The orthodox Catholic world today, while in theory united in the shared acceptance of the Catholic Church’s authority to declare binding doctrine, is not always united in practice. The greatest, and perhaps most toxic, divide within orthodox Catholicism revolves around the liturgy, and particularly the differences between the Old and New Masses.
Heck, orthodox Catholics can’t even agree on what to call these two different celebrations of the Mass—or even if they are different forms or different rites. Is it the Novus Ordo and the traditional Latin Mass? Or the Ordinary Form and the Extraordinary Form? What about the Mass of St. Paul VI and the Mass of St. Pius V? This may seem like silly semantics to outsiders, but unfortunately just using the wrong terminology can trigger accusations of disrespect and fits of anger (which is why I’m going to stick with the generic “New Mass” and “Old Mass” here). Needless to say, it’s not a good situation.
How did we get here? Naturally, sudden and wholesale changes made to the most important activity a Catholic can participate in will result in disagreements. Many Catholics in the 1960’s had a Sunday in which they showed up at Mass and it was vastly different from the Mass they attended the previous Sunday. Such an experience is jarring, to say the least. Some Catholics loved the changes, some hated them, and ultimately many Catholics left the Church soon after the changes went into effect. No matter one’s reaction, the abruptness and significance of the changes led to a lot of emotional baggage among Catholics.
Over the years partisans of each side haven’t always been particularly charitable with one another. Traditional Catholics love to point out clown Masses, often implying that every celebration of the New Mass borders on a blasphemous travesty. Too often they utter the phrase “Novus Ordo” like the most contemptuous four-letter word in existence. Then there are the New Mass-attending Catholics who stereotype every traditional Catholic as a mean-spirited, nasty ogre who obsesses over things that ultimately don’t matter. Traditionalists are labeled “schismatic” and treated with less respect than brazenly-heretical priests like Fr. James Martin.
And if we are being honest, we must acknowledge that Pope Francis hasn’t exactly helped put out the fire; in fact, he’s poured gasoline on it. While Pope Benedict XVI valiantly tried to find a way to reconcile the camps, our current pontiff seems more intent on demonizing lovers of the Old Mass as “rigid” Catholics who only bring division to the Church.
Into this mess comes a documentary series that hopes to turn down the heat while also bringing light to the conversation. It’s Mass of the Ages, a three-part movie series about the Old Mass. Episode I was released last summer and gave a general introduction to the Old Mass (disclaimer: I briefly appear in Mass of the Ages Episodes I and II). It was a massive success, with over 1 million views at last count. Many were introduced to the Old Mass in a non-confrontational, positive way.
But it’s Episode II that really attempts to reset the conversation. In spite of the fact that the Church made significant changes in the 1960’s to her primary means of worship, very few Catholics actually understand why she did it and even what changes were made. The overall ignorance on this subject is breathtaking when you think about it….
I make no secret of where my own views lie: I’ve regularly attended the traditional Latin Mass for over a decade and so I’m firmly on the Old Mass “side.” But having attended the New Mass for 15 years before that, I know that there is much that is true, beautiful, and good about its celebration. Having seen and lived both “sides” intimately, I know there’s a desperate need for a real conversation, a real debate, about how the Mass, the center of our Faith, is celebrated….
Episode II of Mass of the Ages premieres today (May 26, 2022) at 3pm ET. You can watch it for free here.
The above comes from a May 26 posting in Crisis Magazine by Eric Sammons, the magazine’s editor-in-chief.
It’s not the Mass of the Ages. It was a historically conditioned form of the Mass that Vatican II mandated be reformed. To celebrate Mass using the preconciliar 1962 Missal is to reject Vatican II. Plain as that. Thank God Pope Francis has stated authoritatively that the Missal produced after the reforms of Vatican II is the normative Mass for the Roman Rite and that celebrations of Mass using the 1962 Missal are tolerated for now as a limited concession but should be and will be phased out.
No need for debate. Vatican II settled the matter. Get with the program. Don’t be schismatic.
Rome will come out with a document later this year about liturgical formation, addressing the need to educate Catholics about the liturgy and the superiority of the Novus Ordo over the preconciliar Mass.
” the superiority of the Novus Ordo over the preconciliar Mass” ba ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha..;…….. 90 percent of the Bishops have simply ignored TC, and will continue to do so. The TLM will be around long after you are gone.
90% of bishops don’t have a TLM to deal with, so no action has been necessary. It’s a very, very small minority of Catholics who are stuck in the TLM time capsule, mostly restricted to the United States and France, but even in the US they amount to less than 1% of Catholics who attend Mass.
The TLM will not — is not — part of mainstream Catholic life. It’s fringe. It won’t survive as an authorized rite in the Roman Church.
I think if the TLM were done away with completely, they would just go to Eastern Catholic liturgies.
