The following comes from an Apr. 28 posting on Patheos.com.
Contrary to popular opinion, either/or ways of living are not the hallmark of Christianity. Both/and pathways to holiness, on the other hand, are.
The Catholic Church is big on third ways, if you think about it. Ever since Jesus died, was buried, and rose again, a different way of being, of living, and of thinking, was made manifest in the world. The early Christians embraced the Way, the Truth, and the Life, without any help from civil authorities, and from a position of complete powerlessness. And yet the third person of the Trinity, the Holy Spirit, changed the world through them.
The Holy Spirit still calls us to do the same today. Catholics like to talk about the true, the good, and the beautiful. When one decides to live in a manner built upon the foundation of these three Christian ideals, unconventional solutions, third way solutions, are the inevitable result.
So, comes the newest creation by the folks at Blackstone Films, wherein our brothers and sisters who bear the cross of same-sex attraction explain in their own words why the fruit of Catholic thinking regarding homosexuality needs to move out of the shadows, and into the warm embrace, of the Church (aka you and me).
This may be the best 38 minutes and 14 seconds you’ll spend on the subject of the theology of the body.
Pascal-Emmanuel Gobry, my blog neighbor, shares a few thoughts on the film.
“If only this was the baseline for catechetical efforts!”
Amen!
To watch the video, click here.
To read the original posting, click here.
As part of the second commandment of Jesus – Love your Neighbor – we should do everything we can to get as many people as possible to Heaven.
Those with SSA (same sex attraction) can get to Heaven, just like everyone else.
Be certain to know the teaching of the Church regarding homosexual acts, etc., so that you will not propagate error.
CCC # 2357, 2358, 2359, 2396 (along with the related Bible passages in the footnotes.)
This is further evidenced by Pope Benedict that those will SSA can get to Heaven –
“Letter to the Bishops of the Catholic Church on the Care of Homosexual Persons”
https://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19861001_homosexual-persons_en.html
The Church does not pick on those with SSA.
ALL unmarried persons are expected to live chaste (non-sexual) lives.
(Married persons – one man and one woman, and are expected to live chaste lives in family planning – that it be natural (NFP).
MAC – see my post below if it gets approved. This should help you see in a very factual way why this film is not all that it claims to be. Posted with respect and hope for objective discussion.
I agree with you that the Church does not pick on those with SSA.
Members of the Church, however, pick on those with SSA all the time. Have you read the comments on this site?
This is a very good video. It is appropriate for all people, not just those who struggle with homosexual attraction. Some struggle with addictions, out of control behavior, heterosexual acting out, tendencies toward violence, feelings of inadequacy, guilt over past mistakes including bullying others or causing harm to another through carelessness or ignorance or accident.
Please watch the video.
Christ Himself has said that He came to call sinners and not the self-righteous. However, once Christ calls you, you are supposed to cease sinning. He told Mary Magdaline, go and sin NO MORE! In the early Church, one was only supposed to go to confession ONE time. Things have changed, and the sacrament of Penance is more available. BUT as long as we try not to sin, and avoid the near occasions of sins, then Christ’s loving mercy will always be available to us. But we MUST try, and with God’s grace, this CAN be accomplished.
Ummmm…….Fr. Karl, in The Gospel of John, ch. 8, there was a woman caught in adultery to whom Jesus says “Go and sin no more.” The Gospel does not identify her as St. Mary Magdalene. Are you sure you’re a priest?
How do you reconcile this with the words of Jesus? The Gospel of Our Lord according to St. Matthew instructs as to how often WE must forgive (18:21-22). How much more will God forgive the soul who asks? If we are not sinning and avoiding the near occasions of sin we may not be in need of the Sacrament. What need have we of the Sacrament of Penance? In the Gospel of Our Lord Jesus according to St. Mark makes it very clear who has need of Mercy (2:17).
Your are incorrect in your idea of of what will give us access to God’s Mercy. It is not to “try not to sin and avoid of occasions of sin…” as you wrote but consists of true confession of sin, imperfect or perfect contrition and a firm purpose of amendment.
