In a significant departure for the archdiocese of San Francisco, the Holy Father today named Bishop Salvatore Cordileone as the ninth archbishop of the archdiocese of San Francisco. Bishop Cordileone succeeds Archbishop George Niederauer, who was appointed in 2005. The event has truly been described as “a bombshell.” Best known as the chairman of the U.S. Bishops’ Ad Hoc Committee for the Defense of Marriage, His Excellency will shepherd the Church at ground zero of the “culture war.”
Noted Vatican watcher Rocco Palmo reported at 3AM California time today:
For the better part of the last four months, the machinery of the archdiocese that — at least, under normal circumstances — many US bishops consider the nation’s most daunting assignment has quietly prepared its 450,000 members for a transition at the top. Yet while the pontiff’s selection of the ninth archbishop of San Francisco had almost universally been expected by late June, an apparent delay was explained by credible reports of a back room Roman “fight” over the state and direction of the famously progressive local church.
Now, finally, the dust has cleared… and even for a city well-accustomed to seismic activity, the ecclesial Richter Scale both by the Bay and well beyond is about to record a right whopper…. After a half-century of occupants accused by conservatives of soft-pedaling church teaching in favor of a more conciliatory approach toward constituencies ranging from gays and lesbians to Nancy Pelosi — a group of prelates among which the recently-retired chief guardian of church doctrine, Cardinal William Levada, was not exempt from sometimes stinging criticism — the move delivers the long-desired “Holy Grail” of the American Catholic Right firmly into the faction’s hands, in the form of a prelate already known widely both for his forcefulness and a stringent doctrinal cred almost unequaled among his confreres on the national bench.
For liberal Catholics, meanwhile, the appointment is likely to be received as something akin to the city’s Great Earthquake of 1906, or even more apocalyptic events. In a nutshell, an appointment of this dramatic, potentially explosive nature is enough to make even last year’s blockbuster move in the States — likewise Rome’s final US move of the annual work-cycle — seem almost mild by comparison.
The appointment of Bishop Cordileone represents a significant departure from recent appointments in the archdiocese of San Francisco. Recent elevations to the local hierarchy– Archbishop George Niederauer, and Auxiliary Bishops William Justice and Robert McElroy–all seemed to have come from within a circle close to Cardinal William Levada. That is not the case with Bishop Cordileone. The selection indicates a recognition, at the highest levels of the Vatican, of the dangerous drift of the Archdiocese in recent years. Instances of that drift have been reported regularly in CalCatholic. They include Catholic Charities of San Francisco’s “gay adoptions” fiasco of 2006; the creation of parishes where homosexuality is openly celebrated, notably San Francisco’s Most Holy Redeemer; the loss of Catholic identity and outright anti-Catholic teaching at the (Jesuit) University of San Francisco; not to mention (as Palmo notes) the ongoing tolerance of misstatements of Catholic teaching by the city’s Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi.
The archdiocese of San Francisco covers three counties, San Francisco, San Mateo and Marin. While there is a strong pro-Catholic and pro-family movement, exemplified by the Walk for Life West Coast, San Francisco itself is well known for its activist homosexual political structure and anti-Catholic attitude. Some of those attitudes are even found in parishes and certainly in the (Jesuit) University of San Francisco. In 2008, more than 80% of San Francisco voters supported Barack Obama. San Francisco also has the fewest number of children of any comparable city in the United States.
The picture of Bishop Cordileone is perfect! He looks like he’s ready to take on the world, with the help of all the saints and angels, truth and orthodoxy and especially the Holy Trinity. Amen, I say, Amen!
Well said. It’s high time that we have what Pat Buchanan called for in 2000, a muscular Christianity. Time for Orthodoxy and a return to humble obedience to church teaching and an uncompromising defense of it.
St. Michael the Archangel (and the others as well), defend Cordileone in this BATTLE, be his safeguard against the wickedness and the snares of the devil. May God rebuke him, we humbly pray and do Thou, O Prince of the Heavenly Host –
by the Divine Power of God –
cast into hell, satan and all the other evil spirits,
who roam throughout the world seeking the ruin of souls. AMEN
Wow!!! It’s difficult to say anything else. The Holy See chose one of the, if not the most outspoken bishop striving to protect the sanctity of marriage for a diocese synonymous for rejecting the nuptial meaning of human sexuality. We have to pray for Bishop Cordileone to have strength as he enters a diocese that will fight him and for this good bishop to persevere in God’s Love and fortitude. This is GREAT news! God Love You.
This certainaly makes Oakland the poor relation. San Francisco is a lost cause, in Oakland something could be accomplished. God bless you Bishop as you are going to need it.
SF is a “lost cause” only to the weak and apathetic. If Cordileone shows continued wisdom, he will do well there.
San Francisco can be changed for the better. When Walk for Life West Coast started it was a handful of faithful against much larger, angry and loud crowd of San Francisco “lost souls”. Now, not even a decade later the Walk for Life West Coast is 50 000 strong, and San Francisco opposition is nowhere to be seen. Can you imagine what a difference a strong, persistent and holy Archbishop like Archbishop Cordileoe can do?
Europe and Asia … hmn, the whole world, not to mention the Chosen People were all lost causes. Jesus looked down at the city of Jerusalem which He had nutured and which had rebelled terminally, and Scripture says, “Jesus wept”. The apostles went into the lost causes and changed them to great causes. Bishops who decide to give up their lost cause administrative gamesmanship and become bishops in the true and holy sense of the meaning will transition lost causes into true causes. It is the reason for being of the Church.
Matthew stop displaying bigotry
still lookinig for any display of matthews bigotry, but not seeing it….
maybe because you too are one alike? hey just saying haha
With God, all things are possible
I love Archbishop Salvatore Joseph Cordileone. With this appointment, the whole world just became a better place to live in!
Dear Walter Hoye II, Thank you for your own example of courageous leadership in action. I am sure that when Bishop Cordileone starts to houseclean, he will also reflect on the difficult path that you walked. Your kind and very publicly supportive statement to Archbishop Cordilleone reminds us of Simon of Cyrene, who stepped out in the crowd and helped Jesus to carry his very heavy cross.
I second that Catherine! Mr. Hoye, your testimony to the beauty and truth of Jesus is an encouragement to all believers. You’ve been in my prayers many times. This is definitely an occasion for rejoicing, if only so I don’t have to hear all these Californians whining anymore. (haha)
Thank you, thank you, Rev. Hoye for all the suffering you have gone through for the Lord and His people, and alleluia that the Holy Father has chosen a good orthodox Cathoic bishop as the new archbishop of San Francisco. Both of you have my prayers, and may the Good Lord bless and keep you. May he give you strength for the journey and a heavenly home at the end of your lives.
God Bless you Mr. Hoye, I would take a 1 of you over a 1000 liberal Catholics….
And we Catholics love you Rev. Hoye and all you believe in. Thank you for your prayers, example and action!
Wonderful news! May God grant him health, strength and protection.
RIP – MHR
I wouldn’t write our obituary yet. Most Holy Redeemer is one of the better parishes in the city. Our new Archbishop might not realize this yet, hopefully it will not take him too long to understand this but with a modicum of wisdom and commonsense he will soon Find this out.
Please Almighty God let the great cleansing begin..May one of his first orders of business be the closing and de-consecration of MHR…
“Most Holy Redeemer Parish, San Francisco, has assigned $60,000 of its parish income to tuition assistance for Catholic schools where children from the parish are or may be students. The schools are St. Finn Barr, St. James, St. Anthony-Immaculate Conception, St. Peter, St. Charles and St. Philip. This is the fourth year the parish has used money raised from rental of property it owns to assist students in nearby Catholic schools.” (July 10, 2012)
yeah, i can see why you want this church closed and deconsecrated…the people there don’t care about anyone else, obviously…
and they also have that TLM each day at 9:30 in the morning, another excellent reason to shut the place down…
you guys are such geniuses!
You just have to roll your eyes at the ignorant/reactionary retorts of some on this forum, Max. Sometimes it’s best to ignore people that read a flaming snippet about a place like MHRP and then scream for the closing and “de-consecration” of a Catholic parish that does a lot of good.
MHRP needs some reform (like MANY Catholic parishes.) It would be a shame to close it however, particularly based on ignorance and bigotry.
What are they being taught, Max? if it is not the truth and how to conduct oneself virtuously and morally what good is a so-called education. St. Joseph was “only” a lowly carpenter but high on the virtuous scale. One can be educated into imbecility if the “education” is wothless.. Let us hope they are receiving a good orthodox Catholic education or one can throw all the money in the world at it, and it will not do any good.
A correction: Make that “worthless”.
uh, ANNE T., these are just regular, hard-working catholic schools in some of the poorest neighborhoos of san francisco, most serving immigrnat families who are latino etc.
used to be irsh and italian.
the public schools in s.f. are not the best, so even many noncatholics choose our catholic schools where the ir children can get VALUES ans well as a good education.
There is no point to Catholic schools that teach false doctrine. Better use the money and effort elsewhere … say in teaching and preaching the Gospel.
Anne and JLS:
If you have a specific accusation of heterodoxy or misbehavior to make against these Catholic schools, why not just state clearly what it is?
If you have only a general concern about the schools’ orthodoxy or morality, maybe it would be best to do some research rather than making uninformed accusations or suggesting “Better use the money and effort elsewhere.” All these schools have web sites; it isn’t that hard to get some idea what their educational objectives are. I’m sure you’ll find something specifically progressive to hate there, if that’s what you’re looking for.
I find it offensive that you claim to be Catholic and yet you oppose a Catholic parish’s effort to support Catholic K-12 education, and you make unfounded accusations against the schools who accept the parish’s support. We already know that many comments here are anti-MHR because of the parish’s location in the Castro district. If you burn a lot of your energy hating homosexuality, that’s YOUR cross to bear. It isn’t fair to lay it on children who deserve a decent education.
Teaching and preaching only from the Gospel is a characteristic of Protestant bible colleges. I would never have inflicted that on my children. My Catholic education is anything but worthless, because it encompasses the whole of our tradition as well as the arts and sciences.
Francis, I have to admit that I homeschooled because our parish school was “not Catholic enough.” Eventually my son attended 4 Catholic schools: 1 with good academics but poor religious instruction; 1 with poor academics but good religious instruction; 1 with both academics and religious instruction so poor that we removed him from the school and 1 with good academics and good religious instruction. You can’t tell the difference on their websites. They all say the same types of things. So your point is correct. Also, the reason for the anti-MHR comments is not the location of the parish in the Castro district. It has to do with them allowing speakers that do not conform to Catholic beliefs and allowing a drag show in their parish hall. I think it is assumed by the people who post here that the pastors look the other way when they know that parishioners are in relationships that are sinful. The people who post here believe it is an act of mercy to admonish the sinner and they are correct.
Francis: Hating homosexuality is not a cross to bear but a source of strength
K, thank you for defending me. I did not read what Francis wrote to me before this.as I do not always have time to go back and read everything. You are quite right why I wrote what I did to Max. I only asked him what they were being taught and if it was according to Church teaching in such an area where some decadence has taken place in the church hall, and if they were not being taught correct teaching and Catholic morals sending them to that school would not be worth it. They could get the same thing in most public schools for free. Francis accused me falsely. And Frances, even devout Protestants can recognize hypocrisy when they see it, and it has kept many of them from entering the Church.
And Frances, that decadence was not just reported by converts but cradle Catholics. I first leanred about the behavior going on there from a cradle Catholic who is also in a third degree order not from this website or JLS.
oh gosh JLS what makes you think st. peter’s school in the mission district teaches “false doctrine?”
it’s not like some new age thing you may have experimented with before your dogs brought you into the true fold.
you just make stuff up, don’t you, like president bush used to make up funny words?
well, at least you add spicde to the mix in here, even if at times it like cayenne pepper on ice cream…
Unfortunately Bishop Cordileone is a paper tiger. Although he has a reputation as being strong on the “marriage” issue, he is not tough on homosexuality at all. Look at his acceptance of Fr. Jim Schexnayder’s book on how to homosexualize Catholic parishes, and how long it has taken him to take CALGM to task, even in a wimpy way…..The SF sodomites will be in a rage when this news hits the Castro, but it will be just for show. They can pretty much figure that it will be business as usual in the SF Archdiocese “gay” milieu. They know that the “marriage” issue is a false one – the real issue is the indoctrination of and homosexualizing of children. Nothing will stop them.
Marie, with God all things are possible. We must be a people of hope. Let’s pray for the new Archbishop for boldness and perseverence. God bless you!
Hope is an extremely important Catholic virtue. Some people need to take measures in their own lives to increase their level of hope.
Indeed, Marie. I have learned to hold my huzzahs until I start seeing concrete evidence of change. We have been so continually disappointed by Rome with appointments that it is the only prudent reaction to have.
Still, one can hope (and pray, and fast) that he wakes up and has the guts to take on these homosexually-disturbed monsters. They’re not exactly charitable when someone says “no” to them.
Fantastic news! DEO GRATIAS! St. Michael the Archangel, defend Bishop Cordileone in the battle. He’s going to need our constant prayers.
Thank God above! If there is any hope for the archdiocese, it rests on the strong shoulders of this fine man. Let us pray, and let us be of help and broad support to Bishop Cordileone as he works to save perhaps the most disordered diocese in the world. He will need our strong and carefully rendered support both in his work as as a mere human being who is about to have to deal with some of the angriest, rudest, and most aggressive creatures who claim to be Catholic that we have ever seen “grace” our aisles. Following Jesus Christ and helping others to do so as well are the most challenging and rewarding endeavors a Christian can undertake; the enormity of renewing and redirecting an entire archdiocese that has been plagued by blatantly hostile miscreants is beyond my ability to grasp. Fervent prayer and the ability to discern holy guidance from above will be required of all.
My husband and I spoke with Archbishop Salvatore Joseph Cordileone at the National Family Catholic conference. He gave us a blessing. He is certainty a very humble and holy gentleman. I pray for him because there will be a great spiritual battle, only if he truly does the will of God. We all need to keep his excellency in our prayers. We are forgetting that he is human too and the forces of evil are great.
PRAISE BE TO GOD!
GOD HEARD OUR PRAYERS AND SAID ‘YES’!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I HAVE BEEN PRAYING PERSONALLY FOR ABOUT A YEAR
FOR AN ORTHODOX NEW AB, WHO WILL ‘CLEAN HOUSE’ AND
HAVE NO TIES TO SAN FRANCISCO.
WE ALL NEED TO PRAY FOR OUR NEW AB, HE HAS QUITE A CHALLENGE BEFORE HIM.
THE TIMES…………THEY ARE A CHANGIN AS THE SONG SAYS.
LET US ALL ALSO CONTINUE TO PRAY FOR A NEW PRESIDENT.
bad news, LIZ: his father was BORN in san francisco.
but keep on yelling in ALL CAPS.
it’s so charming.
May God bless the Archdiocese of San Francisco during this happy time of transition!
However, the responses so far here on CCD make one wonder if the Church has always been so negative and cranky, even when good news comes — such as the appointment of a new Bishop.
I am very happy for our beloved Archbishop, George H. Niederauer, that he will be able to finally enjoy retirement after such a grueling assignment and after his health crises this past year.
