The following comes from a Nov. 5 story by Francis X. Rocca in Catholic San Francisco.
A month after closing a Synod of Bishops on the family stirred by controversy over divorce, same-sex unions and other nonmarital relationships, Pope Francis will open an interreligious conference dedicated to traditional marriage.
The Vatican-sponsored gathering, on the Complementarity of Man and Woman, will take place Nov. 17-19 and feature more than 30 speakers representing 23 countries and various Christian churches, as well as Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism, Taoism and Sikhism.
The conference will aim to “examine and propose anew the beauty of the relationship between the man and the woman, in order to support and reinvigorate marriage and family life for the flourishing of human society,” according to organizers.
Archbishop Charles Chaput of Philadelphia and the Rev. Rick Warren, senior pastor of Saddleback Church in California, will be among the participants.
Other Americans at the conference will include Russell D. Moore, president of the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission of the Southern Baptist Convention; Henry B. Eyring, president and a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints; and Mercy Sister Prudence Allen, former chair of the philosophy department at St. John Vianney Theological Seminary in Denver, whom Pope Francis named to the International Theological Commission in September.
Other notable speakers will include Lord Jonathan Sacks, former chief rabbi of Great Britain, and Anglican Bishops N.T. Wright and Michael Nazir-Ali.
Pope Francis will address the conference and preside over its first morning session Nov. 17, following remarks by Cardinal Gerhard Muller, prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.
The conference was an initiative of Cardinal Muller, who proposed it to Pope Francis in November 2013, according to Helen Alvare, a professor at George Mason University School of Law in Virginia, who is handling press relations for the event.
The conference is officially sponsored by the doctrinal congregation, and co-sponsored by the pontifical councils for Promoting Christian Unity, for Interreligious Dialogue and for the Family. The heads of all four Curia offices are scheduled to address the assembly.
Topics of lectures and videos will include “The Cradle of Life and Love: A Mother and Father for the World’s Children” and “The Sacramentality of Human Love According to St. John Paul II.”
Given its timing and subject matter, the conference is likely to invite comparisons with the Oct. 5-19 synod on the family. Several conference participants have already commented publicly on the earlier event.
One of the synod’s most discussed topics was a proposal by German Cardinal Walter Kasper to make it easier for divorced and civilly remarried Catholics to receive Communion. Cardinal Muller was a leading opponent of that proposal.
Archbishop Chaput told an audience in New York Oct. 20 that he had been “very disturbed” by press reports of last month’s synod, saying, “I think confusion is of the devil, and I think the public image that came across was of confusion,” though he added: “I don’t think that was the real thing there.” The archbishop will play host to the September 2015 World Meeting of Families, which Pope Francis is widely expected to attend.
Rev. Warren was one of 48 Christian ministers and scholars who signed an open letter to Pope Francis and the synod fathers in September, urging the assembly to defend traditional marriage, among other ways, by supporting efforts to “restore legal provisions that protect marriage as a conjugal union of one man and one woman.”
Moore, of the Southern Baptist Convention, wrote a blog post in response to the synod’s controversial midterm report, which used remarkably conciliatory language toward people with ways of life contrary to Catholic teaching, including those in same-sex unions and other non-marital relationships.
Moore praised the document for suggesting that “we should not drive sinners away, but that we should receive them and nurture them toward Christ,” but said that the “church is not itself, though, to be made up of unrepentant people.”
To read the original story, click here.
Why do we need false religions to know what the Catholic Church has, up until the Post Vatican II era, taught faithfully from the beginning? Marriage is between a man and a woman. It’s as clear as the teachings in the Baltimore Catechism. Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism, Taoism and Sikhism? what?!!! No Scientologists? How unecumenical.
Apparently Pope Francis does not understand the traditional teaching by Jesus and the Church on marriage. He must take up a vote including those belonging to false religions. On the otherhand maybe he does not believe any false religions exist.
Apparently Pope Francis gets criticized just for waking up every morning.
If ONLY that was all he did! Now I remember all I ever learned about Argentina and why we don’t have closer relations with them.
Dana, you disparage the successor of Peter, for no other reason than your personal prejudices against his country? Really?
Jesus never stated that all Popes, all Cardinals, all Bishops, or all Priests will get to Heaven.
We have had 12 bad Popes in the past.
Well, I wasn’t particularly disparaging him because he was from Argentina…he’s Italian, you know. His behavior reflects an Argentine sensibility…volatile, unpredictable, unreliable and way too influenced by the Tango, a dance condemned by Pope Leo XIII as Satanic. That is no small thing, contrary to what you’re thinking…that science is all, for one thing. Dance can be a door to darkness, as can certain music. But I digress. I find it rather amusing that you took it to be disparagment of the pope to say we don’t have closer relations with Argentina. NOTE I didn’t criticize Argentina, YOU did. hahaha
PS…Sorry, that was St. Pius X that condemned the Tango.
Dana it would be nice if you told the truth. I did not disparage either the Pope nor his country of birth. Yet you doubled down in your assault on his home country at 9:40 AM. Really, promoting and acting out of such stereotypes to disparage the Pope, then you try to turn the tables and say it is ME who is doing this. Please take credit/blame when you slam someone and a country and stop pawning it off on me simply for pointing it out to you.
Dana you posted a link at 9:42 AM to a very heretical video. My ears went up when the narrator called Brogoglio a “novus ordo cardinal”. There is no such thing. Then at the end of the video, the narrator goes on to say that the ordinary form is not a valid mass, that we cannot follow it, that it violates the Council of Trent, etc etc. All heretical statements.
YFC, your ears always go up when it comes to anything with the potential to be twisted into a means to silence those you find threatening. For some bizarre reason you correlate association with Argentina to be a disparagement. Why is that? Dana didn’t disparage anyone, rather you seem intent on labeling her speech as such.
Do you think that everyone is being disparaged? Or just certain classes of people as determined by… by you? Always taking offense at the words of others can be a serious and debilitating condition, YFC.
That said, you disparage a successor of the Apostles in one Cardinal Burke and think nothing of it. How is that possible if hierarchical successions in the Church hold you in such awe?
Considering your rampant inconsistencies, I would steer clear of you for what constitutes heretical statements.
Franciscus P.P. will not rest until he turns our universal Church into a new Argentina.
As George Will aptly put it last election night : Illinois is the American Argentina. Soon coming to a parish near you.
Thank you Gratias & Ann…we live in perilous times but with faithful brothers and sisters in Christ like you, I dont feel alone. We must have each other’s backs, as just defending Traditions and the true teachings of our beloved Church will brand us as heretics more each day. I was truly shocked the other day when I read Mark Shea’s post defending Elton Johns view of Pope Francis. This guy is on EWTN all the time and is part of the whole coterie of converts like Dale Ahlquist. I hate to see this division but I can’t see any way of avoiding it, can you? The current “evangelization” seems to be telling pagans to come on and join the party…in this happy clappy church you can have your cake and eat too!
Likely that odd disconnect is what your husband is seeing too, Dana, as you mentioned in another post. And yet I’m certain he also sees your fidelity to what the Church actually teaches. As to Shea, trying to spin even the unspinnable into a positive will make a person throw up eventually – especially when there is no regular fare to be taken at face value.
When that purge finally occurs, they usually begin to overcome and think clearly. Like rotavirus of the mouth, it just needs to work itself out.
Let’s stick together and pray for that time, but in the meanwhile, duck, cover, keep to Tradition, and understand that God sometimes gives us what we ask for – being high on ourselves.
God bless.
So, from a synod with bishops proposing communion to adulterers to a conference on traditional marriage? Huh?
YEP, a Synod that proposed giving Holy Communion to those choosing to continue living in mortal sin –
1) continuing to commit adultery with the valid spouse of another;
2) continuing to choose to commit sodomy;
3) and those continuing living a life of fornication.
A Synod where Cafeteria Cardinals (heretics) were chosen by the Pope as honored and featured speakers.
Let’s not forget that Pope Francis called the Synod and approved the agenda.
Frankly I do not trust Pope Francis. He has been trying to destroy the sacrament of Marriage, which IS A SACRED BOND, and now he wants a conference which includes false religions and cults which DO NOT profess what we Catholics believe. The family IS in trouble, and I think what is going on with the synod liberals and this conference is like having a fox guard the hen house. Ave Maria Purrissima!
