On July 3, 2012, CalCatholic reported that Maria Eitz, a member of the liturgy committee at San Francisco’s St. John of God parish, had been ordained a deacon into the Roman Catholic Womenpriests movement. A follow-up article on May 13, 2013 “Women’s ordinations identify rotten parishes” further explored the issue of women being allowed to serve in important parish ministries while in process of excommunicating themselves from the Catholic Church.
It is difficult to believe that other parishioners of St. John of God, let alone her fellow members of the liturgy committee were unaware of or opposed to Eitz’s affiliations. In 2013, the Vatican sent out a survey to bishops and pastors asking them to sample the opinions of parishioners on issues pertaining to marriage and the family, in preparation for the Synod on the Family, now being held in Rome. The publication, on the St. John of God website, of the parish’s response to the Vatican’s ‘survey’ on the family proves that Eitz was indeed no outlier at St. John’s—and proves that the appellation “rotten parishes” was no misnomer, at least if the parish is ostensibly Catholic.
St. John of God’s response to the first question of the survey is representative, both in content and tone. The Vatican’s question is in italic, the response in plain text:
“a) Describe how the Catholic Church’s teachings on the value of the family contained in the Bible, Gaudium et spes, Familiaris consortio and other documents of the post-conciliar Magisterium is understood by people today? What formation is given to our people on the Church’s teaching on family life?
“Humanae Vitae, as it relates to birth control, is a seriously flawed document, ignoring the sense of the faithful. It should be withdrawn and re-written to reflect the significant majority of the committee that studied this matter as part of Vatican II.
“Further, there is a need to re-examine what is meant by ‘family’. The words ‘Marriage to be sure is not instituted solely for procreation’ are accepted. The Church will marry a 60-year old man and woman. The emphasis should be on mutual love and support — which applies equally to gay unions, which have proved as committed and enduring as heterosexual ones. In addition, there is a significant number of gay adoptions of children and the statistics indicate results equal to those of heterosexual adoptions. If we have rejected ancient Hebrew views regarding polygamy, slavery and stoning for adultery and heresy, isn’t it also time to reject ancient views concerning homosexuality?
“Also, the words ‘Women must be affirmed as participants in cultural life, and they ought not to be denied the right to cultural benefits equal to those of men’ are hollow until such time as women have full equality for all church positions and an equal say in the distribution of power. ‘Separate’ is not ‘equal’. To cite “tradition” as an excuse ignores the role of Mary Magdalene and other specifically named women in the New Testament. If tradition were all that important, then why is a tradition established directly by Jesus — namely, choosing a married person as Pope — disregarded?”
St. John of God’s full reponse to the survey may be found by clicking here.
All bishops of the world have been asked to poll religious and lay people regarding their opinions about issues of family life in the church.
This is not true.
But, Anonymouus, a great many of the national Bishop’s councils did sent the questionnaire out to most Bishops, and they in turn got it out to the lay people. Some only gave it to those in leadership and consultative bodies while others put it on the web. The Vatican got a good representation of what the people are thinking.
The Instrumentum Laboris is based on the responses to the questions in the Preparatory Document which was divided into 8 groups of questions on marriage and the family. After its publication in November, 2013, this document was distributed worldwide. A great number of detailed responses to the questions was submitted by the synods of the Eastern Catholic Churches sui iuris, the episcopal conferences, the departments of the Roman Curia and the Union of Superiors General. In addition, other responses — categorized as observations — were sent directly to the General Secretariat by a significant number of dioceses, parishes, movements, groups, ecclesial associations and families, not to mention academic institutions, specialists, both Catholic and non-Catholic, all interested in sharing their reflections.
Bob One, please go back and read this article.
Why do people have trouble with obedience,
and the CCC ?
If they hate the Catholic Church so much, why don’t they just leave ?
The Synod is a big mess.
People who don’t know the reasons for, or do not believe Church teaching, are all given significant input – including heretical Cardinals.
The link to the “parish responses” to the synod survey shows that the Spirit of God is far from this parish. They are in obvious need of a St. John Vianney/Padre Pio type there.
