The following comes from a Jan. 2 story by Father Robert Sirico in the Detroit News.
….For commentators accustomed over the past 30 years of explaining the meaning of dense theological and philosophical magisterial texts which were the norm prior to this pontificate, the simplicity and spontaneity of Pope Francis’ style can be confusing and somewhat deceptive.
Whereas his predecessor had largely taught in very precise words and nuanced argument, Francis speaks boldly through effective and moving gestures. One tender and manifestly genuine embrace of a deformed man is worth an entire encyclical on love. And in the age of the Internet, it is more instantly accessible to millions of people.
It is no surprise that the man who took as his model and name the model of il poverello of Assisi would place the poor as a central concern of his pontificate: their dignity, their rights and their sustenance. Yet, the spontaneous gestures and the impromptu manner in which they are displayed ought not to beguile us into thinking this pope is offering a superficial dichotomy between left and right; between capitalism and socialism. To think that any pope, but especially this pope, is animated in his concern for the poor and vulnerable by a particular political ideology is to miss him completely.
While renouncing the notion that the market alone is sufficient to meet all human needs, Francis is also prepared to denounce a “welfare mentality” that creates a dependency on the part of the poor and reduces the Church to the role of being just another bureaucratic NGO. The complexity of his thought surprises some, on both the Right (some of whom worry, needlessly, that he is a liberation theologian) and the Left (who are already using his words to foment a political “Francis Revolution” in his name).
Such tendencies reveal a rather anemic understanding of this man but also of Catholicism, which has historically been comfortable balancing the tensions of apparent paradoxes (Divine/human; Virgin/Mother; etc.). It is too facile a temptation to collapse 2,000 years of tradition, commentary and lived experience into four or five politically-correct hot button sound bites that are the priority, not of the Church, but of propagandists with an agenda.
If one wants to understand Francis’ thinking about the poor, it would be good to look objectively at his much talked about, but little-read Apostolic Exhortation, “The Joy of the Gospel.” It soon becomes apparent that much of this Exhortation is an extension of a keen insight that Jorge Bergoglio had when he was Archbishop of Buenos Aires:
We cannot respond with truth to the challenge of eradicating exclusion and poverty if the poor continue to be objects, targets of the action of the state and other organizations in a paternalistic and aid-based sense, instead of subjects, where the state and society create social conditions that promote and safeguard their rights and allow them to be builders of their own destiny.
As one who has promoted a free economy as a normative way to assisting people out of poverty, I find two innovative challenges in these words which could go a long way to depoliticizing the debate about wealth and poverty.
Imagine if all of those presently engaged in the debate on these matters began to ask questions such as, “What excludes the poor from the process of prosperity?” or “What would a society look like that no longer considers the poor as objects of paternalistic aid but rather as potential shapers of their own destiny?”
The particular details of policy prescriptions are not the heart and soul of Francis’ incredible attraction on the part of people throughout the world. It is not his political motivation that moves us as we witness his embrace by — and of — frail human life.
In a monumental and unanticipated way Pope Francis is changing the tired conversations of the past and inviting us to engage in a process of healing so desperately needed in our world today. Almost single-handedly he is changing the way in which people view Catholicism, not by changing Catholicism, but by retrieving many of its own treasured traditions and putting them out front….
To read the entire article, click here.
If one tries to identify and correct the causes of poverty in our country they are called socialist or worse, communist. Yet the question asked in this article is fantastic: what would a world without a large amount of poverty look like. I don’t know the answer, but I believe that it would be worthwhile to attempt to describe it. What would it be like if unemployment was only 3%? Remember those days? What if every family made a living wage? What if everyone had a nice place to live? What if everyone could get a good education so that they could ply a trade or go to college? What would our world be like?
No Bob one….it is not true what you just said….you keep missing the real issues, we are all for caring for the poor but not the socialist way…OK get it!
Abeca, I seldom really disagree with your comments. In this case, I think it is you who don’t get it. I don’t know what your definition of a socialist way is, but that is not the poor. My point is simple: if we all were caring for the poor, poverty would be lessened by a wide margin. The statistics point out, however, that we are not doing a good job with minimizing poverty. We are very often treating the symptoms, but not the cause. We have wonderful agencies that help feed the hungry, provide clothes and shelter to the needy, half-way houses for those in addiction, etc. But, in my opinion, we do a less than adequate job of reducing the causes of poverty. Again, in my opinion, I don’t believe that we press our legislators enough to get them to change the system. We don’t press the titans of industry to give back to the community, to treat their workers fairly and pay them living wages, etc. That is not socialism or communism. That is using the capitalistic system in a fair way. Our Pope has said that the economic system should exist for the benefit of the people and that the people should not exist for the benefit of the economic system. A bank president recently received a bonus of $20,000,000. At ten dollars an hour, that would have provided nearly a thousand jobs for people out of work. Where is the fairness of that?
What was “not true” about what Bob said? And did Bob One call for socialism?
Certainly donations to St. Vincent’s DePaul are not going to reduce unemployment to 3%, provide a living wage, a nice place to live, or a good education – so if your solution is some variant of that, it is inadequate to the task, as helpful to other problems as it may be.
