The following comes from an April 8 Catholic News Agency article:
Pope Francis’ highly anticipated post-synodal apostolic exhortation on the gifts and challenges of family life was published April 8.
Titled Amoris Laetitia, or The Joy of Love, the apostolic exhortation is the conclusion of a two-year synod process discussing both the beauty and challenges of family life today. Hosted at the Vatican in 2014 and 2015, these synods gathered hundreds of bishops from around the world.
While much of the Western secular media focused its coverage on homosexuality and the question of communion for the divorced-and-civilly remarried, actual topics discussed in the meetings were much broader, with synod fathers touching on themes such as domestic violence, incest and abuse within families, and marriage preparation.
Pope Francis devoted a substantial section of the document to the topic of educating children, observing, “The family is thus the place where parents become their children’s first teachers in the faith.” He also offered suggestions for improving marriage preparation programs, inviting engaged couples to consider a simple wedding and to set aside technological distractions.
In the document’s introduction, Pope Francis wrote that “everyone should feel challenged by Chapter Eight,” which is titled “Accompanying, Discerning and Integrating Weakness.”
That chapter, which describes the Church as “a field hospital,” discusses the pastoral care of the divorced-and-civilly-remarried, as well as those who cohabit and face other irregularities.
The Pope voiced agreement with the Synod Fathers’ observations that divorced-and-remarried Catholics need to be “more fully integrated into Christian communities…while avoiding any occasion of scandal.” He restated that the divorced-and-remarried are not excommunicated, and quoted the Synod Fathers, who had said that “language or conduct that might lead them to feel discriminated against should be avoided.”
“It can no longer simply be said that all those in any ‘irregular’ situation are living in a state of mortal sin and are deprived of sanctifying grace,” Pope Francis said. “More is involved here than mere ignorance of the rule. A subject may … be in a concrete situation which does not allow him or her to act differently and decide otherwise without further sin.”
Someone in such a situation of objective sin but without full culpability can grow in charity with the help of the Church, and “in certain cases, this can include the help of the sacraments,” he noted. “I would also point out that the Eucharist ‘is not a prize for the perfect, but a powerful medicine and nourishment for the weak’,” he added, quoting from his 2013 apostolic exhortation Evangelii gaudium.
He called it “reductive” in discernment merely “to consider whether or not an individual’s actions correspond to a general law or rule.”
“A pastor cannot feel that it is enough simply to apply moral laws to those living in ‘irregular’ situations, as if they were stones to throw at people’s lives. This would bespeak the closed heart of one used to hiding behind the Church’s teachings.”
Pope Francis professed understanding for those who prefer “a more rigorous pastoral care which leaves no room for confusion.”
No doctrine change perhaps, but this document is as clear as mud. How can Catholic doctrine and praxis change from nation to nation? I thought what was true in Germany was true in the US and was true in Asia. Sound doctrine and truth are now derided as being ‘rigid’. Letting the faithful act according to their conscience is now ‘mercy’. No wonder Cardinals Kaspar and Schoenborn were so excited before the release of Amoris Laetitia. If we don’t like the teachings of the Church, we can just throw them out the window and form a church in our own image. A very sad day for traditional Catholics. The Bride of Christ is again treated with boxing gloves. Domine, miserere nobis.
Catholics who persist in an objectively serious sinful state cannot receive Holy Communion in the Catholic Church. The catholic church of Pope Francis has changed doctrine by allowing bishops to decide if the divorced and remarried can receive Holy Communion. We now have a schism.
The rock upon which Jesus Christ found the Catholic Church was Peter, not all the apostles. In his apostolic exhortation Pope Francis warns about throwing stones at people’s lives. He has broken the rock and is throwing its pieces at us.
Faithful Catholics. NEWS FLASH. Check out – ChurchMilitant.com Do not be troubled. The Catechism rules. This is just some of the Popes ‘feelings’ about the rules of the Church. Cardinal Brandmuller of Germany clarifies everything for us. He says, “Amoris Laetitia” cannot contradict the CATECHISM. And that the Papal ‘exhortation’ must be read in light of traditional church teaching.
