The following event, Same sex marriage: the Church and the controversy, is posted on the Diocese of Sacramento’s website:
Saturday, August 29, 2015, 7:00 PM – 8:30 PM
Location: Presentation of the Blessed Virgin Mary Parish – Sacramento, CA. RSVP to this event here!
While many are praising the U.S. Supreme Court’s decision redefining marriage as a victory for love and tolerance, the Catholic Church maintains that marriage will always be – and can only be – between one man and one woman. Does that mean our Church is out of touch, stupid or unloving?
Join Catholic Answers apologist Trent Horn who will help us – especially high school teens and their parents – understand why the Church’s views and teachings on marriage are:
◦ Compassionate and reasonable
◦ Not hateful or bigoted
◦ In keeping with our nature as men and woman
◦ The best thing for children
◦
Our speaker Trent Horn is an apologist and speaker for Catholic Answers, an apostolate that is dedicated to explaining and defending the Catholic faith. He specializes in teaching Catholics how to graciously defend their faith with sound arguments and persuasive communication techniques. He currently lives with his wife and son in San Diego.
The following is from an August 2 Catholic News Agency article by Kevin J. Jones:
Dignity USA on July 5 announced support for “full access to marriage and ordination” in the Catholic Church. The group’s annual convention, held in Seattle, approved a resolution that said Catholic leaders should “ensure that all of the sacraments of our Church be administered regardless of the gender identity, sexual orientation, or relational status of the person(s) seeking the sacrament.”
Marianne Duddy-Burke, Dignity USA’s executive director, claimed that LGBT people are “officially banned from marriage and ordination” and often denied other sacraments.
“We can’t be fully equal if we are barred from any of our Church’s sacraments,” she said. Her statement cited the U.S. Supreme Court’s recognition of civil same-sex marriage in June as a precedent for cultural change.
Elk Stanley, senior legal counsel with the legal group Alliance Defending Freedom, said that Catholic individuals and organizations can face can face lawsuits and other threats due to non-discrimination laws and ordinances regarding employment and places of public accommodation.
But he did not think Dignity USA’s position would pose a problem for the legal defense of Catholic groups or individuals that support Catholic teaching.
“It is difficult to predict what will sway judges, regulators, or legislators,” Stanley said. “Legislators and others have attempted to cite churches that have left the evangelical Protestant teaching on marriage as proof that churches are changing their ways. But this is probably less of a concern for the Catholic Church which has been clear for hundreds of years regarding its doctrine as it relates to marriage and human sexuality.”
“Absent a change from the leadership of the Catholic Church on these issues, the voice of one dissident group will not likely be attributed as Catholic church doctrine,” Stanley told Catholic News Agency July 29.
Dr. John Grabowski, a professor of moral theology at Catholic University of America, saw the move to change marriage in the Catholic Church as a consequence of the June 2015 U.S. Supreme Court decision. However, he said it also reflects cultural trends dating back five or six decades. Contraception and no-fault divorce already represented a cultural definition of marriage.
Dignity USA’s endorsement of “sacramental equality” drew support from another dissenting Catholic group, New Ways Ministry, in a July 8 statement from its executive director Francis DeBernardo.
Both groups are part of the Equally Blessed Coalition. Their financial backers include the Arcus Foundation, which gave the coalition a $200,000 grant intended “to support pro-LGBT faith advocates to influence and counter the narrative of the Catholic Church and its ultra-conservative affiliates.” The advocacy efforts are connected with the Synod on the Family and World Youth Day, according to the grant listing on the foundation’s website.
Ms. Duddy-Burke stated “We can’t be fully equal if we are barred from any of our Church’s sacraments.”
I won’t accuse her of lying, but its clear that her understanding is limited. She, today, is free to receive the Sacrament of Marriage if she marries a man. Romantic/erotic love is not a necessary requirement for marriage. Also, marriages tend to be more stable when couples enter into marriage without this dynamic. Psychologically speaking, romantic/erotic love adds a cagey source of discord into many marriages. Lastly, the true mark of marriage is not erotic love but agape love (charity). Therefore, Ms. Duddy-Burke’s statements don’t represent truth but are propaganda designed to persuade simpletons.
