The following comes from an Oct. 28 story on LifeSiteNews by Matt Barber.
What would you call a 33-year-old man who both had and axiomatically acted upon a deviant sexual appetite for underage, drug-addicted, runaway boys? (No, not Jerry Sandusky.)
What would you call a man of whom, as regards sexual preference, his own friend and biographer confessed, “Harvey always had a penchant for young waifs with substance abuse problems”?
In a recent interview with OneNewsNow.com, I called this man “demonstrably, categorically an evil man based on his [statutory] rape of teenage boys.”
But you can call him Harvey Milk.
Harvey Milk’s only claim to fame is that he was the first openly homosexual candidate to be elected to public office (San Francisco city commissioner). His chief cause was to do away with the Judeo-Christian sexual ethic. In 1978 Milk was murdered over a non-related political dispute by fellow Democrat Dan White.
And a “progressive” martyr was born.
Merriam Webster defines “pederast” as “one who practices anal intercourse especially with a boy.” It defines “statutory rape” as “the crime of having sex with someone who is younger than an age that is specified by law.”
Harvey Milk was both a pederast and, by extension, a statutory rapist. After I publicly addressed this objective reality in the above-mentioned interview, the liberal blogosphere reacted in, shall we say, an informatively defensive manner.
A Huffington Post headline screamed: “Harvey Milk Was An ‘Evil Man’ Who Raped Teenage Boys, Unworthy of Postage Stamp: Matt Barber.”
The always-amusing Right Wing Watch blog breathlessly posted my comments with the header: “Barber: ‘Harvey Milk Was Demonstrably, Categorically an Evil Man.’”
And so on.
Here’s what’s especially telling about their reaction. Not one of the dozen-or-more publications that reported on my comments even challenged their veracity. Not one attempted to refute or deny that Harvey Milk was, in fact, a pederast and a sexual predator.
That’s because they can’t.
One of Milk’s victims was a 16-year-old runaway from Maryland named Jack Galen McKinley. As previously mentioned, Milk had a soft spot in his, um, heart for teenage runaways. Motivated by an apparent quid pro quo of prurience, Milk plucked McKinley from the street.
Randy Shilts was a San Francisco Chronicle reporter and close friend to Harvey Milk. Though Shilts died of AIDS in 1994, he remains, even today, one of the most beloved journalists in the “LGBT” community.
Shilts was also Harvey Milk’s biographer. In his glowing book The Mayor of Castro Street, he wrote of Milk’s “relationship” with the McKinley boy: ” … Sixteen-year-old McKinley was looking for some kind of father figure. … At 33, Milk was launching a new life, though he could hardly have imagined the unlikely direction toward which his new lover would pull him.”
In a sane world, of course, the only direction his “new lover” should have pulled him was toward San Quentin. But, alas, today’s America – a burgeoning relativist land of make-believe – is anything but sane.
Randy Thomasson, child advocate and founder of SaveCalifornia.com, is one of the nation’s foremost experts on Harvey Milk. Of the Shilts biography, Thomasson notes, “Explaining Milk’s many flings and affairs with teenagers and young men, Randy Shilts writes how Milk told one ‘lover’ why it was OK for him to also have multiple relationships simultaneously: ‘As homosexuals, we can’t depend on the heterosexual model. … We grow up with the heterosexual model, but we don’t have to follow it. We should be developing our own lifestyle. There’s no reason why you can’t love more than one person at a time….’”
To read the entire posting, click here.
Yes, I know the demons in some of you will resist you reading through this whole post and make your very very angry (like Marvin the Martian) .
They do not want you to be free from their bondage. But read it for your own good. .
.
Here is an observation. God loved purity so much, that he created it into the nature of man. In the Garden of Eden, people did not realize they were naked. Not only that, the rest of creation goes about its business without the reality of their nakedness.
This reality of man’s original nature indicates an Angelic purity, free of lust from observing other peoples nakedness. If then God so loved purity as to be purity itself, how offended does he get when all sorts of dysfunctional behaviors are sold as originating from his creation?
The problem with the shash movement and the shashters that are proponents of it is three fold.
1. They refuse to purge of themselves this desire, this temptation to sin against nature
2. They celebrate and glorify in the public space it this demented and diabolical desires even to the point of engaging and participating in the deplorable acts against themselves nature and God.
3. Worse of all they demand under the threat and sometimes through persecution that the body of Christ not only approve of their sins against purity but moreover proceed to bless it as good.
God so loves Purity that even though the Devil falsely accused Jesus of all sorts of deplorable acts, he dared not accuse him of impurity for this is a sin so offensive to God, even Lucifer himself knows better than to accuse Christ of it.
Good post. God bless you BK
O good lord. Gay people are hardly the evil ones you make us out to be. Please stop spewing this nonsense that homosexuality is so bad that even the devil is offended by it. Pure utter nonsense, made up out of whole cloth by homophobes. Pure and simple.
“Saint Catherine of Siena, a religious mystic of the 14th century, relays words of
Our Lord Jesus Christ about the vice against nature, which contaminated part of the clergy in her time. Referring to sacred ministers, He says: “They not only fail from resisting this frailty but do even worse as they commit the cursed sin against nature. Like the blind and stupid, having dimmed the light of their understanding, they do not recognize the disease and misery in which they find themselves. For this not only causes Me nausea, but displeases even the demons themselves, whom these miserable creatures have chosen as their lords. For Me, this sin against nature is so abominable that, for it alone, five cities were submersed, by virtue of the judgment of My Divine Justice, which could no longer bear them. . . . It is disagreeable to the demons, not because evil displeases them and they find pleasure in good, but because their nature is angelic and thus is repulsed upon seeing such an enormous sin being committed. It is true that it is the demon who hits the sinner with the poisoned arrow of lust, but when a man carries out such a sinful act, the demon leaves.”
