There following comes from a June 3 Cruxnow article by David Gibson:
NEW YORK — Amid the national buzz over transgender celebrity Caitlyn (formerly Bruce) Jenner revealing her new female identity, a leading culture warrior in the Catholic hierarchy has denounced the spread of “gender ideology” and warned that it threatens the very foundation of the Church’s faith.
“The clear biological fact is that a human being is born either male or female,” Archbishop Salvatore Cordileone of San Francisco said at the start of an address in Manhattan Wednesday at a conference aimed at promoting an older form of the Mass in Latin.
“Yet now we have the idea gaining acceptance that biological sex and one’s personal gender identity can be at variance with each other, with more and more gender identities being invented,” said Cordileone, who is the point man in the battle against gay marriage for the US Conference of Catholic Bishops.
Cordileone did not mention Jenner by name, but his comments landed directly in the middle of a national debate that exploded on Monday when the Vanity Fair cover was published depicting Jenner for the first time as a woman — in satin lingerie and an alluring pose — and announcing she would now be known as Caitlyn, not Bruce.
Jenner, now 65, came to fame in the 1970s as a gold medal Olympian and then won a more dubious celebrity in recent years as part of the Kardashian clan of reality television stars.
In his talk in New York at the Sacra Liturgia conference, Cordileone made a point of highlighting what he saw as the unacceptable evolution in American views on sexuality.
He said that what Pope Francis has also criticized as “gender ideology” poses not only a threat to society, but also to the faith. That’s because Christianity is based on what Cordileone said is the biological reality of the God-given “complementarity” of the male-female relationship.
“This is because God has used marriage as the primary sacred sign of our relationship with him,” he said, citing an author who described God as “hetero” and male, and Israel as “hetero” and female — hence their attraction to each other.
“It’s all the story of a marriage. God’s marriage covenant with Israel is fulfilled in the blood of Christ on the cross, establishing the new and eternal covenant between him, the bridegroom, and his bride, the Church.
“When the culture can no longer apprehend those natural truths,” the archbishop continued, “then the very foundation of our teaching evaporates and nothing we have to offer will make sense.”
Cordileone said the inevitable result “is a reversion to the paganism of old, but with unique, postmodern variations on its themes, such as the practice of child sacrifice, the worship of feminine deities, or the cult of priestesses.”
He cited as evidence the recent Gallup survey on liberalizing attitudes among Americans that showed approval of polygamy rising in recent years from 7 percent to 16 percent.
Why do we not have a Pope like Abp. Cordileone? He is a man, and is not afraid to step up into the heat of battle.
And, what he says is unassailably correct. God’s plan is pretty simple: man and woman together form a family and begat children, who are then raised in the Faith. Certainly there are people who do not fit the mould, and this leaves them with a harder road to travel (but with great graces to be gained in doing so).
And then Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner pops up. What a fool, but how precisely current in today’s morality: “courage” and other words are tossed around by social commentators about Jenner’s insanity. But, he/she will make a bundle of cash.
We had two popes like AB Cordileone; now the pendulum goes in the other direction.
This seems kind of insensitive. Here is a person who has been suffering. The actions he took to relieve his sufferings were recommended by professional medical and psychological experts. Only time will tell if it helps him or hurts him.
How does it turn into-oh this the end of our Church? The Church will be here until the end of the world. I really don’t see how one person wearing makeup is going to destroy it. I don’t see how a few confused individuals are going to undermine societies view on gender. Like OB’s are gonna put on a birth certificate- sex to be determined at puberty. I don’t get why it is such a big deal.
i also haven’t seen ANY national debate over it. There have been a few people who think its funny but…
Any time a well known celebrity disfigures and abuses his body,
he sets a terrible example for the young.
Huh? “Suffering”? You completely read out anything Catholic.
This man mutilated himself, and he is getting money (and admiration, as your words show). This is no different than a homosexual talking about his “hurt” by not being able to marry in the Church, or a woman wanting to live with her boyfriend, or have an abortion. These people all have “experts” (think back at the “experts” that testified before Sodomite Judge Walker).
Jenner gives scandal and his example may lead others to “try” to live by their impulses, rather than by their Faith and intellect (not emotion).
The push for gay weddings is not about marrying in the church. They are fighting for the right to have civil marriages that are recognized by the state and receive the same benefits as traditional marriages (tax benefits, visitation rights, inheritance, etc.)
Besides, the vast majority of homosexuals are non-religious. 60% of homosexual youth are non-religious. And, I think 47% identify as atheist or agnostic. They don’t want to get married by priests.
Didn’t “civil union” legislation” confer all the rights/benefits that gay marriage does? The push for gay marriage has, I’m afraid, a much more pervasive agenda. It’s already shown its heads: disapproving florists, wedding cake makers, owners of reception cites are forced to participate against their will—their faith-based refusals be damned. In the “LGBT ETC” world, it seems, tolerance and basic civility is very one-sided.
No civil unions were always presented as conferring all the rights and benefits of marriage, but they never did because states were free to not recognize out of state unions and the feds never recognized them either.
He’s not Catholic. The Church has no moral condemnation for transgenderism that I can find. I believe it considers it a psychological disorder The only thing I have found is that baptismal certificates cannot be changed and transgender persons cannot marry in the Church, nor become a priest or religious.. Also, it said that sex change operations (which Jenner has not had) can be morally licit in some extreme cases of mental turmoil. A priest who has a sex change is still a priest because sex change operations do not really change a person’s sex just external manifestations of it.
