The Women’s Ordination Conference put up a video on December 31, 2012. By January 16, it had received over 100,000 hits.
To see the video, click here.
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Sacrilege!!!! I turned this disgrace off after 50 seconds!!! I couldn’t stand it anymore!!!
It wasn’t sacreligious; it was just silly. And unfortunately for the proponents of Ordination for women, it trivializes a topic that needs continuing discussion. Perhaps no one will be satisfied with the end result, but slamming the door shut on dialogue does not produce anything good.
Woe poor children of eve! More Eve’s misleading souls. This disobedience is a great evil!
Gotta agree, there. Even in the fifties, many theologians (IN the Vatican, thanks very much) were of the opinion that Scripture is not clear on the subject. (The trick, right now, is wrestling the issue away from contraception, homosexuality and/or abortion — people on all sides insist on lumping them altogether, which is intellectually sloppy, exploitative, and just plain dishonest. And, of course, getting the egotists to give up the delicious indulgence in their favorite misogynist sneer-fest.)
Kell, you and Steve Woodland write puzzling posts. Our Popes, present and past, have declared the matter concluded, and that due obedience to this determination is owed by faithful Catholics. How then is there need for “continuing discussion” (Woodland) or rash judgment of supposed misogynists? (Brigan) It would seem to this reader that these two do not consider the matter closed and imagine that those who think so are much at fault. In addition, Kell claims that people “on all sides” are intellectually sloppy and dishonest for lumping together women’s ordination with other matters involving sexuality. Yet if people “on all sides” do this, there might be a reason for this besides intellectual sloth, and it might be incumbent upon Kell to investigate this possibility.
The reality is that Scripture is clear, perfectly clear. What was not clear was the minds of those theologians. Goes to show you that you really cannot do theology without faith. Faith makes it all clear, no matter how difficult it is to understand.
Steve, it IS sacrilegious! I forced myself to watch the entire video again. They made the Sign of the Cross sacrilegiously and disrespectfully MANY times and they mocked the Pope by having that woman dress as the Pope. God’s Church will NOT be mocked by these scandalous souls!
Needs continuing discussion? What is the point? No women priests. Period. End of discussion.
Amen! Many of us are tired of hearing their broken records for those who remember what a broken record is.
The Gospel has to be communicated to each soul, one at a time. Christianity is said to number about two billion souls on our planet; there are six billion to go.
The Church has not been given authority from God to ordain women.
Amen! again, K.
The god of the modernist is “Dialogue”!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
You’re right, it is silly. And it’s wrong to gossip about it.
The issue of the male-only ordained priesthood is closed. It’s truly not open to discussion…
Your are right R.B. Rodda. That is why I did not bother to even listen to the video. The more press they get, the more they keep gong on.
Anne T., I watched the video and it states “God has called me.” We know that can’t be true.
Actually something else has called her… Does the word exorcism mean anything to these woman? It could be what is actually being called for here.
Now I now why the volume key on my computer doesn’t work today. A blessing in disguise.
Steve, Rome has spoken a long time ago. There will be no discussion. Case closed.
“Give the devil an inch, and it’ll grab a mile”. Besides, it is an oxymoron to use the word “discussion” in a situation where no further resolution is possible.
This article can be a good example of what happens when pride and disobedience has ruled a heart away from God. These women are disobedience and prideful, no good fruit can come from their actions.
”He who follows his own ideas in opposition to the direction of his superiors needs no devil to tempt him, for he is a devil to himself.”
–Saint John Climacus
Very strange, but in keeping with America’s trend to see all things as entertainment: politics, life styles, and now religion. Catchy tune, but meaningless from any Catholic theological perspective. The pressure will continue, of course, to ordain women, as it is seen as “unfair” and “discriminatory” not to. Yet, these are political considerations, and find resonance among those that likely do not go to a Catholic Church, or any church, for that matter. The Pope should be like a sort of Oprah, and priests like the girls in various talk shows: chatty, non-judgmental (except against those with moral standards that enforce them), and completely relativistic on all political issues. People like to watch YouTube. Of course, many, many bishops and priests are among the worshipers of the entertainment god. That is why the mass is so feminized, with such an effort given to show parishioners a good time. And, of course, never, ever, to be judgmental about sinners and sin. That Satan is really something. Didn’t Jesus say something about relying on Him (through His Church): “for apart from me ye can do nothing.” (DRV) John 15:5. Lady Gaga and Gloria Steinem cannot ordain. Enjoy the video, then delete.