Pray them there.
Whether this woman likes it or not, Jesus was a male as were all of His chosen Apostles.
These (excommunicated) women-priests need to go.
Please notify Abp Cordileone of the San Francisco Diocese as to what St. John of God Parish is doing.
This Abp sure inherited a cesspool from the previous Bishop.
Where is the AB? Have not seen or heard from him in several weeks. In this case he knew about this but did nothing. In other words he does not want to get involved which is his style. Sad, very sad.
Where is he indeed? There have been many items in this blog and elsewhere that indicate the archbishop hasn’t done very much.
Jesus was a deity inhabiting the human body most suited to the mission in the time and place in which he was incarnate. His genitalia played no role in his message.
If Jesus had been born a Jesusita, you probably would never have heard of her. St. Paul would certainly not have been evangelizing about her, nor would any account of her have survived the misogyny of Augustine or Thomas Aquinas.
Being male served a functional purpose that navigated the limitations of the humans that followed.
Jesus didn’t exist to set the prevailing culture of his moment on earth (or the few subsequent centuries) forever in stone…
One can only blame the previous administration for so long.
This article makes an excellent point –
Every Diocese Bishop should review ALLthe responses from each of the Parishes in his Diocese.
This will show where the teaching work needs to be done due to heresy, etc.
And if any parish Priests need to be retaught or defrocked.
The purpose of the questionnaire sent out prior to the Synod tried to determine what the people thought about the teachings of the church and how well they knew the teachings of the church. Every report I have read indicates that most lay people don’t know the teachings of the church, and those that do don’t agree with a lot of them. I’ll go out on a limb here, but I will bet that the majority, or close to the majority of people in the U.S. disagree with the church’s teachings on same-sex marriage, inability to go to communion if divorced and remarried, male only priesthood, and a number of other family related issues. That doesn’t make them horrible people, just uneducated about church teachings. It also reflects a desire to pick and choose what we believe and what we go along with. If I were a member of the Synod, I would likely use the information from the surveys to design new ways to train seminarians, find new ways to discuss and educate people about church teachings, etc. But I would not bring down the gauntlet of excommunication for those who have not reached complete formation yet.
“But I would not bring down the gauntlet of excommunication for those who have not reached complete formation yet.” Hmmm Bob One do you honestly believe that people like Gov Andrew Cuomo who actively rejects Church teaching should not be at least denied communion. If I was Cardinal he would be excommunication along with Pro-abort Catholic politician, its long past time to throw down the gauntlet. The AmChurch will eventually crumble, my prediction is that Cathedrals like St. Patrick’s within 100 will either be sold off or become museums, that will be the true fruit of Vatican 2
The questionnaire is a fraud, and a classic trick in debate or political circles to try to show support for this or that position. Many, many people never saw or were informed of a questionnaire, or that they (versus a select group) might contribute a voice in it. Further, the questionnaire approach is a poor way to establish, or reverse centuries old religious doctrine and “pastoral” behavior. In fact, use of a “popular voice” is inconsistent with the notion of religion and religious truth (unless you are Martin Luther).
“Bob One” has a valid point in showing another weakness. Most Catholics are stupid about their Faith, so how can they accurate respond to questions about belief? They do so by their understanding of American politics, which is why they often say that it is “unfair” that women are not priests, and all that. The questionnaire gives their views, by definition, more legitimacy, and takes away from the indisputable power of Faith.
“Canisius” is also correct. The Church simply must, now, stand up and crush its apparent assent to the immoral positions taken by Gov. Cuomo, for example, and Joe Biden, Nancy Pelosi, and all of Lucifer’s Team. But, it is likely that those in power will do nothing, except have good parties, travel first class everywhere, congratulate themselves on more “Springtimes'” while order after order (except for Traditional ones) dies, and more and more churches, Catholic schools and facilities close. It is the end of institutional Faith.