Thank you Catherine for this because even though many have lost the good sense of how serious these sins are, they are dismissing that it is truly abominable. Saints have always warned us about those sins. They even go as far as saying that it is truly a hard sin to leave….and many souls refuse to change. Especially now with the sin being so desensitized. There is the fact that there are homosexuals who defy God and continue to do so very passionately. Because those actions have already been judged by our Lord, we must be concerned for those individuals and also may have to protect ourselves from them as well. When it comes to our salvation, we should be angered with righteous anger from our Lord, we should guard well our soul and of the innocent as well.
Militant Homosexuals are driven by their own disorder. Its hard for any normal person to imagine that there is a great evil and we sometimes can’t comprehend why good people have fallen so deeply but the truth of the matter is that there is a great enemy out there who wants to destroy souls, wants to defy and that is that ugly pride that many fall trap to, some deeper than others. Jealousy and envy are dangerous emotions, the Jealous person wants what others have but the person who envies hates even more which usually leads that person to hurt or destroy another.
YFC, why do you consistently refuse to differentiate between someone who has a “same sex attraction” and someone who engages in “sins against nature”?
As for the word “homophobia”, it first appeared in print in the year 1969. It did not make it into the dictionary until 1994. YFC, you accuse posters here of being “homophobic”. Now let’s think about this for a moment. The word “homophobic” is problematic in-and-of-itself. As the word “homo” is the root word for “Man” or “Human” wouldn’t it mean that a “homophobe” would be afraid of all humans? But even if we accept your definition of “homophobia” your labeling of many CCD posters as having this “condition” is still illogical. If someone has an irrational fear i.e. phobia of spiders, they not only do not want to be near a spider, but they cannot even stand hearing about spiders. If someone has a phobia of large crowds they avoid large crowds. If someone has a phobia of small, confined spaces, they avoid small places. So wouldn’t it reason that if someone had an irrational “fear” of a person who had a same sex attraction they would avoid conversing with that person or reading articles about such persons? YFC, please re-consider how you are labeling CCD posters. I expect far better from a professor of higher learning.
Tracy I have absolutely no problem whatsoever labeling a poster as a homophobe who says that homosexuality is so bad that it was beneath the devil to accuse Jesus of it. Or those who claim that all the evils of the world stem from homosexuality. These kinds of ridiculous over the top statements are clearly irrational and based in fear. Please note that I do not use it for those who uphold Church teaching in regard to homosexuality. These statements are clearly in violation of CCC.
YFC you use the bogus term ‘homophobe’ when someone disagrees with you.
YFC, once more, why do you consistently refuse to differentiate between someone who has a “same sex attraction” and someone who engages in “sins against nature”? Secondly, why do you, an “educated” person once again use a nonsensical word like “homophobe” to describe anyone? Thirdly, can you tell me which poster or posters on this page have said that “homosexuality is so bad that it was beneath the devil to accuse Jesus of it”?
“Homo” in homosexual, homophobe, homogeneous, etc is from the Greek root ‘homos’ meaning “one and the same”, not the Latin “homo” meaning “man”.
YFC – Sodomy is a Mortal Sin.
We must never tolerate mortal sins.
CCC: “2396 Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity are masturbation, fornication, pornography, and homosexual practices.”
CCC: “1868 Sin is a personal act. Moreover, we have a responsibility for the sins committed by others when we cooperate in them:
– by participating directly and voluntarily in them;
– by ordering, advising, praising, or approving them;
– by not disclosing or not hindering them when we have an obligation to do so;
– by protecting evil-doers.”
Dear Maddy – Harvey Milk is dead. He is no longer sinning, and therefore I cannot possibly be supporting his sins, whatever they are.
No, Harvey Milk is now paying for whatever sins he committed during his life as shall we all.
Maddy’s post is about you , not Mr. Milk. May his soul rest in peace.
Dear Chinua and Mr. Maddy, if the post is about me, then how do you know if I commit this sin? Is not the speculation about another’s sinfulness, without evidence, a sin in and of itself? Why is it that only gay people are presumed to commit sin. Are you yourself blameless of sin? Or are you just more horrified by the sins of others than you are of your own sin?
Do not put words in my mouth. There is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between being tempted and giving in to temptation. The Devil is the father of lies. He loves it everytime anyone engages in Sexual sin. It’s true though that he did not accuse our Lord of impurity. If he is afraid of accusing our Lord of this sin, why would you want to engage in it or even demand that he through his Church endorse its being committed?
This is an opportunity for you to denounce this sin.
Where does it say, except for you post, that the devil is “afraid” of accusing our Lord of anything? Where? except for the post which you made up completely to justify your own view of gay people.
I’m praying for you.
Pleased your not acting on your sexuality otherwise You Would Be offending God!
Please seek treatment!!
Contact ( courage ) a great Catholic resource for Catholics with same sex attractions.
Your Fellow Catholic
Can you give a single coherent reason why as a baptized Catholic you think that this sin, this temptation is worthy of celebrating?
Perhaps you could tell us why people must know you suffer this particular sin? Why is it a temptation defines who you are?
What I see of my fellow African’s post above is an explanation as to why impurity is so offensive to God as the Church has always taught. I also see very beautiful references to Scripture and Traditions. Further, there is a reference to what is first and foremost a battle for your soul, of which, whether you like it or not are a participant.
