The following comes from a piece written by Bishop Robert W. McElroy of San Diego published September 19 in The Valley Catholic:
Many widely circulated independent Catholic voter guides propose that the concept of intrinsic evil provides an automatic process for prioritizing the elements of the political common good in the United States.
The church teaches that certain acts are incapable of being ordered to God since in their very structure they contradict the good of the person made in God’s likeness. Such actions are termed “intrinsically evil” and are morally illicit no matter what the intention or circumstances surrounding them. Those who focus primarily on intrinsic evil make two distinct but related claims: 1) that the action of voting for candidates who seek to advance an intrinsic evil in society automatically involves the voter morally in that intrinsic evil in an illicit way; and 2) Catholic teaching demands that political opposition to intrinsically evil acts, like abortion, euthanasia and embryonic experimentation, must be given automatic priority over all other issues for the purposes of voting.
The recent statement of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, “Forming Consciences for Faithful Citizenship,” shows why this argument is simplistic and thus misleading. The bishops’ statement clearly asserts the absoluteness of the prohibitions against concrete intrinsically evil acts, emphasizing that no circumstances or intentions can justify performing or illicitly cooperating with such acts. At the same time, “Faithful Citizenship” recognizes that voting for a candidate whose policies may advance a particular intrinsic evil is not in itself an intrinsically evil act. Voting for candidates is a complex moral action in which the voter must confront an entire array of competing candidates’ positions in a single act of voting. It is crucial that in voting for a candidate who supports the advancement of an intrinsic evil, Catholic voters not have the intention of supporting that specific evil, since such an intention would involve them directly in the evil itself. But voters will often find themselves in situations where one candidate supports an intrinsically evil position, yet the alternative realistic candidates all support even graver evils in the totality of their positions.
This is particularly true in the United States today. The list of intrinsic evils specified by Catholic teaching includes not only abortion, physician-assisted suicide and embryonic experimentation but also actions that exploit workers, create or perpetuate inhuman living conditions or advance racism. It is extremely difficult, and often completely impossible, to find candidates whose policies will not advance several of these evils in American life.
Even more important, a fatal shortcoming of the category of intrinsic evil as a foundation for prioritizing the major elements of the political common good lies in the fact that while the criterion of intrinsic evil identifies specific human acts that can never be justified, it is not a measure of the relative gravity of evil in human or political acts. Some intrinsically evil acts are less gravely evil than other intrinsically evil actions. Intrinsically evil action can also be less gravely evil than other actions that do not fall under the category of intrinsic evil. For example, telling any lie is intrinsically evil, while launching a major war is not. But it would be morally obtuse to propose that telling a minor lie to constituents should count more in the calculus of voting than a candidate’s policy to go to war. It is the gravity of evil or good present in electoral choices that is primarily determinative of their objective moral character and their contribution to or detraction from the common good. Moreover, because voting is a complex moral action involving mitigating circumstances, a vote for a candidate who supports intrinsic evils often does not involve illicit cooperation in those acts. For these reasons the category of intrinsic evil cannot provide a comprehensive moral roadmap for prioritizing the elements of the common good for voting.
I am respecting bishops less and less who seem unwilling or unable to state the obvious truth that it is sinful to vote for Democrats in contemporary America because the published platform of the Democrat Party will inexorably solidify grave evils in law and threaten religious liberty. Does any bishop seriously believe that Hillary Clinton’s nominees for Supreme Court justices will advance the common good and religious liberty more than Donald Trump’s? This presidential election is primarily about the Court, whose slant for the next couple decades will be determined by the next President. Donald Trump is the only justifiable choice; no complex moral calculus needed. Lose the Court, lose the country.
Well said Brother.
Thank you for a clear response to the Bishop.
It would be instructive if Bishop McElroy were to provide an example of what he considers to be a sound moral analysis of two competing candidates; say, Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump.
How about it, Excellency? Using your guidelines, offer the faithful a sample analysis that employs what you consider to be an appropriate moral calculus by weighing the two major candidates for President. Examples are always used by good teachers to illustrate the principles they are teaching. Why no example from you?
Every similar statement about how to approach voting by every other bishop in the U.S. is similarly unhelpful. Will no bishop provide an example? Will no bishop show courage of conviction? Why leave it all so ambiguous? Better not to…
I believe the Bishop there gave a fine refutation for the position of folks like Sawyer, whose “moral calculus” is simplistic which is namely: “vote for the candidate who is not supporting an intrinsic moral evil, namely abortion.” Fine. However, notice how Sawyer is now further devolving his “moral calculus”: support Trump because of whom he “MAY” put into the Supreme Court. Folks, even your run-of-the-mill Republican president has put in dubious “conservative” Supreme Court nominees: it was the Republican Reagan who gave us Justice Kennedy who in turn gave us same-sex marriage; it was the Republican Bush who gave us Justice Roberts who gave us “affordable healthcare.”