This is from a Catholic News services article in 2003. If you can find anything more up to date, please post.
most people have been supportive.
I do not think that Archbishop Cordileone was talking about Caitlyn Jenner or any transgender person. I think he was talking about the academic discipline of gender studies and what has become known as gender theory (and like all theories there is more than one.) Gender study and theories acknowledge the two biological sexes (male and female).
There is nothing inherently, intrinsically and exclusively female about wearing dresses and wearing makeup. These are gender expressions in the late history of the Western World. Does a man who wears them become a woman? Does a woman who wear pants become a man? No.
Yes, but his “experts” were incompetent and lacked basic skills. Instead of offering psychotherapy to help resolve his confusion, they recommend that he mutilate his body to accommodate his confusion. This is what psychologists call codependency.
He has had breast implants (I think). He has not had gender reassignment surgury-and they don’t recommend that. That is extreme and only a minority (25%) of transgender people have that.
He said he received hormone therapy and that helped his suffering. Hopefully, he was presented with options other than transitioning, but I don’t know. Perhaps his wealth and celebrity are disadvantages. He did have other options and he still does. He may come to regret this period in his life or he may not. He is walking through something and all we can do is pray for him and for others who have this suffering in their self.
Anon, thank you for the clarification. Nevertheless, Jenner needs to take charge and find a therapist with much better skills to deal with his confusion. Unless the physical and hormonal changes helps him to see his folly, such changes plus going public will only hinder the healing for which he is in desperate need.
Steve,you have zero evidence that her doctors were incompetent or engage in “codependency”. Your use of the word shows you don’t even know what it means.
Dear Mr. Fellow, codependency refers to enabling behavior. In this case, the therapist enabled the behavior rather than confronting it. Regarding your second point, Jenner is biologically a man who has the male hormones to physically compete as a man in the Olympics. Given the brain’s enormous capacity for all sorts of dysfunction, I would definitely assume that his confusion stems from psychological dysfunction: not physical disfunction.
Steve Seitz, you have made no examination whatsoever of Jenner. You haven’t examined physically, biochemically, psychologically, environmentally or genetically. You have absolutely no evidence to come to any conclusion whatosever about the Jenner case. You, like so many others, are to quick to condemn what you do not understand and have not studied.
Who is a her? Jenner is a man. He said he did not have a sex change operation, nor does he have any intention to do so at this time.
(So he can play it both ways.)
Dear Mr. Fellow, I’ve evaluated Jenner generically based on what I’ve seen and with my knowledge of psychology. I’ve not given a specific evaluation. You, on the other hand, feel that an opinion can only be given if one has physically, biochemically, psychologically, environmentally, or genetically evaluated Jenner. Therefore, since I sincerely doubt that you have such intimate knowledge of Jenner, you’ve stuck a gag in your own mouth, under pain of hypocrisy. How do you justify opining on this issue under your own rules of engagement?
YFC, as you probably know, gender dysphoria that continues into adulthood in considered a stable psychological dysfunction. The treatment is to make the sufferer comfortable with it. In the not-so-distant past, the treatment was to help the patient transition. So those who did not want to transition but just wanted it to go away had very little help. Now that all these new genders are being “invented”, some people are finding relief in just being allowed to be who they are (ex. s male with gender dysphoria who accepts that this is part of himself and does not want to become a woman may be more comfortable defining himself as androgynous.)
CCC: ” 364 The human body shares in the dignity of “the image of God”:
it is a human body precisely because it is animated by a spiritual soul, and it is the whole human person that is intended to become, in the body of Christ, a temple of the Spirit:
Man, though made of body and soul, is a unity. Through his very bodily condition he sums up in himself the elements of the material world. Through him they are thus brought to their highest perfection and can raise their voice in praise freely given to the Creator.
For this reason man may not despise his bodily life.
Rather he is obliged to regard his body as good and to hold it in honor since God has created it and will raise it up on the last day. “
” For this reason man may not despise his bodily life.
Rather he is obliged to regard his body as good
and to hold it in honor since God has created it
and will raise it up on the last day “
Just because Bruce Jenner claims he is a woman does not mean he is one. Don’t validate the lie, after all, when you child claimed he was a puppy dog, did you go along with that too?
Prayer and therapy folks, and recognize the demonic assault that is underway throughout the world. Mr. Jenner is not the only one to succumb to Satan’s lies in the arena of gender politics. Think Ireland :(
Kristin, Caitlin is transgender. This is not the work of the demon, it’s not demonic, and honestly, your finger wagging does nothing to help her or anyone in her situation. It’s just pure judgementalism on your part, pure and simple.
Giving in to his temptation is of the devil, “Your Fellow Catholic”. No different than giving in to the temptation for homosexual sex, or fornication, or adultery — Jenner defaces what God created.
His help is to go to a Catholic Church and learn what he must do to avoid mortal sin. There is no other way. The path chosen is insanity.
I don’t think the church has ever opined about transgenderism. I don’t think we should pretend that things are sins when they really are not.
You really do look for definitions, don’t you, “Your Fellow Catholic”? But, we are not trying to serve the Devil, are we?
