage in California should greatly concern anyone who cares even remotely about democracy and the rule of law.
The Prop 8 challenge landed in the San Francisco federal courtroom of Vaughn Walker. We’re supposed to accept that this happened randomly, and that the plaintiffs weren’t tipped off by someone in the court system to file the case at a particular time when Judge Walker happened to be the one who’d get it.
Whether by accident or grand design, it was a fortunate assignment for the plaintiffs. Walker was a judge in a long-term committed relationship with another man—in other words, he was in exactly the type of relationship as the plaintiffs who were bringing suit. Walker never disclosed this critical fact to Prop 8 supporters, or to the public, despite judicial rules requiring such disclosure if even the appearance of impropriety was present.
Imagine if a judge heard a lawsuit by tomato farmers against an environmental law, but refused to disclose that he was also a tomato farmer. The media and environmentalists would scream to the heavens about the potential for bias. Yet, because the issue in this case was same-sex marriage, Walker got away with the low blow.
While the lawsuit stood before a hometown judge, state officials did everything in their power to throw the case. Both then-Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger and then-Attorney General Jerry Brown refused to defend the law enacted by the people of California, despite their sworn oath of office to do so. The current Attorney General, Kamala Harris, dutifully took the same course.
Of course, the constitution of California does not give to the governor or the attorney general the power to decide for themselves which laws are constitutional and which are not, nor are they free to determine which laws shall be defended and which shall be abandoned. But no matter.
Having orphaned Prop 8, leaving it and the seven million citizens who enacted it defenseless in court, it fell to the backers of the initiative to defend the law in the federal courts. This not only cost the supporters of Prop 8 over $10 million in legal expenses; it ultimately put a sleeper hold on the initiative.
Imagine that, in our tomato farmer case challenging state environmental laws, neither the governor nor the attorney general would defend the environmental law, and the lawsuit went undefended. What howls of protests we’d hear from the left! I can even imagine hearing demands for recalls in such a circumstance. Yet because the issue in this case was same-sex marriage, Schwarzenegger, Brown and Harris all got away with it.
Time and again during the trial Walker issued rulings widely favoring the challengers of Prop 8. Twice his rulings were overturned through emergency appeals—once by the US Supreme Court on the eve of trial—something that is virtually unheard of at the district court level. To nobody’s surprise, Walker ruled that Prop 8—which reflected a point of view on the definition of marriage that until five years before its adoption had been held in every single state in the nation, and virtually every other country since the dawn of time—violated the Fourteenth Amendment and was thus illegal under the US Constitution.
Next the case headed to the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, where it became the province of a panel including Stephen Reinhardt, senior judge of the circuit and widely considered to be one of the most liberal (and most overturned) judges in America. I frankly never expected much relief out of what many conservatives ruefully refer to as the “Ninth Circus.” But even I was surprised by the chicanery involved in Reinhardt’s handling of the case.
It turns out that his wife, an attorney with the ACLU, had advised the plaintiffs’ lawyers on strategy before this very case was even filed! Reinhardt refused to recuse himself from deciding the case his wife had participated in, and went on to write a majority opinion finding that Prop 8 was unconstitutional. But not even Stephen Reinhardt could go along with the reasoning of Judge Walker; instead he invented a whole new legal rationale to get the result he—and his wife—so badly wanted.
Before Reinhardt could invalidate Prop 8, he had to deal with the thorny legal issue of “standing”—that is, did the proponents of Prop 8 have the legal right to bring the appeal, or is that something that only state officials can do? Since the governor and attorney general had refused to fulfill their obligation to defend the law, it was the proponents of the initiative bringing the appeal.
Reinhardt felt that the issue of standing rested on whether the state courts allowed initiative proponents to represent the interests of the state when elected officials refused to do so. His panel asked the California Supreme Court for advice on the question, and that court answered unanimously that initiative proponents did have that right under state law. With this answer in hand, Reinhardt did what we expected him to do and he issued his opinion striking down Prop 8.
Finally, the case was headed to the Supreme Court, but would they take it? Many observers felt that the justices would decline to take on the politically-charged issue of same-sex marriage. Yet they not only took the Prop 8 case, they took a case out of New York challenging the federal definition of marriage. I felt elated when the announcement came that review had been granted—thinking that they’d only take the case if they were going to reverse the Ninth Circuit. Otherwise, I reasoned, they could just dodge the issue by not granting review.
It’s impossible to describe the amount of work that the Prop 8 legal team did in representing the people of California before the Supreme Court. They did a phenomenal job. I thought the issue was incredibly well briefed, and superbly argued by lead attorney Chuck Cooper. After the oral argument, I was confident that we would win on the merits.
The oral argument also convinced me that the Court was likely to invalidate the federal definition of marriage in Section 3 of DOMA using a theory of federalism—that states had the right to define marriage as they wished, and that federal law must follow the states’ definitions. This only strengthened my view that Prop 8 would be upheld on the rationale that if New York had the right to redefine marriage, then surely California had the same right to go in the other direction.
I have to admit to extreme disappointment and more than a little bitterness when I read the decisions in the two cases. The Court invalidated the federal law and then refused to decide the merits of Prop 8’s constitutionality, instead punting and using “standing” as their way out.
To read the entire posting, click here.
Spoken like a true sore loser.
Jesus is not a loser YFC……
This article actually tells us who are the real losers…those who condone and advance your movement of gay lies….are the real losers! So you have spoken like a true sure loser!
Your sparkly eye’s only live in the NOW! Are you expecting to live forever Mr. YFC? Sooner or later we all will have to face our creator….Homosexuality does not lead to eternity but Christ and His truths do!
The Real question is “who do you love more? Your homosexuality or Jesus? ” This court has made an announcement against God and the common good of mankind and more consequences will follow. The sins of wicked men will trickle down and the faithful will have face persecution for their loyalty to Christ and His ways. It’s just the way it has to be before our Lord returns again.
We are not seeing the spiritual aspects of this and they are tremendous. The reason our Lord still sheds His mercy on this perversion is because of the suffering faithful, their prayers and sufferings.
So YFC your gloating is deceiving you. I hold comfort and peace in my Lord, who loves us more than you will ever know, if you don’t repent.
Abeca, I don’t believe Jesus wrote this article. If he had, he wouldn’t have created false witness against the other side and against the Judges, as this author does. And secondly, I’m pretty sure that Jesus doesn’t side with liars and with people who want other people to live lives of loneliness, despair, and persecution.