I also am happy that our Archdiocese will get a young, energetic new Archbishop to lead the flock — even though he, too, gets attacked from the right and from the left. This seems to be the order of the day in the 21st century Church.
Our pastor sent us a nice email with a statement from Archbishop Niederauer and also from Archbishop-Elect Cordileone, and we look forward to welcoming him to the west side of the San Francisco Bay!
You’re right, the “negative and cranky” get mighty old after a while.
Matthew I agree and that begins with your comments to others
Oh MacDonald! Stop picking on those Catholics on the right and on the left. You consistently give yourself away. Oh where in the world would California Catholic Daily and their readers be without your consistent showings of lukewarmness? I see that you have placed a crown of superior arrogance upon yourself while you sit comfortably on your throne of lukewarm proclamations to the left and the to the right. MacDonald, God has a powerful proclamation for you in Revelation 3:16, “But because you are lukewarm, and neither cold not hot, I will vomit you out of my mouth.” MacDonald, I will agree with you though, about celebrating. How about welcoming Archbishop Cordileone by placing a large order of Chick-filet-A sandwiches and have them delivered throughout the Archdiocese on August 1, 2012.
Oh, Catherine, you give self-righteousness a bad name.
As for being tepid, you are certainly not in that category: your glacial superiority shines out from each of your posts.
For your information, we do indeed have nut-cases on the right and the left, and if anyone were in doubt about this basic reality, they would only have to wander into California Catholic Daily and read for about five minutes.
Now, go kneel in church and pray against others, or whatever it is that makes you happy.
MacDonald, You wrote, “Now go kneel in church and pray against others.” Shame on you MacDonald What Butler’s Lives of the Saints book did you take that quote from? No… I didn’t think so either. That terrible statement is well beneath the goodness that you are capable of showing. Please reflect on what little amount of discomfort it took for you it to completely fly off the handle to make such a chillingly hateful comment, that offends God.
You were told in one single solitary post that you sound lukewarm and you were quoted a Scripture passage on what happens to the lukewarm. You could dish it out MacDonald, to the left and to the right, yet when it came to *you* having to hear that you sound extremely lukewarm you could not take it. You lost control and exploded with anger. You, have shown so very little love and compassion for the faithful who have remained faithful throughout the church scandals and spiritual neglect. If one Scripture quote sends you into orbit, one can ONLY imagine how you would overreact if you had walked in the shoes of a victim of the sex abuse scandals. If faithful Catholics show disappointment or frustration for not only experiencing but witnessing over forty years of scandal and dissent, then they are considered nut-cases in your eyes.
MacDonald, You sound very much like Obama’s press secretary when placed under fire. He also snaps back with hateful comments when he is challenged with honest questions or facts. While the Justice Department and the economy are crumbling around him, he also likes to pretend as if everything in the White house is just a hunky dory happy :) transition time too. You forgot one thing MacDonald, while you were insulting fellow Catholics and dancing in the make- believe ballroom about the state of affairs within the church, you forgot that California Catholic Daily is also a No Spin Zone.
“Dancing in the make-believe ballroom” LOL
Catherine, for your information, I did not even bother to get angry when I read your post, because I have come to expect such extreme nonsense from you.
And by “nonsense” I mean that you imagine yourself speaking “ex cathedra” whenever you type, and you therefore chastise anyone who does not follow your agenda.
As for my comments “offending God,” you are not the judge of such things, especially given the vitriolic attacks you yourself make each day on others. You lash out at people who choose not to spout your crazed rhetoric, and then play the “helpless damsel in distress” act when you yourself are called on being such a pain in the neck.
Your constant complaints about others not “showing compassion” are transparent as glass, and they fool no one. If you are truly such a delicate blossom that you cannot take criticism of your posts, then take up knitting instead of posting.
As for me, I will not be silenced by your whining, because I know full well you are a forceful female, quite capable of the give and take that is part of CCD.
You fly into a rage when I refer to the nuttiness on the right AND the left, so let me help you understand:
— on the right: Hitler, Mussolini.
— on the left: Marx, Stalin.
Both extremes are still alive and well. Only the names have changed.
and good old CATHERINE delivers a smack-down from the right!
(what a surprise)
you, go, girl: now celebrate with those chicken sandwiches you seem to love!
We are so proud of you max. I know it wasn’t easy but you’ve done the right thing. Thank you again for encouraging all fellow Catholics to affirm a business that operates on Christian principles and where executives are willing to take a stand for Godly values by simply showing up and eating one of those delicious Chick-fil-A chicken sandwiches on Wednesday, August 1, 2012.
Good news max, so far your post has inspired over 279,000 Christians to RSVP to confirm that they will be dining at Chick-Fil-A ‘s and to affirm Christian values on August 1, 2012…. Bon Appetit!
p.s. CATHETRINE, i think the count is now up to 279,001…
Macdonald, you wrote “the responses here on CCD makes one wonder if the Church has always been so negative and cranky”. A prominent Catholic blogger recently wrote: “Never, ever make the mistake of thinking that the Church you encounter on line is like the Church of normal people you find in a Catholic parish. Cyber-Catholicism is a funhouse mirror of flesh-and-blood Catholicism.”
Anonymous writes, “Never, ever make the mistake of thinking that the Church you encounter on-line is like the Church of normal people you find in a Catholic parish” = Real Translation: “Darn that website California Catholic Daily. They are exposing the darkness and there seems to be no end in sight as to the amount of rocks that they are lifting up to expose the hidden darkness.”
Yes, without even realizing it, our Anonymous person is really paying a very great compliment to the tenacity of California Catholic Daily. Keep up the good work California Catholic Daily!
Please remember, one is never, ever, anonymous when dealing with Almighty God. With God all things are possible! Yes, even Pope Benedict XVI spoke about the wonderful evangelization tool of the internet and CCD is certainly to be commended for helping to spread the light of the Gospel! Only those who wish to remain in darkness would disagree with the Holy Father!. …”The people that walked in darkness, have seen a great light: to them that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, light is risen!…. Isaiah 9:2 Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible
“Only those who wish to remain in darkness would disagree with the Holy Father.” I totally agree with Catherine on that.
@Catherine, this is a website that has a story that is very sympatheric to gay marriage in the military. It even links to abc-the network that puts on the show “Modern Family” and the new show “The New Normal” about two gay men having a baby by a surrogate, not to mention the now-defunct “Good Christian B*….”
Way to evangelize!
MacD, how many times do you have to use words such as “cranky” and other wimpy sounding phrases? Get off your feel good meds for a few days and look around.
Well said, Mr. Cranky! heh heh
DANA, do your really see our dear old JLS as cranky?
i’d call him crotchedy.
sounds more eccentric.
but he doess love to have fun in here, contradciting everything everyone else says. keeps him young!
give me a break!
they said the very same thing when archbishop william levada became our ordinary here in san francisco, and had even nicknamed him “darth vader” because he was supposed to be so mean and strict and scary (and of course “vader” rhymes with “levada” when pronounced correctly); in fact, he himself made a joke about this nickname when he moved here.
however, a bishop is meant to be a spiritual father to his flock, not some nazi coming in to “clean house,” and this usually turns out to be the case, thanks be to GOD.
archbishop levada was very good for the archdiocese of san francisco, and i feel certain archbishop cordileone will be also.
when archbishop gomez, an opus dei priest, was made ordinary of los angeles, everyone screamed bloody murder, but he is turning out to be a fine shepherd of his people — unlike pope alexander vi made so fmaous by “the borgias.”
congratulations and best wishes to archbishop cordileone!
god bless archbishop niederauer, who finally gets to retire after being given such an exhausting assignment!
Wise words, Max.
Words that will be completely lost on many here. They honestly DO believe that an ordinary can start snapping-off orders and closing parishes and things magically become “better.”
What a naive and ignorant mindset to have…
Yes, Max, they are wise words. People, don’t hold your breath on the new Archbishop closing down Most Holy Redeemer Church. Trying to get rid of all the gay people in that parish would be like trying to get rid of all the black parishioners at a Catholic Church in Harlem. Most Holy Redeemer Church is a Catholic presence in the Castro District and it serves as a spiritual home for many. Archbishop Cordileone will be the Archbishop of all the Catholics in the San Francisco Archdiocese, not just those that look like him or think like him.
Why in the world would the bishop want to “get rid of all the gay people in that parish”?
Love the sinner, hate the sin.
Given the amount of money that apparently flows through the doors of MHR, I seriously doubt if the Abp elect will attempt to “get rid of the gay parishioners” who are the majority of that community. Other than that, I sit here biting my tongue over things that may be far more obvious to me than they are to some others commenting on this thread. It just doesn’t seem AT ALL in his best interest to “get rid of the gay parishioners” at MHR. Isn’t it ironic that MHR is probably one of the most vibrant, alive, and contributing parishes in The City in spite of the “rodents” and “lavender mafia” (thank you Dana) who make up that community?
Mark from PA: the job is to make everyone Holy, spiritually joyful and even gay, including the homosexuals that are NOT gay and save souls from the pits of hell, a job that you are also suppose to be doing. +JMJ+
I agree Mark. Jesus didn’t want any of His little little sheep to be lost. What a joy if all those people would experience true conversion, repent and return to the fold. What a day for rejoicing! But, all we like sheep have gone astray, and the emphasis must be on ‘returning’ and repenting. I heard someone say that the reason the little lamb we see Jesus holding had a broken leg…that it is traditional for shepherds to break the leg so they can’t wander off again. I can’t verify that, but it sounds reasonable. That’s why you see pictures of shepherds carrying a sheep on their shoulders. Maybe someone can google sheep, broken leg, shepherding preventatives for wandering sheep or something of that nature? ;o)
You know Matthew you are right , it years for the sodomites to occupy and destroy the Church from within, and it will take years to drive them out of the Church and purge the filth from it…May I live to see this happen
CANISIUS weren’t you th eone raised by sodomites, as you call them?
Correction: they were clipped haired man hating lesbians
max, God has often destroyed large numbers of people. So has Jesus; after all, do you suppose the Father sent the lightening bolt on Sodom or do you suppose He sent His Son to do the deed? Have you ever considered that God sent AIDS on your beloved gay community?
JLS you are always such a hoot when it comes to violence.
you remind me of a NEW YORKER cartoon that shows an angel going in to see GOD at his office, and asks the secretaqry: “is He in an old testament mood or a new t6estament mood today?”
but you, JLS, see GOD as the deity who delights in destroying, whether you look in the OT or the NT.
at least you are consistent…
The Pope has sent a strong message with this appointment. I’m sure that Cardinal Burke’s influence was immence. This is a good Bishop. He is a very smart person. And, he is very orthodox. He also has learned, while in the Diocese of Oakland, that you can’t take on every issue at one time. He is a good listener and a good assessor. He sets his priorities and moves ahead. Although we are all just Catholics, it is not an exageration to say that the most conservative Bishops was sent to the most liberal city in the country. This is going to be interesting! We wish him success, good luck and we pray for him. I have to assume that God knows what he is doing!
BOB, GOD knows what HE is doing, but as for the rest of us…who knows?
“Cardinal Burke?” If Burke was actually respected/trusted by the Pope he would be the archbishop of a large see here in the USA. Burke was “kicked upstairs” into an administrative role when he showed that he was too divisive and strident to lead an archdiocese.
Well, Matthew, that’s telling it like it is. When Archbishop Burke was in St. Louis, someone from there told me exactly that.
Matthew: what nonsense pours from your small head. Yes, it is sad that we lost Cardinal Burke to the Vatican, but where did you ever get that information that even Pope Benedict doesn’t have? Pope Benedict has great faith in this Cardinal. Seeing how you refuse to call Cardinal Burke by his proper title also shows that you have not been given a decent education on how to respect people. Shame on you!!! +JMJ+
Mathew, I don’t know you well, but that was really unkind and unjust, and it surprises me that you would say something like that about Cardinal Burke. Also, I think Pope Benedict gave him this important post because he has a big part in determining strategy and dealing with the huge “American Problem” that is reaching catastrophic proportions. Our president, in case no one has noticed , is trying to destroy not just religious freedom, but to weaken the very foundation of the Catholic Church in this country. A book is soon coming out on how the KGB has been underming our Church on many levels for many years. It isn’t paranoia or fantasy. It’s coming out of the KGB’s own files. And if you don’t know the relationship of the current occupier of the Whitehouse Anyway, for those of us who truly love Mother Church, (and I know you are one) we must be supportive of those who are trying to
Sorry, I pushed the wrong button…was typing outside under the trees. Anyway, scratch the last sentence as it became enmeshed with the first paragraph. Maybe it’s time I went back to what I should be doing. Just google obama and Frank Davis, as well as why his mother attended Mercer Island and the little red school on the hill. There’s much more but I’m off…too many ideas straining the ‘little grey cells’.
Matthew, stop bad mouthing Cardinal Burke. Your hatred of him is showing, and I am sure it not with good intent.
** I have to assume that God knows what he is doing!** Good assumption, Bob One; it shows that you have finally enrolled in a course on thinking. Don’t fret over the silly way your attempts come out at this stage; just keep working on it and you’ll get there some day.
Well said, Bob!
As near as I can tell, Bp. Cordileone has done almost nothing to clean up the Diocese of Oakland during his tenure here. (After all, isn’t Catholic Charities East Bay STILL paying for contraceptive coverage even though Bp. Cordileone publically acknowledged that he knew about this some time ago?) It’s beyond me why the Vatican would think he would be any more successful in a much larger and more prominent diocese with even more problems–this is really the Peter Principle writ large. Expect only more bureaucratic dithering. And as usual Rocco Palmo is more interested in currying favor with his bishop sources than objective reporting.
So, Dave N, who is coming in to the Oakland Diocese to take the throne there?
i think CATHERINE has applied for the job.
max, You are only confirming your shallow depth when it come to fidelity to Church teaching. max, You know very well that women cannot be priests. max, You are either for God or you are against God. There are no comedy clubs in heaven, especially when the comedian chooses to sound fun over choosing to be faithful.
Your last post reminds me of our Legion of Mary visits to the dying in the convalescent homes. One of the patients asked to see a priest so that she could go to confession before she died. The parish in the area that was responsible for this convalescent home was called. The priest told the volunteer workers to have the lady confess her sins to the volunteer workers. He said that old people in rest homes do not commit sin any more. Shame on you max, for joking about errors that are already happening.
Sin and disobedience to Our Lord and to the Holy Father is a widespread cancer within the Church. Do you also joke about the cancer of dying people on the internet too or just the Catholic Faith. Why have you compromised your own soul max?
i’m still voting for you, for the new bishop of oakland!
It’s nice to see the Holy See slowly overhauling the ecclesiastical leadership here in California and the rest of the USA. Gomez was a good choice for LA. Cordileone is a good choice for SF. Now if some of the dioceses get orthodox bishops we will continue on the road to true renewal.
Deo gratias! This is a time for optimism for the Church in the US.
Cordileone to San Francisco, Gomez to Los Angeles, Dolan to NY,
Chaput to Philadelphia. Pope Benedict thinks long-term for the
future of the Church. God bless him.
May the Lord bless and strengthen His servant, Absp. Cordileone. May Our Blessed Mother pray for him. This will not an easy task whatsoever. +JMJ+
It would be hard to criticize the Pope’s in-your-face appointment of BP Cordileone too S.F.’s homo infested regime, but I’m a little tired of everybody using Oakland Diocese as a swinging gate out to some greener pasture.