God always seems to work with a small remnant. ” And will not God revenge his elect who cry to him day and night? And will he have patience in their regard? I say to you that he will quickly revenge them. But yet the Son of man, when he comes, shall he find faith on earth? Lk 18:7-8
Throughout history God has infused the Holy Spirit into one man or woman to right the wrongs of the church leaders. It must be getting close to the time for God to save His Church from grave error. St. Catherine of Siena, Francis of Assisi, Francis de Sales pray for us.
These responses show a formation by the world, not by the teachings of the Church, thus trying to conform the Church to the worldly way of living, rather than to lift up the soul to a fuller life in the grace of God.
Most of us priests don’t touch these issues. Be assured that when we do, we are attacked from all sides frequently and viciously, accused of all sorts of things especially of being guilty of the immorality that we must condemn, and it is hard for many of us to work under that criticism if our superiors don’t back us up.
Still it is the priest’s work to teach, guide, and sanctify with the word, the catechism, and the sacraments in season or out of season, enduring whatever it takes for the salvation of souls. Pray for us as we pray for you.
You have my prayers, Father. For much like a priest, parents are obliged to teach in season and out. It is seemingly a thankless job, but the long term fruits are well worth getting beat up. Truly.
God will reward you.
O my Jesus, I beg You on behalf of the whole Church … give us holy priests. You yourself maintain them in holiness.
O Divine and Great High Priest, may the power of Your mercy accompany them everywhere and protect them from the devil’s traps and snares, which are continually being set for the souls of priests.
May the power of Your Mercy, O Lord, shatter and bring to naught all that might tarnish the sanctity of priest, for You can do all things. – St. Faustina (Diary, 1052)
Thank you Father Perozich! My entire family and relatives will read your words and we will keep you in our prayers. Thank you for teaching the truth and for truly caring about the salvation of souls. We are so very grateful to God for your faithfulness. God is never outdone in generosity.
We value and love our faithful priests. How much more must God love them! Thank you also for keeping all of us in your prayers!
Yesterday I had a long telecon with a Bishop that does try to uphold teachings of the Church, and he knows he will come under MORE attacks, but he assures me he intends to seek what God wants first. We also discussed the plight of far too many priests. Pray for him as he and we pray for you.
May God have Mercy on an amoral Amerika and His Church!
Viva Cristo Rey!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher,
Father, One way to teach without getting attacked is to acknowledge (quote from),
and encourage the Laity to read the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition” or quote from the “Bible”.
That way no one can accuse a Priest of another of making things up.
Lean on Jesus and Mother Church. They are there for all of us, if we make use of their Words.
“Quoting” is the best.
See “What Catholics REALLY Believe SOURCE” for quotes from Popes John Paul II, Benedict and Francis.
It is very unclear who wrote the responses.
They are quite appalling but this is exactly what the Vatican was trying to find out:
Why are our teachings not being accepted and followed?
I just quickly looking though the St. John of God website and I saw the word, “Christ,” exactly one time–in the St. John of God Prayer, which, actually, is shown twice. These people are Catholics? As I’m sure a member of that parish would say, “Pu-lezze.”
Larry, I just looked at the SJOG bulletin, and it looks like any other Catholic Church bulletin. The web site is like any other.
The wrjiter Marianne (above) got her wish: ” If people hate the Catholic Church so much, why don’t they just leave?” And leave they did, by the tens of miillions here in the USA since the 1960s, “Former Cathilics” are now the seond largest religious denomination in the country. OUr church is devising programs to get these Cathilics back, even while recogninznig that many of the reasons why they left in the first place remain in place….issues like birth control, divorce and remarriage, alienation, that kind of thing, still divide people. Pope Francis is focusing on the individual Cathilic and wants them back, but as we see today there is still a market for telling all of those who left “good riddance”….