Well said, St. Christopher, about Amercians equating truth with entertainment. It’s the appearance, not the substance, that counts. How ironic that the video begins with the girls reading St. Therese, Doctor of the Church. I might have expected a launch into the beauty of the Little Way rather than a rant against patriarchy. It would have been a more honest and internally self-consistent video if the girls had been reading a leading feminist -dissident spokeswoman for female priests.
St. Christopher,
“Enjoy the video” I cannot and will not!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
Stupid women promoting more man hating feminism and an even more neutered Church…. excommunicate them and be done with it.
A perfect example of Catholic school girls who have no idea what Catholicism is. These children are singing that other churches have women ministers so we should too. Typical logic for children who have no idea that the Catholic church is not like all the churches that broke away from the one true church. Educate these poor little girls so they can learn to appreciate what Catholicism is all about.
CCC: ” 1577
Only a baptized man (vir) validly receives sacred ordination.
The Lord Jesus chose men (viri) to form the college of the twelve apostles, and the apostles did the same when they chose collaborators to succeed them in their ministry.
The college of bishops, with whom the priests are united in the priesthood, makes the college of the twelve an ever-present and ever-active reality until Christ’s return.
The Church recognizes herself to be bound by this choice made by the Lord himself. For this reason the ordination of women is not possible. ”
CCC: ” 2089
INCREDULITY is the neglect of revealed truth or the willful refusal to assent to it.
HERESY is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same.
APOSTACY is the total repudiation of the Christian faith.
SCHISM is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him. “
Rightly said, Anne. Not only did our Lord Jesus chose men to form the Twelve, but His father chose to reveal Himself in His Son, not a daughter.
This is all just an attempt to blur the gender lines… and that’s why it is attached to the issues of homosexuality, contraception, and abortion. All of these pervert the rightful place of gender.
Sad that we are upping their views number… but it is good to be aware of what popular heresy looks like. This is another example of the fruits of bad formation!
My favorite line “…excommunication and I’m still glowing.” Uummm would that be all the way to hell? Sad, sad, sad.
“excommunication and I’m still glowing.” Didn’t Blessed Jacinta describe the poor souls in HELL as “glowing embers floating in the flames”!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
Good point, Ken.. That is indeed how they were described.
The more people who flock to such things means the fewer people causing commotion in real Masses, and thus more solemn real liturgical events for actually faithful Catholics.
There is a feminist community in San Diego which calls itself, “Mary Magdalene Apostle Roman Catholic Community”. The web site is quite good and very detailed about their beliefs. They meet in a Lutheran Church, have a woman pastor and are gender and sexual orientation inclusive. Looking at the pictures on the website, the average age appears to be at least 60 y/o, heavily female and probably has a few ex-nuns from the look of it. BTW, I don’t think the video will convince many people especially the young girls similar to those singing and dancing. So, how long they last once the baby boomer generation passes away is debatable.
Madame,
Take it up with Jesus. He had 12 opportunities to ordain a lady and chose a man every time.
Kind of makes you think . . .
Perhaps some of us, peter. The rest of us think it’s a no-brainer!
(certainly not worth thinking about)
Dana is right on. Mankind thinks to much and many times away from God’s ordained orders.
It doesn’t make me rethink what Jesus did . . .
Juergensen perfectly said!
New experience for you, peter? Well, keep at it, dude. Eventually you’ll arrive at Catholicism.
The quality of the music, the lyrics and the dancing says all you need to know about the esthetic, intellectual and spiritual depth of the female ordination movement. These are pathetic creatures who need the prayers of those who retain the Catholic faith.