Do you join the enemy forces, their temptations or do you denounce them?
Yes indeed, impurity is a sin that is most offensive to God. That is why our Lady bears the titles “Mother Most Pure” & “Queen of Virgins”
Are we not to imitate our Lady?
Chinua Okwonkwo
Please tell me how you know what sins I commit? I think you and your fellow African are guilty of presumption.
I would also ask you where have I EVER indicated that sin is worthy of celebration. NOWHERE You won’t find it because it doesn’t exist.
Your Fellow Catholic
Carrying in public this impure identity is sinful. Letting a temptation define who you are is sinful.
Demanding that people recognize your particular temptations as part of your identity and this persona of unnatural attraction as something worthy of respect and recognition is sinful.
Let go of your sinful identity.
out of whole cloth? Um- you may not agree with it , but it is all through the bible and other religious texts,
Bwangi Kilonzo, Thank you! Your post is truly a charitable act!
” The more a person loves God, the more reason he has to hope in Him. This hope produces in the Saints an unutterable peace, which they preserve even in adversity, because as they love God, and know how beautiful He is to those who love Him, they place all their confidence and find all their repose in Him alone.”- St Alphonsus Liguori
In the Mystical City of God of Mary of Agreda, the Blessed Mother tells Blessed Mary of Agreda, that, even though She could have commanded the Angels assigned to Her to stop the Crucifixion, She refrained from doing so, but when a sodomite tried to molest the suffering Son of God, She drew the line, and ordered the Angels to throw that man through the air against a wall. He bounced of that wall and the gates of Hell opened for him and he fell from the wall into the Eternal damnation that all who are, support, and promote this so called lifestyle can expect as well unless they repent. YOU CANNOT SAY YOU HAVE NOT BEEN WARNED!
May God have mercy on an amoral America,
Viva Cristo Rey!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher, Founding Director,
Concerned Roman Catholics of America, Inc.
Thank you Kenneth,
Every Christian should have a phobia for sins. Especially Sins aganist purity. The virtue of purity is the one that God loves Most. Ask yourself why does our Lady bear the Title Queen of Virgins?
Harvey Milk was a very flawed and disordered person. Political correctness has elevated this pervert into the sodomite pantheon. Why the postal service would honor his memory is incomprehensible. There no doubt exists a lavender lobby that makes heroes out of despicable human beings. No decent citizen should ever buy this stamp.
Promoting this kind of child exploitation is part of the “Progressive” agenda.
In China they made postage stamps with Mao’s picture on them. In the Soviet Union there were stamps with Stalin’s image. In Nazi Germany the stamps had Hitler portrayed. We are becoming just as depraved, if not more, than these countries who were in league with Satan by having this horrible individual imprinted on the stamp, and memorialized. And people wonder why the United States Postal Service looses money, while Fed Ex and UPS are profitable! May God have mercy on us!
I agree Father, May God have mercy on us all. We appreciate you and thank you so much for your prayers. We pray for you too especially since you are a voice of reason here….thank you for caring enough to instruct us. God bless you.
All friends of Fr. Karl,
Pray for him because he is orthodox in his preaching, he has no real place to call home. Pray that a true Bishop will see what a gem he would have in Fr. Karl and take him in under his wings.
When I go to the Shrine of Our Lady of Good help on the Sunday after Thanksgiving, I will place him on the altar there.
When Our Lady told Fr. Gobbi that Her priest would suffer much, I am sure She had Fr. Karl in mind.
May God have mercy on an amoral America,
Viva Cristo Rey!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher, Founding Director,
Concerned Roman Catholics of America, Inc.
Thanks for the clarity, Fr. Karl. We all need to read the signs of the times for what they are instead of trying to put a good spin on that which is – let’s face it – evil.
That said, the fact that you and others are coherent enough to actually realize the need to ask for God’s mercy, is MERCY. So thank you. And thank God for the chastisement that is upon us, for with chastisement and suffrage comes the fruit that nourishes.
Yes, and this same government is going to run our healthcare???
Father,
UPS is very supportive of the Lavender Lobby, they even helped in the destruction of the Boy Scouts of America!
I think Fed Ex is still fairly clean.
May God have mercy on an amoral America,
Viva Cristo Rey!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher, Founding Director,
Concerned Roman Catholics of America, Inc.
Why don’t you check HRC’s Corporate Equality Index and find out how UPS compares to FedEx ?
FedEx and UPS are profitable because they must respond to market forces (i.e., serve their fellow man) or die, unlike the USPS which, as a government bureau, has what Ronald Reagan called, “the nearest thing to eternal life we’ll ever see on this earth.” PS: And I’m relieved that no one has objected to Fr. Karl using the term “profitable” as a good thing–so far.
Archbishop Fulton Sheen on Fanaticism:
FANATICISM is born when all these three are put together: the loss of reason and sense of values, the rallying around a leader who satisfies emotions, and the enthronement of mediocrity in the masses.
On the lower levels, fanaticism wants to bet, instead of appealing to objective standards. On the higher levels, it wants to persecute instead of plead. The fanatics never think of ideas that have to be answered by logic: they only think of the persons who hold contrary ideas, as something to be overthrown and put out of the way. Every fanatic is the enemy of truth because he is the enemy of ideas, the foe of logic. The man who believes in truth will die for it, but he will never hate those who oppose Him. Rather, he will plead for those who hate Him, saying, “Father, forgive them for they know not what they do.”
Bishop Fulton Sheen Writes – July 16, 1955
Abeca thank you for this. Tragically we see wide representation in many of our Professors in institutions of higher learning who posses Archbishop Sheen’s three qualities for the making of a fanatic. On an even more somber note, how many of our religious leaders and educators of today also now posses those three qualities?