Praise be to God for Cardinal Brandmuller’s clarity in confusing times!!
“The Age of Individual Conscience.” = The Age of the Right to Sin.
Of course there is no doctrine change. But I am going to guess that it will be hard for some here to follow the “old” doctrine, which he reiterates and explains for our times.
I can’t wait to read the whole document. So far I’ve only seen snippets and interpretations.
I’m trying to read 50 pages a day. It’s only been out since 3:00AM our time and some folks have written twice as much commentary and analysis as the whole 261 page document.
I know right. Short pages but still. I’ve got my airplane reading for tomorrow! I’m starting with what Francis calls the most challenging: chapter 8.
Bernie Sanders Accepts An Invitation From The Vatican
Consistency is key. The faithful are not ostriches or Pollyanas. IF the news reports about Bernie Sanders being invited to the Vatican are true, then it becomes even clearer why Donald Trump was publicly called un-Christian. See Catechism # 675. How many Catholics will now vote for this communist because Bernie is invited to speak/teach at the Vatican? Where is the merciful, field hospital approach to Donald Trump’s wounded soul? Will Donald Trump be invited? Trust Jesus, pray the rosary.
Catherine, I agree with what seems to be the gist of your comment: that a candidate for office shouldn’t be invited to the Vatican for a conference. A sitting president yes but not a candidate. I have read that he basically invited himself and that the Vatican is not happy about it, or at least some at the Vatican thought it was presumptuous, which it is.
“A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines”. Ralph Waldo Emerson
I think Pope Francis’s comments on the Donald gave him South Carolina, Catherine. But yes, there are Catholics who will be grievously misled due to Sanders being invited to the Vatican. I believe Fr. Longenecker of Standing on My Head also gave Sanders a pass while excoriating the candidate who seems to think American’s have an obligation to take care of Americans first. Would that bridges to common sense and Catholic Faith and Morals could be rebuilt.
Bernie Sanders will be at the Vatican Academy of Social Sciences right before the NY primary. Bernie will join socialist presidents Evo Morales of Bolivia and Rafael Correa of Ecuador. Just as convenient as Donald Trump being called not a Christian Right before South Carolina. The “Joy of Sex” document will increase the popularity ratings of our Pope, the better to influence American elections.
Sorry, but the Pope’s open embrace of Cuban Marxists and an endless stream of “Immigrants” is awakening many Catholics – those with ears to hear and eyes to see – to their duty to put “duty” first. Not pretend that throwing one’s children and next door neighbors to the wolves is the cost of being thought charitable or Christian – even by the Pope.
The “Joy of Sex” will only last so far as the displeasure of losing one’s head and one’s job and the whole of the US economy. Even with government handouts, sex isn’t cheap. Dinner and drinks, at the very least, cost money.
In one article I read about this document Smartphones were mentioned in the text and comments were made about families not having their dinner meal together. From what I have observed at restaurants, if the family was together for dinner, everyone would probably (sadly) be sitting at the dinner table checking and sending their text messages! This includes both parents and children.
Bernie Sanders is pro-abortion. Will Pope Francis tell Sanders he is “not Christian”? That’s what Pope Francis said about Donald Trump because Trump said he was going to build a wall at our southern border. Is it “not Christian” to put up a wall but okay to be pre-abortion?
Bernie Sanders is not Christian. He is Jewish.
I don’t care if Bernie Sanders is a Jew, a Catholic or a holly roller. He’s pro-abortion! If Pope Francis doesn’t ostracize Sanders for being pro-abortion, it essentially says being pro-abortion is acceptable. That will tell weak “Catholics” that it’s okay for vote for pro-abortion politicians!
