The following is an email by a reader sent to Cal Catholic on Oct. 22.
Archbishop Gomez and his fellow bishops are exchanging their role as shepherds of Our Lord’s flock for a role as de facto endorsers of pro-abortion, pro-homosexual politicians.
The outrage is not just that Archbishop Jose Gomez appeared and affirmed some of the Democratic parties most pro-abortion, pro-homosexual politicians, but that Archbishop Gomez’s own archdiocesan newspaper, the Tidings, had a large front-page picture to celebrate these genocidal criminals.
The picture on the front page of the October 11, 2013 Tidings was much worse and said far more about the corruption in the Los Angeles archdiocese than any of the pictures in secular papers of Archbishop Gomez with Gov. Jerry Brown at the drivers’ license AB 60 signing on the steps of the Los Angeles City Hall.
Archbishop Gomez could have helped pass AB 60 and celebrated its passage without giving honor and credibility and obvious “vote-for-these-good pro-abortion and pro-homosexual Democrats” coverage on the front cover of his own weekly newspaper.
Sort of like German bishops turning out to join Adolf Hitler to open autobahns and Volkswagen factories and then publishing pictures of the events in their diocesan papers so all the Catholics would know that they should vote for an support the great friend of the bishops.
And then Archbishop Gomez will go to some self-congratulatory, sing-to-the-choir event like a youth pro-life rally or the SF Walk for Life and think that he is being a defender of life.
On Governor Jerry Brown’s right (left as viewed in the picture) wearing sunglasses is the “Gay” pro-abortion speaker of the California Assembly, John Perez.
New Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti (second to the right of Gomez). Garcetti controls his Roth Foundation which has given funds to Los Angeles Planned Parenthood. Eric Garcetti ran as a “pro-choice” candidate for mayor.
Imagine if the issue was associating with Nazi politicians — or NAMBLA activists
The bishops have no fear of any real criticism of their complicity with baby killers
See the following:
GOVERNOR BROWN SIGNS AB 60 official press release which mentions Archbishop Jose Gomez as the first of “hundreds of Californians at today’s signing ceremonies” (paragraph 7)
NBC LA Channel 4 TV coverage of driver’s license bill signin
CBS video showing the crowd, now including Darrell Steinberg and Dave Jones
Orange County Register – with Brown and Gomez
The Tidings – Gomez speaks at podium prior to signing
KTLA 5 video of signing
staggers the mind…really, it truly does…abortion is a non-issue in this clerics mind…as he affirms politicians that grant abortion on demand…”social justice” which is code for modernism, is what these men really advocate…that’s why, when they die, they will answer, they surely will…and it ain’t gonna be pretty
I guess the archbishop is saying that illegal immigration is “equivalent” to abortion, SSM, ignoring Prop. 8, adultery and others. Where was Pelosi and the Sanchez sisters?
Following in the footsteps of Cardinal Mahoney, I guess, while the archdiocese crumbles around him.
Archbishop Gomez associating with pro-abortion politicians reminds me of Jesus associating with sinners. As long as we do not see a picture of Archbishop Gomez giving Holy Communion to Jerry Brown.
4unborn,
I am sure that such pictures of him giving The Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity to these cretins do exists and we at CRCOA, Inc. would love to get ahold of them!
May God have mercy on an amoral America and its errant bishops!
Viva Cristto Rey!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
We should not accuse Archbishop Gomez of such a suspicion!
KMF–is it not reasonable to question the actions of many in the hierarchy in the light of Holy Orders? The Sacraments in Catholic dogma are effective signs,producing what they signify. The phrase used is that the sacraments work “ex opere operato” (out of the working of the work itself) as opposed to”ex opere operantis”(out of the working of the workman). Baptism of Water signifies cleansing and produces that cleansing if the matter(water) and form(“I baptize thee,etc.) are correct and the minister intends to do what the Church teaches. A bishop recieves a by which sacrament which he ordains clergy,governs, and promulgates God’s ordannances in according to church law.The sacrament properly recieved will produce the actual grace by which does these things. So many bishops stray from these obligations,one has to wonder if the sacrament they recieved is invalid.
Absolutely not.
Associating with sinners is okay if the intention is to help them where they are, and to make the message of salvation available to them. This is not the same as associating with people whose aim is to destroy marriage and family.
SCANDAL is a MORTAL Sin.
See “CATECHISM of the CATHOLIC CHURCH, Second Edition” –
#2284 – 2287, 2326.
No Bishop, or Priest or Lay person should do anything that gives public scandal – which may cause confusion and the loss of any Souls.
Appearing to support any politician who publically supports ABORTION, HOMOSEXUAL MARRIAGE, or other mortal sins is a SCANDAL.
Jesus gave public scandal by associating with tax collectors and prostitutes!!
After reading again the CCC paragraphs on scandal, I do not think it applies to this. However, it could apply to the website who ran the inflammatory email falsely accusing the bishops of being de facto endorsers of pro-abortion, pro-homosexual politicians. This provoked sinful behavior from some of the commenters. Aside from the blatant falsity of the statement, it seems to be a deliberate attempt to inflame the readers and provoke these comments. Please read CCC2284 – 2287
Let’s not judge the intentions of Archbishop Gomez.
Tax collectors and prostitutes that He called to repentance, 4unborn. Please. As to not judging the intentions of Archbishop Gomez, how about acknowledging the confusion and scandal that are the fruits of his actions.
I’m glad to know, however, that your line would be crossed with regard to the Blessed Sacrament. That said, there are Bishops/Princes of the Church who do give Communion to highly public unrepentant sinners who spread scandal.
What is your position there? Not to question?
Woe to you 4unborn using the “don’t judge” defense when spiritual reality is called what it is. Sorry. You see judgement where there is none. Be warned Bishop Gomez. Be awake Bishop Gomez. Be ready 4unborn. A shaky conconscience sees judgement everywhere.
That is not judgment, it is a description.
You know what happens to people when they don’t recognize a skunk as they see it.
4unborn, you said, “Let’s not judge the INTENTIONS of Archbishop Gomez.” What I have been reading on this thread is individuals judging the ACTIONS of Archbishop Gomez. There is a BIG difference between the two!
There are seven Spiritual Works of Mercy. Here are two of them: “Admonish the Sinner” and “Instruct the Ignorant”. 4unborn, can you explain to us how it is possible to “admonish the sinner” without first making the JUDGEMENT that one has sinned? And can you further explain to me how it is possible to “instruct the ignorant” when you are told that you cannot point out a sin when you see one? I suspect 4unborn that you are the one misjudging many of our INTENTIONS here!
Lets be clear. Salvation came to the house of Zacchaeus the moment Jesus entered it. I know of no sinner that Our Lord associated with that did not get a conversion. The problem with Archbishop Gomez situation is that his association with these ‘sinners’ does not bring conversion of Christ to them. It encourages lawlessness and discrimination against poor red Indian immigrants people while leaving the sinners to wallow in their sinful ways.
Let me explain. Archbishop Gomez is a white privileged person. In Mexico his kind are top Chaste. They are considered superior to the dark skinned peoples and therefore get prime of place in the social order. Most people from Mexico that look white come to the United States and integrate themselves into the greater white society. However, they perpetuate the discrimination they have over there against darker peoples by ensuring that these darker natives do not speak English, get an education or integrate with other Americans, Indian or otherwise.
In the end these dark skinned servants from Mexico end up dependent on their Spanish ‘bi-lingual’ white masters.
This perpetuates that. It allows Dark skinned south Americans to stay stuck in their Spanish speaking world but gives them the ability to drive around and clean the houses of their Spanish speaking masters. Generation after generation.
Instead of encouraging them to follow the rule of law, these white masters are encouraging the same lawlessness that perpetuates their discrimination against darker peoples in Mexico. Since these people remain illegal and not documented.
Worst of all, Archbishop and his type make sure that these darker skinned Indians do not understand the benefit of rule of law and therefore, perpetuate an underclass of illegals that cannot break from the cycle by first asking of themselves how they can migrate legally.
Lawlessness is always the goal of oppressors. Make no mistake.
Wow Western Schnieder interesting point of view….Never thought of that especially in regards to dark people….you mean brown? Right? We are not dark…….even my grandfather was not dark, he was brown with blue eye’s. Yes he was Mexican…
I don’t know if I can agree but it’s interesting to read these different points of view. I am very patriotic and I don’t agree with the views on immigration as does the actions of this archbishop but I don’t know if that is why this archbishop is behaving as such as you have painted here but I’m sure it can look that way to some. : )
But that picture you painted just sounds dark to me….lets bring in the light a little…how different is that from using the example of the hillbillies and the rednecks…you know they wanted to make their own moon shine a while back when it was illegal, yippers, yup, they didn’t need no law telling them that they couldn’t, how about them Mckoys ….how about …etc well you know the deal…..
Archbishop Gomez and the other Bishops think they are doing fellow Catholics a favor by encouraging lawlessness. They see it as a helping hand to poor people. However, their ‘strange bedfellows’ the leftist Democrats see them as a tool to use as a means to an end. To create society in their own image. Do not forget most Politicians of Mexican origin have ties and sympathies for the likes of Plutarco Elías Calles and his ideas. These people were masons.
In the leftists minds, it will take decades to get critical mass, once that mass is achieved then persecution of the church begins.
Do not think for a moment that Leftists here would not burn churches. The ideas, the hate and the will is there. The means are not there (Yet)
Did not see open dissent at the DNC convention at the mere mention of God. Yet some Nun on an old Bus spoke there anyway. Looking for ‘common ground’.
Some religious are either fools or they know exactly what they are doing. Neither of which is great. I have had the opportunity to hear Archbishop Gomez Speak. He is a meek and humble and a Genuine humility. This probably is driven by compassion on his part.
Western yes I agree, it is wrong to encourage lawlessness. You make good points….God bless you.
Western Schnieder, I have to agree with Abeca, this certainly is an interesting point of view. I too have never heard of it before, but it certainly makes sense to me. I did see the type of master/servitude arrangements (including skin colors), you talk about, going on in Mexico when I lived with a couple of families there for a time. What I witnessed was truly disturbing. The “masters” seemed perfectly justified with their behavior and the “servants” I spoke with seemed to have resigned themselves to their fate of being treated harshly and paid poorly.
Now I have always rejected this notion that immigrants to the USA should maintain the culture they left. I have always asked myself, if the culture they left was so great then why would they leave in the first place? My ancestors left their countries of origin precisely because the culture they came from was not good. They came to America and embraced American culture, learned its language and its constitution. What you have shared here only confirms my long held beliefs on this matter. It certainly raises suspicions of those who insist that immigrants keep the customs of their homeland.