Only un-Christian, PAGAN societies, make arranged marriages– often, for economic survival– with perhaps a dowry paid, by the girl’s parents. Women are viewed usually as “property” in these societies– and sometimes, a man may have more than one wife, or else mistresses. Romantic love that is pure and unselfish, sacrificing egoistic desires for the highest well-being of the Beloved, is the pathway to holiness, in the Church’s Sacrament of Holy Matrimony!! A false, “platonic” union, of a man and a woman (like animals!) with no Romantic Love, and the natural sex desire for child-bearing– is a LIE before God, and no priest would allow such a false Sacrament, in his church!
Linda M,
My statements were not made to advocate for arranged marriages but to simply state that romantic love in the Western psyche is fraught with psychic issues. Romantic/erotic love is not necessary for marriage as we see with the parents of St. Therese of Lisieux. She came from a very strong family whose parents found each other only after both were rejected from the monastic life. In fact, they consummated their marriage about a year or so after the ceremony and only after taking the advise of their pastor. While romantic/erotic love can make for a strong marriage, it can also cause a marriage to break apart. Also my statements were made only within the context of the necessary requirements for marriage being present.
To Steve Seitz– This situation you are presenting, is a sad deception! The Sacrament of Holy Matrimony, is for only MATURE men and women, ready for this Sacrament! Good priests will send the others to counseling! Marriage is certainly NOT for “goofballs,” with big emotional problems! Couples who are NOT IN LOVE, and enter into a false, “platonic” marriage– can be emotionally unstable, with big problems!! Romantic Love, with this holy Sacrament, is lifted to an even higher level, by God, and sanctified!! Marriage is DEFINITELY NOT for just “two people,” like “two animals”– with no Romantic Love!!
I wish to add something, regarding the parents of St. Therese of Lisieux. Their marriage was for social and economic reasons, due to their era, and French culture. Otherwise– WHY DO THESE TWO NEED TO MARRY?? They DID NOT WANT IT AT ALL!! And poor Zelie Martin cried and cried!! Her wedding day, she said– was the MOST HORRIBE DAY OF HER LIFE!! These two wanted to be in religious orders!! So, what did they do?? With the help of the kind priest, they made peace with their situation, and did the best they could with it! NO OTHER CHOICE!! And they became saints, luckily!!
Steve Seitz– it is very sad, if you do not believe in Romantic Love, as it is a gift of God, from Heaven!! The only reason that platonic marriages seem to work well, in foreign, pagan cultures– is that women are forced into it, for economic and social reasons, for the stabilization of their economically-deprived societies. They truly have NO CHOICE!! Some are also sadly ABUSED, in these marriages! People make peace with what is possible, in these cultures. Due to their poverty, pagan religious beliefs, and the dangers lurking for single women– you either marry, or else live with your family, until you find a husband.
Steve Seitz– The conjugal act, of a fake “marriage” in Christian terms, in our Western civilization– lowers and extremely degrades the conjugal act, to being a horrible nightmare, which must be endured– like putting two animals together in the barnyard, for breeding!! EXTREMELY DEGRADING AND DEHUMANIZING!! Especially, for the poor woman!! (Some men in arranged marriages, also have mistresses, whom they may be physically attracted to, or in love with– an excuse, sadly, for emotional and sex desire needs!) Not all people are called by God, to marry! Marriage is NOT a “required social event!!”
Linda M:
You seem to have a lot of energy on this topic and have made a lot of false assumptions. I was simply making statements that refuted a quote as well as statements about the unstable nature of romantic love in the Western psyche. My statements do not support matrimony in regard to immaturity, deception, coercion, or any other thing that would invalidate a marriage. Also, regarding one of your queries, I have experienced romantic love, as we all have.
But if you look at 50 year old marriages, any dynamic of romantic love that had been present has mostly receded and has been replaced by a very strong affection and agape love. Are these marriages, therefore, automatically invalid?
Steve…not for my mom and dad @ 45 years!
