Name of Church St. Joan of Arc Church
Address 3801 E. Greenway Road, Phoenix, AZ 85032
Phone number (602) 867-9171
Mass times Saturday vigil 4:30 p.m.; Sunday 8:30 a.m., 10:30 a.m., 12:30 p.m. (Spanish). Monday – Saturday, 8:30 a.m. Monday, 6 p.m. Wednesday, 6 p.m. (Spanish)
Confessions Monday – Saturday, 8 – 8:25 a.m. Monday & Wednesday, 5:30 – 5:55 p.m. Saturday, 3 – 4 p.m. Also by appointment.
Names of priests Father Don Kline, pastor. Father John Ehrich, parochial vicar. St. Joan of Arc is a conservative/traditional-oriented parish in the diocese of Phoenix. Its pastor, Father Kline, has been active in both promoting vocations to the priesthood (he has served as a vocations director) and in the pro-life movement (including praying on-site at abortion clinics).
School Pre-school for ages 3-4.
Special parish groups and activities Perpetual adoration program, Respect Life including weekly rosary at local Planned Parenthood, Legion of Mary, Catholic Men’s Fellowship, Knights of Columbus, St. Vincent de Paul Society, groups for singles and seniors, Padre Pio prayer group.
Music There are a variety of choirs, including a Schola Cantorum which sings polyphonic pieces and motets, delving into the history of Sacred Music.
Fellow parishioners St. Joan of Arc is a predominantly English-speaking community in the nicer Phoenix suburbs.
Parking Ample parking in the lot.
Additional observations St. Joan of Arc was dedicated in 1999. It has a square interior which has been dressed up well with nice traditional art, including statues, pictures and stained glass, which enhances worship. It has a nice altar area and a large image of the Divine Mercy to the left of the altar. Its grounds are well maintained with many traditional statues of saints and angels. Eucharistic adoration is emphasized, as is the pro-life cause.
The author may wish to consult a map. The Church has a Phoenix zip code and is within the city limits.
So a church should be in a ‘nicer suburb’ to be worth driving to? Perhaps a little ‘code’ there?
You know what a nice neighborhood is, and you know what a nice neighborhood looks like when it’s described that way, mikem. It’s safe, attractive, well-kept, pleasing and relaxing to be in. Not “code”, just reality: there are objective differences between nice neighborhoods and a bad neighborhoods; it’s not a matter of subjective opinion. The descriptor makes it more likely that people will go out of their way to visit the church if they are unfamiliar with the large City of Phoenix. If it were described as being in a bad neighborhood do you think it would appeal to as many potential visitors?
mikem, you cannot compare a nice, sprawling, large Southwestern city, like Phoenix, to the harsh, highly-urbanized California! In San Francisco, where I live, there are many zip codes, in tiny geographical areas! Millions of people are crammed into tiny areas of land– and the “urbanized” quality of life, overall, is much poorer– and much more costly, too! The people here are not as friendly, not as family-oriented, with good family values, and there is a lot of immorality and crime! A suburb of a large, sprawling Arizona city (with lots of land!) like Phoenix, is a really nice place to live, and raise a family– or to retire, and grow old, too!
“Yes” to your question, mikem– there are many lovely suburbs, (nice, safe neighborhoods, with nice and affordable homes, for families to live in!) in the sprawling Phoenix city limits! Think of the word “suburb,” as “neighborhood,” with lots of nice family homes! There are many nice neighborhoods, or suburbs, in big sprawling Western cities, with lots and lots of land– and you may travel miles to each area, too! All in the city limits, of a big, sprawling Western city! That’s my ideal, of a GREAT place to live! Very friendly, and relaxing!
Quite the nice church, I see they have a traditional altar yet they have a needless one in front of the high altar, its nice to see the Novus Ordo altar with the Benedictine arrangement but there is no need for that altar since they have one, and where is the TLM? Also Cardinal Robert Sarah has stated that ALL priests should offer Holy Mass facing ad-orientem so as to worship God not the people!!
Exactly. Any Novus Ordo parish called “orthodox” is regarded as such only because of the number of features it retains (or returns to) from the traditional practice of the faith. Parishes like St. Joan of Arc (and a similar parish in Phoenix is St. Thomas the Apostle) need to finish their conversions and return to full traditional practice and architecture, starting with the TLM. It is very slowly dawning on neo-Catholicism that the return to the TLM is inevitable, eventually.
Janek and Ralph, how many sons do you have who have become priests that have learned to celebrate the TLM?