My point is simple: Sawyer’s moral calculus…
is unreliable and overtly simplistic. My words are not an endorsement of Hiliary. Mine are a call that you people ought to learn to be more knowledgeable about the ways of the world than you are now.
Your point is idiotic, “jon,” keeping to the idiocy of B. McElroy. Make fun of people as “simplistic” all you wish, there remains a vote to be cast and a candidate to be elected. Yes, it is perfectly fine to vote for Trump as a vote against Hillary, regardless of the vagaries of who gets appointed to the Supremes. (BTW, Trump has provided a detailed listing of proposed S. Ct. nominees; looks pretty good and conservative.) (2nd BTW, only Democratic Party appointees always vote like the Party directs; kind of like Joseph Goebbels.)
Well, SChris to date neither you nor Sawyer has given a substantial refutation to the meat of McElroy’s writing here. McELroy is expounding upon the American bishops’ “Faithful Citizenship.” None of you brilliant folks has put forth a compelling reason why your regular Catholic should not adhere to it. NONE! To the complexity of the choices voters sometimes are presented, at least the bishops are providing a substantial guide. All you people give are unreliable “calculus.”
The PLATFORM of the DEMOCRATS promotes a grave intrinsic evil i.e. the slaughter of pre-born human beings.The REPUBLICAN platform opposes it.
What is clear is that you haven’t even read what the Bishop wrote. I suggest you read it because McElroy does mention about “grave intrinsic evil” such as abortion but is writing how simplistic that is. Prove that he is wrong. I am yet to hear a resounding refutation because McElroy is calling you people out here for your simplistic “calculus.” I mean, I have my own answer, but since you people are supposed to be brilliant and know-it-alls, let’s hear you.
Actually, it is you and your lefty pals that refuse to acknowledge the obvious. The welter of mind-numbing verbiage by the bishops is intended to do two things: (1) make Catholics think that it is Church policy (or even doctrine) to simply tote up all issues, as on a box score, and vote according to whomever gets a better score, and (2) permit Catholics to vote for someone who favors “abortion choice” (like the perfidious Sen. Kaine). That is it. The USCCB was largely responsible for helping to elect Obama, as it widely known. Apostates.
60 million human beings slaughtered, dismermbered, poisoned, parts sold.. And we keep voting in politicians who promote this abomination? The blood of the innocents is on our hands and the politicians we elect. This is crying out to God for revenge> May the Lord help us repent and turn away from our evil ways. May God have mercy on us.
I never answer these posts because they basically do nothing, but I am sooo tired of the….”this president gave us this justice”….The Senate of the United States gave us Kennedy etc. The Senate was controlled by the Democrats, Joe Biden, Leahy, Kennedy. Reagan was lucky to get anyone remotely an original intent justice. So Please the President nominates but the senate consents to the nomination and votes on him/her. The senate was controlled by the Democrats.
Well, tell that to Sawyer please. He is the one campaigning for Trump using the argument of whom he may select for the Court.
….better to campaign for the one who will put forward conservative justices who may be rejected than the one who will put forward liberal candidates bent on overthrowing all logic and reason, jon.
But as you do not parlay in those terms – logic and reason – I understand the nature of your post. Pure agitation and contrariness.
Forget about bishops when voting.
Does anyone have a copy of the USCCB Forming Consciences for Faithful Citizenship? I believe this is how Bishop McElroy interprets it but not the majority of Bishops in the US.
i think the good bishop has just revealed part of the US bishops’ position playbook. it sounds reasonable. but it doesn’t ring true. the ‘social conditions’ intrinsic evils cannot add to a weightier mass than the interference with life itself at beginning end and design. does he really suggest that at some point the scales tip in favor of underpaid factory workers on one end and slaughtered babies on the losing side? perhaps this is like the contraception issue, where the arguments against it seem weak but, as pope benedict xvi has said, the catholic answer is right( from his latest book, referencing his take on humanae vitae)…
Now we have it out in the open – Leftwing billionaire George Soros spent $650,000 to influence Pope Francis’ September 2015 visit to the States with a view to shifting national paradigms and priorities in the months leading up to the 2016 presidential campaign, according to a revelation made public through WikiLeaks. To read a very informative article I invite you to see http://www.conservativehq.com for 8/24/16
Compare the views of this simpering, feral, and craven little man to those of a true bishop, Bishop Olmsted of Phoenix. B. McElroy is the Vatican’s way of giving the finger to orthodox Catholics: “we know what is good for you American Catholics and we are in charge, so don’t you forget it. Oh yes, stop forming Traditional Orders of religious unless we say so — no, your bishop’s OK is no good to us — and we won’t be approving any. We have the power now. Seig Heil!!.”
Vatican Notice No. 1: Watching of “Triumph of the Will” is mandatory to all HS catechism classes. Times and dates TBD. Discussion to follow regarding Thomas Aquinas and Martin Luther: Who is the REAL Heretic??
