On Monday, October 1 Bishop Marc Andrus of the Episcopal Diocese of California, sent an official letter to his flock. It was titled “Letter to the Diocese of California concerning the installation of Salvatore Cordileone as Archbishop of San Francisco.” The letter, ostensibly welcoming Salvatore Cordileone as the ninth archbishop of the Archdiocese of San Francisco, attacked the incoming archbishop’s defense of natural marriage.
The letter began “On the Feast of Saint Francis, patron saint of our city by the bay, Salvatore Cordileone will be installed as the Roman Catholic Archbishop of San Francisco. The announcement of his appointment by Pope Benedict has come with mixed reactions and feelings from San Franciscans of all or no faith tradition. Bishop Cordileone was an active supporter of Proposition 8, which I and the other Episcopal bishops throughout California opposed.”
The letter also included the statement “Some Catholics may find themselves less at home with Salvatore Cordileone’s installation and they may come to The Episcopal Church.”
Some already have. Readers of CalCatholic may remember Father Cameron Ayers, SJ, former pastor of St. Agnes Church in San Francisco. Dressed in a Hawaiian shirt, Ayers had led his parish in San Francisco’s 2005 Gay Pride parade. In 2008, Ayers made news for donating to the No on Proposition 8 campaign– at a time when bishops in California were working hard to get the proposition passed. In 2009, Ayers took a leave of absence from the Jesuit order. Ayers was “received” as an Episcopal priest in 2011, and is now at Holy Innocents Episcopal Church in San Francisco.
Readers may also remember CalCatholic’s February 28, 2011 article revealing that Bishop Andrus allows pretend Masses to be play-acted by representatives of the Roman Catholic Womanpriests at one of his parishes, Trinity Episcopal, in San Francisco.
The Episcopal Church has a baptized membership of 1,951,012 persons in the United States—the nation’s 14th largest denomination. It is an Anglican church, which traces its roots to the break with the Catholic Church in the 1530s.
In 2010, the young Orthodox metropolitan Hilarion of Volokolamsk, chairman of the Moscow patriarchate’s department for external church relations, was invited by Rowan Williams, archbishop of Canterbury, to address members of the Anglican Communion at the Nicean Club in Lambeth. The Most Reverend Hilarion minced no words:
“Almost 1700 years have elapsed since the Council of Nicaea, but the criteria that were used by the Church to distinguish truth from heresy have not changed. And the notion of church truth remains as relevant today as it did seventeen centuries ago. Today the notion of heresy, while present in church vocabulary, is manifestly absent from the vocabulary of contemporary politically-correct theology – a theology that prefers to refer to ‘pluralism’ and to speak of admissible and legitimate differences.
“Indeed, St Paul himself wrote that ‘there have to be differences among you to show which of you have God’s approval’ (1 Cor. 11:19). But what kind of differences was he referring to? Certainly not those which concerned the essence of faith, church order or Christian morals. For, in these matters, there is only one truth and any deviation from it is none other than heresy….
“Some Protestant and Anglican churches have repudiated basic Christian moral values by giving a public blessing to same-sex unions and ordaining homosexuals as priests and bishops. Many Protestant and Anglican communities refuse to preach Christian moral values in secular society and prefer to adjust to worldly standards. Our Church must sever its relations with those churches and communities that trample on the principles of Christian ethics and traditional morals. Here we uphold a firm stand based on Holy Scripture.”
The Episcopal bishops are only “playing dress up” their orders are null and void. Just because they dress like bishops does not make it so.
Read about this snarky “welcome” and rejoice once again that you are a Catholic. As embarrassing as the behavior can be of a few outlying Catholic clerics and nuns, the overwhelming majority of our Catholic priests and religious have much more highly evolved spiritual grace and personal gentility than to subject other Christian groups to such back-stabbing “welcomes.” Most Protestants have quite a bit more awareness, style and discretion than this bumbler though, to be honest. He has to be a profound embarrassment even to those of his flock who happen to agree with his politics. We are blessed to have Archbishop Cordileone, and let’s face it, he will have a lot more challenging people to deal with than graceless guys on opposing teams with foot-in-mouth disease.
I like what Metropolitan Hillarion says. I also like the look on his face, which makes a whole lot more sense than the various happy face looks or that type of look that makes a great target in slapstick comedies that we find on so many American episcopal faces.
LOL, he reminds me of some of the Serbian clerics I met in my time over in the Balkans, not people to mess with…
Where’s your buddy max these days? I’d expect him to put in a word or two!
Dana I think he may have gone Anonymous.
ahhh. Tres bien, Abeca. Secrètement, naturellement! Shhhh. ;o)
Oui, but I don’t think it’s a secret anymore….Ce qui est bien étonnant, cependant. lol noi?
I would love to have been there to watch Rowland Williams squirm as the young Orthodox Partriarch explained the Truth. I look forward to a day when the Orthodox will completer the journey by coming HOME.
It probably was very similar to how Bill and Hilary squirmed when Mother Theresa publicly lectured them on Abortion.
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
I was really surprised to read that Williams even asked such a speaker, to be honest, Kenneth… Had to be the Holy Spirit working there! I wonder how thinks would shake down if he were Archbishop of NYC? Do you think he’d invite pro-abortion candidates? Neither do I! heh heh
The ‘he’ in this case, Orthodox metropolitan Hilarion! Sorry I didn’t make that clear. Sounded like I was still talking about Williams. Not!!
“For in these matters, there is only one truth and any deviation from it is none other than heresy.”
Same sex marriage can certainly qualify as one of the most deviant deviations from Holy Scripture.
This is perhaps the most unwelcoming “welcome” letter ever. If there is a purpose for his writing this letter, it´s perhaps to poach for new members from “discontented” Catholics. He can have those people, especially those who do nothing with their time but just complain about bishops and priests. Andrus can have that crowd too.
However, I find Metropolitan Hilarion´s words exceptional!
The Orthodox churches don’t change principles for anyone at any time. The Roman Catholic Church doesn’t do it either, officially. But the Catholic bishops seem addicted to “Political Correctness” and in too many cases put it before Truth and Tradition. Archbishop Cordileone won’t, if he remains the man he’s always been.
The Frisco city officials are also after His [incoming] Excellency:
Anti-gay record of incoming archbishop scrutinized by supervisors
Michael Short/Special to The Chronicle
San Francisco’s new Catholic archbishop, the Rev. Salvatore Cordileone, will officially take office Thursday at a Mass at St. Mary’s Cathedral and if he hadn’t already figured it out, Tuesday’s Board of Supervisors meeting made it clear that he’s likely in for a rough ride.
Cordileone, the current bishop of Oakland diocese, was one of the leading supporters of Prop. 8, 2008’s successful effort to ban same-sex marriage in the state. It was an out-front, outspoken role that didn’t endear him to San Francisco’s gay community.
“It’s disappointing that the church has assigned a person here who has shown a great deal of hostility to the (lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and questioning) community,” Supervisor Christina Olague, a bisexual who was raised as a Catholic, said at the board meeting.
Cordileone’s “unkind words are lacking in compassion and in many ways seem to defy the very basic principles of the New Testament values that include love, acceptance, understanding and tolerance,” Olague said, suggesting that the incoming archbishop owes an apology to the LGBT community.
Now given that the Catholic Church is very publicly opposed to all homosexual activity and views the idea of gay marriage as an affront to morality, there is never going to be an archbishop with a ‘Go, team” attitude toward the LGBT community. But local archbishops in the past have managed to reach accommodations with the city’s gays and lesbians on a number of issues, even if there was more than a little “don’t ask, don’t tell” to those agreements …
These people think they can teach a Roman Archbishop scripture? How arrogant?
Mbûkû Kanyau Mbithûka,
As a former politician, I can easily assure you that there is no lack of arrogance amongst politicians!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
talk about a bad way to “welcome” the new roman catholic archbishop of san francisco.
this loony guy from tenessee ( marc andrus) must use a completely different bible than the orthodox and catholics do.
he’s also a numbskull if he thinks his dying denomination will be saved by havving zillions of catholics signs up for episcopalian nonsense with labyrinths, female bfishops, gay marriage, transexual clergy, and the rest of the stuff they’ve recently invented.
Quit giving recognition to Mr. Andrus as anything other than a lay person. Episcopal “ordinations,” like their “mass” are not recognized by the Catholic Church. Please read, Apostolicae Curae (1897) by Leo XIII. (Yes, yes, it does raise a question about bringing all “ordained” and married Anglican clergy into the Catholic Church as priests, without much training at all; but at least they are “re-ordained” by a Catholic bishop.) What he, or other Anglicans, think about anything theological means nothing, other than as a layman’s point of view. Having said this, it is clear that Andrus is correct, all disaffected Catholics should leave the Church and go elsewhere. In fact, Benedict XVI himself has made similar suggestions. Going to the “Church of Dress-Up” is as good a venue for them as any other.