Your welcome Tracy. Yes Tracy it is a tragedy. One that tears down the human spirit. I keep praying for patience. I understand what you mean about some of our religious leaders. What also helps me is this well known prayer and we can perfect with the lives of the saints:
< The Serenity Prayer<
God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.
Living one day at a time;
Enjoying one moment at a time;
Accepting hardships as the pathway to peace;
Taking, as He did, this sinful world
as it is, not as I would have it;
Trusting that He will make all things right
if I surrender to His Will;
That I may be reasonably happy in this life
and supremely happy with Him
Forever in the next.
Amen.
My local newspaper printed the following letter which I sent in:
To the Editor:
As someone who detests the killing of unborn babies, I detest the killing of the homosexual Harvey Milk. As a Catholic, I agree with Pope Francis that we should not judge a homosexual. In reaching out to everyone, Pope Francis stated one part of our teaching, but left unsaid another part, homosexual acts are immoral.
Promoting homosexual unions promotes homosexual acts. Far from being the medicine which heals the world, homosexuality is the poison which is destroying the world. Remember Sodom and Gomorrah.
This being All Souls Day may the Lord have mercy upon the soul of Mr. Milk! Thank God they did not name a school after him!!
Thomas Edward Miles, you have finally written something that makes some sense. Bedsides encouraging young people to live life styles that literally destroyed their very bodies, Harvey Milk accepted help for his candidacy and union from the notorious, promiscuous bi sexual, the “Reverend” Jim Jones, whom Milk knew was dangerous but accepted his assistence anyway — the very same Jim Jones who had all those people murdered at Jonestown. Yes, we should pray for him if it will do any good now, which I think is kind of doubtful unless there were signs he was repentant in the end. Hell is forever, but purgatory is until the person is totally purified and Milk certainly has a lot for which to answer to God, and a lot of purifying to go through if he was even repentant at all. Ones conscience can be killed to the point where one commits the unpardonable sin and there is no hope. It is all up to the person. Beware!
The above Anonymous post at 8:58 pm, Nov. 2, was mine.
By the way, I did pray for the soul of Harvey Milk at Mass this afternoon, but I will never make a hero out of him. I think we should pray for the soul of Dan White, also. God only knows the turmoil he was going through if he knew a lot about what was happening. There is more than one way to murder people. One can murder souls and not just bodies. Nevertheless, we should not make ourselves judge, jury and executioner of anyone. We should always pray to God, “Lead us not into temptation,” so there is a way out.
Remember when collecting stamps was an interesting and innocent hobby fathers could share with children while teaching them about history and the world around them in a way that made it real for the youngster? Adults of the future can teach children that this horrendous decision was enacted during the presidency of Barack Hussein Obama, when evil became good.
Maryanne Leonard, I remember when the word “gay” was a joyful, interesting and innocent word. Now I never use the word. I used to use the phrase, “They had a gay old time.” I would not dare use that sentence to describe anything anymore and still catch myself and stop when I go to use it. A word once so innocent has been so abused.
Anne T. now that the Homosexual Activist have successfully altered the definition of the word “gay” they are now working full time to alter the definition of the word “marriage”. Let’s do everything in our power to make sure that they are defeated in this demonic effort. Just as now you would never dare call yourself gay, the day may come when no one but a Homosexual Activist would dare call themselves “married”.
Let no one be fooled, the Homosexual Activist are out to destroy Marriage, not gain “equal rights”.
Whatever his failings, Harvey Milk did not deserve to be shot to death in city hall by a disturbed ex supervisor holding a grudge about his resignation from the SF County Board of Supervisors. The ex politico, Dan White, served seven years in prison and committed suicide about a year after his release. There are no winners in this tragedy, and the US postage stamp merely recognizes Milk’s original election to the SF Board, not his personal failings. Milk is not around to answer questions about his past behavior, but had he lived up to this point his image would definitely be taking a pasting. Notice there is no postage stamp for murdered mayor George Moscone; the convention center was named after him, though. The Center will last longer than the postage stamp, that will fade into history fairly quickly.
so called “good cause”,
His postage stamp will fade into history even quicker if good persons fail to buy it or even use it.
May God have mercy on an amoral America,
Viva Cristo Rey!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher, Founding Director,
Concerned Roman Catholics of America, Inc.
There was a push this year to rename SFO after Harvey Milk, which didn’t go anywhere. Though it looks like an undetermined terminal will bear his name, and the international terminal will go to Dianne Feinstein.
https://blog.sfgate.com/matierandross/2013/05/07/harvey-milk-to-be-honored-with-terminal-not-entire-airport/
A Prayer for Deliverance From an Unprovided Death
“Hear us, O God of our salvation! and issue not the decree for the completion of our days before Thou forgivest us our sins; and because penance avails not in hell, and there is no room there for amendment, therefore do we humbly pray and beseech Thee here on earth, that, giving us time to pray for pardon, Thou wouldst grant us also forgiveness of our sins. Through Christ our Lord. Amen.”
And don’t forget Milk’s unwavering support of Jim Jones, who has the distinction of killing more Black people than the KKK.
Please! No more excuses! Had Harvey Milk been an ordinary homosexual man, perhaps the reaction to his image being put on a stamp would not have been so vociferous. Harvey Milk was far worse than that, he was a pederast, a sexual predator. He was the worst of the worst. No excuses!