I don’t know where you came up with your requisites for God’s Mercy. Are you a real Roman Catholic priest? Anyone can make up their ID. I’m not really a Mook. :)
This film is dishonest from the start. I watched the first several minutes, then realized that it was pointless to continue. It begins with a woman who tells us how she asked God to change her same-sex attraction, but “nothing happened.” There was no mention of persistence in prayer or Jesus’ parable on it (the judge who, at last, granted the woman what she asked because of her persistence). Neither was there mention of celibacy for those with same-sex attraction. Instead, there was only emotionalism at the expense of reason. Further, there was, following the introduction, a barrage of out-of-context video clips showing hostilities against persons with same-sex attraction. Yet, most if not all of the hostile ones were not Catholic, and this in a film purportedly about how the Catholic Church needs to change on same-sex attraction! A similar barrage of video clips could also have been made showing homosexualist aggression against us “breeders.” This is a dishonest film for haters of the Truth.
The video is all about chastity and living in the freedom of Christ. All those people abandoned homosexual sex for Christ.
Thank you. After reading your post, I watched more of the video, and it turned out to be what you said it was—despite the misleading start. Mea culpa.
Catholics — at least not Orthodox ones — do not talk about the “true, the good, and the beautiful.” This silliness calls on nothing more than emotionalism, subjectivism, and all that — nothing about recognizing your sinful behavior, repenting of sinfulness, and promising to avoid sin and even the near occasion of sin. The problem with homosexual sexualists, and with the many, many Catholic clergy that are themselves homosexuals, or enablers of same, is this: they live for one thing, and one thing only{ to have everyone, but particularly the Catholic Church, tell them that what they are doing sexually is fine and dandy. They see Jesus as a sort of benevolent Dr. Frankenstein: you made me, now love me as I am! That ain’t gonna happen! There may be Church flirtations here and there, but homosexual sex is an abomination, each and every time that it is done. And it is far wrong to see homosexual sex as “only one of any number of sexual sins” kind of like masturbation, fornication, adultery and lusting in your heart (how can you stop doing that, huh?). Sodom and Gomorrah was just this — “to’ebah” — the abomination of same sexual actions in Hebrew (and not the phony “lack of hospitality”) that brought down the wrath of God. Too bad the Church is so heavily “lavender” and its leaders — not including Pope Benedict XVI — so craven to homosexual insistence. OK, go ahead and believe in the “Third Way” or whatever dopey sheet cover you wish to use to attempt to deny the illicit nature of any homosexual sex. God is not fooled.
You did not watch the video to the end.
Lol, the only one trick ponies I see are all the people on this blog who only comment on matters of abortion and LGBT issues. Where is your outrage at the lack of charity demonstrated by Catholics, Catholics who support indiscriminate murder by way of drone, Catholics who don’t attend confession? You have spent all of your time focused on divisive social issues and failed to teach the love of Christ. I assure you, no non-christian who reads this blog would be persuaded to explore Jesus Christ. This is as bad as a gossip magazine.
Vatican City, Mar 20, 2013 / 06:50 am (CNA/EWTN News).- Pope Francis told world religious leaders that the desire to search for truth, beauty and goodness is what keeps them all united.
You might also reflect on St. Thomas Aquinas’ teachings on the transcendentals of truth, beauty and goodness…
The Third Way is living a chaste life in Christ. It accepts the sinful nature of all sex outside of a marital union. It is what is required by the Catholic Church.
St.Christopher, here is a recent essay by one of the most faithful, intelligent Catholic priests I know..https://www.crisismagazine.com/2014/verbiest-the-priest-who-invented-the-automobile?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+CrisisMagazine+%28Crisis+Magazine%29
It is all about truth and beauty. Read books by Anthony Rizzi, a Catholic physicist, or https://www.crisismagazine.com/2013/ever-ancient-ever-new-the-role-of-beauty-in-the-restoration-of-catholic-culture
If it’s ugly (like modern churches) it is a lie!