This e-piss-copalian really pisses me off!
The Catholic Church was gracious enough to invite him to the Mass of Installation today as a token of goodwill, and he then writes this nasty letter (“Dear Ones…”) as if Archbishop Cordileone has made up the Sacred Scriptures, Tradition, or long-held Judeo-Christian morality.
Andrus was arrested for flopping onto the ground in front of the Federal Building during a 2006 anti-war protest and dragged off to jail for a photo-op in his purple gown, and yet he attacks a faithful Roman Catholic Archbishop who speaks truthfully about marriage, abortion, and other basics that any Bible-believing Christian would agree on — unless he uses “Tales of the City” instead of the Sacred Scriptures for his daily meditations.
I also note in his letter that this Andrus person refuses to use the Archbishop’s title over and over again, instead referring to him as “Salvatore Cordileone,” which is probably meant to be insulting. This does not bode well for any cooperation between him (whose peculiar little denomination is dwindling and facing schism) and Archbishop Cordileone, who bases his teaching on true Catholic faith and the real Bible.
If Archbishop Cordileone is the man of God I believe him to be, the only cooperation he would want with Andrus is Andrus’s confession of Faith and then Sacramental Confession!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
Oh, yes, I almost forgot, SO MUCH FOR FALSE ECUMENISM!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
What matters most is what Jesus thinks! Jesus welcomes Archbishop Salvatore Cordileone! The rest are shook up because their souls are in danger should they continue on a path of destruction with their embrace to homosexual lifestyles!
SHAKE THE HOUSE and hopefully a soul will be saved! What is saving SF right from God’s wrath, are the few faithful there and with the New Archbishop there, it maybe that God is giving SF another chance to have a heart of conversion or maybe it is for the sake of the innocent there, the children, the children are the ones who are worst off, the homosexual agenda’s there have and continue to scandalize them.
Pray for Archbishop Salvatore Cordileone.
The Episcopalians are dying sect, let them fade away…The Orthodox know what the deal is as stated by the Metropolitan, it is my prayer that we will someday soon be reunited with them and end this 1000 schism
God Bless metropolitan Hilarion of Volokolamsk for his unwavering stand for the TRUTH! Let’s all pray that the efforts of Pope Benedict to bring unity with both the Western and Eastern Church will soon bring and end to our separation from each other.
Remember what our Holy Father Pope Benedict the XVI said, he would rather have a small amount of true believers in the Holy Roman Church than many who don’t believe!
Remember the Episcopal Church is a “man made” church, The Holy Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church was founded by Our Lord Jesus Christ, a big differance!!
How about we stop writing and saying “Roman Catholic”? We are Catholics. The moniker, “Roman Catholic”, is an English (as in U.K.) thing and meant to convey envidious meaning. The lovely white book on my coffee table is entitled “Catechism of the Catholic Church.” If you want, refer to the “Roman Rite.” But let’s stop with “Roman Catholic.”
It’s “Catholic” or “Holy Catholic Church.” I love Rome, but there’s no need to include the adjective “Roman” in the name of our Church.
“They will have eyes but will not see and ears but will not hear” Jesus Christ.
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
The Anglican heresy is no longer of any influence, they are now a real estate firm and nothing more.
The Anglican heresy in America is no longer of any influence; they are now a secular real estate firm with an acting arm of clergy (women now are also allow to play clergy FYI) devoid of holy orders and nothing more; coupled with a mere 1,400,00.00 theater attendees across the fruited plains.
There are going to be days like this when some prominent Protestant states the obvious: some Catholics in SF are just going to leave the Church in the months and years ahead because of the new Cardinal. The Vatican surely took that scenario into account when appointing the new Archbishop. This is another indicator that the Vatican would rather err on the side of much smaller Church comprised of laity without any conscience, questions, or dissent than to reach out pastorally to those who may disagree with it.
Those who leave the Church because of Church teaching must be called: ” CATHOLIC HERETICS ” and/or ” CATHOLIC SCHISMATICS “, not merely classifed as “Catholic”.
Catholic Heretics and Catholic Schismatics may decide to leave the Church.
CCC: ” 2089
INCREDULITY is the neglect of revealed truth or the willful refusal to assent to it.
HERESY is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same;
APOSTACY is the total repudiation of the Christian faith;
SCHISM is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him. “
What a small minded man this Andrus is! He’s invited to an event but takes time —publicly—to insult the host. Why in the world was such a malcontent invited in the first place? Andrus was once caught on camera giving a street side blessing to nearly naked, porno style men in the SF Gay Price parade
Who ever invited him, needs to re-think before they do invite him again…time for new friends in SF. I also heard that in SF it is legal to go naked in the streets.
You are right. It is ok to walk the streets naked. But, get this, you must have a towel or blanket upon which to sit in a restaurant in The City.
Wasn’t there a novel and/or movie entitled, “Naked City”?
Bob One that’s crazy. When one visits SF, how do we ignore a naked man on the streets and stop our kids from staring about of shock. Do we laugh or what? Since we can’t call the cops….I don’t know if I want to eat at any restaurants there, what if some break the rules and sit down without anything under there, gross all those germs!
After reading Metropolitan Hilarion’s forceful teaching at Lambeth Palace, I am more determined than ever to continue to include frequently the following petition in the Prayer of the Faithful at Mass: that the Holy Spirit enlighten the minds and inflame the hearts of the hierarchs of our Church and those of the Orthodox Church, so that we may soon re-unite and join each other in celebrating the Divine Mysteries at one and the same Table of the Lord.
I hope you will join in that prayer.
Count me in on that Father
Fr. Bob B, you can count me in!
Count me in too!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
I offered up my Mass today for Archbishop Salvatore Cordileone and asked for special graces to clean up the cesspool that his predecessors allowed to fester.
Metropolitan Hilarion is one of the most compelling ecclesial players on the world religious “stage” currently. As mentioned, his visage as shown reflects a soul convicted to the Truth revealed by our Savior. He has not only withstood slings and arrows from those outside of his tradition when speaking steadfastly to the gospel principles, but he has had the courage to literally physically persevere attacks upon his office, his person and his duty to celebrate the Divine Liturgy in HIS OWN CHURCH in Russia.
However, all that aside, he is also a man of great joy, an accomplished pianist, conductor and composer, musicologist who has been an evangelist for the recovery of truly sacred music in western liturgical rituals.
Would that he were Roman Catholic!
The venerable Andrus has been invited to Archbishop Cordileone’s installation at the Cathedral of St. Mary of the Assumption today, and, I understand, plans to attend. One of the difficulties with modern architecture is that, unfortunately, our Cathedral contains no pillars for him to sit behind.
Archbishop Cordileone, we welcome you and wish you well in serving Our Lord in your new position of leader of the flock in the Archdiocese of San Francisco. Your appointment is deserved, and your ministrations are much needed. God bless you always in your work. Know that all Catholics of good will wish you the best and Godspeed.
Bishop Marc Andrus can have all the CINOs he can handle and good riddance. It appears the Catholic Church in San Francisco can use a lot
of clearing out from our observations!
If metropolitan Hilarion doesn’t like homosexual priests and bishops then it would seem he doesn’t belong in the Catholic Church. Many of our most faithful and hard-working priests and bishops in the Catholic Church are homosexuals. If anyone thinks that the Catholic Church doesn’t have many homosexual priests and bishops then they really have their head in the sand. Lets be honest here. Many posters here have expressed support and admiration for homosexual Church leaders. (However, most homosexual priests and bishops are not open about this.)
Well PA perhaps that is why the Metropolitan is part of the Orthodox Church..Unfortunately you are correct we have too many homosexuals in the clergy and they must be purged from it. Only a fool would think that so many sodomites in the clergy would not be a cause for scandal..Only you PA thinks that having a clergy dominated by fey priest and false men is a good thing.. This is the main reason why straight men with normal sexual desire do not wish to enter the priesthood we don’t want to be surrounded by gay men everyday and have to put up with their immaturity and carrying on. I know PA, I know you will wag your finger at me and say “Canisius blah, blah, blah did you know” well I hereby verbally snap your waging finger, and point out to you that gay men have no business being in the Roman Catholic Priesthood let alone dominating its population..
Once this great purging start the Church will be a healthier and holier place. I have done my part by tearing rainbow flags and verbally confronting gay priests stating they need to leave the priesthood NOW
How did we go from St John Vianney to gay priests, please Lord please purge them out
So Canisius, you have verbally confronted priests and told them that they should leave the priesthood. How did that go? What did the priests have to say to you? The Orthodox Church does have a larger percentage of priests with normal sexual desire (towards women) because they allow married men to become priests. Men who are sexually active are dissuaded from becoming Catholic priests as Catholic priests are supposed to be chaste.
