The following comes from a June 17 story on RealClearReligion.com.
Rand Paul should read Donald Rumsfeld’s new book Rumsfeld’s Rules. He might learn a thing or two.
Like when to say: “I don’t know.” Leaders who offer observations with absolute certainty, my old boss warns, “are setting [themselves] up to be proved wrong.”
In a speech to the Faith & Freedom Coalition, the junior Senator from Kentucky sure asked for it. Paul, a rumored Presidential hopeful, took the opportunity to address Ralph Reed’s evangelicals about the plight of Middle East Christians and the dangers of “pre-emptive war.”
The so-called Arab Spring has “become an Arab winter” for Christians. Worse, Paul says, by sending aid to Egypt‘s Muslim Brotherhood, “your government, or more correctly, you, the taxpayer, are funding” a “war on Christianity.”
Perhaps Paul is on to something there. We ought to be extra cautious when sending aid to Syrian rebels, as many of them are jihadists and now, even Iranian Revolutionary Guards. But what is the alternative? Should the United States sit idly by as Syrian thug Bashar al-Assad gasses his own people? Tragically, it seems Paul might say yes.
“We must and should stand with our fellow Christians in the Middle East,” but, Paul says, that doesn’t “mean arming sides in every conflict.”
Why not? Jesus wouldn’t do it: “I can recall no utterance of Jesus in favor of war or any acts of aggression,” according to Paul. “I simply can’t imagine Jesus at the head of any army of soldiers and I think as Christians we need to be wary of the doctrine of pre-emptive war.”
Has Rand read Revelation? There’s that whole part about The Word of God on a white horse whose “mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron” (19:11-16). Or in Ecclesiastes where there is a “time for war and a time for peace” (3:8).
Paul the Presbyterian might think an exercise like this of exchanging Bible verses is productive, but Christianity is better than that. It has a just war tradition. Should Paul know anything about Augustine or Aquinas, he would know that war is sometimes necessary and a moral obligation.
Aquinas quotes Augustine approvingly that a just war is “one that avenges wrongs, when a nation or state has to be punished, for refusing to make amends for the wrongs inflicted by its subjects, or to restore what it has seized unjustly.” Even the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, in its 1993 statement, defined casus belli where force may be employed to “correct a grave, public evil.”
Perhaps Paul should also read George Weigel’s First Things primer on how pre-emption is simply another word for defense — and defense, after all, fits perfectly within the just war tradition….
To read entire article, click here.
Just War Theory is great, when a regional State or Nation is threatening, e.g. Iran consistently threatening Israel. But is it really relevant when many millions of various Jihad-types are within us, and around us, as well as “over there”? How do you prosecute a Just War against individuals loosely associated, who have sworn destruction against us but have proven to be severely destructive and warlike, even in small groups?
More precisely: Just War theory as currently articulated offers few clues as to how to wage war against non-state agents, in the current case from a part of the world where the idea of “state” is far less important in defining allegiances than “tribe” or “sect”.
This article by Nicholas G Hahn III is superficial and sophomoric on the
Syrian war.
His interpretation of the the just war princples is superficial.
The two wars entered into by Rumsfeld have been a waste of time,good men, and treasure.They have been a disaster.
wow… this article is epic at underestimating the big picture here. I want my 2 min back!!!
Just wars have always been legitimate according to the Catholic Church. If there had not been the Crusades, Europe would have become a Moslem state (even though it is becoming one now), If a nation attacks , the other nation has a duty to fight back. But for an unjust reason to go to war, that is immoral. The Korean, Vietnam, and the latest Arab war’s have been unjust, because the United States was never attacked, and secondly, the victors were the enemies of the United States (we did not fight to win, but to gain money from the contractors). Because of our fighting with the Moslems, we had 9-11, and most likely a million Christians have died in Iraq and Egypt. Pope John Paul II begged us not to go to war, but the war hawks demanded we do so. I suggest any one who is interested to read what Patrick Buchannan has said repeatedly on this subject.