Jenner mutilated his body (and apparently will continue to do so). This is sinful. Just as homosexual sex was sinful before the Second Edition of the Catholic Catechism was published (or any Catholic writing, for that matter). Something is not sinful until the Church “opines” about it. But you know that, and are only looking for some dust to throw around, like all good dissemblers of the Truth.
Actually they are YFC….as much as you don’t want them to be…
Tell me St. Christopher,
Who is insulting God more? A person who twists God’s word in a pathetic attempt to find a reason to believe he is better than everyone else? Or, a transsexual who changes their sex in a desperate attempt to alleviate lifelong distress they don’t understand?
That’s why I believe you hurl more insults at God on a daily basis on CCD than anything Caitlyn Jenner has done.
What? “Twists”? “Pathetic attempt to find a reason to believe he is better than everyone else”? “Hurl more insults at God . . .” Huh??
No one, “JonJ” seeks to insult anyone on CCD. Jenner voluntarily mutilates himself, and then you and others in the LBGT community seek to make his actions virtuous, calling those that are adverse to Jenner’s sickness, guilty of hurling insults at God? No, homosexual perversion, and “transgenderism” that results in this kind of thing, are abominations before God and Man. Of course, you are outraged by this, because you see evil as good and are offended by anyone that cites the Faith against such beliefs.
“Who is insulting God more?” = YOU ARE Jon J.
You have taken your God given gift of a bright intellect and chosen to misuse that gift by occluding the FULL LIGHT OF TRUTH. You have chosen to first serve the effects of Original Sin over serving Christ FIRST. You are a follower of the culturally inspired gospel of false compassion. The father of lies always counts on that particular vulnerability too.
No “YFC”, Bruce is a man, and a very confused one at that. “Caitlin” is a figment of Bruce’s imagination. The fruits of the devil are chaos and confusion, both of which are prevalent in this sorrowful Jenner situation.
“YFC”, advising prayer and therapy for those adding or lopping off body parts is compassion, not judgement. Perhaps you are rattled by the dots connecting to the demonic. Peace of soul is fruit of the Holy Spirit, would that we all find it :)
YFC, Caitlin is a creation of Bruce Jenner.
And HE has stated HE has no intention of removing HIS male organs.
This is called – having it both ways.
Whatever suits your mood.
” It’s just pure judgementalism on your part, pure and simple.” Ah yes YFC the mortal sin of the progressive Left, anyone dare making a moral judgment is evil.. Judgementalism may it happen more and more everyday until the progressive left turns to dust….
While Jenner hangs on to his wedding tackle he will still be known as Bruce by most Americans. If she is brave, off with it.
God bless Archbishop Cordileone!
Transgenderism is a definite abnormality, an illness! It is not normal, and a tragedy! A transgender is really NOT the gender they “WANT” to be– they are what they are, an ABNORMAL GENDER– with a highly abnormal medical illness! Very sad! Sort of like Siamese twins, or babies born with a mental disturbance. A transgender is a poor soul who does not feel at ease, in the gender they were born as. You really cannot “pretend” you are a different gender! You cant really marry, either– and shouldn’t! You just have to live with what God gave you, and pray and do your best! Yes– God has a plan for you, and He wants ultimately, to save your soul– no matter what!!
I don’t think poor Bruce Jenner– or, “Caitlyn Jenner”– will ever find happiness, no matter what he tries to do, with thousands of dollars of medical experiments, to try to “change” him into a woman! He is still what he is– TRANSGENDER!! Born with some kind of mental disturbance, regarding his gender, as a man! To portray him as a “circus freak,” on the cover of a ladies’ magazine– is a tragedy, though he may not realize it! About like viewing the poor “Siamese twins,” at the circus! VERY CRUEL!! He needs Christ, and a quiet life, away from the world!!
The highest suicide rates are amongst those who mess with God’s creation of their human body.
They think they know more than God.
Bruce “Caitlyn” Jenner may undergo expensive hormone therapy. Bruce “Caitlyn” may have plastic surgery performed by the most experienced surgeons money can buy. Bruce “Caitlyn” may undergo sex reassignment surgery. But after all of this medical treatment and mutilation of his body, just take a sample of Bruce “Caitlyn’s” blood and tissue and send it off to a laboratory for analysis. The results will demonstrate that Bruce “Caitlyn” still has XY Chromosomes – meaning that Bruce “Caitlyn” Jenner is still a male. END OF STORY!!!
Not so, Mary Jo. Individuals with AIS (Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome) have cells that do not respond to testosterone. Thus, even though they have XY chromosomes, they can ONLY develop female secondary sexual characteristics.
You can juice them to the gills with testosterone, and they won’t develop as men. Since the adrenal glands also produce sex hormones, even men will have small amounts of estrogen in their system. Thus, AIS individuals will be both physiologically, and psychologically female. However, they do not have proper genitals, and most AIS women will have surgery to correct this. They will then take female hormones and live their lives as women.
Thus there ARE some XY individuals who are legitimately women.
There is nothing wrong with Bruce Jenner’s chromosomes or His physical male parts.
How do you know? Are you able to determine chromosomes, hormone levels, and gestational history by looking at someone over a TV?
That’s a pretty amazing ability. You have a great future in medical diagnosis.
Jenner was born a man and is not permitted to mutilate his creation to please some interior impulses. Time to stop playing dress-up, Jenner, and act the man you were born to be.