We have needed a thorough cleaning for decades and can’t seem to keep anyone for long enough to barely skim the surface.
Cordileone. We need one.
CAMILLE, it never sttruck me that archdibishop cordileon’es new appointment might be a slight to the diocese of oakland, but i see what you mean.
if you get a bishop and he leaves after only a couple of years for ‘a more important diocese,’ that would be a sad commentary and insult.
i wish archbishop cordileone well in his new appointment, but i also hope you folks in oakland get a good new bishop – and one that will stick around for a while!
Sorry about that. The Diocese of Oakand is the roadkill of the Church in the US. It is the absolute worst diocese in the country for orthodoxy. If you can maintain your faith there, you can maintain it anywhere. Bp C did the “Fort Apache in the Bronx” treatment there, keep the cathedral a bastion of sanity while the rest of the diocese was left to its wares.
It blows me away that an actual “Catholic would use the term “homo” in this context. It bothers me that CC.com would actually allow it to be posted.
Shame on your “Camille” and CC.com
Matthew, just what term would you use? Gay, I suppose, which is very wrong. Once again, SHAME ON YOU!! +JMJ+
Regarding Matthew’s 2:13pm comment:
Hear, hear! It is hard to believe that anyone could seriously listen to Our Lord’s commands and use words that way. “But we have to chastise the sinner!” I hear. There may come times when we are called to do so, but that comes in God’s time, and especially it comes AFTER love of enemies, AFTER prayer and AFTER we act like children of our Father in heaven. If at all! Jesus specifically rebukes those who get it backwards.
None of us are perfect and I’m no exception. But that’s no excuse for failure to listen and at least get the Gospel message in order.
You have heard that it was said, “Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.” But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, “Let me take the speck out of your eye,” when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
I was waiting for Francis to pull out the favorite line of liberals from the Bible.. There few paragraphs has given complete license to liberals to do and say anything their twisted minds can think of. No Francis I will accuse the legions of sodomites that have infected the Church I will burn their rainbow flags, I will be God’s wrath until they are tossed into the fires of Hell
Canisius, in answer to your 5:50am comment:
I’m not clear which of the two citations you call “the favorite line of liberals.” To me, they both seem very consistent with the other stories by and about Jesus. I suspect nearly any Gospel quotation would run afoul of your counter-liberal preferences.
So why do you think those verses are there?
Francis I am not surprise by your response this is what I was referring to: Let me take the speck out of your eye,” when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
Matthew 7:3-5… Liberals have used this passage so that no moral judgments can be made, about anything or anyone.. I on the other hand am able to make judgments on moral behavior, that is why liberals are complete moral cowards… BTW, here is my favorite passage from Our Divine Savior:
. Matthew 10:34 “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.” Oh how this must bother you liberals to no end., The war against liberals continues… if it could be a real physical one,,, I pray that one day it is
Now wait a minute. Most Holy Redeemer was there LONG before Eureka Valley became The Castro. And they don’t celebrate “gay masses” there; they celebrate the NO, a sometimes noisy one, and a daily TLM.
Legalistically of course, mhr is well within its rights … which are naturally unknown to anyone even God. But one should consider that the Church is not a legal entity, but a religious entity. And in this religious entity mhr has been found wanting. Maybe, however, the TLM was put there to see if it generates a change from the typical perversion characterizing that community to one with some note of holiness among the people there … sort of like a slow motion exorcism of the demons from the people into the pigs, who then would run away and drown in the bay, hopefully near Alcatraz.
I’ve thought it would never take long for CCD readers to tire of the work necessary to lead the Church in San Francisco, and indeed, Bishop Cordileone has no sooner been named to the job than writers are accusing him – of all people! – of being part of the rot. Well, be prepared to howl because problems generations in the making aren’t going to be cleaned up overnight, and the Bishop’s tactics are sure to infuriate CCD readers as much as they will MHR parishoners, if not more.
You mean Cordileone can’t just fire a bunch of people, threaten to excommunicate Pelosi (ala Burke) and close/”de-consecrate” some parishes to make the Archdiocese of SF all honky-dory? Really? ;)
You’re quite right. It took generations for the rot to take hold. It’s going to take some time and God’s grace to heal that archdiocese. SF has an extremely rich Catholic history. I am sure it’s more than recoverable.
Let’s see who moves up to the throne in Oakland. Don’t spose that the near future might see a total replacement of curmudgeon bishops replaced by true bishops. What is all the bishops in California were holy. Then what … well, for starters I’d say the result would be unimaginable … I’d almost say “unbelievable”, but faith dictates otherwise … a miracle can happen.
They just sent Patton to Normandy! Welcome, Archbishop Cordileone!
No, they haven’t. Cordileone is an archbishop, not a military commander.
Matthew, you should acquaint yourself with Catholic teaching … Ever heard the term “spiritual warfare”? Bishops are spiritual military leaders (the holy ones, that is). Have you ever run across the saying, “Church militant”? Just went and read some of the Battle of Lepanto. Lots of Church involvement in leadership of the military effort there.
Since Bishop Cordileone seems to have accepted the heterodoxy so prevalent at the Graduate Theological Union in Berkeley, I don’t think anyone in San Francisco has anything to fear from Archbishop Cordileone.
is hetero-doxy the opposite of gay-doxy?
just sayin’ . . .
no, max, gay-doxy is the opposite of God, as much as a creature can be.
GTU itself is not and never was a “big C” Catholic institution: It was founded as a Protestant ecumenical entity. I suppose the bishop might have authority to force Jesuit, Franciscan and Dominican schools to withdraw from the Union, but it’s hard to imagine what Good that would accomplish.
AMEN! AMEN! Praise God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. There couldn’t be a better choice for archbishop of Sodom by the Bay. We must pray daily for Bishop Cordileone; he will need our prayers. And praise to Pope Benedict XVI for his wisdom in choosing Bishop Cordileone.
“Sodom by the Bay?” That a horrible thing to call a beautiful city founded by Franciscan missionaries and named after St. Francis of Assisi.
Have you actually been to SF? Do you equate the entire city to the center of the Castro District based on the rants of losers like John Corapi? Do yourself a favor and actually visit SF. Visit some of the many stunning Catholic churches in the city.
Take the time to actually visit the cathedral rather than just joining in on the “St. Mary Maytag” mantra. Do that and you might just stop making a jerk out of yourself with comments like “Sodom by the Bay.”
Matthew, do you distinguish sentiment from reality? San Francisco is holy in name only, and other than that is a quagmire of evil. The Church is sent there to save those who call out to God for help.
Apparently JLS examined every Catholic and Orthodox church, plus he served food at the soup kitchens, examined the programs at Delancey Street, the parks and beaches. He sat in on some Theology classes at USF and listened to every program of the Archbishop’s radio hour. He watched the sun set into the Pacific and for good measure listened to the SF State’s Gospel Choir signing yet still he found nothing but a “quagmire of evil.”
Says a lot about JLS’s abilities as an investigator.
JLS would not have caled san francisco a quagmire of evil if he had visited fort funston where you can let your dogs roam to their heartss content.
and crissy field.
although THAT name is probably too girlie for JLSD…
Matthew, get a grip on yourself!! What was is not the same as what is. Remember that the Jesuits were truly Catholic, the Catholic schools were truly Catholic, the Nun were real Nuns and truly Catholic. Homosexuals stayed in their closets, the immigrants that helped this nation to become great, became Americans, unlike what we are seeing nowadays. Cape Cod in Mass. was a great family place, but, not anymore. Read Isaiah’s prophecy of the Day of the Lord that will happen very soon, it is in Chapter 13 verses 6-13, and why will it happen? Because of Sodom by the Bay for starters. +JMJ+
When you DO get a grip on yourself, continue reading the next chapter of Isaiah: The Lord will have compassion on Jacob; once again he will choose Israel and will settle them in their own land. Aliens will join them and unite with the house of Jacob.
Also, it might help matters to understand that “prophecy” does not mean “magical fortune telling” and “Babylon” does not mean “whomever the reader fears or dislikes.”
I specifically take exception to Sarah’s comment regarding my Patron Saint’s city.
He’s our new Shepherd! Praise the Lord. Pro Life, Pro Marriage and Pro NFP!!!!!!
I am very happy, that was the best choice ! God bless and protect you Absp Cordileone !
We must pray for Archbishop Cordileone that his tenure will be a success. I concur with many observers here at CCD that his appointment is clearly a message from Rome that it’s time to “crack heads” in an Archdiocese that is deeply troubled, fractured, and has steadily lost lay members for decades. I am not confident that harsh treatment of all concerned in the SF Archdiocese will fill the pews again, but we must hope and pray that the new Archbishop will use his gifts to unite, heal and lead in a way that reaches out to people instead of closing doors. I know so many fallen away Catholics that are deeply hurt by the Church’s many problems and issues and getting those folks back won’t happen in a punitive environment of fire and brimstone. Is Cordileone up to that challange? We shall see…..
Not likely to be much of a difference. B. Cordileone did little to change the awful drift of the Church in Oakland (but he did come out strongly against even genuflecting before receiving communion). In fact, he is a Company Man, as almost all bishops are Company Men. The good bishop is meant to be conservative cover, but not to rock the already overturned boat in SF. There are priests and bishops that would have meant something to head SF, but not Cordileone.
good old CHRIS, always so chipper!
perhaps if you had been more vocal in your commands to the pope, he would have sent the bishiop YOU wanted…
“Max”: Bishops Sample (Marquette, MI) and Morlino (Madison, WI) would have been good choices. SF needs to be brought to the Faith, and by the few bishops that understand the Faith, including the central position of Tradition in the Catholic Church. Turn your sarcasm toward learning more the Faith, and why things are so dreadful in SF. In particular, the ordinary of SF needs to introduce the concept of homosexual behavior as always sinful, a step of true courage in a society that is soaked in the rhetoric of homosexual marriage interest groups. Look at the attack brought on against Chick-fil-A due to its executive stating that its owners believe in traditional, that is Judeo-Christian, marriage of one man and one woman. The SF leader needs to take on the City’s sinful mindset on this entire area. Cordileone is not likely the man to do this. The Vatican is badly advised on its awful recent run of bishop choices, which puts of the day of reckoning, and at a truly terrible cost.
CHRIS, you really need to straighten out the pope then because he obviosuly needs your great insights.
try writing in german to get hisa attention quicker.
i’ve really gotta google this chick-filler sandwich you and CATHERINE keep snacking on, and find out what you guys are into…
Max, I have read several of your posts and it would be better to pay more attention to spelling. But more importantly, your remarks about those who support Chick-fil-A makes me wonder if you support gay “marriage”. I hope you do not because it will never be accepted by Christ nor His church. Those who willfully disobey the teaching that homosexuality is mortally sinful put the eternity of their souls in grave danger.
I just about came out of my chair when reading the headline! This is terrific news. I am in the Oakland Diocese under Archbishop Cordileone and will miss this wonderful shepherd. However, SF REALLY needs someone to clean the filth out of that city, and I think this is the man to do it. Thanks be to God !!!!!!
maybe he’ll clean the “filth” out of san francisco by sending it over to your place in oakland…?
God bless Pope Benedict XVI!
Even “Botox Nancy’s” face registered shock and fear over this appointment… We all need to pray for his success in this most challenging assignment.
Now if Bishop Cordileone could convert Nancy Pelosi into a pro-life Catholic that would really be something. Let’s see him convince her to take part in the next March for Life in Washington. Wouldn’t that be something!
If she could do it in heels with a martini glass and a flask of spare vermouth, you might be able to convince her,Mark. But you had better have a rickshaw on hand when she tires, with people to man fans on either side and perhaps some little girls to strew rose petal in her wake. I don’t know, Mark, you might not see her anytime soon at a Prolife march, but stranger things have happened.
Let’s not speak too soon. Remember the appointment of Archbishop Gomez in Los Angeles? Opus Dei. The world sees him as conservative. Yet he’s done absolutely nothing for traditional Catholicism in Los Angeles.
How about aditional prayers for Oakland!
I checked out the issue of Catholic Charities of the East Bay health insurance coverage. The Supreme Court of the State of California issued a ruling a few years ago that said that CCEB did not qualify as a religious organization under the definitions of the health insurance laws. Look it up on the internet. I understand that the Diocese is looking for ways to provide insurance for its employees that meets church requirements and also meets the letter of the law. The same criteria for defining a religious organization that is used in California is the one in the HHH mandate at the federal level. Hopefully the federal HHH manadate will be overturned, and then a lot of things will be settled. At the present time, many organizations have to offer available plans or none at all. An agency with no health insurance for employees will not attract many workers, no matter how dedicated to the mission.
Are prayers answered, or what?
We need to begin today to have Masses offered for Bishop Cordileone, pray a rosary a day for him, and sacrifice. This bishop will have all the powers of hell arrayed against him. May Our Lady’s mantle be wrapped around him as he begins this most difficult assignment.
After reading the many comments one would think that GOD HIMSELF was appointed to the Metropolitan See of San Francisco! I am sure that the new Archbishop is a man of goodwill as were the fine men prior to his appointment. My concern is that the appointment has been or will be co-opted by the obnoxious far right wing! As a native San Franciscan and a resident of the great City & County of San Francisco I pray for only the best for our new Archbishop!! The Archbishop’s success is predicated upon how he can balance the extremes, the far right and the far left in this complex see. He need not concern himself with the moderates of the Archdiocese for they have been blessed with religious common sense! The JESUITS assisted in the education of the Archbishop so he knows how to think critically and with sound objectivity, hence, open to the gifts of the MOST HOLY SPIRIT! The Archbishop’s father was born in The City & County of San Francisco, that can only be a blessing from the Lord!!! I pray for ono the best for the new Archbishop!!
TEM, where a holy bishop is, there is God.
I suppose it were too much to hope for that the Archbishop might begin with the suppression of the Jesuits, but then again his name is Cordileone…….
Lionheart? How does that preclude that he won’t do anything about the Jesuits. And maybe they will clean up themselves. Look how St.Therese of Avilla cleanup the Carmelite order. Isn’t Fr. Spitzer a Jesuit?
Meaningful dialogue on your post really isn’t possible until you define your terms a little more clearly. Just who is “the obnoxious far right wing”? If that means people who believe in the moral law and the teachings of the Church–and who believe those who publicly represent the Church must uphold its teachings–than I certainly hope the new AB disappoints you. His job is not to “balance the extremes,” but to bring the wayward archdiocese back to its moorings. Hopefully that would start with the public excommunication of Congresswoman Pelosi. It must include the removal of pastors and priests who insist upon celebrating homosexuality rather than labeling it for what it is–a corrupting and addictive moral evil which ruins bodies and souls. This man’s job is nothing less than to enter the coliseum and introduce the Christians to the lions. I don’t envy him!
Earth to Thomas MIles. This wasn’t a political appointment. We do not have a far right or a far left in the Church. What we have are orthodoxy and heterodoxy. What we have are committed followers who believe in the teachings and traditions of the Church, in the infallible truth of the Bible, In our Pope and the Magisterium as opposed to those who do not and are commonly called heretics or schismatics. Take your pick sir and line yourself up with whatever side you choose. There are only TWO choices. Period. If you can’t accept that, you’ve pretty much shown your colors and they are legion. Also, forgive me but I just can’t help but tell you that you are such a snob. I don’t think the fact that your part of some San Francisco aristocracy has the least power to impress anyone who contributes here…au contraire. Or better yet, to the contrary!