My Korean relatives would mightily disagree with your assertion that the Korean War was unjust. Can you imagine the entire Peninsula ruled by the pinhead in Pyongyang? Even while inconclusive it led to a prosperous, democratic South Korea that could become the second Christian nation in East Asia (after the Philippines) and safeguarded a democratic (and still non-nuclear) Japan. As for Islam: it has never needed an excuse to attack outsiders, only opportunity and some charismatic crazy de jour to lead it.
The attainment of material benefits from war is a clause of “just war” with which I am unfamiliar.
Kindly explain that point to my Korean aunt and cousins, Anonymous.
For my family the calculus of the Korean War was not so favorable. Before we attempt a global cost-benefit analysis, perhaps we should agree that justice is not whatever we think best benefits us.
Not to get off the subject but I noticed that this website did not announce this:
from Bishop Flores: “Come pray with me this Thursday” ~ Bishop Flores
Come pray with me this Thursday on the Eve of the Fortnight for Freedom. Come pray for our religious freedom, for the sanctity of life and marriage, for our nation…
Let us come together in prayer, as one family
in and through our Creator.
Eve of Fortnight for Freedom
Thursday June 20, 2013
6:30pm-8:30pm,
St Pius X Catholic Church in Chula Vista.
1120 Cuyamaca Avenue, Chula Vista, 91911
Hope to see you. God bless you.
Please invite your family and friends.
For more information contact the Office for Social Ministry
at 858-490-8324
That was announced from Helpers of God’s Precious Infants San Diego
It wasn’t advertised enough or the word was not out on time and I just barely found out about it. So I missed it but I wanted to show that this bishop is doing something positive in the right direction. I hope it went well.
Abeca, you can check the calendar on this site for upcoming events. The event you missed has been posted on the calendar since June 4.
jcross thank you, I haven’t thought about that one…
Abeca rather than inserting non-related items, send your info to CCD care of their “send news tips” in their heading at the very top of their home page.
That is good too but I just thought I could also post in case someone had attended or knew about it…sorry for the non related item..I guess I goofed, how many times do we all tend to bring up non related stuff…lol….but I do appreciate you encouraging me to do that…will try to remember next time….blessings
Abeca,
Prayer is wonderful, but what is Bishop Flores doing about the Satanic Elephant in his back yard, USD?
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
That is true Mr. Fisher, I think he is our fairly new Bishop so I can’t really say how strong he is as of yet….I understand your frustration. We will have to see what he does…if he isn’t already..
The author would have us arm Al Qaeda affiliated rebels in Syria as if that would be in our best interest. We should leave that whole mess alone, as it’s another situation in which we cannot serve America’s interest by supporting either side. Watch as Iraq descends into the seventh century as we leave. That region is a place we cannot understand. We’re barely civilized ourselves any more. Facts have to enter into the decisions we make, and this is a good place to begin finding new ways to mess things up. Insanity is repeating the same mistakes expecting a better result each time.
I could not agree more. The Muslim Brotherhood and it’s Islamist allies have their fingerprints all over the turmoil in the Mideast. Our national interest is best served by supporting Israel and taking swift, punitive action against those who attack us, and then leaving. Nation-building attempts have failed in these tribal cultures. Sarah Palin recently said it best: “Let Allah sort it out”
Good job Ted and Fred.
Fred,
Israel is a very wealthy nation, why should we a poorer and poorer nation send our hard earned dollars to them. Did they ever even offer to pay damages for the CLEARLY MARKED US NAVY SHIP THEY ATTACKED? The Skipper was, I think he passed away, a Catholic and friend to my friends the Englers. That ship was brutally attacked in International Waters!
The same sentiment can be and should be applied to our Military costly presence in such “friendly countries” as France, Itally, etc. etc. ad nauseam.
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
I agree with Mr, Fisher!
Agreed. Gentlemen, agreed.
My post June 23 at 10:48 am was posted too fast since Kenneth did make a good point, especially since now since an Israeli company was to sell us the abortion pill.
The Obama Administration can not be trusted to know right from wrong.
In only one instance, this is evidenced by their arming Drug Cartels in Mexico (Fast and Furious) and trying to blame law abiding American gun owners.
The ‘Party of Death’ is in power – White House and Senate.
Once weapons are provided to one side or another within a Country, there is no guarantee that those weapons will not be confiscated and used by the other side.