The US Courts are Still hashing our the role of Marriage & Faith, as the attached article shows. While we may not agree fully (or even much) on important issues of Faith – We Do Have Common Cause with those who support the Constitution in California (Prop-8 Is Law) and Marriage Nationwide.
Hence – this is not Just a Catholic issue – but one that does cross many divides that otherwise exist. When former judge von-wanker in Frisco Denied the Right To Defend the Constitution to Many Excellent Pro-Marriage Groups with great points and better witnesses – He Selected Who got to Defend the Constitution, and Excluded those who probably would have done a much better job.
Remember – our Governot ‘Der Arnold’ Refused to Defend the State Constitution (while being Blackmailed by the Gaystapo while In Office over his allegedly ‘secret’ Extra Son) – and the media / ‘happy community’ kept von-wanker’s own Homosex Partnership Conflict an ‘open secret’ too.
Making Common Cause in the Political / Judicial Arena is good for the Church, so long as we pick the right partners for the right reasons:
SEE
No Constitutional Right to Same-Sex Marriage, Circuit Court Rules
Earlier today, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 6th Circuit overruled lower court decisions that had struck down state laws defining marriage as the union of a man and a woman.
The 6th Circuit Court ruled that constitutional amendments passed by popular vote in Michigan (2.7 million votes), Kentucky (1.2 million), Ohio (3.3 million) and Tennessee (1.4 million) do not violate the U.S. Constitution.
Listen guys, when I looked at the names of some of the Protestant attendees, perhaps THEY WILL TEACH POPE FRANCIS what Jesus taught in the bible about divorce with remarriage.
(Rather than holding a Synod with some heretical Cardinals handpicked by the Pope as guest/speakers who act like the Bible means nothing, and they are free to do whatever they please.)
In this case perhaps these Protestants are truly better Christians than some of the Pope’s hand picked Catholic Cardinals.
Thou shall not commit Adultery” – GOD’s Commandment
Ex 20:14 ; Deut 5:18.
“Thou shall not covet thy Neighbor’s wife” – GOD’s Commandment
Ex 20:17 ; Deut 5.20.
Teachings of JESUS about divorce and remarriage –
Mk 10:6-12; Mt 5:32.
Teaching of JESUS about adultery, mercy, and required repentance –
“Go and SIN NO MORE” Jn 8:11.
Regarding homosexual acts:
Gen 19:1-29; Rom 1:24-27; 1 Cor 6:10; 1 Tim 1:10; Jude 1:7
St Paul – 1 Cor 11:27-30 about condemnation for receiving Holy Communion unworthily.
Common Cause with others being Attacked makes sense on this issue:
SEE
Rick Santorum: We’re losing on gay ‘marriage’ because the Church has been silenced
Former senator and presidential contender Rick Santorum has a theory about why supporters of true marriage are losing ground in the fight against marital redefinition – increasingly, they’re being banned from the debate entirely.
“The arguments are being won among young people,” Santorum, a Republican, told Tony Perkins of the Family Research Council in a recent interview. “We are losing in this particular area among young people not because we’re out there and competing, it’s because they have effectively silenced the church on a lot of those issues and young people don’t even know what the opposing view is on these issues.”
“I really believe in this subject matter at hand with the gay community that a Judeo-Christian worldview cannot survive with a worldview that is as rabidly secular as this movement is,” Santorum continued. “One is going to battle the other and I can tell you that the statists, these secular statists, do not want the competition that comes from the church and so they are going to do everything they can to marginalize them, to force them out of the public square to be quiet.”
“They’re going to use, as they have, the Johnson amendment, try to use the IRS and the tax code to do so, they’re going to use every lever of power the government has to keep this competition of ideas silent so they can win the argument,” he added.
Here is a Link to a PDF file detailing many if not all of the Attacks on Marriage and Faith underway in the Abomination and its underlings:
SEE
THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION’S ATTACKS ON RELIGIOUS FREEDOM, SANCTITY OF LIFE, MARRIAGE AND THE FAMILY
https://www.adfmedia.org/files/ObamaReligiousFreedomAttacks.pdf
This is the purpose of the meeting: The conference will aim to “examine and propose anew the beauty of the relationship between the man and the woman, in order to support and reinvigorate marriage and family life for the flourishing of human society,” Failure to marry is endemic in the west, same sex marriage is accepted by nearly 52% of Catholics, late marriage is the norm, invitro is never questioned. This effects all religions and there is good reason for opinion leaders in all faiths to try to have a united front on the issue. It must be a good thing because so many people are against it. Again, no good deed goes unpunished.
And for all of my opinions about same sex marriage, I count it as a good thing that the Church is now turning its attention to support married life among traditional couplings. There is eminent need. If we paid more attention to supporting married couples, maybe we wouldn’t have to accuse third parties of destroying them.
Almost all those who support sodomy marriage (like yourself YFC)
support ANYTHING that they believe will change the teachings of Christ and His Church – as contained in Sacred Scripture and the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition”.
Those committed to a life of sin, want others in Hell with them.
“examine and propose anew the beauty of the relationship between the man and the woman, in order to support and reinvigorate marriage and family life for the flourishing of human society,”
The family has disintegrated because of the disobedience and failure of shepherds to impart the beauty of Humanae Vitae. As the leadership in the Church goes, society goes. Many Catholics also rejected Church teaching and gave themselves permission slips to ignore Humanae Vitae. How do you reinvigorate family life to those who reject Church teaching regarding the use of artificial contraception? How do you reinvigorate marriage and the family by asking the opinions of those who also reject Humanae Vitae? How do teachers who reject the beauty of Humanae Vitae impart the beauty to reinvigorate family life when they have in their actions, already said NO to God as being the center of their family life?
Douay-Rheims Bible
“And God blessed them, saying: Increase and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it, and rule over the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the air, and all living creatures that move upon the earth. ” Genesis 1:28
Now we see that we are NOT being blessed and because of great disobedience we are being subdued and ruled over by all things corrupt and foul. A conference cannot cure a problem when it fails to even recognize or address the root cause.
Catherine, Addressing the Academy on Tuesday, Pope Francis said, “Evolution of nature is not inconsistent with the notion of creation because evolution presupposes the creation of beings which evolve.” Cosmologists, still wrestling with the question of what brought the universe into existence, might question his statement, “The big bang, which is today posited as the origin of the world, does not contradict the divine act of creation; rather, it requires it.” On the other hand, it is also not something that can currently be disproved.
“…A conference cannot cure a problem when it fails to even recognize or address the root cause.”
How true. Much like:
“…Now we see that we are NOT being blessed and because of great disobedience we are being subdued and ruled over by all things corrupt and foul.”
God chastens us like sons. Perhaps if we, like chastened sons, turned to Our Good Mother and take her words to heart, “Doing all that ‘He’ tells us,” our cup would once again overflow and with that which speaks of quality instead of cheap alternatives.
Bob One, everything you stated that needs to be done is contained the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition” – with excellent explanations.
Does Pope Francis think that any of these voices are more scholarly, loving and merciful or wiser than Christ? There is no need to open a conversation in the hopes of improving the quality or changing the meaning of of Christ’s clear words.
Jesus did NOT say … “Thou art Peter, Joel Osteen, Rick Warren, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism, Taoism and Sikhism. and various Christian Churches; and upon the differing opinions of these many different rocks I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. ”
Mark 10: 6 “But from the beginning of the creation, God made them *male and female.* 7 For this cause, a man shall leave his father and mother and shall cleave to his wife. 8 And they two shall be in one flesh. Therefore now they are not two, but one flesh. 9 *What therefore God hath joined together, let no man put asunder*.”
CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH – SECOND EDITION
The Church’s ultimate trial
675 – Before Christ’s second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers. The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth will unveil the “mystery of iniquity” in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth. The supreme religious deception is that of the Antichrist, a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and of his Messiah come in the flesh.
676 – The Antichrist’s deception already begins to take shape in the world every time the claim is made to realize within history that messianic hope which can only be realized beyond history through the eschatological judgment. The Church has rejected even modified forms of this falsification of the kingdom to come under the name of millenarianism, especially the “intrinsically perverse” political form of a secular messianism.
Are you calling Pope Francis the anti-Christ, Catherine?
JESUS did not tell us the name of the anti-Christ. Who knows ?
The only mention of the Antichrist in Catherine’s post is from the Catechism of the Catholic Church. You should buy one.