Disgusting actions. Homosexual behavior is a form of grievous offensive sin to God. I don’t mind people not believing me; so they should not take my word for it; but rather take God’s word of truth for it! Read St Paul’s epistle to the Romans Chapter 1 versus 26 through 32 in a truly accurate Roman Catholic Holy Bible, a Douay-Rheims.
“Your Fellow Catholic”: You are correct, and wrong. Homosexual people are not inherently evil and are as worthy of God’s love and Christ’s redemption as are any of us. And, homosexual persons that engage in homosexual sex have the same right to the saving grace of confession and absolution as do any of us. Christ freely forgave the woman found committing adultery, a capital offense (she did not ask for forgiveness, although seemed to recognize his power by addressing him as “Lord”): “Then Jesus lifting up himself, said to her: Woman, where are they that accused thee? Hath no man condemned thee?//Who said: No man, Lord. And Jesus said: Neither will I condemn thee. Go, and now sin no more.” (John 8:10-11, DRV) But there is no argument that homosexual sex, each time, and notwithstanding the reason for its commission, is an act of moral outrage against God, and a mortal sin. What none of us know is whether God will forgive these sins at death, if no act of remorse or contrition is made. Harvey Milk was a depraved person, praying on the weak and lost. It is a shame that few bothered to stand up against him. He is no hero, and can never by a source of admiration. Pray for him, certainly, but do not use his life as an example.
Repentance, restitution as appopriate, and trying to sin no more, – are requirements for God’s mercy.
There is no love of God when we spit in His face by our own bad actions.
We must all strive to do God’s will, not our own will.
St. Christopher.
They will not listen to you.
I agree with St. Christopher…God bless you.
When the Chastisement comes as it must, all monuments, stamps, and anything else that honors this sin that cries out to God for vengeance, will no long exists.
May God have mercy on an amoral America,
Viva Cristo Rey!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher, Founding Director,
Concerned Roman Catholics of America, Inc.
@ St Christopher.
There are enough excerpts in the Bible and in the Gospel which are condemning the homosexual acts, that I truly don’t understand those who try to imagine them acceptable in the eyes of God.
Certainly those who sin seriously in engaging themselves in homosexual intercourses are worthy of their redemption through the blood, the sufferings and the death of Our Lord, SO FAR AS THEY REPENT of their evil acts.
But those who will stay stubbornly and proudly in that horrible sin with no remorse until the last second of their lives will end into Hell. The RCC’s catechism teaches that there is no “second chance” for them.
I don’t judge them, since I have no power to send anyone into Hell, only God can do it. I only read what the Scripture says, with fear and tremblings.
For those who disagree, there is still an option: To make the Bible censored by the law.
Yes Anony you are correct on what you replied to St. Christopher and I agree with you both. Our faith has always warned us against sodomy.
St. John Chrysostom : “The worst of it is that such an abomination is committed boldly and that the monstrosity becomes the law. Nobody nowadays fears, nobody blushes. They boast and they laugh at these actions. The people who abstain appear stupid and they who condemn are regarded as fools. If they appear to be the weaker ones they are crushed with blows. If they are stronger, people laugh, people mock them and make many jokes about them. They have no redress in tribunals or in law.” (…) “I have heard also many men who are surprised that up to the present a new shower of fire has not fallen on us and that the chastisement of Sodom has not fallen again on our town which is even more deserving of punishment since it did not learn from the evils of the Sodomites. Although after two thousand years this place accursed and overwhelmed which was Sodom cries to the whole world by its appearance more eloquently than any one voice could, not to dare to commit such heinous offences, our fellow citizens have committed these offences not with less effrontery but quite on the contrary they show themselves more daring and unashamed as if they were determined to do battle with God and that they wish to prove that they wish to add to their crimes, in proportion as the threats become more terrible. How is it that according as the crimes of Sodom renew themselves the chastisement of Sodom is not also renewed? Ah, the reason is that a more terrible fire waits them and that a chastisement is reserved for them which will have no end.” (Against the opponents of Monastic Life, III.8)
@ St Christopher.
There are enough excerpts in the Bible and in the Gospel which are condemning the homosexual acts, that I truly don’t understand those who try to imagine them acceptable in the eyes of God.
Certainly those who sin seriously in engaging themselves in homosexual intercourses are worthy of their redemption through the blood, the sufferings and the death of Our Lord, SO FAR AS THEY REPENT of their evil acts.
But those who will stay stubbornly and proudly in that horrible sin with no remorse until the last second of their lives will end into Hell. The RCC’s catechism teaches that there is no “second chance” for them.
I don’t judge them, since I have no power to send anyone into Hell, only God can do it. I only read what the Scripture says, with fear and tremblings.
For those who disagree, there is still an option: To make the Bible censored by the law.
Leviticus 20:13: “If any one lie with a man as with a woman, both have committed an abomination, let them be put to death: their blood be upon them”.
I Corinthians VI, 9-10: “Know you not that the unjust shall not possess the kingdom of God? Do not err: Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers. Nor the effeminate, nor liars with mankind, (…) shall possess the kingdom of God”. See Genesis 19:12-29. Consequently, St. Augustine says (1) “that of all these – namely the sins belonging to lust – that which is against nature is the worst,” is ”in itself a mortal sin,” (2) a sin specifically distinct (3) from all other sins.
There are many scripture and even quotes from our saints considering homosexual lifestyles an abomination.