Sept 19th, 2013, The Independent.UK: ” Pope Francis has criticised the Catholic Church’s “obsession” with the issues of abortion, gay marriage and contraception. “We cannot insist only on issues related to abortion, gay marriage and the use of contraceptive methods… When we speak about these issues, we have to talk about them in context,” he said, adding that the church should not be “obsessed” with transmitting “a disjointed multitude of doctrine.
” It is difficult to imagine a more unjust situation, and it is very difficult to speak of obsession in a matter such as this, where we are dealing with a fundamental imperative of every good conscience — the defense of the right to life of an innocent and defenseless human being.” Bl. John Paul II
Yes, the Pope said that we should talk about abortion, etc., into a context – and that context is the shared responsibility of both father and mother about the unborn child.
If we clarify the context, then, we may fewer abortions .
Who knows , maybe the Archbishop was trying to open a dialog in this direction.
This is why Pope Francis in his Encyclical Letter LUMEN FIDEI, 2013 stated:
” Read in this light, the prophetic text leads to one conclusion: we need knowledge, we need truth, because without these we cannot stand firm, we cannot move forward. Faith without truth does not save, it does not provide a sure footing.”
and
” These, then, are the four elements which comprise the storehouse of memory which the Church hands down: the profession of faith, the celebration of the sacraments, the path of the ten commandments, and prayer.
The Church’s catechesis has traditionally been structured around these four elements;
this includes the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which is a fundamental aid for that unitary act with which the Church communicates the entire content of her faith: “all that she herself is, and all that she believes”. ” – Pope Francis
Unfortunately many Catholics do not know their Faith in entirety, and therefore succumb to relativism – and the support for some mortal sins.
Wow, what a coup for the Democrat Party. The Tidings, according to its website, has a circulation of 100,000, reaching “230,000 active adults each week”. Thanks to Archbishop Gomez, the Democrat Party now firmly has the support of those multiple tens of thousands of Californians who see the Archbishop praising the devil’s advocates right on the front page of his own newspaper.
It is no longer possible to see any hope for the Catholic Church in Los Angeles, and probably not in California as a whole. None of the bishops speak out against the Party of Death. Why is this, if not that they have forged a pact with the devil. This article certainly has the correct title.
I have been receiving the Tidings in the mail for around 15 years for free. I never signed up for it. I assume a parish I once belonged to gave them my address. I am told that the parishes are forced to buy it. Some of them put stacks of it in the church. I’d be curious to know how many individuals actually pay for a subscription themselves.
Tracy,
You are right about the non-canonical forced subscriptions.
Some pastors just place the forced subscriptions in the their round files (trash cans) and don’t tell the Chancery about it.
One of my Officers was at one time a high Official at the Tidings, and he is totally disgusted as to what happened to that paper after Cardinal Mcyntire and to some degree Cardinal Manning.
As a child, I was the recipient of many Tidings awards for getting subscribers to the Tidings. Today I consider it an am-church rag.
California Catholic Daily
That is true of me too, Kenneth. When Cardinal McIntire was head of the archdiocese, it was different world for Catholics in Los Angeles and California. It is profoundly disappointing that Archbishop Gomez is so full of Mahony.
Had the bishops of California spoken out years ago when these politicians first began promoting abortion and homosexuality as human rights, they wouldn’t be in this situation now. They should have publically condemned those sinful practices then. They wanted to “go along to get along” and be friends with the devil. Bishops wanted to be viewed as congenial and modern, not clinging to outdated customs and mores. Now, they give everyone the impression that they condone and even praise abortion and same-sex marriage – and maybe they do. This encourages politicians to enact more laws that please Satan.
Oh please, Sarah! What Bishop of California has ever “given the impression” that they “condone and even praise abortion and same-sex marriage”. Exactly which ones? Exactly what did they say or do that gave you that impression?
YFC: Silence means consent……
Amen! Amen! When the Catholic bishops decided that the sacrosanct “tax exemption” was more important than addressing in church and publicly the issue of killing babies in the womb, the fate of the Catholic church in the USA was sealed decades ago. Perhaps the widespread dissent from “Humanae Vitae” was the litmus test for these religious leaders? We must pray every day and offer Masses for the conversion of our bishops and priests, and Religious, that they will have an awakening of conscience and finally do the right thing: publicly address politicians and others receiving Communion while espousing the culture of death in passing laws that condemn the unborn, the mentally and physically challenged, the frail elderly, etc. to death because they are not worthy of life. Hitler has been outdone by the USA many times over.
I agree that we most pray everyday for our wayward bishops. I think it might be spiritually profitable also to hold a prayer vigil (maybe once a week) outside each chancery office in the state, asking God to guide our bishops aright.
The gates of hell will not prevail against the Catholic Church. However, where the Church will survive is not known. I suggest that the gate of hell are being forged by the bishops of California. I wish I knew where we could escape to.
Who are we to judge? This is the new church. Get with the program, folks!
Anton,
We are to judge people’s ACTIONS!!!
Elizabeth: Sorry you missed the point of my remarks. It was said in irony. Did the pope not chastise us for being too quick to judge?
Pope Francis is leaving many of us in a state of confusion and bafflement. All of my previous assumptions about the church and her teachings are now in doubt. A lifetime spent in the secure knowledge of right and wrong has gone up in smoke. With every papal pronouncement things seem to get worse. When the head of NARAL and President Obama cheer this new pope as if he were the second coming I drift into the belief that perhaps the prophecy of St. Malachi was not mistaken after all.
Don’t despair. Do what is right. Adhere to the teaching of the Catholic Church as stated in entirety in the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition” in entirety – for the truth of what the Church teaches.
See: “What Catholics REALLY Believe SOURCE” on the internet for quotes from our Popes (including Pope Francis) about the CCC.
https://whatcatholicsreallybelieve.com/
Our first obligation is to save our own Souls, and those of family and friends if possible.
Public scandals and confusion can not affect us personally if we study and use the CCC as a frequent reference.
How sinful! You desire for the representatives of Jesus Christ to be so arrogant that they refuse to have their picture taken with a politician who differs from them. “As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions.” Romans 14:1 These are elected officials to whom is owed respect. As for the lies in the above posts: Abortion is a grave evil which the bishops have always opposed. Social justice is a requirement of the Lord and a tenet of the Catholic Faith. Modernism is a heresy. The bishops have not forged a pact with the devil. The bishops have never endorsed a candidate or a political party. The bishops have always spoken out against abortion. Everyone knows they do not condone abortion or same-sex marriage. How your lies sicken the Heart of Jesus!
Anonymous, back when our country was divided over the issue of slavery, can you inform me of any Bishop who stood on the steps of any city hall in the south with pro-slavery politicians to support other issues with them? If one of them had, would you be perfectly o.k. with that? Just wondering?
While this article is about a photo-op on the steps of City Hall, Archbishop Gomez has taken this a step further in the recent past and had some of these same politicians and others of the same persuasion attend Mass at the Cathedral of Our Lady of the Angels and offered them Holy Communion.
Letter to Jefferson Davis from Pope Pius IX
Illustrious and honorable sir, greeting:
We have lately received with all kindness, as was meet, the gentlemen sent by your Excellency to present to us your letter dated on the 23d of last September. We have received certainly no small pleasure in learning both from these gentlemen and from your letter the feelings of gratification and of very warm appreciation with which you, illustrious and honorable sir, were moved when you first had knowledge written in October of the preceding year to the venerable brethren, John, archbishop of New York, and John, archbishop of New Orleans, in which we again and again urged and exhorted those venerable brethren that because of their exemplary piety and episcopal zeal they should employ their most earnest efforts, in our name also, in order that the fatal civil war which had arisen in the States should end, and that the people of America might again enjoy mutual peace and concord, and love each other with mutual charity.
And it has been very gratifying to us to recognize illustrious and honorable sir, that you and your people are animated by the same desire for peace and tranquillity, which we had so earnestly inculcated in our aforesaid letters to the venerable brethren above named. Oh, that the other people also of the States and their rulers, considering seriously how cruel and how deplorable is this internecine war, would receive and embrace the counsels of peace and tranquillity….
Given at Rome at St. Peters on the 3d December, 1863, in the eighteenth year of our pontificate.
PIUS P. P. IX.
Anonymous, interesting letter. I am not sure, however, that it answered the question I posed to you. Since Pope Pius IX lived prior to Our Lady of Fatima apparitions, he had not heard that “War is a punishment for sin”. Well actually, since no authentic apparition gives any new dogma, this reality was already known.
But my question still stands. Can you inform me of any Bishop who stood on the steps of any city hall in the south with pro-slavery politicians to support other issues with them? I do not, myself, know the answer to this question, but I do recall reading somewhere that the US Bishops were for the most part “silent” about slavery. Could this silence have been the cause of the Civil War? Something for all of us to think about.
I posted something else about the issue. It ended up below the post from Tracy replying to Life Lady below. I have a hard time believing that any Southern politician would want to be seen with a Catholic bishop. The anti-Catholic Know Nothing party was about 10 years prior to the civil war. I doubt the silence of a leader in a despised minority religion had nothing to do with the cause of the Civil War. My mother’s family before the Civil War were devout Irish Catholics and they did own a slave. They considered her a member of the family. She was treated the way one would treat a revered grandmother. How she felt about them, I don’t know. I’ve heard that she stayed after the 13th Amendment was passed (they lived in a state where the Emancipation Proclamation did not apply) Oh and…the War of Northern Aggression was not about slavery, although it had a part in it. The Civil War was declared after southern states had succeeded from the union because they felt that states should have the right to decide whether they accepted federal legislation and were outnumbered by those backing a stronger federal government. The North fought to “save the union”-to destroy the new country of the Confederate States of America which it saw as illegitimate and return the southern states to the United States of America.
Anonymous, interesting letter. I am not sure, however, that it answered my question. But since you posted this letter, I will now add this. While I do not know if any Bishops during slavery stood on the steps of city hall with pro-slavery politicians for any other cause, I do recall reading somewhere that the US Bishops were basically silent on the issue of slavery. Our Lady of Fatima told us that “war is a punishment for sin”. Now I realize that Pope Pius IX lived prior to this apparition, however, since no true apparition offers new “truths”, this reality would have already been known. I am now wondering if slavery could have been ended sooner and without a war if the bishops had spoken out and not remained silent about the evil of slavery. Something to ponder.
