Head of new Anglican Ordinariate in U.S. provides details on “how to join”

(Editor’s Note: The following are excerpts from a Jan. 31 pastoral letter from Fr. Jeffrey Steenson, Ordinary of the Personal Ordinariate of the Chair of St. Peter. A link to the full text of the letter is provided below.)

How To Join the Ordinariate

There have been many questions regarding how one joins the Ordinariate. Our founding document, Anglicanorum Coetibus gives us direction regarding membership in the Ordinariate.

AC IX. Both the lay faithful as well as members of Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life, originally part of the Anglican Communion, who wish to enter the Personal Ordinariate, must manifest this desire in writing.

As the document indicates, no one is automatically a member of the Ordinariate. Rather, it is required that anyone who wants to belong to the Ordinariate needs to submit a petition in writing for membership. All membership request letters need to be sent via the US mail so that the Ordinariate has a hard copy record with both names and signatures. We also request that any other documents or lists sent to us electronically need to be in PDF format and sent as attachments. A sample membership letter can be found on our website, as well as the community profile questionnaire and a clergy information form… 

Currently our focus and priority is on the identification and creation of stable Ordinariate communities. However, we are also aware that there are individuals or single families who will want to join the Ordinariate. Assigning individuals to the various local communities is going to take time; we first have to see where our communities are going to be located and get them established before we can begin connecting more isolated individuals/families to our existing communities. This means that our individuals are going to need to be patient with us as these communities are created. We do not want anyone feeling neglected, however with limited time and resources our priority must be getting our communities established and our clergy ordained before we can turn our attention to our individual members. Nevertheless, we are maintaining a database of everyone who desires to join the Ordinariate to keep track of the names and locations of our members so that we will eventually be able to connect individuals with communities in their geographic area.

Particular Situations

If you are an individual or single family who currently has your letter with an Episcopalian or Anglican Church, we need you to send us a letter stating your intent to join signed by you/and your family (please have your name(s) printed as well so we can legibly read your names). If there is an Ordinariate community within a reasonable distance from you, we may suggest that you join them to do your preparation to come into the Church. If not, we will ask you to attend your local Latin Catholic Church and come into the Church through their RCIA program. Upon accepting your request, we will try to assign you to the care of the closest Ordinariate community, though this may take some time for us to get this organized.

If you are in a local parish RCIA program, after you have joined the Church send us a letter declaring your status as a member of the Catholic Church, and you can be formally enrolled as a member in the Ordinariate. It is likely that some of our individual members will not be in close proximity to an established Ordinariate community. Therefore we would ask that you worship in your local Latin Catholic parish, but maintain a tie with the Ordinariate parish that is closest to you.

If you are an individual or family that has already joined the Catholic Church but you are of an Anglican background, please send us a letter stating your intent to join signed by you/and your family (please have your name(s) printed as well so we can legibly read your names). We will then send you a letter of acceptance, and assign you to the care of the closest Ordinariate community within a reasonable distance as soon as we are able. If the community is of such a distance that it is not practical to worship with them, we ask that you worship as you can with the community, but that you continue to use your local parish as your primary place of worship.

We know that it is likely that there will be individuals assigned to the care of groups that could be more than a hundred miles away. We suggest that communities keep in touch by online communication such as parish bulletins, being notified of community events, meeting in various places and having morning/evening prayer, etc. As communities develop, we hope that we will be able to have communities in closer proximity to our members. After we are more organized, we may be able to find ways for members who are geographically close to each other to be in touch. Until we have more numerous formal groups, communities and parishes, this is our best solution for meeting the needs individual members…

If you are an Anglican parish that is interested in corporately joining the Ordinariate and you have not already done so, your rector needs to contact Fr. Scott Hurd to begin the process by identifying your parish and filling out a community profile questionnaire. If you are an Anglican community or group (but not a formal parish) who is considering joining the Ordinariate, and you have not done so already, your members need to individually or as nuclear families submit letters to us regarding your personal intention to join the Ordinariate. The leader of your group (or a designated member if there is no formal leader) needs to contact Fr. Scott Hurd to identify your group and request a community profile questionnaire for your community to complete. If your leader is an Anglican cleric, then he needs to contact Fr. Scott Hurd and get specific information on how to proceed.

If you are a Catholic group of former Anglicans, each person or nuclear family must submit a letter stating your intent to join signed by you/and your family (please have your name(s) printed as well so we can legibly read your names). In addition, your leader needs to send a letter to Fr. Scott Hurd identifying how many members you have in your group that are submitting their names for membership. Also, please let us know if you have a particular Catholic priest who is assisting your or guiding you as a group, and/or if you have a diocesan contact person, along with all his or her contact information.