All sin is destructive to the person, their family and friends. It does not matter if you are involved in sexual sin or stealing or gossip. Sin eats at your mind and can destroy your faith. God does not answer in your time He answers in His time. You know the laws of God and it is up to you to follow them. Obedience is difficult until you realize how much control you have with the Lord on your side. All moments of good feelings from a sin are instantly erased by the gnawing guilt of the conscious. Evil grows with with weakness and despair. Evil can also grow with pride.
This is fine… all it’s doing is attempting presenting the official Church position as welcoming and compassionate.
The beginning is a bit cringe-worthy; it’s not presenting people as much as Freudian-era determinist psychological stereotypes. The idea that homosexuality is caused by psyche damaged by bad parenting or childhood trauma, and that sexual orientation is an empty pathological compulsion akin to a drug binge feels very Victorian. That’s not to say that there aren’t people who fit that model, but it’s probably a small minority. All but one of people here are presented as hopelessly frail and damaged. I found myself wondering if those are the ones more likely to seek acceptance, rather than challenging the Church position.
But there’s nothing to criticize, really. It’s not challenging any doctrine, and the compassion goes a long way.
It’s entertaining to watch supposedly orthodox Catholics express outrage about it.
I’m kind of reluctant to post this, but if “Anonymous” is so all over this video as being effective in battling against S.S.A., I’m kind of suspicious about it. For he’s always a little equivocal about the whole subject of gayness, S.S.A., etc. And in one of his posts above, Anonymous refers to “heterosexual acting out.” What’s that all about? Is that when one who suffers from S.S..A. tries to flee the temptation to act on said “attraction,” and instead he or she goes “all heterosexual,” maybe goes on a date with the OPPOSITE sex, and isn’t being “true” to his or her “real” orientation? I’m not sure what “heterosexual acting out” really means, so perhaps I’m stumbling in the dark. Anonymous, please enlighten all here, and define what that phrase means for all of us. BTW, there’s still NARTH and ‘Courage’ to help heal those who’re suffering from S.S.A., and from what I’ve read of them, they REALLY WORK; that’s why the GayMafia hates these organizations so much. Just saying. VIVA CRISTO REY!
Markrite, do you have magic powers of discernment? How can you tell one anonymous from another? ;o)
Heterosexual acting out is now called sex addiction. Having many sexual partners of the opposite gender. My point was the Jesus Christ is the Way, the Truth and the Life. In all brokenness and selfishness and sin, encountering Jesus Christ is transformative.
BTW, NARTH doesn’t work, and one of its co-founders was found to be having an affair with a young “assistant” not too long ago.
The Third Way…..sin no more
No human, save Mary and Christ, have been able to follow this “third way”. Peter, the rock upon which the church was built. sinned after being called and converted. In fact, he denied Christ in his greatest time of need.
I think this whole propensity to sin is somehow related to Christ teaching that we should not forgive 7 times, but seventy-seven times.
Confess, repent and sin no more. It can be done. Mary Magdalena
understood. Conversion is when we turn away from sinful behaviors and stop sinning. Jesus calls us all to conversion. You’ve gone off topic–there is a 3rd way–to live as a sober alcoholic, chaste single person or SSA & chaste.
Just watched this video and I have to admit that it really hit a nerve(Good)! I think every Courage Group should watch this video! http://www.CourageRC.Net! And discuss, talk, go over the video! And have Group discussions!
I just happen to know about two of the people shown in the film. Richard Cohen is a fundamentalist Protestant who runs a business of claiming to turn gay people straight by bizarre methods. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfMtA1F9eJo for details.
Huh? They couldn’t find enough gay Catholics and had to turn to a Holy Roller (apologies for the lack of charity) quack?
The second woman is Melinda Selmeys, the brilliant author of Sexual Authenticity. Her account of her childhood does not follow the distant father/ Smothering mother theory they are pushing. The CCC says the causes of homosexuality are largely unknown. If you want to get inside the head of a Catholic lesbian read her book https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfMtA1F9eJo
Oh … also check this one out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ionmAFRtz9o
It would be funny if it wasn’t so sad.