Bishop, you excommunicated yourself? You split hairs & fail to instruct God’s people in God’s royal commands? Thou shall not kill (especially the innocent unborn humans), is very clear & simple. An aborted baby never gets a chance at life All the ‘other’ issues occur during a life (immigration, death row, poverty, racism, etc.) Bad advice. Bad example. Bad timing. The country approaches the gates of Sodom & Gomorrah. Civil rights are being mis-used to replace all our religious freedoms & you choose to say this now? Bishop Robert McElroy, let’s look into your eternal future — hot & hellish for your immortal soul? Sad & pathetic teaching. God watches, waits & will not be mocked.
Continued……..By the way, Bishop Thomas J. Olmsted managed to make this issue clear as crystal. Blessed are his people in the Phoenix diocese. Here are the words of a good leader, ““For example, Catholics may never legitimately promote or vote for any law that attacks innocent human life,” Bishop Olmsted said, latter adding “being right on all the other issues can NEVER justify a wrong choice on this most serious matter.” Pray for the diocese of San Diego. How in-appropriate & un-faithful does Bishop Robert McElroy’s advice seem in comparison? Praise God for Bishop Olmsted & his excellent example!
God bless you, From the Pew! Notice some similarity? Do you think that Saul Alinsky follower Hillary Clinton is simply talking about abortion when she says, “And deep-seated cultural codes, religious beliefs and structural biases have to be changed.” Hillary is not only hell bent on murdering unborn babies, she is also hell bent on destroying freedom of religion. This is not complex.
Please watch this You Tube – 24 seconds into the video Hillary Clinton says,
“And deep-seated cultural codes, religious beliefs and structural biases have to be changed,”
Who else thinks that Traditional religious beliefs and so-called structural biases, and “language” has to be changed?
Bishop McElroy told America that the Church should use “inclusive, embracing,” and “pastoral” language when referring to the same-sex attracted and sexual acts between people of the same sex.
Labeling homosexual acts as “intrinsically disordered,” as the Catechism does, is “very destructive language that I think we should not use pastorally,” McElroy said.
Life Site News – Mexican bishop says he’ll evangelize in prison if he’s locked up for ‘homophobia’
“Jesus said, ‘I have come to bring fire and divisions,’ referring to the consequences of living a firm and real commitment to the Gospel,” the newspaper quoted Bishop Ramon Castro as saying. “The presence of Jesus in our lives isn’t a matter of indifference to us, nor to those who surround us. If it were, we would have to doubt that it was anything but a superficial veneer.”
God bless, Bishop Ramon Castro! He is showing the faithful what it means to not be a “superficial veneer.”
Excellent posts, From the Pew! And YES– let’s have ONLY the GOOD bishops, like Bishop Olmsted!
Thus Bishop Olmsted’s article will be in our parish bulletin rather than these words which I find confusing from my own Bishop McElroy. Life, freedom to worship are among the most important issues and have been promoted by God Himself in the Bible. Personal care for others is biblical as well as justice for workers for an agreed upon wage, not one which the worker and government get to demand. Government social welfare and regulation is not biblical. I’ll start with the 5 non negotiables of life, marriage and sexuality, embryonic stem cell research, cloning and euthanasia, and then set my own priorities outside of Bishop McElroy’s rhetoric.
There is no such thing as a non-negotiable when it comes to voting. It is simply a list of issues that is important to you. Over-simplification of Catholic doctrine and advice is hardly good advice.
YFC your comments are not surprising you are a liberal first before you are Catholic. You are non-servium you will do your will… you are the perfect liberal… but you are not a Catholic….
You couldn’t be more wrong. Life is more important than anything else. Marriage and sexuality are very important as God created them to be. You can’t take care of human lives that you are destroying in the world.
Father, YFC is a liberal first, and he votes his will not Our Lord’s his thin veneer of Catholicism hides his outright contempt for the Faith…
Fr. Richard: How does one, pray tell, choose between, for example, a candidate who is pro abortion and their opponent who is anti-abortion, but could very well cause, through miscalculation, a nuclear war. I ask this because I was a strong McCain supporter until he selected Palin. The idea of him being older and having health problems (including those caused ( North Vietnamese torture) combined with the possibility of an unstable (IMO) VP was too much of a risk for me to bear.
Father, if I am wrong, then so is the magisterium, who regularly counsels Catholics to vote on the totality of issues, while never voting for someone BECAUSE they allow a sinful act.
You may have consulted your own conscience and determined for yourself the criteria you will use to determine which candidates to vote for, but the issues you have chosen carry no objective heavier weight than some other sets of issues, and your guidance of souls does not allow you to substitute your conscience for theirs. In fact, you ought to be counseling people to examine their conscience and follow it.
You and “jon” are obviously speaking as apologists for Catholics that simply want the Church to say, “its OK” to vote for Clinton. No, it does not matter one bit if Hillary supports more social programs than Trump or would support confiscatory mandatory wages and the like in the name of “social justice” (which is non-biblical, in any event).
A Catholic cannot vote for Hillary Clinton. Never.