Celebacy and Chastity is not a life of “loneliness, despair, and persecution”.
CCC: ” 2349 People should cultivate [chastity] in the way that is suited to their state of life.
Some profess virginity or consecrated celibacy which enables them to give themselves to God alone with an undivided heart in a remarkable manner. Others live in the way prescribed for all by the moral law, whether they are married or single.
Married people are called to live conjugal chastity; others practice chastity in continence:
There are three forms of the virtue of chastity: the first is that of spouses, the second that of widows, and the third that of virgins.
We do not praise any one of them to the exclusion of the others. . . . This is what makes for the richness of the discipline of the Church.”
– Adultery, – Fornication, – Homosexual Acts, – Masterbation, are all MORTAL SINS. Anyone living in the state of Mortal Sin may not receive Holy Communion.
YFC – you are not a “Fellow Catholic”.
IF you were even ever baptized a Catholic – you are now a heretic and schismatic.
Feeling good is more important to you than doing God’s Will and Saving Souls.
Fortunately, NAN, you are not the person who defines what it means to be Catholic or Christian. You may feel it within your place to sit in judgement of others, but if you actually read the rest of the CCC, or the Gospels, you might come to a more humble conclusion about your role and mine.
YFC, any faithful Catholic is capable of defining Christianity. You are not able to do so because of your persistent sin of gay advocacy and/or activity. Thus, you are envious of those who actually abide by the faith given them by Jesus. You seem to be wasting the faith Jesus has offered you. You know what happens when your envy gets the better of you and you carry out your jealous acts, right. Read the story of Cain and you may see the way it works.
Skai your comments from July 28, 2013 at 8:37 pm weer superbly conveyed! God bless you, way to go!
Skai, get over yourself. I’m not envious of you or anyone else on this forum, as you accuse. Many people have pointed out to you that your theology is not fully Catholic, and while I agree with them, I don’t think that makes you not Catholic. I think it makes you confused, obsessed, and paranoid.
YFC Nan us correct
YFC is called spiritual envy….those that suffer with it deny or can not identity it because their sinfulness blinds them.
YFC read Skai’s comments from July 28, 2013 at 8:37 pm. They tell it all….he conveyed well and he is right on!
I don’t understand why someone would want people to engage in sexual acts that are inherently unhealthy. Anal intercourse is quite common among male homosexuals but can cause trauma and other problems. The anus was not structured for entry. It was structured for exit. If you truly love someone why would you engage in such practices? Vaginal intercourse is much safer especially for couples who have followed God’s teaching throughout their lives.
God forbids all homosexual acts. Jesus also says lusting is sinful. Jesus says if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. If your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. These are harsh demands and probably hyperbole, nevertheless it demonstrates the degree Jesus says we should go through to avoid sin even though they seem un-loving from a human perspective. Jesus says we should deny ourselves and pick up our cross and follow him. I think I believe Jesus would require such human defined loneliness to be part of that cross if the alternative is mortal sin.
kaves1 you are correct. With any sexual appetite….some are a disorder more than others, they are acts against God’s natural plan and His true intentions for mankind to live happy this life.
Homosexuality is a disorder with complex backgrounds. Only the good Lord can help us deal with this growing issue that many men and women are now tempted to fall in. It’s truly a very sinful one. With society growing it’s agenda and acceptance of it, it is more difficult to help those who are struggling.
Our hearts go out to those who struggle with this disorder and we pray for God healing and intervention with this growing problem we are facing in our morality.
YFC those that defend the real definition of marriage….are with our Lord….
Notice how this is NEVER about the incredible ineptitude of the Alliance Defense Fund (ADF) attorneys arguing for Prop 8 before Judge Walker, the 9th Circuit and the Supreme Court. No…couldn’t be that….
For example, here’s what conservative Liberty Council had to say about the job ADF was doing: “ADF presented only two witnesses at trial, following the 15 witnesses presented by those who challenged Proposition 8. Even Judge Walker commented that he was concerned by the lack of evidence presented by ADF on behalf of Prop 8.”
In contrast, the other side had noted conservative advocate and “super lawyer” Ted Olson, who successfully represented George W. Bush before the Supreme Court in the 2000 election AND David Boies who represented Al Gore. The best of the best. No expense was spared.
It’s time people like Frank Schubert admit they screwed up big-time in their choice of attorneys. Penny wise and pound foolish.
Excellent point Dave N.
This was really a ‘win/win’ game for the Hollyweird Homosex gang that financed the Attack on Marriage & Family, along with so much of the present Age of Abomination – Not that they aren’t raking in big bucks and perks in return now along with other movers and tree shakers.
Anyway – To Attack something as fundamental as Marriage – with totally bogus ‘hurt my feelings’ arguments that Avoid the Issues related to pandering to such Separatist / Neo-Exterminationist MISANDRY (Hatred of Men, Masculinity and Normal Heterosexuality) as has fueled the Gaystapo onslaught…
– Has required an umprecedcented Collusion between various Radical Homosex Insiders in the four branches of government (executive, legislative, judicial & Tabloid)…
– with the bought and paid for ‘free press’ of the lamesteam media doing what ever was needed to make sure the Misandrist Hate Propaganda Spigot remained fulsome and flowing – like fluoride in the water.
The Gaystapo today may be a tiny minority – but the utter ruthless fanaticism they display is worthy of the Homo-Nazi Storm Troopers of a prior Abomination, and like Ernst Rohm’s SA – they scare the heck out of most people, with good cause.
The Pogrom to Destroy the hated ‘Y-DNA BioManPigOppressor’ Patriarchy has two main axis – to propagandize and intimidate the ‘Vanilla’ (suburban taxpaying voters – the equivalent of the Homo-Nazi ‘Good Germans’) in to accepting a ‘Pander or Perish’ paradigm…
– And to Destroy the Institutions of an ordered society and leave politically correct hollow shells in their place – essentially the ‘Kangaroo Kourts’ of the Abomination.
The battle cry of ‘Remember Horatio Algore’ and the hanging chad fueled this revenge movement in ways that few outside could have understood, but which have come home to roost in this age of Abomination.