Brian S below is my response…I’m having an anemic episode….sorry not enough energy to reply
Prayers for you, Abeca. Be well.
God bless!
Brian S sorry for poking fun but this article stated this “Such tendencies reveal a rather anemic understanding of this man but also of Catholicism, ”
They used the word anemic…..kinda crazy so I thought I use it since it is more of a current dilemma I am feeling with my health and thought I poke some fun at it too. So lets relax take off our shoes. We can all agree that we need to take care of the poor. We can remind those who are very wealthy of their moral duty. Yes to all that. Praise God that our Pope reminds us all to do our part. God bless him! Our Pope knows very well with whom he is speaking too, and it is not about socialism or communism. John Paul II was against those secular forces of governing and for sure this Pope is too.
But what sets me off is people are distracted from what really matters the most….. Salvation! The real cure for poverty and for us struggling as well…..even for the rich too….is their salvation. If we look to that and make it a number one priority then you betcha that the poor will be taken care of, the rich will use their gifts to empower God”s causes etc, the poor won’t look as they appear today, you will be able to acknowledge who really are the poor and see Jesus in their suffering and suffer with them just to save another brother and sister.
Brian S sorry for poking fun but this article stated this “Such tendencies reveal a rather anemic understanding of this man but also of Catholicism, ”
They used the word anemic…..kinda crazy so I thought I use it since it is more of a current dilemma I am feeling with my health and thought I poke some fun at it too. So lets relax take off our shoes. We can all agree that we need to take care of the poor. We can remind those who are very wealthy of their moral duty. Yes to all that. Praise God that our Pope reminds us all to do our part. God bless him! Our Pope knows very well with whom he is speaking too, and it is not about socialism or communism. John Paul II was against those secular forces of governing and for sure this Pope is too. continued
Continued
But what sets me off is people are distracted from what really matters the most….. Salvation! The real cure for poverty and for us struggling as well…..even for the rich too….is their salvation. If we look to that and make it a number one priority then you betcha that the poor will be taken care of, the rich will use their gifts to empower God”s causes etc, the poor won’t look as they appear today, you will be able to acknowledge who really are the poor and see Jesus in their suffering and suffer with them just to save another brother and sister ……
If you took away poverty, you will not need a heaven, for poverty comes in different examples. The poor woman who gave her last coin to the church…that woman is more rich in what truly matters than anyone who just gives to appear good. Not that it doesn’t count if anyone gave but that poor woman has gained a certain virtue many lack today. No government told that poor woman to give her last coin. But today you have the government force people to give just so they can fund abortions etc…
Thank you Ann M, I really appreciate your prayers…you are a good soul! : )
Bob one you said “If one tries to identify and correct the causes of poverty in our country they are called socialist or worse, communist.”
Its not true. Now if those views are within the boundaries of socialist or even communist, then call it what it is. These comments are same ole same ole. I would hope by now you would try to understand the concerns many have in how the “not poor” are abusing our system. Its insulting to insinuate that those on the opposite side do not care for the poor. Its just your current failure of a cure is not really working, in case anyone haven’t noticed! The boat is sinking just because ten are not poor and one is…..so we help the one while the 10 sink the ship. I say catch the 10, save the one so we don’t sink the rest of the us….
Well it doesn’t matter. You just started off your comments with false accusations, just because you don’t understand doesn’t make it so. And perhaps your views are within those boundaries that do not work. If your points were valid then believe you me, there would no assumption of it being socialist or even communist. But you obviously refuse to understand the arguments set before you in the past, so you just prefer to throw them out the window and that is why we are not getting anywhere. Not even close. Perhaps you are part of the cause for the democratic party and that is why we don’t see eye to eye.
I haven’t read your other reply to me, sorry I didn’t get a chance to, I don’t have much time to respond today. Pax Christi
Yes, Abeca, if one tries to identify the causes of poverty in our country they are called socialist or communist. Even when one restrains their cures to the papal encyclicals in a publication aimed at observant Catholics. For evidence, note Steve P’s replies to me, here and elsewhere.
You jumped to “socialist” side and “other side” terminology immediately yourself. Hope you feel better soon.
Brian S , good comment. I just read the 4 above long comments from Abeca. What is she trying to say. Too many words turn into different thoughts. that seem to turn her comments around and confuse whatever she is trying to say.
Its OK James,,,,everyone has different levels of spirituality i don’t expect you to understand me……just yet….God’s graces be with you as you hopefully continue to grow in Him, hopefully that is your desire within your heart, to keep growing, as it is mine. : )
just don’t forget to remove your homosexual ideals behind, for they have no place in heaven.
PAX CHRISTI
plus James you ask Brian S as if he would be able to explain my comments to you, how can he, he is in the same boat as you…ha ha
Economic data for the past fifty years proves trickle-down works. It works too well. Just ask the majority of Americans. It works to keep mobility down. It works to keep worker’s income down. It works to keep worker’s optimism down. It works to keep down a united unionized workforce. It creates stagnation for most of the nation. That must be why Republicans refuse to offer or support any other progressive reform ideas for taxation or leveling income inequality. Consequently, the wealth gap keeps growing within a shrinking demographic at a cancer hungry rate.
God did not create everyone equal in all ways.