Linda Marie, romantic love in marriage is a fairly recent innovation, and I don’t agree with you that it is the highest form of love. People married for the be getting of children, for the mutual benefit of both parties and society as a whole. Watch “Fiddler On the Roof” for a delightful and informative view of traditional marriages practiced by most cultures at one time. Marriage between a man and a woman is a cultural universal whereas romantic love is mostly a Western practice. I heartily agree with Steve that romantic love fades and either becomes a deeper love (agape selfless love) or turns to indifference and even loathing. My dad always said never marry a man who didn’t like to fish. I would say, never marry a man who…
… can’t laugh at himself. You’re lucky if romantic love continues to grow, but no one should ever divorce just because they “don’t love each other anymore”. That is sheer nonsense!
Exactly. It is truly amazing that people who have such faulty and erroneous knowledge of the Faith are making such fantastic demands and positing such radical changes that they have no logical idea about. We all know that the true elements of a Sacrament are matter, form and intention. If all three elements are not present, then no sacrament occurs. In the case of Matrimony, the elements are: a Man and a Woman. Not two Men nor two Women. Easy. As to ordination of women; St. John Paul pronounced infallibly on that issue some time ago when he stated that “the Church has no power to ordain women.” Full stop. What part of that statement do they not understand? So, if homosexual “marriage” or women priests is your desire, then you will have…
Dear Housemonkey,
God bless YOU! You are right on! The abuse of God’s Truth and HIs Ten Commandments within some of our Catholics are simply too painful for us to accept! “Love the sinner, hate the SIN.” Is what we all are trying to do! Pray to God, the Most Holy Trinity and Our Blessed Mother Mary Most Holy to help to convert those Same Gender Union Seekers be lead onto the Path of God’s Commandments! Sodomy is Sodomy no matter how one wants to put it or twisting a Mortal Sin into something beautiful! A Mortal Sin could never be anything beautiful! Sin is Ugly, there is no Beauty in it! Because it is going against God’s wIll. God alone is Beauty! He is the Master of LIFE! Sodomy is anti LIFE! Because it brings Death to the…
To the Seeker,
Amen!!!! I, 100% agree with your statement. The youth today believe in the here and now, i.e. YOLO.
I am so tired of “the new normal” homosexuality being forced down my throat, I not only find it immoral, but it is just disgusting. I have been married for 23 years and I am still in love with my husband.
Yes, thank you hose monkey. Really helpful post!
Steve …. I’ve never heard of anything from the Church (Gospals, CCC, etc.or psychology which supports your opinion ” marriages tend to be more stable when couples enter into marriage without this dynamic. Psychologically speaking, romantic/erotic love adds a cagey source of discord into many marriages” I was once in romantic love and agape love which I treasure as a gift from God though, in his wisdom, he took her early in life. I hope you are, or will, have such a love in your life.
C&H, I don’t know of any Church documents that indicate that marriages without romantic love are more stable. However, the psychologist Robert Johnson has written of the pitfalls of romantic love that have developed in the Western psyche, and I remember seeing a statistic showing that marriages that occur without romantic love tend to be more stable. My opinion is also based on a lifetime of personal observation of others.
Please note that my comments were not meant to say that I, personally, am without romantic love. I was simply responding to an article quote. I’m silent on whether a couple should contract marriage with or without romantic love. To me, it inherently doesn’t matter if agape love is there in large quantities.
Typo Alert: The last sentence of my last post should have read, “To me, it inherently doesn’t matter AS LONG AS agape love is there in large quantities.
Steve in your defense your example sounds like in the case of Virgin Mary and St Joseph. They were not romantic in the sense of your description. If i understoor you right. I believe you were speaking of something entirely different than Linda Maria assumed, although she makes sense too on the examples she opinioned on but i disagree with the notion that all arranged marraiges are either pagan nor not. I know of a few arranged marraiges that are solid, devoutly Catholic and long lasting still. But in the case of Princes Diana, an arranged marraige, well Linda Maria described well the suffering and adultress situation that poor Princes D went through.
Lesbian and homosexual romance is only lust. A disordered form of false love against God’s natural law. One in which violates chastity. We must continue to pray to our Lord and beg for forgiveness for these acts against God. Pray for all struggling to understand this. They need our prayers.
Abeca … If you are specificly referring to me and Helen I can only ask 1) how you would know? and 2) tell you that it hurts me very much. I’m really surprised this came from you.