I can’t recall when I have viewed a more ridiculous video, or one so lacking in depth per its subject matter. Neo-Ordination of women (it’s not ordination, folks, it is definitely not ordination) is laughable by this video’s standards. I think we all ought to recall that calling something something that it is not is false speaking of the something. That’s like calling same-sex marriage marriage. It is not marriage, either. So, any mumbo-jumbo ceremony that purports to be an ordination of a female to the priesthood is definitely NOT an ordination. Calling it one does not make it so. Therefore it follows that these women are not “priests” in the church, but pretenders to that order. They pretend to be “ordained” and pretend to administer “sacraments” after that. The men who are responsible for acting in such practices have put themselves outside their office, if they are duly ordained in any way, and have excommunicated themselves by participating in such “ceremonies”, so, even if they all decide to participate in such practices, the Church may be wounded, but it already has been wounded, and Easter Sunday is a repudiation of the evil which put Jesus in the grave. Jesus, the Head of the Church, rose triumphantly from the grave, and gathered the faithful to Him, who had already died, and took them with Him to his glory. We all can rely on that, which is a prefigurement of the end of our time here on this earth. Our job is to remain faithful to His Word, and the rest will suffer as those who were left behind that Easter morning. Stick to Him, like your life depends on it (and it does). It follows therefore that the wounds we suffer now are actually marks to carry to that Glory. Remain faithful, remain steadfast. We are called to do that, let us do it, and love Our Lord, and our suffering, as that Love will cover it all. Deo gratias!
It’s the Eve Syndrome all over again. They are saying in effect, “We shall be like God”.
Before I converted to Catholicism, I recieved a M.Div. preparing for protestant ordination. I can honestly say that from among all the women I knew in the Episcopal seminary, only two out of–30? 50? Seemed to be good ministers and seemed to have a real calling. Most of the other women saw ordination as a “right” and once they were in, did a terrible to mediocre job. The Episcopal church also, because they wanted to appear inclusive, sometimes dropped some requirements for women in the seminaries. My experience was that the overwhelming majority of women ordained were poor in people skills and teaching spirituality. If God “equips the called” then there were a lot of non-called women. Add this to the messed up “preacher’s kids” in other denominations… and I just wish the “pro-women’s ordination and married clergy” crowd would just GO AWAY! Let them be protestant for ten years and see what a mess that is.
I am a Catholic and a feminist, and I do not support the ordination of women and never did. Recently I spent nearly a year enduring several gut-wrenching conversations per day with a good friend who agreed to move to Minnesota for 3 or 4 years so that her husband could attend seminary to become a Lutheran minister, following in his father’s footsteps. In a latter-day encounter group at this seminary, he met and fell into an intense affair with a married woman who was also studying to become a Lutheran minister. She had broken up two marriages with children to marry her first two husbands. My friend’s marriage was nearly destroyed, but in the end the homewrecker did not win my friend’s husband away. I don’t see how having women in our Catholic seminaries could avoid such occurrences. I don’t agree that men are our superiors, but I do believe that the needs of the Catholic Church, including the laity, are best served if men and women live separately and serve the Lord through lives of chastity. The complications of romance and marriage are overwhelming at times for the most loving among us; why inflict those problems on our seminarians, clergy and religious and those inevitable complications on the Church and laity? Chaos is best avoided if the needs of the Church are served as they are now.
Marryanne ~ Nice to meet another Catholic feminist. I’m sorry to hear about your friend’s troubles. It sounds like her husband is a jerk. As for Ms. Homewrecker, I would think that her history would make her unsuitable for minisitry in any religion that does ordain women. As far as our own Church is concerned, I think we ought to consider opening more non-ordained roles to women and maybe the deaconship. . Also – if we ever do get married priests, I expect it will take a very special kind of woman. Very much like a military spouse.
As much as Maryanne will disagree, there is no such thing as a Catholic feminist; it is a contradiction in terms. Believe me C&H, I was raised and abused by feminists. There is nothing feminine or Catholic in that term.