“For the poor you will always have with you, but you will not always have me” – Jesus. Mt 26:11.
(Jesus does not lie.)
St. Paul on idleness (capital sin – laziness) 2 Thess 3:6-14.
Some people make a job of being poor and spend their time milking the system.
We should only be assisting those who are mentally or physically unable to help themselves. Otherwise sloth will take over.
Bob One $50 Trillion dollars spent on the war on poverty, and we still lost. Causes of poverty are not the lack of government programs but the lack of morality. 70 percent of black children are born out of wedlock, I believe its 40 percent for Hispanic kids, right there is a reason. Education or lack of it, the unions with their strangleholds will not implement any real reforms that will reduce their power, there is another reason. I will sum it up in one phrase the destruction of the family.
Canisius….In 1904 half the population of New York City lived below the poverty line.
Half. Can you imagine? The poor were so numerous that they nearly outnumbered everyone else.
Today, less than 20 percent of New Yorkers live in poverty. That’s still a serious problem, but it’s a far cry from 50 percent. Clearly, we did something right. But in today’s political arena, we don’t talk about what we did right. We talk about what we’re doing wrong. We spend so much time talking about our problems and failures that we seem to have forgotten our nation’s great victories. This historical amnesia is a dangerous mistake. It poisons our hearts with pessimism. It blinds us to the lessons and solutions we need. Most New Yorkers have no idea how prevalent poverty used to be — or how their predecessors made it go away. And they’re not the only ones. “We have spent $15 trillion from the federal government fighting poverty,” said Rep. Paul Ryan on Fox News last month, “and look at where we are, the highest poverty rates in a generation, 15 percent of Americans live in poverty.”Ryan is speaking on behalf of millions of Americans who believe that the War on Poverty was a failure, when in fact it’s one of the greatest success stories in our nation’s history. If Ryan thinks 15 percent is high, he should go back a hundred years when the poverty rate was three times that.
The reason that many proposals “for the poor” are called “socialist or worse, communist” is because they are nakedly class-warfare-based agendas (“income inequality” = the current clarion call), which ever increase the power of the state to re-distribute wealth to those who will compliantly support an ever more powerful state.
The modern central states of today, be they the US, or western European democracies, or, just down the scale only a bit, Kim Jong-Un’s N. Korea or Fidel’s Cuba, all seek increasing ownership of the people as well as an ever-increasing ownership of the means of production, whether directly by fiat, or by onerous tax or EPA or other legislation: all these actions are meant to correspondingly feed the great Leviathan of state and the new socialist ruling class who are the true beneficiaries. Cardinal George put it very well, in an address in 2013, where he described how the Church’s concern for the poor was being twisted in a new way by politicians so as to use it against the Church’s very own moral and spiritual leadership.
Today’s younger Catholics very often do not even know the long history, over 100 years of social encylicals, condemning socialism and communism, from Leo XIII (Humanum Genus, 1884, see n. 27), Benedict XV, Pius XI, on up through Ben. XVI.
The redistribution of wealth over the last 50 years has been entirely to the richest classes, and yes, it has been done by the power of the State, but for the benefit of the richest who control the ever-compliant governments they install.
Steve, your fantasy about redistribution moving from rich to poor simply ignores well documented economic history as well as the easiest common-sense “eye-tests” available to all.
In the modern age, obscene wealth is used to justify obscene poverty. The wealthy, who often inherit or are appointed by some means to their positions of wealth and power, are celebrated, not for what they’ve done, but for what they have. The poor, who likewise inherit much of their socio-economic predisposition, though hampered from rising from their position, are nevertheless demonized for their lack of wealth and stability, and demonized further for the very basic efforts to gain such.
Until these and the plethora of other dynamic, elite-supporting structures in both business and popular psychology are addressed, the odds of the brewing class struggles working themselves out in any peaceful, serene or beneficial manner are dodgy at best. But when society wakes up to the reality that the majority of us share more in common with the lives, hopes, aspirations and struggles of the very lowest of us than we do with the bankrolled wealthy celebrities and executives above, then perhaps we as a nation might have a hope of moving back towards the just, verdant and equal society we’ve struggled to realize throughout our modern history.
Republicans claim higher salaries mean lower corporate earnings that crimp jobs and jobs creation. This is usually wrapped in the minimum wage or global competition and applied across the board.
But, you know — reality: The Census Bureau’s Table H-3 says that adjusted for inflation, median incomes have barely budged since 1980 — $46,961 then, $51,179 now — and fallen from their 1999 peak of $56,154. In the richest nation on earth, half the country, at least, can’t save. Now if people can’t save, no politician can “reform” Social Security and Medicare like Republicans say we have to. Plus, demand for programs like Food Stamps necessarily grows, together with the taxes to pay for them. And if consumer spending gets squeezed because disposable income gets squeezed, then corporate earnings in a consumer economy get squeezed. Economists call this death spiral a “negative feedback loop”. So Republican policies weaken the economy and actually defeat Republican goals. But Republicans insist the nation must support their policies. Republicans say the alternative is disaster.
Dom Helder Camara, Archbishop of Olinda and Recife, Brazil said in his much repeated quote: “When I give food to the poor they call me a saint. When I ask why they are poor, they call me a communist.”