Steve Seitz, I think you misunderstand Romantic Love! In all couples who are mature to begin with, they will typically have a very long marriage, until one of the spouses dies— and half of you also dies, with your BELOVED!! Romantic Love NEVER changes, Steve Seitz! You simply get over the initial “crush,” that is deeply intense–and settle into two lovers, for life! That is what a True Marriage is– TWO LOVERS FOR LIFE, hand-in-hand, with God!! True Love is also mystical, very close to God! An 80- year- old may look at his/her beloved spouse, with the same starry-eyed adoration, as when they were teen-agers!
For clarity, my last sentence in my above post should read, “To me, it inherently doesn’t matter as long as love is there in large quantities.
First let me state that I have been married for 23 years and I married my husband because I loved him; physically, romantically, passionately, etc. My husband has and will always be the answer to my PRAYERS! Yes we have had many ups and downs in our marriage but you will get out of it what you put into it. If you do not communicate or spew haterage and mean things from your mouth then yes, I agree love dies because it becomes pain. Like anything worth having, it’s worth fighting for!!!
The best example of true agape love as opposed to romantic love, Steve, is Jane Austen’s “Sense and Sensibility”. Wouldn’t you agree?
Dana,
I have to admit that I’m not familiar with “Sense and Sensibility.” I won’t be able to comment on it. :)
Steve Seitz, the only reason that True Love may seem to fade away in some couples that once had a beautiful Romantic Love– is cruelty, abuse, immaturity, and selfishness, which destroys LOVE!! True Love is one of God’s greatest gifts to us! But one has to be MATURE, to properly receive this great gift, and cultivate it with Christ-like care and devotion! Holy Matrimony, in our Church, is a life’s VOCATION, and it is NOT FOR EVERYONE— ONLY for those called to it, by God! Many people in modern Western cultures are troubled, unstable, and immature, as well as immoral, sadly! Not good marriage material! Also– your psychologist is NUTS!!
Abeca and Linda M,
I think most of the confusion may have to do with our definitions of romantic love [which both of your have alluded to]. I’m speaking more from a psychological perspective whereas I think Linda Maria is using more of a classic definition.
To “psychologize” True Love– is just RIDICULOUS!! Romantic Love is a great gift of God, and the highest and most wonderful experience, known to mankind!! It reflects God’s Love, in Heaven! In the Bible, the famous “Song of Songs” extolls the beauty of Romance, a metaphor for God’s Love for us, and the final destiny– of the union with God in Heaven, of the holy Saints! That is to be the final destiny also, of the Jewish people, God’s Beloved! The soul is feminine, and God is masculine– and the Two Lovers unite, and become as ONE!!
Steve Seitz– the “Song of Songs” in the Bible, is interpreted by the Catholic Church, to be an allegory of Christ, the Bridegroom, and His Bride, the Church. In the Catholic Wedding Mass, this allegory is noted– the Bride is an allegory of the Church, and the Bridegroom is an allegory of Christ. This is all very beautiful!
Linda M.,
I never said that true love fades away: in fact, I’ve said the opposite. What I said is that eros love usually morphs into mostly agape love. And from an ecclesiastical perspective, agape love is the highest form of love.
Steve Seitz– Marriage is a VOCATION, to which a couple is called, by God! The highest form of love– is always SELF-SACRIFICE, to desire the highest and best, before God— for your Beloved! Sex is only about 2% of the married couple’s total life, and a true marriage, must not just be based on that– but on MATURITY and True Love, and daily living out your holy Wedding Vows! In a good marriage, all parts of the couple’s life work together harmoniously, including sex, which is a gift of God, too!.
Linda Maria, I think that is what Steve Seitz was trying to express (basically what you wrote in your post at 2:07 pm). He just seems to be saying it in a different way. He can correct me if I am wrong.
I agree Ann T
Expect Staged ‘Tantrum Theater’ to become a media staple in the Attack on the Church, with ‘reporting’ of abuse by the ‘Kiddie Porn King Leno / Larry Brinkin Posse’ heavily censored, like this scam:
“Lesbians Fake Another Crime – This Time, It Cost Them Their House
https://freedomoutpost.com/2015/08/lesbians-fake-another-crime-this-time-it-cost-them-their-house/
When their house caught on fire, they claimed that they had been threatened. The lesbian couple claimed that XXX was responsible.