Thus are the ‘enemies’ (*you know who you are) of Barry (Soetoro / Marshall Davis / ObamAcorn… Whoever the guy really is) to be exposed and rooted out – like the enemies of the prior Reich – Sent to their Death in Dachau under Ernst Rohm’s boy raping terrorist Storm Troopers.
Appeal to the ‘Turkey Baster Creationist’ Courts is not just futile -but a great way to wind up Assassinated in Prison (not capital punishment, that takes forever and rarely sticks)…
– via Gaystapo Contract with prison gangs who essentially run far too man institutions. All it takes is Any Activist Judge finding an (otherwise innocent) Un-Good party guilty of ‘Contempt’ (say for refusing to deny their own inherited immutable genetic gender heritage, and pretend drag queens are womyn…)
]- And there is no need for a trial, and no appeal, and no end to the sentence of Contempt – save via the contracted prison gang bang bang bye bye contract.
Soooo… By Destroying the System and its ‘Fairness’ (meaning the chance the other side might win an election or case once in a while) – in the process of Destroying Society
– The Gaystapo also prevent ‘counter-revolutionary’ tendencies from taking root, making it a Thought / Hate Crime to even discuss in a manner that “Reflects Adversely” upon – their depraved perversions and pederasty.
Hence – the Vanilla (like the Good Germans of Rohm’s Homo-Nazi era) lose confidence in the institutions that were supposed to protect their Constitutional Rights, and thus faith in American Democracy – which s just fine with Hollyweird, and their Gaystapo enforcers, who plan to come out on top after the revolution anyway.
“We shall either nobly save or meanly lose this last best hope on earth/” A. Lincoln 1862 – an equally dark time.
Scenario: Corrupt govt vs 200 Million heavily armed citizens. I wonder how it would turn out.
Well, Skai, that wold be a scenario for sedition.
Speaking about the xy and xx genes, maybe it’s time for every political candidate have his or her or its sex genetics posted publically. How many would be xyy or xxy, etc?
“The Gaystapo today may be a tiny minority”: St Paul provides us with a metaphor of the tiny rudder of a large ship steering it, as the tongue steers the person. The “tiny minority” is acting like a rudder and steering the ship of state onto the shoals of history, while the passengers cheer the crew which is in the bathhouse getting dirtier and dirtier.
” other movers and tree shakers”: ie, knuckledraggers and monkeys, or street brawlers and those in high places. Finance the goons and twits and you’ve got institutionalized abortion and sodomy.
The following is a copy of a letter I submitted to the District Court (Judge Ware) on 5/27/11 after the Trial – it speaks for itself.
Re: Letter to the Court on Motion to Vacate Ruling by Judge Walker –
Perry v. Schwarzenegger, 3:09-cv-02292-JW
Dear Judge Ware:
As a Pro-Se Amicus to the both the State and Federal Proposition 8 cases, I write this brief letter to the Court to provide only that additional information I have that is related to the Motion to Vacate. I was physically present in Judge Walker’s Courtroom on the day that Mr. Blankenhorn was cross examined, and witnessed first hand a spectacle of witness harassment and intimidation that could only be called “Circus Like” – if one wanted to insult the professionalism of circus workers.
Sitting in the front row of the spectator seats I observed such a constant background pattern of jeering, laughing, booing, cheering and other forms of witness intimidation from the crowd (who were overwhelmingly opposed to Proposition 8 and derisive of the witness and proponents) that I believe it impacted the proceedings and interfered with the witness ability to testify.
It would have been impossible for Judge Walker not to have heard and seen what was going on in the back of the Court, but he appeared to actually encourage it, as if he were an actor making a farewell appearance by playing up to a friendly house.
I do not know if the microphones and cameras were able to pick up the same level of background noise and commotion in Court, given that they were directionally pointed towards the front of the Courtroom and the Judge /Lawyers/Witnesses, but it was certainly apparent to those physically present that what was going on in the back benches was designed to deliberately interfere with the Witness and Testimony.
Beyond this tainting of the trial by partisan favoritism in allowing a sympathetic crowd to engage in audience participation in the proceedings, is the issue of Judge Walker’s rulings essentially denying the Scientific Facts about the pathological nature of Homo-Anal Coprophile behaviors.
It is common knowledge worldwide that the city of San Francisco has been the epicenter for the creation and transmission of new strains Aids and related STDs since the beginning of the pandemic in the West a quarter century ago. Even the US Center for Disease Control publishes the fact that 1 out of 5 Homo- Anal Males has Aids, and that those who engage in such Coprophile Behaviors are at many many times the risk for all manner of health issues than the general population.
If Judge Walker was actually engaging in such Coprophile Behaviors when ruling on the case – then I submit that his Anti Scientific Bias in favor of validating his own choices to engage in such Pathological Behaviors shows a clear lack of impartiality and justifies vacating the decision.
Finally, the ‘Open Secret’ of Judge Walkers Behaviors was only really a secret from ‘outsiders’ to the Homosexualist Community, which has apparently embraced Walker as a Hero post retirement. Failure to Disclose in advance the potential for a separate avenue to pressure the Judge from this militant activist community (say by private threats of later exclusion from the Homosexualist Community in San Francisco) is a breach of the Judicial Trust, and Judge Walker should have seen this potential conflict as clear grounds for Recusal.
I had never witnesses such a level of highly partisan audience participation in any Courtroom before, and although I found none of the attempts at ‘humor’ from the Judge or participants to be in the least funny – there were more attempts at jokes by the Judge and Derisive Laughter from the gallery in this courtroom than I have seen in many alleged comedy clubs.
Unfortunately, the joke was on our legal system and the Citizens who enacted the wise moral provision of Proposition 8 in their Constitution, who were the ones truly targeted by such vicious partisan attacks in that Courtroom.
I sincerely hope and urge that the judgment be vacated, and if need be a new trial in a Neutral Venue be ordered; one far away both physically and politically from the pervasive Misandry (Hatred of Men, Masculinity and Normal Heterosexuality) that now characterizes my old hometown of San Francisco.
Sincerely Michael J. McDermott
Mr. McDermott: Your narrative is most frightening. In the present climate, decency and rule of law no longer apply in San Francisco, which is now almost totally under the control of the homosexual power structure. These perverts control city hall, the county government and quite obviously the courts. Your report is most enlightening, and most depressing at the same time.