Anonymous: You ramble all over the field. Do you have any unwavering principles at all? We have to obey the laws enacted by these politicians under penalty of fines or imprisonment, WE ARE UNDER NO MORAL OBLIGATION TO RESPECT THEM! As Catholic citizens we are obligated to combat them and to use the ballot box to oust them. I am sickened by the spectacle of our bishops making “nice” with these despicable purveyors of aberrant sex and the abomination of murder in the womb.
Your post is not in conformity with the Traditional and current teaching of the Catholic Church on the Fourth Commandment. We have a moral duty to obey all laws enacted by civil authorities that are not contrary to the moral law. If you obey only out of fear of consequences you are doing the right thing for the wrong reason. Despising those in authority is a violation of the Fourth Commandment. We have to respect all people and even to love them. In every catechism, CCC 2238. Baltimore Catechism 4th Commandment and the Roman Catechism, this is the teaching of the Church.
Define love, Anonymous. That’s the sticking point. As for despising those in authority, is not a matter of despising them, but rather despising the misuse of authority (sin) and the subsequent fallout for the faithful.
I think, however, you know this already and are misconstruing Anton on purpose.
From the Catechism of Trent written by Pope St. Pius V in his explanation of the 4th Commandment (edited to fit the editor’s request for brevity)
Of Bishops and other pastors it is written: … Obey your prelates, and be subject to them…The same is to be said of civil rulers, governors, magistrates and others to whose authority we are subject. The Apostle in his Epistle to the Romans, explains at length the honour, respect and obedience that should be shown them, and he also bids us to pray for them. St. Peter says: Be ye subject, therefore, to every human creature for God’s sake; whether it be to the king as excelling, or to governors as sent by him. For whatever honour we show them is given to God, since exalted human dignity deserves respect because it is an image of the divine power, and in it we revere the providence of God who has entrusted to men the care of public affairs and who uses them as the instruments of His power. If we sometimes have wicked and unworthy officials it is not their faults that we revere, but the authority from God which they possess. Indeed, while it may seem strange, we are not excused from highly honouring them even when they show themselves hostile and implacable towards us… However, should their commands be wicked or unjust, they should not be obeyed, since in such a case they rule not according to their rightful authority, but according to injustice and perversity.
What are you trying to prove? The commands (state laws) that these people have enacted ARE WICKED and UNJUST. They certainly should not be obeyed. As regards “highly honoring them” the bishops themselves in 2004 emphatically stated that we should NOT confer any public honors upon them, or do anything that would suggest we condone their evil agenda. Archbishop Gomez has just signaled his approval or at least acceptance of that agenda by his actions. In fact one of the reasons people are so disappointed is the glaring discrepancy between the words of the bishops back then the archbishop’s – and many other bishops – actions and words now.
I will also say that the Catholic politicians who stubbornly refuse to obey their pastors and shepherds on the issues of abortion and same-sex marriage are also guilty of violating the 4th Commandment. This from the Baltimore Catechism:
365. Q. What is forbidden by the Fourth Commandment?
A. The Fourth Commandment forbids all disobedience, contempt, and stubbornness towards our parents or lawful superiors.
“Contempt.” Showing by our words or actions that we disregard or despise those placed over us. A man who is summoned to appear in court and does not come is punished for “contempt of court,” because he shows that he disregards the authority of the judge. A thing not very bad in itself may become very bad if done out of contempt. For example, there would be a great difference between eating a little more than the Church allows on a fast–day, simply because you were hungry, and eating it because you wanted to show that you despised the law of fasting and the authority of the Church. The first would be only a venial sin, but the latter mortal. So for all your actions. An act which in itself might be a venial sin could easily become a mortal sin if you did it through contempt. “Stubbornness’L–that is, unwillingness to give in, even when you know you are wrong and should yield. Those who obey slowly and do what they are ordered in a sulky manner are also guilty of stubbornness.
“…Everyone knows they do not condone abortion or same-sex marriage. ”
Sadly, Anonymous, your above statement couldn’t be further from the Truth. That’s the problem as actions speak louder than words. Nothing to do with arrogance. Rather a convenient excuse: Like a middle aged Dad attending the pot party, inhaling deeply, getting down with spunky, young party goers here and there and – well – everywhere under the pretext of finding the daughter who he’d bet money on is really at home, alone and asleep in her room. At least that’s the story he tells his wife.
“… Social justice is a requirement of the Lord and a tenet of the Catholic Faith.” “Modernism is a heresy.”
It is precisely the perversion of the idea of what is socially just that is modernism, Anonymous.
And yet there are those who STILL cleave to the notion that there is no crisis in the Church. We are sheep indeed!
Ok I’ll change that. Some people don’t know that they do not condone abortion or same-sex marriage because they have been deceived by those who listen to the Father of lies.
“Ok I’ll change that. Some people don’t know that they do not condone abortion or same-sex marriage because they have been deceived by those who listen to the Father of lies.”
Deceived how, Anonymous? By the smiling photo ops promoting diabolically oriented ‘Catholic’ politicians? From all appearances the Father of Lies is working hand-in-hand with the Archbishop’s PR firm.
Let your ‘yes’ mean yes and your ‘no’ mean no is the scriptural guide, Anonymous. That doesn’t mean bury the kernel of Truth beneath a barrel of rotted leaves and filth on the off chance you might attract some flies.
If you are comforted to look the other way and/or trust yourself and your children to those that are not straightforward, go for it. But do not chasten those who would call out such an odd exercise of authority. But keep in mind, monkey see, monkey do. A wise priest once told me as much with regard to my young children.
The message: If you don’t want your kids doing something, don’t do it yourself. Our Pope, Cardinals, Bishops, etc are our superiors in the order of grace. As such, if they don’t want the faithful to become tepid, wishy-washy, apostate, doubting, heretical, or just plain go to Hell, then they shouldn’t send such increasingly scandalous, MIXED messages.
Anyone who knows better will be held accountable.
Yes, we should welcome the weak in faith and not quarrel over opinions. The Church’s teaching on abortion is not an OPINION. It is a solemn principle of God’s law, on which civilized living depends, and must be upheld against OPINIONS to the contrary. Any one who aspires to lead and does not accept it is no more worthy of honor from a Catholic bishop than is one who advocates slavery, segregation or genocide. In fact abortion is just that – a form of genocide.
You say “these are elected officials to whom is owed respect”. Respect or deference for any leader is conditional on the justness or otherwise of his/her leadership. As was pointed out no one would consider it right for a Catholic bishop to pose alongside the elected leader Adolf Hitler at, let’s say, the dedication of a VW factory, while ignoring the smoke reeking from the crematoria. Neither should a bishop pose for the cameras with, not one, but a horde of elected politicians just as committed to the monumental injustice of elective abortion as Hitler was to Jewish extermination. The argument that those California elected officials do a lot of good in some areas (like immigration) is no more valid than arguing that Adolf Hitler did a lot of good for the German people at the same time he was killing the Jews.
The archbishop’s photo op is all the more egregious in view of the fact that this year the bishops of the state have made no appreciable effort to defend unborn life in the face of two diabolical bills signed into law by the governor standing next to the archbishop in that picture.
Anonymous, in your October 25, 2013 at 11:07 pm post you state, “The bishops have always spoken out against abortion. Everyone knows they do not condone abortion or same-sex marriage.”
I think you miss the point here. Many Catholics, who I personally know, vote for RADICALLY “Pro-Abortion” and “Same Sex Marriage” Politicians because they REFUSE to be convinced that those politicians REALLY ARE for abortion or redefining Marriage! It is precisely because these Catholics DO know that the bishops oppose those abominations that they make the error. They themselves would never stand with anyone who they KNEW supported those abominations and they erroneously believe that neither would the bishops stand with anyone who supported those abominations. Sadly, we have a poorly informed electorate in this State. Those, of the ill-informed voters who are Catholic, are heavily influenced by the bishops actions. As the old saying goes, “A picture is worth a thousand words”.
Tracy, I have never known anyone who made that error. If you do know of people that will vote for someone simply because a picture with the bishop was made public and they assume that the politician has catholic values because of the picture, you should inform the bishop or bishops that this has occurred. That would be something for them to consider. They cannot endorse politicians and they may need to make a statement that gets widely distributed that informs Catholics that their presence with the politician is not an endorsement. Thank you for shedding light on this.
Yes, lets thank Tracy for shedding light on the obvious, Anonymous. But the insinuation that our Church leaders, all of them supposedly well educated men, that is in the Faith, Church doctrine/theology, and psychology would not have picked up on this earlier is disheartening.
It smacks too close to our current President in his seeming lack of knowledge about anything particular that might hold him culpable for the rampant scandals and mismanagement of our country, our country’s money, and our overseas policy.
IOW: If it takes a parishioner to point out the obvious, then the leaders, instead of looking gracious and open minded, appear ignorant and/or guilty of such premeditated cherry picking that they appear more devious than if they’d just admitted knowledge of the problem in the first place.
Disgusting.
Social Justice is not a ‘requirement of the Lord’. That is absolute Nonsense. Sorry.
Any good act that is not sacrificial and in union with the crucified has no salvation value. Zero. The motivation of good communist acts could take you to hell.
The motivation of good acts is key. You cannot go around trying to mold society in an image other than that which Christ intended and think you will get salvation from it. Do you think for one moment that the motivation for fair treatment of immigrants by the democrats is motivated by a desire to serve Christ in these immigrants?
We know very well that the atheists who control the liberal political machine are not only out to destroy the holy mother Church but to eliminate completely from the face of the earth any respect for the creator.
Their good works are designed to precisely undermine the church as the source of good works of mercy.
Social Justice is not Christian Charity.
Social justice is the respect for the human person and the rights which flow from human dignity and guarantee it. Of, course it is a requirement of the Lord. Justice is a requirement of the Lord. I’m not sure what the ‘salvation value” statement is about. Social justice IS the image that Christ intended for society. Your post is confusing. Social justice is to ensure that each person has what he is willed to have by Jesus Christ. What does it have to do with atheists or even democrats? Christian charity can be an element of social justice. I’m really struggling to understand your post. Do you have the concept of social justice confused with something else? Like socialism? or a welfare state?
And such twisted rhetoric is sickening the hearts of every faithful believer who abides by the teachings of the Mother Church.
Sad to see the LA Archdiocese continue to function as the religious arm of the Democratic Party. Only when it pertains to rights for illegals do the clergy speak out. Nothing about abortion and the sodomite assault on marriage.