Amen
hahaha sorry but I couldn’t help but laugh. First off, Abbot Aiden only paints a small portion but not the whole picture….because it depends on who is asking and who is saying, right? Also I couldn’t but help but think that with the Amen YFC gave is due to his present state of morality in how he thinks. For instance……. “if I share the truth about sodomy, they call me a bigot and if I ask why they think sodomy is good, they call me a hater. but if I high five them in their lifestyles choices away from God, they make me their friend”. See what I mean? Right is right, wrong is wrong! If you stoop so low as to make such statements, then you must doubt in what you are standing for. After all, tell me who you voted for and I’ll tell you what you are representing, Folks its all black and white OK…its not rocket science.
Sorry YFC I know, I know you are going to get mad at me because you will say that I made this a “gay” issue again……oops couldn’t help it, I just had my doze of iron and some green tea..the energy is back. LOL
One must take into consideration the political situation when Camara was alive. In his Country there was a military dictatorship.
Dom Helder Camara was a communist who pushed the illicit Liberation Theology which ultimately violates God’s 7th Commandment: “Thou Shall Not Steal”.
Unfortunately, when decent people go too far in pushing their own political beliefs they get off track.
It is unfortunate that today’s young people do not know about Rerum Novarum and Laborem Exercens. Certainly the Magisterium of the Church has supported working people. Also, I remember priests affiliated with the labor movement back in the 40’s and 50’s- you don’t see that very much anymore.
A major loss to the workers’ movement was the loss of the Church influence in labor unions. The void was filled, or re-filled by others. Churchmen who seek to extend influence now are denounced as Liberation Theologists, socialist, or dupes.
From the end of the article: “Almost single-handedly he is changing the way in which people view Catholicism, not by changing Catholicism, but by retrieving many of its own treasured traditions and putting them out front….” Excuse me but I beg to differ. Did you ever hear before Francis’ incredibly liberal public statements, either from a Pope or Doctor of the Church on official Church teaching that “even atheists can go to heaven”? Our Lord says the opposite, and so Francis comment is heretical, not to be taken so lightly and dismissed. But wait, how can this be that a pope can preach heresy, if he is supposed to be infallible in theology, morals, and values? Pray the rosary to remain strong, firm, and knowledgeable with the courage to defend of our true Roman Catholic faith, not dismiss it or be slothful about it.
He did not say that. It was media spin.
Then, what did he say?
Here is the quote and the spin and the explanation:
https://www.catholicvote.org/what-pope-francis-really-said-about-atheists/
***** IMPORTANT
Mere statements or writings by a Pope are NOT infallible.
For infallibility he must proclaim by a definitive act a DOCTINE pertaining to Faith or Morals.
CCC: ” 891 “The Roman Pontiff, head of the college of bishops, enjoys this infallibility in virtue of his office, when, as supreme pastor and teacher of all the faithful – who confirms his brethren in the faith he proclaims by a definitive act a doctrine pertaining to faith or morals. . . .
The infallibility promised to the Church is also present in the body of bishops when, together with Peter’s successor, they exercise the supreme Magisterium,” above all in an Ecumenical Council.
When the Church through its supreme Magisterium proposes a doctrine “for belief as being divinely revealed,” and as the teaching of Christ, the definitions “must be adhered to with the obedience of faith.”
This infallibility extends as far as the deposit of divine Revelation itself.”
The “CATECHISM of the CATHOLIC CHURCH, Second Edition” is from the Magisterium and contains the Doctrine of the Faith.
Popes Francis, Benedict, and John Paul II have all exhorted us to study the CCC so that we will know our Faith in entirety.
Without the CCC we could easily be taught other peoples error – whether accidentally or on purpose.
“What Catholics REALLY Believe SOURCE”
https://whatcatholicsreallybelieve.com/
” While renouncing the notion that the market alone is sufficient to meet all human needs, Francis is also prepared to denounce a “welfare mentality” that creates a dependency on the part of the poor and reduces the Church to the role of being just another bureaucratic NGO.”
Where is the secular media ?
What do US Bishops have to say about this dependency, and being just another NGO (non-governmental agency)?
Jesus taught the redistribution of wealth and how to do it:19:16-29pp — Mk 10:17-30; Lk 18:18-30
16 Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?” 17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments.” 18 “Which ones?” the man inquired. Jesus replied, ” ‘Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’ ” 20 “All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?” 21 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” 22 When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth. 23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven
Any Redistribution of Wealth must be VOLUNTARY only.
Jesus never taught us to steal (take) other people’s goods.
Any government or religious movement that proposes the TAKING of the goods of others is false teaching.
Governments can be guilty of stealing the possessions of others by making laws.
Just as governments are guilty of the murdering of unborn babies.
CCC: ” 2411 Contracts are subject to commutative justice which regulates exchanges between persons and between institutions in accordance with a strict respect for their rights.
Commutative justice obliges strictly;
it requires safeguarding property rights,
paying debts,
and fulfilling obligations freely contracted.
Without commutative justice, no other form of justice is possible.
One distinguishes commutative justice from legal justice which concerns what the citizen owes in fairness to the community,
and from distributive justice which regulates what the community owes its citizens in proportion to their contributions and needs.”