PA well since you asked..About 2 years while online for confession at a local monastery a priest not from there, was carrying on loudly. He was clearly homosexual with his mannerisms, voice and the rainbow pin on his lapel. I went up to him and said where is your respect for the Blessed Sacrament? Then I just went off and said gays like you need to be kicked out not just the priesthood but the Church as well. I remember him trying to form words for a comeback but he was trembling, you know why PA? No one ever confronted him before he acted like a teenage girl getting reprimanded by her father. He was so upset he just left without saying a word.
PA unlike you I will call out evil and filth when I see it, especially when I see it in the Church.. Why do you always state the obvious I am well aware that priests are supposed to be chaste, but you don’t accept the fact they are not supposed to be gay…
Canisius, you didn’t like the priest’s voice and mannerisms, but they don’t make him evil or filthy. The priest probably was gay but it wasn’t something that he chose. People speak with different accents but they should not be discriminated against for this. You might not like my voice or mannerisms either but because I sound different than you do, does that make me less of a person?
PA how you always miss the point, this so called priest, was acting with disrespect in front of Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament. Does that even matter to you, he may not have chosen to be gay, but he did choose how he was acting, and the fact he was advertising he was gay.. Like always with sodomites, they are gay first, before anything else, not even God comes first…You will not win this argument PA
You are correct PA I did not like his mannerism in front of the Blessed Sacrament. He was carrying on like a lot of gays do, with the attitude of “look at me I am gay’ even before Our Lord, there is this incredible arrogance and self importance. Gays a blight on the Church and need to be removed from it
Great call, Canisius!!!
MarkfromPA seems to be feeling quite confident about Obama winning the election again. He is feeling so happy about all of recent false victories, (which are only temporary because the gates of hell will not prevail) for the homosexual agenda and now he is finally exposing his true mission on CCD.
This poster has never been interested in upholding Catholic Church teaching. This individual is a member of the ape counter Church that Bishop Sheen warned the faithful about. They will talk about all of the exterior trappings of being Catholic but there is “no content”. This particular poster is letting others just like him who are out there know that “they” are finally coming out of the closet to openly encourage and promote homosexuals entering the priesthood. Don’t kid yourself. There is a lavender mafia that has worked very well for the ape counter church.
This poster is an enemy of the Catholic Church. He is a dedicated faithful member of the ape counter church that is serving the Ape of God. It is a compliment to CCD that he has attached to this website like a blood sucking leech. The devil never bothers with mediocrity. After all, the road to hell is often paved with good mediocre intentions. CCD has done much more than talk. They have walked the walk of exposing the heretics within the Church. This is why the intellectual leeches are monitoring for electioneering rules and the blood sucking homosexual agenda leeches are present. They do not like the truth being exposed.
The “ape counter church”???? Where do you get this stuff Catherine? I never heard such crazy stuff. The Ape of God? I remember hearing some people refer to Jewish people as blood suckers but I never heard of Catholics referring to other Catholics as blood suckers. What ever happened to the 2 Great Commandments?
Canisius, when I was a child I had a very high voice. Even as a teenager, sometimes people that I didn’t know would make fun of me for this. I have to say that it was confusing to me. I didn’t understand why someone would be so rude and judgmental to someone they didn’t even know. Do you have any sons? What would you do if you had a son who had a high voice? Would you love him any less? Would you accept your child as he was or would it anger you if he had what you considered to be imperfections?
Societies learned long ago that imitating animals would also manipulate the human gene pool favoring those who resembled and behaved similar to beasts. Idolatry runs deep in the human condition.
Yes Catherine you are right. I wish more people had your backbone! I miss being surrounded with good folks who defend the faith, who are like minded. Right now there is division and it is felt very strongly. Sometimes we need to be close to those faithful of like mind. We just need that to keep our sanity and continue on with fortitude. We must encourage one another in the ways of the Lord always!
Are you a paid contributor here? Do you represent the feelings of the owner of this website? Or are you the owner of the website?
PA you are simply infuriating…you don’t get it. I took the gay priest to task for his effeminate mannerisms, acting like a little teenage while he was in the same room as the Blessed Sacrament. Its amazing how you can twist everything around to create certain perspective, and that it in this case I went after someone strictly because of his high pitched voice. Like this gay priest you must always be perceived as the victim. In PA’s world gays=victim=good, straight white man=aggressor=evil. You just echo the thoughts of a corrupt culture that is headed toward destruction, I say the sooner the better
Editors, please note that prior to this I was discussing priests. I didn’t mention President Obama as I am aware that many posters here despise the man. I was confused at what Catherine said but after thinking about it I realize that the Ape of God that she refers to is President Obama. (As opposed to Christ who is the Lamb of God.) In my opinion this is racist and insulting to black people and others. I don’t quite understand the comment about monitoring for electioneering rules. However, I feel that calling someone the Ape of God is offensive and inappropriate.
From your actions PA…that’s where you’ll be judged. PA go back and read the comments made against the faithful by the drag show in SD…..they were pretty nasty but I never heard you tell them how offensive and inappropriate they were to the people of faith who opposed that immodesty in the drag show. NOW tell me PA are you double standard?
You are right PA I do despise the man he taking my country apart by the joints and hates the Catholic Church. Tell me Mr. Pro Life how will justify voting for him this time, with his HHS mandate now enforced. Will you follow the bogus “faithful citizenship” issued by the USCCB which made up nothing but democrat party hacks…BTW the Ape in this context to mock how do you interpret that to be racist???…
“But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of stress. For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, inhuman, implacable, slanderers, profligates, fierce, haters of good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, holding the form of religion but denying the power of it. Avoid such people. For among them are those who make their way into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and swayed by various impulses, who will listen to anybody and can never arrive at a knowledge of the truth. As Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men of corrupt mind and counterfeit faith, but they will not get very far, for their folly will be plain to all, as was that of those two men. Now you have obseved my teaching, my conduct, my aim in life, my faith, my patience, my love, my steadfastness, my persecutions, my sufferings, what befell me at Antioch, at Ico’nium, and at Lystra, what persecutions I endured, yet from them all the Lord rescued me. Indeed all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted while evil men and impostors will go on from bad to worse, deceivers and deceived. But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings which are able to instruct you for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for ever good work.” 2Tm 3 Year of Faith begins Oct. 11. Read Porta Fidei for instructions.
Mark, you seem to have made a slip-of-the-keys when you wrote that “normal sexual desire” is heterosexuality. It is, indeed–but that is only one more way of saying, as the Church does, that the homosexual inclination is objectively disordered. And yet when this latter fact is pointed out to you, your response is to go on another crying jag and accuse the writer of insulting you. Every once in a while, even the most dedicated and tendentious propagandist suffers a momentary lapse into honesty. Such moments are always to be treasured because of how deeply revelatory they are. Oh, by the way–the Orthodox Church, which you laud for ordaining sexually “normal” men (using your word) does indeed allow married men to become priests–but not priests to marry who haven’t already. Nobody but the Anglican Church allows that. Orthodox bishops are celibate.
Larry writes, “Every once in a while, even the most dedicated and tendentious propagandist suffers a momentary lapse into honesty.” Those words are brilliant and treasured!
Yes Larry, I too truly treasure those moments when Christ’s Kingship and Mighty Ownership shows forth. No matter how steeped a soul becomes in serving sin, that soul was created by God to only serve God. Without intending to, Mark innately served God’s Natural Law.
No matter how rebellious a sinner, God’s Dominion reigns Supreme!
Gosh, Larry, for a man to have sexual desire for a woman is the norm. 90% of men are heterosexual so this is not news to me. But 5% of men are homosexual and maybe 5% are bisexual. These men are part of the natural order of things too. I am left-handed, this isn’t the norm, as most people are right-handed but neither is it unnatural. It is just part of the diversity of nature.
Larry I applaud your comments, they were expressed so beautifully, I really appreciate them and they express my sentiments but can’t express them as eloquently as you just did! God bless you for using your gift of conveying well in ways that honor God Almighty!
PA being left handed is not an immoral sin! So your comparison is irreverent and misses a huge point, better get the message well before it’s too late and one sends their soul into damnation!!