It was interesting that the bishops of California were so involved in opposing the death penalty in the last presidential election. They “took a stand” against something that is never enforced (When was the last execution in CA? In the 80s or 90s?) but were silent in the face of the pro-abortion presidential candidate. Sadly, too many priests that I know see nothing wrong with Obama or the HHS mandate and one supply priest went so far as to say publicly that it was “okay” to vote for either candidate as there were no serious moral issues at stake in the 2012 election. Not all of the bishops are silent but it seems that the ones that really count such as Dolan and Gomez are absent when it comes to abortion and politicians who support abortion. The impression they give is that it doesn’t matter and is okay to support any politician regardless of their stance on issues such as abortion.
Gomez is definitely following in the footsteps of Mahony. His newspaper, The Tidings, says it all.
Maybe next May Day (Communist-Socialist Day), we can expect to see Gomez leading the parade and waving a rainbow banner and pledging his love for LA’s West side.
Money talks, folks. If you’re unhappy with your bishop speak softly, where it counts, in the pocketbook. Keep funding them and you will continue to be disappointed. If they truly are as given over to the enemy as they appear, you’ll hear about it. If they truly are good shepherds, you’ll see hem where hey ought to be and NOT where they should not be. Then continue to pray for them. The Way of Divine Love gave an apt description of their end if they fail as bishops. Send them a copy of that book and make certain to highlight those passages. Maybe it will help them to see what the impact of their actions mean. We aren’t supposed to be passive with them. They need our prayers and our guidance, as we do theirs.
Life Lady, many of us have taken this stance, but the LA Archdiocese keeps raising the “chancery tax” on some of the parishes, not excluding, as I mentioned above, forcing them to buy multiple subscriptions to the “Tidings”. They have recently enacted warnings and put pressure on parishes who have accepted restricted donations from parishioners who do not want their money to go to the chancery. Let’s face it the leaders in the LA Archdiocese are Democrats. They don’t just tolerate some of the Democrat policies, they incorporate them into church business.
When the War Between the States erupted in America, pitting the opponents of slavery in the North against the slave-dependent agrarian society of the Confederacy, social, political, and even religious organizations were forced to take sides. Two of the country’s major churches, the Baptists and the Methodists, divided over the issue of slavery–the Baptists remaining separated to this day. The Catholic Church, however, did not break in half, though its unity was severely strained. Instead of dividing, episcopal alliances were virtually along geographical lines. The reason for this was that the Pope, Pius IX, saw the same kinds of threatening tendencies in the American North that had driven him from his papal throne in Italy in 1848. These tendencies in both Italy and America came in the form of progressivism towards a more centralized democracy, economic reform, and opposition to aristocracy. They were considered to be liberal in both Catholic and Southern society, and were viewed as dangerous to the spread of Catholicism. Furthermore, the Church’s own political weakness in America severely hindered her ability to attempt to change anything about slavery other than the hearts of those who condoned it. The Catholic Church considered the tendencies of the North to be more dangerous than slavery, and considered the conservative Southern society to be more suitable to the spread of Catholicism than the North. Source: the angelus online
Anonymous, so was the position the Pope and bishops ultimately right or wrong, or somewhere in between?
The position of the bishop appears to be that of speaking out both sides of his mouth, Tracy. But that is the order of the day. Confusion. Making a mess. And all the while backing it up by the letter of the law which is killing us with increasing rapidity.
But in the end, “…my Immaculate Heart will Triumph.” We’re just going deeper into the schlock of filth that will highlight the absolute sovereign beauty of the Triumph.
The driver’s license issue is very big for farm workers and their unions. So it is okay for Archbishop Gomez to be happy that the bill was signed into law.
HOWEVER, to stage a photo op with those who champion the slaughter of unborn babies and to highlight them in The Tidings, is a huge scandal.
Was there a gun to Abp Gomez’s back?—or does it take very little for Gomez to show his appreciation to the vicious politicians ?
I pray we will not all be possessed and caught up in the devils fire.
I pray for Bishop Cordilone in San Franscisco that he will have the protection of those 3 men who walked through fire, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego., and that we will also have God’s protection as we have to live and breath his evils ways as Catholics.
Obviously AB Gomez needs to have a come to Jesus meeting with Cardinal Burke and be instructed on intrinsic evils. Abortion is an intrinsic evil – it is never
negotiable. AB Gomez is no better than Cardinal Dolan when he yucked it up at the Al Smith dinner with Pres. Obama. A picture is worth a thousand words and AB Gomez spoke volumes with this picture. We surely do need to pray for him and hope that he will recognize his mistake and publicly say so what evil all these politicans are endorising.
“Da qualche fessura sia entrato il fumo di Satana nel tempio di Dio” (“Through a fissure the smoke of Satan has entered the temple of God”)
Pope Paul VI
Juergensen: The “fessura” was the Second Vatican Council. Until we acknowledge and atone for that misguided initiative, our Holy Mother Church will be condemned to wander in the wilderness. There was a brief flicker of hope under the papacy of Benedict XVI, which is now decidedly snuffed out.
This is just heart breaking to see our Clerics agreeing with the far left corrupt Government. I think this ArchBishop should be defrocked and ordered by the Pope not to receive Communion. This is just unbelievable! If we Catholics agree with these anti Christian principles, what in the world will our country come to? As mentioned above, this, ArchBishop is doing exactly what Satan wants you to do!!!!!!!
Judy,
He is also following the horrible example of all but one of the Mexican Bishops who ran when the Cristeros fought!
May God have mercy on an amoral America and its errant bishops!
Viva Cristto Rey!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
Why are my comments in which I clearly identify myself being listed as “Anonymous says”. My Military Serial Number was: 484-01-56. Is that enough to identify me as Kenneth M. Fisher?
May God have mercy on an amoral America and its errant bishops!
Viva Cristto Rey!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
KMF- I am a first-time visitor to this site & have been reading some of the articles and postings for the last hour. I am ISO of spaces where my faith as a Roman Catholic may be fortified, nurtured.
In answer to your question. Maybe the system has grown tired of your compulsive need for attention and your blatant self righteousness. I know I have already. I’m a conservative Catholic, but your postings remind me of my ‘born-again evangelical’ ex brother-in-law. So many people are doomed to hell according to him and the likes. Let us pray for our own spiritual poverty in its many manifestations, before pointing elsewhere. Pray more sir, pray for you, for me…pray for humility and your heart will find the serenity it presently yearns for. Thank you for reminding that I need to follow my own advise.
Guess Archbishop Gomez if following the Pope’s suggestion not to obsess about abortion…
Let’s get serious the Bishop is making a big deal out driver’s license for illegal aliens while he’s associating and chumming up to mass murderers and promoters of perversion. How many babies were dying by having their skulls crushed in the womb as he stood having his picture taken with these killers? He and the overwhelming majority of collaborating California bishops are cowards who need to stand up and start acting like real men and defend the Church.
For those of you who are outside of the LA Archdiocese, here is another one for you. The front, back cover and page 4 of the October 25th “Tidings” has an article and pictures of a recent Mass celebrated for local Catholic school kids. Some of the pictures included are, children waiving multi-collered ribbon streamers, drummers with tribal face painting “processing in”, drummers followed by african style dancing, children holding hands with one another while reaching across the isles during the Our Father, and my favorite, dancers “perform”ing during the “Communion Reflection”. (That particular photo shows a young woman with arms outstretched, back arched, all while being held up by several of her fellow dancers above their heads, horizontal to the ground.)
Yes, we certainly do know how to “CELEBRATE” here in the LA Archdiocese whether it be on the steps of City Hall or in our cutting edge performing arts “Cathedral”!
Tracy this is very sad….it reminds of me when I was in my teens when I didn’t know any better and when I trusted the adults in charge to make sure to show me how to celebrate Mass properly….It is no longer a personal relationship with Jesus but it’s what they can do to entertain the children because of the protestant mentality of “what can we do to make sure religion is fun and that they stay”….but unfortunately many still leave when they leave for college.
National Catholic Reporter names Gomez (formerly Archbishop of San Antonio) as one of their two “front-runners” for the presidency of the USCCB. Their officer elections will be held coming up at their conference in November.
Community Social Workers rule in our Church.
The bishops should keep out of politics excepting cases where church teaching is definitively at issue, i.e. public policy on legality of abortion, euthanasia, fetal stem cell research and experimentation, ‘same sex’ marriage, sexual abuse of minors, for example. These are grave evils that directly violate church teaching (as well as natural law). Immigration reform, budget bills, death penalty, just war, these are matters of prudential judgement. Why the bishops are campaigning for immigration reform (amnesty for illegals), when it is entirely outside of their competence, is because of the millions of $$$ pouring into USCCB from the government. When the church takes government money there are strings attached. Look what has happened to our not-so-catholic colleges and universities since the Land O Lakes decision to take govt funding.
Follow the money, See Ess. You’re absolutely correct. Land O’Lakes is why you have the likes of Sebelius, Pelosi, and Biden. Those well educated, seamless garment folks that we are supposed to ‘trust’ in the Catholic political arena.
But again, there is no crisis in the Church, folks. No crisis.
These California legislators are the very same ones who eagerly voted to pass the two abortion-expanding bills that just became law, AB 154 and AB 980. Governor Brown signed the bills just a couple of weeks ago. Many of us spent the good part of five months walking the halls of the legislature, visiting their offices, trying to convince them to vote No. Seeing all the free campaign publicity they have received by this publication and knowing that many readers will never know how they voted on these anti-life, anti-woman bills makes me feel angry and betrayed!
This is no surprise ! It was obvious as soon as he allowed the same ultra-modernist speakers as always to present at his Religious Ed Conference that Archbishop Gomez is simply Mahony, Part Two !
Dear Friends at Cal Catholic……..If,judging from the headline of this article about Archbishop Gomez, you and your organization are so absolutely sure about who is in league with Satan and who isn’t,perhaps you should offer your services to and share your wisdom with Pope Francis. Hopefully you have a properly trained and holy exorcist who can intervene in any and all such crises.
eloquent observation.
But it’s wrong, eloquent or not.
PMLahey, first point, have you ever had to judge anyone’s ACTIONS? For example, have you ever made the judgment that someone who is killing a baby is doing the devil’s work?
Second point, have you ever tried to get any info over to the Vatican?
If only it were that simple, PMLahey. Having properly trained Exorcists, Priests, Religious, and properly trained Faithful would be a Godsend blessing.
Sadly, we’re at a point of chastisement. Perhaps not so sadly as suffrage brings about appreciation for that which is good and holy instead of the inherent laziness brought about by plenty.
I’ll let you handle the letter to Pope Francis. I’d love to see the answers regarding the myriad obsessions of faithful Catholics. Even if it is a clarification of how his message was skewed.
The song remains the same.