Voting is a human, secular act– it is important, yes– but there are times to also NOT VOTE AT ALL– if ALL THE CANDIDATES ARE EVIL!! That is what I and my family do! And in this election– we all plan to write-in a candidate for President– such as, Marco Rubio, Rick Santorum, etc. NEVER COMMIT SIN IN GOD’S EYES, BY THINKING YOU MUST CHOOSE BETWEEN TWO WHO ARE BOTH EVIL!!! JUST ABSTAIN– OR WRITE-IN A CANDIDATE!!!!
Fr P: When you put Bp Olmstead’s article in the bulletin, hope you leave out Arzobispo Gomez’s foreward and the “Laudato Si” excerpts.
IF YOU DON’T HAVE LIFE……NOTHING ELSE MATTERS!
The San Diego bishop is confusing. Confusion is the work of the devil.
YES!! The road to Heaven is clear, straight, and honest, never confusing, “complex,” full of excuses for sin, and twisted with lies and deceptions! Christ was very clear, about how to lead a good Christian life!
Please pray for Bishop McElroy and all Bishops and clergy who think and talk as he does. He truly is misguided and in turn is leading many Catholics down the road to evil choices in voting. He may be intelligent but that means nothing when making good choices. He truly is pathetic and needs to be instructed as to what the orthodox teaching of the Roman Catholic Church are. He must have missed that class when studying at the seminary. Please pray for him. He will be held accountable for his actions. He should know that better than most people.
In what way is he “truly misguided” and leading many Catholics down the road to evil? That is a pretty harsh statement. You might want to back it up with facts and reason, rather than mere allegation.
Theresa, Yes the scandal of confusing spiritual issues, especially for a bishop (who should KNOW better) in regards to the innocent life of babies, is pure un-adultered evil. Confusion is the devils playground. This point alone, for a man of the cloth, shows his soul is in mortal danger. He creates a great scandal for his flock. He needs to recant, repent & rectify his statements NOW while he can in this life. Or upon his entrance into eternity, his judgement day, all of his flock of followers that were mislead, will be able to say to our dear God, he is the one who told me it was OK and so I ate the apple or voted for abortion or whatever the matter is. God will not be mocked. You can count on that. Pray.
Re the Bishop’s advice.
I was not aware that situational morality was part of Catholic dogma.
This foolish man, clearly is steering voters towards the Marxist Democrat, abortion worshiping candidate and should be removed from office for teaching heresy.
This is why the Church is dying.
Let’s test this with a thought experiment.
One candidate is old, anti-democratic, in failing health, and has presided over an economic collapse that has left vast numbers of citizens poor and unemployed.
Another candidate is a young, energetic, popular leader with a credible plan to increase employment, eliminate poverty, rebuild infrastructure, and provide social services for all in need.
Whom do you vote for?
(Paul von Hindenburg or Adolf Hitler?)
Father I’m actually stunned by your comments
1. Your characterization bears no resemblance to the two real works candidates, one of which, TiltingHildy, worships at the altar of abortion
2. More than a little tired of the ordained offering economic advice when they obviously have tno basis to claim moral teaching authority on the matter
3. You really need to understand that government doesn’t create job
4. Your vision is utopian and hence secular. Trying to represent it as an attribute of Catholic theology is so out-of-bounds tht a first year philosophy or theology major would destroy your argument in debate
5. Since u seem to be a socialist, I suggest u contemplate the endpoint which the destruction of Western Civ would mean…
William– Maybe you didn’t get the point that Fr. Fessio was making. I thought his point was just that in that particular horrific historical event, in Germany— the election was HOPELESS!! A STUPID ELECTION!! That’s all! Hopeless! And evil Hitler came to power, anyway! I don’t think Fr. Fessio meant to compare Nazi Germany to the United States. Just that the election was USELESS!! Don’t you get that simple point, too?? Or did I miss something??
You would be unhappy with your choice, but you certainly wouldn’t vote for Adolf Hitler, which is precisely why no one should vote for Donald Trump.
What is it with leftists who all seem to want to cast every Republican as the reincarnation of Hitler? It’s nonsense, dishonest, demagogic fear mongering.
Democrats are totalitarian and fascistic, not Republicans, which makes Democrats’ accusations of Republicans being the reincarnation of Hitler an astonishing exercise in lacking self-awareness.
Liberalism truly is a mental disorder, even if the DSM doesn’t identify it as such. Liberalism is an inability to think correctly, resulting in terribly flawed judgments about reality.
Sawyer, Iook at what you just wrote. You can’t comprehend that some people have different opinions than you do. You use slurs like “leftist”, “totalitarian”, “fascistic”, “mental[l] disorder[ed]”, “lacking in self awareness”, “unable to think correctly”.
I may disagree with you about a lot of things, but stop with the insults.The fact that you resort to those ad hominems indicates you are unwilling to employ logical process.
Trump has displayed a willingness to vilify innocent populations, and indeed to sequestor them in kinds of concentration camps, that does indeed mirror Hitler.