“Anonymous”: People left because the Church, after Vatican II, said that it did not really matter anymore. You miss the point entirely. Faith became inwardly directed, to whatever the person felt — the conscience was supreme. The Silly Synod does not break new ground at all, as much as reaffirm awful Vatican II inspired practices and beliefs. Twisting the Church to embrace the modern, the now, is simply and truly perverse. Francis (and no Pope) can successfully welcome back the man who only wants to do what he wants. The Prodigal Son did not come back to the Father and say, “I need more money so that I can continue to live a degrading life”. Rather he said, “Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee, I am not now worthy to be called thy son”. Luke 15:21 (DRA) They go that want to go; Christ gave his life for the many (“pro multis”). Changing the Church’s position on the stuff you list means nothing, except Time Magazine might name you Man/Person of the Year, and you get a worthless Noble Peace Prize. Satan wants you to adore him.
St. Christopher, it might be a good idea to ask the people who left WHY they left, don’t you think, instead of just spouting our best guesses, don’t you think? I can tell you why my Mother left the Church, and raised her kids outside of it: Because she married a non-catholic outside the Church and without her parents permission. The parish priest then made a public scene by asking all of her friends and family about the marriage and made it clear she was never to set foot in his church again. And she never did. And her kids (except for me) didn’t either. I had to convert to catholicism as an adult, but I carry with me the pain that this stupid pastor inflicted on her.
… much as you love your mother, YFC, there is no ‘spouting off’ by St. Christopher, but rather years of watching, interviewing, and suffering the fallout of folks leaving in droves.
There are far more stories out there besides yours.
As for the pain inflicted by the ‘stupid’ pastor, your mother, if she was raised Catholic and knew the Faith understood full well that she was not truly married. Despite how she felt. Being caught out is not something that folks like, most especially when they already know what they chose to do wasn’t what it should have been. And your mother must have known – otherwise, I cannot understand why she wouldn’t have approached the priest simply to call him out for, “Whatever was the matter?!”
You had to convert to Catholicism, YFC, because your mother chose not to remain faithful to the teachings of the Church. That was her decision – at least as far as you’ve described. Or was she kidnapped and forced to wed?
The priest yelled at me excuse is the very much the same as blaming one’s life on a parent who yelled at you. There’s a shelf life, YFC. But I’m glad you sought out the Truth.
Neither you nor St Christopher have any idea why people left the Church. I think they leave the Church because of experiences like my mothers, because of a child abuse scandal that has gone on for decades without being convincingly dealt with, because women are denied leadership positions, because Humanae Vitae was rejected by the faithful in droves yet is thrust down family’s throats, because their parish priests rarely deliver homilies that have anything to do with life or faith, and because the faithful have found too many distractions to take the Sunday Obligation seriously and then slip into lapsed status, and because big time protestants have snatched many good Catholics away with razzle dazzle. It’s my opinion. I can’t prove it, but I’d be will ing to bet I’ve nailed it.
Before Vatican II, a Catholic was not permitted to marry a non-Catholic in the church but had to be married in the rectory, if they got permission. Catholics were not to attend a mixed marriage ceremony that was held outside of the church as in a Lutheran church.
YFC, you don’t need to prove your opinion, but stating your ‘opinion’ while intimating that others do not ‘know’ why many Catholics left only detracts from the validity of any of your statements. (Why? Because those you deride were Catholics then and now with plenty of friends, family, and acquaintances with myriad stories.)
Your view of Humanae Vitae – being ‘thrust’ down throats – is also indicative of a less-than-Catholic formation.
Not taking the Sunday obligation seriously is endemic of Catholics being lured by a world that doesn’t think anything should be taken seriously, YFC. Except perhaps a woman’s ‘need’ for a leadership role outside that of forming solid Catholic children who understand how to take up responsibility and live the actual Faith. There is a direct correlation between ill formed Catholic children and the glaring rejection of women not valuing the need for the job that God gives. Getting mom’s away from children by deriding the job as insignificant or third-class has proved a wonderful campaign of Satan.
You write: “…the ‘faithful’ have found too many distractions to take the Sunday Obligation seriously and then slip into lapsed status.”
The distractions are the world, the flesh, and the Devil, YFC. And the ‘faithful’ are not those that get distracted, but rather those that take obligations of Faith seriously – be it attending mass on Sundays and/or keeping within the laws of the Church with regard to marriage. Being faithful in little things leads to being able to manage fidelity to bigger things. You don’t need to bet anything to grasp that.
