The following comes from a November 6 Angelus article:
Archbishop José H. Gomez invites the public to attend the celebration of three auxiliary bishops’ installations as episcopal vicars of their pastoral regions.
Bishop Robert Barron will be installed as episcopal vicar of the Santa Barbara Region on Nov. 21 at 6:30 p.m. The Mass will take place at Mission San Buenaventura, 211 E Main St., Ventura.
Bishop David G. O’Connell will be installed as episcopal vicar of the San Gabriel Region on Nov. 22 at 11:15 a.m. The Mass will take place at Mission San Gabriel, 428 S Mission Dr., San Gabriel.
Bishop Joseph V. Brennan will be installed as episcopal vicar of the San Fernando Region on Dec. 19 at 3 p.m. The Mass will take place at St. Charles Borromeo, 10800 Moorpark St., North Hollywood.
The Masses for the installation of Bishop Robert Barron and Bishop David O’Connell will also honor St. Junípero Serra’s recent canonization.
Perhaps someone attending the consecration ,afterwards can ask bishop-elect David G. O’Connell if he now renounces his position on women’s ordination (cf. Ordinatio Sacerdotalis).
Please read for yourself the 6/22/2002 LA Times article written by Mary McNamara (which is partly cited in this story by CCD) in which “Bp.” O’Connell stated “..Women should be ordained and clergy should be able to marry.” (He asserted this as a supposed remedy to the abuse crisis.) “If there had been some parents in there running things,” he inferred, it wouldn’t have happened. He has never corrected that position regarding pro-ordination of women and married clergy.
By the way, I noticed his Wikipedia site has now scrubbed the reference to O’Connell’s previously stated position on women’s ordination and to the above-referenced LA Times article—proving once again that what appears in our comments in Cal-Catholic Daily is closely, closely e-mailed back-and-forth in California diocese chancery offices (I already knew that: thought others would want to know).
“…proving once again that what appears in our comments in Cal-Catholic Daily is closely, closely e-mailed back-and-forth in California diocese chancery offices.”
There’s absolutely no doubt about it. If one wants to keep the name ‘Catholic’ on one’s header, one must be careful not to report too much or be too fair/balanced. I noticed no reporting of Bishop Athanasius Schneider’s statements nor Bishop Merlino’s clarifications. Pretty interesting and yet understandable. Controlling the media to include a promotional of appearing on top of a particular crisis to establish ‘good will’ is a classic tactic.
The Chancery man watcheth…. and tosseth the occasional bone.
Steve, I read the four page article to which you refer. Taking into context the entire article, which is an excellent portrayal of a typical day in the life of a Priest, it is hard to think that the statement about woman ordination was anything but an example of his humor. Did he say it, yes. Was it meant as a specific recommendation, no. Some of us have got to lighten up. Besides, when is the last time a reporter really got the story correct in every aspect. Having said that, however, he might be right that things would be a lot better if we listened to the women more often.
“Humor,” O”Connell’s comments about the abuse crisis? Really, you find that to be his expression of “humor,” Bob One? Is that a humorous topic?
Just another example of an utterly ludicrous explaining away of a solid fact, re. his clearly stated position on pro-women’s ordination and then a married clergy. Fr. Charamsa wants to be this kind of married clergy, and this is where this is all going.
But, Bob One, you are already on record as opposing Ordinatio Sacerdotalis (2000) and in favor of women’s ordination, so you do realize you have broken with Church teaching, yes?
Here is what appears to be the article you cited in which you claim the Bishop elect said things about women’s ordination. Funny, I can’t find any such reference within the text. Surely you would never provide a reference and then claim that a text says something that it does not.
https://articles.latimes.com/2002/jun/22/local/me-priest22
LA Times, 6/22/2002, reporter Mary McNamara interview of Bp-elect David G. O’Connell, p. 3: McNamara quotes O’Connell:
“Parishioners, the priest [= O’Connell] says, should have more say in the running of their churches. Women should be ordained and clergy should be able to marry. “If there had been some parents in there running things,” he says, “none of this would have ever happened.”