Just watched Fox News, and the network confirmed many things which prove that much is rotten in the state of the Vatican. Yes, some matters are gray, but then most are black and white. Christ said you are either this or that: hot or cold. If you are lukewarm, He will spit you out of His mouth. Our Lord said it, it is true, and as much as he tries, Pope Francis cannot change doctrine or moral theology without being a heretic or an apostate. Ave Maria Purrissima !
You get your Catholic information from Fox News????????? Oh dear!
Add C&H I be you get yours from MSNBC or CNN….or worse NC reporter… we can play this game too…
Actually I read all three of those, but also Catholic Vote and this forum.
C&H…your feeling about Fox News (which I do not watch) are exactly how I feel about your viewing choices…
He didn’t change doctrine or “moral theology”. He just reminded us of what is already there. God bless
Jususita, I always respected your opinions, even when I disagreed with them. But, I must say that is harder to do now that I know you watch Fox News. Is there a more un-American channel on television? Really?:)
Bob One believes anyone who does not subscribe to his world is not fully evolved as a human, he defines the word Leftist..
So Bob One, please tell us what television news you watch.
John, I confess to being a new junkie. For local 911 news I watch the local NBC affiliate in the evening. For in-depth coverage I watch The News Hour. For breaking news I will turn to CNN. Each day I read the local news paper as well as on-line – Red State, Daily Beast, Whispers in the Loggia, NCR and NCR for varying views, Crux, The Big Pulpit and CCD, of course. When I have some extra time I will scan the WAPO and NYT. On Sunday, I watch a couple of the morning news shows. Daily, I watch Charlie Rose because of the in-depth interviews with outstandingly bright people. Otherwise I play lots of golf and Bocce Ball, wine clubs, gourmet dinner clubs and spoil my grand and great grand kids.
I am not surprised the majority of your news intake is from Leftist bilge networks and sites…
Canisus, Red State is about as right wing as you can get, Whispers is down the middle with just Vatican news and bishop announcements, Crux is middle of the road, NCReview is very orthodox, Big Pulpit is a gathering of interesting blogs and New Hour almost always has both sides represented in each article. Daily Beast and NCReporter are the only ones I would consider leftist/not always orthodox. What is your list that I should be reading?
Goodness, Bob One. Red State! You would associate with an information outlet that is Right Wing? Isn’t that un-American? Seriously. What is the criteria you use when making such sweeping declarations? (…or do you only drop in to feel like you’re really attempting to understand the other side?)
And Crux, well, that is middle of the road only insofar as they haven’t yet begun banning those who uphold Catholic teaching and yet they have a “Spirituality” columnist who is rabidly anti-Catholic. True, she spins her positions against doctrine as truly loving and goes on Ignatian Retreats that vault over the requisite rules of discernment. So I guess that makes it okay.
Good grief, man. What should you be reading? Try your…
… own posts for their rank inconsistency in guiding principles.
Spoiling the grand-kids is supposed to be a metaphor for indulging them occasionally, not literally spoiling them by pretending that everything is okay now so that they’ll just talk to us.
The News Hour is PBS leftist at its worst, NC Reporter is non-Catholic and the Daily Beast is trash…you can read whatever you want, but you are still a liberal.
…an un-American channel? Good grief, Bob One.
It’s hard to take you seriously most of the time. This last comment wherein you demonstrate your lack of credible foundation to either compliment or chastise Jesuita is a real hoot.
Thanks for the chuckle ;^)
So now we’re being told that the Roman Catholic Church was wrong until April 2016?
That is what modernists do. Since they have long hated the Mass in Latin and the clear teachings of the Church, they have spent the last 50+ years removing it and replacing it with a liturgy and teaching of their liking. The result is the tremendous loss of faith among Catholics, especially in Europe and the US. What these modernists/heretics/apostates are doing is nothing short of demonic.