The Gay Mafia won again. Who cares what the people think. The benighted homophobe mob can just drop dead. The enlightened elite knows what’s best for all of us. These liberal lefties have no conscience. To cheat for a good cause is virtuous. The ends justify the means. They make a mockery of the initiative process, if it does not serve their objectives. The law means nothing to these fascists. As long as decent people vote this pond scum into office we have not a prayer. Welcome to Obamaworld! Wake up, folks, stop electing sodomites and democrats, not necessarily in that order! It all starts with the ballot box. Use it wisely!
And you wonder why the public is fleeing from your side…
YFC, are you gloating a bit prematurely?
Skai, I’m not gloating, I’m just following opinion polls and judicial rulings that have been moving for YEARS, creating momentum towards the recognition that all America’s citizens deserve to have a lifetime of love and commitment honored and recognized through the state issuance of marriage licenses.
YFC, Still following opinion polls instead of following Christ? There is nothing new under the sun. The momentum of the crowd also moved in the direction to yell, “Crucify Him!” History is repeating itself and you have chosen to follow the “opinions” of the crowd instead of following Jesus. The crowd wanted Barabbas to have a lifetime of committing mortal sin in order for them to be able to crucify Jesus.
To lobby for others to commit homosexual acts and then call these mortally sinful acts a lifetime of love and commitment is committing another mortal sin. The individuals among the crowd who lobbied for Barabbas’s freedom were also sure that they were right but their opinions were wrong and their opinions contributed to the crucifixion of Jesus.
YFC, You have only encouraged disobedience to the teachings of the Catholic Church by lobbying for disobedience. YOU are still crucifying Jesus with your chants of “free the stigma associated to the existence of deadly mortal sin and then call the committing of that particular deadly sin a good.”
Your obstinacy in defending sin may follow you right up until the moment that God calls you home. You are offending God. You will never be able to say, “I did not know Lord. No one ever told me or taught me to stop offending you.”
YFC why do you lie. Fleeing? really? It was your gay mafia who threaten the medical physiological board into not treating homosexuals because it was once considered a disorder to all and it was treated as such but now many do not want to lose their careers so they have caved in to the pressure. It was the new tolerance of people that has permitted your agenda to grow, it was and it continues to be…..so stop, the wicked have slowly infiltrated it’s indoctrination. The crooked play and they are cheaters because they are living a lie and they will stop at nothing, they use their power and money. (this power is only given to them by the devil) So Mr. YFC learn your facts and stop fooling yourself and stop trying to fool us because many of know the truth.
For many hearts of men are wicked in themselves and it is easy for secular views to expand.
You said “And you wonder why the public is fleeing from your side…” and we know the truth and why as I have mentioned above but also the public is not fleeing from our side but they are fleeing from the truth and from our Lord…They lack the fear of the Lord in their hearts as do you.
Anton, FYI fascists are on the right, not the left.
YFC that is such a stupid argument! How many yelled crucify Him. Didn’t you know that they crucified Christ? The majority of the crowd voted to have him hanged! They were all wrong! Just because most are wrong does not mean that they are right…the Lord has already spoken and your crowd is wrong….this is all temporary, sooner or later consequence will continue to follow.
Hell is not a good place to pick but many are blinded or many don’t care..they live in the now. Plus it is true….it takes this evil Gay Mafia to tweak the laws, they are dishonest! Show me your friends and I’ll tell you who you are!
National socialism (nazi) is a fascist ideology, YFC … socialism is left and it can be fascist. “Fascism is a form of radical authoritarian nationalism” (wiki). This describes the gay movement, and the Obama regime, but not the Tea Party. “Nationalism” can be also “internationalism”; for example, Naziism was nationalist, but Sovietism was internationalist. Same thing, different scale.
BTW, YFC, naziism destroyed itself; sovietism protected and developed itself. Hitler made self destructive decisions; Putin makes constructive decisions, as have his predecessors. The Nazis are known to have had a significant homosexual dimension; whereas, I’ve never heard this of the Russian leadership. Hitler swayed many Catholic bishops and you see the shambles the Roman Church is in today; the Soviets infiltrated the Orthodox Church leadership (somewhat forcefully … uh, by means of murdering 8000 bishops, priests, nuns) and yet the Orthodox people thrive religiously, and to our knowledge are not beset with corruption such as gays, although no doubt many Orthodox women have fallen to the abortion pressures of the govt.
The Communists certainly protected themselves to an extent. They were able to industrialize the county by stealing and nationalizing all industries. They also stole from the wealthy who either fled or were killed. The kulaks (farmers who were better off, most were not actually wealthy) had their land taken and they were thrown in prisons or killed. Millions died in the Ukrainian famines of the 1930’s which were basically due to Stalin. Communists were not protected in the late 1930’s, when hundreds of thousands of loyal communists were killed in purge trials and mass executions. The churches suffered terrible persecution and the state promoted “The League of the Militant Godless.” After the German invaded, the communists made peace with the churches and left believers alone. This continued after World War II. In some places, western Ukraine for example, the communists promoted the Orthodox Church at the expense of Catholics. Eastern Rite Catholics in the land taken from Poland were told that they were now Orthodox and their churches were given to the Orthodox. After Ukrainian independence, many of these people took back their churches and proclaimed that they were Ukrainians Catholics. They had to remain underground in the soviet years. I think one of the reasons that communism fell in Russia was that there weren’t a lot of people left to steal from and there weren’t a lot of true believers in communism either. Most people were more interested in their own self-interest. I never thought that the US would ever go to war with Russia but I was amazed at how fast the Soviet Union collapsed and how there was so little loss of life.
YFC: Spare me your ignorant blather. Fascists are NOT on the right. In Europe, the Christin parties were on the right, the socialists and communists were on the left. The fascists were the THIRD WAY. To draw votes from the left, Hitler called his party the National Socialist
German Workers Party (Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei). Fascism is essentially statism, with a powerful government in control of society. (Kinda like the Obama administration).