You are seriously overestimating the number of gays. I believe the most credible surveys have indicated 1% of the population is homosexual–NOT 5%. I might also bet that a good chunk of whom you call bisexual are part of that 1%. So I think the number of sexually “normal” men–again to use your word–is pretty close to 99%. I’m not going to let you get away with the deceitful tactic of the militant gay rights movement–that being the inflating of the number and percentage of homosexuals in order to give the lifestyle a false respectability. I must say that in all honesty I agree with Catherine–you are very far from the faithful Catholic you claim to be. I’d frankly call you a wolf in sheep’s clothing. You claim to support Church teaching, but it’s obvious you do not. And I also find it VERY hard to believe your claim that you lead and have always led a chaste Christian life. That just doesn’t jibe with your constantly glorifying homosexuality as a high and holy calling. And I’m offended by your silly and calumnious use of the race card against Catherine. If I was ever inclined to give you the benefit of the doubt as a sincere but misled person, Mark–I no longer am so inclined. I don’t think you’re so much troubled and misled as dishonest and malevolent.
PA there is nothing natural about men being attracted to men, despite how much the corrupt culture has lead you to convince yourself of that….that is real order of things…smash diversity
PA in accordance with the homosexual power movement uses false statistics to warm up the public to believe that one out of ten men is homosexual. It is nothing but the old con game of “hey, everyone is doing it, so let’s also do it”. If that were the case that so many among us were sodomites, then why are they so desparate to seduce others? Makes no sense. With such a huge pool of sodomy practicioners as PA claims, then no one would ever really pay attention to it. PA is trying to make it sound normal, like everybody is involved somehow. In the region I reside and work in, and I interact with countless others daily, I simply do not see it. Rather what I see is the opposite … it is rare in mainstream society. I suspect PA gathers his statistics in bathhouses.
Larry again I have to say that you have conveyed so well what I always wanted too but never could in the most polite and most charitable ways as you have to PA. God bless you. When I was reading your post, I kept applauding, and cheering, yup that is how I feel, yes he said it right on!
JLS oh yes those famous bath houses, gross that is for sure. JLS you are correct about the false statistics. I also can bet that more and more people are experimenting with sodomy more because of the gay movement’s ability to spread their filth!
Andrus’ honesty was obviously the reason for his shameful treatment yesterday. After receiving an invitation to attend the elevation of Cordileone to Grand Poobah status, Andrus showed up but was left standing in the basement. Way to go, Catholic Church in San Francisco! https://bishopmarc.typepad.com/blog/2012/10/a-post-to-clarify-my-experience-at-the-installation-of-archbishop-cordileone-at-st-marys-cathedral-san-francisco-i-was-dr.html
Well, poor him! he was instrumental in his own not being seated. Anon Catholic Cannot process with Clergy during Mass.
Jim, did you ever hear of the “ape counter church”? What are your thoughts on this?
PA, you never heard of the Apepiscopal church?!
Mark from PA, Catherine is taking a quote from a 1950’s book by Bishop Fulton J. Sheen out of context. He was talking about Communism and the book that it is from is titled “Communism and the Conscience of the West.” In her post she was just baiting you, me and Mr. Maguire. Obviously, to believe that there are 2 Catholic Churches, one of Christ and one of the Anti-Christ would be heresy and we alltknow that Archbishop Sheen was no heretic. He was a staunch defender of the faith. It is too bad to see someone twist his words to defame the Church but these are the times we live in.
Thanks for the update, K. I don’t think calling a fellow Catholic an enemy of the Catholic Church is part of a civil discussion. I actually read part of Catherine’s post to a priest that I know well. He told me what I should say to her but it isn’t my style to respond with his reply and I don’t think it would be appropriate for this forum.
Just pray for her.
Mark from PA, I saw your post about the Ape of God being Obama-I don’t think so. I think Bishop Sheen meant the Ape to be the anti-Christ, and he was referring to Communist USSR. The quote is used out of context by sedevacantist and traditionalist Catholics to indicate that Bishop Sheen made a prediction of the “novus ordo” church, which they believe is a false church. I don’t know what Catherine thinks but what she writes is heretical. If it is another great insult that she can use to sock it to the people who tick her off, she crossed a line and now has lied about the Mystical Body of Christ. She needs prayer to save her soul.
MarkfromPA, Thank you Mark for finally reinforcing another one of the very important aspects of Sacred Scripture. That is two in a week. Very good. You recently used the correct word “normal” when discussing sexual relations or attractions between heterosexuals. That is God’s Natural Law. You usually ignore or distort the meaning of Sacred Scripture but now you have become a good example of showing how the irritating salt of truth is meant to work on stubborn and rebellious sinners who are locked into blindness due to unnatural acts.
The salt got under your skin and agitated your conscience enough to immediately run and seek counsel with a priest who has also lost his flavor and who could potentially be thrown out and trampled underfoot. Can you imagine our world if consciences were agitated enough by holy priests who charitably taught us to reflect on how sin offends God?
Mark It actually sounds like you are seeking out counsel from someone who is enabling you to offend God. Mark that is never going to help you but it is sure a good sign to learn that consciences can always be reached when people speak out and do not let political correctness trump God’s Laws.
Is this the same priest that you receive spiritual direction from? Is this the same priest who has encouraged you to promote the homosexual agenda on CCD?
You see Mark if this is a faithful priest and he is truthfully told what you have been doing, he WOULD be the salt to counsel you like the faithful priests on CCD who have previously counseled you to stop misrepresenting Church teaching..
Mark it could be a case where you have you also lied to this particular priest like you have lied to readers of CCD about church teaching? Does this particular priest know that you consistently distort the teachings of the Catholic Church on a Catholic website?
Does this priest know that other priests who post on CCD have warned you that your soul is in serious jeopardy? Mark, If this is the same priest who is aware of you promoting the homosexual agenda for a few years on CCD, then his reaction to my post is no different than the very lost and disobedient priests who posted their VILE inappropriate responses on Sebastian’s Angels website.
It is a supreme compliment to God and testimony to Holy Scripture to learn from you that salt can still irritate you or a wolf in sheep’s clothing. If this is a priest who also supports the homosexual agenda hopefully it will agitate the two of you into listening to Christ by obeying Church teaching.
Please also read this post to him too and get back to us with his latest response. Let us hope that it is not as inappropriately VILE as you made his last response sound. That is never the good sign of a faithful priest. It is the betraying sign of a homosexual agenda sympathizer.
Mark from PA, nobody is this stupid. It’s a put-on.
PA why is stating the truth no part of a civil discussion why do fear to face the Truth…go back to church of nice, but it wont save your soul
Canisius, I don’t consider name calling to be Truth. You may criticize what you feel is the “church of nice” but the Church needs to be welcoming and forgiving. It is interesting conversing with you but we were raised in very different environments and have very different outlooks. When my mom passed away I was very touched by all of the people that said how nice she was. The women in her family were pretty much like that. So I was raised in a gentle faith. The faith that you and Catherine seem to have is somewhat foreign to me. I have known many very good priests who I have learned from, and I have known a couple who weren’t so good but I learned from them also.
PA yes, I am not surprised you say the Church I was raised in is foreign to you. First off I was not raised in it I reverted to it. You were raised in a completely effeminized Church, where all that matter is love and tolerance, what I call the church of nice. Where there no such thing as sin, and all are welcoming even unrepentant sinners, since there is no such thing as sin there is no need to repent. All that matters is that we are nice to each other. Its an utter joke and insult to Our Lord and to blood of the countless martyrs who died for something a lot more than being nice they died for the Truth. You have complete lack knowledge of the Truth is PA, do you think that defenders of the faith at Tours and Lepanto thought they were fighting for a “gentle and forgiving” church?? Do you really believe that, you PA are a prime example of what has gone wrong in the Church in the past 50 years…
The church of nice turn to dust as time passes its parishes will empty, its already happening throughout the world. The gay priests and clipped hair nuns who responsible for this disaster will be held account by Christ at His Judgement seat. Thankfully the real Church a strong one will replace it, its Parishes are filled Sunday morning where the Truth of the Faith is preached without regard to hurting peoples feelings, something you PA cannot accept, for you PA the only thing that matters is if someone somewhere feelings are upset… I expect in the next 25 years a schism in the Church between the church of nice and the Church of Christ, the sooner it happens the better.
PA your sentimentality is so tiresome….no one cares about who taught you what in catholic school or what priest said this or that, it is completely irrelevant to the fact that you constantly try and promote an agenda opposite to the moral teachings of the Church…
This is my second reply, as the first one disappeared even though my moniker was entered. k, you are wrong about Catherine quoting out of context. You fail to know what communism consists of, or modernism, or much of any other non-superficial topic or idea.