Well said Clinton…
Clifton, the results may be the same, I’m not sure, but I really don’t think that “modernist” hate the Mass in Latin. VII was in the mid-sixties, a little over fifty years ago. Many of today’s priest can’t remember ever having seen a Latin Mass. They were not taught too much Latin or Greek, and attended seminaries that were focused on the “new” post-VII church. Most people who attend Mass on weekends don’t remember the old form of the Mass, so they don’t hate it, they just don’t know about it. I grew up with the Latin Mass, but I haven’t attended on in fifty years, but I don’t hate it. I think most people just don’t know about it or relate to it.
Bob One the modernist liberals detest the Tridentine Rite Mass…bet on it…
They do hate not only the Mass in Latin, and ad orientem, but they also despise that it is without novelties; ie Communion in the hand, altar girls, lay lectors, and banal music. The timeless Tridentine Mass is accompanied by a sound and traditional praxis and teaching. The Novus Ordo, with the emphasis on the charisma of the celebrant, is too often focused on entertaining the assembly. Bishops know all too well about the TLM, that is why so many are determined that the faithful remain ignorant about it. We have and continue to be robbed of our Catholic heritage.
What was sadly needed, was NOT the Synod on the Family– but a worldwide, crystal-clear catechesis, required of all Catholics, and to lead them directly into a daily, good practice of their Faith and Morals! That would solve so many problems! The problem with the worldly, secularized Catholic Church today, is that it is no longer a good, honest, truly practicing-Catholic Church! You cannot have two things, God and the “fallen” world! The job of the priest, is to go after the poor, “fallen” sheep, who “went astray” and fell into the “brambles,” and lead them back safely to the fold, and into a good life! With God’s love and mercy!
Amen Amen Amen! I admit I have not read much of this new document, just short conclusions. But I agree, we are blessed with a crystal clear Catechism!. Why attempt to ‘fix’ what is NOT broken? I can’t help but wonder if the Synod participants accept the Catechism as the basis of Catholic teaching? Too bad we did not get a Synod on the Catechism.
The camel now has his nose under the tent, and his whole body will soon follow. As with most things, once compromise is tolerated, the edifice soon falls. The protestants compromised on contraception and birth control at the 1930 Lambeth Conference and now everything goes, without reservation, Lesbian Bishops and homosexual “marriage” and all. The Orthodox and the SSPX are looking mighty good.
No, I do not get my Catholic information from Fox News. I read it on other web sites, but what I did get from Fox News is confirmation of what I already heard. It is wise to check several sources before coming to a conclusion. I do not appreciate your personal attack on me, C&H just because I once in a while listen to Fox News in order to get a balanced report. Ave Maria Purrissima !
Amoris Laetitia is a beautiful exhortation! I read an online English version yesterday. It is lengthy which gives us much to consider and reflect upon. God Bless his Holiness!
I watch Fox News all the time and I don’t apologize for it. If that offends anyone, go find a safe space with the college kids who can’t bear to see or hear the word (hide your eyes) “Trump”.
Frankly, I don’t care what Francis says or does. I’m sticking to my pre-Vaican II Catholicism.
Good for you, Barbara. Are people like you and I destined to be the faithful Remnant? Are we seeing the first cracks of schism? Are we once again entering the catacombs in order to remain true Catholics? My hopes for Pope Francis are fading.
It’s hard to be a Catechist these days and teach from The Catechism of the Catholic Church. Things are changing so fast that if I teach from the Catechism I will be thought to be a hatemonger. Here’s one example:
“It can no longer simply be said that all those in any ‘irregular’ situation are living in a state of mortal sin and are deprived of sanctifying grace,” Pope Francis said.