CATECHISM of the CATHOLIC CHURCH, Second Edition – – –
QUOTE – – CCC: ” 2309 The strict conditions for legitimate defense by military force require rigorous consideration. The gravity of such a decision makes it subject to rigorous conditions of moral legitimacy. At one and the SAME time:
– the damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations must be lasting, grave, and certain;
– all other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective;
– there must be serious prospects of success;
– the use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated. The power of modem means of destruction weighs very heavily in evaluating this condition.
These are the traditional elements enumerated in what is called the “just war” doctrine.
The evaluation of these conditions for moral legitimacy belongs to the prudential judgment of those who have responsibility for the common good. ” – – UNQUOTE
When it comes to “life” issues, Presbyterian Paul Rand is more moral and more “Catholic” than Catholics – Nancy Pelosi, John Kerry, Joe Biden, and some others.
This is based upon their public statements and their public voting records.
Revelation in the Bible reflects the end of the world as we know it, where people will be punished for their sins.
During His lifetime, Jesus did not advocate the waging of war.
I think whoever wrote this article needs to go back and read the Bible again.
Sometimes Protestants know more about the Bible than many Catholics. Catholics have been lazy in reading Holy Scripture at home, and they only get small bits and pieces at Sunday Mass.
BTW – I would put very little stock in anything put out by the USCCB. We all know that they do their own thing. Sometimes they adhere to the CCC, and sometimes they don’t.
Arming the Muslim Brotherhood is insane. They are a ‘Sharia Law’ group – that will strictly enforce Islam with everyone else being infidels (evil).
The Brotherhood’s stated goal is to instill the Qur’an and Sunnah as the “sole reference point for …ordering the life of the Muslim family, individual, community … and state.”
The organization seeks to make Muslim countries become Islamic caliphates and to isolate women and non-Muslims from public life.
The movement is also known for engaging in political violence. They were responsible for creating Hamas, a U.S. designated terrorist organization, who grew to infamy for its suicide bombings of Israelis during the first and second intifada.
Muslim brotherhood members are suspected to have assassinated political opponents like Egyptian Prime Minister Mahmoud an-Nukrashi Pasha. “
They also openly profess their drive to turn the US into a Caliphate. My answer to them is “VIVA CRISTO REY!’
I strongly urge all true believers to read their Koran. It is very difficult reading, and it took me years to finish it, but I am glad I did. We need to know how our enemies think, and we need to educate our clerics, including the Pope, on the clear dangers they present.
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
Unpleasant things are not avoided merely by decrying them as unpleasant. Lepanto was a pre-emptive strike on the Turkish fleet led by Pope St. Pius V. A pre-emptive strike on the Germans when they reoccupied the Rhineland against treaty obligations could have forestalled WWII. I agree with Paul in the specific case of Syria (as I did with Iraq), but I doubt categorical responses to the problem of unjust aggression are a help.
Rand Paul is well aware of the Christian tradition of Just War. If Syria meets the Just War standard…that must be the just war standard you learned from Rumsfeld and not Saint Augustine!
Rumsfeld has not had any US authority since his resignation in late 2006.
Do not blame others for Obama and his Administration.
Everyone has to take responsibility for their own actions.
Giving arms to the Muslim Brotherhood in Syria (or anywhere else) does not meet the just war standard.
It merely spreads more atrocities against freedom.
Barrack Obama will always side with Islamic countries over any other country, even our’s! Read his “auto biographies”. Just like Adolf Hitler wrote what he would do in Mein Kampf and Karl Marx and Freidrich Engeles wrote in the Communist Manifesto. Obama says what he is all about in his books and speeches. Fundamentalist Muslims have had close ties with the Nazis and Marxists Communists. Have you heard of the saying “The enemy of my enemy is my friend.”
There’s the problem, Ladies and Gents; there’s the problem. Suzanne hit the nail on the head.
“Pre-emption is simply another word for defense,” except that two popes disagreed with Mr. Weigel.
That this tripe was published by CCD is disappointing. Those who would prefer the judgements of Donald Rumsfield over John Paul II demonstrate their own woeful judgement.