Well said Ann, the essence of YFC;s opinion is that of the self, people left the Church because THEY were no being satisfied. The concepts of carrying your cross, repentance, fortitude are completely alien to people like YFC. They do not recognize the fullness of Truth and they will pay the price for it…
…and yet,Canisius, many of those who hold the views of YFC have been formed that way intentionally. Much like some who seek to come back to the Church now who, despite real penitence and a desire for doctrine, are led to believe that the ‘real’ reason they left was because the Church was too Medieval and demanding.
It’s like returning to an estranged spouse because you are penitent and wish to own up to and amend your previously boorish behavior only to be told, “You did nothing wrong. It was me, not you.” And then the offended spouse pretends that treating him/her like a bad rug is the right thing to do.
It isn’t. And it makes a total waste of what could be a very fruitful return of the Prodigal.
YFC, your mother chose to inflict things on herself. No one but herself made her commit mortal sin.
Back then, as well as today, the Bishop’s permission is needed to marry a non-Catholic. And getting married outside the Church is not permitted for a valid marriage.
See your CCC # 1633 – 1637.
God gave everyone a free will. They can choose Heaven or Hell based upon their own free-will actions.
My mother did not ask the priest to snoop around the town behind her back and investigate why she married my father. That is not what the Church teaches. The priest was creepy and stupid and I don’t blame my mother for being upset.
Perhaps the priest was merely acting like the shepherd he is called to be, attempting to discern the whereabouts of a lost sheep who, for all intents and purposes, chose to remain hidden if not lost.
And being ‘upset’ is no cause to deny the Faith. Emotions are real, but need to be dealt with, not put above reason.
Ann Malley, are you just silly? The Church before Vatican II was not known for its pastoral priests. I guess you are not old enough to know what it was really like.
Lots of people left the Church before Vatican II and after because of how they were treated by priests.
Stop being such a hypocrite.
Why is OK for you to quit the Church but not YFC’s mother?
(Neither of you should have, it is true.)
You are operating again under your own false narrative of what it means to ‘quit the Church’, mous. (Your only argument.) You may want to do a self examine to determine if you have left the Faith. Taking up real estate in the pew is not having Faith, mous.
That said, you may want to revisit the reality that Our Lord said He would vomit the tepid out of His mouth. Tepid being those who sit on the fence of wanting salvation, but not wanting to keep the Faith, whole and entire. The ‘pastoral’ get-into-heaven-free card is not real, mous.
Before Christ’s second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers. The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth will unveil the “mystery of iniquity” in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth. The supreme religious deception is that of the Antichrist, a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and of his Messiah come in the flesh
Note: The apostasy will be from the truth. And apostasy from the Truth is precisely what is being proposed via false obedience and pseudo-mercy.
Ann Malley, you said that you left the Church for 29 years.
I do not appreciate your insults. If I only take up space in a pew, why have I tried so often to convince you of your errors and sin?
You are so incorrect about me, about the Church and about the apostasy. You are truly nothing but an anti-Catholic bigot.
As for the get into heaven card, there isn’t one as you will learn.
Learn the Catholic Faith.
St. Christopher, it is a mortal sin to miss one Mass, this is the teaching of the Catholic Church- before and after Vatican II.
People in California left the Church because spousal cheating was and is rampant, especially after the birth control (no birth, no control) pill was introduced. Besides the birth control pill being a carcinogen and abortifacient in many cases and killing women with cancer, does it solve the problem? No! I have known and do know people who have had two to four husbands or wives and some times lovers in between. I know a man who has had four wives, plus mistresses, and his fourth wife caught him cheating with his second, and so she left him. All but the first wife was on the birth control pill or had had tubal ligations. Some of the rest are “sticking” it to people of their own sex, many times after they have seen or lived with all the infidelity. Many of their children want nothing to do with them or are bonkers themselves. That’s it folks! That’s it in a nutshell.