“Feminism is a collection of movements and ideologies aimed at defining, establishing, and defending equal political, economic, and social rights for women. This includes seeking to establish equal opportunities for women in education and employment.”
I beg to differ with you, Canisius. I wish to retain the right to define myself, whether or not you think I am free to do so. I am most definitely a Catholic and nothing else, and I am definitely a feminist. I am also a reasonably intelligent human being and am free to think through all the ramifications of true equality for all, and free to decide for myself what I think is appropriate in terms of application of the principles of equality for both genders, including men, of course. I am sorry you were so abused by the women in your family, as it has left a definite scar on you which I can feel when I read your comments. I too was severely abused by my parents, and since both were profoundly abusive parents and grandparents, one to the point of murder, I have been equally scarred by both genders and do not hold a special grudge against men. I do see, however, that as an historical fact, one true general statement is that women have often been abused by men, and sometimes vice versa. I do not see that that sad history should be a defining factor in how we who are alive today should treat one another, and an excellent place to begin, in our mission to make the world a better place than we found it for our having been born into it, is to treat all human beings with dignity and equality, even when they quite obviously don’t necessarily deserve it, going by old standards of how to treat people. I believe this is well within the definitions of both Catholicism and feminism. I definitely feel that healing from abusive childhoods is our own personal responsibility, so as to be happier ourselves and because it is our responsibility to be sure we treat others properly. Failing to seek help to recover from an abusive childhood is not a certain guarantee that we will grow up to resent, criticize, and abuse people ourselves, but it increases the likelihood a great deal. I am glad that I have Catholicism to help heal me, as well as having had the assistance of a loving husband, wonderful friends, and helping professionals. I choose dignity, equality, and work to treat others with respect in order to help wash the world of the lingering effects of the values that allowed my parents to think they owned me and that it was okay to use and abuse me in ways that would make Hollywood movies seem tame. We are responsible for the world we leave behind when we die, and I choose to do that as a Catholic and as a pro-life feminist.
I know you disagree with me Maryanne, but I stand by my words.. I will never heal as I found strength in my anger… I oppose feminism as I believe it to be a destructive force in society… Though in the end I feel that women are the ones that lose. Small example, I read a story where a young woman was arriving home and needed help bringing in the packages from the store. Her brother was home with a number of his friends, none of them offered to help… One the guys made this comment: “These women fought for their equal rights, now they can deal with the consequences.” I could not agree more… Feminism is anti-man to the core; it has laid waste to the family…
Canisius, my abuser was a traditional catholic woman. She learned that she could get away with anything because she would always get forgiveness.
She wasn’t very Catholic was she K? Nothing any woman posts here is ever going to change my perception of feminism or what it has done to society.
Canisius, I agree with you completely that women are the ones who have lost because of feminism. Sometimes feminism is self-abuse.
Save your breath, Can. Once a person, whether male or female, defines themselves as something other than a mere Catholic, be prepared to hear complicated histories, convoluted issues going back to previous injuries and resentments: gay Catholics w/male orientation, feministic Catholics but not necessarily women, pro-choice Catholics, and so on and so forth. Why let words define who you are? It is in following Jesus that we find out who we really are. It is in forgetting ourselves that we find ourselves. It is in forgiving that we’re forgiven. I’m nobody special but Jesus thought enough of me to call me by name… I would truly love for people to see Him when they saw me, but I keep remembering ‘myself’, alas. I keep getting in the way. I don’t want some ‘feminist’ self, some ‘sexual’ self, some ‘other’ self to overshadow the light that could shine through me, lighting the world around me.
How I wish I could shine so brightly that those I love and those I meet could warm themselves at the fire of love burning in my heart. Well, I must just live in hope!
Femi-nazism has lead to complete destruction of the family… did you cut and paste that pathetic explanation from wiki-pedia Mackz??? I expect your snarky come back at some point….
Death, taxes and Mackz’s snarky remarks are assured.
Canisius, I’m sorry you had a horrible childhood, but this doesn’t mean that people like Maryanne should shy away from being feminists — it’s not a four-letter word, nor is it a sin. As the New Testament tells us, “you are no longer Jew or Gentile, man or woman, you are all one in Christ.” Or in similar words.