Obviously this is a bow to the homosexual lobby. Harvey Milk was in office less than a year before he was killed, and did not have the time to distinguish himself politically. He was also not the prime target of his killer, but happened to find himself in the wrong place at the wrong time when the shooting began (hence, you can’t make him a “martyr”). He is a hero to the homosexual lobby because he is the first politician in the country to publicly acknowledge that he was a homosexual. He did engage in shameful personal behavior; it has been established that he had an attraction to younger men, including minors (although this is typical in the homosexual lifestyle). The sad part is not only that an unremarkable, immoral man is being honored, but that an established institution in the U.S. government is doing it.
“he had an attraction to younger men, including minors (although this is typical in the homosexual lifestyle)” No, not typical of the average homosexual.
Carol: I agree with you that he was not yet in office long enough to have made a serious impact, though I think of him every time I see owners pick up their dog’s messes. He was much more known for all the time he spent losing elections.
But you are quite incorrect when you say he was not the target, he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Dan White knew exactly who’s office he door he opened, and “when the shooting started” he knew Harvey would be at the other side of the barrel.
YFC, The homosexual lifestyle is EVIL to the core, and like any orthodox Catholic priest not infected by modern liberalism would tell you, if in, say, sacramental confession, “if you persist in this homosexual activist lifestyle, you WILL end up in the fires of hell”. Too harsh for you, Fellow Catholic? Sorry, but it’s been the constant teaching of the Catholic Church for over 2,000 years. APPLY TO NARTH OR ‘COURAGE’ AND CHANGE YOUR LIFESTYLE, BECAUSE IT CAN BE DONE. Many hundreds of those just like you have healed and cured themselves of S.S.A., so YOU can do it too. May God bless you richly and I’ll say prayers for you today that you make the change to normal heterosexuality. MARKRITE
Markrite, 1) There is no such thing as the “homosexual lifestyle” anymore than there is a “heterosexual lifestyle”. 2) Homosexuality and being gay is not evil, at least not according to official teachings of the Church. 3) Any widespread success NARTH has had in delivering people from being gay is a complete fabrication and fraud. If it were not, the techniques would have been scrutinized in peer reviewed journals, and his technique imitated all over the world. 4) Courage’s mission is not to remove homosexuality from the person but to encourage and support celibate living for gay people.
This is erroneous information you are putting out there. The homosexual orientation is inclined towards a moral evil; the precise language that the Church uses is that it is an inclination that is “disordered” meaning it is not inclined towards the good of sexual relations. Saying that is is “not evil” is way off the mark of what the Church is teaching.
Sorry jon, you are incorrect. There are many church documents that explicitly state that in and of itself, homosexuality is morally neutral and not sinful.
NO YFC, You are incorrect. Homosexuality is not a mere “neutral” moral category. The Church is plain in saying that homosexuality as an orientation is “disordered” toward evil. NOW how can that be morally neutral. YFC, why don’t you listen with openness to what the Church is saying for a change (which is what other vociferous folks have been telling you all along)? Which is that the homosexual nature is an extrusion from the sin (specifically from the sin from the Fall of Adam and Eve) which we still experience as concupiscence.
Your saying that the Church doesn’t say homosexuality is not a sin is a straw man. NOBODY least of all me has said that. The Church is clear that homosexuality is not a sin. But the Church is clear that it is disordered towards evil. You are lurching towards error however by saying it is “neutral” morally. IT IS NOT!
YFC, Your posts here are fascinating. You seem to be very faithful and educated about canonical issues, yet engage in endless debate with people who occupy the most conservative and traditionalist edges of Catholicism… whose responses can only range between ontological condemnation and grudging acceptance if you live a life of silent, total repression. They’ve probably never known a gay person, and will never accept you. What’s the point?
There is no way to win an argument where the rules of the game are so rigged against you. The Catechism is explicit. Official Church position is probably not going to change in your lifetime. Your opponents in debate need only to quote Canon law, and if that eventually modernizes in any way, the people here will see that as evil in itself. There are lots of liberal Catholics (Stephen Colbert, for instance) who roll their eyes at official Church position on sexual morality, but the people here don’t consider them real Catholics… Anyway. I appreciate your comments.
Sebastian, what is “so fascinating” about YFC’s posts? Does it amuse you that he refuses to acknowledge the difference between someone who has a SSA and someone who engages in sins against nature? Also, I can’t speak for any other posters here, but you are very wrong about your assumption of me. I have had numerous (well over 50 that I know of) close relationships with homosexuals for over 30 years now, most of these were actively living in sin. While I have worked well with most of them and considered some of them friends, I have never compromised God’s position that homosexual sex is a sin against God and nature.
Sebastian, thank you I appreciate your comments. My intention in posting here is not to change church doctrine, nor is it to convince commenters or even readers here that Church doctrine is wrong. My purposes here are threefold: 1) To get “faithful” catholics, as they like to call themselves, to realize that official Church doctrine speaks very compassionately towards gay people. It speaks of respect, and condemns unjust discrimination and violence against gay people. Most posters here do not accept this portion of Church doctrine, so if I can keep that portion in their minds, maybe I can actually bring THEM in line with Church doctrine. 2) I am a real, genuine gay Catholic. In fact, I chose Catholicism as an out gay adult man. I have a close relationship with our Lord. And I am willing to write openly about both aspects of my life. I am willing to bet that few of the posters know people like me. And though there aren’t many as outspoken as me, we share the pew every sunday with these posters. It’s about time we exchange a true sign of peace. and 3) Most importantly, I write to let folks still struggling with their sexual and spiritual identities that there is hope. There is mercy. There is compassion. There is love. And since few other posters share that here, I must.
YFC – homosexual ACTS are always sinful. In fact they are mortal sins.
“Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition” (CCC): “2396 Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity are masturbation, fornication, pornography, and homosexual practices.”