Well, not so fast…
A jury in U.S. District Court on Monday ruled in favor of American National Property and Casualty Company (ANPAC), which provided evidence that Carol Ann Stutte and Laura Jean Stutte torched their home in 2010 in…
Everyone knows, that the Sacrament of Holy Matrimony, is a very distinct Sacrament, of a man and woman deeply in love, freely choosing to be lifelong Husband and Wife, and bringing children into the world, as a family! Everyone KNOWS that! This is the basis of all civilization! There is NO SUCH THING— as so-called “equality,” in this Sacrament! One cannot LIE, and say two different things are exactly equal– when they are NOT!! Gay sex perversions are a SIN before God, and gay “love” is a psychological disorder! Sad but true! But it is better to face life– with the TRUTH!!
BEWARE– but there is such a thing, as a marriage entered into– for false reasons! One of them, is economic survival! There are illegal aliens, for one example, who make a bargain with an American citizen, for a quick, false marriage, to help with the process of gaining American citizenship. Later, of course, these marriages are dissolved. Sometimes, the American is paid a sum of money, for this false marriage! If the couple has sex (usually, there is no sex attraction– only the “quickie” fake marriage)— a child may be born, into a very shaky situation! (The child will also be an American citizen, if born here!)
For the most part, such things are not worthy of a person of integrity and good character. As the old saying goes, “Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we begin to deceive.” And please, people, do not give me the old red herring that it is to help their family — that is really a rarity. Many of us American citizens have worked at very hard but moral jobs, long hours, to support our families when there was much temptation to take the “easy” way out but we just could not lie to ourselves and others and to the one who sees all — Almighty God. That is why I have never brought anyone or anything over here illegally, nor have I ever knowingly taken anyone or anything illegally into another country. I suppose there are rare…
Continued: circumstances where a person who has done nothing wrong in their own country might understandably break another country’s laws to get in, such as if someone is trying to murder them and their family, but in general we all should abide by the laws of each other’s countries when there.
Anne T., and others– There are counselors in San Francisco, who help illegal aliens, who are misguidedly seeking marriages with American citizens, for the wrong reasons– for gaining eventual citizenship. A sad plight! Many of the illegal aliens, are women from many different countries, in very tragic circumstances!
Linda Maria, it is good that they are encouraging them to enter the country in the right way. Otherwise, they will only be abused over here and possibly used as prostitutes or sex slaves.
Ann T: I’m in agreement with your statement about my post and Linda M’s 2:07 pm post. I’m not entirely sure, but I think she posted not to disagree but to expound further.
As you know, self-sacrificial love is agape love.
There are only perhaps three reasons for a “platonic,” false marriage, to be entered into. Naturally, such a union, being false, and not gifted with romantic, True Love, by God– would be REPUGNANT, and unthinkable, especially, lifelong! The three tragic reasons are: 1. Economic survival (usually, of the poor woman, in tragic economic circumstances) 2. Out-of-wedlock pregnancy
3. Family or social pressure (this is unlawful, in the Church, as a Sacramental Marriage must be freely entered into!) Various other false motives may include, to marry a rich person for money, or because they are famous!
Marriage Equality is a SECULAR, CIVIL action. It has nothing to do with sacraments, this church or anything religious.
You’ve learned to live with divorce (Jesus spoke about that but not about homosexuality or same-sex marriage) so get over it and we can all move on.
There is NO SUCH THING– as so-called, “Marriage Equality!” Gay “love” is a psychological disorder, and gay sex perversions are a SIN before God! Whether a civil or a church marriage, it is always the same– True Marriage, validly entered into, by one man and one woman! Not some crazy, stupid, immoral, political “baloney!” Ask your Mom and Dad– they will tell you the truth (unless they are crazy!) The liberal, Godless, immoral lawmakers of modern America– are LYING, before ALMIGHTY GOD– when they seek to destroy True Marriage, and concoct some crazy, horrible LIE, and falsely “legalize” their LIES!!
“Jim McCrea”: “Dignity USA” is pushing for “sacramental” equality. Why? Because the LGBT generally despise the Catholic Church. They know that by insulting the Catholic sacraments by opening them to people who stubbornly persist in public proclamation of mortal sin (i.e. homosexual sex), the notion of “communion” with Christ and His Church becomes meaningless.