If you have a group of mixed Latin Catholics and Anglicans, your members also need to send the Ordinariate individual or family letters stating their desire to become a member. Your leader must also fill out a community profile questionnaire, and contact Fr. Scott Hurd regarding how to proceed, if the group or community has not already done so.

If you are a member of a Pastoral Provision parish or community, each person or nuclear family must submit a letter to the Ordinariate stating your intent to join signed by you/and your family (please have your name(s) printed as well so we can legibly read your names). Membership in the Ordinariate is separate from membership in your parish. Please be aware that decisions about the status of pastoral provision parishes will be made by the local diocesan bishop, in consultation with Fr. Steenson and your community’s leadership.

Finally, if you are a Catholic priest of Anglican background who is currently incardinated and functioning in a Latin diocese, we would like to know who you are, and if you are interested in assisting or having some form of association with the Ordinariate. At this point we are only able to compile a list of names and contact information. However, if groups are forming in your area with no clerical shepherd, and if your local bishop consents, we may ask for your assistance.

To read the pastoral letter in its entirety, Click Here.


Posted Monday, February 06, 2012 8:11 AM By Larry
And if you are a lifelong Latin Rite Catholic, with no background in the Anglican Church and therefore no standing to join the Ordinariate, are you nevertheless allowed to attend mass in an Ordinariate parish, confess sins there, etc?

Posted Monday, February 06, 2012 8:59 AM By Fr. Richard Perozich
Yes, Larry

Posted Monday, February 06, 2012 9:43 AM By Bud 
Like the Eastern Catholic Churches, an Ordinariate Anglican Church would have all of the valid sacraments including their Mass Rites. I love attending Byzantine Catholic Rites rather than many of the “feminized” versions of the “Liturgy Parish directors”! When they have to shove a grand piano into the sanctuary and have a bunch of English Bell Ringers installed clanging away in the Mass, they reduce the purpose to entertainment!

Posted Monday, February 06, 2012 12:10 PM By Maryanne Leonard
Bud, I would reconsider using the word “feminized” when you mean diluted, reduced, less effective, less potent, less admired, etc. It is offensive to those of us who are grateful and happy that God chose to make us female, and who rejoice in our role in the world and in our contributions to society. It further implies that all things feminine are lesser than those things masculine, and I believe we all know that is not true, even if some parts of society would like us to think otherwise. Would you use the word “blackened” as a pejorative?

Posted Monday, February 06, 2012 12:50 PM By MacDonald
Curious to use the term “feminized” as an insult, when we speak of Holy MOTHER Church. Don’t let your mother hear you say this…

Posted Monday, February 06, 2012 2:12 PM By Catherine
Oh Maryanne, give Bud a little break. Are you saying that the women (“who do dilute and reduce, and make the Liturgy less effective, less potent and less admired”) do not use their femininity or feminine qualities to achieve what Bud is describing. You can defend women but in this case I agree with Bud. You may not see it but in this case you are truly micro-managing political correctness to the gills. Just last night a friend called me about a youth group that was called up to dance on the altar and down the aisle swinging their hips to hip hop music in skin tight hip hugging attire. The women who constantly surround the pastor organized this debasing of the Liturgy. They ARE absolutely using feminizing approaches to do this. Everyone smiled during this sacrilegious hip shaking feminine performance. Sadly, I was told that the main celebrant gleefully smiled during the whole girls in tight pants hip shaking show. What Bud wrote is completely *accurate* and you’re now asking him to frost over a very appropriate term.. Maryanne, It is not an insult to women to admit that there was an Eve who once used her feminine wiles to tempt Adam. It is the truth. Also, It is not an insult for women to admit that are some women who simply use their femininity to achieve the wrong goal. Why do you think that many in the Church are crying out for a more masculine and not a feminized driven clergy. It is not insulting to say something such as, “Wow, that priest just delivered the strongest homily with such strong masculine conviction.” Maryanne, That’s not an insult. It’s a great compliment and something that is appealing and can be used for goodness and holiness. Well, the same goes for the feminine qualities. We should not politically correct the actual meaning of the word, “feminized”. Feminine is as feminine does.