I need to clarify something. I did not mean that all people who have left the Church were unfaithful spouses. That has been the case, though, in a awful lot of my experiences over the years, and I am a senior. These people, often family members, tried to involve me in their problems; I did not go snooping to find them, nor do I go house to house gossiping. Some left the Church or refuse to join the Church because of knowing about scandals such as this. I will let God pass judgment on each one of them, but people need to think before they cause such scandals. It does affect an awful lot of other people adversely, and we all know what Christ said about scandalizing his “little ones”.
I’m still not understanding the connection you are trying to draw, Anne T. How is it that unfaithful spouses (or spouses of unfaithful spouses) wake up and say, “wow, my spouse was unfaithful to me. I guess I will blame the Church.”. I’m sorry if I’m not understanding what you are trying to say, but it seems like you are saying people are blaming the Church for the unfaithfulness of their spouses. Just not sure the logic there.
Anonymous, the fact is that over the past 50 years
most Bishops and their Diocese Priests have not taught the Faith,
and that is why there is disunity within the Church and/or people leaving.
It appears to many people that the Church has no principles.
Your stated issues “like birth control, divorce and remarriage, alienation, that kind of thing, still divide people” – are sins that have always been there,
but people leaving is because of lack of teaching by those required to do so.
I would not want to be them on judgment day.
” My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge;
because you have rejected knowledge,
I reject you from being a priest to me.
And since you have forgotten the law of your God,
I also will forget your children. ” Hosea 4:6
The Radical Gender Feminist ‘Church Lady Mafiosa’ (and effeminate or homosex ‘priests’ in far too many Parishes has skewed the surveys and made sure that some of us were not counted – or our answers modified according to their politics.
As for the ‘Womyn-Pest’ Movement, like the Gaystapo attempting to Destroy the Church from the inside – they should instead set up their own ‘churches’ (even on street corners) and see if they can attract more than fleas and flies.
The Episcopal / Anglican Schism has shown that when it comes down to a Court fight over the ‘Church’, the Gaystapo / Twysted Systers get to keep the building and bank accounts, and the Faithful must meet under a tent in a parking lot – if lucky.
Catholicism in many respects has a similar schism – particularly the Hatred of so much of ‘catholic’ (small’s’) Educrats for the Teachings of the Magisterium – as evidenced by the denunciations of Saint John Paul II and Pope Emeritus Benedict the Wise and their great moral leadership.
In Sodom by the Sea (formerly the City of Saint Francis) the portrait of Pope Benedict the Wise was removed from Holy Redeemer Church because it offended the indulgent drag queens acting out their grotesque mockery of Real Catholic Nuns…
BTW – Such Real Nuns do exist and do great work, and should never be confused with the Twysted Systers trying to throw the Faith under the Bus.
Freshly minted lies from McDermott.
Disprove them YFC
Where is there any evidence for this horrible accusation? “The Radical Gender Feminist ‘Church Lady Mafiosa’ (and effeminate or homosex ‘priests’ in far too many Parishes has skewed the surveys and made sure that some of us were not counted – or our answers modified according to their politics.”
The answer is that there is no evidence. It was a lie made up out of whole cloth by McDermott.
And we’re supposed to take that on your word, YFC? Really?
When an accusation of the magnitude that McDermott makes, it is up to HIM to prove his accusation. As any judge will tell you, a person who has been shown to lie in one aspect of their testimiony can be assumed to lie in other aspects of their testimony. I have demonstrably proven that McDemott lies in his posts. Without any evidence or proof whatsoever, McDermott escalates accusations. If he isn’t lying, he could provide what evidence he has. But of course he offers none, because he has none.
Go back and re-read the article YFC.
I see a Church with homosexual priests and sex scandals that were homosexual in nature, like it or not. McDermott is not telling lie, you are just unhappy that the Truth hurts…
WHether there are homosexual priests has nothing to do with whether responses to the Synod questions were manipulated. if you are so deluded into believing every accusation made about gay people, then you are, well, deluded. Not to mention uncharitable and sinful.
Actually, I’m thinking Canisius is boldly speaking his opinion without fear or silencing. Isn’t that what the Holy Father wants folks to do?