Catholic lesbian= a contradiction in terms
I don’t know about that… to be honest, the Catholics that comprise the majority of CCD posters have more in common with the Bob Jones / Pat Robertson / James Dobson camp of Evangelicals than any Catholics I’ve ever known.
… and I come from a huge, very Catholic family, went to parochial schools… I have one aunt and three great aunts that are/were nuns, and a cousin who was professor of theology at a Newman Guide school.
I am fascinated, and also slightly horrified by the things people post here. This is not Catholicism. It’s mostly arch conservatism that happens to also identify Catholic.
Most of this is not from the Catholic Church. Is it being taught at “independent” traditionalist chapels? Are they getting it from media? A few posters seem to reflect non-Catholic Christianity and Evangelical thought. I am from an area of the country where evangelicals are the majority and I have never heard anything like the vitriol that is said on this website. I have a feeling that they were not educated in Catholic schools or if they were, it was a long time ago. Discussion, debate and even arguments are set aside for comments that are hostile, uneducated, illogical and combative. A few people seem to attempt a type of Socratic discussion but other’s join in with distracting and offensive comments so that those who are trying to present logical argument are soon drowned out by the silliness.
On another topic about war and drones Siollan says:
May 18, 2014 at 2:44 am
“To win a war, there needs to be a war. There needs to be some clear measure of objective, and a determination of what winning even means.”
Siollan says:
May 16, 2014 at 7:38 pm
“I am fascinated, and also slightly horrified by the things people post here. This is not Catholicism. It’s mostly arch conservatism that happens to also identify Catholic.”
Siollan, To win a spiritual war then you must also admit that there is a war or battle for souls. Our clear objective should first be a desire to be pleasing to God. I am quite sure that the father of lies finds it real fascinating that he is able to also tempt you into using your God given gift of a fine intellect as a manipulative trolling tool to undermine Truth. You wrote the above statement regarding drones while you are able to pretend that there is no clear measure of determining what it means to win the most important battle on this earth which is a spiritual battle. Your posts NEVER defend or uphold Church teaching. There is no doubt that you are intelligent but then again so is the devil and it appears that you have fallen into the cunning trap of enjoying a very blinding self-elitism. Not a one of us will ever get to heaven by being a self-elitist legend in our own mind. The reason that you are “slightly horrified” by the comments is that you perhaps have never really reflected for example on the humility of the three little children of Fatima and how pleased God was to send his mother to these humble little children in order inspire clear determination to win the battle and Triumph of the Immaculate Heart.
Catherine, I don’t see much opportunity to defend or uphold Church teaching here. 90% of the stories and comments here are anti-gay venom, or hysteria about the breakdown of some supposedly superior view of gender, etc. Those are mostly cultural traditions that are tertiary at best in terms of their importance in the grand scheme/totality of Church teachings… but apparently that’s all that matters to a lot of people.
I think you’ve really lost focus of what’s important, if you’re framing this as some epic spiritual battle. It’s really not. And the process of focusing so intently on it has given rise to a lot of objectively negative undercurrent. There is really no excuse for bigotry, or defamatory, deceitful propaganda. I find it incredibly offensive, and there is something of an echo chamber dynamic happening here, that tends to amplify the hyperbole.
I don’t see that as Catholicism… certainly nothing I’ve ever encountered, and find it much more akin to the kind of fundamentalist evangelical Christian Right that has always made me wince, and feel thankful to have been raised Catholic; with its long tradition of intellectual thought and reason, and centuries of meditation on morality and theology… a lot of what I see here reduces all of that to a few convenient passages that sanctify personal prejudices.
I’d love to see more stories and dialogue about Church teaching, and how it relates to contemporary life, but all I see is Culture War… framed in terms of Us v. Them, which isn’t even accurate. A lot of Catholics are Them, too.