How much money have you given to dioceses for the express purpose of promoting the TLM where it is not currently celebrated?
Talk is cheap.
Besides, a return to the TLM exclusively is not the future of Catholic liturgy. The novus ordo Mass should be celebrated more reverently in most places; that’s the future of Catholic liturgy. The TLM is great, but it will always be a very small slice of Sunday worship for Catholics.
You talk about the TLM as if it’s a panacea for the Church’s ills.
Let the TLM influence the novus ordo Mass but not replace it.
Sawyer – Thanks for your personal criteria for TLM supporter credentials. I should pour money into other dioceses? That’s intelligent. I pour money into tuition at Thomas Aquinas College. How did you become clairvoyant on the future of the liturgy? Check out France – most mass goers there now attend the TLM. The NO “should be” celebrated more reverently, just not as reverently as the TLM, right? No – the standard for reverence is not a sliding scale. It’s been established in the TLM.
Ralph, you’re the one who said, “It is very slowly dawning on neo-Catholicism that the return to the TLM is inevitable, eventually.”
And you mock me for clairvoyance?
Sauce for the goose, et cetera.
You use France as an example? Something like less than 5% of baptized Catholics attend Mass at all in that country. Maybe most of the Mass-goers attend the TLM there, but it’s still a tiny, tiny number. France will succumb to Muslims before it will celebrate the TLM in large numbers.
Good luck in your studies. You’re at an excellent school.
Sawyer, why be so hard on Janek and Ralph?? Their posts show bravery and devotion to Our Lord, and to the beautiful, authentic, nearly 2000-year-old Tridentine Latin Mass! LOVE it! And this Mass has NOTHING TO DO, with silly MONEY, MATERIALISM, nor PRIEST-SONS!! RIDICULOUS!! The Catholic Church lost its heart and soul, on the day that it STUPIDLY killed its own Tridentine Mass! CRAZY!! Since that very day, I and perhaps thousands of others, have all daily prayed for the full return, someday, of our beautiful, old Latin Mass! Why not??
Sawyer, modern historians will say, that this is a Godless and cynical age, of materialism, science, and self-worship. Also, an age of psychological break-downs! An era WITHOUT GOD! The world needs CHRIST so much!! The Vatican is a victim of the whims of the world, too. Whoever would have dreamed, of all the crazy things, of the modern world of today, and of post-Vatican II– and its crazy, modern Mass? Whoever would have dreamed, of two popes, one “emeritis?” You never know, what the future may bring! Nice to dream, and to pray!
Today, yes– we have a brave, totally committed, TINY number of true French Catholic believers, called the “remnant,” perhaps– because that is all that is left, in today’s Godless, immoral, secular world– true to Christ, and practicing their Faith! That small, faithful number, is a JOY to Our Lord, I am sure! And to love, cherish, and promote their beautiful Tridentine Mass– is a special JOY!! To begin with– what is Notre Dame, or Sacre-Coeur, of Paris, or what is Lourdes– without the holy Tridentine Mass?? I can’t imagine it!
That’s precisely my point about France – the NO failed to support the religion. The Catholics drifted off. In what was formerly the most Catholic of countries. The remnant attends the TLM there. It’s not the NO that survived the carnage, it was the TLM. And I believe we’re on France’s path. The fact that there remain many NO parishes here, really isn’t dispositive. It’s ironic that many NO parishes pursue reverence, but as they do, what is presented becomes more like the TLM. Where to draw the line?
Post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy.
If nothing else about the world (or France) had changed other than the Catholic Mass switching from TLM to NO, you would have a strong case. As it stands, you don’t have a case because so much changed so quickly in the world between 1960 and the present.
You are letting your devotion to the TLM cloud your analysis.
Sawyer– the French people have a very old history with the Church! Their country has proudly also produced many Saints! The big secular changes of the world (most of these big changes are extremely decadent and immoral, and badly in need of corrections!) have NOTHING TO DO with the ancient, ageless, and eternal Church! Christ’s teachings are for all times, all peoples, and all places! The soul belongs to God, and not to the fallen, sinful secular world! I am still reciting the same prayers, and receiving the same Sacraments, with the same goal (Heaven!) as I did, in 1960!!
When young, I knew devout Catholic French families, who came to America to live, and they told of the evils of the French Occupation of Hitler, in WWII– and how their families tried to help the poor Jews, and help their own Frenchmen, too, suffering under evil Hitler. Their religious Faith helped see them through! Nothing lasts forever. Sometimes people die, sometimes horrible things happen— but in the end, everything passes— and God is above all things. We must always walk with God– and live as He says– it is always the same, everywhere, for all people, in all ages!