Did “German bishops (turn) out to join Adolf Hitler to open autobahns and Volkswagen factories and then (publish) pictures of the events in their diocesan papers”?
The letter’s author apparently believes this is a rhetorical question, but it certainly is not. The Church has lived in nations hostile to it many times, and outlived them.
Now people will despair….the more nasty and negative headlines there is and more bad and less reflective news on Catholicity…..the more hopelessness on comments we will read…check out some of the new people posting from the top from facebook accounts….some are saying “no wonder people leave the church”….well this website better report also on ways that also edify and inspire one to grow in the faith in order to help those who despair and want to leave the church….
YOU DON’T LEAVE PETER because of Judas!
Abeca, seeing the hypocrisy and scandal in Church leadership is all the more reason to trust in God and his Almighty power. Too many folks trust in the cult of the personality, the cult of this Bishop and his style over that Bishop and his progressive approach etc. Goodness knows, the leaders themselves seem stuck on their own cult of personal style/approach… their psyche books, their geopolitical mindsets, their purely ‘human’ understanding of how to win friends and influence people.
What else would keep them (albeit misguidedly) from proclaiming Truth in its fullness, consistently, whether it was convenient or not, politically correct or not.
As to “no wonder people leave the Church,” it is true. We, the faithful, need to know this and understand the whys/wherefores of people leaving to better combat evil with Truth.
“In the end, My Immaculate Heart will triumph.” That said, I’m all for exposing the filth that will ultimately underscore that which will be truly TRIUMPHANT in every way imaginable and unimaginable.
Guilt by association is a cognitive distortion, a logical fallacy and a sin.
Nellie B. We’re poor because the people at the top (not the foreign born, not the minorities, nor the people of color, nor the illegals) have invested their vast resources in creating policies which protect and prioritize their wealth and power. The rest like you and I are left paying more than our fair chair and them some. Don’t be fooled. Whites make up the majority of people on welfare and public assistance. Ignorance can be misleading. More prayer, piety and prudence. Joseph and Mary were illegal immigrants when they fled with the baby Jesus. Have you thought about that? There were people in that town who treated them like undesirables using those same words “They don’t belong here…” Let us pray for our own spiritual growth before looking elsewhere.
Lori, yes Joseph and Mary were temporary immigrants to Egypt. How do you know that they were there “illegally”? Scripture is silent on this issue. What were the immigration laws in Egypt during this time, if any at all? Do you believe, based on Jesus’ words as an adult that the Holy Family would have done anything illegal, even temporarily? Additionally, Joseph was instructed by an angel of God to flee to Egypt. The reason given was to save Jesus’ life. Herod intended to have him murdered. Scripture also tells us that when the risk of Jesus being murdered was over, Joseph was instructed to return with his family to Nazareth. Of this we know Joseph was also obedient.
Had the Holy Family lived today, they would have been covered under current US Immigration Law for political asylum. The foreigners who I personally know, who came and stay here in the USA in violation of US immigration law can in NO way compare themselves to the Holy Family seeking temporary political asylum in a foreign country.
Well stated, Tracy. Thank you for adding clarity to an otherwise exaggerated emotionalism – an emotionalism that would happily gloss over the perfect balance of charity and justice that is Our Lord’s to the benefit of a particular political agenda.
Thank you Ann for your kind words. After I posted the above, I realized that the Holy Family were never actually
“immigrants” in Egypt at all! The proper word should be that they were temporary “refugees” in Egypt. I am so tired of hearing Catholic clergy comparing present day “illegal immigrants” in the USA with the Holy Family’s “escape into Egypt”. But apparently, since most of us these days lack critical thinking skills, when ridiculous things are preached from the pulpit, the masses just lap it up and nod their heads in agreement.
We ‘lap’ it up because critical thinking skills are purposely dismissed in favor of emotionalism. Emotionalism is far easier for the ‘thinking’ man to control. And use to his advantage for the short and long term.
That is why political issues (abortion, SSM, or even Welfare reform) are painted in the most sympathetic terms possible. That is also why there is such a push to constantly morf and mix language so that ‘terms’ supposedly no longer matters. Just the poor, poor – insert agenda.
Coincidence? This morning (Sunday) I found the reprehensible Tidings cover photo right next to the Monica M. Miller book cover, ABANDONED.
Abandon all hope for our hierarchy to pay any attention to what is a paramount factor in destroying our country.
maybe it meant you have abandoned Christ by turning your back on the bishops and the immigrants and the teachings of Christ on charity.
The teachings of Christ on Charity do not undercut those of Justice, Anonymous. Just like the promise of paradise doesn’t dismiss the reality of Hell. Our Lord ALWAYS spoke the truth.
Can anyone point to commentary from the Catholic “right wing” condemning bishops for being photographed with the pro-abortion George W. Bush? I’d be interested in seeing if the people here are consistent.
I do not recall seeing any photo-op of Cardinal Mahoney with George W. Bush on the front cover of the Tidings, or any other Catholic publication for that matter.
Tom, who is the so called Catholic “right wing” in your mind? I do not recall reading about this category of Catholic in the catechism. Are you referring to Catholics who believe the teachings of Jesus and his Church and who repent and go to the Sacrament of Confession when they violate those teachings?
Does the author know what genocidal means? Whoever wrote this (I do not see a by line) definitely over-reacted. It seems they know nothing about the Catholic Church or the hierarchy. What a silly article.
Do you, Anonymous, understand that the ‘unborn’ are merely immigrants from the most hostile, politically dangerous place in the world whose only crime is the pressing need to pass the border if only to escape being hunted down and killed?
There most definitely is an ongoing agenda of genocide in their country. But you already know that.
As to “…whoever wrote the article and inability to see a byline,” why don’t you creep out of the Anonymous closet and give yourself one? But whether you have a name or not, it seems apparent that you are very up on the Church and the Hierarchy of today. That’s the problem.
Ann, Wow! Well said! By the way, I have actually formed the opinion that “Anonymous” may actually BE in the hierarchy of the Church.
You’re probably right, Tracy. That said, I feel very sorry for those priests who are caught up in this ‘mess’ of having heterodox hierarchy. No easy position to be in. It’s a crucifixion of the mind/will.
That said, I hope priest *are* hiding behind ‘Anonymous’ postings. It is important they come to know the true condition of their disaffected flock – all of it. After all, we only know what we’ve been taught.
The twisted, legalistic mincing of Charity today reminds me of how the Israelites used to rework the law in order to be able to travel on the Sabbath or avoid helping their parents for supposedly holy purposes.
Nobody is kidding anybody here. The Israelites weren’t courting pagans for conversion and in sadly too many incidences of record neither is the Church of today.
” But whether you have a name or not, it seems apparent that you are very up on the Church and the Hierarchy of today. ”
Thank you Ann Malley!
Knowledgeable roaming enabler is the name….strategic selective enabling has been the acquired fame.
Proverbs 14:34 Justice exalteth a nation: but sin maketh nations miserable. Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible
If you are a faithful Catholic, you will welcome a member of the hierarchy.
If you are a faithful Catholic you will exercise the Spiritual Works of Mercy and council the doubtful and educate the sinner, Anonymous. In all due respect and charity, of course.
That is what we are trying to do here.
Then do your instruction in the fullness of Truth, Anonymous. That is acknowledge that there needs to be the welcome of hierarchy, but also the calling out of sin and scandal that seems to be above the pay grade of many who should and actually do know better. And they do, Anonymous.
The charitable thing to do might be to compassionate those faithful who are at their wits end of frustration with what – we on the ground – have seen first hand. That is the rotted fruit fall out of our leaders attempts to work with those who openly reject the peace of Christ. That’s the key here. (What does scripture say the faithful should do with one who has been give correction and rejected it multiple times.)
Lecturing on how the faithful should just trust their seemingly blind guides while the house falls down around them just heaps coals on an already untenable situation. And ‘writing’ to your priest or bishop is a joke. So while we have the hierarchy reaching out to the disaffected unrepentant sinners (Catholic and non-Catholic) for ‘social’ outreach (there’s nothing religious about it) why not reaching out to the Faithful and acknowledging the fortitude required to hang on to what looks to be a worm riddled structure?
That is do a mea culpa in both directions.
Folks haven’t reached this level of disgust out of a lack of charity, Anonymous. Think beyond the Catechism quoting and ask yourself why and how about these very critical, soul threatening situations.
Anonymous, so then are you telling us that you ARE o.k. with us “welcoming a member of the hierarchy” in the same manner as Jesus welcomed members of the hierarchy in His own day?
Well said, Tracy. I’ll have to remember that one!
Yes! Luke 2:46
Luke 2:46 After three days they (Joseph and Mary) found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions.
Anonymous, after Jesus listened to them and asked them questions, He apparently discovered their true nature during that time! Approximately 18 years later he pounded them with the following:
Matt. 15:7-9, “You hypocrites, rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying, ‘This people honors Me with their lips, But their heart is far away from Me.” ‘But in vain do they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’”
Matt. 23:13, “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you shut off the kingdom of heaven from men; for you do not enter in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.”
Matt. 23:15, “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites. You traverse sea and land to make one convert, and when that happens you make him a child of Gehenna twice as much as yourselves.
Matt. 23:27-28, “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which on the outside appear beautiful, but inside they are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness. “Even so you too outwardly appear righteous to men, but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.”
Matt. 23:33, “You serpents, you brood of vipers, how shall you escape the sentence of hell?”
Listening and asking questions doesn’t necessarily imply not calling out a teacher for false or confusing doctrine, Anonymous. If you read further you will know that the ‘all who heard’ were amazed at Our Lord’s answers and understanding.
Some of the liveliest debate at college and even high school lectures comes about when savvy students – in all humility – call the teachers out to explain the so-called logic of their exalted position.
Anonymous, in light of my and Ann’s response to your
Luke 2: 46 answer, I’ll pose the question to you once more. So then are you telling us that you ARE OK with us “welcoming a member of the hierarchy” in the same manner as Jesus welcomed members of the hierarchy in His own day?
CCD did not post my first answer to you which was that it violates the forth commandment. In addition I will tell you that the bishops have been treated like that. They get that a lot. They show their humility when it happens. Second, this is how the people who rebel against the faith treat the bishops. People who want gay marriage, woman’s ordination etc. Because the bishops publicly oppose them, they find them to be obnoxious. Sinful people love to attack the representatives of Christ with Christ’s own words. Am I OK with YOU addressing the bishops like that? No, but it shows where you are at. It also seems as if you have little knowledge of who the scribes and Pharisees actually were. I assume what you are saying is that if Jesus said that to the scribes and Pharisees, you are entitled to say it to the bishops. The bishops are the elect. They are the successors to the Apostles. They are your superiors. You will be committing a sin if you say it to them.