Do not listen to apologists that use your perversion to justify their own. The world is full of “medical” charlatans, Jenner. Find a priest, become Catholic, confess your sins, and step forth for the remainder of your life as a man.
St. Christopher, he did not mutilate his genitals. He had facial surgery and breast implants and a laryngeal shave.
A man telephoned Rush Limbough a day ago and said he thought he was a dog, and his advisor told him to catch flying objects like a dog would do. Even though it is only 1% of the population who has ‘trans’ problems, the media acts like this is normal and correct, and that we are the weirdos.. We have become pagan, and only a total turning back to God will save us. This will be aided by obeying what Our Blessed Mother said at Fatima.
Tell me Father Karl, if a person has AIS (Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome, see above post), or if they are a genetic mosaic such that some of their cells are XY while others are XX, has that person “mutilated” themselves if they get surgery to get typical male or female genitals?
Since we know these intersex conditions exist, and we also know that we would have vilified them as homosexuals when these conditions were unknown 200 years ago, could Caitlyn Jenner has an intersexual condition that our science cannot identify?
If so, is what Caitlyn Jenner did sinful? If Jenner has such an unknown condition, do people who attack and vilify Jenner commit sin? What if Jenner believes this to be true, but is actually in error? Is that a sin?
Exellent posts JonJ.Also, we have to presume that in her decades long struggle of being a woman living in a man’s body, that she was essentially living a lie. She was presenting herself as a man, and yet knew in her head and heart that she was a woman. Living a lie is a sin. Good priests should be encouraging people to live truth not lies. Also, during those decades, she was presumably following her conscience. Those who judge Caitlin deny the absolute requirement to follow one’s conscience. This leads people into sin, not out from under it.
Dear Mr. Fellow, Jenner is not a woman living in a man’s body. Rather, he’s a man who is confused about his gender. It’s not proper to categorize this as a lie.
Regarding conscience, the Catechism states that one must follow one’s conscience. It also states that if someone has a deformed conscience {such as Jenner likely has), the person WILL be held accountable for the things they did that caused it to become deformed over time. Therefore, they have a responsibility to reform their conscience so that it doesn’t lead them to Hell.
He did say that he hated the term “woman living in a man’s body.” He said that is not what he was experiencing. I do not think we have heard the whole story. It started when he was a young child that he like to wear his mother’s and sister’s clothes. Whether he has figured it out correctly and will be happy with his life as Caitlyn time will tell. He is on a journey of self-discovery and we should just pray for him. I mean no disrespect by using male pronouns. He was Bruce and a he during the period I am talking about.
“deny the absolute requirement to follow one’s conscience” YFC thecorrect phrase is “a properly formed Catholic conscience”…I guess you missed that in Catechism class…If a man’s conscience told him to marry his sister, should he follow it… or is any perversion OK with you….
No, “Your Fellow Catholic,” the posts of “JonJ” are execrable. Jenner needs to discover God, not what shade of lipstick looks best. Pray for him, so that he does not become like Judas, and find a near-by tree (when he finally discovers what he has done).
Yes, what Bruce Jenner did was SINFUL.
He mutilated his body – so far by hormones only (and some plastic surgery to his face).
And because of his notoriety, and the secular press he is teaching others to mutilate their bodies as well.
There is no evidence that Mr. Jenner had any XX or XY or other rare sexual abnormality.
He is acting upon his own perverted sexual desires.
Jenner has male genitals and should not be permitted to use a woman’s rest room.
With all respect, TED B, you do not get to pronounce another person’s actions sinful. Not in your sphere of competence, not in anybody’s. So instead of running around with your little magic sin wand, how about you look within your own soul and find out what is sinful, and turn back tot he Lord?
YFC, yes we do get to quote from Church teaching..
Mutilation of one’s body is a Mortal Sin.
Mortal sin requires more than an act. It has to involve the intention of the person committing the act.
Remember that in order for a sin to be mortal 3 components are required.
1) Grave matter,
2) Full knowledge that the act is a sin,
3) Full consent of the Will.
I have never heard that mutilation of one’s body is a Mortal sin. Could you please tell us where you learned that.
Piercings? Tattoos? Plastic surgury? There must be some better guidelines????
Are you perhaps thinking of intentional harm to the body?
Fr. K. …. I could call Rush and say I was SuperWOMAN and he’d babble about it. His stories, opinions etc. are irellevent to serious Catholic dialouge.
I did not know this conference (Sacra Liturgia) existed. Good to know.
The new proposal for the San Francisco teacher’s handbook is on the SF Archdiocese website. While there is no more mention of same-sex marriage, homosexuality, contraception as being evil, the teachers union is still not happy with it’s spelling out of Catholic morality on marriage and is afraid it will be used as an excuse to get rid of teachers.
“The clear biological fact is that a human being is born either male or female,”
My concern with this statement is “What about those who are born with genital abnormalities where it is not clear to the doctors and parents whether the baby is male or female?”
What about babies born blind, or without arms or legs, or a host of other problems? Good grief, sometimes I wonder about how people think!
The last part of my post was edited.
There are people, also, who wonder why did God make me this way?
The Catholic Church or a Catholic prelate is not saying “God makes all people with eyesight. God makes all people with arms and legs.”
What would you say if he said that?
It’s a valid question, Dana. If someone has genital or cellular intersex conditions, are they non persons? Should they just commit suicide to prevent anyone else from being uncomfortable?