So we are expected to believe that she randomly attaches paragraphs of the Catechism to her posts? That there is no connection between her discussion of the Pope in part 1 of her posts with her quotation about the anti-Christ in part 2 of her post? Get real.
“So we are expected to believe that she randomly attaches paragraphs of the Catechism to her posts? ” = In the spirit of “getting real”. You YFC have been deceived and you ARE complicit with the enemies of Christ who sow seeds of rebellion and confusion and pave the way for the anti-Christ.
I have NOT called Pope Francis the anti-Christ. I referenced that section of the Catechism of the Catholic Church to illustrate the fact that the Church teaches that doctrinal and moral confusion are tools that will be used by the anti-Christ and those who pave the way for Antichrist.
This is why it is vital that Pope Francis should provide clarity and eliminate the confusions spread by heterodox cardinals, bishops, priests, religious, and laity, who seek to undermine Catholic moral teaching with the aid of the the enemies of the Church via homosexual activists such as yourself as well as the mainstream media.
It was the belief of many Church fathers, based on Sacred Scripture, that the anti-Christ will be of the Jewish race, from the Tribe of Dan. He will claim to be the true Messiah and accepted as the Messiah by many of the Jewish people.
The following is from “History of Antichrist” by Rev. P. Huchede:
“The prophet Daniel speaks of him in a literal and mystical sense in three different chapters, namely, 7, 9, and 11, while St. Matthew (24), St. Mark (13), St. John (5), and St. Paul In 2[nd] Epistle to the Thessalonians (2), St. John in his 1[st] and 2[nd] Epistles, and especially in the Apocalypse (13), etc. tell us of his future or coming “event.
…By his deceitful craft he will detach the minds and hearts of all peoples from the religion of Jesus Christ. By his incomparable eloquence he will represent Jesus as an imposter; he will attack His doctrine and institutions, according to the teachings of St. Cyril of Jerusalem (Cat. 15], Damascus (c. 27), Jerome (in his work on the prophet Daniel).
After having weakened the faith of Christ in the minds and hearts of many, he will proceed to show that the law of Moses still prevails; he will reestablish the Sabbath and all the legal observances; and he will invite all the Jews to reestablish their nationality, after which he will declare himself to be the true messiah; who will endeavor to prove the truth of his assertion from Scripture – he will declare his design of rebuilding Jerusalem and the temple and of bringing the whole world under his dominion. The carnal Jews, finding these projects in perfect harmony with their own prejudices, will easily acknowledge for the Messiah the one whom they desire. And after having at first despised and scorned him, they will subsequently receive and proclaim him king. (Dan, 11:21), According to St. Cyril of Jerusalem (Cath. 15), he will win the esteem and attachment of mankind by his urbane and unbounded kindness.”
YFC – try reading the CCC in entirety, AND live according to the CCC in entirety.
Oh, I forgot, you support Sodomy Marriage.
YFC writes, “…So we are expected to believe that she randomly attaches paragraphs of the Catechism to her posts? That there is no connection between her discussion of the Pope in part 1 of her posts with her quotation about the anti-Christ in part 2 of her post? Get real.”
So we are expected to believe that a man who openly advocates and brags about that which goes against the teachings of the Church and the natural law is to be taken seriously when it comes to defending the Papacy and/or anything of Catholic Faith and Morals? GET REAL.
That’s what folks have been telling you for eons, YFC. Get real. You’re not fooling anybody.
God bless you Juergensen!
Are you worrying the pope is the anti-Christ, YFC? You’re reading ideas into our posts that are not there. Perhaps you’re harboring such dark thoughts in your subconscious? You sure talk about it a lot. Hmmmm.
Dana, I am not worried that the Pope is the Antichrist. IHowever, it is quite clear that Catherine believes that the Pope is either the anti-Christ or “paving the way” for the anti-Christ. I never mentioned the anti-Christ until Catherine brought it up. Yet you once again turn something that either YOU say or someone else says, that I object to, and then pretend that I was the one who said it in the first place. What is your motivation, Dana, for taking words and turning them upside down? Either way, take your beef up with her.
You’re the one attempting to twist what folks are saying, YFC, to impute some false charge of crying anti-Christ. There are many who pave the way for anti-Christ each and every time they engage in promoting that which goes against Christ’s teachings. That includes many a private agenda, YFC, as you understand all too well.
If you don’t like beef, don’t say moo.
Ann Malley, you make no logical sense. Catherine talked in two posts about the anti-Christ at the same time as she was talking about her criticisms of the Pope. There were no intervening sentences, no explanation that would persuade any objective observer that the two are wholly unrelated to each other in her mind. No twisting is needed, except if you want to untwist the connection that Catherine makes between the two. By defending her post, you too are a trying to make connection between the two, and which I am here calling her and you and Dana out on. If this is not so, then let you all three say, “Pope Francis is the validly consecrated Roman Pontiff, and is not an anti-Christ nor one who is paving the way for the anti-Christ.” It is that simple. If the 3 of you write that, I will drop it. Be clear, as you claim the Pope is not clear.
Your push for simplicity could work very easily with regard to your own issues about marriage and sexual ethics, YFC, yet you skate around them ad nauseum while seeking to highlight your ‘Catholic’ fidelity by defending the indefensible and/or plain confusing from Church hierarchy.
That said, of course Pope Francis is the validly consecrated Roman Pontiff, but I am no prognosticator and so cannot, with any credibility, state absolutely what he is or is not paving the way for, save the future. And since we have been warned of blind guides and the CCC 675 warns pretty clearly about such nonsense as we see going on, I am being watchful as Our Lord instructed.
You seem to believe that holding a certain office eliminates the ability for such a one to engage free will for the good, the bad, or the hapless fallout of bad policy and/or ill thought approaches to an increasingly stubborn faithful – yourself included. If only THAT were true.
As you know with the God-given gift of children many parents, though rightfully holding authority, misuse that authority, often by neglect and confusing messages, to the detriment of their children. You speak so vehemently about this issue on the natural level, but seem incapable of understanding that that is but a reflection of higher matters.
So use logic, YFC, and use it all the time instead of only when it suits.
YFC writes “Dana, I am not worried that the Pope is the Antichrist.”
YFC was only worried about Pope Benedict XVI and Cardinal Burke.
https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2014/11/bp-athanasius-schneider-on-synod.html
Bp. Athanasius Schneider on the Synod, “manipulation”, and the “neo-pagan” and heterodox midterm relatio – Midterm relatio a stain on the honor of the Apostolic See
Catherine is still not admitting to and retracting her juxtapositioning of her commentary on her purported deficiencies of the Pope and that of the anti-Christ. In fact, she is essentially doubling down on her link to a minor auxiliary bishop who constantly makes unjustified accusations about what went on at the synod, as well as misstates what the synod published.
An enemy of the Vicar of Christ is an enemy of Christ Himself.
Folks who want and pray for the Vicar of Christ to act clearly as such are not his enemies, rather his supporters. By your logic, mous, Christ should have followed Peter and stayed clear of Jerusalem. After all, Peter was just acting like a good friend who didn’t want to see Our Lord crucified.
…perhaps because what you want another to ‘admit to’ is something of your own nefarious construct, YFC. As to what ‘went on’ at the synod, your take on the matter is overtly biased.
A traitor bent on destroying the United States would likely advocate strongly and defend every anti-American policy established by a sitting president. So you can demand retractions or whatever all you’d like, but you cannot keep people from seeing, hearing, and discerning the spirit of the times. Even the rocks would cry out, YFC.
YFC, An enemy of the teachings of the Catholic Church, on sexual morality, such as yourself, is an enemy of Christ. I already wrote the reason why I posted #675 on November 8, 2014 at 12:46 pm. You just did not like it. Our Lord asked us to always be on guard. To ask if Pope Francis thinks that voices from other religions can add more to what is already the fullness of revealed truth is a realistic and worthy question, especially after what just took place at the Family Synod with Cardinal Kasper. We do not need to improve the truth. We need to DEFEND it and TEACH it. Bob One says we need to teach the truth in a kinder way which no one has a problem with. What Bob One refuses to admit is that there are ravenous wolves in sheep’s clothing in positions of authority who do NOT and will NOT teach the full truth and they punish or remove those who desire to teach the full truth. Period.
continued….
continued from November 11, 2014 at 12:35 pm
YFC, You just want Church teaching to change. You and anonymous saw no problems at the family Synod. The African bishops showed clarity and how clarity is absolutely essential. Even Cardinal Dolan did a You Tube on the much needed clarity that was expressed by the African bishops. It is a good and holy duty to ask the Pope for clarity because that IS love. You and anonymous didn’t find any problems with the Family Synod so you are also calling the clarity that was spoken by the African bishops tabu too. Bishop Anthanasius Schneider clarified and this is using the God given gift of discerning what is good and true especially in light of a generation that has just been completely scandalized, victimized and traumatized by homosexual activists such as yourself within the Church. This betrayal has caused a great loss of faith. The truth is the truth, whether it comes from the voice of the Pope or from the mouth of a minor auxiliary bishop. Mark F’s truthful clear defense of Church teaching came from the voice of a man who has struggled with SSA but you rejected hearing that truth too. So you can juxtaposition your scheming thoughts till the cows come home. How lovely for the sheep to always want to hear clarity from their Pope instead of loving the tools of confusion that you count on.