Yes, when I’m trying to understand a word, I usually DO go to a dictionary, where you find things such as (Merriam Webster online):
Definition of FEMINISM
1: the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes.
2: organized activity on behalf of women’s rights and interests.
NONE of this seem weird to me. Even the Rite of Marriage says about the new husband: “May he recognize that she is his equal…”
Sure, we have different ROLES (e.g., men are not mothers; woman are not priests), but God made us all in His image:
(Genesis 1:27) “God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.”
Rather than being stuck in your hatred for women, get a spiritual director, go for counseling, pray, ask the Blessed Mother for help. This poison in your soul is not health.
Please Mackz, don’t do what liberals always do, thinking that if you hate feminists you must hate women. I don’t. Feminists, yes, I do hate them. What you call poison I call strength. They are my enemies and always will be… Maryanne can label herself anything she wants but she is fooling herself if she and you for that matter think feminism and Catholicism are compatible… Feminism is inherently evil.
And what does Jesus Christ say to do to one’s enemies?
Anon, to forgive them right? I cannot give what was never asked for… btw if you think you can forgive some one who tried to disfigure you when you were 14, write a pamphlet, tell me how and send it to me… for now I will find strength in not forgiving.
No, He says to love them. A big challenge and to be honest, it is a grace from God and it doesn’t come all at once. But you don’t have to hate people that you don’t even know because a crazy person injured you. Make no mistake, Canisius, that person did not try to disfigure you because she was a lesbian, or a feminist or even a woman. She tried to disfigure you because she was a mentally ill, narcissistic, savage, cruel person.
Ahh wrong Anon. That monster’s lesbianism was part and parcel of her actions. I hate feminists because of what they have done not only to me but to society as a whole…
Canisius, I accept your assessment. The thing I hate the most is how the mean, abusive people that we meet in life have such a huge impact. We meet nice normal people all the time and hardly give them a second thought. The abusive alter our minds and hearts and sometimes we take on their characteristics. The suffering they cause is lifelong. Eventually, though, you might get to a place where it doesn’t bother you as much. A lot of Christianity’s task is to learn how to love the unlovable.
Elaine,
Thank you for your personal testimony. It is always good to hear from someone who “has been there and done that”!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
There are really only two words to say on this subject: Ordinatio sacerdotalis.
Cute! Obviously done by some parochial high school girls. As a married permanent deacon, I might like to be a priest also — except canon law says no. I can accept that. Get over it ladies!
Hi Deacon Vince — Would you have any problem welcoming women deacons into the ministrey? – Cheers
C&H, I know I am butting into your conversation. Please forgive me. Just want to make sure you know that the way one becomes a deacon in the Catholic Church is by the Sacrament of Holy Orders. Holy Orders is not a sacrament that women can receive.
K ~ I know that JP2 closed off discussion of ordaining women as priests because the Church doesn’t have the authority from God to do so. I don’t think he said the same about Deacons. Women deacons would do a lot to help with the priest shortage. Just so you know, God is not calling me to be a deacon or a priest!
The writings do address the ministerial priesthood. However, only baptised males are allowed to receive Holy Orders-the first degree of which is the diaconate. One difference though is that permanant deacons can be married.
If you are female and you feel a call to become a Catholic priest, you can be 100% sure that it is not from God. This is an easy discernment for most of us. However, Satan knows our weakness. You are called to serve God. You are called to give you whole self to God. You are called to serve others, but Not. As. A. Priest. You must try to discern what is the real call from God and what is your imagination or a demonic interference.
Again, why does Cal Catholic even include garbage like this on their website? All it does it bring attention to the non-Catholic pretending the be Catholic clergy. It’s not worthy of being included on this website.