Brilliantly deceptive, “Fellow ‘Catholic'”:
Now Sawyer’s objective description of your preferred thinking and rhetoric (“leftist”; “totalitarian “; “fascistic” etc) which Sawyer bases on observation of objective fact, you try to subjectively transmute into a “slur”, perhaps a personal attack on your esteemed snowflake-ness—a “hate crime.”
An old ideological trick—to silence everyone unless they use language you must first approve. Yet every word strikes a nerve, because it describes your method of operation perfectly.
Still collecting names for Big Brother, are you?
Your Fellow Catholic– I thought Sawyer wrote a good post! And he certainly supports our Catholic Faith! I don’t understand everything he wrote– but it’s good! He is your “Fellow Catholic,” isn’t he, YFC?? (Sorry for the pun!) Well, YFC– did you recently turn your back on God, and join the immoral Democratic Party? Did you join with all the “Bad Catholics,” who are IMMORAL– like Biden, Pelosi, Kaine, etc.??? Really?? Is that why you are mean to Sawyer?? He is supposed to be– your fellow Catholic!! In our Church!!
Sawyer— I didn’t know that some people think of Republicans as “fascists,” or “totalitarian!” I never heard that one before! The Republican Party was started with President Abraham Lincoln– he was their party’s first President! Some very demented Southerners who were angry at Lincoln, viewed him as “too dictatorial,” and he was assassinated by a demented man, John Wilkes Booth, involved in a big assassination plot– who saw him as “too dictatorial!” Well– I still don’t know what you mean, Sawyer!
Get use to YFC, unlike you liberal coastal elites we “deplorables” will be…you gave us 7 years with a party that sides with Islam against Christians who have been wiped out in the middle east and imports more and more Muslims into the country whose goal is to destroy Christianity (btw) you would be first to be thrown off a roof .
Did you see the EWTN pgm Wolf in Sheep’s Clothing? It is about Saul Alinsky. Alinsky was a socialist/Marxist. Both Obama and H. Clinton are big followers of Alinsky. Won’t be voting for HRC. Cardinals like Dearden and Bernardin were also big Alinskyites.
Father JF, SJ, with all due respect for a man of the cloth, you have a lot of nerve to try to poison the well with a common intellectual maneuver unrelated to current facts. Your are exposed. Now let’s get back to reality for the times we live in & the ongoing war on all Catholic religious liberties. Vote for the pro-life Trump/Pence team or suffer the loss of what remains of religious freedoms. At this time in history, the nominations to the Supreme Court & Federal Court appointments are KEY. God bless America with His intellect.
Cintinued…….Father JF, your premise is ‘out’ and the truth is in. Just look at this wonderful Pro-Life News: Mr Trump’s formation of a Pro-Life Coalition & his choice of Majorie Dannenfelser as Chair, has the abortion crowd horrified for she is a strong pro-life lady. Read the article @ https://www.lifesitenews.com/pulse/extremist-soros-funded-pro-abortion-group-horrified-marjorie-dannenfelser-h/ Vote out the Soros’ funded globalist elite that support un-natural death. Go Pro-Life as God watches & waits. God be with us so we can end abortion now.
From the Pew– you are a good poster, a good Catholic, aren’t you? Well, Fr. Fessio is a very fine priest! I don’t think he was relating the historical events of Nazi Germany, to the United States, do you?? I didn’t clearly understand his post– but I think you misunderstood him! He was not being serious, just whimsical, about the bad elections, wasn’t he?? A hopeless case– and no good candidates to vote for, at all, sadly! Well, we are so BLESSED to have Fr. Fessio, in our Church! So BLESSED!! You must give him RESPECT!!
LM, Me Catholic? Guilty as charged! From birth till the day I die, God willing. So you think this is THE Fr Joseph Fessio founder of the Ignatius Press?? Really? Also theologian (recent past) for Ave Maria University? THAT good man? May God Bless Him. I meant no disrespect but had concerns about the premise/test. In case I offended, I will say some Hail Marys for the good father! Thanks for your insights LM! Sorry Father. Thought you were suggesting Catholics sit out the election & not vote for Pro-Life. Nothing sets me ‘off’ like hearing others suggest we vote pro-death. Praying!
Bless you, From the Pew! You know, Fr. Fessio helps all the time, with pro-life activities! Eva Muntean, the co-founder of the San Francisco “Walk for Life,” works at Ignatius Press!
What is your point, exactly, “Father”? Today, a Catholic cannot vote for Hillary Clinton. He knows precisely what she supports regarding homosexual sex and marriage, having a government–private corporate partnership with Planned Parenthood to have them donate considerable sums to the Democratic Party while the government gives them grants, abortion on demand, the entire suite of LGBTQ demands, and all the rest. These things are not ever compatible with Catholic and Biblical teachings. She is not ever a moral choice. [Note that at the time of the 1932 election, Hitler was not espousing violence towards Jews.]
I don’t believe this is truly Fr. Fessio S.J.
St. Christopher and Susan– Wasn’t Fr. Fessio just presenting a whimsical, creative scenario, of an impossibly HOPELESS election?? That’s what I thought!