“What Bob One refuses to admit is that there are ravenous wolves in sheep’s clothing in positions of authority who do NOT and will NOT teach the full truth and they punish or remove those who desire to teach the full truth. Period.”
How timely……
Taken from Father Z’s blog
URGENT PRAYER REQUEST
https://wdtprs.com/blog/2014/11/urgent-prayer-request/
As Al Says pointed out, the answers to these marriage questions are in the Scriptures. There is nothing to discuss.
It must be wonderful for people to say there is nothing to discuss. There is a lot to discuss. The Bible and the teachings of the Church say that marriages should not end in divorce. Yet, over 50% of marriages end in divorce. Young people are living together with no intention of getting married, ever. And, you say there is nothing to discuss. Let’s discuss why a majority of people are repudiating the teachings of the Bible and of the Church, ours and other denominations. Let’s discuss how we can find new ways to approach young people to get them to accept the teachings of God, when most don’t really believe in God. There is a lot of room for discussion. There is a lot to discuss. Our culture has moved beyond the simple answer and demands more thought, more approaches, more validity. It’s not like the old days when everyone believed.
Bob One – lack of catechesis, and lousy homilies is what needs to be discussed.
The FAILURE of Diocese Bishops, Priests, and Nuns to fully teach the Faith accurately for the last 50 years.
Some of this is due to some many seminaries, which do NOT require complete study of the Bible AND the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition” (including Church documents listed in CCC footnotes).
Many Priests (and some Cardinals and some Bishops) need remedial classes in the Doctrine of the Faith which is contained in the CCC.
The only way the Church will reach the MAJORITY of Catholics in the pews, which will assist them in getting to Heaven, and assist in teaching their children, and accurately evangelizing others – – –
is to encourage ALL literate Catholics over age 15 to read the Bible and CCC – AT HOME.
– Unfortunately this was never approved at the Synod of Oct 18, 2014 “Relato Synodi”, nor was it discussed as stated in other published documents.
https://press.vatican.va/content/salastampa/en/bollettino/pubblico/2014/10/18/0770/03044.html
“INSANITY – doing the same thing over and over, and expecting different results.” – Albert Einstein.
People are leaving the Church in droves because they were never properly taught. These former Catholics no longer care what the Church does or teaches about anything including divorce with civil remarriage, homosexual acts, contraception, or anything else.
“My People are destroyed due to the lack of knowledge”. – Hosea 4:6
Please provide links to the seminaries that do not teach the Bible or the CCC. I have reviewed the curriculum of several seminaries, and they spend a lot of time learning the truths of our faith. But please, provide the links.
Bob One, you merely have to ask your own parish priest if he studied in his Seminary – from COVER to COVER and in ENTIRETY –
the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition” – if he was ordained AFTER 1997;
or
the “Catechism of the Council of Trent (aka Roman Catechism) – if he was ordained prior to 1997.
These are the only two universal catechisms in the history of the Catholic Church – teaching the entire Doctrine of the Faith.
– – – – – –
Please provide a link to each of the Seminaries that you have personally checked out in the USA.
St. Patrick’s Seminary in Menlo Park follows the approved curriculum for seminaries in the U.S.
https://www.stpatricksseminary.org/academic/mdivinity.html
The other seminaries follow the same guidelines. I think it would almost be impossible to take this many years of Philosophy and Theology and not cover the Bible and CCC in toto.
Bob One, you are right in this sentence – ” It’s not like the old days when everyone believed.”
This is when people were taught the Faith accurately and completely.
When all seminaries and all convents used the Bible and the (at that time – ) Catechism of the Council of Trent as their governing required texts.
Churches are closing in many parts of the USA. People do not know the Doctrine of the Faith which is contained in the CCC. Many Priests do not know the Faith accurately and complete either.
When the Church quit teaching the majority in the pews completely, what can they expect.
ALL need to be taught the complete Faith, not just those in crisis, or there will continue to be more and more at risk.
“….the CATECHISM has raised throughout the world, even among non-Christians, and confirms its purpose of being presented as a full, complete exposition of Catholic doctrine, enabling everyone to know what the Church professes, celebrates, lives, and prays in her daily life.” – Pope John Paul II (CCC pg xiv)
If the Pope tries to change Church teaching which is based upon Holy Scripture and the Doctrine of the Faith (CCC) –
he will LOSE more Catholics than he could ever hope to gain.
No one wants to support or join a Church that appears to have NO principles and seems to enjoy the secular movement of relativism – teaching by action that there really is no right or no wrong.
If the Pope had intended to merely change procedures or teaching methods without a change in Doctrine of the Faith, there would be no need for a Synod, but merely a Committee like he did with the Vatican bank.
Seems he wants to change things and say one thing while doing another. – Action – Don’t sin, but don’t worry about it, because you still can receive the Eucharist no matter what; and there is no requirement to be in the state of Grace to get to Heaven.
Confusion is the tool of Satan.
Those who choose to continue living in the State of Mortal Sin are not going to convert through GRADUALISM.
If they have all the benefits of the Faith while in sin, there is no need to change, nor is there any incentive to learn anything more.
The sacraments aren’t a “benefit” of not sinning or a reward for good behavior.They are a grace to aid in avoiding sin.
YFC, you do not receive any grace when you are in the State of Mortal Sin.
Bob One obviously thinks that accommodating modern society should take precedent over the Scriptures! That type of thinking is contrary to Scripture, Tradition and Reason.
Archbishop Chaput would have a lot more credence if he actually enforced Canon 915!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts!
May God have mercy on an amoral Amerika and His Church!
Viva Cristo Rey!
Kenneth M. Fisher, Founding Director
Concerned Roman Catholics of America, Inc.
Archbishop Chaput’s statements would have a lot more credence if he actually enforced Canon 915 which he promised a large gathering of pro-life leaders at a Conference held in his then Diocese of Sioux City he would do!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts!
May God have mercy on an amoral Amerika!
Viva Cristo Rey!
Kenneth M. Fisher, Founding Director
Concerned Roman Catholics of America, Inc.
Kenneth Fisher, please provide a link where Abp Chaput gives Holy Communion to those publically obstinate in Mortal Sin (violation of Canon 915)).
I have not seen this, and do not like or trust personal statements and personal opinions.
If you are aware of anyone violating Canon 915 within his Diocese, have you personally contacted him recently ?
What was his reply?
Is there a recent picture of the Abp giving Holy Communion to anyone who violates Canon 915 ?
Thanks.
He allowed all the abortionist and homosexualist Democratic “Catholics” to receive Holy Communion when the Party of Abortion and Sodomy held its convention in Denver to nominate its Chief Abortionist and Homosexualist.
“ Problematic Theology: Baptist pastor Wallace Henley has cited Pope Francis’ claims that the Church must not want “to close herself within the written word not allowing herself to be surprised by God.”
Henley writes: “The Pope seems not to understand biblical authority, inferring that God has some “surprises” from beyond the “written word.”
Apparently, the revelation of God through the Bible is not the final word for Francis, and the Church needs to be on the look-out for some “new things”, as … [More]_”
https://www.gloria.tv/media/s6yRn6RuZPP
Pastor Henley better be careful or he might get demoted too.
There would have been no crisis or need for a Synod, or need for this conference if the Diocese Bishops and their Priests had been doing their jobs – TEACHING the DOCTRINE of the FAITH accurately rather than being involved in politics and other endeavors.
Why wasn’t this discussed at the Synod ?
In order to spread the Faith accurately, EVERYONE still in the pews must be taught, not merely those with issues, or the Church will continue to dwindle.