In God’s Church, we don’t have a “far-right, nor a far-left” as we don’t fit into the media’s terminology. We are either Right with God, which makes us wrong with the world, or we are wrong with God and right with the devil. Stop your prattle! +JMJ+
The so called obnoxious far right is far better than the perverted sodomite left.
Canisius .. Do you have any idea what the Sodom story is about .. and do you know the list of things for which Sodom was destroyed (see Ezekiel 6:49, 50). Without going into detail since that is not the purpose of this thread, the destruction of Sodom had nothing whatsoever to do with homosexuality. You err in thinking of the left as “sodomites”.
I would agree that few leftists are sodomites; after all, only perhaps 2% of the population is homosexual.
A great many leftists regard sodomy as a particularly useful means by which to pervert the law into a tool to be used against believers, and, in the extraordinary case of same-sex “marriage”, especially against children.
Rick are you correct, I think that the left is actually in some kind of perverted mentality, I can almost bet, that they support porn too.
Mr. Byrd: Ah yes the liberal fable that the residents were not “hospitable” complete and total liberal revision, its not surprising coming from a member of sect that has been overridden with sodomites. If I am so wrong about the left and sodomites, then tell me why the political left supporters sodomite rights with exception
Since you seem to have no idea what a Sodomite is, and since your obsession with homosexuality (which you igorantly seem to equate with being a “Sodomite” …. see Ezekiel 16:49,50) is FAR more revealing about you than I think you might wish, it’s a waste of my time to attempt any kind of discussion with you. Suffice it to say that the closet is a very dark and painful place to live.
Canisius … Why don’t we get our Catholic bibles out and look at that passage of scripture .. it has nothing to do with “total liberal revision” … what does that scripture say the sin of Sodom was? Inhospitality is a simplistic way of saying the same thing, I agree .. however take a good look at the list, and you tell me where homosexuality and the term ‘Sodomite” fit together? IF you think to use the “abominations” phrase in verse 50, we can have a deeper discussion re; translation of Hebrew,but i think you are fighting your own demons more than trying to gain an upper hand with me.
See how writers St Christopher and Shelia, above, who are both from Bishop Cordelione’s diocese ,have opposite views on him. Who to believe?
I’d like to think Shelia but would put my money on St. Christopher as true Bishop’s are a rare commodity.
San Francisco does not need our Bishop, it needs a saint.
Saints are made, not born; San Francisco now has the task before it of making a Saint out of Bishop C.
Amen. We must pray for him to have the strength to steer the archdiocese in the direction of Catholic truth. Mere orthodoxy. Since when did it become scandalous to teach what the church has always taught and what is clear in the Bible? (this said by an ex-feminist, ex-hindu cult member, revert to the Catholic faith who LOVES OBEDIENCE the the church!)
No prayer is fruitless if we do not ask amiss.
His Grace, is a prince of the Church. He represents the thought of Rome against, clear issues concerning natural and supernatural inconsistencies raised.
His authority serves the purpose of God and the Church of all times regarding such matters in question.
My prayers are one with His intentions to guide his flock according to the mind of the God of Sacred and living Tradition.
The remedy is, Courage and doctrine as the best form of charity.
So San Francisco now has one just man. Nine more to go…
I work in a profession that deals regularly and closely with people who have spent their lives being faithful Catholics. The fact that the faithful are fleeing the fold most fervently should give the RCC pause .. or perhaps they have enough business ventures and real estate holdings that having the pews occupied each Sunday is considered a matter of little consequence. The wonderful thing for San Franciscans is that there are so many other options available for them, including the Episcopal Church among others. It just seems so odd to me that a church whose clergy and religious have such a high number of gay and lesbian men and women, would have one of the strongest anti gay voices in the world.
Please be completely assured that the number of people occupying the pews will be in direct proportion to the purity, clarity, and forthrightness with which the Faith is presented, under the leadership of ++ Cordileone.
He is far better than most of the US bishops, and who knows?
Now that things have really started to get bad, and the gay fascism movement has now progressed to an attempt to interfere with the First Amendment rights of not only Catholics, but business owners…..
His Grace Archbishop Cordileone may surprise us and live up to his name.
When the Catholic Church pays taxes to the United States Government, we can talk about it’s rights to interfere with government an lawmaking. Until then .. it’s decisions and rather incongruent stands on moral issues are no concern of anyone but those who choose to remain among it’s constituents. The people I know .. and they are many .. are not leaving the RCC because they are too liberal thinking for the Church. They are leaving because of the utter moral decay of the church, from the top down . and because they realize how very little they are valued. I have no horse in this race … I am not Catholic, nor under this present fundamentalistic regime would I ever be.
Ah. A non-Catholic helpfully suggesting how Catholics can better please him.
By denying the Faith, it always turns out,,,,,,
Rick .. what faith am I denying? Are you defending something that I am unable to defend? As I have repeatedly said, I am not antiCatholic .. but apparently I am anti something that you wish to defend.
“Rick .. what faith am I denying?”
>> The Catholic Faith, which teaches infallibly concerning Faith and morals.
“Are you defending something that I am unable to defend?”
“As I have repeatedly said, I am not antiCatholic ..”
>> Just anti-Catholicism.
“but apparently I am anti something that you wish to defend.”
His Grace? What are you, Anglican? In about a year he will be raised to His Holiness in the minds of the most of the posters here.
His Grace – a servant of the servants of God?
His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI, Servant of the servants of God, has raised His Grace Archbishop Cordileone to his present office.
I expect that His Grace will one day not too far off be created Cardinal by His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI, Servant of the servants of God.
His Eminence Cardinal Cordileone.
Has a nice ring to it.
Address an Archbishop.
During a formal introduction, an Archbishop should be introduced as “His Grace, the Archbishop of (Location).” He should be directly addressed as “Your Grace” or “Archbishop (Last Name),” – or, on paper, as “His Grace, The Most Reverend (First Name Middle Initial Last Name), S.T.D. Archbishop of (Location)” or “His Grace, The Most Reverend Bishop (First and Last Name) of (Location).”
Note that, as with a Bishop, you should stand when he enters a room (until he invites you to sit) and again when he leaves it.
Remove your hat in his presence and kiss the sacred ring during both the greeting and the closing. If he is your own Archbishop, you can kneel when kissing the ring (though bowing at the waist is also acceptable); however, do not do either if the Pope is present.
(it’s so fun to search the internett!) :)
It’s called infilltration into the ranks, Will. Apparently, under Cardinal Barnadin (Spell.?) a flagrant homosexual, admitted many many of similar persuasion into the Church and they’ve been busy little bees forming little cells with dirty little secrets and scandal and lies and…well, you get my drift. Apparently Fr. Richard John Neuhaus, founder of First Things magazine felt it was a huge problem and many exposee’s are coming out now on line. Google the Lavender mafia from such sources as New Oxford Review and Catholic Culture. Perhaps shining light on these rodents that have thrived in dardness for decades will rout them out. It simply must stop. Now!
Forgive all the typos. That was darkness. They have thrived in darkness. I take the blame for all my typos. It is not the fault of my typing instructress, the ever vigilant Mrs. Welker, a woman of keen eyesight and the highest standards of dancing fingers across the keyboards, with lots of finger plies and thumb jetes.
Dana .. It would help me to know who you are talking about with your vile accusation if you could perhaps spell his name? How very unfortunate that you choose to express your Catholic witness by using terms such as “rodents”, “Lavender Mafia” and such. The Lord who I serve and love as an Episcopalian AND as a gay man would never use such terms in referring to others. You have exposed your heart, and it’s sad to see.
Will, of course I do not think you or anyone is a rodent, per se. What I should have written was,”like rodents doing activities and works in the power of darkness.” Most assuredly you are all men created in the image of God, and I should not have sounded so derogatory. As for Cardinal Bernadin, it is pretty much common knowledge of his activities and he was really a very scary guy, but loved by the secular culture of death. Bill Clinton gave him a big award as you will see when you google his name. There are countless substantiated stories on this man. As for my use of the use lavender mafia, it’s a term I didn’ t make up,but again there is much evidence that there is a very active cadre of people deliberately and consistently working against Mother Church in myriad ways, establishing one another in pivotal positions to bring themselves corrupt and defile Church teachings and probably that they can finally have their own man as pope. How that term offends you, especially since you’re not even Catholic, is rather ironic. I think more than likely you’re being deliberately specious and obtuse to make me sound like some mean-spirited bigot, while you, alas, kind and charitable you, are soooo hurt and offended. You may deceive others but as Catherine so brilliantly said, this site is a no-spin zone and you can save the letters on your keyboard to spout such balderdash. You’ve exposed your heart and you have none except when you’re all sensibility about your own sense of ill-usage. For the majority of us here, having homosexuals posing as priests and followers of Christ is the same thing as Benedict Arnold pretending to be an ardent patriot and we all know how the world views him now. These men are liars and cheats and scoundrels and they must be routed out, exposed and let them become left-wing political hacks where they belong. I hope this reply doesn’t make you toooooooooo sad, poor darling. I’m sure you’ll perk up soon with a latte and a gossip with friends. Seeing what a total disaster from the assault and depredations on the Episcopal church that has been done by a segment of society that shall remain nameless, I would think even you could see the irony of pretending that homosexuality doesn’t hurt a church. You are shameless. Not you, Will, but YOU as in a group that chooses to play the victims in this melodrama. And to have the audacity to tell me you love and serve this church when it’s become a broken, discarded heap of broken vows, makes me utterly repelled, though I have no doubt if I met you, I would find you very likeable. I’m putting you on my prayer list, and please pray for me. We are all supposed to help one another find our way into heaven, and I really want to meet you there!
Dana, Excellent response! We will always have Our Lord’s promise. The gates of hell shall not prevail against the army of the Lord. This does not mean that there will be not be suffering during the great trial. Battle lines will be clearer.
Our Lady of Akita requested mankind to turn away from sin. Look at the sad evidence on this website that many will always prefer sin over God. When you truly love souls, as Our Lady does, you do not want the loss of even one soul. This is especially true for Our Lady’s beloved priests who Our Lady said have compromised the faith. We are either for God or against Him! O Mary conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee. “In the End My Immaculate Heart Will Triumph.”
Dana, your post doesn’t make me tooo sad at all. For anyone here who does have a heart of Christ, they more clearly see you for what you really are, and I will leave it at that. I look earnestly through your words to see Christ .. and there is nothing whatsoever representative of Him or anything he ever stood for. I don’t take pride in having brought forth this very dark and certainly unChristlike part of your character, but we are what we are, aren’t we? You don’t hurt or make me sad .. you do perplex me, however, in how you somehow see your words as honoring Christ or even your church. It’s always bee my experience with fundamentalists that in their attempts to defend what they are .. they end up exposing something of themselves that I’m not sure they ever intended. There is no point in us discussing this any further, however I can recommend some fine and well respected Catholic writers and speakers who could help you as you continue to attempt sorting out your faith.
Dana, Cardinal Joseph Bernardin, may have been gay, but he was also a holy man and was loved and respected by many. He was a strong defender of human life and human dignity. May he rest in peace.
Will Byrd: your so-called “fact” is the usual lie. As so many college people that are drug-induced and doing their own thing instead of Gods, are leaving ALL Christian churches, with the exception of the feel-good, do-your-own thing type of churches. We can blame the nuns for quitting their jobs of teaching our children, taking off their habits and going out into the world doing their own things. Your mistake of using the word Gay is insulting to all normal people that have Gay as their name or part of their name and your false lies about the Priests and good sisters are an insult to God. The Church, that is following the Bible and Jesus are against ALL sin, including LIARS, each and every sexual sins and all sins that go against the 10 Commandments. You are also lying when you say that the people have other choices about what churches that they can go to as the Roman Catholic Church is the One and Only True Church that God wants us to follow. +JMJ+
JMJ .. I won’t go into who was the origional church from which the Roman church split because that isn’t the discussion here. I will say, however, that your error in assuming that it is college people who are drug induced and leaving ALL Christian churches is mind boggling. At the same time, I suppose if I were in your shoes I would be just as defensive and accusatory. My own experience with Nuns is of very Godly women who have inspired me to commit my own life to Christ and to live as His presence in this world. I don’t know the Nuns of which you speak with such disrespect and hatred. I have many wonderful Catholic friends, and I am profoundly grateful for the witness of their lives … unlike the bitter, angry and defensive manner with which you have addressed me.
“I won’t go into who was the origional church from which the Roman church split because that isn’t the discussion here.”
Well, we certainly can establish conclusively it wasn’t the Piskies :-)
Rick, I assume that you are unable to spell Episcopalian, but that’s okay, I understand ghetto. Actually it was the Eastern Orthodox, but as I said, this isn’t the discussion about that, and there is no point in going off in that direction here.
You joined the Piskies, even though you figure the True Church is the Eastern Orthodox.
JMJ and others who have replied to Will,
You are wasting your keyboard. Anyone who recommends the Episcopal Church, with it’s pro-homosexual teachings, as an alternative to the Catholic Church cannot be taken seriously. To him, the most important aspect of a church is that it is sweet.
Nothing will change. The Church gave up any moral authority a long time ago. No priest or bishop or pope has the fortitude to stand up to the perpetrators of moral decay. The war is lost. May Christ return soon.
John, like Willbyrd, you make some sort of fantasy image of the Church. See my comment to him and then pray God open your eyes. The Church is a collection of individual people, not some idea somewhere. Contrary to your anti-Catholic hype based on either simple ignorance or shear stupidity, you claim that no priest or bishop dare stand up to evil men. Are you trying to impress a dandelion on your lawn or what? Why don’t you open your Bible to the page where they have the word, “wisdom”, and study it for a few years while keeping your words to things that make you look better?
Good grief, John, the war was won two thousand years ago. Didn’t anyone tell you? A quick synopsis can be seen in “The Passion”, and that wonderful scene where satan realizes he’s been utterly routed. Yeah! These are the daily battles being fought, and what you’re seeing is that many on our side are weak defeatists and ought to be court-martialed ar at least sent back to training school. Do you really want to meet Jesus now? He’s going to ask you what you’ve done to serve Him. Are you going to reply “Well, there was nothing I could do, there were just too many of them, and too few of us. It was all the fault of the pope and bishops. It wasn’t my fault!” Good luck with that John, for there is no opting out, and no room for defeatism. We must all play our part in whatever way we can. We need you John. You can be praying, and hoping and encouraging. If you’re just going to whine, get out of the way.
John, you are a messenger from the devil. The war is not lost, it has only begun and with your attitude, you don’t want Jesus to come soon, because as Isaiah has already told us in Chapter 13:6-13, The Day of The Lord is near and it will be a cruel day. +JMJ+
John .. you are a beloved son of God .. don’t be discouraged by the anger and name calling. God calls you beloved son, and that is what you are. Jesus would never condemn or speak of you with such vitriole. Be blessed!