Posted Monday, February 06, 2012 5:32 PM By Maryanne Leonard
Catherine, just because some females act in embarrassing manners in order to compete with other females for attention doesn’t mean either gender should use the term “feminized” to mean something negative. Of course the same goes for the male gender: just because some males act in reprehensible manners doesn’t mean we should allow women to speak of men in general in negative terms, nor use a term meant to describe them to denigrate something else. It’s a simple matter of respect for one another, Catherine. I feel it is important to help individuals of either gender to overcome the kind of unwarranted shaming that dismissive words of this sort bring to an individual’s mind. We all need to become a lot more considerate of one another and learn to appreciate, honor, respect and celebrate the differences with which we are imbued by none less than God Himself rather than denigrate anyone or anything by negative use of a word referring to gender. That’s shaming, and that’s not godly in any way. We need to lift up our eyes to the Lord and thank Him for our very existence, including the details thereof, and do right by Him and by one another. He taught us this most important lesson: Love one another. Why make it hard for women to love men by winking when men put us down? Why make it hard for men to love women by laughing or nodding when they put us down? Let’s stop all that and be loving, accepting, encouraging souls. I can’t be swayed from that philosophy of life, Catherine, but thanks for the conversational engagement all the same. It’s always interesting to read what you post.

Posted Tuesday, February 07, 2012 8:02 AM By Catherine
Maryanne, Thanks for your very sweet response. Do you think that it is also negative when a man purchases a home, (and there is pink flowered wallpaper all throughout the house) and he states that he loves the bones of the house but the floral paper in each room is too feminine or feminized for his personal taste. Do you consider this shaming, dismissive and insulting to women or merely a factual and descriptive word. If a man reads an ad in the newspaper and drives to purchase a sofa for sale and he discovers that the sofa is a floral pattern, is it degrading to women if the man simply says, “Oh, I thought it was a solid color. This is too feminine a pattern for me.” On the flip side, if a woman goes to her hairdresser for a shot haircut and the stylist removes far too much hair, is it degrading to men if the woman says, “Oh my goodness, this haircut is a little too masculine for me.” That is not a degrading comment. What if the woman goes home and her husband says, “Yes, honey I agree with you, that haircut is a little too masculine.” Is that husband degrading or devaluing men?” Maryanne, I thank you for your response. I love it that you want everyone to value the individuality of the genders, but we should not *hamstring* word usage to such a degree because of our own personal experiences or the personal experiences of others. Shouldn’t word usage have it’s own merit with each new conversation? Does everything have to be so politically correct to a fault? It would be intellectual dishonesty to say that the two examples I cited, or Bud’s example of a feminized Liturgy is meant to degrade women or men. “Feminized” is a factual word that precisely describes a factual happening. Maryanne, I realize and accept the fact that you choose to refer to yourself a feminist. Here is a quote from John Adams, “Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”

Posted Tuesday, February 07, 2012 9:04 AM By Abeca Christian
Yes it’s strange that someone would say that “feminized” versions?? First time I have ever heard that. hmmmm you always learn something new here, how people view things, interesting. Sorry folks but it’s kinda silly terms, would another word have been better used to describe the other Liturgy. Maybe Bud can clarify, I’m sure we are misunderstanding him?

Posted Tuesday, February 07, 2012 10:28 AM By Canisius
Maryanne it was has been the femizing of the liturgy that has driven droves of men away from the Church.

Posted Tuesday, February 07, 2012 11:15 AM By Catherine
Abeca Christian, Please use your search engine and type in the words “Feminist” or “Feminized Liturgy” and you will see that it is not a new, strange or novel, word used to describe what has happened to the Liturgy. See what the Traditional websites say about “feminizing the Liturgy” Even Protestant denominations have used this term. That is why many of those same Protestants have left to become Catholic. Haven’t you noticed? They did not want lesbian women priests or lesbian women bishops or homosexual bishops for that matter. Years ago, Father Joseph Fessio ,SJ made a wonderful tape describing just what Bud is talking about. The debasing of the Mass. Have you heard of the book. “Ungodly Rage” by Donna Steichen? This book is an examination of the feminist movement within the Roman Catholic Church. One example being: The same women who want women’s ordination are often in charge of our Liturgical programs. The Church has women that are canon lawyers, chancellors and judges, so there is no discrimination. Many want more and are not completely faithful to the Magisterial teachings and there are many who are on a personal mission to change the Church. These women are often in charge of catechetical and Liturgical programs. Hence, the feminization of the Liturgy. I am quite sure Abeca, that you do not support the goal of these women, nevertheless some continue to make their destructive marks that debase the intended sacredness of the Liturgy. The women who want women priests have turned this into a gender war. One teacher at a local Catholic School had a religion bee contest between the boys and the girls. The boys won fair and when it came time to pass out awards the teacher told the boys in the class, “Look! You boys have hogged the priesthood so I’m giving the best prizes to the girls. Now Abeca, that last example is not about the Liturgy but it wreaks of the pervasive attitude within many Chanceries, once again, hence the feminization of the Liturgy.