The Magisterium has given us the tools (Bible and CCC) yet most Diocese Bishops and their Priests refuse to make use of them – for the good of the MAJORITY.
The entire Church is in crisis –
those leaving, those divorced and civilly remarried, those who support sodomy marriage, those who choose to live in fornication, etc., are all merely symptoms of a LACK of TEACHING EVERYONE the TRUTH of the Faith.
Bishops have become too busy with the secular world to attend to their first task of TEACHING.
EVERYONE needs teaching to teach their children and others, not merely those who have created problems for themselves.
Why was this not discussed at the Synod?
“We have met the enemy, and he is us.” – Pogo
The continued lack of teaching ALL Catholics who have remained in the Church,
will mean the continuation of future generations leaving due to lack of knowledge and misconceptions.
TRUTH can not change. It is contained in Sacred Scripture.
It is NOT important that the Church be large.
It IS important that the Church be Holy.
If Pope Francis thinks he is going to covert non-Catholics and bring those choosing to continue to live in mortal sin by throwing the Bible and CCC under the bus, he is not very bright.
It is almost as if his pride makes him wrongly think he has been empowered to covert the whole world based upon his election.
Have any Popes secretly been Masons ?
It’s my impression, MaryK that just the opposite is true. He doesn’t think we should ‘proselytize’ to the Jews or Baptists…that they’re fine as they are, as are muslims, hindus, et al He doesn’t believe in Catholic exceptionalism and it would seem that what he’s aiming for is to bring peace, rather like the UN. As I say, that is just my impression.
No matter what the Pope says or does, we must remember:
CCC: ” 81 Sacred Scripture is the speech of God as it is put down in writing under the breath of the Holy Spirit.
And [Holy] Tradition transmits in its entirety the Word of God which has been entrusted to the apostles by Christ the Lord and the Holy Spirit. It transmits it to the successors of the apostles so that, enlightened by the Spirit of truth, they may faithfully preserve, expound and spread it abroad by their preaching .”
“When we pray, we speak to God; when we read the Scriptures, God speaks to us.” – St. Augustine.
“Thou shall not commit Adultery” – GOD’s Commandment
Ex 20:14 ; Deut 5:18.
“Thou shall not covet thy Neighbor’s wife” – GOD’s Commandment
Ex 20:17 ; Deut 5.20.
Teachings of JESUS about divorce and remarriage –
Mk 10:6-12; Mt 5:32.
Teaching of JESUS about adultery, mercy, and required repentance – “
Go and SIN NO MORE”. Jn 8:11.
About homosexual acts:
Gen 19:1-29; Rom 1:24-27; 1 Cor 6:10; 1 Tim 1:10; Jude 1:7
St Paul – 1 Cor 11:27-30 about condemnation for receiving Holy Communion unworthily.
Pope Francis just gave a sermon. A critique of the sermon, “Pope warns against sliding down the path that leads to being Christian in name but pagan in nature”. is on the “Asian News.it” website. I am sure it can be found on other Catholic websites. I suggest all read it.
The Pope says a lot of things, but because he contradicts himself and contradicts the Doctrine of the Faith so often, Catholics are starting to ignore him in anything that is not strictly “OFFICIAL”.
So far the only official thing is the reorganization of the Vatican bank which needed to be done but does not directly affect those in the pews.
I read the article, and the Pope said he was inspired by St. Paul.
Why wasn’t the Pope inspired by St. Paul in 1 Cor 11:27-30 where St Paul stated that those who receive Holy Communion unworthily are condemned ? ? ?
Just another contradiction of confusion by Pope Francis.
Mac, Conservatives, led by Cardinal Raymond Burke, the former archbishop of St. Louis, have blasted the pope for encouraging a wide-ranging discussion on all kinds of families, gay and straight, at the synod. Philadelphia Archbishop Charles Chaput said media coverage created an image of devilish confusion over doctrine on sexual ethics and marriage. But Cardinal Kasper (Germany) would have none of that. He repeated a familiar refrain: “The Pope is not a liberal. He is a radical.” By radical, he means returning to the origins of a church rooted in mercy, said the cardinal, author of a new book, “Mercy: The Essence of the Gospel and the Key to Christian Life.” In his lecture, he described Francis as “a Pope of surprises” and “a Jesuit through and through” with “a holy impatience with our divisions.”
He said the pope’s view is that “the churches are too wrapped up in their own concerns. … The church cannot be self-centered, revolving around itself, but a church on the move,” at the center of human existence, not the periphery.
Marc fr. L. A., we fully agree that the Church can not be self centered. And this has absolutely nothing to do with the topic of approval of mortal sin.
The Pope has been blasted for encouraging through his personal invitation to keynote Synod speakers – heretics Kasper, Dannells, and a few others – for widely straying from Sacred Scripture and the CCC.
He appoints Bishops to Diocese who support giving Holy Communion to those choosing to continue living in mortal sin.
As a reminder this is the Church Doctrine –
“Thou shall not commit Adultery” – GOD’s Commandment
Ex 20:14 ; Deut 5:18.
“Thou shall not covet thy Neighbor’s wife” – GOD’s Commandment
Ex 20:17 ; Deut 5.20.Teachings of JESUS about divorce and remarriage – Mk 10:6-12; Mt 5:32.
Teaching of JESUS about adultery, mercy, and required repentance – “Go and Sin NO more” Jn 8:11.
About homosexual acts:
Gen 19:1-29; Rom 1:24-27; 1 Cor 6:10; 1 Tim 1:10; Jude 1:7
St Paul – 1 Cor 11:27-30 about condemnation for receiving Holy Communion unworthily.
CCC: ” 81 Sacred Scripture is the speech of God as it is put down in writing under the breath of the Holy Spirit.
And [Holy] Tradition transmits in its ENTIRETY the Word of God which has been entrusted to the apostles by Christ the Lord and the Holy Spirit.
It transmits it to the successors of the apostles so that, enlightened by the Spirit of truth, they may faithfully preserve, expound and spread it abroad by their preaching. “
Now what do you not understand ?
What do you disagree with from Holy Scripture ?
Btw the Church definition of heresy can be found in CCC #2089.
Marc fr. L. A. –
Catholics who are divorced and civilly remarried have 3 choices.
– – – 1. If they believe that their first marriage was NOT VALID, they should contact their Diocese office of Marriage Tribunal for further information and needed forms.
(Remembering that truthfulness is important because we can deceive other human beings, but not Jesus at our particular judgment.)
– – – 2. They can repent and live as brother and sister, and receive the Sacraments. (CCC #1650)
– – – 3. They can choose not to repent, and continue committing adultery with someone else’s valid spouse,
and NOT receive the Sacraments, but must raise their children in the Catholic Faith. (CCC # 1651)
Receiving Holy Communion while in the state of Mortal Sin –
– – – 1. Sacrilege against the Body and Blood of our Lord.
– – – 2. Scandal for others which can be an additional mortal sin. CCC 2284, 2285, 2286, 2326.
– – – 3. Teaching of St. Paul 1 Cor 11:27-30 regarding condemnation for receiving unworthily.
Priests, Nuns, and all other unmarried persons are expected to live a non-sexual lifestyle.
This can also be done by the divorced and remarried if their first marriage was valid.
The choice is theirs alone. They can choose God or sex.
* * * * * * * If one truly loves their current civil spouse he/she will want him/her to get to Heaven. – THIS IS LOVE !
CCC: “1451 Among the penitent’s acts contrition occupies first place. Contrition is
sorrow of the soul
and detestation for the sin committed,
together with the resolution not to sin again.”
Love of Neighbor means helping him/her get to Heaven.
It is not merciful, nor charitable, nor pastoral to confirm anyone in mortal sin.
It is not merciful, nor charitable, nor pastoral to participate or encourage their mortal sin, or their Sacrilege.
We have a responsibility for the sins committed by others when we – – – see CCC #1868.
Is there anything in these Doctrines of the Faith that you do not understand ?
What do you disagree with?
PETER, traditional marriage is to stay married for life and be exclusive, forsaking all others. Why do you think it is OK to live with another woman even as brother and sister? How does that fulfill the vows you made before God to your wife?
You are married to your wife. Not your civil wife, but the one you married in the Church. Divorce does not change that.
The teaching of JESUS (God) is not the periphery.
God’s Commandments are not the periphery.
Within human history there has always been adultery, fornication, and homosexual acts. – These mortal sins are nothing new.