Dear John .. take heart. God has not lost the battle whatsoever, in spite of businessmen/politicians posing as Clergy. I have gotten discouraged myself from time to time and then I remember His words . “Be Still and know that I AM God”. Whatever moral authority that has been forfeited by the Church of Rome .. God is faithful and unchanging. I encourage you to BE the change we seek in this world. Let your life be the witness of His presence. Blessings!!
John, Jesus came not to change nothing, but to change souls.
If Cordileone is such a macho Catholic, where is his track record?
I can’t believe that anyone here is getting sucked into the spin of this gullible blog. So Cordileone is slightly more conservative than Schexnayder, so what? What a bunch of dialectical manipulation.
Anyone remember who was supposed to be the “panzer Pope,” the big “conservative” hope? You know, the one “subsisting in” the Chair of Peter who put the likes of Levada and Mueller in charge of Doctrine.
The Diocese of Oakland went through this charade in 2001. Outgoing Cummins was replaced by another great conservative hope, Vigneron. Did one thing change? One little tiny thing? No!
Cath News Agency had an article with comments from and about Bishop Cordileone. I was struck by phrases referring to him in the article: “intercultural ministry and work with immigrants”, “cultural diversity task force”, “cultural debates”, “a more just society”, “cultural diversity”, “cultural factors”, “foundational philosophical issues about the nature of the human person and the purpose of sexuality”, “praised a recent executive order by President Barack Obama which effectively puts the DREAM Act into effect”, “allowing residency for many immigrants who had illegally entered”, “just immigration reform”, “comprehensive immigration reform”, and my absolute favorite “we will, together, be able to further the New Evangelization”. What the heck does that mean, “New Evangelization”? Since the new Archbishop didn’t mention teaching the CCC, the 10 Commandments, the Precepts of the Church, etc, I don’t no why anyone would be upset about his appointment. “New Evangelization”? HUH?
‘Archbishop Cordileone will be the Archbishop of all the Catholics in the San Francisco Archdiocese, not just those that look like him or think like him’
‘Nothing will change. The Church gave up any moral authority a long time ago.’
18 And I also say unto thee, that thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of Hades shall NOT prevail against it.
Saint Mattew 16, 18.
As I recall, when Bishop Cordileone was in San Diego, he went out to abortion mills to protest the killing of unborn babies–a man of action, not just words!!
This is GREAT!!! God bless the people of S.F. What a joyous day for you to have such an exceptional man at the helm of the Church in San Francisco. May St. Francis and all the saints protect and pray for the new Abp. Cordileone. But he certainly will have his hands full. However, he seems like the kind of guy that will stop at nothing in defending the truth and spark a fire in the Church of San Francisco. I liken this to Lincoln naming Grant to head the Army of the Potomac. The Leftist radicals and their perverse agendas will have a real donnybrook on their hands in a man who will never back down from defending the truth. People of San Francisco, please pray for this good, holy and orthodox Archbishop. He’s going to need it. With the weapon of the Rosary the city will be converted back to the truth. In the end Mary’s Immaculate Heart will triumph. And that’s a promise we can be the house on.
[…] Bombshell Appointment: Bishop Cordileone to head Archdiocese of San Francisco (California Catholic Daily) […]
I’m thrilled that SF is getting Cordileone but I agree with many of the posters here that there is so much work to be done in Oakland and using it as a temporary training ground for upwardly mobile prelates is not very fair to the people of Oakland. There is so much that needs to be accomplished, particularly cleaning up the Newman Center and the Jesuit School of Theology, which has many good professors and priests in formation but is also home to dissident nuns who mock the pope in emails and snipe at Cardinal Burke as looking like Mrs Doubtfire. Not to mention the layMdivs who add honey to the Eucharistic bread and find every way possible to ignore the GIRM. Not joking, when cornered about the adding of honey to the Eucharist the layMdiv who was running the liturgy stated: “that’s my way of giving Rome the middle finger.” And this place grants Pontifical Degrees?
From what I”ve been reading about our dear German Shepherd, may he live for many years!!, he’s working on that, Berkcatholic. He feels really passionately about purity of Church teaching in the seminaries and universities and there are moves afoot to make professors have to sign on the line that they will adhere to Catholic dogma, just as some churches have started doing with their Christian ed people. The wheels of God may move slowly but they grind very fine, right? Those nests really need a good airing out. What the heck are aetheists and communists doing teaching in Catholic schools anyway? Since when are Catholics called to be ‘broad minded’ which is nothing more than a euphemism for heterodoxy and confusion. Frankly, I don’t find aetheism in the least intelligent or sensible. Who needs such absurd points of view taught to Catholic students unless it is taught as what can happen when you lack common sense or logic. Throw the bums out, I say. I had some professors that were so absurd and when they tried twisting the minds of my fellow students, I took out my handy dandy (if miniscule) pocket of those two items (logic & common sense) and they not only backed off, they avoided me throughout the semesters. Unlike St. Francis, my behavior has never been my favorite mode of teaching,(as it would never have passed muster) but at least I didn’t succumb to letting myself get brainwashed. That story about honey in the Eucharist makes me sick!
If I don’t ask, I will never know. Honey in the Eucharistic bread. Please clarify what is the problem with honey in the Eucharist? This sounds like a major problem, and I’m not sure I understand why? In my thinking a host is a host is a host . but apparently not.
The transubstantiation of bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Christ, and its consequent re-presentation to the Father on the altar of the sacrifice of Christ on the cross does not occur if the materials to be consecrated contain (canonically) illegal ingredients. Someone more well-informed than me will have to say whether honey in the bread invalidates the consecration. I suspect it may. I do know that only grape wine can be used for the Precious Blood. If you try to use, for example, Japanese rice wine (sake), the transubstantiation into the Blood of Christ will not happen.
i wish i had paid more attention in chemisty class now…
Max .. far more important your faith that receives the body and blood of Christ, whatever recipe was used to bake the hosts.
Yes, adding honey to the bread makes it illicit. A sacrament has to have both proper substance and form. In baptism water is the substance and “I baptize you in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit” are the proper words or form. In the Eucharist unleavened wheat bread (nothing added) is the proper substance and the words of consecration are the proper form. The proper substance for the wine is that it is made only from natural grapes. If a wine is used that is 50% grapes and 50% added sugar then it is illicit. A priest has to consecrate both bread and wine in order for the Mass to be licit.
Thank you .. that helps me understand the RCC view re: Eucharistic bread and wine.
General Instruction of the Roman Missal:
“319. Following the example of Christ, the Church has always used bread and wine with water to celebrate the Lord’s Supper.”
>> The answer as to “why” is always the same.
Because that’s how Christ did it, and He taught His Apostles to do it, who taught their disciples to do it, and so on.
“320. The bread for celebrating the Eucharist must be made only from wheat, must be recently baked, and, according to the ancient tradition of the Latin Church, must be unleavened.”
>> No honey there, so if you are enjoying sticky buns some fine morning it is absolutely certain it is not the Eucharist,. even if some large hearted fellow in an ecclesiastical robe has insisted it is.
thank both of you. Funny how the Orthodox, Roman and Anglican Churches all believe in real presence .. and yet all will say exactly as you just said .. yet all do it using different materials or hosts. I won’t argue with you .. it’s according to our faith that the wine and bread become real presence, so I don’t see why it would matter if it’s one sort or another. AND by the way, those little white hosts . may be wheat but they aren’t whole wheat.
You don’t see how out would matter?
But of course not.
You don’t believe the Catholic Faith.
But we do, and so we appear, alas, to be at loggerheads :-)
“it’s according to our faith that the wine and bread become real presence” so I don’t see why it would matter if it’s one sort or another.”
>> But Jesus saw why it would matter, and, all due respect, we could not possibly care less about your contrary views on the question.
“AND by the way, those little white hosts . may be wheat but they aren’t whole wheat.”
>> Gosh, you just rocked my world with *that* one……
Excellent comments Rick!
give the poior man (archbishop cordileone) a chance!
he hasn’t even moved to his new digs, and already people are screaming bloody murder about his elleged sins of ommision.
when i become pope, i know you will ALL be much more supportive and loving.
(but i’ll have to work on my typing skills so my enclyclicals don’t sayi “goddess” instead of “GOD” and suchlike…)
Hard to imagine a better appointment. Thank you Holy Father.
On September 5, 2011, the Diocese of Oakland’s official newspaper The Catholic Voice, carried a promotion and ad for homosexual Father James A. Schexnayder’s new book Setting the Table: Preparing Catholic Parishes to Welcome Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender People and Their Families. The staff report titled “New book aids parishes in ministering to gays,” stated that “The book manuscript was read by Bishop Salvatore J. Cordileone, who made suggestions which Father Schexnayder followed.” As I pointed out in my book review of “Setting the Table,” for Catholic Family News (Nov. 2011), the book is, in fact, a handbook and guide for the “queering of Catholic parishes” written by a “gay”priest/activist in good standing with the Diocese of Oakland, California, under at least three consecutive bishops, John S. Cummins, Allen H. Vigneron, and Bishop Cordileone. The language of the text is “gayspeak.” When it comes to promoting the ideology of the Homosexual Collective, the author unabashedly adheres to the strict party line. There is even a promotion of the Stonewall Inn riots of June 1969. The question that Catholics should ask themselves is not “How can Bishop Cordileone be so clueless when it comes to understanding and opposing the Homosexual Collective?” but rather, “Does any bishop have the RIGHT to be as clueless as the bishop obviously is regarding the dangers of sodomites and other sexual perverts to State and Church and still put himself forward as a leader and defender of his new San Francisco flock which has been under siege by the Homosexual Collective for many decades now?” Randy Engel, author, The Rite of Sodomy
I would place Schuxnuyder’s new book in the genre called gallows humor.
Right on, Randy!!!
So Mr. Engle, allowing gay people to belong to Catholic parishes is “queering of Catholic parishes”? Gay people are human beings too. They don’t burn people at the stake anymore. Live and let live.
there were parishs in THE CITY where black people were not allowwed to receive communion, and they were told to go “to that balck parish down the road” instead.
i guess they, too, thought allowing balck folks in would “ruin” their church…
max, Stop insulting and disrespecting black people. Black people are just not as gullible as “you hoped” they would be. Black people truly resent it when homosexual activists use their own selfish motives of attempting to legitimize disgusting unnatural acts as a similar comparison to being persecuted for the color of one’s skin.
hey, CATH, the person who told me about this was black AND a woman.
i naturally didn’t ask if she was a lesbian, too, but that would have been like three strikes, eh?
thanks for always being good for a feisty response.
PA Randy Engel is a woman who exposed an enormous gay clique inside the Church who protect each other, and help each other advance in the Church. THIS IS THE ROOT OF THE PROBLEM. the sooner all of these sodomites are exposed and removed the Church the better
uh, CANISUS, as for homosexuals being “exposed,” i hate to break it to you, but according to the papers some men and women already walk around the city styark naked, so they have already exposed themselves as you request.
a pretty gross tyhought, but there you have it — and with all that cold fog, too!!!
Typical snide liberal response, refusing to face the Truth that perverts that have taken hold in the Church and need to rooted out
and here i thought i was special…sigh…
oh, CANISISU, i think being raised by lesbians who were apparently pretty unpleasant has left you with a very unpleasant approach to…well…the planet earth.
sorry for your messed up childhood, but you really should try to move along and get whatever hel0p you need to become less toxic and bitter.
Mark from PA … Excellent post. I wish you could visit Most Holy Redeemer in The Castro and actually SEE and experience it for yourself. The place is one of the most vibrant and spiritually alive parishes in the City of San Francisco .. always packed on Sundays, and certainly a great witness of social justice and charity. Oh yes, a very hight percentage of LGBT people who refuse to allow the fundamentalists to drive them away. Deo Gratias!!
Thank you for sharing your thoughts, Mr. Byrd.
You have given me something to think about with what you have written. I hope that I would find spiritual nourishment in any Catholic Church.
Mark … I wish that for you as well. Spiritual nourishment and the presence of love. Thank you for being the first person here to show graciousness to me. St. Benedict, in his rule (which I seek to follow) has said “All guests who present themselves are to be welcomed as Christ”. Of all the admonitions in The Rule .. that one strikes at my very core and I seek to live by it. Thank you for your kindness.
Will so you think that is a good thing? Let me notify you sir that Sodomy is a grave sin and those practicing that perversion should not mock the Lord by receiving holy communion! What you describe reminds me several years back when I tried convincing a young woman to not to go to gay bars, she described it almost as you did “always packed, great witness of social justice and full of gay love, nothing but fun and kind like minded people”. Don’t let those words fool you because going against the natural law is truly a disorder and can lead a soul to hell if one does not repent!
max stop accusing Canisuis of being bitter toxic, are you sure it is not you who is both that and more with your cruel and indifferent comments!
Will Byrd: Charity is love, and love is leading people to God. There is a distinctive difference between accepting people in lieu of accepting behavior. To be truly Catholic, we have to accept sinners and reject sin and Holy Redeemer is notorious for the promotion of the sinful behavior. This is NOT charity. If anyone allows, permits, or even promotes sin and a person’s soul is lost, how is this charity? It is not. Charity is living the Gospel. Jesus said Sin no more several times in the Gospel and it is how we are to live our lives, to strive to live a life of sanctity. God Love You.
MD, It has been made clear to me that opinions by outsiders are not welcome here, and I believe that my comments are now blocked. I’m going to take a chance here that they aren’t, and respond to your post. I am not a part of the community at Most Holy Redeemer (the correct name of the parish), though I have a number of friends who are very involved there. It will be up to them to decide if they want to remain in support of the new Archbishop or either find a different parish or make other choices. As for me, I have no interest at all in your fundamentalist sermonizing. Things are going to happen as they happen. I can only hope that my friends from MRH will either continue to find an unconditional welcome there, or that they will find other options to meet their spiritual needs. God’s peace – Will
I totally agree with the sentiments that the frequent changes in bishops is NOT GOOD for the local Church in Oakland. NOT GOOD.
The absolute truth is whatever jon agrees with.
Moreover, Schuxnuyder’s new book reminds me of the old song line, “come right in, sit right down, baby let your head hang … “, well what was the final word to that verse anyway?
Walk right in, sit right down , baby let you hair hang down.
I am very glad that JLS has finally come around to the realization that what jon says is truth.
Rose you are not funny….you are missing the point big time!
Rose on the other hand, max can sometimes actually be funny but you never!
God bless Bishop Cordileone on his new assignment.
It’s humorous to hear the name episcopalian pop up in these comments making claim to being a viable Christian sect. Let’s not stray off coarse into pagan utopia land.
ooooooooooooooo, don’t tell the queen!
she does think of herself as a christian, you know, as is the governor general of the church of england, if i got the title eright.
Max, I don’t know the woman, however you seem to question whether or not she is a Christian. Any reason why?
I don’t know Marcus .. how about you name me some of the pedophile lawsuits that the Episcopal Church here or else where have had to pay because of the immoral child molestation that has happened among it’s clergy? Perhaps you might want to take a good look through history and tell me some of the things that The Episcopal Church is guilty of that make it less of a “viable Christian sect” than say … you know who? It REALLY doesn’t pay to get too morally arrogant unless one has good reason to defend one’s own viability, Marcus. By the way .. other than the fundamentalism that I have often seen displayed on this thread, I am not anti-Catholic. I am anti arrogance and certainly loathing of religious fundamentalism. As far as Pagan stuff … let us not go into some of the pagan stuff of which certain sects within the Church of Rome have been guilty. As I said .. unless our own history and even present is pristine, it seems almost embarrassingly arrogant for any of us to attempt being holier-than-thou.