True, Anton, but according to wikipedia, it is a form of ideology of the ‘right’ reactionaries, because wikipedia is always left leaning and all their definitions fit the leftist agenda because the techno/computer age is ALL about so-called liberalism. This is how they’ve managed to abscond with so much information and how history is presented. Bill Gates is a poster boy for the liberal elite agenda; arrogant, ignorant (except for computerspeak, which is not exactly a broad spectrum of learning) with plenty of money and an utter disregard for other points of view. This country has been ripe for a collapse for some time if for no other reason than the inverted pyramid with the preponderance of powerful Gates and Buffets on the top and a tiny minority of faithful, thinking, creative people who reflect the continuance of tradition and true liberal education such as is found at St.Thomas Aquinas and Wyoming Colleges. Couple that with an unravelling of our educational system, (with Gates forcing his own educational ‘ideas’ on the world, God help us) and a collapse of the family as we once knew it and the drumming at the gates of the homosexual/pro-abortion, anti-God, anti-male, anti-traditional rabble and it’s pretty difficult to see a happy outcome. And now Pope Francis puts his little soupcon of confusion by giving his blessing to homosexual priests…until his ‘interpreters’ come up with a more palatable explanation of yet another of his off-the-cuff remarks. He said ‘Who am I to judge’? Cdl. Mahony must be feeling a smug vindication. I’m not saying he was defending homosexuality by any means, but he does have a way of bringing confusion to the mix.
Sorry, Anonymous, I never considered Wikipedia the Oracle of Delphi. I take everything with generous dose of salt. I know fascism from personal experience, having grown up in Europe in the 1930. I do agree with you wholeheartedly that this country is slowly unraveling and that our educational standards are eroding at an alarming rate. As regards Pope Francis, I believe he was grossly misquoted when he expressed sympathy for homosexuals; he specifically added the words “provided they are not part of a lobby”. No pope should openly discuss issues like homosexuality with members of the press. He will always be misquoted. The press is no friend of the church and never will be. I understand that St. Thomas Aquinas is a fine college. Fortunately, I was educated at Georgetown when the Jesuits were still on the side of God.
Mr. Seidl, Fascists are right wing. Mussolini, Franco, Hitler, the pro-Nazi Vichy French, were all right wing. They were far right and very anti-communist. You state your opinion but not historical fact.
Dear Mark from PA: I lived in Europe through the rise of Mussolini and Hitler. I know exactly what Fascism is and isn’t. Not all right wing parties are fascist. The Vichy regime was anti-communist, joined with Hitler in a common cause. Franco was anti-communist, aided by fascist Italy and Nazi Germany in common cause, while many in the US supported the Spanish Reds (e.g. The Abraham Lincoln Brigade).
Mussolini, Hitler, Franco and Petain were all anti-communist; so was Pope Pius XII and Senator Joe McCarthy. And the King of Sweden.
The political spectrum is far more diverse than a simplistic Left-Right dichotomy. “Far Right” is a meaningless term. Some people call the Tea Party and Rush Limbaugh far right kooks.
Be sober and watch: because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, goeth about seeking whom he may devour. 1 Peter 5:8
The LORD said to Satan, “Where have you come from?” Satan answered the LORD, “From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it.” Job 1:7
And you shall be hated by all men for my name’s sake. But he that shall endure unto the end, he shall be saved. Mark 13:13
And the brother shall betray his brother unto death, and the father his son; and children shall rise up against the parents, and shall work their death. Mark 13:12
FOR THOSE FAITHFUL TO CHRIST AND HIS NATURAL LAW, FOR THOSE WHO SEEK TO BE IN CHRIST IN ALL here is a scripture passage to give you strength and edify you in His ways:
Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the realm of the dead, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom. Ecclesiastes 9:10
But Christ is faithful as the Son over God’s house. And we are His house, if indeed we hold firmly to our confidence and the hope in which we glory. Hebrews 3:6
See then the goodness and the severity of God: towards them indeed that are fallen, the severity; but towards thee, the goodness of God, if thou abide in goodness, otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. Romans 11:22
Genesis 2:18: And the Lord God said: It is not good for man to be alone: let us make him a help like unto himself.
YFC: Really?? As the old saying goes, ” God made Adam and Eve and NOT Adam and Steve!” Read on a few more verses and see that God made a WOMAN, and SHE was Eve! Seriously, did you think you could use this Bible verse to further your perverted, homosexual cause? That is so laughable! Bwhahahahaha!
YFC, are you claiming that the “helpmate” God created for Adam was a gay man? YFC, where there is a group of men, there is lonliness; where there is man and woman there is not (there certainly may be agony, but never loneliness) :)
No Skai, o fcourse I’m not claiming that. Then again, I’m not claiming that Adam was an historical person for whom God created a personal helpmate of either sex.
So, YFC, you believe there never was a creature who would be the first man. Didn’t you say you were a professor of genetics or something like that? But you are incapable of basic logical reason. How do your students see you?
Skai I see that once again you are gearing up for a week full of insults towards people’s basic abilities and intentions. If people treated you the same way you treat others on this forum, I think you’d quickly see why ad hominems should be prohibited, but since we treat you with more respect than you treat us, you go about your insults as though you were justified in your ways.
YFC, I have no problem with ad hominems directed my way; they only serve as a challenge to me to improve. But you whine and throw hissy fits. You need to repair to your prayer cave and work on becoming holy, instead of caving in and digging your hole deeper.
YFC, do you agree with the following Catholic teaching?
359 In reality it is only in the mystery of the Word made flesh that the mystery of man truly becomes clear.”224
St. Paul tells us that the human race takes its origin from two men: Adam and Christ. . . The first man, Adam, he says, became a living soul, the last Adam a life-giving spirit. The first Adam was made by the last Adam, from whom he also received his soul, to give him life. . . The second Adam stamped his image on the first Adam when he created him. That is why he took on himself the role and the name of the first Adam, in order that he might not lose what he had made in his own image. The first Adam, the last Adam: the first had a beginning, the last knows no end. The last Adam is indeed the first; as he himself says: “I am the first and the last.”225
Pope Pius XII stated: “When, however, there is question of another conjectural opinion, namely polygenism, the children of the Church by no means enjoy such liberty. For the faithful cannot embrace that opinion which maintains either that after Adam there existed on this earth true men who did not take their origin through natural generation from him as from the first parents of all, or that Adam represents a certain number of first parents. Now, it is in no way apparent how such an opinion can be reconciled that which the sources of revealed truth and the documents of the teaching authority of the Church proposed with regard to original sin which proceeds from a sin actually committed by an individual Adam in which through generation is passed onto all and is in everyone as his own” (Humani Generis 37).