Catherine, you speak of a priest who has lost his flavor and who could potentially be thrown out and trampled underfoot. My, how you are so quick to judge. Just to let you know, I have known this man since I was 16 years old. He taught me in school before he became a priest. Before he entered the seminary he had a Masters in Education and a Masters of Social Work. He is now a well respected pastor and I consider him a good friend and older brother of sorts. I consider him to be a good and faithful priest but you would surely find fault with him as he doesn’t share your dark view of life. This priest has also traveled the world and seen many places and many people. I know and have known other good priests too who have been positive influences in my life. As I have probably told you before, the priest that taught me Religion for 3 years in high school was not a good priest. Because I was chaste and didn’t drink or smoke pot this priest put me down and was sarcastic to me because I was a “goody two shoes.” Another priest, who was very conservative, I have a negative view of. When I found out that the priest who taught me Religion took a student from our high school on a vacation to Florida and forced him to give into his advances, I was upset and told this priest. His comment to me was, “Well the kid was committing mortal sins too.” This upset me and I told him the priest was the one committing the mortal sins and I was critical of this priest; he told me never to speak to him again. I found out these thing about the same time I started posting on this site. So in a way looking back I feel lucky that the priest didn’t like. But one learns from both the good and bad in life.
JLS, in kindness and love, we being the Year of Faith tomorrow so maybe in a year I won’t be so superficial. We’ve been given a lot of homework. I hope you have your books.
Canisius, what about the good things that happened in the last 50 years? Think of Blessed John XXIII and his love for everyone. I remember how much I respected Pope Paul VI, who was Pope for most of my school years. I remember gentle Pope John Paul I, who sadly was only Pope for little more than a month. I remember how heartbroken I was when he died. Pope John Paul II was always a personal hero to me. I followed with great interest his many trips across the globe. I was so proud that we had a Polish Pope. I read many books about him and even was privileged to hear him say Mass when he came to Philadelphia in 1979. I was inspired by how he seemed to love young people and met with so many of them. When I received First Holy Communion, I received a missal which I used to read when the priest was saying Mass. Some here prefer the Mass in Latin but when they changed the Mass to English it was beneficial to me. I learned the prayers and the songs. I was glad to be able to participate in the Mass and raise my voice in prayer and song to worship God. I remember in high school when we had weekly folk Masses and how much I loved them. I was lucky because in college I was able to attend daily Mass often and learned much from the wonderful priest at our Newman Center. So I have followed many of the changes in the last 50 years and many have been for the better. You criticize what you feel is “the Church of nice” but we need to be a welcoming Church. I was taught that God is love and that we were brothers and sisters in Christ. We need to nurture the goodness in one another.
PA you have child like naivete that is beyond belief for a grown man…and sentimentality is near sickening. Tell why do we “need” a welcoming Church to people who are hell bent on destroying it. PA here are some of the “great results of Vatican”
Mass attendance under 20%
Vocations down overall (except for traditional orders)
Lack of belief of the Real Presence
Sexual scandals beyond belief
The destruction of the liturgy
Catholics Voting for pro-abortion politicians
The infestation of gays in the priesthood
I could go on but I would run out of space.
You actually exposed yourself and reflect the generational attitude towards just about everything. Here it is:” Some here prefer the Mass in Latin but when they changed the Mass to English it was beneficial to me.” The word ME: You and most of your generation seem to forget that the Mass is not about you or the “community” but its about Christ and His Sacrifice. The Latin Mass was robbed from the Faithful by modernist thugs bent on remaking the Church in their own image. To quote Martin Luther destroy the Mass and you will destroy the Church… Lucifer himself could not have gotten better results than what the modernist have achieved in less than 50 years. You refuse to see the destruction PA because the church of nice does not deal with reality or care for the salvation of souls. To you the Church is one giant social welfare agency where all problems are solved with hugs and tolerance..the church of nice supports Obama no doubt I really want to know how you can defend voting for him this time… I am sure you will twist the reasoning of the USCCB to get answer… I will take on any priest that you know to try and prove me wrong…
Canisius, you probably would not like any of the priests that I know because they have a different view of the faith than you do. The church that I attend would probably be too modern for you and not ornate enough. Our pastor is very active in our local council of churches but he does not care for the Latin Mass so you might have issues with him. The church in the town next door is older and more traditional so you would probably like that church better. The pastor there is a very nice man but he might be too refined for your tastes. But these are good parishes. I don’t really know any priests that think as you do.
PA I would like to know the reasons why your pastor does not like the Latin Mass..I bet its the same reason I hear, about the language, back to the people (but actually facing Christ in the Blessed Sacrament)… I would just say this to him and every other opponent to the Latin Mass how could the Mass that fed the souls of the Saints for nearly 1900 years possibly be a “problem”… We now have the Mass of the people who think the Mass is about them and the “community”….Its really pathetic… Because you don’t know any priests who think as I do, does not make me wrong… I know plenty of priest who think as I do…
Thankfully PA your pastor will be replaced in the years to come with a new crop of traditional/orthodox priests who respect and love the old mass.
I just read that the Episcopal Bishop of California was effectively barred from the installation, so it turns out that he was the unwelcome one. https://sfist.com/2012/10/05/anti-prop_8_bishop_barred_from_arch.php
Catholics are we still favorable toward Ecumenism? Let’s hope and pray that ABp Cordileone stands his ground and holds firmly to Roman Catholic teaching, at least what still remains of it. The error of ecumenism causes me to ponder what our Lord said in St. Luke’s Gospel Chapter 12:51-52: “Think ye, that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, no; but separation.  For there shall be from henceforth five in one house divided: three against two, and two against three.  The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against his father, the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother, the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law”. Remember also what our Lord said in St. Luke’s Gospel Chapter 12: 16-17: “And you shall be betrayed by your parents and brethren, and kinsmen and friends; and some of you they will put to death.  And you shall be hated by all men for my name’s sake”. Our Lord’s words to me speak out against ecumenism as it compromises the Roman Catholic faith of which He taught us. We need to appease God at the expense of making man happy instead of the other way around. Pray the rosary that people will be filled with the graces to see God’s Holy Way, Truth, and Life with the courage and strength to follow Him!
“Ecumenism” is a vague term. I’ve always taken it to mean evangelization. However, it seems to betray this Gospel effort.
Doug I’m not favorable with the Ecumenism that was i raised with in the NO parishes that I grew up in, but I am favorable to evangelize, in apologetics.
I, too, admire the backbone of the Orthodox patriarchy in most cases. The late Archbishop Iakovos, may he rest in peace, had no problem clearly stating that the one Greek Orthodox man who ran for the presidency of the United States was not in good standing in his church because of his approval of abortions. He then attended the convention of the opposing candidate because I saw him there on television.
What does the Catholic Church teach that is “false Ecumenism” per a few posters ?
The “CATECHISM of the CATHOLIC CHURCH, Second Edition” clearly states: “…one true religion which subsists in the Catholic and apostolic Church”. (CCC pg 511)
QUOTE – – – – CCC: ” 2105 The duty of offering God genuine worship concerns man both individually and socially.
This is “the traditional Catholic teaching on the moral duty of individuals and societies toward the true religion and the one Church of Christ.”
By constantly evangelizing men, the Church works toward enabling them “to infuse the Christian spirit into the mentality and mores, laws and structures of the communities in which [they] live.”
The social duty of Christians is to respect and awaken in each man the love of the true and the good.
It requires them to make known the worship of the one true religion which subsists in the Catholic and apostolic Church.
Christians are called to be the light of the world. Thus, the Church shows forth the kingship of Christ over all creation and in particular over human societies. ” – – – – UNQUOTE
If you need info on the CCC on internet go to: ” What Catholics REALLY Believe Source “.
Well, There is a lot of people that think they are Bishops with teaching authority on this site.
I don’t get why you both felt the need to post what you posted? I’m lost!
Well, after all, MKM, somebody’s gotta make the effort since the bishops don’t : )
The “Welcome” letter was puzzling. It marks a strong departure from the long history of friendship and collaboration between the Diocese of California and the Archdiocese of San Francisco. It departs from civility and the cordial relationship established by Marc Andrus’ predecessors, Swing, Meyer, Pike, etc. The letter was outrageous and immature, and I’m sure many long-time SF Episcopalians are as offended by its tenor as long-time SF Catholics. On a personal note, I found the letter embarrassing and unworthy of anybody calling himself The Bishop of California.
Paul Martin – Moraga
The Anglican Heresy has always been opposed to the Church that Christ founded. Andrus was simply going back to his tradition.
Meanwhile, he may have an illusion that he is a Bishop, but in reality he is just a confused heretic.
Bishop Andrus was not seated in time and left Cordileone’s installation mass in a huff. Bye-bye.
Archbishop Cordileone we love you and pray for you!