Mr, Byrd you are part of a heretic sect, and anti-Catholic, We are the Church founded by Christ, your sect started by Henry VIII because he wanted to dump his wife, for a younger version. Mainline Protestant sects are crumbling due to embrace of culture, and I am trying to prevent the same from happening to the True Church. Do us both a favor stay off this page with your protestant ramblings…
“Mainline Protestant sects are crumbling due to embrace of culture, and I am trying to prevent the same from happening to the True Church.”
glad you are on top of this, CANISUS, but it sounds like a big job for one man.
be sure to get lots of sleep and eat your wheaties…unless they are from the devil, too. (it’s so hard to keep up nowadays…not like in the old days when only procter & gamble was accused of being diabolical…)
We are what we eat, max. be sure to eat your big macs! Ya want fries with that? And don’t question if the alarm clock you turn on at night is made by slave labor in china, or if the night cream you slather on your face is made with embryonic material from abortions…and by all means, savor that cuppa coffee at starbucks. Who cares if they give millions to fight marriage between a man and a woman? I mean, where will it all end, right? But do not make fun of someone who cares. And Caisus is capable of doing many things because he feels the responsibility of being a man. How this country (and especially Mother Church) is crying out for more men just like him.
Dana, the fact that Starbucks and a vast (and growing) number of corporations stands for marriage equality does not in any way mean that they are against marriage between a man and a woman.
The majority of the so-called pedophile molestations were 80% or more homosexual assaults on post adolescent males. If there aren’t lawsuits in the episcopal church it isn’t for lack of child abusers but lack of funds…there just isn’t enough money to tempt the jackal lawyers who thrive and prosper off the detritus created by homosexual and pedophilic abuses in their wake. Hint: Follow the money.
So Dana . you are saying that the reason so many have come forth with law suits against the priests who have molested them is because the Catholic Church has so much money? Surely even you can see the utter foolishness in such “reasoning”.
I was initially pleased at this news; now, not so much. Abp. Cordileone’s announcement of support for Obama’s end-run around Congress on the DREAM Act is insupportable. Does the good Abp. not support the Catechism?
2241 The more prosperous nations are obliged, to the extent they are able, to welcome the foreigner in search of the security and the means of livelihood which he cannot find in his country of origin. Public authorities should see to it that the natural right is respected that places a guest under the protection of those who receive him.
Political authorities, for the sake of the common good for which they are responsible, may make the exercise of the right to immigrate subject to various juridical conditions, especially with regard to the immigrants’ duties toward their country of adoption. Immigrants are obliged to respect with gratitude the material and spiritual heritage of the country that receives them, to obey its laws and to assist in carrying civic burdens.
Sorry, Abp. Cordileone. FAIL!
archbishop cordileone: PASS!
i would even say: A+!
as the child of immigrants from sicily, you know the longings of people who came to these shores for a better life, often to be treated like dogs becauswe they were irish, italian, cahtlic, etc.
William, could you be more specific how you think the bishop has failed the catechism? Please correct me if I’m wrong in assuming you think he’s somehow not served the second paragraph. Since you and I read the same text differently, I say:
Congratulations, Abp. Cordileone and Obama administration: GOOOOOOOAAAAAALLLL!
First of all, in the Vatican’s text, that second paragraph is in small type, while the first is in large type, emphasizing that the first paragraph is the primary principle, the good to be achieved. The second paragraph is there to modify and moderate it. Furthermore the small word “may” in the middle of the first sentence means that there’s no obligation to be observed, but an option which State authority may exercise prudentially.
Francis when Obama starts shutting down catholic hospitals and schools where will you stand…..
Aren’t you conflating issues here? The DREAM Act is not the HHS mandate, and allowing kids who walk, talk and pay taxes like anybody else to eventually become citizens has nothing to do with how anyone pays for “reproductive care.”
No kidding genius it was general question, I know how liberals adore the Marxist in the White House, I wonder where you stand,,, something tells me you will be one for the first to help shut them down
No matter what comes out of the HHS mandate fiasco, it wouldn’t change my support of the bishop or the DREAM Act.
One of the difficulties in answering your question is that it presupposes an outcome (Catholic hospitals shutting down) which I think is unlikely. If (and I emphasize this is purely a hypothetical) government refuses to back down and ultimately Catholic hospitals shut down, I’ll take the same stand I’ll take if the “tea party” succeeds in shutting down WIC or other aid to poor families and persons: I’ll write my rep’s and join the nearest street-corner protest.
BTW: Serious “liberals” wouldn’t consider the President a Marxist by any stretch of the imagination. That’s just an ill-fitting pejorative term bandied about by his detractors.
So what about you? How will you support your bishop?
First, I challenge the reality that the bishops cannot seem to decide whether or not they can speak to specific issues without risk to the Church’s tax status. Second, the DREAM act, and Obama’s end-run implementation–in violation of checks and balances–are a de facto violation of our sovereignty, and a failure of adherence to the first paragraph of 2241, which supports standards for acceptance of immigrants.The people now given status have completely bypassed any and all screening mechanisms, including health screening. That last is critical, as many countries have badly misused antibiotics, and have consequently developed resistant strains of diseases we thought we had all but eradicated 50 years ago.
My paternal grandparents were first generation Americans, or German and Dutch heritage. I have spent a significant fraction of my adult life as a resident of Canada, though I am American. My wife is from China. I am manifestly not opposed to immigration; I am totally opposed to illegal entry and residence.
I am afraid that the Abp’s statement is another manifestation of the “social justice” agenda, which is often a means of violating Church teaching.
I still don’t see how 2241 has to do with “our” sovereignty, when it’s about welcoming immigrants. If anything, 2241 is an explicit limit on national sovereignty. So if you want argue that the DREAM Act oversteps Executive authority, that’s a constitutional issue, not a moral one and should therefore be taken to a different forum than this. The effect of the DREAM act and the USCCB’s support are completely consistent with 2241.
It doesn’t make any sense to put the bishops in a position of responsibility to uphold the US Constitution. That would be their responsibility as citizens, not as bishops.
The problem with the bishops’ lobbying on the DREAM Act is that the catechism does NOT say that a country cannot bar anyone at any time from entering into or residing within its borders, nor does it say that the fair and just immigration policy for each particular country shall be determined by the national episcopal conference therein. It says that the country itself, that is the secular rulers, may determine their specific policy based on that country’s situation. In a representative republic, that government is constituted by the electorate, which is at least partially peopled by the Christian laity. Even in a dictatorship, members of the laity may hold leadership positions in government. When Church teaching leaves the fine details of any particular question open to debate, such as immigration policy, then that debate falls within the sovereign domain of the laity. At the very least, the bishops are wasting their time and donors’ money by formulating positions which the laity are not obliged to accept (and the bishops are forced to admit this). At worst, the bishops are squandering their moral authority by confusing, in the public’s mind, what is negotiable with what is not. The bishops cannot compel the laity, under penalty of sin, to accept the DREAM Act. On the other hand, they must remind the laity that NO ONE is free to alter the definition of marriage or to murder babies in the womb or commit any other kind of sin. The bishops set a dangerous precedent when they keep interfering in the sovereign territory of the laity concerning immigration or tax policy or other issues over which they possess neither the human expertise nor the Divine mandate to advocate particular schemes–while they don’t seem to have the time to remind their own people of what CANNOT change.
We agree that “the catechism does NOT say that a country cannot bar anyone at any time from entering into or residing within its borders.” But that is a warped-to-absurdity version of what the DREAM Act or the bishop’s statements stand for. And why do you say “the bishops cannot compel the laity, under penalty of sin, to accept the DREAM Act”? Rightly, they haven’t done that! Compelling anyone by excommunication or penalty of sin represents a failure of moral leadership, not exercise of it.
It is not correct to state that the bishops “keep interfering in the sovereign territory of the laity concerning immigration or tax policy.” Standing firm on moral truth, whether that regards the legality of abortion or the treatment of immigrants, is not “interference” but their appropriate role.
Would it be correct to say that you expect the bishops to act only by threat of excommunication or direct interference, and not by private communication or expression of moral principles?
Furthermore, I think you tread on thin moral ice if you claim a secular “sovereign territory” where the bishops cannot even express Christian principles, because moral principles permeate and should direct everything we do. There’s a saying: “The budget is a moral document” and it is entirely appropriate for the bishops to speak out.
I say that the bishops cannot compel the laity to accept the DREAM Act because the DREAM Act is not infallible Catholic doctrine. Rather, it represents a specific secular plan regarding the handling of immigrants whose details can be debated–and can even be REJECTED–by believing Catholics without the fear that in rejecting the DREAM Act they are committing the sin of rebelling against Church teaching–because they are NOT doing so. A Catholic is completely free to say that the DREAM Act does not satisfactorily embody Catholic teaching, but may in fact be undesirable. You are confusing “standing firm on moral truth” with choosing sides in debatable matters in which the catechism does not choose sides, but allows open debate. To give another example: it is Catholic teaching that the moral law demands that humans exercise prudent stewardship over the environment. However it is NOT Catholic teaching that incandescent light bulbs or SUV’s harm the environment, and that therefore it would be sinful to use them. That is the opinion of some people–an opinion disputed by others. It would be inappropriate, therefore, for the bishops to call for Catholics to abandon use of SUV’s or incandescent bulbs. Those are judgmental matters which are to be left to the laity, especially laymen with the technical competence which the bishops lack. I am not at all treading on “thin moral ice” by saying there exists a sovereign domain of the laity, and that domain consists of the secular implementation of Catholic principles. The laity not only have the DUTY to implement those principles, they also have the RIGHT to implement them in the manner they best see fit, without kibitzing from the bishops, providing that they remain within the broad outlines of the moral law–outlines defined and taught infallibly by the bishops in union with the pope. When the laity goes OUTSIDE those boundaries (and ONLY then), the bishops must remind them that they are trespassing where God has forbidden them to go. Otherwise, the laity would be nothing more than the bishops’ political hacks–and the bishops themselves would be nothing more than old-time ward bosses. In other words, laymen MAY reject the DREAM Act. They may NOT reject the teaching that abortion is the murder of the unborn.
Is it fair to say that as far as you are concerned, the bishops’ authority applies only to enforcing adherence to infallible dogma? Do you expect the bishops to respond ferociously on only a few topics, and to stay out of all other topics? If so, that might be the point of departure where you and I disagree: To me, your expectations are way too legalistic to be Catholic.
I would say the bishops exercise authority and leadership at all levels. If someone violates infallible dogma, it’s up to the bishop to say so, and to take action as HE sees fit (not me, not you). For example, Absp. Niederauer called Nancy Pelosi in for a private chat; I don’t know what they talked about, but I’m sure the bishop exercised his authority consistent with his prudential judgement. If government or individuals behave immorally, for example turning away immigrants for no other reason than xenophobia or selfish desire to keep more material goods, it’s still up to the bishops to respond with moral guidance. They don’t have to stay mum until the letter of some infallible dogma is violated, and they can and should exercise a wide range of constructive responses short of anathema or excommunication.
I still insist that your position is morally weak (at best) when you limit your Catholic identity to only part of your life by saying “it is NOT Catholic teaching that incandescent light bulbs or SUV’s harm the environment, and that therefore it would be sinful to use them.” The sin of wasting electricity or pumping excess CO2 into the atmosphere (to use your examples) are not in the absolute behavior but in the lack of humility or disregard for consequences. That’s why it isn’t always a sin to buy an SUV. It could be a sin of pride if, for example, you really don’t need it and you buy it only to show off your wealth or to show your liberal neighbor that you don’t give a damn about the global environment. You need a competent confessor to help you tell the difference.
A morally strong position would depend on daily prayer and examination of conscience, together with a strong relationship to a confessor or spiritual director who actually knows you, to distinguish right from wrong. There exists no list of objective sins against which anyone can compare his own behavior and reliably know when he’s drifted into errant thoughts and behavior.
“Larry: Is it fair to say that as far as you are concerned, the bishops’ authority applies only to enforcing adherence to infallible dogma?” Well, that, along with enforcing liturgical discipline–that would be fair to say. They’re sacramental role is to teach, sanctify and govern the religious affairs of the Church. “Do you expect the bishops to respond ferociously on only a few topics, and to stay out of all other topics?” Yes, I do. “I would say the bishops exercise authority and leadership at all levels.” ALL levels? Are you serious? You mean they are to exercise political authority, too? And scientific authority? And economic authority? No–I’m afraid they do NOT. “If someone violates infallible dogma, it’s up to the bishop to say so, and to take action as HE sees fit (not me, not you).” And as far as I’m concerned, they’d better start doing a lot more of that. “…It isn’t always a sin to buy an SUV. It could be a sin of pride if, for example, you really don’t need it and you buy it only to show off your wealth or to show your liberal neighbor that you don’t give a damn about the global environment.” Well, then hypothetically speaking, would it be a sin for you to buy a little electric car if you only did it to parade your righteousness in front of your neighbor, whom you rashly judged to be a sinner because he’d bought an SUV? “There exists no list of objective sins against which anyone can compare his own behavior and reliably know when he’s drifted into errant thoughts and behavior.” REALLY? Then why are you lecturing me about my allegedly incorrect opinions? How can you know if I’m incorrect? If the above is true, then there is no way you can “reliably know” when I have drifted into “errant thoughts and behavior.” Furthermore, it would be wrong for the bishops to lecture politicians and the laity about how the DREAM Act ought to be passed, because there exists no “list of objective sins…” etc.
When I write “all levels” I mean all levels of authority, from a general directive, to a moral principle, to established dogma. Categories like faith/morals, science, politics and economics or how to swing a golf club aren’t levels but subjects. I expect bishops to teach faith and morals on all levels, and to touch on other subjects to the extent they intersect with faith and morals. And, like you, I don’t expect the bishops to speak to all subjects as a group (individual bishops do have expertise in some areas, though).
To answer your hypothetical about the electric car: No, it is not a sin to buy the electric car, but it definitely is a sin to rashly judge the neighbor!
We really aren’t as different as you might think, Larry. One clear difference between us, however, is that I respond to shades of grey where you react only to black and white. I’m not lecturing you for “incorrect opinions,” I’m exploring where our viewpoints diverge.
I didn’t write that there’s no way to reliably know anything, but that there’s mathematically no way to make a list that’s complete and eternal. It’s perfectly clear that we are to protect life and we are to welcome the stranger into our hearts. There will always be shades of grey, and without guidance every individual ego will always find a way to either spiral into meaningless scrupulosity or make immoral nonsense seem acceptable. My point is that relying only on written documents, whether scripture, CCC, Canon law or the US Constitution, is not adequate. That doesn’t mean I think these documents are wrong or unreliable — I know they are incomplete. We need the Church… unless you prefer to spend $$$ on therapy.