Siollan you wrote: “I’d love to see more stories and dialogue about Church teaching, and how it relates to contemporary life, but all I see is Culture War… framed in terms of Us v. Them, which isn’t even accurate. A lot of Catholics are Them, too.”
Siollan, Instead of you calling it a culture war, isn’t it more about each and every one of us striving to be pleasing to God by resisting all different kinds of sin which does offend God. All throughout the history of the world if there was not an epic battle for the salvation of ALL souls, then there would have been no need for God to send us a Redeemer. How contemporary are these words to EACH and EVERY ONE of us. “Go and sin no more?”
Siollan, Could you please give a clearer example or clarify exactly what you mean when you said you would like stories about how Church teaching relates to contemporary life? Could you cite an article? We might be living in modern times but sin is never fashionable. Yes, it is true that Jesus did ask us to “love one another, as I have loved you” but as Sacred Scripture says, “There is nothing new under the sun” and Jesus also said, “If you keep my commandments, you shall abide in my love.” Do you dismiss specific Church teaching as not being contemporary as well as not upholding the importance of Jesus’s commandments?
So, Canisius, what would you do if your teen age daughter, assuming you had one, came to you and announced that she was a lesbian? Would you tell her she is no longer a Catholic? Would you banish her from your home? What if a son came to you and announced that he was gay? Those are hypothetical. Here is a real one: In Cleveland teachers are being asked to sign contracts to teach in Catholic schools that has a list of behaviors that are unacceptable including supporting the gay life style. A mother, who has taught over ten years in a local catholic school has a son who is gay. Is she now prevented from signing the contract? Must she give up her job because she loves and supports her son? Glib answers to serious questions never work!
As usual, you’re obfuscating the issue with specious arguments. Here’s what you’re saying in the most simple terms which even you can understand bob. You’re saying that Henry Ford’s son has decided he hates Fords and he wants Ford Motors to start making Chevy’s and if they don’t change, he’s suing his father for unspeakable cruelty and prejudice. He gives Ford’s latest technology secrets to GM and begins holding secret meetings with workers to awaken them to the unfair business practices of Ford. Soon, like Continental Airlines merging with United, they become Ford/GM and finally GM and Ford becomes a distant memory. The idea of hiring known homosexuals is preposterous to anyone who truly believes in the Catholic faith. You do not ask Communists to teach Capitalism in public schools. How stupid does one have to be not to see this plain and obvious fact?
PS…we’re talking about people who make it known of their sexual preferences who have NO INTENTION (unlike the faithful, beautiful people in this video) of changing or repenting. These are people who are demanding the Church accept them as they are. It’s utterly incredible to me that a self-described Catholic thinks Catholic schools should back down to these bullies. If I had a child that told me he or she was of same sex attraction I would always love them, but if they chose to ‘live the life’ and not in chastity, it would be the same as if they decided to live together without marriage. I had a cousin whose husband did not allow their son to come to their home until he married the woman he was living with…he had grandchildren that he did not want to be influenced, nor did he want to give his son the message that what he was doing was acceptable. Sound tough? It was, but in the end, it ended well because of true faith, true manly leadership in the home. No one said it was going to be easy. It isn’t love to tell your children that sinning is okay. In fact, it is just the opposite…one is not willing to go that extra mile for their sake. So much easier to buckle under!
Here is your answer Bob One, both would be told to conform their lives to the will of Christ and the dogma of the Church, if not yes they would tossed out of the house. I will not bend to them, they will bend to Christ. Perhaps Bob One, you are OK with unrepentant mortal sin, but I am not. Yes the mother in question should quit if she continues to support her son’s “lifestyle” Straight answers to liberal question, smashing liberal nuance with brutal truth…..
What constitutes support to you, Bob One?
This Catholic mother could help her son to live in accordance with the Catholic Faith. If she is a believing Catholic, that is precisely what one must do. Nobody is ostracizing anyone with same sex attraction, but rather pointing out the need to combat that which is gravely sinful.