Our Fellow Uncareful-Reading Catholic doesn’t read very carefully.
Liars accuse truthful people of lying. It’s Old Hat.
Those words do not appear at the link I provided. If you have another link – please show it. Otherwise it appears you are making up a lie.
This is your technique. You seem to provide evidence for a sketchy statement, but if you actually GO to the source and READ what it says, one finds that the source doesn’t say what Steve Phoenix says it says.
Go. click on the link. Read for yourself that there is zero reference to women being priests in the article by McNamara on that date in the LA Times. https://articles.latimes.com/2002/jun/22/local/me-priest22
The lines are on p. 3 in the link in the story by the LA times. You aren’t reading carefully, and you are a false accuser. The quotes I took from the very p. 3 of the story.
Since anyone else can read it and see it, you are apparently blinded by your own fury.
Thank you Steve Phoenix. The Diocese of Orange, Ca. is also allowing guests speakers to underhandedly promote women’s ordination at a wealthy parish. Using “mercy” as the Trojan Horse in order to undermine Church teaching while fleecing money from wealthy and trusting sheep.
Please see November 22 bulletin at Our Lady of Mt. Carmel, Newport Beach. Scroll down, First, Fr. Heft S.M. and now Fr. Felix Just S.J.
https://www.olmc.net/
https://catholicsandheretics.blogspot.com/2010/08/support-for-women-ordination-in-diocese.html
continued….
Fr. Felix Just S.J. is scheduled to speak at Our Lady of Mount Carmel, Newport Beach, Ca. on December 10 th. The talk is billed “What is so special about the Year of Mercy” just like their last talk was billed on Pope Francis by Fr. Heft S. M. The true platform is to push women to be ordained priests, with several audience members setting up the questions for women to be made priests. Fr Felix Just S. J. supports and promotes women ordination and he is local working in the Orange diocese. He is also a regular speaker at the Religious Education Congress in Anaheim.
https://catholicsandheretics.blogspot.com/2010/08/support-for-women-ordination-in-diocese.html
Years ago, when Fr. Just was first starting out at a Well-Known Jesuit Institution of Learning, I encountered him, and he was a relatively thinking-with-the-Church JP2 type of person.
Now, Catherine, reading your-as-usual informative links,.. well, they speak for themselves. It seems that almost every Jesuit has come completely unmoored from any semblance of even what the CCC teaches, and is out voyaging on their own. This fits perfectly with Bob One’s view that appears to euphorically believe that many (all?) will be saved.
If Bob One is right, then nothing matters, just cross out the 10 commandments, go live a Hollywood life. But if Catherine is right, we are all in a hell of a lot of trouble. Literally.
I invite everyone else (other than our fellow blinded Catholic) to go to p. 3 of the story, where then-Fr. O’Connell makes his statement in favor of women’s ordination and married priesthood, as well:
LA Times. https://articles.latimes.com/2002/jun/22/local/me-priest22
It’s getting eerie, what some people are blind to.
Here, let me help you out, fellow unseeing one, but you are making this painful for your gross error: top of p. 3, very first lines are where then-Fr. David O’Connell pronounces his support for women’s ordination and a married priesthood:
“Parishioners, the priest [Fr. O’Connell] says, should have more say in the running of their churches. Women should be ordained and clergy should be able to marry. “If there had been some parents in there running things,” he says, “none of this would have ever happened.”
—-June 22, 2002|MARY McNAMARA | LA TIMES STAFF WRITER
PAGE 3. I thought paragraph 3, not seeing that there was more than one page to the article (which list was hidden under an ad).
I apologise.
The majority of child molesters ARE parents, step parents, or boyfriends. What about teachers? Coaches? Boy Scout leaders? The majority are parents, and/or work with parents. Yet there is a much higher rate of sexual abuse in those settings, than in the Church. [We are now seeing one FEMALE teacher after another charged with sexual abuse!]. I was sexually abused [in a Public School], by a married man, with two daughters[I am male]. The school covered this up[1972], and I found out this pervert molested AT LEAST five other boys, yet retired on good terms from the school district. At least the Church cleaned things up, the schools have not done half as much.