The author of the article is living in the past. The current Secretary of Defense is Chuck Hagel; prior to that Leon Panetta; prior to that Robert Gates. Both Hagel and Panetta were appointed by OBAMA.
However, most posters are correct that Rand Paul has got it right, not the author of the article.
Fred’s post says it best. – ” I could not agree more. The Muslim Brotherhood and it’s Islamist allies have their fingerprints all over the turmoil in the Mideast.
Our national interest is best served by supporting Israel and taking swift, punitive action against those who attack us, and then leaving. Nation-building attempts have failed in these tribal cultures. Sarah Palin recently said it best: “Let Allah sort it out” “.
In these matters, no one still on earth is infallible, including or maybe even especially the Popes!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
The concept of a “just war” is an absurdity it itself. We are beating each other up over whether and how we should defend ourselves and our western civilization against an enemy totally unrestrained by any recognizable internationally agreed-upon precept of fairness. People who strap bombs on their children to inflict maximum pain and suffering upon innocent civilians are demonstrably a breed apart. The niceties and bromides used among westerners are totally inapplicable in the war on Islamic terror. The age of Clausewitz is over! The rules of modern war are simple: There are no rules any more! Islam is plunging the world into chaos and barbarism. Wake up!
Mr. Siedel, do you suppose Just War was developed duRing some wonderfully pacific, yet unrecorded, period of history, or that it was ever followed by its enemies? Catholicism is to be followed by Catholics, are you not one?
Brian: Throughout recorded history there has never been a wonderfully pacific period. War is the natural state of things, peace the exception. My point was that quibbling about “just” vs “unjust” wars is a waste of time. Islam has been the aggressor since Tarik invaded Spain in the 8th century.
The Muslim armies were within earshot of Paris in 732. Their conquest of the Holy Land precipitated the crusades. Their aggression never ended. Taking advantage of the reformation in central Europe they conquered the Balkans. Twice they stood at the gates of Vienna. They are still bent on creating a worldwide Caliphate. The latest Jihad began long before 9/11. It will continue as long as we argue amongst ourselves whether the use of drones is justified or not. Wake up, for Heaven’s Sake!!!
My description of the past – when Just War Theory as developed – as “pacific” was sarcasm. Like all Catholic doctrine, it was developed in and for the real world. Calling it an “absurdity”, as you do, is preposterous.
Anonymous: Why don’t you try to convince the ayatollahs to abide by “just war” principles? That is why I call any talk about “just war” it an absurdity. This war is not fought under the principles established by mutual agreement like the Geneva Convention. These butchers don’t care a whit for such “infidel” sensitivities. They are playing western liberals for the fools they are.
When “just war” does not apply we move to “self defense”
CCC: ” 2264 Love toward oneself remains a fundamental principle of morality. Therefore it is legitimate to insist on respect for one’s own right to life. Someone who defends his life is not guilty of murder even if he is forced to deal his aggressor a lethal blow:
If a man in self-defense uses more than necessary violence, it will be unlawful: whereas if he repels force with moderation, his defense will be lawful. . . .
Nor is it necessary for salvation that a man omit the act of moderate self-defense to avoid killing the other man, since one is bound to take more care of one’s own life than of another’s. ”
CCC: ” 2308 All citizens and all governments are obliged to work for the avoidance of war.
However, “as long as the danger of war persists and there is no international authority with the necessary competence and power, governments cannot be denied the right of lawful self-defense, once all peace efforts have failed.”
As Mr. Fisher stated, everyone should read the Koran (Quran) which is used along with the Hadith to interpret Sharia Law
Most Americans do not know or understand Islam and its requirements upon its members.
(It seems that Rand Paul understands.)
Mr. Seidel, your misunderstanding and disavowal of just war is staggering. The characterization of it as prompted by present day “western liberals” can only make sense for those who do not share the Catholic faith which developed it.
Just war is also not dependent upon mutual agreement, and it is not for the benefit of our enemies that we are to abide by it, but our own. As for trying to “convince the ayatollahs”, why would I try when you – a Catholic, I suppose – insist on denigrating our shared heritage? In this, you choose to share the opinion of the ayatollahs, and to reject the teaching of the Church.