Posted Tuesday, February 07, 2012 11:49 AM By Maryanne Leonard
Catherine, if you reread your post, you will note that the examples you chose do not in any way denigrate women or men by saying the flowery pattern is too feminine for a man, or the short haircut feels too masculine. Those refer to valid expressions of patterns of design known to be favored by women or typical haircuts in style for men during our age, and no one’s feelings are hurt. No egos are wounded, no harm is done to society by people who feel “less than” and thus ask much less of themselves than God would allow if this person’s expectations of himself/herself had not been squashed by society. If I do not speak up for the woman who “gets the message” that she is “less than” when she reads this sort of bludgeoning remark equating feminization with reduction in value, will you? Will Bud? Well, I hope so, of course, but I’m not counting on it. The men and women who came before me left a legacy that both enhanced my life and limited it; I feel duty bound to help make the world a little better place for those who follow me for my having been here. I feel I can do that by pointing out words and thoughts we use that harm one another. Pretty simple, and impossible to decry successfully.

Posted Tuesday, February 07, 2012 12:50 PM By Canisius
What you want Maryanne is thought control, any perceived slight must be crushed and of course anything that smacks of masculinity must most definitely be destroyed. This has caused more destruction in the Church by recreating the liturgy in your feminist image. This is one of the reasons the Church in states and most of the western world is dying. One can only hope in its ruins the revival will be lead by real men.

Posted Tuesday, February 07, 2012 12:59 PM By Catherine
Maryanne and Abeca, Google up “Statement on Feminism, Language, and Liturgy, EWTN library. “Women For Faith and Family, Forum of Major Superiors, Consortium Perfectae, April 18, 1989, “We are convinced that these and other attempts at “feminization” of the worship of the Church is deliberately intended to subvert the ordained priesthood to blur the distinction between the common priesthood of the laity grounded in baptism and the *ordained priesthood*. Also Google, Adoro Te Devote, St. Joseph and the Liturgy. “The Feminization of the Holy Mass is a serious problem in the Modern Church.” Now Google, *Catholic Pages Feminism* and read the lengthy recommended list of books listed that address this problem. Maryanne and Abeca. You would not consider Mother Angelica unjust or EWTN silly would you? The EWTN library archives have many articles on this. I must confess that I am surprised to learn that Abeca thought this was silly. EWTN did not think it was silly. I am convinced that the devil himself has used the many hurtful wounds that have been unjustly inflicted upon women by men and vica versa, to sometimes cloud very good judgement. Maryanne, Are we going to look up to Christ to serve His wounds or are we going to first serve our past or current wounds? This *choice* is what defined the Saints! The accurate statement of the feminization of the Liturgy is not about *your wounds* it is about wounding the Body of Christ. Ask yourself if Satan is still fueling those wounds to blur the truth? Remember, the devil often tempts us to mix truth with lies. Wounded hearts are his favorite playground! EWTN and other Traditional Catholics and Traditional Catholic Websites have not been blinded.

Posted Tuesday, February 07, 2012 1:22 PM By Catherine
Canisius, Do you remember the very old T.V.commercial about Irish Spring Bar of Soap? A happy little leprechaun would promote the great smelling bar of Irish Spring Manly Man soap and say. “Wow! What a manly man! Well Kudos for being the manly man that you are and for courageously speaking up! Canisius, Is there no Catholic parish in your diocese that allows the TLM?

Posted Tuesday, February 07, 2012 1:46 PM By Kenneth M. Fisher
Maryanne Leonard, You vipers, you vultures, full of dead mens’ bones”! You know Who said that. Was it to denigrating and insensitive for you? How about “get thee behind me satan”? There is a proper time and a proper place for everything! God bless, yours in Their Hearts, Kenneth M. Fisher

Posted Tuesday, February 07, 2012 1:53 PM By Maryanne Leonard
Catherine, your calling Canisius a manly man for continuing to call the watering down of liturgy as feminizing is a betrayal to your fellow man AND woman. If I thought all Catholics were as anti-woman as you and Canisius and Bud appear to be if one were to judge by your continuing to use offensive terminology that denigrates women, I would have a hard time calling myself a Catholic. But fortunately I know that God does not see me as a lesser being just because several of my fellow Catholics choose to utilize my gender and yours, and that of Our Blessed Virgin, to describe something that is lesser. So sad that I have to keep saying this, but I know we have all been brainwashed along these lines, and I do forgive all who have fallen into this anti-feminine trap. I for one am so grateful I am a woman and fall on my knees in thanks to God for this wondrous stroke of luck, especially to have been born to live during times when things are getting better for women in most ways, and for women, children, the disabled, the infirm, and people of all colors. When the day comes we are all honored as valuable, I am sure God will be pleased. Now if women could or would just resume their life’s endeavors without denigration, sometimes even from among ourselves, it would be a time to rejoice all the more. I will both pray and work toward that beautiful day.