In 1960, we had a better Pope, a better Mass, a better priesthood, better prelates, better Catholic schools– and a better Nation, too! The Muslims are a passing thing, in history– they will NEVER defeat Christ! Instead, many will likely be led, by the Blessed Mother (as predicted!) to CONVERT TO CATHOLICISM!! Although European nations (especially France!) have suffered tragic cultural declines, in recent years– the true Catholic Faith, and especially the traditional Tridentine Latin Mass!– will endure forever!
Yes, TAC is a phenomenal school, but it’s my sons I pay tuition for there, not me. I am a founding parishioner of Mater Misericordiae Mission here in Phoenix, with TLM courtesy of the FSSP. And none of this is cheap.
Good for you, Ralph, for educating your sons at Thomas Aquinas College! Wonderful! Also, it is so wonderful that you are a founding member of Mater Misericordiae Mission, in Phoenix! May God bless all of your fine work, Ralph, for our Church! I attended a memorial Latin Trientine Mass at my church, when poor Fr. Walker was evilly killed by the gunman, at your church, and the poor pastor was also evilly assaulted– hope the pastor is doing better, and healing from the tragedy! We are richly BLESSED to have good Catholic laymen like you, Ralph!!
Ralph, why the competition? Why not let folks go where the Spirit leads them? I’m guessing that part of the exodus from the NO mass are weak catholics who didn’t prefer it,either because it went too far or because it didn’t go far enough, and still others who fled it when the TLM became available. In any case, it is a blessing when our community attends the Eucharist, and that we pray for each other and grow in unity and charity.
YFC– the reason good Catholics are discouraged from the Novus Ordo Mass– is that it is so poor! We all grew up with a very beautiful, theologically-accurate, ancient, authentic Mass! The Novus Ordo is cheap modern “junk,” with lots of dumb gimmicks, not very holy and reverent, by comparison! It is like trading beautiful, rare, authentic diamonds– for modern cheap imitation “junk!” Yes, the Novus Ordo is sanctioned, and much-preferred, by the worldly, modern Popes, and Vatican. Fine, if you like it. But it is definitely NOT a great Mass!
Linda Maria sometimes you say things that I wonder if even you yourself believe. You just called the sacrifice of the Mass, in which Jesus himself is pesent body blood soul and divinity “junk” Your words, not mine.If that isn’t satanic blasphemy, I don’t know what is.
YFC– you are wasting your time, writing this post! You should know very well, that I never called the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass “junk!” I think you know what I meant– that the modern post-Conciliar Mass is full of a lot of problems, and a lot of “junk,” which most people also complain about, all the time! Your post does no good! And to go to such a sickening, ridiculous extreme, of accusing me of “satanic blasphemy,” that’s so DUMB! Use your BRAIN, YFC!! I bet you yourself, get annoyed at times, with some of the problems, with the Novus Ordo Mass!
Good on ya, Ralph.
Excellent post and spot on observation. Sadly, there are those who feel they know best and take any discussion about reality as a personal affront.
The almost jubilant glee with which anyone could tout the Islamification of France before embracing a return to the Tridentine liturgy is amazing. It speaks of one who prefers to be right in their assertion of predictions rather than one concerned with the flock, the Faith or the salvation of souls.
The palpably strident and shrill glee with which devotees of the TLM deride the novus ordo Mass speaks of one who is not concerned with the flock, the Faith nor the salvation of souls.
Do you accept the validity and authority of Vatican II, Ann Malley?
I attend the TLM every once in a while; I enjoy it and appreciate it. It’s not going to be the driving force of a resurgence of apostolic zeal in the Church by itself. There are problems at my NO parish, but there the Church has an opportunity to reach far more souls.
Not one or the other exclusively: both the TLM and NO together.
To bash a good NO parish as two posters did near the top of the comments because it doesn’t have the TLM is silly and myopic.
Sawyer, I will try to answer your direct question again, although for whatever reason, CCD editors keep removing my reply to you.
I hold to the fullness of Catholic doctrine as perfectly clear prior to Vatican II. And as VII sought to define no new doctrine, then that renders me in the clear. For I take VII for what it was meant to be. A pastoral council that defined no new doctrine.
Unfortunately, it was a council of its time and therefore fell demonstrable victim to the excess of appeasement intended to make the Church appear to be more in light with modern thought.