While glib answers may not be called for, neither is attempting to call out the upholding of Catholic teaching as somehow un-Catholic.
Unfortunately, Cansius, many “Christians” toss their gay children out of the house, and this is why about 40% of homeless youth are LGBT. This is a scandal that our Church should work to eliminate through sound pastoral teaching.
YFC here is a pastoral teaching for you avoid mortal sin, when you fall go to confession. Do not twist Church teachings to suit your own lifestyle in the name “tolerance”…
Canisius, here is my pastoral teaching for you: Any parent who would throw their own kids out onto the streets, for WHATEVER reason, or who would even threaten to do that, is a sick human being.
YFC I reject you and your teaching out of hand….but I guess you have zero problem is encouraging a lifestyle so called, that damn souls… then again you are a liberal, I know in your book the only sin is judgement and “intolerance”….
Disgusting human beings think kids can be tossed to the curb.
Canisius we have had this similar talk with this person in the past who calls himself YFC. Of course he/she judges since he/she is not a parent but he/she is so freely hating people of faith, he has his own websites that promote anti Christian bigotry. Any person going by the indication that he is a fellow Catholic yet spends a lot of times creating websites that target people of faith should not be taken seriously! He has no right to talk and judge any parents who are coping/going through those tough moments with their teens. How dare he judge others when he has displayed sick behaviors with hate filled websites that target people of faith. Yes we have caught on to this person and his tactics especially since he is a “gay” activist not a fellow Catholic. Because as we all know that fellow Catholics do not condone anti-Christian bigotry!
Fellow Catholics don’t advocate tossing their kids to the curb like garbage, regardless of the circumstances, Dear Abeca. Struggling with tough times or not, this is not an excusable offense.
YFC’s hypocrisy is very apparent.
The notion that growing children do not court adult consequences when they attempt to establish sinful behavior within the confines of another person’s home (namely) their parents is blind. The added panacea of ‘never’ throwing a kid out of the house for ‘any’ reason is similarly ignorant. And it is typical of those with no experience or sense of logic to brand the parent as ‘evil’ in such a scenario. (…just because ‘their’ line hasn’t been crossed.)
What if ‘Johnny’ or ‘Jilly’ is into selling cocaine, or wants to manufacture meth in the kitchen microwave. Is that ‘any’ reason good enough to boot them out of the house? Is it considered uncharitable on the part of the parent to demand amended behavior or expect their darlings to find another place to do business?
Oh, but drug manufacture and selling is against the civil laws, some will say. In this instance, parents would say that loving Johnny and Jilly would be to do all they could to help their children and then, well, out of the house you must go. Parent’s cannot be an accessory to a criminal act in the eyes of the law!
Well, Catholic parents *should* at the very least act the same in keeping the laws of God and His Church. If they don’t, they are an accessory to the crime, or in the case of those announcing their intent to pursue an active homosexual lifestyle, the sin.
That said, many Christians toss their heterosexual children out of the house for leading promiscuous lives in addition to all manner of undesirable behavioral choices.
All homosexuals have differing individual reasons for their being homosexual.
However based upon known scientific findings to date – it is not in the genes, or any other physical disease. It is in their heads and/or due to constant repetitive sinning.
C&H when you misquote the CCC, or when take it out of context – you lie.
CCC: ” 2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex.
It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures.
Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained.
Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.
They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved. “
PETE, please, try to keep it in check. You may not call someone a lier simply because you disagree with them. Besides which, your claim that there are differing individual reasons that people are gay, and that none of them include being “in the genes” has no basis in current thought on the matter. You simply made it up. You can’t point to even a single “individual reason” that people are gay, and you ignore lots and lots of evidence that being gay has genetic and epigenetic origins.
YFC, “current thought on the matter”? Don’t you mean the latest politically correct hypothesis?
Well said Tracey,, YFC is his own ministry of “truth”
No Tracy, that is not what I mean. I actually read the science. Do you? Or do you just read up made up nonsense from people who deep down can’t stand gay people?
Canisius you said that right.