Anonymous, you said that you are not ok with “me” addressing the bishops in the same way as Jesus addressed the leaders of His day. So who in your opinion does the Spiritual Work of Mercy: Admonish the sinner apply to? Anyone but the clergy? One of the most famous examples of a lay person “admonishing a sinner” was St. Catherine of Siena to the Pope. I see that in a more recent article on the US Bishops meeting, someone posted more examples. Why did Holy Mother Church elevate Catherine of Siena to the position of Saint and later Doctor of the Church, if she was such a grave sinner? Who was she to point out to the Pope his errors? Obviously the Church has spoken to this. She was not only a saint but a great teacher of the faith. Anonymous, who are you? Why do you have such a vested interest in defending scandal in the clergy?
St. Catherine of Siena letter to Pope Gregory:
https://medieval.ucdavis.edu/20C/Catherine.html
I am sure that you will see the contrast.
If not, see the letter of Wynette Sills, below, who was able to express herself without attacking the bishop.
Nobody is discounting the need to respect authority, Anonymous. In fact, Tracy and I do respect authority. That is why, when authority is misused and/or causes grievous scandal, it is imperative that those in these critical positions be called out. Not publicly excoriated. But in all honesty, called out on account of the grave damage that they are doing.
As to what is bandied around on this forum, those who love the Faith, know the Faith, know the Bible (not just sound bytes like “…I am what I am by the grace of God,” which is used too justify all manner of filth) are frustrated with failed leadership. They need our HELP! And with that comes honest evaluation.
That is not disrespectful, but rather the height of charity. Don’t deprive yourself the use of reason for fear of disobedience. For that isn’t true obedience but blindness.
Anonymous, let’s not loose tract of why this particular conversation started in the first place. It was you who made the following bold statement, “If you are a FAITHFUL Catholic, you will welcome a member of the hierarchy.” Your final suggestion as to how a “FAITHFUL” Catholic “welcomes a member of the hierarchy” was to suggest that he follow the example of Jesus in Luke 2:46 where Luke tells us that Jesus sat, listen to, and ask questions of the teachers in the temple.
Nowhere in the letter of St. Catherine of Siena, which you linked to, do I see her sitting, listening to, or asking questions of the Pope. While it is true that she approached him in a childlike manner, do you miss the obvious as to how bold and outright forward she, a 14th century woman, was in writing the following, “So take a lesson from the true father and shepherd. For you see that now is the time to give your life for the little sheep who have left the flock. You must seek and win them back by using patience and war—by war I mean by raising the standard of the sweet blazing cross and setting out against the unbelievers. So you must sleep no longer, but wake up and raise that standard courageously”? St. Catherine was clearly more closely imitating Jesus in the “Woe to you” verses of the Gospel than she was in imitating Him in the Luke 2:46 verse of the Gospel, which by the way, you suggested that “FAITHFUL” Catholics follow.
Tracy, this is getting really boring. You want permission to be churlish to the bishops. I’m not giving it. Treat people the way you want to be treated. Obey Jesus. Don’t make him the excuse for rude behavior.
I do not believe that “calling out” a bishop, when he is being scandalous, is rude. I can only assume that you are bored with this conversation because you haven’t been able to convince me otherwise. I would never ask your permission to be rude, because I don’t believe that rudeness is ever called for.
120,000 unborn babies are murdered EVERY DAY in this world. It is not genocide. It is not because of an extermination campaign where they are being targeted because of their race, their nationality, the gender or their religion. (Although genocidal governments and terrorists may use abortion as one of their methods.) They are mostly being killed at the choice of their own mother, although sometimes she is pressured or forced to do so. Please educate yourself on this global tragedy.
I have it is called the documentary “Maafa 21” as well as researchers like Professor La Verne Tolbert, Ph.D. They clearly demonstrate how the genocide is being carried out.
Anonymous, you may also want to further your education at the Unchoice.com. They have done research to show that over 60 percent of women felt pressured or coerced into abortion. Another site would be LiveAction.org. But please don’t stop here. If you ever stood outside an abortion clinic on abortion days, you would see the truth first hand.
Tracy, thank you for the website information. I will amend my post to say that many are pressured or forced to have an abortion.
Dear Archbishop Jose Gomez and Bishops of California,
As a Catholic woman, wife and mother who is active in protecting life, I am very disappointed in your October 11th front page photo of The Tidings showcasing Governor Brown and other notorious pro-abortion political leaders. These state legislators recently passed and Governor Brown signed the largest abortion expansion efforts in decades, AB 154, which will allow non-physicians to perform abortions, and AB 980, which changes the CA Building Code, allowing abortions to be performed in facilities not equipped for surgery.
Which is more important drivers’ licenses or human lives? If these same pro-abortion politicians were advocating the killing of unwanted or inconvenient toddlers, rather than babies in the womb, would you still honor them with a front-page full color photograph? What message of political endorsement did this publication send into the homes of Catholic families and voters throughout your Archdiocese, which has the largest Catholic population in the USA?
This photo is a scandalous betrayal of the foundational teaching of our Church. The political leaders you have honored are active supporters of intrinsic evil, promoting abortion in every way possible, especially targeting women and babies who are poor and vulnerable, including immigrants. Nearly one quarter of all abortions done in the US already occur here in California. This means an estimated one thousand babies are killed and women are hurt by abortion every day across our state. Through the efforts of the politicians featured in The Tidings, the number of babies killed and women hurt will greatly increase.
Feeling betrayed by my own Church and Bishops,
Wynette Sills
Catholic pro-life volunteer Sacramento Diocese
—
Wynette Sills
wsills@succeed.net
916-955-1577
Your letter is excellent. You state the concern without false accusation and demonization. You are a credit to the pro-life movement.
Christ did eat with sinners, but He expected them to reform their lives and to be sorry for their sins. If one hangs around bad people long enough, he will become bad also.” Tell me who your friends are, and I will know more about you”, as the old maxim goes. Another one is ‘birds of a feather, flock together’.
Thank you Father Karl, I agree. Also this Bishop is not Christ but a servant of the Lord and we are to expect better from him and yes even hold him accountable for not doing what our Lord has asked of him. People compare these Bishops to Christ as if they were perfect, they are not, but Christ is Perfect. So we need to question them when they cause confusion or scandals that can hurt the salvation of many. These Bishops can actually give out the wrong impression with their bad actions.
Some here decided to make the statement that Christ ate with the sinners, yes He did because He is our Lord and savior.
In order for it to be scandal, the action has to be a sin. He did not commit a sin. Your hatred for abortion is correct. Hatred for any person is wrong. Should someone lose their salvation because they became angry at the photo and committed a mortal sin because if it, the fault would not be imputed to the bishop. He did nothing wrong. Should someone see the photo and think that they could have an abortion because the bishop was standing with pro-choice politicians, the guilt is not imputed to the bishop. He did nothing wrong. Should someone vote for one of these politicians because they saw the picture, they are not guilty of a sin (unless they vote for them in support of intrinsic evil.) Should someone use the picture as an excuse for voting for support of an intrinsic evil, the guilt is not imputed to the bishop. He is in no way sinning or cooperating with a sin. The “feather” that brought these birds together is driver’s licenses for undocumented immigrants not abortion. The bishops oppose all abortion.
The father of confusion never ends…….no wonder our church and sin are not so easily defined….that is what lukewarm minds do….
The more you learn the faith, the less you will be confused. I am astounded by the ignorance of Catholics concerning the faith…and this is one month before the end of the Year of Faith. It is obvious that people really did not take it seriously and do what the Pope asked them to.
abeca, I just read back my post and realized that you could take it personally. It was a general statement, not aimed at you. I know you have been sick this year and hope you are feeling better.
No problem Anony….no pun taken. God bless you and thank you for your well wishes.
Actually, Anonymous, many posters on this board do know the Faith. That is your problem. (Not sure if you’re one of the priests online) They also understand and accept that there was a Church prior to modernism and that the Popes and Saints that lived, struggled, and died for the Faith didn’t do so because – golly – they didn’t go through the year of Faith and do what the current Pope said. (Keep in mind, the way things have been going, another Pope could adopt another style. For all of Pope Francis’ insistence that one can never go back, hey, we certainly could.)
Regarding your being astounded, the complete reversal of what charity and justice seemingly means in the eyes of the Church is the truly astounding. Like Linda Blair’s head doing a 180 in the Exorcist. Yes, we’ve been given the lovely manual to go out and read all about it, but it just seems a little backward compared to what it used to be (especially when the twisting has occurred during one’s lifetime). And considering the reality that God never changes, that’s a bit difficult to gulp down.
So ‘confusion’, that’s a mild symptom when you consider the bugs floating all around. If the flock weren’t confused, they’d be dead, drugged, diverted or severely uneducated.
Thank you Ann Malley, excellent response to anony…….the truth has been posted many times here and other articles, it’s too bad he still keeps missing it.
And yes confusion is a light description to what the real mess we are in morally…God have mercy….
Appreciate your charitable response to him or her…
abeca, this is the definition of scandal.
It is from the Baltimore Catechism.
I was trying to instruct not to confuse.
In order for one to be guilty of scandal, one must be guilty of a sin.
Q. 1279. What is scandal?
A. Scandal is any sinful word, deed or omission that disposes others to sin, or lessens their respect for God and holy religion.
The previous poster apparently believes many things that have been declared untrue by our Popes, like the hermeneutic of rupture-which is used by both progressives and schismatics to declare that the Catholic Church before Vatican II was a different Church than the Catholic Church of today. That person’s reference to knowing the Faith does not mean the Faith as taught in the Catechism of the Catholic Church 2nd edition.
Abeca, thanks for your encouragement. That said, I’ve come to learn that many who ‘don’t get it’ simply cannot get it as they do not have the life experience to do so. This includes many priests, religious, and faithful who, through no fault of their own, have been led to believe that the Church never thrived prior to Vatican II.
Your response to Abeca, Anonymous, quoting the Baltimore Catechism illustrates perfectly that of using the letter of the law in order to TWIST the spirit of the law.
As to your assertions regarding the ‘previous poster’, that’s Ann Malley, nobody has declared ex-cathedra that there IS a hermeneutic of continuity. Rather that is the lens that the Popes would like us to view that which is radically different from that which was preached at earlier times in the Church. But then I am genetically the same person today as I was when I was born – but am I the same ‘person’ really?
One could argue both ways. But there we are. An argument of words.