Helder – Camara’s glib quote is a classic put – off that begs the glaring question: Why the virtual approval of powerful Statism and statist rulers by episcopal leadership? It exactly portrays the socialist – activist as morally more highly inspired than their troglodyte critics. Why did the US bishops, much like sheep instead of pastors, eagerly approve of Obamacare, which will cost the lives of untold thousands of thousands? Why are same US bishops ready to adopt ever more laws to obtain “income – fairness”? Why the push for massive immigration, which will cause perhaps the tipping – point for ultimate social upheaval? All these agendas give ever more power to socialist ruling class, even as, like Dom Helder – Camara’s Brazil, we societally sink into communist-style economic chaos. And our fine bishops do not see this?
1) US Bishops did not “eagerly approve of Obamacare”, in contrast to that imagined embrace, they have led efforts against its anti-Catholic mandate. https://cnsnews.com/news/article/100-catholic-bishops-oppose-obama-s-contraceptive-mandate
2) The reasons for Bishops to seek justice among the classes are outline quite well in Papal encyclicals you claim to have read. It is simply unreasonable, as Pius XI emphasized, for the capitialist to collect the entireity of the surplus from increased production techniques or other improvements, while the laborer is treated as just another of many inputs, to be minimized like so much fuel oil.
3) The push for massive immigration is coming from the capitalists who benefit directly from the wage competition it spurs. Witness the endorsement of amnesty from the US Chamber of Commerce, for example.
To ignore that fact that the Democrat Party is pushing for amnesty as well is intellectual fraud
And a JESUIT at that!
See folks this is what I am talking about…..it always depends who is saying what and why? Take it from where it’s coming out of…..the rest people can discern.
Religion (be it Christian, Muslim, Jewish, or Buddhist) and State should work together, along with individual citizens, to alleviate suffering.
Some things can be done by the Church, others cannot; some items can be taken care of by private citizens, others by corporations.
I cannot understand why a few people in here are so afraid of the government doing its job in trying to help the poor — this is not a “private” issue, but something for the good of the community.
Why is it the job of government to “try” to help the poor? This is a distortion of any consitutional principle one can think of. And the U.S. Government, in its so-called efforts, fails miserably. One example is enough- Haiti – come up with more examples if you wish, it’s always the same. 4 years later, some 300,000 Haitians still live in camps. Of the $9.3 Billion pledged world-wide, only $2.5 Billion actually made it to Haiti and 93% of that either went to the UN or international NGOs. The U.S. awarded 1,500 contracts for aid, but only 23 went to Haitian companies. Wash DC contractors received over 1/3 of the funds. The Pentagon sent bills to the State Department to get reimbursed for sending troops. The Haitian prime minister has requested that aid be stopped, that 40% of the aid went to support the foreigners handing it out, allowing them to buy 250 Toyota Land Cruisers in a month at a local dealership at 40K pounds apiece so they could drive to the beach on the weekend. The US government is the absolutely most inept and incompetent dispenser of aid because of nothing other than its own greedy self-interest. The government is the last entity to be trusted in any of this. It blows trillions on foreign wars which accomplish nothing and blows billions in a self-aggrandizement exercise of so-called poverty-relief.
Our Lord and Redeemer Jesus Christ told us to help the the poor. What He told us follows the Catholic principle of Subsidiarity. He did not tell us to expect the government to help the poor. Again, He told us to do it.
Thank you Father Robert Sirico! A voice in the desert! Help the poor OFF welfare. God Bless Our Holy Father, Pope Francis!
On balance, the current papacy has, so far, done more harm than good for the Church. Making excuses, however well-intentioned, only exacerbates the problem.
Father Sirico is spinning like mad, trying to get his gloss accepted as Francis’ meaning. With time to refine his effort, it has gotten smoother and his fundamental disagreements have been better hidden. There is no way, however, for Sirico’s market-worship to be reconciled with the Faith.
I will take the market worship over your government worship
Worship Christ. Obey His Church.
When I think of the poor I think of something my dad always said of the poor. He said, “if you give a man a fish he has one meal, but if you teach him how to fish he has food for life.” I know everyone has heard this, but it is so true. There are many reasons for poverty. I think for most it is a mentality. Where I grew up we called it “the westside mentality.” Most people on the westside were poor working class families. People that just scraped by. People with poor educations and people that didn’t convey to their children the need for an education. A lot of those kids didn’t do well in school and they quit as soon as they could. This was the same situation their parents came from and I’m sure their kids will come from. What we need to do is find a way to break this cycle. That would be my prayer. We do have an obligation to them no matter what the cause. Let’s remember the corporal works of mercy, to feed the hungry; to give drink to the thirsty; to clothe the naked; to harbour the harbourless; to visit the sick; to ransom the captive; to bury the dead.