Adherence to VII is no proof of Faith, Sawyer. Rather adherence to the fullness of the Deposit of the Faith. You may want to do further reading, even BXVI, with…
… regard to the troublesome language in VII.
Perhaps one day, if you listen, you may come to understand that not all those who attend the TLM do so out of mere preference. But until we stop putting words into each other’s mouths and feigning a superiority to that which is only pastoral, there will be no unity.
Statements like,” I enjoy it and appreciate it. It’s not going to be the driving force of a resurgence of apostolic zeal in the Church by itself,” is to double down on the misunderstanding.
Nobody is saying the TLM is a magic bullet by itself.
Sawyer, you sound like a very young Catholic man! Very full of yourself and your opinions! And with no respect for our beautiful Catholic traditions, our Tridentine Mass– nor respect and CHIVALRY towards good Catholic ladies!! WHY?? If I were you– I would have CHIVALRY and RESPECT towards the Catholic ladies who are devout and sincere– and read what they have to say, and then, write your own post! And you are free to attend the Mass of your choice!
…and how many sons do you have, Sawyer, or children for that matter?
I also found the question directed at Ralph, who has done so much for Mater Misericordia in Phoenix, “How many sons do you have who became priests and celebrate the TLM” inappropriate at best, and beneath your usually reasoned approach, Sawyer.
I have two daughters and a son, and although one does one’s best for them, tries to raise them in the Faith, etc, one doesn’t “decide” their lives for them, as doubtfully did your parents for you. And, as Ann Malley will attest, one’s children may “take flesh and blood” from us, by the grace of God, but they get their own mind from somewhere else indeed. (I always said they got their mind from Mrs. Phoenix, who definitely has a mind of her own.)
I’ve no doubt Mrs. Phoenix, whatever her opinion, is a woman of cultivated tastes. Nice post, Steve ;^)
Sawyer, it is FAITH alone, that established the Church to begin with, not money, nor politics, nor any worldly thing! And FAITH alone, has sustained true believers, through many persecutions, for 2000 years! FAITH alone, may someday conquer the Godless world– and move mountains! FAITH is a mighty gift! FAITH is all you need, to re-establish Christ’s beautiful Tridentine Latin Mass! Yes, we are all stuck with what the Vatican today wants. Yes, we see in front of our eyes, what is happening in today’s world. But what we see, can be quite deceptive! FAITH can move mountains, and always has, and always will!
Wrong, Linda: Christ established the Church. To say that faith established the Church risks making the Church the work of human beings.
Faith alone? Well, there you’re venturing into territory condemned by the Council of Trent.
Again, I disagree that the TLM is the panacea for the Church’s ills. Almost every TLM attendee is an ardent Catholic, but ardent Catholics may also be found at NO parishes. Sacramental grace is present and given at both. They are both the one Holy Sacrifice of the Mass; two valid forms of the Roman Rite.
TLM devotees make unnecessary enemies of NO devotees by their frequently strident criticisms of the NO Mass. If TLM devotees don’t want to be seen as an odd cult by most NO Catholics they should adopt a…
Grace at both, both valid. No argument there. However the TLM more accurately represents the faith, and therefore better supports it. God, not man, should be the focus. I’m interested in helping people. While many remain ardent with the NO as the only Mass they ever knew, maybe more have left the faith in its wake altogether. All Catholics should be aware of the history, the criticisms and the options. The suppression of the TLM will go down as horrific and shameful a chapter as any since the crucifixion.
No, Sawyer– you MISS THE WHOLE POINT!! Christ established His religion—- on FAITH!! He had no money, no earthly power, no nothing– just God! And God is all we need! WITH GOD, ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE!! That is all I was trying to say! You are very unnecessarily cruel to excellent posters, who are good, faithful, devout Catholics, the BEST in our Church!! RIDICULOUS, Sawyer! The Traditional Latin Mass, Sawyer, is NOT some kind of “fad”– it is the most ancient, authentic form of our holy Mass, the most accurate, theologically– and the VERY FINEST IN THE WORLD, liturgically! But it’s also fine, if you prefer the new Mass!
Sawyer, it is a terrible and SHAMEFUL thing, to condemn good, devout practicing Catholics, deeply devoted to the old Latin Tridentine Mass! One can scarcely compare the beautiful, old ORIGINAL, AUTHENTIC, TIMELESS, THEOLOGICALLY-ACCURATE Latin Mass– with the cheap, modern, experimental, secularized, gimmick-laden Novus Ordo Mass! It is like comparing cheap, un-authentic, poor, man-made diamonds– with beautiful, rare, authentic, timeless, REAL DIAMONDS!! Someday, the old Latin Mass may be re-established, permanently- due to the FAITH of true Catholic believers!