Well, the case of von Hindenburg was HOPELESS– and he also opposed Hitler, but was too old and sick, and died! Hitler pushed his way to power, regardless. A popular leader, and a LIAR!! Hitler abolished the presidency, and declared himself as head of state. And von Hindenburg, who opposed Hitler– was the German president in failing health, who then died. Germany had collapsed economically, and had not recovered, after WWI– and many were starving! Whom do you vote for??? NO CHOICE AT ALL!!
P.S. I would vote for my FAVORITE (just being silly!) the former Papal nuncio to Germany, Cardinal Pacelli! Of course, he became Pope Pius XII!! Write-in his name! (But the election was a JOKE!!)
Just to clarify, as I typed so fast!— von Hindenburg did get re-elected, in his mid-80’s, but he was old and sick, and he shortly died! Then, Hitler quickly rose to power. HORRIBLE ELECTION!!
Ernst Rohm – the Diseased Homosex Ephebophile founder of the ‘SA’ Storm Troopers who put his protege / syphilitic prostitute boy toy hitler in to power – was assassinated by hitler’s Homosex SS in an internal power struggle.
Von Hindenburg was sold a propaganda ploy that the homo-nazi party had cleaned up its act with the disposal of Rohm – when it was just window dressing much like the curtain of lies H. Rodham and the Klintonistas hide behind.
Loyal American Soldiers / Marines who joined Honorably are now threatened with Dishonorable Discharge unless they pander to the Tranz-Orwellian Lies of the Abomination, not because the Scientific Facts of Gender Changed, but because of a Fundamental Transformation in to a nation of Pander…
Fascists & Theocrats
– members of the LGBT movement are often falsely accused of supporting fascism. In fact, I often hear them referred to as “homo fascists” – and I detest the term because it is inaccurate. (However, despite its fascistic overtones I do still occasionally employ the term “gaystapo.”
Put simply, LGBT activists are not seeking to have the government control all private businesses – as would be the case if they were truly fascistic. In reality, they are only seeking to have the government control all Christian organizations as well as individual Christian entrepreneurs
Fr. F: Sounds like FDR running against FDR, except for the “credible plan” part.
“My sheep know my voice!” Listen to the voice of Jesus and non other, unless the voice is in agreement with Jesus’! “Heaven and earth will pass away, my words will not pass away!” The Author of LIFE who Died to save Our Souls by Sacrificed His Sinless Body in the most horrific way for the Redemption of our SOULS, not our Bodies! Have any of those Religious who are making those Statements with Confusion care for our souls? No! If they don’t even know how to care for their own, how could they possible now how to help to help to save ours? Those Listen to Jesus only! Our Soul came from the Breath of God! We share in His Immortality, we are made in His Image, thus are His children. Who could loves us more? God or the Confused…
a fool, No your post is not foolish but profound….bless you!
William…..what you say is so well stated. Bishop McElroy needs to be removed from his office. He is truly teaching heresy. Who is over Bishop McElroy and how do we go about contacting this person? It needs to be done sooner rather than later. Does Bishop McElroy truly think that the killing of an unborn baby is not evil? If so, he is a very sick man.
Ty Cecilia, this bishop represents the core logic of the USCCB, I know this because as a journalist I have worked with them. Fact, the US Catholic Church had dozens of lobbyists in DC pushing the abortion promoting, anti free market, and now provably disastrous ObamaCare. The Catholic Church receives tens of millions of dollars from Team Obama, guess which master the American church serves?
Note to our kind editor, yes you should hire me, though I’m already quite busy maintaining http://www.pipelinenews.org I would work VERY cheaply to provide a voice of sanity on these matters
He never said that the killing of an unborn baby is not evil. And he never said what the headline said, which is that we can forget about intrinsic evils when voting. It is important to read what he wrote and consider his words carefully, and not put words in his mouth.
Your Fellow Catholic– in other words, the CORRUPT bishop was UNDERHANDED and DECEITFUL– like a SNAKE!!– in his approach! Surely you can see that!
P.S. Never listen to snakes disguised as Catholic bishops! Wolves in sheep’s clothing!
Actually, what B. McElroy writes is pretty bad theology. He is a political bishop as most American bishops tend to be. And, he is very clear that one can vote for abortion-loving candidates (the fact that it is not the central reason is crazy).
Who is over Bishop McElroy? Seriously? Don’t know much about the Roman Church? Who do you think is over him? Also, to imply that the Bishop thinks killing an unborn baby is not evil, is calumny and it is something we should not be doing.
To Dc. Moon. The Pope. He was appointed the bishop of San Diego by Pope Francis.
Seeking more information about the political left & all the organizations & connections with the political elite: BO, Mrs. Bill Clinton, George Soros, Saul Alinsky & his Rules for Radicals playbook, here is the answer. Look @
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/default.asp/ This should take you to the home page. It is not for the faint of heart as the sheer numbers of the networks are massive & world wide. We would be so blessed to escape this global hell for a few brief years if Mr Trump prevails in Nov….God willing.