Mac and others…. I’m afraid there are very clearly people within the Catholic Church who do ‘pick on’ homosexuals and if you go to this link you will see that Fr. Hollowell and some of the people in this documentary belong to that camp. Fr. Hollowell’s alleged compassion is disingenuous with his true beliefs. It’s a long read but persevere and you will hopefully understand why this video is fake and potentially dangerous. See also J.Patrick Redmond’s accompanying piece in THe Huffington Post. If you agree after reading – please share this. You have a priest in your community who is giving the rest of you a very bad name. https://jpatrickredmond.wordpress.com/2014/05/15/the-third-way-a-depressing-study-in-catholic-ex-gay-propaganda/
Hm. That does a good job of giving some context.
“Anonymous”: You are wrong. CCD is a wonderful website, and is clearly open to blog commentary of all variety. You are likely distressed because many Orthodox Catholics comment here, and they are upset with many of the failures of those within the Church that do not do what they should in advancing the Faith. One of the key issues in the current Catholic debate is the extent to which homosexuals can be recognized as having licit sexual relationships. The answer, from a Catholic perspective, is “never.” No, there can be no temporizing of this conclusion, notwithstanding what ignorant Catholic school students, who have not been accurately taught the Catholic Faith for decades, find offensive (often aided by their essentially non-Catholic parents). Homosexual persons are of equal dignity before God; but, their sexual lives must be prohibited, if expressed with a same sex partner. Pretty simple, and yet so many clergy give false hope to homosexuals. Instead, the Church should be working with homosexuals to ignore and avoid their impulses to same-sex relationships, to give them a reason to see that their claim to salvation is threatened by their activities. This is the charitable and loving Catholic answer, not the liberal mush which always seems to say, “well, if you look at homosexual sex this way, or that, it might be OK . . .” Avoid these people, and take a fair read of what goes on at CCD, where opposition statements — which you find cruel — are usually made against the demands for acceptance of the unacceptable.
I honestly do not find many orthodox Catholics (small o-as in not heterodox) that comment here. I find that they are somewhat less ignorant of the Faith than those school students that you refer to. They are still very much in a secular, humanistic mindset. There is no debate in the Catholic Church about recognition of homosexual sexual relationships as licit. They are illicit; they are immoral; they are gravely sinful. Always have been. Always will be. People may believe in God, but they have not yet come to know Him or to understand His Will. There is a lot more to faith than just accepting that God exists and that He loves you. Do you love him enough to submit your Will to His.
His Will is Love and Mercy. His Will includes a lot more than just avoiding homosexual sex.
Canisius, as usual you are straight-up with your answers: Straight answers to liberal question, smashing liberal nuance with brutal truth….. I, however, find it hard to believe that very many believe as you and Ann do. The Catholic faith calls us to love. It calls us to be kind to others. It calls us to accept people as they are, not as we want them to be. It calls all of us to invite others to find God in their lives. Even if we, as the church teaches, don’t approve of same gender sex, we cannot expel people because they are gay or lesbians. We are to treat them with the utmost respect. We, you and me, cannot be Christians unless we are sinners. As sinners, who are we to judge others’ sins? We are not a faith of rules and regulations, we are a faith about God’s Love for us and others. If we follow all the rules but do not love, we will not make it through the narrow door, will we?
Bob One, you seem to think that truth is defined by what people believe. People used to ‘believe’ the world was flat. It isn’t. That’s why it is important to cling to the truth even when the whole world follows the tide of disinformation intended to convince us that we are mere animals who cannot change or ever hope to control ourselves. We can. And we should. Helping someone to realize their God-given potential to rise above pure instinct and disordered behaviors is love, Bob One.
“…If we follow all the rules but do not love, we will not make it through the narrow door, will we.”
You need to define love here, Bob One. “Accepting” people as they are by this definition would preclude parents correcting their own children from day one. Self-discipline does not come naturally. But human beings, made in the image and likeness of God, unlike animals, ARE capable of self-control with the aid of grace. But grace uses natural means – that is one must be taught, told, and shown by example that self denial is possible.