Should they be forced to live half-way, and never participate in life, because they need to have respect for the body God gave them? What if someone has an intersex condition that our science can’t identify? Should they simply live in misery and do nothing doing something might make others uncomfortable?
Anonymous, XX and XY chromosomes will assist in medical rarities where there is an abnormality.
Yes, but there are chromosomal abnormalities as well.
My question that was cut off was ( i am going to rephrase it) what are they to think about themselves if they hear from the Church that God only makes people biologically male or female? We are getting into “children of a lesser god” territory here.
People know that God made them male or female.
Those very small percentage of humans born with physical abnormalities know that God made them male or female – with a mutation that took place.
PROVEN PHYSICAL ABNORMALITIES can and should be treated medically.
BODILY MULTILATION must never be permitted for Mental Illness.
Physical abnormalities can be seen with the human eye.
Mental abnormalities can not be seen.
Jenner was born an in-tact male who fathered children.
He had zero physical abnormalities.
He has made himself an outward freak only, who has no intention of removing his male parts.
He isn’t kidding anyone. He does not really want to be a woman. He wants the option of doing whatever he is in the mood to do…
Jenner is 65 years old and six foot two with a deep voice.
It will take much more than air-brushed photos by lesbian photographer, Annie Leibovitz, to help Jenner to pretend he is a woman.
Jenner needs serious psychiatric help.
Oh wow! I didn’t know Annie Leibovitz was a fellow lesbian. Good for her!
Wow C&H another famous sexual deviant and you give her praise…
Psalm 139 says, “You knit me together in my mother,s womb.” God knit Bruce Jenner together in his mother’s womb. God is the Creator. Caitlyn Jenner created “herself” through the use of medical procedures and hormone replacement and of course lots of counseling to help in the “transition.” I wonder if “she” ever spoke with a priest or a minister or a rabbi before imposing her own wishes upon what God had made.
Bruce Jenner is a non-denominational Christian. He believes that God made him as he is and that God gave him this problem as a trial (“because everybody gets something’.) I would assume that since he formerly felt that he was living a lie and hiding a secret about the way that God made him, that he probably feels he is honoring God by living his truth. I think this is why he has been given so much support and been hailed as courageous. A lot of people hide who they “really are” because it is not acceptable to their family or their church or society. It is not just in extreme things like transgenderism but in career choice, clothing, how they sit or move or what they buy.
Bruce Jenner was born in-tact. He is a man.
Bruce Jenner does not go to any Church.
Anonymous, your response “he believes that……” and your elaboration of said phrase makes you a relativist. You and Pontius Pilate would make good friends. “What is truth?” PP
The article is not about Caitlyn Jenner. It is about whether gender identity theories undermine the whole concept of Christianity. I am trying to understand why? Do you have any insight into it?
Because they directly contradict the teachings of the church on gender and sexuality. “When the culture can no longer apprehend those natural truths,” the archbishop continued, “then the very foundation of our teaching evaporates and nothing we have to offer will make sense.” Or more succinctly, when one aspect of the church’s teaching is proven to be false – or perhaps flawed is a better word to use in this case – all other “infallible” teachings will be subject to questioning as well. The allegory of “marriage” used by the church as described above is very much dependent on an unwavering adherence to traditional assumptions about gender; this allegory fails if traditional assumptions about gender and sexuality are shown to be…
Rev Lahey I think you misunderstand her situation. Presumably, she is listening ever more deeply to the voice of God who is speaking his creation in her life. She may not put it that way, but I don’t think it is fair at all to say that she is creating something for herself. She is listening to the voice of God, not recreating it.
Mankind has no authority to play God, which is what Jenner is doing. Ditto, in vitro fertilization, birth control, abortion, euthanasia, and all the rest. Where do you think Catholicism has been on these/this issue for the past millenia or so?
Further, Jenner presents a major scandal to the young, who might be influenced to sin by his behavior. Your comments are simply unbelievable for someone who professes the Catholic Faith.
And if Jenner puts on a frog costume, with appropriate make-up, will he become a frog? “[L]istening to God’s voice”? Get real! And what’s with this “she” and “her” stuff? As the movie character Austin Powers said in one scene, “She’s a MAN, baby!!”.
YFC,
That is hay that has already been through the horse. “Listening to the voice of God?” Really?
Many have said that it is wonderful that s/he feels safe to go public with this transformation and that it will make it ok for others in similar situations to do the same thing. Really?
I think that it says more about us as a nation and a people than anything else. Why do we read magazines that produce this kind of junk? Why is this national news? Where are people’s moral judgments? Why do people watch this junk on TV? Why are the K’s “reality show” so popular? We have become a sick people to want to make this stuff so public and to adulate it in public.
Bob…I agree … the TV industry, run I suppose by shophisticated people, has found out it can make $$$$ by showing us lower class (Honey Boo Boo) families or just plain trashy ones. (Duck Dynesty, the K’s, the Dugars) to laugh at. The TV people are laughing at them ….all the way to the bank.
Pope Francis: ‘Gender Theory Is An Error of the Human Mind That Leads to So Much Confusion’
https://www.cnsnews.com/blog/michael-w-chapman/pope-francis-gender-theory-error-human-mind-leads-so-much-confusion
– Pope Francis has condemned the idea of “gender theory” on several occasions, calling it “an error of the human mind” and a notion that “does not recognize the order of creation.”