Posted Tuesday, February 07, 2012 1:57 PM By Maryanne Leonard
Catherine, your calling Canisius a manly man for continuing to call the watering down of liturgy as feminizing is a betrayal to your fellow man AND woman. If I thought all Catholics were as anti-woman as you and Canisius and Bud appear to be if one were to judge by your continuing to use offensive terminology that denigrates women, I would have a hard time calling myself a Catholic. But fortunately I know that God does not see me as a lesser being just because several of my fellow Catholics choose to utilize my gender and yours, and that of Our Blessed Virgin, to describe something that is lesser. So sad that I have to keep saying this, but I know we have all been brainwashed along these lines, and I do forgive all who have fallen into this anti-feminine trap. I for one am so grateful I am a woman and fall on my knees in thanks to God for this wondrous stroke of luck, especially to have been born to live during times when things are getting better for women in most ways, and for women, children, the disabled, the infirm, and people of all colors. When the day comes we are all honored as valuable, I am sure God will be pleased. Now if women could or would just resume their life’s endeavors without denigration, sometimes even from among ourselves, it would be a time to rejoice all the more. I will both pray and work toward that beautiful day.

Posted Tuesday, February 07, 2012 2:02 PM By Canisius
Catherine,yes several pasrishes offer the TLM, I usually attend different ones and I also go to an SSPX chapel

Posted Tuesday, February 07, 2012 3:03 PM By Maryanne Leonard
Strong words, Kenneth. Did you mean them for me? Or for women in general? I don’t think Our Lord feels that way about women as a class of human beings. Of course Bud, Catherine, and anyone else who thinks it is good Christian practice to use the word “feminize” to mean degrade is welcome to cling to that sort of rhetoric if they don’t think it would displease Our Lord to hear them speak of His creatures in that manner. It is obviously going to take a long time for some people to understand my point, which in itself is astonishing to me. You don’t hear anyone use the word “niggardly” anymore, and for extremely good reasons, even though people once threw it around without thought as to the effects words of that sort had on God’s creatures, our fellow human beings. It seems obvious to all but the most blocked when members of varying racial groups are denigrated, but a lot more people have trouble understanding how denigrating women is harmful to both men and women, to say nothing of children. Sad to say, even Catholics sometimes have trouble understanding, and you wouldn’t think that would be the case, since Jesus taught us so well to love another, as He has loved us.

Posted Tuesday, February 07, 2012 4:58 PM By Canisius
Maryanne I do not seek or require your forgiveness, and I knew the “anti-woman” canard was coming. I have been on the receiving end of a lot of ‘anti man” abuse.

Posted Tuesday, February 07, 2012 5:26 PM By Kenneth M. Fisher
Mary Anne, In spite of my education and extensive life experiences, I certainly don’t understand your refusal to admit that feminism has been a curse on mankind. Please identify these so called advances for women under feminism. Is it that they now have left their children to pursue careers often to the detriment of their God given families? Is it that they now have control over most of our parishes and chanceries? Just what are these so called advances that have come from feminism? Do you really believe that under feminism the families are stronger? God bless, yours in Their Hearts, Kenneth M. Fisher

Posted Tuesday, February 07, 2012 8:59 PM By Catherine
Maryanne, Now you are sounding silly. You are completely ignoring well documented facts. I can assure you that God knows that I am not anti-man or anti-woman. It is fact that many women within the Church are actually anti-Catholic. They do not accept the teachings of the Church. Here is some news that might cheer you up and spur you forward. A few years ago I spoke on the phone with a very well known and respected Catholic. This man is a most courageous Catholic man. He has walked the walk where angels fear to tread. He informed me that it was his recent experience to have observed something taking place within the Church. He said that while the Church has definitely been torn and divided he was amazed to see that it was faithful Catholic *women*, *mothers* *grandmothers* all across the United States who were standing up for the faith even more courageously than men. Now, Maryanne, It was a very manly man, who has walked the walk of horrendous persecution, who made this powerful statement. You may choose to ignore facts and reduce it to gender war of being viewed less but even that reveals a lacking in your understanding of our Catholic faith. Who care what anyone thinks about you, me, Canisius or Bud? We should only care what God sees in us. You are correct Maryanne when you said that God knows you are not less for being a woman. Of course He does. God also knows the gifts and talents that he gave to men and women. These gifts and talents were not to be used to dismantle his teachings and dismantle the authority of the male hierarchy of his Catholic Church. Many have forgotten John 3:30…”He must increase, but I must decrease.” Maryanne, He (Christ) must increase, not in virtue and perfection, but in the opinion of the world. When they begin to know him, and believe in him, and in like manner, I must be diminished when they know how much he is above me.” We should all be willing. Are you willing to be diminished for Christ?