So saying, nobody is seeking to reject those with same sex attraction, but rather inviting those with such a cross to carry it manfully in accordance with the laws of God (which, by the way, are there for our benefit and that of society as a whole.) The same could be said for self-proclaimed sex addicts, chronic adulterers, etc. One must judge actions, Bob One, as they are an indicator of the heart. That is actions speak louder than words which is why those promoting sodomy as good must be called out as incorrect.
Bob One what you believe is irrelevant to me as most of you liberal thoughts. And now we delve into the most hallowed liberal word “love” I will not accept sexual perversion in my family, ever, I will not condone it either. ” We, you and me, cannot be Christians unless we are sinners. ” What you and the rest of the liberals demand is acceptance of sin, if you don’t like that fact, you change the meaning of the word. Love? Bob One, how much love would I be showing if I approved of my son or daughter in engaging in a lifestyle that would condemn their soul to Hell. I want you to directly answer that question, no liberal nuance, just answer the question.
What bothers you Bob One, is that I will never accept your pathetic generations morals and that I detest what your generation did to this society and the Church. The faster your generation is resigned to the history books the better…Undo Vatican 2
It’s too bad, really, Canisius. If you are being sincere, you are going to die a very lonely person.
Not necessarily, YFC. There will be plenty of adult children of homosexuals and lesbians who were produced in an unnatural way or mistreated by the LGBT community that will love to keep him company. Many are already bitter because they were deprived of a mother or father deliberately. You, whether you like it or not, are peeking into the Pandora’s box that unnatural behavior and parenting has opened, and it seems you do not like what you see and hear, so welcome to reality. It is only going to get worse.
Just remember, the children of those who rebelled against God, most often rebel against their own rebellious mothers and fathers.
A correction: I meant my first post for Peter, not YFC.
peter thou art wrong. His holy guardian Angel will protect him from your ill thoughts and views.
Canisius is being sincere, Peter. And it’s not how many faces are surrounding you on your deathbed that matter. It’s what will assuredly greet one on the other side.
YFC, unfortunately there is prejudice everywhere. Muslims are killing Christians in Africa, Europeans are suppressing Christianity through arrogance and disdain, China is putting Christians in prison and using them as guinea pigs for experiments, Canada is putting pro-lifers in jail and writing laws against ‘hate speech’ to silence Christians…all over the world Christians are being persecuted and you claim there are people prejudiced against ‘gay’ people? Welcome to the real world. There are going to be people who don’t like us for many reasons. I think the best reason not to be liked is for our faith, don’t you?
As the beautiful wedding song says, “Woman takes her life from man and gives it back again.” Anything else, is just pure fakery — a sham, an imposture. To deliberately deprive a child of his own mother and father in a deliberate act is child abuse — plain and simple. There is no such thing as “marriage” between two men or two women, no matter how many corrupt judges or ungodly politicians say so.
Dear Anne T., referring to the judges you cite as “corrupt”, I would just point out that the judge that issued the ruling today in Pennsylvania was a George Bush appointee, and his nomination to the federal bench was promoted by none other than Rick Santorum who said that this judge would reflect “our values”. So go ahead, and trash talk the judiciary, but 20 different court decisions have come down in favor of marriage equality, most were Republican appointed judges, and none, not a single one, has ruled in your favor.
He is still corrupt, YFC, as far as I am concerned. Democrats are not the only ones corrupting our youth. There are some Republicans families at each others throats over this issue also.
And here in California if I do not know anything about the judge and how he/she rules, I do not vote to keep him/her in. I just leave it blank. Too many people think they have to vote to keep immoral corrupt judges in office, but we do not.
And evidently he lied to Senator Santorum and others. Of course, there is a lot of that going on.
Or you are not telling the truth.
A completion of the first line of the Wedding Son: “Woman takes her life from man and gives it back again, and there is love.” Two women or two men cannot take their life from each other. It just “ain’t” reality.