The greatest enemy in our church is the indifference we see amongst it’s members. Especially the ones who put up a front but yet help others fall deeper in sin. Being friends with the enemy and it’s followers does not have good results. You have the victim who is deep in sin, a lost soul but the worst enemy is the one who pats the back of the victim lost in sin, a true friend would never enable another soul from seeking the truth, this false compassion is now a more acceptable form to getting along with those living very dangerous and sinful lifestyles. I hate people who say they love their friend with homosexual tendencies yet they do nothing to help them get close to Jesus. Their love is dangerous because they act out on that love as if they really cared and their caring means to help gays get their rights to sin more. This is truly evil and it is better to be without friends than have those kind of lukewarm folks in ones life!
k, you’re the most duplistic person I’ve ever encountered on this website. Mark is always honest in what he believes and never wavers, but you seem to express a dualistic understanding that is most disconcerting. I hope he doesn’t depend too much on your support. I have no doubt that someday Mark will eventually see that though living a chaste life himself, he is also called to be a beacon of hope to his fallen friends and that he is only enabling them by supporting them in what he believes is kindness. You, however, support no one. And for you to use that holier-than-thou attitude in that condescending manner and say you’ll pray for Catherine is preposterous! Catherine defends Church teaching with authority and verve. There shouldn’t always be this rancor between two fellow Catholics. It isn’t right and only causes disruption and confusion. I don’t want to stick in my oar where it isn’t wanted, but I can’t help but reflect k, that sometimes you’re like one of those puzzle pictures where there are missing or odd items and we can’t help but spot them. Sorry, for I know you just as easily fault me and my over-the-top spiels. haha. Go ahead…I will readily agree with you!
Thank you Dana…I appreciate your comments especially when my own comments did not make it through, I wanted to also tell k what I thought about her awfulness towards Catherine but the editor protected k and didn’t allow my comment to go through, so I thank you for coming to Catherine’s defense!
Thank you Abeca, Larry, JLS, and Dana,
The following quotes are taken from Father John Hardon’s Archives on Bishop Fulton Sheen
“During the Tre Ore sermon which he preached on Good Friday some years ago, Fulton J. Sheen asked his audience: “If Jesus Christ thirsted for souls, must not a Christian also thirst? If He came to cast fire on the earth, must not a Christian be enkindled? Has he not called us to be His apostles and His ambassadors, in order that His Incarnation might be prolonged through the continued dispensation of the divine through the human?” He answered his own question by declaring that, “A Catholic who does not strive to spread his Faith is a parasite on the life of the Church.”
“Fulton Sheen realized from the outset that the apostolate in our times, before everything else, means to expose the errors and tactics of the enemies of Christ. Unless the evils which surround them are understood, he argued, how can faithful Christians protect themselves from contagion; and unless their disease is made known to them, how can those who now hate and revile Christ be finally converted to love Him?”
“Finally in 1948 he published Communism and the Conscience of the West, which competent critics have justly described as “a prerequisite for an intelligent understanding of communist thought and development.”
“Regarding the origin of Communism, Sheen is convinced that this “apocalypse of violence” is the price of our sins”.
“Communism is both an effect and a judgment on our Western world; an effect because it was born of our unfulfilled Christian duties, our abandonment of the Father’s House in favor of materialism; a judgment because it reveals how wrong has been our thinking, how evil have been our deeds.”
“Since our generation is responsible, we must humbly acknowledge our guilt before God, sincerely repent, and do penance for the errors of the past. But even this is not enough. For “unless there is a moral revival in our Western world (especially) a rebirth of family life, Communism may be the instrument for the liquidation of a bourgeois civilization that has forgotten God.” We are afraid of Communism, and with justice; but our fears should be rational. “Communism,” he says, “is not to be feared just because it is anti-God, but because we are Godless; not because it is strong but because we are weak, for if we are under God then who can conquer us.”
Catherine beautiful information you just posted about Fulton Sheen, I value them and will not take them for granted…thank you my good sister in Christ! Continue with your faithfulness and defense for the faith and the truth! God be with you always!
This pretty much sums up what I have been warning all of you about for almost 2 years. Take this seriously. Why did certain posters lie about the ones that warned you and try to make it look like they were the evil ones? Every thing comes full circle.
Dana, the Year of Faith begins tomorrow. If we follow the Pope’s wishes we will be much more faithful and knowledgable very soon. Of course, I pray for Catherine. I pray for everyone who posts here. And their families.
k, what is your real name, if I may ask? Also, I’m always grateful for prayers, as long as they’re not asking the Lord for my exit from this earth for my ‘reward’. heh heh I hope everyone really gets involved in this year of faith, for if anything will strengthen and help the Church to spread the good news it is faith. Speaking of praying for one another, I’m reminded of an old cartoon where a man sees another man coming up the street and thinks to himself ‘Oh, no, here comes Joe and I said I’d pray for him…Lord, bless Joe and help him find a job’ Amen” As they meet, the man says “Hello Joe, I hope you found a job, I”ve been prayin’ for ya!”
I’m sorry, Dana. I can’t give you my full name. This is the internet and it is not wise to do that. People like Mr. Fisher are brave to do that. I know someone who had to contact the police because they got death threats and really disgusting porn sent to them because they were Catholic. It is easy to forget to pray for the many that recommend themselves to our prayers. I used to keep a notebook with prayer intentions and have started doing that again. It fills up quickly. God bless you in this Year of Faith.
K, I looked up ape Catholic Church and I found an interesting site, “Novus Ordo Watch.” This explained it to me. I read quite a bit of it an now I understand why some here do not consider me to be a “real” Catholic. According to what I read I belong to the “Novus Ordo Church.” It seems that this is what Catherine referred to. The writers of this site feel that Pope John XXIII brought many errors into the Church and that Pius XII was the last true Pope. Also according to them, Pope Paul VI was of Jewish ancestry. So it would seem some see me as belonging to a different Catholic Church not the Catholic Church as it existed under Pope Pius XII. I am really out of my league with some of the posters here.
Yes, but if you hunt around a little more you can find more of the quote. Google and amazon only have parts of it as well. Often, when certain posters use these kinds of “soundbites” i find them quoted (taken out of context) on sites like you mentioned. It is important to go to the primary source, like the book itself to really understand what Bishop Sheen was saying. This is not a criticism of those posters. There are a lot of people on the internet who, while sincere, are also misleading traditional minded Catholics.
k is wise in this regard. You can google someone’s name and find out where they live, who has lived there before, now and a lot of other personal data, including the names of present and past neighbors. One of my brothers, a programmer, laughs at people trying to keep their social security numbers private: I searched and found a site listing zillions of social security numbers of deceased persons … from which of course lots more information can be obtained.
Mark, from PA,
you are totally making stuff up. You defend sins that cry out to God, no one would do that and call themselves Catholic, let alone Christian.
k’s pattern of rhetoric … rather “patterns” plural, indicates that she sort of imitates the style of whatever writer she most recently glombed onto. I used to do this while in college and eventually developed my own style. Maybe k will arrive there someday. k also seems never to be able to integrate much with the latest pronouncements, and kind of pushes some sort of superficiality she sees in them. She is trying though; my early university days introduced me to the Catholic mind sets: A. those who had been taught and had learned to think for themselves using all the information available and even discovering more information, and then B. those who could only repeat what they were told whether it made much sense or not. One university professor even pleaded with this second group to try to look at reality themselves instead of simply taking what some book said.
Still waiting for the bishops to start becoming holy, k. What about you? Have you noticed if any of them have taken up this papal request?
JLS, quite honestly, the only person’s holiness I pay any attention to is my own. I could use your prayers in that regard.
JLS, On relfection that is not true, because I do offer prayers and morning offering of the day for the conversion of sinners and sanctification of the just. But I leave it to God. We also offer it for the intentions of the bishops and the Pope. Do you know about the Apostolate of Prayer?
JLS, sorry, I meant the Apostleship of Prayer.
Ecumenism in practice as demonstrated by the Vatican 2 hierarchy is tolerance for other religions whether they are heretical christians (protestants) or pagans (like muslims, hindus, and etc). Remember Assisi in the mid 1980s?? Religious tolerance is compromising with other religions, not converting their lossed souls. One of the most popular bumper stickers I see these days besides all the wacky political stuff is COEXIST based on letters with various religions symbols. We can’t follow ecumenism as I mentioned in my earlier comment, for we are either with Christ or we are against Him. Our Roman Catholic belief by some and non-belief by most others will divide us not only between our nations, states, and cities, but also within our very own families as Christ said! I for one want to be saved, and desire all to be saved, so I will stick with our Lord and Savior in all that He teaches so as not to offend Him and in-turn not lose my soul. And I will do my best with the graces from the Holy Ghost to defend my Roman Catholic faith and to save souls, especially by praying for their conversions as their conversions can only happen by the grace of the Holy Ghost, St Paul said that. We are but dust, just God’s representatives to help the unbelievers know, love, follow, and serve the Blessed Trinity in the Way, the Truth, and the Life.