Continued……sorry but the link above is technically correct but not working. I do not know why. You may have to try typing in: http://www.discoverthenetworks.org
Continued and correction……….this link will work to get you to the homepage of the ‘tell all’ about the political left.
Just click and go.
Deacon Raymond Moon, Sr.— In Vatican II, responsibility and discipline have nearly ceased, completely– in favor of total “hippie religious freedom,” for all in the Church, to do as they wish, each one “free” to “follow their own personal conscience!” Big LAUGH!! Since 1965– NO DISCIPLINE!! NO RESPONSIBILITY! Since that day, I always ask big Church leaders, every once in awhile— when they will return to discipline and responsibility! I always get STUPID ANSWERS!!
Do as you please” and ENJOY!”
Sorry– but the computer failed on me! My final sentence, in my above post, was meant to read— I always get STUPID ANSWERS, indicating— “Do as you please, enjoy your freedom!”
We all have responsibility for our own soul: we can follow the “Teachings of McElroy” or the “Teachings of the Church”. I choose the latter. While Trump is not a saint (we are not electing a saint) he is much more in line with Catholic teaching than Hillary Clinton. Hillary Clinton is evil. The Democratic Party has bought the USCCB — I pray that they “come back to the Church” and not lead so many to mortal sin.
Fr. Richard, you are a true shepherd. Fr. Fessio, are you comparing Trump to Hitler? If so, I am very surprised by your “thought experiment”.
Peggy– I don’t think Fr. Fessio was comparing the elections of Nazi Germany, to the United States! I think he was just writing a whimsical, creative “thought experiment,” about hopeless elections! But maybe Fr. Fessio can explain for us, sometime, what he meant!
The Better Argument has been made:
“Archbishop rebukes US gvmt official’s claim that religious liberty is just ‘code’ for ‘homophobia’
The head of the U.S. Bishops’ committee on religious freedom challenged recent charges of hypocrisy leveled by the chairman of a federal civil rights commission against religious Americans concerned their faith is under attack in society.
Archbishop William Lori of Baltimore issued a statement calling accusations of bigotry against people of faith by U.S. Commission on Civil Rights Chairman Martin Castro irresponsible and said the comments show deep disrespect for the basis for…
Fr. Fessio, S.J., your experiment does not hold water. We are not voting for
either of the candidates you mention. We have a choice between an Evil Woman
and Trump. You do not have to be a rocket scientist or a Jesuit to understand
who Bishop McElroy is touting for the coming Presidential Election. We have a
choice between good or evil. My choice is not yours. And by the way, you just lost a follower with your comments. But I would imagine, you do not care. You are a well trained Jesuit product. I will be praying for you.
Veronica– we have a HOPELESS ELECTION! NO CHOICE AT ALL!! An EVIL WOMAN, and a BIGOTED, UNTRUSTWORTHY, WEALTHY BUFFOON, who constantly FLIP-FLOPS on his views! In Hitler’s Germany, the German people faced a similar HOPELESS election– and evil Hitler ended up winning as their leader, anyway, in the end– his opponent got elected– but then died! STUPID election! Wasn’t Fr. Fessio trying to just say, that sometimes in history, you see HOPELESS elections, that are doomed from the start– nothing can possibly turn out right!! JINXED!! That is similar to our current election, too– HOPELESS! WORTHLESS!! RIDICULOUS!!
Veronica, Fr. Fessio is a very fine priest! We must give him our RESPECT!!
Readers beware. By employing subliminal messaging devices and neuro linguistic programming, Bp McElroy is attempting to suggest that despite any and all intrinsic evils, we should vote Hillary, vote Hillary, vote Hillary. Oh, this too, too clever man.
‘Course halfway through the article I did get a hankering for popcorn and a coke. Hmmm.
Ever since Judas Iscariot, there have been phony clerics who give false public fidelity to Christ, with a blistering, Satanic “kiss,” while betraying Him horribly! These evil, crooked, selfish, DEVIANT men, have all LOST THEIR SOULS TO THE DEVIL!! Many are over-educated, DEVIANT FOOLS, with smooth tongues! The pathways of God are STRAIGHT, HONEST, and TRUE—not CROOKED, “COMPLEX,” and DEVIANT– HIDING BEHIND LIES, CHEATING, AND SIN!! ABORTION is an INTRINSIC EVIL!! IT IS MURDER!! PERIOD!! DON’T LIE TO GOD, WITH TWISTED WORDS, AND TELL HIM YOUR DEVIANT EXCUSES FOR MURDER, AND EXPECT GOD TO AGREE!!
Oh for crying out loud. The commentators on this site are so out to lunch they can’t even figure out who is on their side. Fessio gets taken to the coals when he is agreeing with them. People here can’t even engage their brains before they type, or else they are well into their fourth glass of wine…
Church Militant has had its run ins with the Establishment – and yet their analysis of the Candidates stands up to scrutiny better than a Bishop’s:
‘Catholic’ Kaine, Crooked Hillary
fast forward five years to the U.S. presidential election and ask yourselves this question: Why would an apostolate of faithful practicing Catholics who are 100 percent faithful to the Magisterium of the Church be singled out and portrayed as being disobedient, while scoundrels who help enact laws supporting sodomy, birth control and child killing are given a pass in being allowed to call themselves Catholic?