In describing modern-day “Herods” that “plot designs of death, that disfigure the face of man and woman,” Pope Francis cited nuclear weapons, “genetic manipulation” and “gender theory, that does not recognize the order of creation,” as quoted in LifeSiteNews, referencing the 2015 book, Pope Francis: ‘This Economy Kills’
Thank you for the link. Confused is where I am at right now, but I am trying to learn.
Mankind is not allowed to play God with their bodies. Self-mutilation is what this sin is called. Attempting to change one’s gender is an insult to God, our Creator.
Father Karl, are you against plastic surgery? Does a nose job insult God because we have modified the body given to us by nature? Is all cosmetic surgery evil? What about changing your eye color? Or ear piercings? Is a nose ring self mutilation?
What about circumcision? Is that self-mutilation? If you don’t think so, please explain why. Does an intersexed individual mutilate their body if an XX chromosome individual is born with an enlarged clitoris which looks like a phallus has it surgically transformed into a vagina? What if we do an autopsy on Jenner and find that Jenner’s hypothalumus shows a structure that is typical of a woman rather than a man? Could we then say that Jenner’s surgery is corrective?
If Jenner’s brain is…
Of course, Abp. Cordileone is lying about people being born male or female. Some are born with characteristics, organs, and even cell with both kinds of chromosomes (genetic mosaics).
Jon J. I don’t think he’s lying, but rather that he doesn’t know. He ought to study up and meet some real live transgender people among his faithful (vs. an image on a magazine cover) before he talks about the subject again.
No C&H the good Archbishop should continue to speak the Truth
JonJ,
Sounds to me like this anomaly has effected you or someone close to you. Granted, these things do happen, but they are abnormalities and require very astute evaluation before drastic action is taken. I am pretty sure that this was Bruce Jenner’s situation. His celebrity and money allowed him to act on his sickness and the sick public and the degenerate media granted him the approval he sought.
I got interested in this problem in grad school b/c I liked Sociobiology.
I thought Sociobiology had a couple of problems in 1) the behavioral underpinnings of warfare and 2) persistence of gender issues in human behavior. My study led me talk to many people with these issues and one effect is I saw how horribly they were treated.
Second, rat experiments show that cross-gender hormones applied to early stages of the developing embryo can cause adult female rats (for example) to demonstrate male typical mounting behaviors. Thus, these issues could be due to hormone surges during gestation.
What a complete waste of an education. In fact, “JonJ”, studies like “sociobiology” are simply mind-numbing exercises in hubris, much like race or gender-focused majors.
Far too many real decisions, from rulemakings by EPA to decisions made in the Church, are based on very small, or meaningless, “data”. Policies of every kind reflect made-up “academic” specialties, and their accompanying (and self-serving) facts. Certainly homosexual demands are often based on everything from silly to wrong premises on behavior, morality, and the like. Just take a look at the show trial put on by Sodomite Judge Walker. What a complete and utter waste…
Ivy, that was McHugh’s own study undertaken in 1979, which he used to end Johns Hopkin’s transsexual surgery. Here’s the weird thing, I think McHugh is correct in some cases: there are people who seek transsexual surgery as a form of sexual fetishism.
I don’t think he’s right in all cases. Mainstream psychiatry holds that transsexual surgery is the best current therapy for some people that leads to improved psychiatric functioning. However, I think that no one truly understands what causes “gender dysphoria”, and all current therapies are somewhat lacking.
St. Christopher, gosh my education gave me the option of 1) going to medical school, 2) going to law school, 3) becoming a CIA case officer, or 4) becoming the co-founder of a health care IT firm.
Those are some pretty good career options.
GOD made them male and female, the Archbishop is simply reminding a confused world of this truth. Lift those scales from your eyes people!
JonJ, what is the exact percentage of human beings who are NOt born male or female?
Be specific to the USA; and then to the rest of the world.
Give us the numbers, not your yak.
– – – –
Those born with deformities should be assisted medically.
Those who are physically in-tact should not be able to have operations or hormones at the expense of taxpayers. Period.
Mental illness is not an excuse for society to help someone self-mutilate.
1 out of 1000 people are born with some kind of genital anomaly. That does not mean that they are not born male or female.
When Archbishop Cordileone gave the speech, he acknowledge intersex people (that was not in this article.) though he trivialized them and used a dated and offensive term to refer to them.
Notice the Bible says “God made them male and female.” Not “biologically male or female”, which is what Archbishop Cordileone said. And he was not talking about sex change but gender identity.
Good point, Anony, and I would also remind the Archbishop that the same book of the Bible that says he made them male and female also said that he set two lights in the sky, one to rule the day and the other to rule the night. Well, we know that he moon has no light of its own, that there are some hours of the night and nights in the month that the moon hardly “rules” the night, and that sometimes the moon is visible during the day. If we can understand that Genesis is not a physics book, why can’t we also not understand that it is not a biology or a psychology text either.
Abp. Cordileone’s observations are neither factual or science based. By marginalizing the “in betweens”, he helps maintain the cultural undercurrent that these people DESERVE to be the objects of ridicule and abuse.
In the case of people with known chromosomal or developmental defects, they are not at fault for these issues. In the case of transgenders with no identifiable biological defect, they are either: 1) subject to a developmental problem not identifiable to our science or 2) struggling with a severe psychological malady.