My response:
‘Imagine’ Revised as a Reflection on the Faith and Social Doctrine of the Catholic Church (by Fredi D’Alessio)
+++
Imagine there’s a Heaven,
It’s easy if you try,
A hell below us,
Above us Holy sky,
Imagine all the people
Living for God’s way ~
Imagine there’s no hatred
It isn’t hard to do,
No cause to kill or die for,
And one religion too,
Imagine all the people
Living in Christ’s peace ~
You may say I’m a dreamer
But I’m not the only one
I hope someday you’ll join us
And the world believes as one
Imagine shared possessions,
I wonder if you can,
No deeds of greed, no hunger,
A brotherhood of man,
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world ~
You may say I’m a dreamer,
But I’m not the only one,
I hope someday you’ll join us,
And the world will Love as one
+++
See https://fjdalessio.wordpress.com/imagine for an explanation of these lyrics.
I should have added: Please hold off negatively commenting on these lyrics until after having read their explanation. Otherwise, have at it.
Fred, I like your explanation better than the words to your song.
Thank you Ted. Your comment is refreshing. Over the years, atheists around the world have been making very hateful comments about my lyrics. Proof that I successfully accomplished my goal to publicly oppose Lennon’s Godless manifesto.
This Papacy is an utter mess!!!! Benedict the XVI come back to us!!!!
Janek how do you know that what you perceive to be, was due to gossip…..pray that you don’t judge so harshly all due to the gossip one reads.
This Papacy is cleaning up the mess caused by entrenched Cardinals who don’t want their way of life and power taken from them. They have been fighting it since VII. Now, we have a pastor raised to Pope. He has worked the streets, the periphery. Get ready, the face of the Church is changing. What we do is more important than the rules. What we say will be told with compassion not legalism. People will flock back to the true church. He brings millions in his wake. He was elected by the Cardinals in the field, not those in the offices of the Vatican. The Cardinals in the field knew that the Holy See had to be cleaned out, the corrupt have to be cleansed, etc., etc..
I hope that one remembers to take care of the poor…the most poor of them all….it is the unborn child.
Currently the unborn child risks the chance of being ripped apart through an abortion. These poor innocent children had no chance at life. They are the poorest of the poor and Jesus did warn us about what happens when we scandalize these little ones. Abortion is an all time high of a scandal. An injustice done on an innocent human being. So very helpless. Mother Theresa also knew this too, that is why she spoke up against abortion a lot. Abortion also takes away the chance of a human being to be born and a chance to be baptized. Abortion…..It is a violent act against a human being meant to be born.
We need to speak up for the poor and amongst the poor, is also the unborn, we need to include those from inside the womb! They are so poor that they have no voice, no money, no power, they are dependent. The poor includes the unborn!
BRAVO!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks Bob One…I think you are getting it, sorry that I discounted you. My apologies on this account and for not understanding you. : ) God bless you.
Help me then Bob One to tell those who voted for Obama, that they did an injustice on the poorest of the poor and that is the unborn by voting for such a man. He doesn’t respect all human life and a man so powerful as him, deserves to be admonished. For the sake of the unborn babies of course. : )
Classic socialist – Leninist- communist principles (they are all really the same) purport a false thesis that they will ‘help the poor’, but as always they work to further ruin the non-upper class. Statist politicians and their church counterparts are enchanted by the Golden Idol of centralized power and authority ‘to do good’—witness the many bishops like Bp. Blaire who rhapsodically supported the passage of Obamacare in their innumerable public comments. Leo XI I I observed the ‘deliberate’ work of ‘communists and socialists’ which he specifically condemned by name in the prophetic encyclical Humanum Genus (1884), which he warned would ‘overthrow’ the entire order. John XI I I pronounced that no Catholic could be ‘even a moderate socialist’ (1961, Mater et Magistra).
It is very ‘boring’ and anonymous to work with the poor and sick—much more exciting to be a socialist revolutionary and seek yet greater State power to ‘enforce’ it’s mandates against our fellow citizens, or become a fake personality like Helder – Camara, who always had a reporter at his elbow. So much for the anonymity of our good works (Matt. 23:1-5): he was already paid in this life; he knew better.
And the source of ‘income – inequality’. Well, consider this news item: Now, 6 of the 10 wealthiest communities are suburbs of Wash, DC. All for the cause, Comrades! (It’s all those bankers and capitalists, you know..)
Actually it shows how the last middle class jobs are in government. Don’t confuse the 10k/month bureaucrat with the 1% – you’re off by a couple of orders of magnitude.
This is a surprising admission: that good ‘middle-class’ jobs are now ‘coincidentally’ only available from the Great State Beast. And yet also, one of the largest increases in jobs earning over $100k-200k annually are since 2009 also clustered around the head of Mr. Leviathan, that is, Wash, DC. But this kind of ‘income – inequality’, all you sheeple, is go-oo-od, just keep “Baa-ing” and pay your wealth – redistribution – share (fka ‘taxes’), Dear Sheep – People.
1884, Leo XIII: socialism will lead to the ‘overthrow’ of the order of society and destruction. It always does: France, 1789 & 1848; Mexico, 1910-1927; Russia, 1905 & 1917; Germany, 1919 & 1933; China, 1949; Cuba, 1959; USA, pending, terminal – imminent.
There should be nothing surprising about it, Steve. It should be depressing. The good middle-class jobs that used to exist elsewhere in the country were destroyed along with their unions as the capitalists moved their operations to China.
Your bleating makes the rest of your point hard to follow, but you seem to be complaining that not all jobs are minimum wage ones.