Tim Kaine, a liar,…
Re. the “thought experiment” of Fr. F: I think it describes perfectly the election of 2008, when a radical communist with totalitarian intentions took over the US:
“One candidate is old, anti-democratic, in failing health, and has presided over an economic collapse that has left vast numbers of citizens poor and unemployed.” – That’s McCain to a “T”.
“Another candidate is a young, energetic, popular leader with a credible plan to increase employment, eliminate poverty, rebuild infrastructure, and provide social services for all in need.” – Ah, there’s Dear Leader Obama. Poifect.
Ahhh yes – “Dear Leader” Barry ‘on the down low’ Soetoro – who is wreaking as much havoc on the nation as his terms ends as his ‘spiritual mentor – Rev. G.D. A. Wright’ could hope for.
Barry has brought Race War to the Nation in a way that mirrors ISIS in the Levant – and for much the same purpose – Destruction.
Lets cheer a leamestem media that covers for Barrry and his heir apparent like H. Rodham and Pelosi successor Mark “Kiddie Porn King” Leno – in the service of a tolerance, for Evil – only rivaled by Hereditary Dictator for Life Kim of N-Korea.
Viva La One Parry State – where Orwellian Niewspeak is the only language of ‘tolerance’ allowed, and all else ‘hate crime’.
Pope Benedict (Cdl Ratzinger)
” Worthiness to Receive Holy Communion, General Principles”-
” 3. Not all moral issues have the same moral weight as abortion and euthanasia.
…………….There may be a legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about waging war and applying the death penalty, but not however with regard to abortion and euthanasia.”
Read the rest of the General Principles, MIKE, not just the part that seems to bolster your own point of view. Those same general principles say that a person MAY VOTE FOR SOMEONE SUPPORTING ABORTION OR EUTHENASIA so long as that is not the REASON they are voting for the person. Be honest, quote fairly, please.
Your interpretation is not correct I quoted. You did not “quote” anything..
That is why I provided the link for the complete statement, and here it is again.
Rep. Chris Smith(R) was asked about the election on EWTN. He said Clinton will push abortion in this country and the whole world. She will appoint judges who pass the abortion ‘litmus test’. She will overturn pro-life laws (even Hyde amendment) using courts, executive action, legislation, etc. She will go after religious freedoms. W A K E U P B I S H O P S ! !
Fr. Fessio is a very fine Jesuit, who should be the leader of his tragically-corrupt religious order! Our Holy Father, on the other hand– is sadly NOT a good Catholic, nor a good Jesuit!
Lord GOD Heavenly Father Where is Cardinal Sarah ?
Brian– Cardinal Sarah should be our Pope!
Brian, I ‘suspect’ after Cardinal Sarah’s recent ‘orientation’ request (?), rejected by so many bishops + the pope’s negative comments about it,’not changing that’, the poor good man was sent to the ‘woodshed’. He and Cardinal Burke have good company there & those of us in the pew, know what is going on in this power struggle of progressive leanings vs church teaching. Let’s all say a prayer for the good men in the woodshed. Pray.
Where there are good, strong Bishops and Cardinals – seminaries are filled to
capacity. Case in point, the mid west. How many priests are being ordained here in Northern California? Our young men here in California have few role models in the clergy to emulate. Yes, there are some but they are few and far between. I would like to hear Bishop McElroy’s thoughts on this.
Intrinsically . . . boring; intrinsically confused.
“Follow the money!” The obfuscation is all about supporting the party that financially supports the USCCB and that money is currently pouring in for refugee resettlement. Bishop McElroy is not interested in protecting life or marriage. There’s no money in those issues. There are unlimited funds for unlimited immigration aka open borders. Ask yourself which candidate favors building a wall and which candidate favors flooding our country with refugees and illegal aliens and then you’ll understand why Bishop McElroy wrote this piece justifying voting for the culture of death. Pray for our clerics who are more interested in raking in the money than saving souls.
Joan P., Good point. There is almost unlimited government funding for the USCCB in refugee/immigration/illegal assistance. Why? Because that is where this POTUS has moved government funds to support his global/socialist agenda. Also, G. Soros donated funds to the USCCB for the pope’s USA visit & God knows what else. Sometimes I need to remind myself about all this money the USCCB should not be accepting. To find out more about these interconnected money trails, go to: http://www.discoverthenetworks.org It is shocking to see that the networks are world wide = global. When did all this happen? God help us! Pray.
Hmmm, let’s consider the following:
One of the 33 Catholic leaders now working with the Trump Campaign on Al Kresta Catholic radio .. Interview
Here is what a real courageous Bishop and priest had to say:
Courage Arises – A Homily Virtually No Priest Would Give