““It can no longer simply be said that all those in any ‘irregular’ situation are living in a state of mortal sin and are deprived of sanctifying grace,” Which is completely contrary to Church teachings… Francis is preaching heresy plain and simple…
I do not care for the Pope’s exhortation, “Amoris Laetitia.” I think it is too compromising of Catholic religious beliefs, and makes big excuses for uncatechized, or rebellious Catholics of today, who are actually taught by the fallen, corrupt world, to lead a sinful life, falsely saying it is “acceptable,” in the eyes of God. Yes– those Catholics living “in any “irregular” situation are living n a state of mortal sin and are deprived of sanctifying grace,” Holy Father! They are EXTREMELY deprived of God, and of His sanctifying grace! Holy Father– you MUST LEAD THEM ALL TO CHRIST!!
I saw a recent, heart-breaking documentary, on young Irish Catholics of today, sadly growing up in an ignorant, sordid world of rock music, dope, promiscuity, crime— and no Catholic catechesis, nor decent education, at all! Several of these young people were overjoyed to find a nice, new Catholic organization promoting chastity, good behavior, and good religious devotions, and they joined it, and were following it, eagerly trying to completely change their lives! It was a GREAT SHOCK to see this! Their parents, grandparents, and all of their Irish Catholic ancestors– would DIE to see what Vatican II did, to their precious country!
Linda Marie, I know the rules just like you do, but … What about the woman who is abused by her husband, raped on a regular basis, and is abandoned for a younger “trophy?” When she gets a divorce from the cad, is she to blame for the separation? She then get married again outside the church. Is she really living in sin? Should she not be treated differently than her abusing husband in the eyes of the church? Aren’t there degrees of guilt?
Sacramental marriage is a spiritual reality, Bob One. The inability to contract another marriage when one is validly married is not a punishment, it is just an acknowledgement that the place – that of spouse – is already filled.
This obsession with guilt and punishment is the problem, Bob One. If one has an arm that doesn’t work as it should that does not negate the reality that an arm is, in reality, present on the body. One would still have to purchase clothing, keeping in mind, the reality that there are two arms.
Bob One, in the case of spousal abuse and abandonment, a Catholic may go to their local Tribunal– for FREE!!– and request an annulment!! Our primary relationship, as Catholics– is with CHRIST!! If we are discerning Holy Matrimony– it needs to be looked at in that light. Is this the VOCATION that Christ is calling you two to? Some Catholics do not take their religion seriously, but want “something nice socially to do, on Sundays.” Makes me SICK, when you see persecuted and slain Catholics, in foreign countries!! Our Faith is certainly not a “nice social exercise, on Sundays!” But at times, our recent Popes treat it that way!
Bob 1, Look to Marriage vows which are crystal clear: For BETTER or WORSE; For RICHER or POORER; in SICKNESS & HEALTH, till DEATH DO US PART! If you get dealt a WORSE outcome (very sad), get separated and/or divorced if you MUST. That is NOT a sin! Re-Marrying, without an ANNULMENT, is the sinful act of will. Why? Because it’s prideful to think you can cast aside a promise to God because you believe you have a really good reason (excuse) to negate the hard parts of the marriage vows (Worse, Sick and Poorer). Do you believe God’s law is ‘negotiable’? Then look to EVE. She tried the first ‘excuse’ to disobey God’s only rule = paradise lost. Our choice is Heaven or Hell. If you seek heaven, humble obedience is the WAY…
Cont…..way & our example is Jesus. Jesus was obedient till death. The ultimate injustice was placed onto Jesus & He humbly obeyed. Sorry to say, the high degree of injustice, in this abused woman story, does not negate the sinful action of re-marriage without an annulment. Pray this woman be given the help and opportunity to seek an annulment (which it sounds like she deserves) so she is free to ‘marry’ again in God’s good graces.
She may well be living in sin, God will decide that. Dante’s 7 levels of hell indicates there are degrees of guilt. But the most minor unrepented mortal sin is still a ticket for admission. Millions of irregular marriages are hardly the result of the “hard” cases. The problem with the Pope’s exhortation is that it gives license to anyone looking for an excuse. The really hard cases should just pursue an annulment. If they don’t, God will still judge them perfectly. In the meantime, the rules have to be the same for everyone on earth.