And I find it very strange that there appear to be some who think this s a new phenomenon which should be treated differently than as stated by God.
A Church “on the move” should be to teach and correct sinners, not support them in the continuance of their sin.
Everyone should read the new book “REMAINING in the TRUTH of CHRIST”.
Give a copy to your Diocese Bishop and Parish Priest for Christmas.
Cdl Kasper is a liar (proven on tape) and terrible cleric. That this man has any influence at all is disgrace. This is a man who has under his tenure witness the complete collapse of the Catholicism in Germany. The aim of men like Kasper, Forte, and I dare say Francis, is the creation of new false Church based on the whims of the modern world. There will be no conversion to Christ there will be conversion of the Church to the world.
I thought you all approved of lying. At least that’s the impression you all give when you use it so often yourselves.
Well, we cannot ignore him, Mac, or we will never know the truth of what he says. I have found that both the right and the left ( for want of better terms) have done some twisting at times. It seems to happen with most of the popes in one manner or the other. He really does need to be careful about making private phone calls to people he does not know well because many times a person will just hear what they want to hear and ignore the rest and misinterpret what he says to reporters.
The Pope has not, not once, said anything that is not a teaching of the Church. In every statement he has made he has called for adherence to the full truths of the Catholic Church. If you think he hasn’t, then you must provide the quotation that was incorrect. If you refer to the final report of the latest Extraordinary Synod, there is nothing in that report that is not in compliance with Church teaching. Admittedly, some participants held stronger views on some issues. Keep in mind that it forms the discussion piece for next year’s Synod. The confusion for some comes from misreading what the Pope says, the media’s misreading of what he said or just being scared of change in the approach to a subject. It is true, however, I think that he is more interested in the reality of the lives of people than in dogma. Let’s also keep in mind that the U.S. represents only 6% of the Catholics in the world, so our reality is out of sync with a lot of other Catholics.
Bob One, this is the confusion or dichotomy of Pope Francis.
He says one thing and does another.
While an assembly of the Synod of Bishops (Cardinals) thus expresses its collective wishes, it does not issue decrees, unless in certain cases the Pope authorizes it to do so, and even then an assembly’s decision requires ratification by the Pope. The Pope serves as president of an assembly or appoints the president, determines the agenda, and summons, suspends, and dissolves the assembly.
.
On one Pope Francis was the one who invited the heretical featured speakers of Kasper and Dannell, etc. (and had his Vatican Secretary make it public to give them excellent advertising for their causes).
And it was he who approved the agenda.
And it was he who approved the heretical and incorrect/false interim Oct 13, report to be posted on the Vatican web site by his hand picked Cardinal Forte to put the paper together.
On the other hand when speaking to the people (who can not make changes)
adherence to the full truths of the Catholic Church.
.
It is the Pope who removed a Faithful Bishop (Burke) from the Commission that Recommends new Bishops to him (-this is not the issue)
And replaced him with Cardinal Donald Wuerl who publically promotes giving Holy Communion to those choosing to live in mortal sin which does violate the bible teaching 1 Cor: 11:27-30, and Church teaching on Sacrilege, and Code of Canon Law 915. (- This is the issue.)
And because of this the Pope recently appointed a Bishop of like-mind to the Chicago Diocese – Blasé Cupich.
The Pope’s actions speak much louder than his words.
The devil loves confusion.
If you can not find them I can find Catholic links to anything in my post if you desire them.
PETER, you CLAIM these men are heretics. Yet you provide no proof. Cardinal Wuerl has never said he supports offering Communion to those living in mortal sin. What he offers is a pathway to forgiveness for mortal sin, so that they may be reintroduced into the sacramental life of the Church. This is not heresy. This is the Gospel.
YFC – do you know what a heretic is ? You are one for what you just printed.
This is the Church definition CCC 2089 – ” Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same; ”
– – 1 Cor 11:27-30 regarding profaning the Body and Blood of Our Lord by receiving Holy Communion unworthily.
– – “God is the author of Sacred Scripture” – CCC: 105.
– – 915 Code of Canon Law – ” Those who have been excommunicated or interdicted after the imposition or declaration of the penalty
and others obstinately persevering in manifest grave sin
are not to be admitted to holy communion.”
Cardinals Kasper, Dannell, Wuerl, and Cupich – ALL violate Church teaching regarding Sacrilege, and therefore participate in this Mortal Sin of others.
Their pride and arrogance lead them to think they know better than Sacred Scripture and the Church.
Receiving Holy Communion while in the State of Mortal Sin is NOT
a pathway to forgiveness for Mortal Sin. In fact, by allowing this, these Cardinals prove relativism that there is no right or wrong – any behavior is acceptable.
Wuerl et al merely want to rationalize their personal sanctioning of Mortal Sin.
Jesus said REPENTANCE is required for His forgiveness, not
Sacrilege.
This is what is required for forgiveness
CCC: ” 1451 Among the penitent’s acts contrition occupies first place. Contrition is
sorrow of the soul.
detestation for the sin committed,
together with the resolution not to sin again.”
Please learn what heresy really is. You have the correct definition but you do not understand it.
To commit heresy, one must refuse to be corrected. A person who is ready to be corrected or who is unaware that what he has been saying is against Church teaching is not a heretic.
A person must be baptized to commit heresy. This means that movements that have split off from or been influenced by Christianity, but that do not practice baptism (or do not practice valid baptism), are not heresies, but separate religions. Examples include Muslims, who do not practice baptism, and Jehovah’s Witnesses, who do not practice valid baptism.
Finally, the doubt or denial involved in heresy must concern a matter that has been revealed by God and solemnly defined by the Church (for example, the Trinity, the Incarnation, the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, the sacrifice of the Mass, the pope’s infallibility, or the Immaculate Conception and Assumption of Mary).
A reintroduction to receiving the Blessed Sacrament while in an adulterous relationship is the encouragement to sacrilege, YFC. For while you say that Cardinal Wuerl doesn’t propose giving Communion to those in the state of mortal sin, what you are indicating is that the good Cardinal proposes to circumvent what God Himself has outlined to be gravely sinful – that being adulterous unions.
Do we get to eventually rewrite all of the commandments and call it good, eliminating ‘sin’ by way of legality so that we can all proceed forward to union with the Lord. And what kind of union would that be since Our Lord is the fulfillment of the law we are continually attempting to negate?
Good grief, man.
Bob One, you may be right that the Pope appears much more interested in the TEMPORAL(earthly life), rather than the ETERNAL (heaven or hell life).
This is part of the problem with his pontificate.
The goal should always be eternal salvation.
If one does not believe in Sacred Scripture including the Words of Jesus (God) in entirety, then no religion, no earthly lifestyle matters.
Relativism would be the rule.
Once again Bob One you hold the world over the Church. The reality is that people must conform their lives to the teachings of the Church end of story.
I agree Canisius, the world must conform to the teachings of the Church. Why do you think we disagree? So, now what? The Pope, for example isn’t looking to change the teachings of the Church, but he is looking for new ways to tell the Gospel so that people will be attracted to the Church and the teachings of Christ. He has said this very clearly: that we must attract people to Christ and the Church. He has never said that we must change our Christ given truths, only how we tell the story.
And if people refuse to accept the teaching of the Church then so be it. Let them refuse, lets stop going into theological contortions so that people find the teaching more agreeable. Either they will accept them or they will not. The Ancient Church was able to convert the pagan Roman Empire, ST. Patrick by himself converted Ireland, St James converted Spain, and these men did not have to find new ways to teach the Gospel they just preached the Truth cut and dry. What is so hard for you to understand, when we have the examples of Saints
By the way it is Pope Francis who wanted those 3 paragraphs that did NOT get the necessary 2/3 vote to remain in the final Oct 18 “Relatio Synodi” report.
Paragraphs 52, 53, 55.
How do you know that?
1) Why should I become a Catholic if the Pope does not care what religion people espouse?
2) Why should I become a Catholic if the Pope does not believe in the Words of Jesus in the Bible about adultery with remarriage?
3) If your Pope picks and chooses which teachings of Jesus are important and which are not – how does he determine this ?
4) I thought Catholics regarded the Eucharist as very special and holy, but the Pope seems to want even all those who choose to purposely violate the words of Jesus to receive. How does this make sense?
One more question please –
5) Why is repentance not very important with your Pope?
(Not continuing to purposely continue to commit the same offense against God’s Commandments).