So, using your terms, those of the Catechism, posing for public photos with die hard pro abortion politicians can be considered scandalous as it lends itself to misinterpretation. An omission of clarification. A half truth – smiling and glossy. Otherwise, how do you explain Catholic endorsement of said politicians?
That said, all is in accordance with God’s Providence. Vatican II as well. For Our Lord rewards and punishes His people. Confusing times are but a well deserved trial for rebelling against that which formerly was clear …or at the least, clearer.
Well Anony….I do see that sometimes you have a different way of viewing things…..and lets pray that it is always in the truth…it would be most humbling to keep asking our Lord for correction in case one is ever misinterpreting the truth.
May our hearts be purified with our Lord’s body and blood, so that we can love Him more and more and not be blinded by any bad will one may have. I speak for us all…God help us to walk in His path. How lovely is our Lord…more lovelier than we we comprehend. May our souls always hunger for more of Him, hunger more and more that we grow more virtuous. The good Lord knows how far I am from reaching that…..how far many of us still have to go…..We pray for His graces to help us. Its a blessing to call out to our Lord “mercy mercy Lord”, with the understanding that we know how to fear Him, Him who saves, our Abba Lord…..Jmj
Anony if its not scandal then it’s confusion….
“Pact with the devil” is an apt title for what Abp. Gomez is involved with, and, more to the sorrow of the World, what the leaders of the Catholic Church are involved with. In fact, the entire Faith structure adopted since Vatican II leads to accommodationist moral positions. Certainly this outcome is greatly aided by the “Seamless Garment” arguments of Cardinal Bernardin, now seemingly resurrected by Pope Francis. Catholic leaders see no problem in yucking it up with evil, such as was seen in the truly chilling picture of Cardinal Dolan belly laughing at something President Obama — our great abortion and homosexual marriage leader — said at the recent Al Smith dinner. (And at the Notre Dame honors for the President, and the like — much to do with our truly bad man, President.) Certainly Gomez, Dolan, and, sadly, Francis, and many others, would be confused with criticism for their actions as this was how they were taught to think, to believe. When you jettison absolute moral values from Catholic belief and practice, you lose all values. (Remember them movie some time ago, when a handsome stranger offered $1 Million to a loving couple if she would sleep with him?) And, when you play make-up with how you pray, you ultimately lose your faith. Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi, to be sure.
Preview Archbishop Gomez’s new book on immigration
By Jennifer Rey
Archbishop José Gomez’s new book, Immigration and the Next America:
“Renewing the Soul of Our Nation” is a personal, passionate and practical contribution to the national debate about immigration. He outlines a clear understanding of what immigration really is, examines immigration within the history of our nation and of the Church, and lays the groundwork for planning for the future.”
“I’m concerned that the deeper issues at stake in this debate are being ignored and will be left undiscussed, while politicians, labor unions and businesses focus on forging the compromises needed to address the political issues. If this turns out to be the case, it will be more than a missed opportunity. I’m convinced that unless we address these underlying issues, any reform enacted may be only partial and unsustainable, leading to even more injustices and resentments down the road.”
This scandalous photo op IS a grave injustice to God and to the least of God’s helpless little ones. Look at the arrogant and smug faces that are so pleased to receive this Archbishops’s validating support. What a deceitful and confusing feather to place in the murderous cap of Governor Brown. This action makes it appear to many that an Archbishop is willing to place the attaining of a driver’s license above the right to life. This is not following the authentic teachings of the Catholic Church. This is causing and promoting scandal.
Would José Ramón Miguel Agustín Pro Juárez have voluntarily and happily posed for a photo op with the murderers who were currently signing for the deaths of his own brothers in Christ who were being tortured and martyred for the truth? This photo op sends a disgraceful and terribly confusing message about which Master to serve. Jesus did not suffer the Passion and Crucifixion for the attaining of a driver’s license or mixed messages. You do not “renew the soul” of our nation through years of spiritual neglect and cooperation with intrinsic evil. The deeper issues that are at stake ARE being ignored. Our Lady of Guadalupe is the patroness of the unborn not the patroness of attaining a drivers’s license. Our Lady of Akita called it “COMPROMISE” This photo op is another example of horrific compromise and a grievous betrayal to the Mystical Body of Christ.
“Years after he entered the religious state, Father Pro recalled the following simple incident as a major turning point in his response to God’s invitation. He said that he had been a wayward boy, but was converted in the following manner: One day he entered a church while a sermon was being delivered on the Passion of Our Lord. The preacher struck a sensitive chord in the soul of the searching teenager who had just then wandered in, when he repeated this most obvious and yet most forgotten conclusion concerning the agony of the Crucified: “All this, Jesus Christ did and suffered for us, ” he said, pointing to the crucifix, “and we, what are we doing for Him?” “Yes,” thought the young Miguel, “what have I done for Him?” The challenge was like a nail deeply fastened in. He never forgot it, but kept pondering these words in his heart.”
Can. 212
§1 Christ’s faithful, conscious of their own responsibility, are bound to show Christian obedience to what the sacred Pastors, who represent Christ, declare as teachers of the faith and prescribe as rulers of the Church.
§2 Christ’s faithful are at liberty to make known their needs, especially their spiritual needs, and their wishes to the Pastors of the Church.
§3 They have the right, indeed at times the duty, in keeping with their knowledge, competence and position, to manifest to the sacred Pastors their views on matters which concern the good of the Church. They have the right also to make their views known to others of Christ’s faithful, but in doing so they must always respect the integrity of faith and morals, show due reverence to the Pastors and take into account both the common good and the dignity of individuals
“If you don’t behave as you believe, you will end by believing as you behave.”
― Fulton J. Sheen
“America, it is said, is suffering from intolerance — it is not. It is suffering from tolerance. Tolerance of right and wrong, truth and error, virtue and evil, Christ and chaos. Our country is not nearly so overrun with the bigoted as it is overrun with the broadminded.”
― Fulton J. Sheen
Every theologian ought to be a mystic; every D.D., or Doctor of Divinity, ought to be a saint. He knows enough to be one, but he does not will it. I am a D.D., but I am not a saint.
May GOD have mercy on my soul.
As Our Lord said, “Where your treasure is, there is your heart also.” Hence the least love of GOD is worth more than the knowledge of all created things.
Did you know that, in Heaven, an angel is a no-body?
Everything we do, whether good or evil, goes down into our unconscious mind… So at the end of every human life there will be pulled out of our subconscious or unconscious mind the record of every thought, word and deed. This will be the basis of our judgment. Archbishop Sheen
God bless Archbishop Fulton Sheen…I really enjoy learning more on him. He knew that even though people behave in certain ways or even if they knew the teachings of the church and tried to manipulate it….He taught that right is right and wrong is wrong…no matter what. Today we try to get away from our moral duties and we expect less from those in charge of salvation issues. That is why there is no much more confusion. If we truly behaved like we cared about the salvation of others, then what comes out of our actions and words, will not lead others to confusion.
“When we say we fear GOD, we mean we shrink from hurting One Whom we love.” ~Archbishop Sheen
“We do not need a voice that is right when everyone else is right. We need a voice that is right when everyone else is wrong.” ~Bishop Sheen
All this rhetoric about what bishops “would” have done under the Mexican oppression, or under Hitler – as if the answer is obvious – is nonsense. Bishops really DID do things under the Mexican oppression and under Hitler, and photos of them with governmental leaders do exist.
The photos with Nazis in particular are usually hosted by websites spewing anti-Catholic hatred, and with the fundamentalist’s disregard for any fact or interpretation not in accordance with their propoganda purposes. The obvious fact that Germans needed sacraments, or that Church leaders negotiated with Calas, or that there were any number of other reasons why physical proximity would be advisable is ignored. Such is the case here, as well.
This photo op and its placement is certainly a prudential judgement by Gomez, and may well be incorrect. However, calling it the selling of his soul is calumny and ignores the common historical problem of civil governments at odds with the Church. As the recent examples of Germany and Mexico make clear, that opposition can, and often has, been worse and yet the Church has soldiered on. I believe this is what Gomez is doing.
Well, you see them by their true colors.
Yes…I agree and may the Blood of Jesus heal them….
IF the modern V2 Church were truly Catholic, loyal and faithful to Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ’s teachings then, these wide-ranging problems, scandals, controversies, and disagreements amongst the laity in doctrine and its practices wouldn’t exist. National Polls have shown 2/3rds of modern Catholics believe the Eucharist is only a symbol,
Lack of faith within, and wayward leaders of, aren’t new to the Church. Our real history, as opposed to propaganda, is not an unbroken time of wise popes, parental priests, and loving, caring nuns presiding over well-catechized, obedient, and moral masses sitting gratefully in the pews.
Periods of Real history, have, like now, always been the best of times, and the worst of times. What they share is that like now, noisy authorities that insist the times be described using only the most superlative comparisons.
Find refuge from all the modern evil in the world by seeking Our Lady and Our Lord, in a traditional Roman Catholic Parish. You will be relieved and happy you did! Pray the Rosary for world peace.
Blessed John Paul II with Bill and Hilary Clinton:
https://www.boston.com/news/specials/pope/galleries/retrospective?pg=2
Pope Benedict XVI and Nancy Pelosi
https://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2009/02/pelosi-the-pope.html
Pope Benedict and Barack Obama:
https://content.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1909972_1908917,00.html
Nobody is beating up on Pope Francis, per se, or just the immediate leadership of today, Anonymous. But you’re not gaining any foothold of credibility by showing previous Popes photographs with political leaders. Especially that of Pope Benedict with Nancy Pelosi.
Explaining my position to you would be a waste of time.
America, it is said, is suffering from intolerance. It is not. It is suffering from tolerance of right and wrong, truth and error, virtue and evil, Christ and chaos. Our country is not nearly so much overrun with the bigoted as it is overrun with the broadminded.
-Bishop Fulton Sheen, “A Plea for Intolerance”, 1931
“Moral principles do not depend on a majority vote. Wrong is wrong, even if everybody is wrong. Right is right, even if nobody is right.” — Fulton J. Sheen, 1953
Abeca, thank you for posting this. Sadly, too many modern day Catholics actually believe that “tolerance” is a virtue! This is sadly being taught to our children in Catholic schools and catechism classes.
I agree Tracy…they are teaching that and we should be saddened…you are a good soul for you understand why we must suffer due to this society adopting views away from God, ones that do not lead to true virtue.
Let us offer up our rosary prayers this week for our youth and their parents…..and that God gives the adults in leadership roles a heart of conversion…..