“Bishop-elect”? He was ordained a bishop in early September, Steve.
If you wish to be ‘strain-out-the-gnat, swallow-the-camel-technical,’ caritas, a bishop is consecrated, not “ordained”. I used the term “bishop-elect” to refer to his statements prior to his consecration that are pro-women’s ordination and pro-married clergy as well as “bishop-elect” being technically prior to his installation.
Did you get the point, cariats, that O’Connell has been on record on these matters, has never made a public retraction, and yet he was incorporated into the “fullness of priesthood” (Lumen Gentium 21), even tho’ he has broken with official teaching in Ordination Sacerdotalis?
I hope so. It is getting harder and harder today to apply the fish-gall (the symbol of Christ and the…
…gall (the symbol of Christ and the truth) in order to have the scales fall from their eyes and remove their blindness (Tobit 6-8).
Wrong again, Steve: the proper usage is “ORDAINED a bishop”, “ORDINATION to the episcopacy”, etc. It’s good to know what you’re talking about before you lecture others.
As you wish, charitable “caritas”…
“Episcopal ordination—fullness of the sacrament of Holy Orders”, uses “episcopal consecration” as a synonymous term, using “episcopal ordination” and “episcopal consecration” interchangeably. (CCC nn. 1556–1558)
Prior to Vatican II, consecration was the exclusive term. However, since now in the New Church, anything goes.
I hope that Roger Mahoney (ex-cardinal, disgraced archbishop) will not take part in any of these ceremonies. After he retired (he should have been in prison for protecting priests who molested children, costing the Diocese millions) he was supposed to be excluded from public religious ceremonies, but somehow, occasionally, he slips in.
Like it or not, Cdl Mahony is not an ex-cardinal as you state. In fact, he voted in the last consistory that elected Pope Francis.
LA Times, 6/22/2002, reporter Mary McNamara interview of Bp-elect David G. O’Connell, p. 3, McNamara quotes O’Connell:
“Parishioners, the priest [= O’Connell] says, should have more say in the running of their churches. Women should be ordained and clergy should be able to marry. “If there had been some parents in there running things,” he says, “none of this would have ever happened.”
[Our Fellow Uncareful-Reading Catholic doesn’t read very carefully. And liars accuse truthful people of lying. It’s Old Hat.]
And don’t forget about Barron – who teaches that “we can reasonably hope that ALL men are saved” –
in OPPOSITION to the words of GOD in Mt 7:13-14; and Lk13:23-28 who stated that “Many” will NOT be Saved, “FEW” will be saved.
The Vatican must do a much better job vetting those Priests who deserve to become Bishops.
Contrast “we can reasonably hope that ALL men are saved” to the reality of God’s words and the words of this magnificent example of an apostle needed in our times.
A Very Special Patron: Saint Anthony Mary Claret
Great Among the Greatest Apostles -Saint Anthony Mary Claret
“I am driven,” Antonio Claret wrote in his autobiography, “to preach without ceasing by the sight of the throngs of souls who are falling into hell. . . . Woe is me if I do not, for they could hold me responsible for their damnation!”
https://catholicism.org/anthony-claret.html
continued…..
Great Among the Greatest Apostles -Saint Anthony Mary Claret
This explains the compulsion of the man widely spoken of in his time as “the greatest preacher of the day.” But it does not account for how he made moral conversions by the thousands wherever he went. When asked the secret of his missionary success, the saint answered: “I pray to Our Lady and demand results of Her.”