Linda Maria, I try to dish it out fairly. And I’ll take it too. It’s all in the aim of being accurate, honest and precise. Criticism is not necessarily cruelty.
In that vein, the TLM is decidedly NOT “the most ancient, authentic form of our holy Mass.” Some of the Eastern Rite liturgies are older, and the Chaldean Catholic Rite may go back farther than all the others.
The TLM is beautiful liturgically and theologically, truly worship elevated to a sublime art form. That doesn’t mean that it alone suffices.
The Catholic Church includes a variety of valid liturgical rites. That is often overlooked in the TLM versus NO debate. Those who argue for the TLM exclusively indirectly argue against the Church’s catholicity. We profess…
We profess faith in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church; not in a Roman Church nor in a TLM Church.
“Sawyer” you are so wrong. The TLM is the center and soul of Catholic worship. Cardinal Sarah suggests only a minor bandage to staunch the bleeding from an arterial rupture. The Novus Ordo Mass, while licit, it is an outlier “service” with little attachment to the historic Church. The Vatican would be more honest is the Pope came out and said, “look, there was a revolution and, well, we are in charge, and we are going to have a ‘chicken dinner Mass’ for the Sunday service. Like it or not.” You cannot simply destroy centuries of history, of service and devotion by the saints, to laud something created to attract Protestants.
Sawyer, you are correct. That was hard for me to say :). Most people in the U.S. and Europe only witnessed the Roman Rite until the 60s. There are many other Rites attached to the church of Rome. Even some of the professed orders have their own rites. The TLM is an ancient rite of the Church and was used for centuries. Go to Egypt and see if they use it there, outside the Latin Rite churches. They don’t. The TLM is a beautiful and holy rite, but not the only one approved by the Magisterium.
Well, regarding the claim that “the Eastern Rite liturgies are older”, there is no objective evidence of this, only speculative theory. Some also claim there was a “Greek-Aramaic” pre-liturgy: yet there is no surviving empirical evidence–only theorizing again. Most of these arguments surface out of some attempt to debunk the ancient Latin rite tradition and to justify the creation of the Concilium 1969 form.
It is best to say that all these uniate rites are equally ancient and developed synchronously from the tradition of the 12 Apostles: S. Peter in the Latin Rite, S. Thomas in the Chaldean rite, S. James in the Antiochene and Jerusalem patriarchies, S Mark in the Alexandria patriarchies and so on.
Sawyer, you are getting too carried away! You yourself must know– a Latin Rite Catholic does NOT go to Mass, at an Eastern Rite church! That is SILLY! Be realistic! For us– the beautiful old Latin Tridentine Mass, about 1500+ years old– is our most ancient, authentic, original Mass– and that is GOOD ENOUGH! As a true Catholic, you should cherish this Mass, study it historically, at least, and encourage others to do likewise!! I think you should support and encourage ALL SERIOUS DEVOUT CATHOICS, in whatever form of the Mass they choose!
Sawyer, go lecture elsewhere.
“…Faith alone? Well, there you’re venturing into territory condemned by the Council of Trent.”
That is an overt twisting of Linda Maria’s statement. She did not say that we are justified by Faith alone and THAT is what was condemned at Trent.
Ann Malley, if I went elsewhere who would point out your errors about Vatican II?
Do you or do you not accept the validity and authority of Vatican II? Why won’t you answer that question, Ann Malley?
I stand by my statement to Linda: I said she was venturing into territory condemned by Trent. You have drawn an unwarranted conclusion.
Sawyer, your misconception that Vatican II is the litmus test for Catholicity is a ruse. A golden goose to disregard the ambiguity therein so that you can continue to feign that the confusion of the flock is to be laid solely at the feet of the individual. (Compromise formulas are in the text of VII. They are being exploited. That’s not difficult to grasp if one looks at the texts for what they are instead of what they could be if using a decoder ring that is not mandated.)
Go forth and stand by “your” statements to Linda Maria. You have proven yourself to be more admiring of your own perceived orthodoxy instead of Catholic Faith.
You have drawn and continue to project your unwarranted conclusions of what constitutes bashing and…
… what motivates those who promote the TLM. But then proclaiming your assertions to be binding and true is what you do here.