In neither case is abuse, ridicule, and exclusion from jobs, society, or church communities appropriate responses.
Well, “JonJ”, anyone that majored in puppetry, or science fiction literature, or Canadian Studies, can do the same.
In fact, people with such nutty and vacant majors, are ill-educated, knowing very little about history, literature, the arts, generally, languages and mathematics. Oh yes, they often have high GPAs, given the minor demands of their majors. But they do get jobs. Read the post.
Not really. Medical school has significant basic science requirements. In fact, pre-meds were generally contemptuous of “history, arts, literature, and language classes” since we’d parachute in and blow those curves pretty easily while fulfilling our liberal arts requirements. Math, though, was much harder.
In fact, I used to take as many high level Lit classes as I could because I could roll out of bed and get certain.A’s. Had I been a college English major, I would have graduated magna without much difficulty.
I don’t think you understand that Sociobiology is a hard science field. Gender theorists hate us, since we believe in biological essentialism—that genetics drives fundamentally different behavior in men and woman.
It is best, for people with extremely painful and unusual life situations, such as Bruce (or “Caitin”) Jenner– to avoid the pubic and media! Better for him to go and lead a quiet, retired life, away from the noise and filth of the world, with close family and friends. Try to find peace and acceptance of the painful life situation he must endure– with God’s help. Try to seek a quiet, peaceful life, and get involved in a few worthwhile activities– seek self-improvements, and happiness, in service to others! This life can really be painful– but it is only a training ground, a place of purification– for our true life, with God, in Heaven! And God wants our soul, more than anything!
Since when do ‘anonymous’ radical homosex Trolls get to post utter denigrations about the Arch-Bishop and his rational reasonable logical fact based scientifically and morally valid observations?? This deceitful ‘JJ’ Troll should not allowed back on these boards.
There are Only Two Genders – Male (XY) and Female (XX) and only by combining Male & Female can Procreation (All of which is Heterosexual) take place. Anything else is a Genetic or Gestational Birth Defect. That does not make these unfortunates any less Human and Deserving of our care – but it does not Create a New Gender – which is the political pogrom of the Gaystapo.
In the case of people with known chromosomal or developmental defects, they are not at fault for these issues. In the case of transgenders with no identifiable biological defect, they are either: 1) subject to a developmental problem not identifiable to our science or 2) struggling with a severe psychological malady.
In neither case is abuse, ridicule, and exclusion from jobs, society, or church communities appropriate responses.
I do not think transgenders are “at fault” either.
Dr Paul R. McHugh -Former Psychiatrist in Chief, Johns Hopkins Hospital, states in a 2004 article Surgical Sex that when interviewing men who presented for sex reassignment, it struck him as strange that the men spent an unusual amount of time thinking and talking about sex and their sexual experiences; their sexual hungers and adventures seemed to preoccupy them. Second, discussion of babies or children provoked little interest from them; indeed, they seemed indifferent to children. But third, and most remarkable, many of these men-who-claimed-to-be-women reported that they found women sexually attractive and that they saw themselves as “lesbians.”
And from the Wall St Journal 2014: “the media are doing no favors either to the public…
Each sexual act must be open to procreation by God – if it is His will.
This is the intent of sex.
This is why contraception, homosexual acts, fornication, adultery, masturbation, pornography are ALL MORTAL SINS.
The same is true of sex changes.
Promoting sex changes is a Mortal Sin.
As long as Jenner has male organs, he should stay out of women’s rest rooms.
He is still a man.
POPE FRANCIS – While Bruce Jenner’s PRETEND transformation into a woman is dominating the news this week and being applauded by liberals,
it merits noting that Pope Francis has CONDEMNED
the idea of “gender theory” on several occasions,
calling it “an error of the human mind”
and a notion that “does not recognize the order of creation.”
Gender theory or theories encompasses a lot of different things. It seems to be what the Popes are objecting to is a “gender theory that does not recognize the order of creation.” Apparently this is in a book. The articles I’ve read do not specify which or whose gender theory he is referring to.
“With this attitude, man commits a new sin, that against God the Creator,” the pope says. “The true custody of creation does not have anything to do with the ideologies that consider man like an accident, like a problem to eliminate.” So apparently he is referring to atheistic gender theory????????????????
Go on the Vatican web site and read the Pope’s statement for yourself. It is too long to be posted here in entirety.
If you want to MUTILATE your own body;
or want to go to Hell for sodomy – that is your free will.
Just don’t ask all the taxpayers to pay for it. Pay for your own.
Now go – do your thing.
It is a MORTAL SIN to mutilate your body.
HOMOSEXUAL Acts (as well as fornication and adultery) are Mortal Sins.
I am not transgender or gay. A faithful Catholic would not tell someone to go commit a mortal sin.
I will look at the Vatican website.
But I think I learned on wikipedia what they are objecting to. Apparently there are academics who are promoting the idea that there are at least 5 genders. And that traditional binary gender classifications are inadequate to explain human gender. This isn’t just a man who feels he is a woman, but people who feel they have no gender or that they move between genders.
Sorry, “Anonymous”, there are only two.
The world — through its present master, Satan — will always seek to confuse and divide.
Why? To move people away from Christ.