I pray that more and more will fear the Lord………
“”When society reaches this stage, and there is no standard of right and wrong outside of the individual himself, then the individual is defenseless against the onslaughts of cruder and more violent men who proclaim their own subjective sense of values.” –Bishop Fulton J. Sheen, “Kicks”
Big Differences Anonymous! Who do you think you are fooling! You are certainly not fooling Christ!
1. Blessed John Paul II was at the airport when the Clintons came to meet with him……If and I mean “if” they were going to repent this could have been by the Vicar of Christ as a Prodigal son or Prodical daughter moment. It is good to always be open to receive a repentant heart. Caring about the salvation of souls is different than an act of collaborating and helping the Clintons enact a politically motivated drivers’s license law. Blessed John Paul II lamented before his death the fact that he had not shown more strict discipline to those who were in need of it. The fruits of the horrific sex abuse scandals have wreaked absolute devastation in Christ’s vineyard.
2. Pope Benedict XVI and Nancy Pelosi. Another possibility of a potential Prodigal daughter moment. Nancy traveled to meet with the Vicar of Christ. The Vicar of Christ did not meet with her to politically collaborate with her to help her enact a driver’s license law to benefit Democratic votes. This is how it appears and this is what gives scandal. Big difference. Our shepherds were entrusted by Christ to care about the salvation of souls not attaining politically driven driver’s licenses.
3. Pope Benedict XVI and Barack Obama Barack Obama and his wife traveled and had an audience with Pope Benedict XVI. On that visit the President promised to reduce abortions in the United States, a diplomatic effort to address an issue that separates the Vatican and Obama’s administration. Pope Benedict XVI did not help the pro-abortion Barack Obama enact a politically advantageous driver’s license law. Big Difference.
The accusation is that a bishop being in a picture with pro-choice politicians is an endorsement of them and all they believe.
Your issue with this seems that more people might vote for someone you don’t want them to vote for.
Yes, Anonymous, you’ve got it!!!!! That is what the scandal is. That is what it means to be a leader and have to watch your actions so as to not adversely influence your subordinates who are supposed to be under your CARE.
Are you just beginning to see that point?
What with all the ‘Anonymous’ posters floating about it’s difficult to tell who thinks what.
….almost forgot, Anonymous.
“…Your issue with this seems that more people might vote for someone you don’t want them to vote for.”
It’s not a personal position of ‘who YOU (Abeca) don’t want them to vote for.” The issue is politicians who, like pork belly legislation in D.C., will market themselves with a few cherry picked Catholic issues in addition to that which is anti-Christ. (It’s all about getting their way…. I mean, your vote.)
Kind of like the United States dangling foreign aid to needy countries, but only if they disregard their cultural norms and consciences to allow the perversion of SSM and unrestricted abortion. Not very charitable.
Ann why did you say Abeca??? I am not Anonymous!
I said Abeca because the Anonymous poster indicated that you were only concerned with voters not voting the way you wanted them to vote.
In other words, he/she seemingly accused you of only being interested in the scandalous actions of Church hierarchy for political reasons. Nothing could be further from the truth from what I’ve read of your posts. And I do not like it when Anonymous posters, especially, deride those with actual names who seek to defend the Faith.
Thanks for asking :)
Ann thank you for clarifying…..sure clears things up and you are right. Thank you for understanding my stand and please forgive me for the misunderstanding, but glad I asked…that is how we can clear the air and communicate well in charity. : ) God bless you.
No worries about misunderstanding, Abeca. We’re all human and these posts – especially with the added Anonymous threads – get confusing.
Happy All Saints Day!
You forgot one Anonymous.
RORATE CÆLI: Prince, or politician?
rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2013/05/prince-or-politician.html
Avoid scandal and avoid even the appearance of giving scandal! Jesus did dine with sinners. This photo op certainly does not look like Barack Obama is being asked to “go and sin no more.” Jesus is not portrayed in this teaching gospel with belly roll laughing and joking with the woman caught in adultery. Jesus treats her with the serious care and the serious dignity that her sinful behavior warranted. Barack Obama has legislated the mass murder of the unborn.
John 8: 7 When, therefore, they continued asking Him, He lifted up Himself, and said to them: He who is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. 8 And again stooping down, He wrote on the ground [the names of all their sins]. 9 But they hearing this, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest. And Jesus alone remained with the woman standing in the midst. 10 Then Jesus lifting up Himself, said to her: Woman, where are they who accused you? Has no man condemned you? 11 She said: No man, Lord. And Jesus said: Neither will I condemn you. Go, and now sin no more!”
Your link does not work, but I found it anyway. It is a picture of Cardinal Dolan and Barack Obama. How can you post that scripture quote and not understand which Jesus Christ is trying to tell you? Stop condemning people. (and Obama was admonished at that dinner, by Cardinal Dolan referring to the fact that Al Smith had a tear in his eye for, among others, the fragile, helpless unborn.)
How can you not understand what reality is telling you, Anonymous? Catholics voted in Barak Obama. So Cardinal Dolan’s approach of Al Smith dinners and politics isn’t working. It hasn’t worked.
The soft shoe of politics (something Our Lord never dabbled in) needs to be tossed for the harder teachings of Christ. That is spiritual Truths. If you do not eat My Body and drink My Blood, you will have no life in you. Push comes to shove, my friend.
That said, Our Lord also leveled the greater sins at those who handed Him over to Pilate (the Gentiles). So who are we to believe that the greater sin will not be leveled at us (His Bride the Church) for handing Him over to those would crucify Him again and again in the souls of scandalized youth and demoralized believers?
The pagan horde may not know better. But we do. It’s time we acted as such!
The ones who handed Jesus over to Pilate were the Jews, not the Gentiles. The Al Smith dinner is a fundraiser for charity. Most of your posts are impossible to understand. I honestly don’t know what you are talking about.
Thanks for responding, Anonymous.
Yes it was the Jews that turned Christ over to the Gentiles (that is the non-believers). The Catholic Church is the new Israel, Anonymous, the people of the New Covenant.
The parallel is that Christ condemned the Pharisees as carrying the greater guilt when compared to Pilate. Why? Because the Pharisees should have known better. The Gentiles did not. We as followers of Christ (Truth) should know better than to behave the way we do. For the greater guilt will be with us for withholding and/or trying to hide the Truth.
As for the Al Smith dinner – really, it’s a charity dinner? Thanks for the information. Of course, it is a charity dinner, Anonymous.
The message is that we Catholics have been basically selling out the Truth more and more under the perceived mantle of the greater good. Charity dinners instead of the charity of Truth.
Sorry if that is still not clear. But it’s kind of difficult to know where to begin. Try using something besides ‘Anonymous’ so your thoughts can be tracked.
Jesus told Pilate that he had authority from God. That is why his sin was less than those who handed him over to him.
No, Anonymous, you are incorrect.
Sorry, Anonymous, but my response got cut off. To continue:
…the Pharisees received their authority from God as well (all authority comes from God). It was the knowledge that the Pharisees had of this reality and the scripture that foretold of Jesus’ coming that made their sin greater. (Knowledge increases culpability.)
Pilate was a third party, desiring to squelch rebellion of all sort. He was no religious scholar of theologian. Our Lord’s words to Pilate would indicate that He didn’t hold Pilate out to be the major player in this game of wanting to kill Truth. (The man was a Pagan and didn’t know what Truth was at the time.)
Ann, look up the passage.
You don’t think I did already? Goodness, Anonymous.
Look beyond that single passage to the whole context. That is your problem it seems. Plucking out words and phrases – sound bytes – as if that will render their entire meaning.
There is no more explaining to you if you don’t understand that. But hey, even the Devil can quote scripture.
Pax.
Ann, I sure would love to have you as a debate partner!
Thanks for the offer, Tracy. I’d love to tag team with you.
Ethnic solidarity on the issue of driver’s licenses for illegal immigrants apparently lead Archbishop Gomez to a lapse in judgment. I am sure that it is often difficult to balance the roles of religious and civic leadership. This wasn’t one of those times. Those persons he shared the moment of celebration with need conversion not a propaganda photo op.
” I am sure that it is often difficult to balance the roles of religious and civic leadership. ”
Jim Brown, Please let us know the reason why you have apparently lost faith and trust in understanding the authentic meaning of having the almighty and supernatural grace of God on your side. In the measure you place your obedience and trust in only God, that is the measure of lapses of judgement. Also, Archbishop Gomez personally told my friend that he did not think that the group named La Raza was a Marxist group when my friend respectfully asked him to reflect on the scandal being caused by Archbishop Gomez’s close ties with this group. How does one deny the Marxist’s leanings of this group? Is that just another so called “lapse” in judgement too? When I called San Antonio to ask someone that I know if we should be crying or celebrating when we heard the news that Archbishop Gomez was our new Archbishop, the gentleman said that Archbishop Gomez had done very little to clean house in San Antonio. Our shepherds are not following the example of Jesus by throwing out the money changers in the temple. Our shepherds have locked arms with the political money changers who do not care about the salvation of souls. They care about the salvation of political agendas. This is how it appears to many and scandalous ties and appearances after the horrific sex abuse scandals are costly. They scatter the sheep. They do not gather the sheep. In other words, if the mission is to keep scattering the sheep, then strategic lapses of judgement might satisfy the gullible but it will never be pleasing to God.
Poor La Raza
Inherent in the nature of a Catholic (Universal) Church, is accommodating different cultures – while retaining the Core Identity of the Church, as explained by the Magisterium / Catechism.
SSADly, making alliances with Political Movements that seem to support some Just Ends – often leads to Use the Church as a Cheerleader for all other sorts of different ‘Causes’ – Some simply Not part of the Faith, and some outright hateful and destructive to it.
The encouragement and appeal to Racial Chauvinism and Revenge driven Animosity central to the tactics of the Abomination, has worked well for them – particularly hijacking the Moral Authority of the Church (which they otherwise reject) for use in promoting divisive race baiting propaganda scams
The Politics of “La Raza” (The Race) are found mostly in the southwest USA, where terms like “Reconquista of Atzlan’ are shorthand for Re-Stealing what Anglos unjustly stole from the Spaniards, who had already Stole it fair and square from whatever was there before them – and thus have first dibs on the spoils.
Although less frequently used by Cubans or Argentinians, the agenda of ‘Por La Raza, Todos; Por Los Otros – Nada’ (For The Race – Everything, For the Others – Nothing)…
– Remains real popular in CA; who now issue American drivers licenses for citizens for foreign nations (who could get Licensed in their Native Land and still use it here – just like US tourists do overseas) as a form of Revenge / Reconquista – La Raza Style, if not particularly Catholic.
–