Sebastien, wrong! Most of us have known many homosexuals and lesbians during our lifetimes. There was a family close to me that had four homosexuals reportedly in the family. One molested his own nephew when he was about sixteen when the teen’s mother left him under the uncle’s care. I suspect the uncle was also molested by an older uncle in the family as the older uncle was allowed to sleep in the boy’s room, along with another brother, when he visited — something that was common back then. And you do not have to remind me that not all homosexuals molest — some don’t but some do, and in that family I suspect it had nothing to do with genes but introduction into the lifestyle by seduction. I know the nephew was heterosexual since he tried before his molestation by his uncle to seduce a younger female cousin in the family — and so it goes in many families where children are not taught strong moral values and proper sexuality taught. Others come from good families but still choose to misuse their bodies, or were molested by outsiders.
Tracy, what I find fascinating is the somewhat ambivalent position YFC takes, in both defending himself, and also seeking to find a resolution with dogma and its adherents that are clearly unwelcoming. That is not an easy path to take. I admire the resolve to craft such articulate and patient responses and try to provide a positive archetype for a gay Catholic.
It’s much easier to either reject the Church wholesale, or adopt an attitude of indifference or dismissiveness toward the aspects of doctrine that can be seen as outdated social mores… an attitude most people I know who were raised Catholic do… But YFC doesn’t.
Anne: If your opinion of gay people is informed wholly by pariahs, child molesters, and disturbed people acting out, I’d say that their sexual orientation is incidental. The perpetrators of sexual abuse are almost always men, and overwhelmingly victimize girls. Does that affect your opinion of heterosexuals?
Sabastien, quite simply put, there are more homosexual molestatations per homosexuals than there are heterosexual molestations per heterosexuals, since there are far more people practicing heterosexual behavior. Nevertheless, in answer to your question, yes it does affect my opinion of heterosexuals. My grandparents who raised me were very protective and taught me not to do certain things around men such as sit on their laps. Therefore I was never molested, except for an attempt by a stranger which was thwarted by a properly taught young boy whose wisdom saved me from that situation.
YFC, Let me correct you: 1) Albeit the Church does indeed speak compassionately about those struggling with same-sex attraction, the Church nonetheless DOES NOT approve the homosexual act or any homosexual union or relationship.
2) The true sign of peace can only come when all people have accepted the Kingdom of God, the Rule of God, not YOUR rules, not your preferences, not YOUR morality: but God’s. You may “feel” close to Jesus, but are you indeed so? Why don’t you remind yourself what the Church enjoins homosexuals to do in order to carry the Cross of Jesus in their lives? I bet you that if you do that, you will feel much closer to Jesus, without setting up your homosexuality as a “god.”
3) There is indeed hope, compassion, and love for all people, including homosexuals, and that is by following Christ unreservedly, which for the homosexual means living chastely in accord with what the Church teaches as a chaste life for a single person.
You are setting up your own morality here YFC, setting up another good other than God’s!
Homosexuality is not a sin but it is objectively disordered which means it’s object is always a sin. So it is an inclination to do something that is evil. One is not guilty of sin if one has the inclination and does nothing. Acting on it is a grave sin; it is a mortal sin if one does so with full knowledge and full consent of the will. Each mortal sin needs to be confessed.
Also, Sabastien, among the young women who are molested by family members, more are raped by step fathers or the mother’s boyfriend than their own fathers, so such behavior is more common among those who are sticking their fingers in the eye of social mores in the first place.
To make my last post clearer, what I meant was that fathers who bother to marry their daughter’s mother are less likely to molest their own daughters because they have a better set of moral values. Now I do not want to discuss this any longer. I am sorry that I even got into this discussion once again because it is just apt to become a merry-go-round that just goes on and on.
That is true. Much higher rates of same sex molestation, step fathers, etc. But there are also a lot of messed up people in the world. My own mother was molested by her brother, one bad seed in a large, otherwise very well adjusted family. I had to fight off an advance from a Boy Scout leader! (who somehow was involved despite having no children of his own).
The point is, no one is defending child predators. But conflating them with gay people is unfair and simply fallacious. There are a ton of happy, prosperous, well adjusted, surprisingly boring gay people (Apple’s CEO is a good example). I’ve actually witnessed the culture change as it’s found mainstream acceptance. A lot of the seediness of Harvey Milk’s era had to do with it being underground and marginalized. Social acceptance is a good thing.
Sebastien, whether the practice of sodomy is out of the closet or not, men’s bodies just were not and are not constructed to take such abuse, and sooner or later they pay the price, and our society has to pay the medical bills for men, and even women who should know better. Lesbians also get a lot of STDs because many also fool around with men.
YFC, why have I NEVER EVER seen you write even ONE single word, in the numerous entries you have written over the many months on CCD, in which you acknowledge that homosexual sex is a sin?
yes YFC tell us and answer Tracy…..but of course homosexual activist want to make out that “gay” is saintly and that they can not sin….its that ugly reminder of how much sin has been desensitized.
Like I use to recall that saying “Who do you love more Jesus or your homosexuality” and the sad thing is, it’s never the right answer.
When decent people acknowledged their sinfulness and where ashamed there was a greater hope for their conversion but now, they have taken the shame out of the sin and have succeeded in normalizing acts against the natural law. Mankind will again see it’s destruction sooner or later….those few who remain faithful and true in Christ will unite with our Lord.
Tracy, perhaps you have missed the posts in which I acknowledge that the Church considers homosexual sex to be a sin. The Church defines what is sinful. That is not my job.