Of course, life has its own complexities, and Mankind has deep-seated moral failings, since Adam and Eve. But we know, by intellect, The Truth, and Christ promised strength to meet every test (if we try and trust). Jenner failed because he refused to meet his test. Too bad Jenner did not attack his own identity problem like he attacked athletic challenges in the Olympics.
Yes there are only two genders/ sexes.
I don’t think you know what Jenner has gone through. You do not know that he failed. He ain’t dead yet.
“Do you not know that you are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells with you?
If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy him. For God’s temple is holy, and that temple you are.” 1 Cor 3:16.
The Namby Pambys, and those light in the loafers want to always question what is true and just. If someone is born with both male and female organs, the doctor would decide which one is more dominate, and the parents would then agree for an operation. So all these gender changes which happen when a person is middle aged are sins against God. The one who is questioning his (or her) gender should pray to God for guidance, have a good spiritual director, and not give in to the devil who plants these doubts into people’s minds.
And, many of those intersex people who had their sex “determined” by their parents, or a medical professional, grew up to be miserable—often because it is surgically easier to create a vagina than a penis. That led to many inter-sexed individuals being assigned as girls.
This happened in the classic John/Joan case. Parents had twin boys; one twin’s penis was irreparably damaged by a botched circumcision attempt. Sexologist John Money advised that gender is a social construct and said the child would do just fine raised as a girl. Didn’t work. Kid was miserable, and went back to being a boy at 14.
What’s sick is John Money lied about the case and reported it as validating his theories. He also treated those twins like lab rats.
Once you cut yourself off from the traditional and eternal truths of the Catholic Church concerning morality, you will soon spiritually wither up and die. Instead of being a moral compass which used to guide western civilization, the post Vatican II Church has urged her followers to wade in the sewer of paganism. When we are told we should not judge, and not proselytize, you know there is something wrong. There is trouble in River City.
The whole article is a well written analysis:
“One screwed up Jenner-ation
https://www.renewamerica.com/columns/mbarber/150608 – By J. Matt Barber
“Johns Hopkins Hospital was the pioneer in “gender reassignment surgery.” It now refuses to perform the procedures. Dr. Paul R. McHugh, the hospital’s former psychiatrist-in-chief and current distinguished service professor of psychiatry, has noted that, as even the left-leaning APA reluctantly acknowledges,
transgenderism is a “mental disorder.” The idea of a “sex change” is “biologically impossible,” he observes…”
Take the cited fact that post-therapy transgenders have a 20x suicide attempt rate compared to the normal population. What it doesn’t mention is that untreated transgenders have a 41% suicide attempt rate. With suicide attempt rates around 1% of the adult population, therapy apparently reduces attempts by ½.
Like I posted above, pretty much all therapy choices seem have disappointing results…
Bruce Jenner doesn’t have a chromosomal defect or the genitals of two sexes. DNA can be determined to assist unfortunate souls who need such help. He is not one of them. These straw men are meant to confuse the issue. Bruce has fallen into serious sin and has serious mental disorder and the zeitgeist today is feeding his disorder. Doesn’t anyone love him enough to help him? Unfortunately in california they might be arrested if they did. What a terrible delimma for him. Transsexuals have an unusually high suicide rate after they undergo surgical alteration which compounds rather than fixes the problem. The rate is almost 1 in 2 will choose suicide. Supporting this with such terrible odds seems incredibly hateful towards a fellow…
J Matt Barber perhaps said it best: “the “T” in “LGBT” also stands for “tyranny.”
Yet in today’s terminally ill America, it’s in vogue, and actually legal, for abusive adults, like lesbian “mommies” Pauline Moreno and Debra Lobel, to pump their 11-year-old son Thomas full of dangerous hormone-blocking drugs so that he can soon be sterilized and have his penis and testicles cut off. He wants to become “Tammy,” you see.
(Think the fact that Tommy is being raised by two lesbians and has been intentionally deprived of his father has anything to do with his sexual confusion?)”
Anonymous, I happen to be trained in genetics, and I’m pretty sure you don’t even have any way of knowing whether Jenner has a ‘chromosomal” defect. The fact is that we don’t know what the genetics or epigenetics are of Jenner or of any other transgender person. Please, it is not helpful for amateurs and second guessers to pretend to know what they are talking about, and then opine about sin….and there is no sin that you can point to anyhow. Take care of yourself and your own household please.
YFC you would do well to follow your own advice. May the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob bring Bruce Jenner to full knowledge of himself and heal him.
And YFC it may be true that genetics play a role in mental disorders but that doesn’t mean one shouldn’t help those with mental disorders like Bruce. Where is your love and compassion that you would simply support someone continuing in delusion? If you are a geneticist, as you claim, I wonder how you support this when the casualty rate is so high. Frankly, if Bruce had a genetics card to play I bet he would. A little common sense please and save me from the pandering.
The whole article is well worth the read:
SURGICAL SEX
By Dr. Paul McHugh https://www.firstthings.com/article/2004/11/surgical-sex
Male hormones sexualize the brain and the mind. Sexual dysphoria—a sense of disquiet in one’s sexual role—naturally occurs amongst those rare males who are raised as females in an effort to correct an infantile genital structural problem.
A seemingly similar disquiet can be socially induced in apparently constitutionally normal males, in association with (and presumably prompted by) serious behavioral aberrations, amongst which are conflicted homosexual orientations and the remarkable male deviation now called autogynephilia.