There is no “moving on” for the Faith after the Supreme Court decision. The LGBT crowd continues to press on eliminating any civil benefit (such as tax exempt status) for the Church, and will likely insist on the right to seek penalties from any that manifest anti-homosexual marriage beliefs. Time to be honest, and see the battles yet to come.
“Romantic/erotic love is not a necessary requirement for marriage. Also, marriages tend to be more stable when couples enter into marriage without this dynamic.”
Great promo for matrimony! Keep it up.
Regarding HOMOSEXUALITY – – –
SACRED SCRIPTURE: Gen 19:1-29; Rom 1:24-27; 1 Cor 6:9-10;
1 Tim 1:10; Jude 1:7.
DOCTRINE of the FAITH: – CCC: 2357, 2358, 2359, & 2396.
CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH
” SOME CONSIDERATIONS CONCERNING the RESPONSE to LEGISLATIVE PROPOSALS on the NON-DISCRIMINATION OF HOMOSEXUAL PERSONS”
https://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19920724_homosexual-persons_en.html
Praising and approving sin – – –
Scandal – Leading others to sin – – –
” Why a Catholic should not attend an invalid wedding ceremony ”
(This would also include 2 homosexuals.)
https://newtheologicalmovement.blogspot.com/2014/08/why-catholic-should-not-attend-invalid.html
One needs to make peace with REALITY, with what can be, and with what CANNOT BE, in this life! One needs to understand the big difference, between fact and fiction, between childish ideas– and realism!! One must consult God, and see what He has in mind for you– not run around leading a destructive, hedonistic life, and destroying others’ lives— all for false, unrealistic ideas, that are just lies, deceptions, and sins! God has something wonderful in store, for each of His children! And He wants us all to lead a good life, and seek Heaven! He is there, waiting for His wayward children, to come to Him– He has ALL THE ANSWERS FOR US!!
How do you tell someone persuasively and kindly that their love is a lie and they are gravely disordered? Can anyone tell my how to sound compassionate and graciously? I’m finding it rather difficult. When I tell people they do not have the ability to form relationships, are abusing their bodies and sinning, they tell me I’m judging them mind, body and soul and I think they’re right. I mean, we aren’t we?
Fortunately, it’s been done for us, Jim. It’s not something we made up or just our opinion, but came directly from God and the teaching of Holy Mother Church. In discussing such weighty matters, try putting the shoe on the other foot. Ask someone who promotes same-sex relationships to explain why they think God approves of them, or why they think it equates equality with male-female relationships. By asking someone recently about who profits from these bogus marriages, they recalled a lawyer friend who was really pushing them. Ah, the divorce profit motive. Hmmmm. Let people defend their beliefs by asking logical questions. Ultimately, They can’t defend the indefensible. Most people are not stupid but are seldom called upon…
…seldom called upon to really follow through in their opinions. Be a good listener. Aren’t we all tired of being told what to think? Aren’t we frustrated that no one really listens? Well, we can at least try to be better at sharing their view. Who knows, we might learn something new! ( I’m including myself in this people :) )
They’ve told me they are tired of being told what to think and that nobody listens.
If you are a mother or a father, and your teen-ager suddenly comes to you and tells you he or she feels same-sex attractions– what do you do?? This is a big responsibility! You have to teach lovingly but firmly– and state the plain facts! Yes, same-sex attraction and “love” is abnormal, and disordered! Yes, it is a Mortal Sin to perform acts of sex perversion– also one may die of AIDS, or a similar disease! What would Jesus do? The same! Only, like a good sports coach– He would be hard on someone, to get them to do their best, while giving them the love of God, too! The result? AWESOME! HEAVEN, someday!
Love is not abnormal or disordered, Linda Marie. Love can be distorted in any relationship. It is a mortal sin to perform acts of sex perversion in a heterosexual relationship as well. It is not wrong to love. The acts are what is wrong. Marriage between two people of the same sex is wrong, because marriage is established by God for the procreation and education of children. It must be between two people of the opposite sex. Jesus is not hard on people who sincerely want to please him. We all commit many sins. He forgives and binds up the wounds that our sins cause in us and in others.