Perhaps you should listen to the entirety of what the Pope says, Oh Questioning one, as you seem to have greatly misunderstood what he has said. If you do listen to him, you will find the answers you seek. Instead, you seem to want to entrap him with the biased point of view who do not like our Holy Father very much, or else you have been duped by them into asking their questions for them.
YFC, it is never an issue of ‘liking’ the Holy Father or not ‘liking’ him. Stop duping yourself and others by making that which is far and beyond above the personal to be merely a construct of fussy, human pettiness.
As to the rest “you seem to want to entrap him with the biased point of view,” you have summed up, at least in my opinion, your whole angle here on CCD. You project quite a lot.
YFC, – – – – YOU did not answer one of the questions asked, YOU merely ATTACKED someone asking questions.
Why not simply answer the questions ?
You personally may have sinned again, by avoiding possibly helping someone become a Catholic.
YFC, you need to start reading everything this Pope says and pay attention to his actions which sometimes conflict with his words.
Sometimes his statements also conflict as well depending upon the audience.
He can be very confusing.
And this is evidenced in the Vatican Press, etc.
(Is this because you support Sodomy marriage and sodomy has addled your brain ?)
1) Becoming Catholic is not about pleasing a current Pope. Many people fail in carrying out their duty, many appear to be failing in their duty because they are approaching matters in a way we do not understand. But if a person understands that the Catholic Church is that established by Christ, that person should do as He asks, not letting the ways of men, even the Pope, dissuade him.
2)Same as #1.
3)Men lead by way of their God given abilities and the formation that they have received in life and in the Faith. We are ‘all’ human. That said, ALL the teachings of Jesus are important.
4)The Eucharist is the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ. That said, #3 applies and those in leadership positions are still subject to the formation they receive and act accordingly. The ‘liberal’ culture of allowing and trying to make endless excuses so as to keep groups intact – or at least appear to be intact – has wreaked havoc on society. (The West seems to have adopted the mentality of a disaffected teen with regard to religious duty.) Sadly, the Church has not proved immune to this epidemic. (She often is seen to respond by way of her hierarchy like a parent of said teens, perpetually making allowances in order to keep the ‘kids’ at home.) And the it’s-all-good mantra is proving inadequate when it comes to dismissing the very real disconnects you point out in your post. (But the little ones of the household are increasingly scandalized, confused by the lack of order and the true charity of discipline.) Again, however, #1 applies.
5) Again, refer to #1,2,3. True repentance is paramount. And not because any one Pope says so, but rather because Christ has said so. That is why the devolution into perpetual slackening is a rather confusing evangelization technique. At least for evangelizing the actual Faith. It doesn’t work very well on disaffected teens either because many just act that way in order to push buttons and see how much chaos they can impose on Mom and Dad and the rest of the household, without a care for the little ones or even the home itself.
That said, I pray you continue your questioning and look to the Church in historical context, but most importantly in Her intimate connection with Jesus Christ that cannot be denied.
Well said, Ann Malley! When I became a Catholic it was the eternal truth of Church teachings I embraced, which included the papacy and the magisterium. I wa especially blessed to have entered the Church headed by Pope Benedict XVIII. What many Protestants may now be seeing though, Ann, are the same problems in the Catholic Church that they’re encountering in their own churches. They might not seek any further because they’re so tired of shifting teachings, weak and unfaithful shepherds, no one at the helm…I don’t know what the statistics are, but I’m guessing there will be fewer converts as the years progress for the simple reason this pope is saying our churches are pretty much the same. I hear what he is saying. I see what he is doing. What would Sir Thomas More have done if the pope had granted a divorce to Henry VIII?
Oops. Pope Benedict VI! ☺️
” I hear what he is saying. I see what he is doing. What would Sir Thomas More have done if the pope had granted a divorce to Henry VIII?”
Excellent question, Dana. The situation revolves around, as with all matters of authority, where one will draw the line. And when that line is never drawn or increasingly erased and merely sketched or negated, it not only confuses people who need clarity and that which is visible, but it undermines the credibility/authority of those given the duty of drawing said lines. Not out of cruelty or a Pharisaical cruelty, but out of a real need to get down to the business of working toward salvation which we must all do.
“Men and women of the Mafia, please change your lives, convert, stop doing evil,” the Pope said at a prayer vigil on Friday. “I ask on my knees and for your own good.
“This life you have now, it will not give you pleasure, it will not give you joy, it will not give you happiness. The power, the money you have now from so many dirty deals, from so many Mafia crimes, blood-stained money, blood-stained power – you will not be able to take that with you to the other life.”
“There is still time not to end up in hell, which awaits you if you continue on this road,” Pope Francis said. “You had a papa and a mamma. Think of them, weep a little and convert.”
What’s really sad to me is that the Pope would get rid of Cardinal Burke and then turn around and ask Rick Warren for his thoughts.
Actually, this conference has a designed, and darker, purpose. First, one must question the need — ever — for an “interreligious conference”. The Catholic Church has the complete Truth at its core; ecumenism detracts and confuses what is clear and holy already.
Second, it is no coincidence that this conference follows on the heels of the awful Synod, just concluded. Catholic Liberals, aside from understanding the need to revise, or destroy, Catholic doctrine, believe that this destruction must take place on a universalist stage. In this way, Vatican II Catholics are much like Free Masons, worshipping on the altar of Man, and what Man can do. Tossed into the scrap-heap is the super-natural, what God can do. You will hear of more and more ecumenical meetings, conferences, papers, and other foolishness leading up to the 2015 Synod. The Vatican is trying to get a drum-beat of world opinion here to better intimidate the already weak Synod “fathers” next year.
Third, the two polarities will try to serve to extinguish what the Catholic Church should be teaching: (1) that marriage is a sacred trust from God that cannot be broken (and should rarely be annulled, not like the nutty idea of Pope Francis of creating a free, assembly-line annulment process): and (2) that marriage alone can be recognized by the Catholic Church; (3) that only a Man-Woman combination will work here; and (4) within the marriage, the Man is the Christ-figure, who must lead and sacrifice all for his family; the complementarity occurs when the woman provides her unique spiritual gifts to support the man, and to cooperate with God in creating and sustaining life into this world.
Of course, the sodomite-loving Vatican and clergy want none of this. The 2015 Synod (and this crazy “interreligious” conference) should be avoided at all costs. Teach the Catholic Truth, Pope Francis, lead by humbling yourself before Christ and Mary. Your Liberalism is as offensive to practicing Catholics as it is tedious to anyone with an intellect.
So you oppose a meeting of religions to support the complimentarity of man and woman.
Got it.
When I first read the title of this article I thought it read: ” Pope Traditional Conference on Open Marriage “.
Just kidding. I in personally would be fine with divorced and cohabiting receiving communion. The problem I find is that this Pope’s Synod is a stalking horse for sodomy, Gay marriage, married priests and female ordination. Once you open the dike, it floods.
“The problem is not that we are sinners,” Pope Francis told the congregation at his morning Mass on May 17. “The problem is not repenting of sin, not being ashamed of what we have done.”
No repentance of Mortal Sin; no Heaven for eternity.
CCC: ” 1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity.
Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, “eternal fire.”
The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs. ”
CCC: ” 1451 Among the penitent’s acts contrition occupies first place.
Contrition is sorrow of the soul
and detestation for the sin committed,
together with the resolution not to sin again. ”
CCC: ” 1791 This ignorance (of mortal sin) can often be imputed to personal responsibility.
This is the case when a man takes little trouble to find out what is true and good,
or when conscience is by degrees almost blinded through the habit of committing sin.
In such cases, the person is culpable for the evil he commits.”
The Magisterium of the Church has given us the BIBLE and the “CATECHISM of the CATHOLIC CHURCH, Second Edition”.
Everyone must ask themselves, what is your excuse for not reading them ?
At your particular judgment at death, how will you be able to explain away your ignorance ?
CCC: ” 1022 Each man receives his eternal retribution in his immortal soul at the very moment of his death,
in a particular judgment that refers his life to Christ:
either entrance into the blessedness of heaven – through a purification or immediately, — or immediate and everlasting damnation. “
Yet the Pope appointed heretics
Kasper (of those validly married to another and living in adultery to receive Holy Communion),
and Dannell (supporting homosexual acts)
as honored and featured speakers at the 2014 Synod, so they could spew their heresy including but not limited to –
Sacrilege against the Body and Blood of our Lord.
” Partaking of the Supper Unworthily” – – – 1 Cor 11:27-30
Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord.
Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup.
For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself.
That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died. ”
This Pope loves creating confusion “making a mess”. He knew Kasper and Danneel would gain world-wide publicity for their heretical causes.
The Pope just appointed Bishop Blasé Cupich who supports giving Holy Communion to those publically obstinate in mortal sin to the Chicago Diocese.
Pay attention to the actions of this Pope as well as all of his words. So you will know the real Pope.
How dare the Pope do something against your will.
So ED who is the “real” pope? Are you saying that “this Pope” Francis is not the “real Pope”?
Ahhh, Francis, saying one thing and doing (and meaning) another. In fact, Francis largely ignores sin, as do many, many Catholic bishops. The ring of “mercy” and “be merciful” reverberates throughout all of Liberal Catholicism. Too bad that the examples often cited by them, e.g., Christ not condemning the adulterous woman, do not mean the elimination of sin.
Christ very much cares about sin, and said so throughout his ministry. The Bible is replete with Christ’s views that many will be lost. Lost to what? To sin.
Well, so what, didn’t Christ’s death resolve all this? Yes, if you are a Protestant. In reality, Christ said that he “died for many” Matt. 26:28, “For this is my blood of the new testament, which shall be shed for many unto remission of sins.” Sure, there are biblical quotes also used to show that Christ’s sacrifice was for the sin of the world, and the like. But, Christ spoke often of Hell, so sin must have some meaning. And, Mary, at Fatima, spoke of the awfulness of Hell and the many that were there (not that most clergy believe in the “apparition” of Mary in any respect).
This conference, and others like it, are unnecessary, and intended to do harm to the Faithful family by recognizing the sinful, the fornicators, the sodomites, the adulterers, as all having some legitimate stake in the claim to being a “family” and deserving of “mercy”. Just think: what if the adulterous woman had told Christ, “Lord, they judged me. I was doing nothing wrong, and love the (married) man that I was with. Because I love him and he loves me, we are not sinning, as we feel so right for each other, and that what we are doing is good.”
You sin of bearing false witness against the Pope is possibly grave and might need to be confessed before you could receive communion worthily.
You are so lost, “Anonymous,” except when standing up to demand rights for sodomy. The Pope is a public figure, not a God, and is subject to the Faithful scrutinizing his actions and statements. If criticism is true, regardless of whether it is aimed at the Pope, then the 8th Commandment is not invoked.
Further, as shown in the example of St. Paul bringing up a major scandal to St. Peter (and St. Peter accepting it), imminent dangers to the Faith can be brought to the Pope and in ways to warn of the scandal. Spend a little time with Thomas Aquinas in the Summa Theologica where this is discussed. So, no, it is not a sin to criticize the Pope.
And, in fact, the conduct of Francis is deeply troubling to many Catholics that actually go to Church and practice their Faith (and who also pray for the well-being of the Pope and his ultimate fidelity to the Church’s teachings). The Synod was a disturbing glimpse into the Church’s leadership, where many of its bishops and cardinals are clearly ignorant of what the Church teachings, or do not care.
While Francis is wily and did not say much, his failures to control things is itself an issue. Further, he is clearly taking steps to better assure getting his (Liberal) way in 2015. Francis teams with reprehensible bishops and cardinals in this regard that seem intent on simply making up a whole new Church. His cruel and demeaning dismissal of Cardinal Burke, an exemplary Vatican Canonist, is yet more proof that Francis simply cannot abide anything that reminds us of the Church as it is, and was, and must be.
There is no right to sodomy.
Pope Francis speaks about sin almost every day.
No one has ever been able to point out (without taking something he said out of context) anything that Pope Francis has said or done that is against Scripture or Tradition or the Magisterium.
Cardinal Burke has defended the Pope from those who take his words out of context and distort their meaning. He said that they are doing it for their own ends.
I think if you were united with the Pope and had understanding of the Church, you would realize exactly why Cardinal Burke can not do what he needs to do and be the Prefect of the Apostolic Signatura. There is work that needs doing that no one but Cardinal Burke can accomplish. He will now be free to do this important work. Many souls are endangered.
Your Eminence, you said in your recent interview with Vida Nueva that you have a strong sense the Church is like a ship “without a helm.” Some observers are seeing statements like this as an insult against the Pope. Would you like to correct this?
Yes, I would love to. The fact of the matter is the interviewer simply asked me the question: there are many people who are confused at this point, and I think he used the image, or I did, that people on the ship of the Church, because of this confusion, are feeling some sea sickness. Many people are anxious and concerned and many people have been in contact with me. They say, “Where are we going? What is the Church really teaching?” And my response to them has always been that we know the Church’s teaching, it’s in the Catechism, it’s in the Tradition, and we simply have to cling to that, and with that we know we’re going to do the right thing.
I wasn’t in any way commenting directly on the Holy Father, and it’s unfortunate that people are using that. But certain media simply want to keep portraying me as living my life as an opponent to Pope Francis, which I’m not at all. I’ve been serving him in the Apostolic Signatura and in other ways I continue to serve him. And I know that part of my service is to speak the truth about situations, and we simply are in a situation right now in the Church where many people are confused.
Anonymous, there was no ability (reply box) to respond to your question about living as brother and sister –
Many times there is no going back since original spouses have remarried, or their are children of the second marriage, etc., etc.
When people live as brother and sister (“complete continence” / no sexual activity) they are no longer committing adultery, and after going to Confession they are able to receive the Sacraments.
Please read the “CATECHISM of the CATHOLIC CHURCH, Second Edition” :
#1649, 1650, 1651.
CCC: ” 1650 Today there are numerous Catholics in many countries who have recourse to civil divorce and contract new civil unions.
In fidelity to the words of Jesus Christ – “Whoever divorces his wife and marries another, commits adultery against her; and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery” the Church maintains that a new union cannot be recognized as valid, if the first marriage was.
If the divorced are remarried civilly, they find themselves in a situation that objectively contravenes God’s law. Consequently, they cannot receive Eucharistic communion as long as this situation persists. For the same reason, they cannot exercise certain ecclesial responsibilities.
Reconciliation through the sacrament of Penance can be granted only to those who have repented for having violated the sign of the covenant and of fidelity to Christ, and who are committed to living in complete continence. “
One of the great services provided by this site is the ability for people to discuss issues of importance to them and the church universal. While open discussion and bringing out the truth of the faith, it is somewhat depressing that people find it ok to continually judge others, their actions and their motives. It is just too easy for some to call others sinners. It is too easy to call others heretics. It is too easy to quote sections of the Catechism and point fingers. The newly elected President of the USCCB, this morning in his opening homely at the annual meeting of Bishops, referred to when he was a pastor and visited parishioner homes. He said that he never walked into their homes and started telling them how to rearrange the furniture. But he did invite them to join him on the journey of accepting God, His teachings, and his way of life. He invited them back to the Church where they would be joined with other parishioners in the quest for a Christ filling life. Jesus didn’t have much use for those who kept quoting the law. The Pharisees insisted on strict loyalty to the Scriptures and to the traditions of the rabbis. By the time of Christ they had degenerated into fanaticism. Christ rebuked them for this. We are here to invite people to God and His Church. We are not here to make everyone pass a litmus test before inviting them in. Finding Christ in our lives is a journey, one that takes time to mature and time to live to its fullest. It is fine to quote the Catechism, because it is what we believe, but we must use it as a guide to our behavior and beliefs, something that someday we will understand, believe and use as a guide to life. It is a reference book for life, not a tool of damnation.
Bob One I don’t want feel good welcoming messages, the Church does not have to conform to me I must conform to it. I must decrease so Christ might increase….Message to the Bishops PREACH THE TRUTH…. NOT TOLERANCE….yes some will, so let them, many left our Blessed Savior when they could not conform to His word, this is nothing new.,, Smaller but Holier I will take that
And the fidelity of the few will evangelize without words. Cajoling someone into the Church by way of half truths or no truth is no conversion.
Canisius, when God called me back to the Church, I was nothing but a mess of sin. I did not change overnight because I did not know what all the sins were but over time as I found out things were sins, I renounced them and repented of having committed them and confessed them. This is an ongoing process, still continuing.
Well Done Anon, well done…I accept the Churches teachings I may not like all of them but I accept and try to live by them. I never once demanded they be altered for me and my sins, not once…healthy fear of Hell did the trick for me which is slowly but surely turning into a greater love for Christ..