Th irregular situations include many things beyond the divorced. I am reminded by the distraction in the movie Up : LOOK, SQUIRREL !
Liberals like to brand conservatives and put them in a box. However, most conservatives are very well read, and listen to a variety of news programs in order to get the truth. For those who ganged up on Jesusita, stick to watching THE VIEW or other far left programs, and do not criticize the messenger, the one writing these replies When reading the lives of the saints, it is wise to seek out several sources, so one can get the facts. There is no fault in trying to seek the truth.
In sordid major cities like New York, San Francisco, or Los Angeles (and Hollywood!) there have always been some wayward Catholics, living in “irregular” situations, committing sins like pre-marital sex, adultery, divorce and re-marriage outside the Church, or having affairs; etc. Before the filthy hippie-liberal 1960’s era started, people who sinned, honestly admitted it! Many sent their children to Catholic schools, and hoped they would end up leading good lives! But in today’s sordid, selfish, unChristian world– Catholics who live in sin, deny the truth! They demand that sin be “acceptable!” They are DISHONEST, even SATANIC!! The Church should tell them all, “NO!!”
Many authors and speakers, when they do research, seek out different sources for their material. If you do not know what the enemy is thinking, how can you defeat him? Many years ago I learned not to trust the Vatican’s newspaper, because it praised John Lennon, and other icons of the godless society and promotors of the cultural rot that is infecting all aspects of society. Is it a sin to listen to Fox News? For the red hot liberals, the only source of news is the National Catholic Reporter
Linda Marie- have you read Amoris Laetitia in its entirety? I think many conservatives will be surprised by what they find in the document: a beautifully written proclamation of the Christian family! Read it first before forming an opinion and dismissing the document. This is how Catholics are supposed to form their consciences!
Bob, red the Catechism! Much better! And a true Christian family, does NOT live by the ways of the world- but by Christ!
Sorry, but I meant to type “read the Catechism,” in my first sentence! Anyway— WHY all these poor excuses, to “dumb down” Christianity, for those not truly interested? I have also seen a few eager converts talk in churches, all about how they found Jesus, and became good practicing Catholics– and completely changed their lives for Him, even going to lots of trouble that some wouldn’t– all because of a SINCERE FAITH!! Very impressive! That is our REAL Church, right there, right among HONEST, sincere believers, not those looking for some dumb thing to do, on Sunday mornings!
Concerning this document, the Roman author Antonio Socci wrote “mortal sin is replaced with social sin, and the door to Communion for the divorced and remarried is opened; the real sin is ignoring the poor.” Pope Francis has canonized situation ethics thereby destroying key elements of Catholic moral theology by being so ambiguous in his use of words. The result is that this document is a total catastrophe. A modernist would be most pleased with this morally deceptive papal letter.
Linda Marie: I am a faithful Roman Catholic who has read the catechism and the Holy Bible in its entirety along with various papal and conciliar documents. The Church teaches that the faithful must give the due consideration to a pope’s teachings. I think Pope Francis is worthy of such consideration.
Bob, I agree, that all Popes should receive respect. However, one has to read and listen carefully, and use common sense! Also, one should be very responsible, and very careful, in what one presents to children, and to those instructing children, in our Church! Our Catholic Faith is a BIG responsibility! I think we all should read everything the Pope puts out– but be careful! In the end, our true responsibility for our souls– is to God!
Make sure it is the Baltimore Catechism! And it is to late for the damage was done on an airplane back to Rome when the words “who am I to judge” were uttered.
Pope to extend validity of confessions of SSPX priests beyond Year of Mercy
Let us all, continue to pray, that the same field hospital approach being discussed in irregular marriages, includes the merciful invitation of Traditional Catholics to maintain “all” of the same Traditions that deem SSPX priests worthy to validly hear confessions. The problem with the decline of vocations and Catholic attendance at Mass has very little to do with a lack of compassion. It has everything to do with a great loss of faith. “Do not accept anything as love which lacks truth.” – St. Teresa Benedicta of the Cross (Edith Stein)
EXCELLENT, Catherine! Thanks for the link!