Doug, I was raised in a community where Catholics used to be a small minority. Before World War II, Catholics in our community faced discrimination. When I was a child most of the Catholic kids went to Catholic grade school. Ecumenism was good and healthy for our community as it helped the non-Catholic people to be more accepting of the Catholic minority. As a young person I was raised in an atmosphere of ecumenism so this has influenced my views.
Well PA your views deny the True Faith and accept heretical views, but then again coming from you it does not surprise me
Canisius, the Year of Faith begins tomorrow. It is an intense year of prayer and study of Catholic faith and history. Even if you do not like the last 40 years of Church history, it is important. The True Faith, the Catholic Faith, is found in the Credo of the People of God. I hope you have a fruitful year. God bless you.
K, the 40 year of the Church have been nothing short of a complete disaster at least for the Church in the US and Europe. It is my hope that a the new crop of orthodox/traditional clerics making their way up the ranks will start the great task of cleaning up the mess. I think the mass apostasy so evident in the Church will lead to a schism (perhaps a necessary one) so we can get back to salvation of souls.. They are about to celebrate the anniversary of Vatican 2 as if it was a good thing, the end results have been a death knell for the Church…
Canisius, the Year of Faith is an important time of grace-one of it’s purposes is to continue cleaning up the mess. If those who do not like it choose schism, then all we can do is pray for them. The smoke of Satan that entered the Church after Vatican II was a veil and an effort of the evil one to inhibit the fruit of the council. I implore you to do as the Pope asks this year. As a new Catholic, you will learn much and be strengthened in the Faith. Do not be deceived by the evil one who will try to prevent the fruits of this Year of Faith. Porta Fidei is on the Vatican website. Also, there is a note from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith that the Pope requested be prepared to issue concrete suggestion for this Year. Do not deprive yourself of these graces because of your impression of Vatican II.
K to be honest until the Vatican bulldozes the filth out of the Church and I mean bulldoze, I have very faith in their initiatives. I am tired of their ignoring the problems or taking light years to deal with them.. My own solution is to wall myself away from what I can the “church of nice” and the rot they helped create. Until Vatican2 is acknowledge for the failure that it is and it is admitted that a rupture from the past has without a doubt been created. I have decided to attend only TLM parishes or SSPX chapels, I will not have my faith under minded by bad liturgy and lousy cowardly preaching. K there has been a mass apostasy going on for nearly 50 years, and I believe only a schism can solve this problem, let the church of nice go its gay little way while the Church of Christ can recover from the near collapse
Canisius, the idea of Vatican II being a rupture with the Church of the past is what caused the innovations that should not have occured. One of the express purposes of this year is to promote an understanding that no rupture occured-that it is the same Church and always will be. You are coming at it from a different angle than the Pope is. He is trying to bring the members of the Church back in line with Tradition and the working of the Holy Spirit. There are things from the path the Pope has put us on that you could do without fear of having your faith undermined. During this year, every parish is supposed to make a public profession of the Credo of the People of God. You could study that. You could do the study of Church History. Pray an Act of Faith daily and the Rosary. The Pope asks that we keep our gaze fixed on Christ so Eucharistic Adoration, reading the Gospels and mental prayer would be very appropriate. He has asked for the bishops to disseminate knowledge of local saints but you could find North American saints to study on your own. Kateri Tekakwitha is going to be canonized this month. I feel that you could read the documents from Vatican II and the CCC which are the main things we will be studying this year, but you may be more comfortable with the older catechism. He also asks for an intensifying of the witness of charity, which would not be risky at all for you. God bless you and pour his grace upon you and your family.
Canisius, the USCCB (don’t choke) year of faith page has a link to North American Saints-one for each month. October is St. Isaac Jogues, SJ. They have a prayer to the North American Martyrs.
Mark from PA, there is so much to do this next year. I hope you have read Porta Fidei and are ready to begin. It should be a year to enrich the Church. I hope all Catholics obey the Pope on this.
I also hope that everyone is keeping up with the news from the Vatican concerning the Synod and the plenary indulgences. EWTN News has a great list of them if you have missed any.
Also the Vatican has a special website for the Year of Faith. Magnificat Magazines Year of Faith Companion is sold out until the end of October but they have downloaded the pages you will need until then onto their website. God bless everyone. May your prayer and study bring forth much fruit for the Lord. Respect life. Pray the rosary.
Thank you K. I will have to.
K, our diocesan newspaper had a couple of good articles about this.
Mark from PA, I didn’t know what diocese you are in but in surfing around I found that the Pennsylvania Catholic Conference has a voter’s guide for President. A real voter’s guide. Awesome!
Ecumenism is the attempt to fulfill Christ’s will (and prayer) that all may be one, that there may be one flock and one shepherd. We may not abandon Catholic Truth to achieve it.
Today’s Ecumenism efforts suck! I don’t like how lukewarm a message it conveys…I know it too well…I saw it growing up and if it wasn’t for my grandma’s prayers for us we may have left the faith long ago due to Ecumenism confusion done on my generation!
K, overall the USCCB is giant joke and body of dissenters who work against the will of the Holy Father. I would to see it abolished via Papal orders and the Church in America put under direction of the Holy Father with someone like Cardinal Burke acting a regent. I have become an avid fan of Michael Voris of Church Militant TV, this guy knows the score. He tells the truth of what is going on in the Church here in the states. People like PA would run in terror from him.
Canisius, I had a feeling that you would feel that way about the USCCB. I am glad to see that you have confidence in the Pope and Cardinal Burke. It is the Pope who has set us on this path this year. So I hope you will do as much as you can. I don’t think that canonicaly they can abolish the USCCB (since it is erected by canon law) however I also would like to see Cardinal Burke become a liason or advocate for the laity (or even just participate in online discussions). He is a very valuable person in the Church. Gentlemanly, too. Michael Voris is one of the (if not the) most intriguing lay people in the Catholic Church. As often as he tells people to find a traditional parish, I have wondered where he attends Mass. The diocese of Detroit has not been a hotbed of traditionalism. His personal history and conversion story, along with what he has achieved, and also the controversies concerning him and how he handled them are the makings for a great book or movie. I think he has improved a lot over the past couple of years in terms of accuracy. Many people really like him and he has a really devoted following to the point where some call it a cult. (Pray for him because the temptations that come with that can cause a fall, as we saw with some other popular Catholic figures.) I recently discovered his “mic’d up” videos on YouTube. I did noticed that in his ad for his appearance in OK tomorrow that he talked about the rupture since Vatican II. That is one of views of Vatican II that the Pope is trying to reform this year-although I think the Pope is more concerned with those who threw away Catholic Tradition on the faulty belief that Vatican II did away with the past. I would love to see a Michael Voris-Cardinal Burke discussion.
Voris opponents probably refer to it as a cult, he followers know he is a faithful Catholic who inspires. I am sorry to disagree with you and the Pope, but here has been a rupture, no one can tell me with a straight face the Church has not radically changed for the worse since the Council.. Like I said I am taking fortress mentality and will take refuge in TLM parishes or SSPX chapel, and unfortunately I think the hierarchy here in States will do all it can to attack the TLM and traditional catholics.It is time to face facts, the Council results are in and it has been a complete disaster. That’s why I think schism with the modernists ie the church of nice is the only answer…In time they will fade and we will grow
We need to stand firm in the faith united with the Vicar of Christ. If anyone is going to go schismatic, let it be the modernists.
Tolerance? you are kidding, its a total embrace of all religions.. even shame for being Catholic
Mark from PA writes (to another poster): “I don’t consider name calling to be Truth.” I answer: YOU, of all people, have the chutzpah to say that? Frankly I’m sick to my stomach at the unrelenting and routine way that you have viciously attacked, slandered and demonized one poster after another–good and kind people who have charitably and painstakingly sought to help you find your way back to the truth from your numerous errors–only to be answered by outrageous and unjustified accusations from you of racism, hatred, bigotry–etc. I watch the snarky and mean-spirited way you twist and distort people’s words wildly out of their intended context so that you have them hating you, hating “gay” people, hating black people, calling President Obama an ape. And you deliver it all in that hurt-little-girl tone, trying to mask your poison in a voice of mock gentleness and innocence. I feel like saying to you, as the lawyer Joseph Welch said to Senator McCarthy at the notorious Army-McCarthy hearings: “Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? Have you left no sense of decency?” You know something, Mark–after seeing the way you take people’s words and make them mean things the writer never in his wildest imagination intended–why should I believe anything else you say? How can you be trusted to tell the truth about anything?