“Larry: When I write ‘all levels’ I mean all levels of authority, from a general directive, to a moral principle, to established dogma.” Then we agree. “Categories like faith/morals, science, politics and economics or how to swing a golf club aren’t levels but subjects. I expect bishops to teach faith and morals on all levels, and to touch on other subjects to the extent they intersect with faith and morals.” Great minds think alike! “It’s perfectly clear that we are to protect life and we are to welcome the stranger into our hearts.” Or, as the Romans might say, “clearer than light (clariora luce.)” You go on, “My point is that relying only on written documents, whether scripture, CCC, Canon law or the US Constitution, is not adequate.” You’re on a roll, my man! I can’t argue with that, either. The bishops must remind us all of the moral principles. But when a bishop says, “support the DREAM Act,” then he is being inappropriately specific about just HOW to implement the moral principles expressed in the catechism. One can oppose the DREAM Act without being a heretic or even a sinner–which means the bishops should not be telling us to favor the DREAM Act. If somebody were to say, “shoot all those illegals. Just shoot them!”–THEN the bishops must say, “hold on! That’s murder. You can’t do that.” If somebody says “let’s close all immigration. Keep the foreigners out,” then the bishops must say, “no–we must be open to the stranger to some degree–although we may disagree about just what sort of degree.” The bishops have their job. The laity theirs.
Max, with all due charity………….
I am fourth generation San Franciscan, and speaking for myself and
my family who helped build the City, really don’t appreciate your
remark on where our new Archbishop’s father was born!! News flash….
it’s been the people in more recent decades who have come from
other states or countries that have made the City what it is today….
WHICH IS NOT VERY PRETTY, to say the least!!!!! Didn’t mean
to offend you with my caps, but I was in a hurry.
ELIZABETH i think it’s cool that mr. dordileone was born in The City.
my comment placed in here was because so many people have been wailing and weeping, hoping that the new archdibhosp would have “no ties to san francisco,” and here they are happy with arhbichop cordileone.
some of these…uh…challenged types seem to think that s.f. roots mean you are corrupt to the core, which i believe is really a dumb idea…
Elizabeth, to your utter arrogance in speaking of the people from more recent decades who made The City what it is today .. I would remind you of the history of his City being what it was .. nothing for you in your arrogance to boast about. I would also remind you that the Native Americans who are buried in the graveyard over at Mission Dolores might have equally dismissive and degrading things to say about a fourth generation San Franciscan who, with only four generations to boast of, has very little historical ground to stand on when it comes to your arrogant pride. In spite of people with attitudes such as yours, a good many of us may not have four generations to boast of, however we are certainly not among those who have made the City of San Francisco “not very pretty”. Such ARROGANCE from a European who got here only a while earlier than some of us.
Will, I think many well-mannered people would consider it highly arrogant for someone to post comments on a religious web site for a creed other than his own, and lecture the readers there on how to be better members of their own religion. I don’t think most people here would do that.
Larry, what Creed do I endorse or promote that is not identical to that of the Church of Rome?
You are an Episcopalian. This is a Roman Catholic web site. At the very least, you do not recognize the authority of the pope as the Supreme Bishop of Christianity. Since you announce you are gay, I would infer that you do not recognize the Catholic Magisterium’s teachings that homosexuality is a grave offense against the moral law. You may also disagree with Pope John Paul II’s ruling that women are ineligible for Holy Orders. I would certainly infer that you don’t agree with our Magisterium’s ruling that the Anglican-Episcopalian Church has lost Apostolic succession and that therefore its priests possess no Sacramental power (unlike the various Orthodox Churches.) I should think it would be self-evident that if you had no fundamental disagreements with the Catholic Church, you would be a Catholic. So I don’t know why you even ask such a question.
Their own religion . are you not Christians? What religion other than Christ do you represent?
I represent the Christian religion or faith, Larry. How about you? I see nothing from the Moderator that excludes other Christians from commenting here. Do you know something I don’t? I know that people say utterly vile and hateful things when they are safely behind their keyboards. Perhaps that is what I am facing here?
Surely you’ve noticed that the name of this publication is “California Catholic Daily,” the topic is the new Roman Catholic bishop of the Catholic Archdiocese of San Francisco, and whether he will begin to enforce Catholic standards in the parishes and other facilities of the archdiocese. You came on this thread accusing Catholics of arrogance for the offense of standing up for Catholic teaching, at the same time announcing yourself as an Episcopalian. After you had thrown the word “arrogance” at us several times, I decided to point out your own arrogance in kibitzing in the internal affairs of another religion–one in which you are not a party. Speaking for myself, I don’t plan to enter Episcopalian threads and scold them for not accepting the pope as their leader, nor do I plan to visit Jewish religious websites and demand that they accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. You exhibit the typical hypocrisy of liberals who are guilty of exactly what they accuse others of doing. Your posts are the ones filled with nose-in-the-air, holier-than-thou snootiness.
Larry good call!
Elizabeth was speaking exclusively about the CITY of San Francisco. The CITY did not exist until the Europeans (circa 1849)established it. Before that, it was an old fort and a Spanish Catholic mission. And before that, it was only wilderness with, perhaps, a few nomadic barbarians passing through from time to time.
My name is Will, not Byrd, and so those Native Americans who are buried out in the cemetery are the “nomadic babarians” of whom you speak? You are talking about the ones who built the Mission, right? The attitudes I read on this blog are truly stunning .. and to that they are supposedly expressing the heart of Christ. Amazing! I can’t begin to imagine what you people have to say about the many Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, and people of no faith who have given so much to the building of this City. It’s already clear what you think of the gay community. The hatred of the entire fundamentalist world, regardless the faith it claims to represent, is truly mind boggling. And you express it without shame!!!
“Fundamentalism is not confined to Islamic religions. In fact fundamentalist movements are to be found in all societies and religions, including Catholic Christianity.
“Fundamentalism is a form of organised anger in reaction to the unsettling consequences of rapid social and religious change.
“Fundamentalists find rapid change emotionally extremely disturbing and dangerous. Cultural, religious and personal certitudes are shaken. Consequently, fundamentalists simplistically yearn to return to a utopian past or golden age, purified of dangerous ideas and practices.”
i googled cathlic fundamentalism and found some interesting stuff…
oh Max .. Yes, YES and Yes!! I don’t care what faith it is .. I view Fundamentalism as the bastardized perversion of whatever faith it claims to represent. Without exception it’s foundation is fear and reaction .. not response and love. I suppose that because it’s all about rule keeping, it makes it’s adherents feel somehow more holy .. yet I find nothing Christ like about it. St. Benedict tells us to “listen with the ear of our heart” .. and that is something that fundamentalists would never do, because it leaves too much room for error. THANK YOU for posting that!!
You should exercise your reading comprehension skills. I said BEFORE the mission there were nomadic barbarians. FYI – barbarian loosely means uncivilized. If you can name a city in Cali or even North America before the evil Europeans entered the scene, I will stop associating the term barbarian with the Indian.
And why are you babbling at me about fundamentalism? I spoke nothing about religion.
Steve .. I think that it was more of a question .. asking if you were speaking of Native Americans when you wrote of the wandering barbarians who lived here before the gold hungry Europeans came to stake claim to what they considered their share of the loot. Those “barbarians”, even today, honor the earth as a gift from God .. not something over which we greedily take possession and end up fighting wars that kill, maim and destroy so many lives (and we have the audacity to call ourselves a “Christian Nation”.) I am glad, Steve, that you weren’t talking about religion. Your angry and insulting tone to me is not at all becoming someone who might claim to represent his faith or Jesus Christ. Again, I love what Fr. Richard Rohr wrote .. that we are all called to be icons of Christ in this world. Peace to you Steve!!
You, of all people, are quoting St. Benedict? It is to laugh! Have you studied the Benedictine rule? And do you know that St. Benedict wrote it for laymen, such as yourself, so that you might learn, and love, to obey rules? I have a quote from him which is not taken out of context:
The purpose of his Rule was to bring men “back to God by the labour of obedience, from whom they had departed by the idleness of disobedience”.
Elizabeth, do you remember anything about a big warehouse fire in April of 1986 in San Francisco? I’m trying to find out about it, because my sister had read about it in the Wall Street Journal years ago, and it mentioned that about 17 young men were found handcuffed to beds and then no more was heard about it. I’d appreciate any information you can give. Thanks!
(and I know just what you mean!! My family came to Ohio from Con. w/the Western Reserve landgrant in lieu of wages for fighting in Rev. War & since the gov’t had no money, granted land…when Ford motor brought people in from other states in the 1960’s, we lost our whole identity)
Whoops . .just realized that url links aren’t allowed .. I will just stick with the fact that to say there gay men chained inside that building is utterly dishonest.
Mr Byrd when will you learn….
My purpose here has been accomplished, Abeca. I only wanted to share with my friends, Catholic and non Catholic the vast difference between Catholics and Fundamentalist Catholics, and I have been able to copy and share this thread with many of them. Thank you most kindly for your gracious participation, Will
But Will you think you are an expert? Plus what you consider fundamentalist or whatever, could just actually be true Catholicism but today people label good in different categories but in actuality it is just being true Catholic, all in the same, as long as it’s good and pure.
The warehouse explosion was in an illegal fireworks business in Hunter’s Point .. and there were no men found chained to beds or any such thing. There are a number of logical reasons why reports that (gay men chained to beds) would have been completely without credibility.
Tom Miles: From one SF native to another, you responded with strong common sense to the appointment, as one would expect from a native. This is a time for prayer both for the local archdiocese established in 1853 and for the bishop Rome has called to shepherd the local church. Rome knew exactly what it was doing in taking its time to make the right choice for this most important and most challenging of all episcopal appointments in the U.S. I hope like his predecessor, Patrick Riordan, the new archbishop will, in time, think of himself too as “A Citizen of No Mean City.”
PAUL MARTIN thank you for adding a note of sanity to this announcement of our new archbishop.
the people in our parish were happy, although sad to lose beloved archbihsiop niederauer, whom they have come to love also.
your measured words are a refreshing corrective to some of the nutty hysteria this announcemtn has generated — and i’m just talking about me!!! :)
Let us all say a Prayer for the new upcoming ArchBishop of San Francisco. He will have a difficult job within his Diocese since Scandals, Heretics, Schismatics, and unnecessary Ignorance of the content of the CCC abound in that Diocese. These mortal sins have been permitted to stand and therefore grow far too long.
I hope his priorities will be teaching which is the prime responsibility of all Bishops – pubically encouraging the reading of the Bible and the CCC.
it’s now a mortal sin now to know the catechism?
good to know.
i’ll add that to my list…
(p.s. you forgot to add the words “second editiioon,” but that’s only a venial sin, i believe)
Here is the chance to do something positive. Fr. Brian Costello, the new MHR pastor, has let it be known to some of us that he is willing to talk with an AUTHORIZED representative of this website about MHR, his role and how he sees things going forward.
His phone number is easily discovered on the MHR website.
It’s put up or shutup time.
Perhaps he should simply talk to someone in Rome.
father costello could simply make a post here, if he wishes. that’s probably easiest.
I’m hoping for the best here, but like most of us I’ve been disappointed far too often in the past. You hear that a brand new sheriff is coming in to clean up Dodge once and for all, and you say to yourself, “finally!” But then after he arrives, he starts getting awfully chummy with the rowdies. A few months go by and it seems like it’s business as usual at all the saloons. The whoring is still going on upstairs–downstairs, the gambling, drunkenness, fighting and killing–and the man in the bowler hat and sleeve garters is still slamming away on the piano keys to beat the band. You try to ask the new sheriff, “how come y’all ain’t cleaned this place up like you wuz s’posed to?” and you never get an answer. I often get the impression that even the most purportedly conservative American bishops are merely less liberal than the others–they’re certainly POLITICALLY liberal if not doctrinally so. Archbishop Gomez in Los Angeles has done nothing about the seriously-tainted Religious Education Conferences. I’m ambivalent about Cardinal Dolan in New York. Seems like his bark is a lot worse than his bite. Even Archbishop Chaput is firmly on the illegal alien bandwagon, as are the others I mentioned. I certainly hope that AB Cordileone has the guts to barge into the saloons and demand that the cowboys and gunslingers hand over their guns while they’re in town–and that the gambling and other illegal activities stop. But I also wonder if maybe the way to save the Church in America is to import missionary bishops from foreign countries to serve as diocesan ordinaries. I don’t have a lot of respect for the American episcopacy.
and yet the american bishopos always speak so highly of you…
They DO? Well, that’s a news flash! I didn’t think any of them had ever even heard of me!
max you are going to far with Larry. Why aren’t you taking his comments serious, they do speak the truth. Can you at least give him the credit where it’s due?
Sometimes we ask too much too soon. The new AB will have to become familiar with 90+ parishes, learn about all that is going on in his new territory, assess the three or four major needs of the people and then start to make some moves. That should take two or three years, just to become adjusted. He was in Oakland only a short time. He had yet to visit each of the 80+ parishes. He can’t come into town and close down all the saloons the first night. Rememberl, that he is the first pastor and must be pastoral in his efforts. Many on this site don’t like the idea of a gay or lesbian person entering a church. Yet, the AB is not the pastor of one of the largest gay population in the country. He is also the pastor of several other groups, at the same time. The curriculum of schools can’t be changed over night. It will take years of study, thought and implementation. It will take time to build relationships with the great universities, run by religious organizations that don’t quickly report to him. This is a job that requires building sound relationships first, and then taking action. No AB want to make major moves until he knows he has the support of at least half the people. Why don’t we give him a chance and send him a few prayers, rather than tearing him apart before he even gets a chance to move.
There are no scriptural verses for Ezechiel 6:49,50. Please correct. Thanks.
Whoops sorry .. I meant to type Ezekiel 16:49,50 .. thank you for pointing out my typo.
Does anyone know who the next Oakland bishop will be?
No, it has not been announced. It usually takes a year or so.
Gosh, a year! Would not have guessed they’d have gaps like that. Thanks.
if he is a bastion of orthodoxy and traditionalism, why is there a Koran enshrined in the “Cathedral of Christ the Light” in Oakland?
Perhaps because the cathedral was completed and consecrated a year before Salvatore Cordileone arrived?
for the life of me, i can’t imagine WHY a catholic church would have a koran in it!
would a mosque have a book of the gospelos?
And your proof of that is what?
The Koran is there, in a side chapel, alongside a New Testament. It isn’t hard to find testimony to that online. If you’re in Oakland, drop on by and find it for yourself!
I googled ‘ the Koran enshrined in the “Cathedral of Christ the Light” in Oakland’ and came on a website (The progressiveist spirit by Lyle Arnold) showing pictures of this hideous monstrosity. It is the ugliest, most satanic thing I’ve ever seen. I’m floored! It can’t possibly be worshiped in! How can true believers bear it? It’s like an atheist’s view of God composed of a vast emptiness with no purpose. It belongs in the USSR of the 1960’s/ The designer of such dated, unaesthetic, unprincipled sterility should lose his license to kill. Words just can’t convey what that___I can’t call it a sanctuary__what it must do to one’s spirit just to look at it. That is criminal. I’ve never been so shocked about architecture, and I’ve read Tom Wolf’s ‘From Our House to Bauhaus’ which goes into why people go for this abysmal garbage, so I shouldn’t be so shocked, but I am. How utterly sad and depressing for the poor people of Oakland! Imagine having to drive by it, let alone ‘worship’ our most precious Lord and Savior inside. Oh. I’m undone. How could they? Who did this? Who could have possibly allowed this? I’m sure I sound like a looney, but it’s like finding out there’s no Santa Claus. That a Catholic Church could look like a sacrilege is disturbing to me on so many levels. It cost millions of dollars!!