You’re welcome, Linda Maria!
Why is it that when Pope Benedict XVI spoke and wrote, the world mocked him and scorned his message. The same could also be said about Pope John Paul II. Now that there is a liberal in charge, the world, the press and the masses adore him, and believe him to be so kind and gentle. Well, Pope Francis was not so kind in Mexico when he appeared to have scolded a person who tried to touch him. Also, this letter is NOT infallible, and we do not have to follow it. under pain of sin and excommunication.
This latest document is not infallible, nor does it carry any weight in regards to changing faith and morals. To say the letter is heretical and confusing is about the only positive things that can be written or said about it. Ave Maria Purrissima !
Jesusita etal: There are only two instances when the Pope has spoken infallibly: Immaculate Conception (declared by Pope Pius IX in 1854 and grandfathered in after the First Vatican Council’s declaration of papal infallibility in 1870) and her bodily Assumption into heaven (declared by Pope Pius XII in 1950). –
This latest letter from the Holy Father is a disaster. Not only does it confuse the already ignorant laity, it also goes against centuries of Catholic teaching. This encyclical does nothing to build up the Mystical Body of Christ, but instead, by using modernist terms and ideas, greatly tears apart and divides God’s holy church. The faithful will not be flocking back into the churches, but instead will continue to drift further and further away from God and His tremendous graces.
I seriously doubt you even read it.
Well-said, Lianne! Many high-level, excellent, orthodox experts of the Church, such as Cardinal Burke, and others– have said the same as you! I agree! The Pope’s deliberate ambiguity, is very tragic!
Jesuita: you lodge strong allegations against the Pope but do not provide any substantiation. Interesting, is it not that Father Fessio of St. Ignatius Press, who is hardly a flaming liberal or a heretic, sees much that is positive in Amoris Laetitia? Perhaps you might read it before you condemn it!
Looking for the good is often a means of dealing with what is otherwise a very sad development. The development is the pretense of devolving doctrine wherein that which was clear and still is true is now portrayed as unknown and up for debate. Sorry, Bob. The strong allegations are made by reading what has been written and what was left out.
You may want to understand that a cake that has one slice of rat poison in it is not, despite what one may want to believe because the cake looks good, really a good choice to be served after dinner.
Vaugebooking objections to a papal document doesn’t help the cause of catholicism or orthodoxy, Ann Malley, yet we are back to that tactic often employed by yourself and others who are critical of Vatican II and most developments since then. EXACTLY what passages do you object to? EXACTLY what do you think was left out? Admit it, you haven’t even read it! Jesuita should admit it as well. If you are going to go on wholesale attacks, at least have the decency to read the full document.
Bob: I whole heartedly agree with your comments. Many fundamentalist Catholics pick and choose what they like from their favorite Popes (a la Benedict XVI) much like Protestant fundamentalists select certain passages from the Sacred Scriptures to support a particular theological and/or political position. Many fundamentalist Catholics practice the very cafeteria Catholicism that they find repugnant of so-called liberal Catholics.
DGPS1972, what Church did you say you belong to? The Catholic Church? No such thing, as a so-called “fundamentalist” or a “liberal,” when it comes to the Catholic Church! You receive religious and moral training, when young, from the Catechism! You either agree with it, or decide you DO NOT– and realistically, leave the Church!! Better for a Pope to TELL THE TRUTH, of some VERY HARD TEACHINGS, of OUR LORD!! Next, the job of a good Pope, is to HELP HIS PEOPLE TO REALISTICALLY DEAL WITH CHRIST’S TRUE TEACHINGS!! Not be ambiguous, deny the truth– or worse lie about it, make up your own false religion, and say it belongs to Jesus Christ!