Posted Tuesday, February 07, 2012 11:55 PM By Abeca Christian
Catherine I have not heard of the books you mentioned but I will look when I get a chance, I value what you say because you have a lot of wisdom! I do know what bad feminism has caused, we live it. But why is not masculinity not taking any accountability? If it be a consolation to you, after reading your post, I understand now what you mean, like having alter girls is that one that can be considered as a reason? I always just called it modernism and mass abuses. Please don’t get upset Catherine, I will also pray about this one, God is good to me, that all I have to do is pray and keep my opinions to myself on topics that I may not fully get. He is faithful and I trust that he will continue to show me the way, I am open to it. But I can’t help but have a heart also for what Maryanne is saying. I also get why she felt hurt by that term, I get it, perhaps it has something to do with human dignity. I guess we can say that negative feminism has provoked those terms to be used, but we keep neglecting the root of the real problem.

Posted Wednesday, February 08, 2012 12:00 AM By Abeca Christian
I am not one to use those terms in describing the liturgy but it does not mean that it does not exist. I don’t care what the reasons are but with these conversations I am getting why people best choose to use them to help convey what they mean without going in to detail. I may not agree though but who knows if I may have a change of heart after reading these comments. I agree with the Post from Monday, February 06, 2012 12:50 PM By MacDonald. I often say “Mother Church”. : )

Posted Wednesday, February 08, 2012 5:30 AM By Canisius
Well Maryanne, before you whine on how maligned women are, try being a man in this day and age. I’ve heard feminists say that women have always been the primary victims of war, really? Men who do the fighting – aren’t they the primary victims of their own deaths? This is the attitude I deal with. So sorry if pointing out a fact about in the Church today, its true.Feminst running the chancery offices and running around the altar playing priests are the primary reason why men do not go to Church. Thank God for the reprise of the TLM, the reason why I still attend Mass.

Posted Wednesday, February 08, 2012 6:41 AM By Sandra
Catherine, great posts and thoughful commentary. Mother Angelica would be proud of you!

Posted Wednesday, February 08, 2012 7:56 AM By Bob One
I thought this was an article about how to join this ordinariat. Where did the “feminized” stuff come from? How easy to get off track.

Posted Wednesday, February 08, 2012 7:56 AM By Catherine
Abeca, I still do not think you are grasping what I am trying to convey. Expressions such as “Holy Mother Church” or the “Bride of Christ” are beautiful. These types of expressions are not what I am referring too. Those are beautiful expressions. Although Abeca, there are women who do take those beautiful expressions and they teach others that God never intended priests, bishops or even the Pope to be just a man. Some teach that God is a she or a her. These women are known as radical feminists. There have been many problems with radical feminist religious who wanted to change the structure of the Church. I posted above about the women in charge of the youth group. They had these young girls swaying their hips to hip hop music on the altar and down the aisle. The pastor, who allowed this is very effeminate and effeminate men often surround themselves with like minded women who also consider themselves social justice feminists who are also pro-same sex marriage. There are parishes where same-sex couples who are living together are the extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion. Abeca, you asked earlier, “What about the men?” A male priest who is effeminate often speaks and often acts effeminate. So here we have effeminate pastors, women, same sex effeminate men as couples distributing Holy Communion = Feminized Liturgy. Do you remember how Kenneth Fisher often brings up the the terrible speakers at the Religious Education Congress held each year ? Have you ever watched the female and male dancers who do goofy feminized liturgical dance? These are some of the reasons why Pope Benedict XVI wrote the book, ‘The Spirit of the Liturgy.’ There is so much confusion that Pope Benedict XVI wanted to help teach Catholics about the real essence of the Liturgy. The Mass is not meant to be entertainment. In the book Pope Benedict XVI reminds us that the minute we are focusing or applauding something else going on during the Mass we have lost the true essence of the Liturgy.

Posted Wednesday, February 08, 2012 8:20 AM By Catherine
Sandra, Thank you! What a beautiful compliment!