Jim what’s wrong with judgment I do it every day, as do you….smash the non-judgmental paradigm
The Church has some wonderful resources, for devoted Catholic married couples, who daily seek to live a holy life, in their Sacramental Wedding Vows, in their God-given vocation! I will name a few: “Three to Get Married,” an excellent book by Venerable Fulton J. Sheen, Pope St. John Paul II’s “Theology of the Body,” the famous “Letter to Married Couples” by Pope Pius XII, “Casti Connubii,” (“On Christian Marriage”) an encyclical of Pope Pius XI, and many others! Perhaps Pope Francis should take a good look at this literature, too— especially, before the October Synod!!!
How do you tell someone persuasively and kindly
First – Get your facts ‘straight’ and do not use the ‘Happy Newspeak’ supplied by the media, which is slanted to produce judgments already – while censoring the facts themselves.
Second – Differentiate between Love and Behavior – one is a feeling and another is acting out, which the spread of Aids has shown is more than a feeling and the Behavior is physically harmful as well as pathological (they know this – but want you to be to embarrassed to remind them).
Then – I suggest you take the conversation in to the field of Love versus Behavior – and that Love does Not Require certain behaviors, and thus the attempt to use it as a blanket for censorship does no good to anyone.
Once…
I don’t think they have ever tried to censor me, I just tell them what the Catechism and our church authorities such as the Curia and the Magisterium say and they reply.
they seem to have a problem with being told they do not experience the same type of love as heterosexuals. I’ve been asked how I know how they feel.
Another good technique might be to affirm to them that you are glad that they exist. You love their existence, but you disapprove of some of their acts. You might then contrast this with a terrorist group like ISIS. These terrorists hate our very existence. They do not hate us for what we do; they hate our being. We, on the other hand, love everyone’s being. Therefore, because we love, we must disapprove of acts that are self-harmful and offensive to God. Our silence would be unloving and a sin of omission.
yes, they need to know that their particular love is a lie but this has been very difficult to break to people.
You might refer them to Aquinas on healthy self-love. Healthy love promotes the true temporal and spiritual good of the person. Love that is a lie promotes neither of these. If people deny the spiritual good, then you might instead dwell on the temporal: homosexual acts are intrinsically high-risk, and the public health data on this is overwhelming.
If you told me my love is a lie I’d make sure everyone of your friends knew what a hypocritical and jusgemental follower of the devil looks like. Then I’d show them your picture.
Anonymous – There was a time when I would have agreed with you, but now I see that I was just rationalizing what I knew in my heart was wrong. Instead of personal attacks, why not focus on the Aquinas-healthy-love argument?
It is a shame there are those who attack others, especially when we’re trying to save the souls of people so damaged they feel dignity is in abusing their bodies in horrific ways, over a fetish run amok. To let them continue and call such immorality love is the antithesis of compassion. We are here trying to figure out how to communicate the love if Christ by helping those fallen into a deep dark hole of sexual confusion and immorality. . Rather than judge others, “Anonymous”, you should repent and know what real love and compassion really are.
wow Anonymous….then you have to look at who you really serve. Its not the same Jesus I know, for the real Jesus we know taught us about His natural law.
Jim I am impressed by your comments, you are a holy man! Keep it up!
You are judging the lives and loves of people you have never even met. That is disgusting.
So tell them their love is a lie and that two monogamous people are going to give each other diseases?
Excellent comments Jim! You are a true warrior!
If only people like anonymous would understand that this is true compassion and understanding. What we offer is REAL humanity because we care, because we are Christian. Dignity is not indulging in a sexual fetish that is dangerous to oneself and society. We respect you too much, Anonymous, to let you live what you think is love and family. We love you and want you to live a life that is devoted to God, not your base urges or what you think is a family. That’s not judgment, that’s Truth.
This is why I chimed in, homosexuals seem to think they are like us when it comes to sex and family.
How can we present this in a way that people won’t get so upset?
[…] Same sex marriage: the Church and the controversy – Contraception and no-fault divorce already represented a cultural definition of marriage. Dignity USA’s endorsement of “sacramental equality” drew support from another dissenting Catholic group, New Ways Ministry … […]