YFC, I did NOT say that I have never seen you write that you acknowledge that the “Church considers homosexual sex to be a sin”. What I asked you is why have I never ever once seen you post a single statement in which YOU acknowledge that homosexual sex is a sin?
Sebastian, what you apparently fail to understand is that there are, and have always been since the beginning of the Church, those who make it their life’s goal to destroy the Church from within. This is how much She is despised by those who abhor the Cross of Jesus Christ.
There’s really no way to argue with that kind of thinking, framing everything in terms of good/evil. I think what you’re saying is YFC is attempting to subvert and destroy the Church, simply by defending himself. I disagree. I don’t ever even see where he challenges official doctrine.
Pope Francis came in 4th on Forbes list of the most powerful people in the world this week. All the others are heads of state and billionaires. (and there was a run of 1000 years easy where he’d be a distant first). When you have an organization that powerful run by people, there’s bound to be politics, and with a community so large, diverse opinions. There may be saboteurs and cynics in the Church, but I don’t see many.
So much doctrine is concerned with asserting the authority of the Church. It’s hard not to see a governing body acting on its own behalf in a lot of that, though…
Sebastien, you don’t see where YFC ever challenges official doctrine? He has advocated that homosexuals have a right to change the definition of marriage in violation of “official” Church teaching. In addition he insists that all Catholics embrace this idea. Furthermore, he has never once acknowledged that sex outside of marriage, and without openness to procreation is a sin. He has never once acknowledged that homosexual sexual activity is a sin. Yet he wants to be seen and accepted as a “faithful” Catholic.
What am I therefore to conclude other than to assume that he is attempting to destroy the Church from within?
I suppose you’re right. I guess I don’t see any challenge to the existence or legitimacy of the official teaching, but someone who is personally at odds with it, and is trying to find a balance. We all sin, and I don’t see that as such a big deal.
I might be guilty of the same bias, as I’m very socially liberal, and still a Catholic. (so, similarly conflicted).
The word “faithful” is an interesting one. I used to think of it as meaning “having belief”, but belief is taken more or less for granted here, and the meaning is more “obedient and deferential to dogma”… Being raised Catholic, I was instilled with the value system and belief from birth, and learned dogma much later (at an age where you question everything), so maybe I see belief as more true? I’m an admittedly Bad Catholic.
Tracy, please, let’s sit down for a moment and let’s have some coffee together, ok?
There are several people who have posted here that they can ignore all that Vatican II teaches. Now, I disagree with them. But I would just point out that the authority behind Vatican II – a duly called Ecumenical Council in which all of the Bishops of the Church together exercised their teaching magisterium, is far more important a statement of Christian faith than any statement about same sex marriage. If an Ecumenical Council is not binding on the faithful, then why are a handful of statements by separated Bishops MORE binding? I don’t see you accusing those who disregard VII as attempting to destroy the Church, do I?
Sebastien, thank you for your thoughtfulness. I would encourage you to inquire of “conservatives” as to why they view the social issues the way they do. I think that you will find the majority of our positions as being of sound reason.
YFC, I’d love to sit down and have some coffee with you! Thanks for the invite! We might clear out the coffee house if we did though! I find that average people can’t stand to be around spirited debates!
As far as you accusing me of avoiding responding to the, (shall we say), Pius V Traditionalist who frequent this site, you are mostly right. I used to renounce them quite frequently. For the most part I see them as a fringe group with little actual influence in the true Church. (hold on the flood gates are about to open!). I do, however, see a HUGE assault being waged on the true Church through homosexual activism of which I consider you to be a part of. So as there is only so much time in my day for writing on this site, I choose to continue putting my limited resources toward squelching the real threat.
From the Vatican web site: “LETTER TO THE BISHOPS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH ON THE PASTORAL CARE OF HOMOSEXUAL PERSONS”
https://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19861001_homosexual-persons_en.html
.
It includes the following: ” 15. We encourage the Bishops, then, to provide pastoral care in full accord with the teaching of the Church for homosexual persons of their dioceses.
No authentic pastoral programme will include organizations in which homosexual persons associate with each other without clearly stating that homosexual activity is immoral.
A truly pastoral approach will appreciate the need for homosexual persons to avoid the near occasions of sin. “
DAVID, are you claiming that a US Postage stamp is a pastoral program of the Catholic Church?
Normally when the USPS makes a stamp of someone, it is to honor that person, so considering our present blind and corrupt government leaders who smite God at every opportunity they can, they wish to honor a sinner, a sexual predator of innocent children. Yes, false treasures of honors of the world . . . . in turn, I’d like to share with everyone this beautiful Renewal of our Roman Catholic Baptismal Vows:
Almighty and eternal God! Thou knowest all things: Thou seest the very bottom of my heart, and Thou knowest that, however sinful I have hitherto been, I am resolved, by the help of Thy grace, to love and serve Thee for the remainder of my life. And therefore, O my God, kneeling before the throne of Thy mercy, I renew, with all the sincerity of my soul the promises and vows made for me in my baptism.
I renounce Satan with my whole heart, and will henceforth have no connection with him. I renounce all the pomps of Satan, that is, all the vanities of the world, the false treasures of its riches, honors and pleasures, and all its corrupt teachings. I renounce all the works of Satan, that is, all kinds of sins.
To Thee alone, O my God, I desire to cling; Thy word will I hear and obey; for Thee alone I desire to live and die. Amen.
The New Marian Missal, Imprimatur: L. Suenens, vic. Gen. Mechliniae, die 15 Maii 1958
The Whole Fabric of our Christian Civilization has deteriorated.
If there is a heaven, Harvey is there….Dan White is not, unless the Twinkie thing still works.