Posted Wednesday, February 08, 2012 9:30 AM By Maryanne Leonard
I believe that no matter how people misinterpret what I am trying to point out that we are best served when we grant one another human dignity and do not use any aspect that describes one another, such as race, gender, appearance, intelligence, etc., to denigrate or divide us. Just as human being have always done, rather than see simple basic truths as being worthy models, people will attack principles that they interpret as threatening, and failing that, will attack the person who dared to speak the truth. Canisius, I had to laugh when you accused me of whining (would you mind pointing out how and where?) and then went on to whine about the plight of men. Catherine, do you actually believe I am promoting such things as altar girls, same sex marriage, and “goofy feminized liturgical dance?” (your words). I am also surprised that you would question basic aspects of my faith and relationship with Christ. I do not support divorce or same sex marriage and all the other things posters here are accusing me of, nor do I feel all men and women have at all times properly used the principle of equal respect, equal value, and equal dignity for the genders in living out their lives. People will always use, abuse, misuse, distort and twist beautiful principles to their own advantages and will fail those principles, themselves, their families, friends and society itself to a greater or lesser degree depending on their personal proclivities, but that does not make the principle any less worthy – just the people misusing it. For example, love is a good thing, but look at how so many people have misused it to their own advantage. Should we denounce love? What about marriage? Education? Faith? Clothing? I could go on. The principle of equal human value for each of us is honorable, equitable, just and even Christ-like, although even that golden concept can be, and has been, used to ill effect, sad to say, by those who fail Christ and one another.

Posted Wednesday, February 08, 2012 10:00 AM By Canisius
Maryanne, wasn’t whining was pointing out a fact, you can go back to misandry club now,,,,,funny you never addressed a single point..

Posted Wednesday, February 08, 2012 10:27 AM By Abeca Christian
Re-read Bud’s comments, he didn’t use feminism be used feminized in a negative term. His comments were short and yet some here went on a tangent and kept reading more into his comments by bringing up woman priests etc, that is why I wanted bud to clarify what he meant with using femininity with his comments but he didn’t reply. I do think that some here are attacking Maryanne Leonard. Accusing her of whining and other hard words. Those words didn’t have to be used in order to dialogue respectfully, trying to suppress a decent dialogue does not mean we have to be little the talk with words like those. Maryanne I think I understand what you are trying to convey. Understanding is one thing, grasping is another. I don’t see any harm or wrong in what she has conveyed, I have also known Maryanne on these threads, she is a faithful devout Catholic.

Posted Wednesday, February 08, 2012 10:38 AM By Abeca Christian
Catherine yes you are correct my dear sister in Christ, you are but where in the world do we have woman priests under our Pope’s church? None have been approved, and praise God for that. Where did we read that, into Bud’s comments about the liturgy? Where did bud mention about the liturgy that he called feminist, say that God was a she? I know that there have been and continue to have abuses in the mass, the liturgy, I am against all these abuses, I just don’t get why we have to blame femininity on this, isn’t it man who approved many of these things? Maybe it is a descriptive word that is describing a problem within our church, I’m sure it depends on what descriptive word comes to mind to different people because I just see those thing as modernism or abuses, disrespectful etc. If Bud wants to use that word, that is fine, I won’t take it personally. But growing up if you were hated because you were born a girl, I could see why a person of that traumatic background would take offense. ( This is not referring to anyone here).

Posted Wednesday, February 08, 2012 1:16 PM By Catherine
Maryanne, Intellectual honesty and reality must work hand in hand. On Nov.14, 2011, 11:47 ‘Marriage As Understood Since Time Immemorial’ you posted, “As a feminist, one of the early ones of well over 40 years. I have to say that *most of us like men in general* and love one man in partner contrary to the way we are portrayed here.” What was that insinuation? Does that comment degrade other women feminists who don’t like men? On Nov. 27, 2011 12:33 “First Bishop to Wed His Same Sex Partner; ‘ you posted this to Mark from Pa. “Specifically what do you suggest that I reread in my post of 12:08. I have reread it and it is *truthful and factual* and am wondering why you said most gay people are not predators? I think it is clear that most gay people are extremely promiscuous, seeking and connecting with as many males as possible and as young as possible that the term trolling is used as part of their everyday conversation. This is proven by simply watching TV shows depicting these unfortunate individuals who have found themselves sucked into a shallow and superficial lifestyle that is far worse and far more dehumanizing, than even the most blase member of the heterosexual hookup generation. Homosexuals are predatory by nature, even in conversation, and that permission to be predatory is not suddenly checked when they are in the company of young males, so young as to be the victims of predatory homosexual criminals.” Maryanne, Please explain how those words factually or realistically square with your 9:30 AM post? Are you only giving yourself permission to be brutally factual? Compare the truthful and factual words *feminized liturgy* to what you truthfully and factually wrote to Mark. Maryanne, You are the most gifted writer on this forum. Don’t pretend that there is not a factual reality. I love your idealism but not at the expense of ignoring reality or living in a fantasy. Feminists even call themselves radical. Ronald Reagan even said, “Facts are stubborn things!”

