The Holy See is conducting a world-wide survey of the traditional Latin Mass focusing on whether celebrations of the Tridentine liturgy respond to genuine pastoral needs and are following guidelines.
The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith has written to the world’s bishops explaining that Pope Francis “wishes to be informed” about the application of Benedict XVI’s 2007 ruling which lifted restrictions on pre-Vatican II liturgical celebrations.
Along with the letter, the bishops are asked to respond to a series of questions aimed at gaining an accurate picture of how the Extraordinary Form of the Mass is celebrated across the world.
With his legal ruling “Summorum Pontificum”, Benedict XVI lifted restrictions on the old rite due to “the continued requests of these members of the faithful”, including young people, attached to this version of the Mass celebrated before the liturgical reforms of the Second Vatican Council.
It allowed for the wider use of the 1962 missal of John XXIII, which the bishops of the council had overwhelmingly voted in favour of reforming. These reforms were then implemented by Paul VI and completed in 1970.
There has long been debate about the level of demand for pre-Vatican II forms of worship, and there is scant evidence of any serious take-up outside of traditionalist hotspots in Europe, North America and some parts of Latin America.
Some devotees of the old rite have responded with alarm to the review with the Rorate Caeli site asking whether “the rights and continuity of the Traditional Latin Rite” are now under threat and whether the results may indicate “serious consequences”.
But Joseph Shaw, chairman of the Latin Mass Society of England and Wales, says he is optimistic about the doctrine congregation’s attitudes to the wider use of the Extraordinary Form.
“I do not view this survey as a threat, but simply as indicating a desire by the CDF to have solid information from around the world,” he told The Tablet….
The above comes from an April 24 story in The Tablet (U.K.)
Not a good sign from a pope who has described those who prefer the Latin Mass as “too strict”, with “a rigid attitude”.
A best-case scenario would if the survey showed that those who want to attend the TLM were able to do that without hardship and on a regularly scheduled basis. Then we can stop all the nonsense discussions about which is better, more holy, and more likely to get you closer to heaven. Both versions of the Mass are holy, catholic, and apostolic, or … Even if only one-half of one percent of the people want the TLM, the Bishops should provide it for them. That assumes they can find a priest who can read Latin.
With all the problems the church has , why is this now of concern , how about releasing the mccarrick Report , eliminating bad clerics and cleaning up your own house !. With the economic crisis and the ccp virus still with us, this is not a priority but from this former Vicar of Christ a distraction and a cruel attack. I don’t think a honest and transparent examination is possible and this is waste of time, money and what little moral authority this pontiff has left.
Kristin: Agreed!
Oh boy. The latinistas are going to start many conspiracy theories on this one. They need to relax. This is a survey…not an inquisition.
How would you know?
… and Jesus sent out the 72 disciples,
telling them: “Take a survey of the people – a public
opinion poll – so I can tell ’em what they want to hear.”
Love your comment. You made my day with your good humor. Nothing like starting the day with laughter. After all Pontius Pilate did take a survey at his praetorium, so it could not possibly be all that bad. (Said “tongue in cheek” of course.)
I was going to follow Fr. Z’s advice and keep quiet about it all, but could not resist a reply to you. Nevertheless, I have no fear. The TLM will go on in spite of it all. It is really a shame that many priest do not even know the language of their own rite.
In my last comment, I did not mean that Pope Francis was Pontius Pilate, just that surveys can be fooled with and turn out badly.
“There has long been debate about the level of demand for pre-Vatican II forms of worship, and there is scant evidence of any serious take-up outside of traditionalist hot spots in Europe, North America and some parts of Latin America.”?
Where does our CCD writer live; what does he or she read? And what is a “hot spot”? Perhaps a place where hearts burn with ardor? What this inquiry might better spend its time and Euros on would be to see how many NO Masses are being properly and reverently celebrated ad orientem and with chant instead of presided by Father Look at Me and Marty Haugen sing-song. .
Larry, with all due respect (I mean it), your comments are part of the problem. It is the snarky remarks from both sides of the aisle in the political world, and in the church world, they too from both sides of the aisle. The Mass is the Mass, in any of its forms. To think that the TLM and the NO are the only two forms acceptable in the Latin Rite is to ignore millions of Roman Catholics’ Sunday practices and think that our own is the only good one. Even some of the Orders have their own version of the Mass, all approved. Sometimes we try too hard to make Catholic faith a religion, rather than a faith practice. Our job is to develop a lasting relationship with Christ our Savior. It doesn’t matter much how we do it. Believe in the Lord, and you will be well on the road to saving your soul, no matter in which direction you face.
Bob One, I’m with Larry on this one. Too many priests “personalize” the Mass, there are too many breaks in the Mass (especially during the “Peace be with you” with people waving to others all over the church, flashing the “peace sign”), too much hand holding and singing “Here I am Lord” and “On angels Wings”. The priest facing the congregation has become an offering between you and me instead of a sacrifice of Jesus and offering to Our Father.
Yes, Novus Ordo Masses can be reverent. Having the priest ad orientem and eliminating all the nonsense I’ve stated above would help. Also, not having
5 lay people, in addition to the priest, distributing Holy Communion for 50-60 communicants. We might have more vocations to the priesthood if all “altar girls” were replaced with “altar boys”.
The TLM does not have all the nonsense that many NO Masses have.