Cal Catholic posts this stuff because it attracts the same people here each day to whine and moan. That in itself is a real problem…
Rodda, upon prayer and meditation, it has dawned on me that your consistent clamor having to do with the nature of the opinions expressed on this site constitute an important point. The point I think you are making, although very simply, addresses something that may be almost missing from all the advice and persuassive efforts. This would be prayer and meditation on the works of God. For example, I’ve been socking it to the bishops more and more. Well, these are the bishops we have today, and there is no surety that tomorrow’s bishops will be any better at all. So, I’m trying to compare the situation with, say, that of friends and acquaintances, or the boss of the group one works in, or the coach of the team one plays on or roots for. You want these people to excel and not to fail. So, in this regard I see now why you are complaining about all the complaining. The only way to improve the bishops is to pray for them … and yes of course other means can be used to make one’s point, such as directing one’s money elsewhere; however, whatever one does, one should prayer for the bishops and especially one’s own bishop(s). Whether they are apostate, schismatic, heretic, incompetent, whatever the situation, there is no real solution that can come about without praying for them. Certainly prayer has to include the whole “team” or diocese or all the laity and clergy etc. The question that will come up is the nature of the prayer. I was just checking Catholic prayer sites and found quite a few. I picked one, opened it up and this particular site presents a large number of prayers. I lit into the long list of litanies and went through some of them. This provided me mercifully with a great deal of spiritual ammo, and these prayers, as with other categories of prayers, are chock full of … I don’t know what to call what is loaded into these prayers, but Saints over the millenia have formulated these for our good and the good of all the Church. Maybe this insight engages your complaint; I find suddenly a kind of renewal. I think, and expect to gain understanding further, that one can read the problems and the various perspectives of the problems and include them in the spiritually rich treasure house of prayer that the Church freely provides anyone who seeks it out. So, of course, next time you’re in the Christ Cathedral, maybe it would be good to include it in your prayering. Blessed Teresa of Calcutta was always shown working her Rosary beads; obvious to me that she was continually in a state of prayer. Maybe each one of those little beads is like a step on one’s ladder to Heaven.
Praise be to God.
You have reminded me that I do need to pray my Rosary more, less talk, more action and prayer.
Women Priests! I already have a real problem with Altar girls, women readers, women teaching grown men. All of this is wrong.
The Church has become way too feminized.
Women have the very important work of building families, and teaching children. God created us to do this, and there are great rewards for doing so, but women get caught up in the opinions of the secular culture and are made to feel that motherhood is not much of an achievement.
This all ties into the culture of death which wants to break up the family. It is very evil.
Candace I agree
Candace, I once thought of being a lector since I had done it one time when a priest asked me to do so and was good at it, so I went to the classes. What turned me off was when the daughter of the woman who was teaching the class called her and asked when she was coming home to make dinner because she was hungry. I never went back since I thought it is not our children’s duty to do what is OUR job. Besides, I prefer a man’s voice at the ambo; it sounds more authoritative.
I know there have been some definite statements concerning women priests, both from the Vatican as well as in the catechism. However, I believe what is needed is an ex cathedra statement by the Pope that will not just clarify the issue (I believe it is already clarified), but will put outside the Church, if necessary by excommunication, those who clamour for women priests.
This groups spiritual advisor is a former Maryknoll priest who was laicisized for that very thing.
What I don’t understand is why all the people calling the folks in this video “heretics” aren’t as loud and as vehement in their condemnation as heretics anyone who claims that altar girls are somehow illegitimate and should be disallowed. The anti-altar girl people are out of communion with the Magisterium and are heretics. So, where’s your outrage about their behavior?
kell just give it up already… your comments are not justifiable!
I’ll tell you why. A very good priest once told me that it was not a sin to disagree with altar girls… OK so your comparison is …well I’d rather be nice and not say, but you are definitely not right!
If you are going to have an outrage, then this would be the right topic to have it with… Christ’s church does not ordain woman priests, it is something we all should understand why and how our Lord has made up His church. We can’t go against our Lord… Dogma is Dogma!