Posted Thursday, February 09, 2012 2:12 PM By Talitha Kum
@Bud, yikes! Who knew your on point post would be hi-jacked to this degree? As Bob One interjected ‘thought this was about how to join the ordinariate’.

Posted Friday, February 10, 2012 6:28 PM By JLS
Bob One, every time you don’t understand something, you rant that others have gone off track. If your ability to connect dots suffers, there is always some miracle healing service you might repair to.

Posted Friday, February 10, 2012 7:11 PM By Mark from PA
I am trying to remain silent here but the meanspirited nature of some of these comments is very sad. People can bring Christ to others by their kindness, understanding, compassion and respect. Remember how Christ was criticized by those in authority by his kind treatment of the outcasts of society.

Posted Friday, February 10, 2012 7:32 PM By Catherine
Yes, MarkfromPA, Many of us feel the exact same way when mean spirited people persecute and mock faithful Catholic priests like Father Michael Rodriguez just for upholding the teachings of the Catholic Church. I’m quite sure you understand.

Posted Saturday, February 11, 2012 11:50 PM By Abeca Christian
Catherine you have nailed it! I agree! God bless Father Rodriguez, we need more great priests like him! Catherine lets pray for him, he needs our prayers. The spiritual battle is a harsh one, all our priests and bishops need our prayers especially the ones who are fighting the good fight and helping lead souls to Christ!

Posted Monday, February 13, 2012 10:00 AM By Canisius
Spot on Catherine

Posted Tuesday, February 14, 2012 9:54 AM By Catherine
Canisius, Thank you! You have also suffered injustice that was disguised under the false new banner label of diversity. In truth it was the age old sin of disobeying God by acts of perversity. Suffering can change us for the better or it can change us for the worse. When we unite all of our suffering to Christ, it refines us, and then it define us. I know that you realize that no one escapes this life without suffering. I reflected on an earlier post of yours where you talked about going to war. You have personally witnessed the extremely ugly face of war to unselfishly protect our many freedoms and yet we still find that our lives toughest battles are always right in front of us. Wars are punishment for sin and you have witnessed things that many will never witness. I have not walked in your shoes nor the shoes of anyone else. I want to commend you for your self-sacricing service for our country. I also want to commend you for your humility in being forthright in admitting on a number of occasions that you are not proud of everything that you have done. Could not each one of us make that same statement? I know that I can. There is one thing that the father of lies cannot conquer and that is love. It is not a false love that seeks to serve itself. I see that you see this. clearly. I have witnessed you speak the truth in so many posts. I have also witnessed your mercifulness in trying to reach those who remind you of earlier persecutors. You are not lukewarm and this is a gift. Stay the course with Christ’s love for all as your basic foundation. God bless you Canisius!

Posted Sunday, February 19, 2012 1:24 PM By Abeca Christian
Catherine your comments to Canisius were very loving. I was touched by your post to him. You are a deep person I see, a person with a huge heart that Jesus has enlarged over time. Canisius see what a woman in Christ can do, console you in Him, lift you up with words of encouragement and edification in the faith! You are a gentleman, rare in faith filled convictions. That is what children of God are suppose to do, lift one another in Christ and give genuine edification that does not defy natural law or moral values in Christ.

Posted Sunday, February 19, 2012 5:32 PM By Canisius
Abeca & Catherine, thanks for the very kind thoughts, you both may be pleased to know I am approaching a place where I am beginning to let go of the past. This was only accomplished by my prayers to Christ Crucified and the Risen Christ, though I am still struggling with my sins. Thansk again for the nice words. Non nobis Domine sed nomine tu da Gloriam

Posted Wednesday, February 22, 2012 11:39 AM By Abeca Christian
Canisius you are welcome and God bless you. No worries, we are all sinners, I am still struggling too, I am dysfunctional without our Lord’s graces. and having teens have humbled me, I always thought that I had all the answers in raising them, but they prooved me wrong because the reality of things, the outside forces are really strong and sometimes we are not always prepared for what is thrown at us. So lets continue to pray for one another! I am grateful that you have it in you to act out of your free will and continue to chose Christ and his truths. That is what matters the most. When we fall, Christ is there to pick us right back up. With his graces, we embrace and accept His humble love to do so!

Posted Wednesday, February 22, 2012 12:52 PM By Catherine
God Bless you Abeca Christian and God Bless you Canisius, It is so inspiring to hear you inform us that your prayers to Christ Crucified and the Risen Christ are helping you to let go of the painful past. Canisius, Try to stop and reflect. Picture yourself following right behind Christ when He carried the heavy Cross up the hill to Calvary or Golgotha. It is very difficult to do that and sin at the same time.

Posted Friday, February 24, 2012 5:21 PM By Abeca Christian
Thank you Catherine : )