“But what if She does not give them?” “Then I take hold of the hem of Her robe and refuse to let go until She has granted me what I want!”
https://catholicism.org/anthony-claret.html
The Bible tells us that it will be hard to get through the narrow-gate. But it also tells us that those who follow Christ and His teachings will be few compared to those who don’t follow His teachings. Luke also tells us that we should strive to be among those who make it to heaven. That doesn’t mean, in any form, that it is wrong to hope that many will be among the few. Don’t we all strive for heaven. Do we not pray, in the Mass, for people to make it to heaven? To make an issue of a Priest/ now Bishop hoping that we all get to heaven is getting pretty weird. Don’t we want many to be among the few?
Bob One, You sound just like William Thomas Walsh below.
Father Lombardi, founder of the “Movement for a Better World”, visited Sister Lucia on October 13, 1953 [according to Father Alonso, this interview took place on February 7, 1954]. He got around to questioning her on the subject of hell. The conversation is worth quoting: ““Do you really believe that many people go to hell? I myself hope that God will save the greater number (I wrote the same thing in a book entitled, The Salvation of the Unbeliever).” “Many are those who are lost.” “Certainly the world is a cesspool of vices… But there is always hope of salvation.” “No, Father, many are lost.””
continued…..
continued..
“In a letter to a young man tempted to leave his seminary, three times she (Sister Lucia) recalled to him the grave danger of falling into hell. Here is how she ends her plea to the young man to remain faithful to his vocation: “Do not be surprised that I speak to you so much about hell. This is one truth that it is necessary to recall often in these times, because we forget that souls are falling into hell in droves. Why? All the sacrifices that you make so as not to go there, and to prevent many others from going there—will you not find them well worth it?” Sister Lucy does not elaborate, nor does she add anything to these words.
continued…
continued
“In Sister Lucia’s conversation with William Thomas Walsh, the latter laid a “trap” for her—the thorny theological question of the number of the elect. It came in the form of a question: ““Our Lady showed you many souls going to hell. Did you get the impression from her that more souls are damned than saved?” This amused her a little. “I saw those that were going down. I didn’t see those that were going up.”” What wisdom in this response! It is not for us to compare and make this calculation.”
continued…
continued..
Sister Lucia responded, “We must be content with what God wants us to know, and with what Our Lady recalls to us so insistently: “Many are those who are lost”, and at the end of their life of sin, they fall into this “ocean of fire” which is hell.”
Follow and adhere to the words of GOD / JESUS, not false teachers.
You will find the words of God in Sacred Scripture, and Doctrine of the Faith in the CCC.
JESUS is NOT a LIAR.
“MANY” will NOT be saved; “FEW” will be saved. – JESUS
Mt 7:13-14, Lk 13:23-28.
Bob One, we all hope many are saved: however, let’s take into account what Our Lord states:
“Enter by the narrow gate..for many will try to enter and will not be able to do so.” (Mt. 7:13) Does this mean that many will be saved? Sounds the opposite.
Also, consider this, from S. Leonard of Port Maurice (d. 1751), Sermon, part I (from Opere Completa di S Leonardo, 5 vol.), “On the Fewness of Those Saved: “ After stating clearly “pious souls may leave”, that his words are intended for others, S. Leonard says:
S. Gregory: “Many attain to faith, but few to the heavenly kingdom.” S. Anselm, “There are few who are saved.” S. Augustine states even more clearly, “Therefore, few are saved in comparison to those who are damned.”
Or this also from the same sermon of S. Leonard, regarding the fewness of those saved:
“The most terrifying, however, is S. Jerome. At the end of his life, in the presence of his disciples, he spoke these dreadful words: “Out of one hundred thousand people whose lives have always been bad, you will find barely one who is worthy of indulgence.”
“ S. Peter says, “This ark was the figure of the Church,” while S. Augustine adds, “And these eight people who were saved signify that very few Christians are saved, because there are very few who sincerely renounce the world, and those who renounce it only in words do not belong to the mystery represented by that ark.”
The whole sermon is worth reading. Over and…
over, as I do, and I bet as Catherine, Ann Malley, Canisius perhaps, and many others do:
https://catholicapologetics.info/modernproblems/ecumenism/fewsave.htm