Are you all serious here? Really? Wow, now how can we top this one. I’m getting sick of all this tolerance. Why is there a Koran there? May God have mercy on us all.
hoho. I meant to say, I feel like a child finding out there’s no Santa.
Big difference,no? I still am reeling that that hideous monstrosity is a Catholic church…and a Cathedral at that! Visual proof of how we have fallen, if more proof was needed…like abortion, same sex marriage et al.
Bless your heart, but when referring to no ties to San Francisco, meaning
ties as being that of one of the current auxilliary bishops or any other
priest in the diocese who is liberal.
A very young and devout, holy priest told us that San Francisco use to be a very family friendly place, that it was very Catholic and devout. I just couldn’t believe it, what happened? What grave sins did the faithful allow or committed there that homosexuality became it’s curse and downfall?
If you want to see what San Francisco would have been like without the disaster, just go up for the next Walk For Life.
The whole city filled with children and families.
Never to be forgotten.
Rick sounds good. : )
ABECA, i don’t know about the history of homosexuality in s.f., but right now i do read in the paper how expensive it is for families to afford lviing here — really terrible.
they are even thinking of building really tiny apartments like in japan, things that people can afford – but not if you have a family!
the real family areas are places like the mission district, where the faith is really alive (in great part thanks to the latino families), the sunset (where lots of chinese families live, many generations under one roof), etc.
Yes that is true max about the tiny apartments and how expensive it is to live there, I have heard of that too. Also heard that when you have gay men living together, you have two male incomes and many of them are pretty well off too. So they can afford to live there. Would be nice if SF would go back to being truly Catholic and get rid of all the pro-gay agenda’s.
IF San Francisco were to get rid of all the “gay agenda” … the Catholic Church would have a far smaller presence, I have often thought of how interesting it would be if all the gay Catholic Clergy and Religious were to turn, say, green for a day. It would be VERY revealing. Were it not for gay clergy, cantors, educators, musicians, nuns, priests, brothers … the Catholic Church and others would be so much poorer for it.
Will I don’t know what you are getting at? Maybe it’s too late and I’m not paying attention but it is about saving souls and that would mean to turn away from sin. Sodomy is a grave sin! Just in case you didn’t know.
Abeca .. Sodomy was the sin of Sodom, was it not? Read Ezekiel 16:49,50 and see what the sin of Sodom was; why it was destroyed. In verse 50 the word translated “abomination” is the hebrew word Toevah, which speaks of idol worship, not Zimmah which speaks of sexual abomination. Blessings to you Abeca.
Gideon’s army, Will.
We will defeat you not because we are numerous, but because we are immune to your counterarguments against God made flesh, Jesus Christ.
You really are wasting your time here, we will never believe you when you contradict Our Lord.
Seriously, you will have better luck with the softies over at National Catholic Distorter….er…Reporter.
Rick .. defeat me? I’m not in a contest or a competition, and you are more than welcome to defeat me. We keep our own death and the victory of Christ ever before us, knowing that even our death has been swallowed up in His victory. You err grievously in assuming that I am not a Christian and someone who denies Christ. I take heart in the fact that Teresa of Avila, Francis of Assisi and Benedict of Nursia among many others faced the same kinds of character assasinations, though the persecution they faced and survived was far more serious than anything we might ever face.
It would be a wonderful occurrence to have a smaller, more Orthodox church. All members would earnestly try to live according to the teachings of the Catholic Church and would welcome all sincere applicants. No pushers of homosexuality need apply, unless sincerely trying to seek the truth and willing to change their beliefs and attitudes when presented with the truth. It appears that several on this blog would fail admission requirements.
Mr. Byrd, in regards to your comment, it would be very interesting indeed.
That and St. Dominic’s are two wonderful parishes . and many gay men and women have found a welcome home at both places. What I see on this thread is FAR from representative of any of the fine Catholic men and women who I know.
Abeca, I just realized that I didn’t actually answer your question re: my statement about gay clergy and religious turning “green” for a day. What I meant is that, in my experience over the years,the vast majority of Catholic Priests and many religious are gay. Were it not for Gay Priests, Cantors, Organists, Liturgists, I fuly believe that your church would be much poorer in it’s committmnt to minister to the many Catholic faith communities in San Francisco and elsewhere. Some RCC Clergy are out, some aren’t. That is what I actually meant by my statement .. sorry to not have clarified it at the time. God’s Peace, Will.
I agree with Rick’s comments to you Mr. Byrd. Good day.
I genuinely cannot understand why those who are married feel threatened ?
I am not a religious person but truly fail to begin to comprehend why you married people feel something outside your marriage could undermine its ‘sanctity’.
If your marriage is in trouble you should be looking to yourselves, not outside influences.
See Marriage Guidance and leave politics to politicians.
Considering what seems to be the state of most marriages today anyway, again I’d suggest married people clean up their own mess before blaming anyone else, or fearing someone else might create more of a mess which I can’t imagine possible.
Maybe you are really afraid that gay people are more capable of loving than you are. No one can undermine YOUR marriage. It has to be something else you fear.
When you think what they are put through, gay people, not least by religious people; their love is surely tested to the limits.
This man looks like the eldest of the singers, “The Priests” and I know him.
All this politic and strife. Little love. Less christianity it seems.
“Go preach the gospel. Use words if necessary.”
I believe was a man of true faith said that or something like it.
Simple. The idea of “marriage” proposed by same-sex “marriage” advocates is about the desires of the couple. Since it finds its justification in desire, as soon as those desires change the “marriage” loses its raison d’etre. If they get bored with one another, they’ll just move on. Why shouldn’t they? It’s what they want. But that obviously destroys marriage as anything more significant than playing house.
Ah, yes. Heterosexual marriage is not about the desires of the couples, and they never get bored with each other and file for divorce. 50% anyone? Catholics, too.
Fantasy is wonderful when you are a child, but for adults ….
But that must be why so many of you spout what you spout here.
Apparently you figure that since divorce (always condemned by the Church) has worked out so terribly, then destroying the gender basis of marriage completely would make it even……..
Logic has never been among the strong suits of the marriage corruption defenders.
Similarly, I genuinely cannot understand why marriage corruption advocates imagine, for a second, that parents intend to allow a radical social-engineering cult to indoctrinate their innocent children in homosexual propaganda, via the expedient of redefining marriage out of existence altogether, and replacing it with a Federal Friendship With Benefits Act.
It’s simply an irreconcilable clash of fundamental word views, Patrice.
Only one side can win.
See you in November.
Patrice, The threat is not the undermining of a couple’s marriage. It is the undermining of society by the lack of stability in marriage and the family. You are correct that there are numerous threats against the family; the redefinition of marriage is only one. We are already reaping the rotten fruit of adultery, divorce, contraception, economic factors that keep parents away from the home, consumerism, materialism, domestic violence, self-affirmation and narcissism. Many people can not even envision the type of marriage and family that the Lord calls for because they have never seen it. The solution is not alternative arrangements that mimic marriage. Traditional values and virtue must be restored. Also, as Catholics who believe that homosexual sexual relations are offensive to God and deeply wounding to the soul and spirit of those who partake of them, we charitably oppose same-sex unions for the good of those who might be misled into a damaging relationship. I understand that friendship and love are great goods, but sexual gratification is not. Faithful Catholics are very strict in their belief and practice that the use of the sexual gift is only for a married man and woman who are open to procreation. It is to be used only with one person, except in the tragedy of the death of a spouse. Our Lord is Jesus Christ who said that the way to destruction is wide and easy and the way to life is rough and difficult. it involves constant self-denial.
An excellent post, K.
Once you throw out the definition of marriage based on the model for procreation, Patrice (one woman + one man, not closely related by blood) then you basically have no definition that everyone can agree on. For example–if two men or two women can marry, then why couldn’t they be brother/sister or first cousins or even parent + child? Since the union is sterile, what does it matter whether they are blood relations? For that matter, why only two individuals? Why not three or four or even a larger group? Throw out the traditional definition of marriage and you open the floodgates for more and more additions and amendments until eventually there will be so much chaos that the state will be forced to throw up its hands and simply de-regulate marriage as a legal entity, leaving the matter entirely up to the various churches. But that’s going to create a staggering problem for the churches, because once there is no such thing as marriage, there will also be no such thing as divorce. The Last Baptist Church at 5th & Main would have to come up with a policy on remarriage–i.e., “if Joe marries Cindy in our church and then comes back to us three months later and says he’s left Cindy and wants to marry Tina–do we let him have as many weddings here as he wants–as often as he wants? Or do we lay down ground rules?” Pretty soon, the Protestant Churches will be competing with each other–“come to our church for remarriage–we only have a 6-month waiting period–lowest in town.” The big winner will be the Catholic Church, because its present policies–lifetime (without annulment on specific grounds) marriage between one man + one woman–will remain intact.
it was saint francis of assisi who said:
“preach the gospel always — if necessary, use words.”
I’m waiting max for you to follow those words……
May Mssss. Nancy be forced to “Love it or Leave it”!!!
How terribly novel: a Catholic bishop that believes and teaches what the Catholic Church believes and teaches! Why should this be a “seismic” event for the Archdiocese of San Francisco, or for any diocese? What else is a Catholic bishop supposed to believe and teach, if not the Catholic faith?
“Let the cleansing begin..” Amen. But rest assured it will be by the sweat and blood of the lamb who has been sent into the land of the shadow of death.
Thank you Lord for answering my prayer! Bishop Cordileone is perfect for what needs to be done in San Francisco. He will bring back the true teaching of the Church there. It was about time!!!
The wrong will be corrected now in San Francisco!
Bp Cordileone, who holds a doctorate in canon law, currently serves as bishop of Oakland, Calif., and chairman of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops Subcommittee on the Defense and Promotion of Marriage. He has been a leading spokesman for Catholic teachings on marriage and sexual morality and an outspoken opponent of same-sex marriage and civil unions.
He inherits Nancy Polosi when he moves to San Fransisco.
The mortal sin of SCANDAL is part of the problem within the San Francisco Diocese.
Should be interesting within the first year.
Now we have to do our jobs, which is VOTE for moral rather than evil politicans. And help the good ones win with bumper stickers, money for their campaigns, etc.
Praise God! Thank you, Jesus.
Let’s help the new Archbishop. How about if everyone comes up with a list of the five (no more) most important things he must do in the first year after he is installed. Make them realistic, because some things take longer than others. I’m sure someone will make sure that he sees the lists.
1. Build a strong relationship whith the priests and seminarians
2. Visit all of the High Schools and get to know the next generation, say Mass for/with them
3. Visit at least 30 parishes – confirmation, get-to-know, etc.
4. Build a strong relationship with the other Bishops that are under his metropolitan responsibility
5. Begin the dialogue with the civic leaders with whom he will have to work if he is to accomplish his goals for the second year in his office
That seems like enough for one year. What is on your list?
BOB ONE you give very good ideas.
some more might include:
– reaching out to the police and fire depts. who serve and protect, so they will know the catholic church is on their side, especially when disaster strikes and funerals are needed.
– connecting with other religious leaders to deal with the city’s big problems like homelessness (which is a HUGE issue in san francisco).
– giving talks on radio and t.v. about virtue, catholic values, spreading the gospel, compassion, etc., so it’s not always “us versus them” like the reporters try to do.
Cordeleone that means lion-hearted does it not
exactly what the catholic church in USA needs!
Why is there so little comment on the holocost of abortion, and the fact that the encyclicals Huimanae Vitae and Caritas in Veritate are met with silence? In America we elected our first black as Prwesidentr,andyetthere is a very highrate of aborions amongthe balckpopulatyion. Why is hthere so little attention to tyhe logic of NFP for married couples? Do Catholicdoctor prefer to recommend The Pill or condoms.
AlexaNDER sOLZHENITSYN DISTILLED FROM THE gULAG PERSPECTIVE THAT AFTER ALL, “FREEDOM IS SELF-RESTRICTION” — whether in regard to desire for sex or property. Why the silence conspiracy?
I PRAY THAT THE NEW ARCHBISHOP MAKES IT CLEAR TO NANCY PELOSI AND HER ALLIES THAT THEY ARE EXTREMELY VIOLENT TO HOMOSEXUALS BECAUSE THEY REFUSE TO SPEAK THE TRUTH THAT NO ONE IS BORN THAT WAY AND THAT COMPLETE AND PERFECT CHANGE IS COMPLETELY AND PERFECTLY POSSIBLE AND IT HAPPENS EVERYDAY BY THE POWER OF CHRIST WHO HAS DELIVERED SINNERS FROM THEIR SLAVERY TO SIN FOR 2000 YEARS.
A newspaper reporter asked G.K. Chesterton, “What is wrong with the Catholic Church?” Chesterton responded, “I am.”
I couldn’t read all the postings but was encouraged by the many mature expressions of hunger for truth and Christian charity.. Blessed John Paul II has directed the whole world to look for the coming of the New Springtime for the Church which he said will come as we remain docile to the Holy Spirit. He consecteated the third Millennium to true evangelization. May each evangelizer examine self first and offer universal prayer for all and watch with praise to God as the stone throwing ceases. As we each adhere to our Head, Jesus Christ, the Curch will becomes that sign to the world which Jesus prayed in John:17, that all people will come to know that God, in His perfect love, sent Jesus for all mankind.
Is it realistic to pray that God bless every person? Certainly! It is no more difficult for God to bless billions than it is for Him to bless one person. I expect that it gives God joy to see us stretch our faith in such a manner, showing Him such trust. After every grace before meals our family adds, “May all people receive the physical and spiritual food they need. Amen.”
Is San Francisco a bastion of evil? If I were to tell what happened to me on the grounds of St. Mary’s Catholic Hospital in 1962, I believe that either I would not be believed, or it would be impossible to conclude otherwise. My great-grandmother, who visited San Francisco as a young widow right after the railroad was completed, concluded sadly that San Francisco was a den of iniquity even then. A visitor of today to “The City,” as it is often called by the locals, as if there were no other, would likely acknowledge that there is a very obvious struggle going on between good and evil, and agree that at the moment, evil appears more evident. According to the Bible, good will conquer evil. I have great faith that Archbishop Cordileone is the man for the daunting task of turning around that great and beautiful ship. I suggest love, patience, support and encouragement, not merely for the good bishop, but for all among us who need to turn away from sin. I too, like Chesterton, am what is wrong with the Catholic Church, but my heart is filled with caritas and hope for every Catholic in that beautiful City of Light. I pray that Bishop Cordileone will help create the atmosphere in which ultimately those who wish to be saved will turn their faces to The Light while there is yet time.
every city and town is a bastion of evil — and of good.
you just have to look around to find both.
max true but remember some are more than others too. I just know that San Francisco has it’s reputation for their gay activism and such. We can’t deny that fact!
I remember many years back, I was just a teenager, my step brother went to college in San Francisco, I recall him telling us that he saw men making out and openly being very open about their homosexuality. Those days people just turned away and acted like it was harmless but look where it got us. You ignore sin enough that sooner or later it will come back to get you….and your children too. Poor scandalized children!
Bishop Salvatore Cordileone,
You have my full support, you may contact me at St. Joseph’s parish in Redding, CA.