Amen Fr. Perozich!
Here is a Priest who’s daily homilies really hit home.
We learn from them, and he teaches accurately.
The Sin of PRESUMPTION –
CCC: ” 2092 There are two kinds of presumption.
Either man presumes upon his own capacities, (hoping to be able to save himself without help from on high),
or he presumes upon God’s almighty power or his mercy (hoping to obtain his forgiveness without conversion and glory without merit). ”
CCC: ” 1861 Mortal sin is a radical possibility of human freedom, as is love itself. It results in the loss of charity and the privation of sanctifying grace, that is, of the state of grace.
If it is not redeemed by repentance and God’s forgiveness, it causes exclusion from Christ’s kingdom and the eternal death of hell,
for our freedom has the power to make choices for ever, with no turning back. …”
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting different results.
The primary response since Vatican II has been to seek accommodations with the secular culture through “dialogue,” a strategy that seems clearly to have failed in the 50 years since the Council.
Teach the truth of Jesus, accurately and completely – from the Bible and the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition”
then conversions will come.
All that is necessary for those who work for the Church’s destruction is to state that they accept the teaching of the Church while practically opposing it in every way.
There is apparently no limit to the benefit of the doubt contained in this well of deceit.
They are rebellious and disobedient children who truly place themselves outside the Church, but they will not leave. No, for the real work of destruction is inside and they have spent a century climbing to the positions where they can complete their work.
Insanity is also doing the same thing over and over again while knowing darned well what is going to happen, then doing it anyway.
Cardinal Burke had an excellent response to radical homosex activists trying to Mau May the Synod with propaganda dressed in drag as a ‘pity ploy’. I recommend the whole article, excerpted here:
Cardinal Burke responds to Australian couple’s Synod presentation on family’s gay son
Now with regard to parishes, the situation is very similar because the parish is — I believe it was Saint John Paul II who once said — a ‘family of families.’ And so, if you have a parish member who is living in public sin in a homosexual relationship, well, the priest should try to stay close to that individual — or to both the individuals if they’re Catholic — and try to help them to leave the sinful relationship and to begin to lead a chaste life.
The pastor [should] encourage them also to pray and to participate in Sunday Mass and other appropriate ways of trying to overcome grave sin in their lives.
Those people [who] are living in that way certainly cannot have any leadership role in the parish, because it would give the impression to parishioners that the way they are living is perfectly alright.
Because, [when] we lead in a parish, in a certain way, we are giving witness to a coherent Catholic life. And people who are not coherent with their Catholic faith aren’t given leadership roles.
They are not asked, for instance, to be a lector at the Holy Mass — or [to] assume some other leadership position — until they have rectified their situation and gone through a conversion of life and then are ready to give such leadership.
On the one hand, it certainly gives scandal to parishioners with regard to a very essential part of our life, our sexuality, [and] what it means.
On the other hand, it’s not good for the two people involved in the disordered relationship because it also gives them the idea that the Church somehow approves of what they’re doing.
St John of God Parish has been CRAZY for many years and this is why people come to it from all over the San Francisco bay area.
They do crazy things when it comes to Holy Communion, and the Word of God, and anything else they can get their hands on.
Why Archbishop Corleone has not CRACKED DOWN on this hotbed of lunacy is truly beyond me!!!!
Have you personally sent documentation about any of the crazy things you spoke about to the Archbishop?
(Bishops can not know everything that goes on within the Diocese. We each have an obligation to keep our Bishop informed.)
CCC: ” 907 In accord with the knowledge, competence, and preeminence which they possess, [lay people] have the right and even at times a duty to manifest to the sacred pastors their opinion on matters which pertain to the good of the Church,
and they have a right to make their opinion known to the other Christian faithful,
with due regard to the integrity of faith and morals and reverence toward their pastors, and with consideration for the common good and the dignity of persons.”
I agree that Diocese Bishops and their Parish Priests should use these survey’s to identify heresy,
and where their own teaching needs to be strengthened.
It is important to note that in most cases, the Laity in the pews did not know about the surveys, and did not get a chance to participate.