Well let’s see, Kell: in the respondents up and to the time I type this, only Candace (6:16 p.m.) here mentions altar girls at all, and that she has a “real problem” with them because in her thinking the Church has become too feminized. She is not alone in that estimation, but that is beside the point. Now you want me to rise up in condemnation of her, with a loud vehement voice? Notice she never said they were “illegitimate,” only, if I might put words in her mouth, “imprudent.” When I compare her words with those on the video, I see little resemblance both in the degree and kind of disputation.
I think for it to be heresy it needs to be against one of the articles of Faith in the Creed. The word get used a little loosely here.
It is one of the articles of Faith, as Servant of God John Paul II clearly stated, that THE CHURCH HAS NO AUTHORITY TO ORDAIN WOMEN. What part of that does anyone not understand?
In looking at the excommunication and laicization of the priest that advises this group, he is not accused of heresy. Error and teaching against the Church’s teaching and disobedience, but heresy is not mentioned.
“Women” is the part I don’t understand, Anne T.
Skai, they can indeed be QUITE a mystery…
Well, Ska, you know! “Women are from Venus and Men Are from Mars”. Have a good laugh on that one.
Some day I am actually going to read that book.
This video is simply proof perfect of the ignorance of women’s ordination in the Catholic Church.
There is NO “continuing discussion” on anything within the “CATECHISM of the CATHOLIC CHURCH, Second Edition”.
Any other opinions are heresy or schism. This is why heretics and schismatics do not want us to read the CCC.
“ The Catechism of the Catholic Church, which I approved … and the publication of which I today order by virtue of my Apostolic Authority, is a statement of the Church’s faith and of catholic doctrine, attested to or illumined by Sacred Scripture, the Apostolic Tradition and the Church’s Magisterium. I declare it to be a sure norm for teaching the faith and thus a valid and legitimate instrument for ecclesial communion. “ – Pope John Paul II. (CCC pg 5)
” ….the Catechism has raised throughout the world, even among non-Christians, and confirms its purpose of being presented as a full, complete exposition of Catholic doctrine, enabling everyone to know what the Church professes, celebrates, lives, and prays in her daily life.” – Pope John Paul II (CCC pg xiv)
““Through the harmonious and complementary efforts of all the ranks of the People of God, may this Catechism be known and shared by everyone, so that the unity in faith whose supreme model and origin is found in the Unity of the Trinity may be strengthened and extended to the ends of the earth.” – Pope John Paul II (CCC pg xv)
Pope Benedict has asked each of us to study the CCC in Porta Fidei (Year of Faith).
“It is in this sense that that the Year of Faith will have to see a concerted effort to rediscover and study the fundamental content of the faith that receives its systematic and organic synthesis in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
Here, in fact, we see the wealth of teaching that the Church has received, safeguarded and proposed in her two thousand years of history.
From Sacred Scripture to the Fathers of the Church, from theological masters to the saints across the centuries, the Catechism provides a permanent record of the many ways in which the Church has meditated on the faith and made progress in doctrine so as to offer certitude to believers in their lives of faith. ” – Pope Benedict (Porta Fidei)
CCC: ” 2089
INCREDULITY is the neglect of revealed truth or the willful refusal to assent to it.
HERESY is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same. …..
SCHISM is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him. ”
__________________
The CCC covers Church teaching on – no women priests and why; celebacy for Priests and why; cremation and why; palative care and why; homosexual acts and why; pornography and why; fornication and why; artificial semination and why; commutative justice ‘without which no other form of justice is possible’ and why; subsidiarity and why; – – – – – and so very much more.
On the net go to: “What Catholics REALLY Believe SOURCE”.