I’ll try to clear it up for you, the inequality I’m talking about is not where some workers make 2 or 5 times other workers. I’m talking about the current situation, where 85 individuals control more wealth than the total controlled by 50% of the world’s population.
“Doctor Zhivago” Boris Pasternak, excerpt:
“That’s a very naive statement,” said Pogorevshikh. “What you call disorder is just as normal a state of things as the order you are so keen on. All this destruction—it’s the right and proper preliminary stage of a wide construction plan. Society has not yet disintegrated sufficiently. It must fall to pieces completely, thana genuinely revolutionary government will put the pieces together on a completely new basis.” Yuri felt sick and went out into the corridor.”
It is utterly preposterous of some uninformed individuals to claim the US Bishops “did not support Obamacare.” The well-documented history of the USCCB shows an unyielding support for the oxymoronically-named “Affordable Care Act” going back years prior to its passage at the end of 2009. However during the fall of 2009, the US Bishops were key to Obama’s and the Democrat Party’s agenda.
Abp Justin Rigali wrote on behalf of the US Bishops in Aug, 2009 while lobbying for the ACA’s passage: “As you continue deliberations on the “America’s Affordable Health Choices Act” (H.R.3200), I urge you to consider the overall priorities and concerns presented by the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops. The [US Bishops’] conference views health care as a basic right belonging to all human beings. We therefore have long supported health care reform that respects human life and dignity from conception to natural death; provides access to quality health care for all, with a special concern for immigrants and the poor; preserves pluralism, with respect for rights of conscience; and restrains costs while sharing them equitably.”
Throughout the fall of 2009, Bps William Murphy, John Wester, Rigali, and others of the USCCB took up point positions advocating for the passage of the ACA and providing cover for the Demoncrat party. You can read the history of all this at the USCCB.org website. When they were later all duped into an act that including full abortion and contraception funding, they were shocked. But they are all “Stupaks” to anyone with a bit of common sense. But to claim they didnt support Obamacare is a bald-faced lie.
The United States Catholic Bishops opposed the final bill-the one that passed that is known as the Affordable Care Act or Obamacare. It is not a lie. It is a fact. I found this fact in the very section of the USCCB website that you asked us to read.
The USCCB opposed the requirements to support abortion, contraception, and the government forbidding religious freedom in this regard.
It is a matter of objective fact that, up until passage of the ACA, or nearly so, in lobbying letter after letter (you can read the history, just as in only one letter of Abp. Rigali quoted above), throughout fall, 2009, the US Bishops voiced strong support for a “fair” govt healthcare act. To claim otherwise is to lie to oneself. Once passed, yes, the USCCB “announced its opposition”, of course because they were betrayed on the matters of abortion and contraception. That is irrelevant: they gave ‘cover’ to fools like Bart Stupak and Obama and the Democratic Party. Objective people can read the history and see it is disingenuous to claim the ACA did not have USCCB support,at least from its official lobbying apparatus.
But the main point here is on the growth of the centralized socialist State, which has caused the very ‘income – inequality’ their mouthpieces so poignantly decry. The Obamacare act will continue further destroying income for the non–wealthy (it is already having that effect in the Labor Dept’s reports evidencing the disappearance of massive numbers of jobs), and the USCCB ‘ S supine ‘opposition’. Thank God these ‘300’ or so bishops were not the only opposition at Thermopylae. ..
Steve, not only does the US Bishops’ conference view “health care as a basic right belonging to all human beings”, so does the Church. If you oppose this, as you appear to, you oppose the Church.
Brian S that is unjust of you to say that he opposes the church! It is not true……
Abeca, this person always tries to place other people outside the Church, or declare them “anti-papal” or anti-Catholic. I dont post in answer to him anymore, but so that other people arent fooled by mis-statements can find out what the facts are and where to find them.
I agree I have noticed that of him……he was better off making his arguments without taking it further and discrediting your love of the faith by saying you oppose the church? Its as if he was mind controlling you and using the church to get you to follow command without accounting for the wisdom and knowledge you share. As if he had some kind of authority to make such a statement. Steve I can read right through your comments on how much you love the church. I think that our church is filled so much misinformation that people can sometimes conclude just like Brian S does. Steve you committed no sin in using your logic on said topic.
The reality is that even within our church, Brian S is like the norm as well….I don’t doubt that in his heart he too loves the church. Its just a pity that secularism has infected the church and thus whalah these are the other Catholics that are raising up.
Don’t give up Steve, you make good arguments, don’t give up. I’m learning still….I appreciate good dialogue, we can do away with the “antipope and anit Catholic tactics.
I made a conditional statement. Steve can assure us he supports the position of the Church as She makes clear in CCC2211, if a reputation foor orthodoxy is important to him. Paula even provides it for us.
Brian S.
It does not matter what any Bishop’s PAC states, unless it is 100% in conformance with the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition in entirety.
Sometimes it is, and sometimes it is merely the political views of those in charge at the PACs.
CCC: “2288 Life and physical health are precious gifts entrusted to us by God. We must take reasonable care of them, taking into account the needs of others and the common good.