I’m with you Peggy
I have long longed for a return to the Latin rite but I understand that others feel differently. It would be nice is parishes offered a Latin mass once a week. How about that for a resolution.
Folks like Larry just cannot imagine the plain fact that there will never be a stampede to the EF. I am saying this as someone who regularly attends the EF myself and loves it. Folks, the future of the Church is in the OF, reverently and devoutly offered, by reclaiming some of the elements of the rubrics from the TLM.
Jon, I and “Not My Mama” and others are still waiting for your answer as to if you agree with taking pagan idols into a Catholic church for worship as was done in the Vatican Gardens. I am not saying Pope Francis worshipped it, but he did allow it. Until then it is hard for some of us to trust you. I and many others do not want a Pachamama, nor a Jupiter nor a Venus nor any other pagan idol in our churches.
News alert to Anne TE: I do not comment here in order to earn your or any body else’s trust. I have nothing to prove to you or to anyone here, and no one should be made to feel “bullied” into commenting on demand. This is America people. It is up to any commenter here whether or not to lend their two cents. The veracity, validity, and truth of my comments and everyone else’s here stand on their own merits. Straight up.
I should have just said “I am still waiting”, as I do not know if “Not My Mama” stills posts here or reads the articles. If you are truthful and not the person I think you are, the answer should be easy — a straight unambiguous NO, but of course you are not going to say that.
Still here, but, obviously, jon, refuses to answer a simple question. Or, I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt and ask one more time: jon, do you think it was wrong to place idols inside of a Catholic church?
Anne TE, don’t hold your breath waiting for an answer. It appears he has intentions that he does not want to reveal. As you say, he could simply answer it. Yet, he claims being asked a question is “bullying” him. Maybe he’d be more comfortable in an Episcopalian church with a Harvey Milk icon.
Folks, you know you’ve won an argument when the other side has resorted to ridicule and mockery. God bless Pope Francis, and God have mercy on Anne TE and “Not My Mama.”
Folks listen to jon , beter still read his past postings he is well versed in mockery, ridicule and fallacies. Viva Vigano, release the mccarrick report !.
Traditionalist love a good conspiracy theory.
Oh, who was it that said there was a large “right wing” conspiracy against her husband? Oh, yes. Hillary Clinton.
Progressives love conspiracy theories too, even ones that aren’t good ones. The Catholic Church doesn’t ordain women because its male leaders think women are inferior. If Trump becomes president, federal agents will kick your door in and take away your birth control. Oh, wait, that didn’t happen. Well, if Kavanaugh stays on the Supreme Court, that will happen. The Republican Party is responsible for human-caused global warming, I mean, climate change. (Of course, the Communist Chinese have nothing to do with it.) Newsom, Cuomo and Biden are Catholics and they’re being silenced because they’re for equality and care about everyone. Right-wing American bishops and the Koch brothers are responsible for stopping Pope Francis from bringing about world harmony. It seems a lot of people like conspiracy theories.
jon Straight up I agree , no commenter should be bullied , I would add no one should be insulted or subject to a purity standard that they themselves will not abide by i.e. criticizing someones anonymity while maintaining your own. The veracity, validity and truth on their own merits, again yes, a respectful tone and avoiding ad hominum and other fallacious reasoning also should be used . Look at the exchanges on this post and others , adults exchanging views in a intelligent respectful way , jon your previous posts AND ABUSE OF THE CAPS LOCK are well known on this site . To me your posts are examples of your hubris and insecurities , I don’t dislike you jon , when I see your posts it amuses me , and teaches me how not to present my arguments.Bless your heart !.
This survey is concerning to those who prefer to worship God no differently than our Catholic ancestors … especially those of us who remember being herded into Indult Mass ghettos or consigned to the outer wilderness of SSPX chapels. We remember the persecutions.
No surveys were conducted before the leftist hijackers of Vatican II rammed through Sacrosanctum Concilium’s “weaponized ambiguities” in 1962. Nobody asked the faithful if they wanted or needed a new Mass. They knew the answer they’d get if they did.
I say the Ordinary Form has brought a great advantage with respect to the prayer of the people (notwithstanding the obvious liturgical abuses that have crept in some places). For one thing — and this is something that these Vatican II-denigrators will never admit to — the Ordinary Form has brought to the lips of the People of God the beautiful ancient prayers of the Catholic Faith: The Gloria, the Agnus Dei, the Sanctus, the Creed — in their OWN TONGUE! The Mass of Pope St. Paul VI GAVE these prayers to the lay people: it’s not only the priest who gets to say these ancient prayers, or the choir, but ALL of the people of God gets to offer these beautiful prayers. Thank God for Vatican II!
jon , a respectful question ,why were the three Hail Marys, The Hail Holy Queen , and the St. Michael prayers eliminated after the OF mass ?. Could their restoration to the OF mass increase reverence and mitigate some criticism ?. Again have asked this respectfully, looking forward to your response in kind, if you are so moved to do so.
Rick W., a few respectful questions: Where in the “Missale Romanum” of 1962 does it say to offer three Hail Marys, the Hail Holy Queen, and the St. Michael prayers after TLM? Do you not know that the Leonine prayers were already discontinued officially by the Holy See in 1962, although this was not being followed in some places? Also, do you forget that the HIGHEST form of prayer is itself the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and not the St. Michael Prayer, as good and beneficial as this prayer is? Plus do you not know that there is no prohibition for the laity nor for the priest to offer on their own these prayers after the Ordinary Form?