Larry that is exactly what we have been trying to warn people about him for at least a couple of years now…….new posters come here and think that PA is this devout man and feel sorry for him but they don’t know the history we had with him, many who have tried to correct the error he posts here from time to time. You’ll have people who have false compassion for him as described by Fulton Sheen, in his teachings about false compassion, he describes well what some have done to enable PA. I always felt that PA hates us for correcting him out of charity and so do his like minded folks too, they hate us. So to keep the peace, I have been trying to not call him on out on what he does so often, but sometimes I just get concerned that some soul may come on here and read his pro-gay comments and that they may mislead them into not seeking salvation. God bless you Larry. I know that many here have been praying for him in the way it pleases God.
Larry, if someone told you that you were an enemy of the Catholic Church and that you were a member of some ape counter church serving the Ape of God, wouldn’t you have something to say? Sorry but growing up I was never exposed to rhetoric like that. I have many friends who are not Catholic and they respect my Catholic faith. I don’t think the posters here hate black people in general but some do hate President Obama.
Obama is hated for good reason,, how can you constantly defend him and claim to be pro-life…..
You ARE an enemy of the Catholic Church, Mark. No one can reason with you here–the result of trying to engage you in civil debate is always having one’s words taken out of context and thrown back at them along with a lot of nasty innuendo demonizing the recipient as a hater, instead of answering his arguments. Your most brazen example–the one which finally provoked me to tell you exactly what I think of your viciousness– is when you mangled Catherine’s “Ape of God” letter and drew a direct connection between the word “ape” and President Obama, then concluded she was a racist. In fact, the two words are NOT even remotely connected in Catherine’s letter. The “Ape of God” is Satan. In this case, the word “ape” also functions verbally, meaning “to imitate” or “to impersonate.” In that sense, “ape” can also mean “counterfeit.” But why waste any more words? It is YOU, sir, who cannot disagree without being disagreeable. It is you who can neither face nor speak the truth. It is YOU who are the bully, not the victim. It is YOU who are the hate-filled bigot–not the others here at whom you constantly throw that insinuation!
Well, I never heard that expression before, Larry. I never heard of satan being referred to as the Ape of God. Calling me a follower of satan is worse than calling me a supporter of Obama. She was talking about Obama in that post. I hadn’t even mentioned him before in this discussion. Again, if Catherine said to you what she said to me, you probably would have said something back to her.
Larry, if I went to SSPX chapels like Canisius, would you then consider me a real Catholic? It seems like I belong to a different branch of the Church than some of the posters here.
Read Scripture, PA, and you will see what faithful and knowledgeable Catholics are trying to teach you … namely Catholicism, which you dispute. If you did not hate yourself like all gays hate themselves, then you wouldn’t hate God either. But you do because you teach against God and His holy Church.
JLS, I have read Scripture. I had Bible history in Catholic school. I took a Bible study class in college and I have attended numerous Bible studies over the years. You say that I am teaching against God and His holy Church but I don’t see that I am teaching any false doctrine. I don’t think that saying that gay people are equal in their dignity and humanity to other people goes against Church doctrine. You say “if you did not hate yourself like all gays hate themselves” but where did I say that I hated myself? I never said that. Implying that I hate God is just an insult. Do you actually say things like this to people that you know?
Abeca Christian, please tell me which posters I have expressed hatred for? I have never said that I hated anyone. Some people here do treat me with respect and charity. Others do not.
PA re read my post, it gives you the answer
I feel sorry for him because of how the other posters like you and the others here talk to him. So if people take his side, you are the one that caused it. Whatever “error” he posted way beck whenever can’t possibly justify what some of you say to him.
k stop it….
Spot on Larry, spot on……
I do not believe PA when he claims to be a chaste homosexual. He may be using this site among other things to better develop his deceit about this in his own neighborhood and parish.
V II is not a rapture from the Church of old. Canisius makes it sound like life in the Church before V II was heavenly. Remember the protestant revolution or the break of east and west? Those make V II prolems look like little puppies.
Meanwhile, the Church is still making saints, both in the Hireachy, religious ordained and lay people.
Focus on personal holiness. That is what V II was trying to achieve.
Yes JLS there is something fishy.
Give me a break, JLS. The way much of our society is, many men go on about how much they “scored” as young men. Why would I say that I was a virgin as a young man and that I am proud of this if it wasn’t the truth? Why would I come on here and say that teens should refrain from sexual activity? If I was so busy with numerous sex partners, why would I be spending time on this and other Catholic news sites? To tell you the truth, JLS, between working and numerous trips to the hospital with ailing family members, I have neither the energy nor the desire to run around. What little free time I have I use for church activities.
Mark don’t you think adults (who are not married – one man and one woman) MUST refrain from sex as well ?
Have you read the answer to question # 9 “Is the Catholic Church unfair to homosexuals? What does the Church teach? Why does it oppose gay-marriage? Can homosexuals get to heaven?”
On web site:
” What Catholics REALLY Believe SOURCE ”
– which quotes the CCC and other Church documents will verifiable links?
How many homosexuals have you told to complete abstain from sex so they can get to Heaven ?
Beth, I read the answer to question #9. I am very familiar with what the Catechism says about this. I also know that the Church teaches that people should not have sex before marriage. This is what I was taught growing up and as a young person I actually thought that most people did not have sex until they were married. (actually as an older teen because I didn’t know what sexual intercourse was until I was 17). I think people should try to live a chaste life and have said so here. I have said that I was a virgin as a teen but I think that some people here find that odd or embarrassing and I get the impression that some here are critical of me for saying something so personal.
PA, you advocate homosexual behavior in defiance of Catholic doctrine. You claim to teach children the faith. This contradiction is extremely grave and thus there is nothing trustworthy in what you say.
Mark from PA, I am sorry that your family members are ill. I pray for your wife but I guess I need to add others? There was quote from Pope Benedict XVI homily at the Synod that made me think of you. “Matrimony is a Gospel is itself.” Hope everybody’s health improves. Could use prayers for my sister. She is in ICU with condition that the doctors can’t diagnose. She improved dramatically after prayers before Divine Mercy portrait (as is promised.) But they still don’t know what went wrong.
K, I just stopped to say a few prayers for your sister. That is good that she improved, I hope that she can continue on the path to good health. Thank you for your prayers. My mother passed away earlier this year and since then my father has been in the hospital 3 times so we are trying to get him on an even keel. It hasn’t been easy. We spend a lot of time with him, trying to make sure he eats OK and takes care of himself. My wife is doing somewhat better and she watches over my dad. Getting old isn’t easy. This week was difficult as someone close to me died suddenly. Lots of funerals this year.
Mark 5:9 Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible
Mark from PA, thanks for your prayers. I will pray for your dad, too. My condolences on your mom and your friend.
Thank you, K. God bless you.
Jesus, PA, redeems man from sin. You, however, have always been without sin and this are perfectly righteous and need no salvation or redemption, and thus you do not understand the whole point of the Cross and Resurrection.
Is that supposed to be some kind of joke, JLS? I have always been without sin? I am a sinner and am certainly not perfectly righteous. Twelve years of Catholic school did not free me from sin. I suppose I wasn’t guilty of sexual sins or using people sexually, Catholic school influenced me somewhat here and the way that God made me also did but it didn’t free me from sin; for example I used to let kids copy my homework and look at my papers when we were taking tests, so there you go, I gave you examples. We all need salvation and redemption.
All the catholic events about ecumenism, talks and all the seminars will accomplish nothing. It’s the same old Catholics that go to these events. They are nothing more than social gatherings of well fed fat Catholics, without any risk whatsoever for the Gospel. Fr. Corapi comes to mind, and Father Pavone, though not corrupt, he is very married to his fancy national chief executive office.. and limelight. This sort of Catholicism is doomed to fail. Its never worked.
Its time for lazy Franciscans, Dominicans, Lost Jesuits, all the fat Legionaries, and the rest of them to get out of their uptown institutions in their well pressed cassocks together with their nun religious orders and hit the streets like Mormon kids evangelizing fallen away Catholics.
What do all these religious orders do? Think of the Eudists, instead of preaching to the Catholics, they hide themselves in parishes manning em.
FSSP takes no evangelization initiatives outside of their happy protected parish life; all of them are Lazy.
Imagine the reaction a Religious in their cassock like a Franciscan would get if they knocked on a door to see a family? They would certainly be welcome.
That is precisely what these missionary orders need to do. Old school, door by door, street by street park by park on foot preaching and converting.
All they do is sit in their comfy parishes and give high theological talks, and write books to promote on ewtn… all of them..
Think what Mother Theresa accomplished by ditching her comfy teaching position!! or Mother Angelica…
Get out and put down your nets for a catch,