Concern for the health of its citizens requires that society help in the attainment of living-conditions that allow them to grow and reach maturity: food and clothing, housing, health care, basic education, employment, and social assistance.”
CCC: ” 2211 The political community has a duty to honor the family, to assist it, and to ensure especially:
– the freedom to establish a family, have children, and bring them up in keeping with the family’s own moral and religious convictions;
– the protection of the stability of the marriage bond and the institution of the family;
– the freedom to profess one’s faith, to hand it on, and raise one’s children in it, with the necessary means and institutions;
– the right to private property, to free enterprise, to obtain work and housing, and the right to emigrate;
– in keeping with the country’s institutions, the right to medical care, assistance for the aged, and family benefits;
– the protection of security and health, especially with respect to dangers like drugs, pornography, alcoholism.
Paula, what argument do you suppose those paragraphs are proving against me? Did you read them? If you did, how could you have missed that people have a “right to medical care” in CCC 2211?
There is not a scintilla of difference between the statement that health care must be seen “as a basic right belonging to all human beings” (the US Bishops) and that the “political community has a duty to honor the family, to assist it, and to ensure….the right to medical care”. (CCC2211)
You three are as quick to attack the Bishops as you are to defend yourselves, even when the evidence you cite directly contradicts you! Try citing the Catechism less, and reading it more.
1) The false argument here from excerpted C C C passages is that healthcare must be “government” care, evidencing the socialist motive of its proponents. The word “govt” as a requirement never occurs.
2) Now the proponents of Obamacare claim it as an article of Catholic Faith—A proposal ludicrous on its face.
3)Finally, notice how the argument shifted: essentially the proponents now tacitly admit de facto that the USCCB did in fact support Obamacare, and that the end, unjust wealth – redistribution by a Great State Beast, justifies the means—even tho’ now said healthcare is even less accessible to the non – wealthy.
I am always intrigued by those who so bitterly argue “for the poor”, ascribing meanwhile malice to those who question their plans. Perhaps they are holding their store of charity for those who really deserve it. ( There isn’t enough for everyone. .) :)
Steve P. indulges in linguistic nonsense. In the words of The Declaration of Independence, it is to secure these God-given rights that Governments are instituted among Men.” As if it were not obvious that civil authorities, with its police, courts, and prisons, is the proper agent, as opposed to vigilantism.
But what does Steve suppose the words “political community”, which CCC2211 uses, refers to, if not government?
In order to oppose a bad law, opposition in which he is joined by the Bishops and by me, he insists on mangling the message of the Church beyond recognition.
Except for Meidcare, Medicaid, and veterrans care, there is no “government care”. What are you talking about?
I cannot accept the CCC it is merely a Book of Etiquette for all practical purposes telling little about our Roman Catholic faith, doctrine, sacraments, and history compared to the Catechism of the Council of Trent. The CCC reads more like a protestant worldly position rather than teaching us about the Blessed Trinity so why even cite it? It is a product of V2 supporting V2’s drastic changes and should not be used as a reference to measure the quality of our V2 leaders. If we want to measure the quality of our V2 leaders putting our Roman Catholic faith into practice and striving to save millions of souls by preserving the faith and converting those outside the faith, the Catechism of the Council of Trent is a better tool to gauge with.
As far as Anomynous and Andrea’s comments to defend what Francis said about atheists can go to heaven, it shouldn’t take some arm chair quarter-back stepping in with alibis and stating this is what the pope meant to say. Instead clear communications are required, not just on the part of the listeners (i.e. the world press in this case) but more so on the part of the speaker (in this case Francis). Christ did die for all sinners because He loves all of His children; however most people reject God, or at least offend Him grievously without being willing to confess their sins. The time to obtain His mercy is before our death and final judgment, the time to receive His justice is at our final judgment and then it is irrevocable for He knows all, what is in our hearts and minds. Atheists being unbelievers of Him who created them haven’t heaven to look forward to in more ways than one.
father Sirico went to LACC, he’s a Cub, as I am…yeah!…rep the cubs, love lacc
When one is speaking from the Chair of St Peter, one must be very careful in doing so publicly and privately, this is why so many encyclicals of the Popes were so carefully written and edited in the past centuries to ensure nothing scandalous or heretical was stated. Words from the Chair of St Peter must be chosen very deliberately and carefully to convey the proper accurate meaning, error is intolerable. Under this pretense, a Pope therein through the grace of the Holy Ghost, is infallible in faith, morals, and values according to Roman Catholic teaching.
Congressional Budget Office (CBO) announcement 2/4/2014:
“The Affordable Care Act will reduce the number of fulltime workers by more than 2 million in coming years, congressional budget analysts said in the most detailed analysis of the law’s impact on jobs. The CBO said the law’s impact on jobs would be mostly felt starting after 2016. The agency previously estimated that the economy would have 800,000 fewer jobs as a result of the law. The impact is likely to be most felt, the CBO said, among low-wage workers. The agency said that most of the effect would come from Americans deciding not to seek work as a result of the ACA’s impact on the economy. Some workers may forgo employment, while others may reduce hours, for a equivalent of at least 2 million fulltime workers dropping out of the labor force. ”
Comrades, it’s the bankers and capitalists who are eliminating low-wage workers!