SO called liberal Catholics are just that.. Liberals and liberals first before they are Catholic
Canisus, you say that like its a bad thing!!! Orthodox Catholicism is very liberal when compared to what we now call conservative. It is about moral economics, helping our fellow citizens, making life better for others, fair wages, ability to unionize for worker protections, etc. This is a explained in the encyclicals of our Popes over the last couple of hundred years. We are a compassionate people.
Liberalism is a bad thing Bob One and always will be. You think compassion equals high taxation and the welfare state, when in Catholic terms it means getting souls into heaven. Unions ha the most corrupt entities there are.
YFC– what Church do you think you belong to? None, perhaps! Ann Malley is correct! And the poor Pope is like you– ambiguous, vague, inconsistent, and confused about what Church he really belongs to and truly believes in! Christ is very clear in His teachings! No ambiguities! No nonsense! His teachings are just hard– so, you and the Pope and Vatican II Council Fathers can complain all you want! But His teachings will never change!
LM, why would you even ask what Church I belong to, when you know perfectly well I belong to the Roman Catholic Church! If you want to compare me to this poor Pope, it is certainly flattery, but the only thing I’m confused about — and he would be too — is what teachings you think he and the fathers of the Council changed? They changed exactly nothing of the dogma of the Church. What Church do you think they belong to?
At Vatican II, YFC–many of the Council Fathers introduced ambiguity, and near-heresy, in some areas! The ambiguity, confusion, and even denial of some Catholic teachings, has been continuing, right up to the reign of Pope Francis! There are now many Church leaders, especially in Germany– who are near-heretics, denying the teachings of the Church, and wanting to replace them with their own false, invented “Church!” Church dogma was never changed, by the Council Fathers– but the poor attitudes of many of them towards our Faith, and denial of many of the Church’s teachings– is a big problem!!
What is a “near heretic”? Obviously, it is someone who is orthodox. So what’s your problem?
Linda Marie: You are correct. Jesus was very clear in His teachings. His strongest criticisms were directed to the religious establishment and those who wanted everyone to follow the rules! Cf Matthew 12:10
DGPS1972— Jesus was a devout Jew, and actually, He criticized those who were cruel hypocrites, who used the rules of the Jewish Faith, to harm innocent good people!
How dare you accuse me of not having read this letter. This is pure liberal speculation and presumption on your part. ” Attack the messenger” is the motto of all modernists, and this truth can be verified by the way you liberals answer perfectly honest writers. Shame on you! Consider you bow and scrape at the feet of this horrible document, you are hypercritics when it comes to mercy and compassion.
Even though I presume the contributors have read the infamous papal letter, even if someone has not, does it mean that that person is closed minded? One does not have to read ‘Catcher in the Rye’ to know that it is a dirty book. One also does not have to look at Playboy, Penthouse, or Playgirl to know that these works were produced in order to tempt the readers into sin. In many cases, you can judge a book by its cover. The Legion of Decency was founded to protect people from filth. The pope’s letter is not filth, but it is dangerous to the faith.
Even though Father Fessio is not a liberal, he is still a priest who tries to get along. He finds good things to say about this horrible document, but then in almost anything, one can find a positive aspect. Unfortunately, despite what Father Fessio has said or written about this papal letter, it is still a disaster, and will cause more harm than good because it is modernist through and through. Ave Maria Purrissima !
St. John the Baptist IS the example that all of our priests should follow. Salome’s seductive dance secured the beheading and holy martyrdom of St.John the Baptist. St. John the Baptist DID NOT *add lib* candy-coated words about infidelity. Today our rebellious or timid shepherds are doing the lip dancing around with a seductive candy-coating of words. Our shepherds are NOW, being put to the test! Unless they use, the same courageous example of clarity as St John the Baptist, they are securing the path that leads many, including themselves, away from Eternal Life.
May St. John the Baptist, intercede through the Holy Ghost, to infuse and rekindle the fire of Divine Love and Courage in Christ’s shepherds.
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