It is sad when heretics get into positions of power within a Diocese.
Anyone who does not adhere fully to the Bible and CCC should not have any positions within any Diocese at any level.
Well Oscar, let’s think about your statement: “Anyone who does not adhere fully to the Bible and CCC should not have any positions within any Diocese at any level.”
I know a Bishop who loves to eat shrimp. What should we do about him? The Bible says that is an abomination. How many time can a Bishop be married? The Bible say he should be married only once, that he should keep his children under control with perfect dignity, for if he can’t manage his own household, how can he take care of the church of God. Same with Deacons. Setting out strict requirements makes it hard for anyone to be a Christian. How about if we ask that they be holy, friendly, good stewards, etc.. No one adheres fully to the Bible. It is interpreted differently by scholars. Yes, it is the inerrant word of God, but only as interpreted by the Magisterium. Some is history, some is poetry, some is revelation, some is allegory, etc.. But, because we believe it is the revealed word of God, we adhere to what it is trying to teach, not just word for word.
Bob One, you are a heretic yourself. You clearly need to take a Bible study course. Your analogy is ignorant, because you left the CCC out of the equation. Do you know what the word “AND” means ?
Bible and CCC – which includes the Magisterium.
Adhering fully to SACRED SCRIPTURE –
CCC: 81 ” Sacred Scripture is the speech of God as it is put down in writing under the breath of the Holy Spirit.”
“And [Holy] Tradition transmits in its entirety the Word of God which has been entrusted to the apostles by Christ the Lord and the Holy Spirit. It transmits it to the successors of the apostles so that, enlightened by the Spirit of truth, they may faithfully preserve, expound and spread it abroad by their preaching. ”
CCC: ” 86 Yet this Magisterium is not superior to the Word of God, but is its servant.
It teaches only what has been handed on to it.
At the divine command and with the help of the Holy Spirit, it listens to this devotedly, guards it with dedication and expounds it faithfully. All that it proposes for belief as being divinely revealed is drawn from this single deposit of faith. ”
CCC: ” 100 The task of interpreting the Word of God authentically has been entrusted solely to the Magisterium of the Church, that is, to the Pope and to the bishops in communion with him.”
ANY Bishop who does not know the teaching of the Church/Magisterium regarding adhering to the Bible AND the CCC – should be removed from his office.
* * * * * ANYONE who does not adhere fully to the Bible AND CCC should NOT hold any positions within any Diocese Office.
The CCC contains the Doctrine of the Faith.
Footnotes in the CCC point to the Bible and Apostolic teaching tradition.
Oscar, people just don’t run around calling others heretics. Who are you to judge others? You quoted an appropriate section of the CCC. Holy Tradition, with a capital T is different from tradition with a lower case t. Holy Tradition is what we call the teachings of the Magisterium. The Bible is to be understood as the Magisterium has interpreted it and told us what to believe. That is their role as successors of the Apostles. Let’s keep in mind that one can read the Bible and the CCC in their entirety, and still not have faith. Growing in our faith is a life-long journey. The Bible is a good place to start, the CCC will help, frequent Communion helps, being a good person helps. But what is most important is that we develop a strong relationship with Christ. Rules alone will not save our souls and get us to heaven. But, faith will help get us there.
But please, Oscar, don’t run around calling people heretics. That borders on hate, and Christ is about love.
Wrong again Bob One, the biggest problem in the Church is that we do not point out heresies. This synod is marking the end, we will soon have adulterers officially receiving communion, gay marriages etc, when this happens the Apostasy will be complete and the Church will lose all claim to be founded by Christ, because will be going against the official doctrine of the Church. There will only be a remnant left you will have the parishes but we will have the Truth
Bob One –
Truth is truth.
For the Church’s definition of HERESY – see CCC 2089.
CCC: 2089 ….HERESY s the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same.”
You can not develop a strong relationship with Christ through lies.
Any Catholic who does not believe in REPENTANCE and a firm purpose of amendment is a HERETIC.
enjoy your fraudulent teachings of a counterfeit church