YFC, Mr. Schubert is not the loser, YOU are. And by that, I mean an eternal loser, if you persist in your pursuit of S.S.A., and then coyly pretend that you YOU JUST CAN’T HELP IT! Because there’s always N.A.R.T.H., proven to deliver results in weaning homosexuals from S.S.A. Certainly you’ve heard of it? The alternative, for all of us, if we maniacally continue to pursue sinful pleasures is very scary. The fourth of the “FOUR LAST THINGS” as affirmed in Catholic theology is, of course, eternal death, HELL. Whether we’re heterosexuals or homosexuals or thieves or murderers, it makes no difference. We’re ALL going to have to face the “4 last things.” Please, Holy and Blessed Virgin, pray for us especially at the moment of our demise. GOD BLESS ALL, MARKRITE
You realize NARTH is a joke, right . . . ?
NARTH is good, peter is bad.
Dear markrite. Well, i It was this author’s team that lost these suits. ANd I call him sore because he justifies it through a very elaborate conspiracy theory instad, as one commenter suggested, the lousy lawyering by his side, the poor evidence on his side, or the utter failure of his side to provide any evidence supporting his claims.
As to NARTH, if you read the transcripts of the Prop 8 trial, you will see the sworn testimony of one of NARTHs victims. NARTH destroys lives, driving many to depression and even suicide. THere is not a SINGLE peer reviewed article supporting NARTHs “therapeutic model”. And there was not a single witness at trial who was willing to provide a single shred of evidence as to NARTH’s efficacy. If NARTH weren’t victimizing young people every day, it would be, as Peter says, a joke. But NARTH is a preventable tragedy.
YFC, can you answer my question? thankyou
YFC won’t answer because he doesn’t have the truth on his side and he has to come up with something that is man made made up.
NARTH’s virtue does not depend on a sodomite lip smacking court of homosexuals slaves, but depends on God, and God repairs the sinners who desire it.
God forgives sinners. NARTH merely perpetuates sin.
NARTHis never used to repair gay clergy. Give it up. NARTH and everything it reresents is a lie.
You are right, Your Fellow Catholic and Joan. It is sad that the Courage ministry allows itself to be used by NARTH and their outdated and debunked theories.
“It’ not up to me to judge them”, Pope Francis.
Joan: Pope Francis also said that homosexual sex acts are sinful!
No, but they will sure be judged after death, and so will all who have condoned such depravity. We’re talking about active pederasts here, not those living in chastity. I have a feeling the new pope is going to deeply regret many of his off the cuff remarks. I hope he lives long enough to see the fruits of them.
Math:21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity
PS I am speaking specifically to those of you who would use our Holy Father’s words against him and profanely. He is to be all about love and forgiveness, but I know sure as check that his quote will be worn out with overuse, even more than it already is, to justify sin and to silence those who point out the sin. Joan’s specious use of it is just such an egregious example. ugh.
joan, it has never been the Catholic postion to judge a person, only God can do that. However, the Church does allow judgement of actions already judge by God. Homosexual acts are always immoral. The Church plainly states this. The Church also allows admonishment of the sinner. It is considered a spiritual work of mercy.
“Who am I to judge a gay person of goodwill who seeks the Lord?” the pontiff told a news conference in response to a question. “You can’t marginalize these people.”
Pope Francis opened the door Sunday to greater acceptance of gay priests inside the ranks of Roman Catholicism as he flew home to the Vatican from his maiden trip overseas. Fordham University Professor of Catholic theology Terrence Tilley discusses the implications.
Pope Francis reaffirmed church teaching by referring to homosexual acts as a sin. But he wielded his formidable bully pulpit to shift the tone of how the church regards homosexual orientation at its highest ranks.
“Pope Francis opened the door Sunday to greater acceptance of gay priests inside the ranks of Roman Catholicism as he flew home to the Vatican from his maiden trip overseas.”
Is that you k? Yes, I thought so. You’ve been MIR ( missing in reaction) lately in defense of the other lobbyists, so I see you are trying a new disguise beside the name anonymous. Please joan/k ….Stop opening the door to what’s known as a guilty conscience that serves the disorder before faithfully serving God first. Pope Francis spoke about lobbying too. You conveniently missed that one in your latest 11:57am lobby. Perpetual lobbying is NOT goodwill.
I’m not K
Catherine she is not k….
Catherine, to keep you from this mistake again, I do not read many of the articles on CCD. I did not read this one. I used to read them all but it gets redundant after awhile. I appreciate the articles that I do read. I have come to understand that not many people are serious about learning the entire Catholic faith. If they come to a desire to do so, the Church will be there for them. I am behind in my Year of Faith reading and am trying to catch up. While I am still appalled at the way people treat each other on this website, all I can do is pray. God bless you.
Jesus judges, and popes who are in union with Jesus may judge … it’s up to them. Besides Pope Francis did not say he cannot or will not judge. In fact Pope Francis asked us to realize that he is capable of judging. “Who am I to judge?”, he asked. Well, he is the head of Jesus Christ on earth, and as such is fully authorized to judge. So, Joan, thanks for asking this great question, for you inspired me to think through the puzzle. Now go and give up your lesbianism or gayness or sex confusion or whatever manner of perversion pervades your souls and then follow Jesus.
skai, try The Golden Rule. Other faiths have a Golden Rule as well: The Golden Rule or the ethic of reciprocity is found in the scriptures of nearly every religion. It is often regarded as the most concise and general principle of ethics. It is a condensation in one principle of all longer lists of ordinances such as the Decalogue. See also texts on Loving Kindness, pp. 967-73.
You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
1. Judaism and Christianity. Bible, Leviticus 19.18
Whatever you wish that men would do to you, do so to them.
2. Christianity. Bible, Matthew 7.12
Not one of you is a believer until he loves for his brother what he loves for himself.
3. Islam. Forty Hadith of an-Nawawi 13
A man should wander about treating all creatures as he himself would be treated.
4. Jainism. Sutrakritanga 1.11.33
Try your best to treat others as you would wish to be treated yourself, and you will find that this is the shortest way to benevolence.
5. Confucianism. Mencius VII.A.4
One should not behave towards others in a way which is disagreeable to oneself. This is the essence of morality. All other activities are due to selfish desire.
6. Hinduism. Mahabharata, Anusasana Parva 113.8
Tsekung asked, “Is there one word that can serve as a principle of conduct for life?” Confucius replied, “It is the word shu–reciprocity: Do not do to others what you do not want them to do to you.”