So while you assert that others foment ill will, you negate your own willful misinterpreting of others as you seek to speak for them. Asserting what people know, do not know, and what moves them.
Sadly, that is wasted zeal which helps no one.
Ann: answer the question. Why do you refuse? Do you accept the validity and authority of Vatican II? Yes or no?
Contrary to your assertion, it’s not a ruse and it is indeed a sort of litmus test: for Vatican II was an act of the extraordinary universal magisterium, an ecumenical council. You cannot pick and choose which councils to accept and consider yourself to have Catholic faith. Catholic faith must accept all of the ecumenical councils.
Your abrasiveness toward me is probably because I am pushing you to reveal what you don’t want to reveal: that you reject Vatican II. If that is true, you reject Catholic faith. Ann, that’s the way it is.
Your orthodoxy is a fraud if you don’t accept Vatican II.
Answer the question…
Sawyer– Ann Malley is a very good, devout Catholic lady! Please leave her alone! Go write your own posts, and do not harass good, sincere Catholic ladies! This is just terrible, the way you write to her!
Sawyer, here you go again resorting to Sawyerisms. Since you prefer to tell others what they really think, and tell others what the Catholic Church requires (that is not required), I’ll leave you to your own magisterium.
The only litmus test here, is that of whether or not one follows whoever has formed you to be such an idealogue. Exacting clarity from others while promoting the wholesale endorsement of vagaries and ambiguity and novelty that, sadly, has reared its head inside Church documents that, by God’s grace, are only pastoral.
Okay, Ann, since it is clear to any fair-minded, objective person that you reject Vatican II (because you refuse to express support for that council after having been asked numerous times whether you accept it as valid and authoritative), let’s go further.
Are you a sedevacantist also? How far is your departure from the one, holy, catholic and apostolic faith?
You cannot pick and choose councils. Nor can you pick and choose popes. You cannot pick and choose, because then your faith isn’t Catholicism; it’s Annism.
I think that someday, our authentic, original Tridentine Latin Mass, will be the one that the Vatican truly desires– after it has gotten tired of its pointless love affair with Modernism, and the Godless, sinful, secular world! The accurate, timeless Truth of our Faith, is contained in the authentic, original Tridentine Mass! Someday, the Church will “wake up,” and return to her true Catholic roots– and respect her True Mass, for the precious gem from Heaven, that it truly is! Until then– at least, the Blessed Sacrament is still available, in the Novus Ordo Mass!
Linda Maria, I will never forget the horror when I was awakened by one of my sons at 2:30 in the morning with the news that Father Walker had been shot and killed. My son was telephoned as he one of Fr. Walker’s altar boys, and had served Father’s last Easter Mass. Thank you, your support means much.
Bless you, Ralph! Makes me cry! May your beautiful parish church, Mater Misericordiae, prosper and flourish, and be safe from all harm!
speaking of the TLM in the Phoenix area, did you all hear that Fr. Peter Carota from St. Catherine’s recently passed away?
Yes! Prayers for Fr. Peter Carota!
“The day the Church abandons her universal tongue [Latin] is the day before she returns to the catacombs.” – Pope Pius XII
“The use of the Latin language prevailing in a great part of the Church affords at once an imposing sign of unity and an effective safeguard against the corruptions of true doctrine.” – Pope Pius XII, Mediator Dei, 1947, Sec. 60
Catherine, what an excellent post! LOVE Pope Pus XII!! Thanks!
Thanks for the reminder, Catherine. Sadly, those who glob onto the must-be in the vernacular completely disregard the eternal nature of the Church and the demonstrable shifting of what words mean through the passage of time.
For the corruption of language is the corruption of understanding is the corruption of unity and the sowing of division.
That is how we can have Catholics who are opposed to the supposed harshness of saying adultery, sodomy, or heresy. In their proper context.
We shouldn’t rationally conclude anything from the evident implosion of the Catholic Church in the USA and around the world since Vat II, noting of course some very few bright spots (Africa; some parts of Asia: usually where a more traditional, morally-observant Church lives): that, we are told by the New Churchmen, their mantra now, is the logical “Post hoc ergo propter hoc.” (=”After this, because of this,” or, a consequence should not be determined from its preceding event.) Heavens, no! Do not believe your lying eyes.
Jesus Christ obviously was just as wrong when he advised His followers, “You shall know them by their fruit” (Mt. 7:16).
Some bitter fruit, by the way. Eat cheerily, then!