The problem with your opinion that no discussion is allowed on the CCC, PETE, is that much of it is nebulous. There are enough bright and educated people who can see that some of the explanations simply are not written very well and can be interpreted in a variety of ways. Not that this makes the CCC a poor job of catechesis, no, but what it does is refer the reader to authentic Church authority, namely the episcopacy. There is an obvious problem with this as well, namely bishops with little faith, bishops who are not too bright, bishops who lead vile lives of gross sin, bishops who live slothful lives and do not connect well with God and let their flocks run amok. There is more authority in Jesus than in the CCC, PETE. This claim is open for discussion, even though it has been long settled by the Church. Discussion can have many objectives, one of which is to understand the truth. Simply reading a true statement does not magically impart the truth to someone necessarily, although it can. Bishops have the responsibility to make sure that the Gospel is taught … how many of them are living up to this responsibility? So, discussion and teaching and inquiring and seeking the truth may be satisfied by reading the CCC Second Edition, but as I’ve pointed out, much of the text is rhetoric at best and not thoroughly instructive. However, the various notes, footnotes, and references tend to direct the reader to Scripture either directly or through one of the Doctors of the Church. I find that the Doctors of the Church are far far more capable of expressing and teaching the truths of Christ than the bureaucrats who penned the CCC.
“To consider the ministerial priesthood as a human right would be to misjudge its nature completely: baptism does not confer any personal title to public ministry in the Church…Some women feel that they have a vocation to the priesthood. Such an attraction, however noble and understandable, still does not suffice for a genuine vocation…Since the priesthood is a particular ministry of which the Church has received the charge and the control, authentication by the Church is indispensable here and is a constitutive part of the vocation…Women who express a desire for the ministerial priesthood are doubtlesss motivated by the desire to serve Christ and the Church. And it is not surprising that, at a time when they are becoming more aware of the discriminations to which they have been subject, they should desire the ministerial priesthood itself. But it must not be forgotten that the priesthood does not form part of the rights of the individual, but stems from the economy of the mystery of Christ and the Church. The priestly office cannot become the goal of social advancement; no merely human progress of society or if the individual can of itself give access to it; it is of another order…It therefore remains for us to meditate more deeply on the nature of the real equality of the baptized which is one of the greatest affirmations of Christianity; equality is in no way identity, for the Church is a differentiated body, in which each individual has his or her role. The roles are distinct, and must not be confused; they do not favour the superiority of some vis-a-vis the others, nor do they provide an excuse for jealousy; the only better gift, which can and must be desired, is love. The greatest in the Kingsom of Heaven are not the ministers but the saints.” Inter Insigniores CDF 1977
This video was so poorly produced and had such outrageous arguments — ignoring St. Paul, for example — that I thought that it was a crude satire by a conservative Catholic organization mocking the pro-WO movement. I guess it is true what is said by a well-known Catholic internet commentator:
“Sin makes you stupid.”
Fr Michael – conservatives would not mock God, or our Catholic Church.
Oh, Stan, sure they would — if the Church dared to do something that ruffled their feathers.
Like allowing altar girls.
Or permitting Communion in the hand.
Or… well… you get the idea.
We do not mock, Mackz we will correct though
Stan, I didn’t say it was conservatives mocking God. I meant to say that I thought it was produced by conservatives who were mocking the WO movement who mock God. Difficult to believe sentient human beings would produce such schlock and think it would effectively promote their point of view.
God is great — letting His enemies be hoisted on their own petard.
I like your last line, Fr. Michael. It is also a good line against radical Islam.
One thing that got me on this video was the colored square on each woman’s alb, right near the bottom, in the middle.
I’ve never seen such a thing on an alb before.
But then, I’ve never seen such a VIDEO before, either…
Maryanne Leonard says:
January 20, 2013 at 2:25 pm
“I wish to retain the right to define myself, whether or not you think I am free to do so. I am most definitely a Catholic and nothing else, and I am definitely a feminist. I am also a reasonably intelligent human being and am free to think through all the ramifications of true equality for all, and free to decide for myself what I think is appropriate in terms of application of the principles of equality for both , including men, of course.”
IRONIC this. That Maryanne wishes to retain the right to define herself, incuding as Catholic and feminist. Yet those who wish to define themselves as gay and catholic are forbidden by her from doing so. Many in this forum hold that there is no such thing as a gay identity, that to identify as gay is harmful. Why is Maryanne free to identify herself as she wishes, and yet others are not so free? And why is it that while she can claim that freedom, she can also claim to be Catholic, yet when others so claim, she casts doubt upon that claim?
YFC just as feminism is incompatible with Catholicism so is homosexuality….