7. Confucianism. Analects 15.23
Leviticus 19.18: Quoted by Jesus in Matthew 22.36-40 (below). Mencius VII.A.4 and Analects 15.23: Cf. Analects 6.28.2, p. 975.
Comparing oneself to others in such terms as “Just as I am so are they, just as they are so am I,” he should neither kill nor cause others to kill.
8. Buddhism. Sutta Nipata 705
One going to take a pointed stick to pinch a baby bird should first try it on himself to feel how it hurts.
9. African Traditional Religions. Yoruba Proverb (Nigeria)
One who you think should be hit is none else but you. One who you think should be governed is none else but you. One who you think should be tortured is none else but you. One who you think should be enslaved is none else but you. One who you think should be killed is none else but you. A sage is ingenuous and leads his life after comprehending the parity of the killed and the killer. Therefore, neither does he cause violence to others nor does he make others do so.
10. Jainism. Acarangasutra 5.101-2
The Ariyan disciple thus reflects, Here am I, fond of my life, not wanting to die, fond of pleasure and averse from pain. Suppose someone should rob me of my life… it would not be a thing pleasing and delightful to me. If I, in my turn, should rob of his life one fond of his life, not wanting to die, one fond of pleasure and averse from pain, it would not be a thing pleasing or delightful to him. For a state that is not pleasant or delightful to me must also be to him also; and a state that is not pleasing or delightful to me, how could I inflict that upon another?
As a result of such reflection he himself abstains from taking the life of creatures and he encourages others so to abstain, and speaks in praise of so abstaining.
11. Buddhism. Samyutta Nikaya v.353
A certain heathen came to Shammai and said to him, “Make me a proselyte, on condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot.” Thereupon he repulsed him with the rod which was in his hand. When he went to Hillel, he said to him, “What is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor: that is the whole Torah; all the rest of it is commentary; go and learn.”
12. Judaism. Talmud, Shabbat 31a
Sutta Nipata 705: Cf. Dhammapada 129-130, p. 478. Acarangasutra 5.101-2: Cf. Dhammapada 129-130, p. 478. Samyutta Nikaya v.353: The passage gives a similar reflection about abstaining from other types of immoral behavior: theft, adultery, etc. To identify oneself with others is also a corollary to the Mahayana insight that all reality is interdependent and mutually related; cf. Guide to a Bodhisattva’s Way of Life 8.112-16, p. 181; Majjhima Nikaya i.415, p. 465.
“Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?” Jesus said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets.”
13. Christianity. Bible, Matthew 22.36-40
Matthew 22.36-40: Cf. Deuteronomy 6.4-9, p. 55; Leviticus 19.18, p. 173; Luke 10.25-37, p. 971; Galatians 6.2, p. 974; Brihadaranyaka Upanishad 5.2.2, p. 972; Sun Myung Moon, 9-30-79, p. 150.
Anon, Scripture and Church teaching do allow admonishmnet of the person commiting sinful acts. Judging a person and admonishing a person should not be conflated. Admonishment is a warning, not a final determination by someone about the status of someone’s soul.
Bravo kaves1, thanks for correcting Anony…or joan, whom ever that was…..she needed it. All this false compassion is not from our Lord…if they feared the Lord, they would understand closer to the truth why homosexual acts are truly acts against the natural law and is an act against the soul.
Matt 7:2-5 “For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged [if we judge with an evil heart or dark intent, His judgment of us will reflect it; if we judge nobly with honesty and justice, His judgment of us will reflect that, too], and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you [if we use extremes or exaggerations or other ignoble means, His judgment of us will reflect it and judging with fairness and compassion will garner likewise in His judgment of us]
joan you are pretty sneaky aren’t you. How dare you use this biblical scripture to desensitize sin. God has already judged these sins from same sex attractions…..your quote does not apply….people can judge that those sins lead to hell if one does not repent and as for your quote from another comment saying mentioning the Pope. There is NO SUCH THING AS A GAY PERSON IN GOOD WILL! NO SUCH THING! GET IT! If there was, then the word gay would not be used in the person itself…we must hold respect for the human dignity and describing a persons as “gay” is not God’s terminology, never was! And if we truly know that our Lord never changes(as mentioned in holy scriptures), then we know that it will never be!
Your mentioning of these things in this thread of Anti-prop 8 must show your dislike for Prop 8…just admit those things but don’t bring our Lord and His holy word into this because you are twisting the truth to satisfy your pro-gay agenda and of it’s acceptance! Turn from your bad will and follow Jesus….The Real Jesus!
A. Christian, I disagree with you 100%, even without Pope Francis saying this: “Who am I to judge a gay person of goodwill who seeks the Lord?” the pontiff told a news conference in response to a question. “You can’t marginalize these people.” The Pope said that not me.
joan I know you disagree but it is not my words, I have not made them up…they come from fearing the Lord…..and His teachings….
Fear the Lord! Love Him over all…..you are taking this opportunity to stain this good Pope’s name and he fell into the trap of the many pro-gay rights crowd but we know better,….so your tactic wont work. It’s shameful to use this time to fool others but since you live in this deception, misery loves company! I suggest you embrace what the saints actually said about homosexuality. They are the church….trace back the traditions handed down to us from God almighty, our Alpha and Omega!
Also you do not disagree with me…it is the church with whom you disagree. I have nothing to do with it, I just submit and love Jesus and have decided to take up my cross and walk with Him. So yes many will reject His message of salvation.
Eusebius of Caesarea
“[H]aving forbidden all unlawful marriage, and all unseemly practice, and the union of women with women and men with men, he [God] adds: ‘Do not defile yourselves with any of these things; for in all these things the nations were defiled, which I will drive out before you. And the land was polluted, and I have recompensed [their] iniquity upon it, and the land is grieved with them that dwell upon it’ [Lev. 18:24–25]” (Proof of the Gospel 4:10 [A.D. 319]).
Apparently, Abeca, the Bishop of Rome disagrees with you about gays of good will.
As for whether being called “gay” is of God. Well is being called “left handed” of God? Is being called blue-eyed of God?
It is you YFC, you are no closer to our Pope than I for we have not the luxury to speak with him personally to really know. BUT we do know what the church has always taught and still does on said subject…so don’t weasel your deception into this….we know the truth.
True lay Faithful pray that this Pope corrects the scandals he has allowed to happen by his comments to the secular. He needs to be clear, if not, I urge everyone to send him copies of what the church teaches about homosexual acts and send him copies of these threads. He needs to be made aware, in case he doesn’t know already, if he is as humble as he appears, then the Holy Ghost will prompt him.
The church can not stress enough how sinful same sex unions are and we can not allow deception to be taught or mislead many into believing that our church has changed those views because God does not contradict Himself! NEVER! HE IS PERFECT, He is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end!
Basil the Great
“He who is guilty of unseemliness with males will be under discipline for the same time as adulterers” (Letters 217:62 [A.D. 367]).
“If you [O, monk] are young in either body or mind, shun the companionship of other young men and avoid them as you would a flame. For through them the enemy has kindled the desires of many and then handed them over to eternal fire, hurling them into the vile pit of the five cities under the pretense of spiritual love. . . . At meals take a seat far from other young men. In lying down to sleep let not their clothes be near yours, but rather have an old man between you. When a young man converses with you, or sings psalms facing you, answer him with eyes cast down, lest perhaps by gazing at his face you receive a seed of desire sown by the enemy and reap sheaves of corruption and ruin. Whether in the house or in a place where there is no one to see your actions, be not found in his company under the pretense either of studying the divine oracles or of any other business whatsoever, however necessary” (The Renunciation of the World [A.D. 373]).
“[T]hose shameful acts against nature, such as were committed in Sodom, ought everywhere and always to be detested and punished. If all nations were to do such things, they would be held guilty of the same crime by the law of God, which has not made men so that they should use one another in this way” (Confessions 3:8:15 [A.D. 400]).
The Apostolic Constitutions
“[Christians] abhor all unlawful mixtures, and that which is practiced by some contrary to nature, as wicked and impious” (Apostolic Constitutions 6:11 [A.D. 400]).
“For this cause God delivered them up to shameful affections. For their women have changed the natural use into that use which is against nature. And, in like manner, the men also, leaving the natural use of the women, have burned in their lusts one towards another, men with men working that which is filthy, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was due to their error. . . . Who, having known the justice of God, did not understand that they who do such things, are worthy of death; and not only they that do them, but they also that consent to them that do them.”—Romans 1:26-27, 32
“Be not deceived, God is not mocked.” —Galatians 6:7
The first statement of a Church council on homosexual practices was issued by the Council of Elvira (305-306). The decree excludes from communion, even in articulo mortis (at the moment of death), the stupratores puerorum (corrupters of boys). The decree of the Council of Ancyra, held in Asia Minor in 314, strongly influenced the Church of the West, and it was often cited as authoritative in later enactments against homosexual practices. Canon 17 speaks about those “who . . . commit [acts of] defilement with animals or males.” The Council of Ancyra established for these crimes a series of punishments according to the age and state of life the infractor.
and most important:
Pope Saint Siricius (384-399) issued norms for admission into the priestly state. They apply indirectly to homosexuality: “We deem it advisable to establish that, just as not everyone should be allowed to do a penance reserved for clerics, so also a layman should never be allowed to ascend to clerical honor after penance and reconciliation. Because although they have been purified of the contagion of all sins, those who formerly indulged in a multitude of vices should not receive the instruments to administer the Sacraments.”
joan, because the pope used the term ‘gay’ in reference to homosexuals in an off-the-cuff remark does not mean other Catholic’s should use the term. I do not like to use the term because it corrupts the original meaning of the word. From my experience to most people ‘gay’ signifies a practicing homosexual, though this is not always true. If a ‘gay’ person is striving to remain celibate, then I agree with the pope’s comment; otherwise, if the ‘gay’ person is openly acknowledging is practice of homosexual acts, then that person should be admonished according to Church teaching.
The colloquial term “gay” as it’s used in reference to homosexuality only identifies the fact that a person is homosexual or has a homosexual orientation. It is used in reference to a person’s sexuality only and it in no way carries with it any inference or connotation what so ever – politically or otherwise – as to whether a homosexual person is active sexually, what activities they might engage in, or to what degree. It is similar in use to the word “straight” when referring to heterosexuals. In both regards, these are generic terms.
Peter, that may be, but I still won’t use it. It corrupts the meaning of gay.
It IS a meaning of gay . . .
Peter, not for me.
I disagree that using the term “Straight” to denigrate normal heterosexuals is simply “Generic” – and assert this Gaystapo Slur plays in to the Thought Policing Pogrom known as ‘the Politics of Adversarial Terminology’.
The politically correct oft seek to Prevent Debate using a ‘Chomsky’ facade, where the language itself limits the concepts and the ‘victors’.
(*creating the illusion that there’s a debate going on, but making sure that that debate stays within very narrow margins. … make sure that both sides in the debate accept certain assumptions….”—Noam Chomsky…)
Compare the juxtaposition of Gaily Light Hearted and Happy People – Some purportedly hailing from the Greek Island of Lesbos… Versus –
– Actually I know of no normal heterosexuals who describe themselves as members of a Rigidly Narrow Linear and Unbendingly Straight “Vanilla” – as they are characterized by the bought and paid for ‘free press’…
-Who need ‘Straight Men’ to contrast with ‘Happy’ buggers they might otherwise have to Gaily discuss in terms of the Pathological nature of their coprophile behaviors.
As also with the Separatist / Exterminationists ‘Turkey Baster Creationists’ who stage the annual SF Dyke March, and their Goal of creating: “A World Devoid of Men”.
I suppose that at least as far as the lamesteam media is concerned, it is safer for their own careers and lives to refer to them as Greek Islanders – rather than Rabid Misandrists, evidence to the contrary notwithstanding.
But that doesn’t mean we have to follow suit with this Orwellian ‘newspeak’ either.
Pope Francis is more than likely moving toward the old US Military model of “Don’t Ask Don’t Tell. “When I meet a gay person, I have to distinguish between their being gay and being part of a lobby. If they accept the Lord and have good will, who am I to judge them? They shouldn’t be marginalized. The tendency [to homosexuality] is not the problem … they’re our brothers.”
joan, he said he has to distinguish between being homosexual and being part of a homosexual lobby. If a man is trying to enter the priesthood, I suspect some questions will be asked. I don’t have a problem with a man entering the priesthood with a homosexual inclination, per se. I do have a problem if that man advocates for the Church changing its teaching on homosexual acts.