Orthodox Catholics, for the most part, attend Mass at their parish church. Some call it the “new mass,” but only a few of them know it is “new.” Vatican II took place in the 1960s. That is nearly 60 years ago. My children were exposed to the “old” Mass until about the age of four or five. Their children don’t know that there was ever a Latin mass, and their grandchildren won’t know it either. So, if millions of good Orthodox Catholics go to the “new, now old mass” what do we call those who don’t follow the Orthodox form of the Mass? Asking for a friend
I watched it. It is definitely not a bridge between old and new Masses. The documentary explicitly calls Vatican II a failure and claims the new Mass is a complete rupture with Catholic faith and tradition. They outright call for a rejection of Vatican II and a return to the TLM.
They are not building a bridge. They don’t want a bridge. They want to undo the Council.
This is exactly why Pope Francis was right to issue Traditionis Custodes and begin phasing out the TLM. TLMers are schismatics in all but name. They reject the post-Conciliar Church and the post-Conciliar liturgy, and in doing so they place themselves outside the sheepfold.
This documentary was a waste of time to make. You cannot undo Vatican II. The liturgical reform is irreversible.
Bob One answering to your friend… your side has failed to even catechize two generations, but you will hold to your failed spirit of Vatican 2. The Church is being divided and say thank God. As soon as the German Synod is imposed on the rest of the Church the split will officially come and again I say thank God this way we wont have to deal with each other anyone.. Enjoy gay marriage and contraception, will you fade into nonexistence, we will rebuild from the rubble your generation caused
“This documentary was a waste of time to make. You cannot undo Vatican II. The liturgical reform is irreversible.” Says the dried up boomer who realizes his revolution has been rejected and will die with him
I always laugh at people who do not like the Latin Mass. (which, by the way, no one is required to attend) when one of their beefs is that it is too “rigid”.
Yet when it they sing the praises of Vatican II and the Novus Ordo Mass, they use words like “irreversible”, and “cannot undo Vatican II”.
That sounds pretty “rigid” to me.
It’s not a matter of rigidity, TLMers are failing to walk with the church. Vatican II happened. The liturgy was reformed. Deal with it. Walk with the church. We’re up here, not back there anymore.
“walk with the Church” more modernist platitudes, what you and the rest of modernist want is to surrender to the morals of the world. You want your gay marriage, contraception and abortion, you want it so bad that you cloak in stupid terms like “walking together”. Lies are stills lies no matter how what they are dressed up as.
“bohemond” needs to be corrected here. There is nothing novel nor wrong with the phrase “walking with the Church”, which is a contemporary way of stating a dictum in Catholicism which is “sentire cum Ecclesia” (that’s Latin for “to think with the Church” for you non-Latinists out there). In matters liturgical, moral, and spiritual Catholics are called to believe and to think “with the Church.” What Peter’s successor teaches, what the Magisterium teaches, that is where you find the Church’s mind. The Church’s mind is not with Lefebvre nor with the rest of the beloved SSPX. Soon, if the other ex-Ecclesia Dei communities (like the beloved FSSP and the beloved Institute of Christ the King) continue to drift farther and farther from the Church, they too will cease to “think with the mind of the Church.” And please, adhering to the Church’s devotion to the Ordinary Form does not mean “surrendering to the morals of the world.” That’s ridiculous.
If the mind of Church is accepting mortal sin as the Church in Germany is then mind of the Church is wrong and has fallen in apostasy. More than half the “mind of the Church” accepted Arianism in the 4th century. Would you accuse Athanasius of not thinking with the mind of the Church?
This absurd synod wants to listen the to the sheep. A flock that has NOT been catechized on the Church’s teaching for nearly 2 generations. And yes when I see the rainbow flag flowing and gay men kissing during the ordinary form of mass I know the Church surrendered to the world.
The particular error in reasoning and argumentation that you “bohemond” have committed is a form of fallacy called “hasty generalization”. Look it up. Just because some German bishops are straying from the official teachings of the Church, and just because some renegade parish somewhere has erroneously decided to fly a strange flag somewhere on their property, doesn’t necessarily mean that the Church has a whole has strayed from her own perennial teachings. They do not negate the long-standing admonition to “think with the Church.” They don’t necessarily mean that devotion to the Ordinary Form leads a person to think contrary to what the Church teaches.
Jon doesn’t accept that more than few hierarchs are pushing for the acceptance of homosexuality in Church teaching., and yes that is their and soon to be thinking for the Church.
You’re right that I don’t accept your hearsay. My news-source is not the Church Militant, The Remnant, The Wanderer. So “bohemond”, if you want to know where the mind of the Church is on homosexuality, read this teaching from the CDF which Pope Francis approved: “For this reason, it is not licit to impart a blessing on relationships, or partnerships, even stable, that involve sexual activity outside of marriage (i.e., outside the indissoluble union of a man and a woman open in itself to the transmission of life), as is the case of the unions between persons of the same sex.”
Jon is ignoring the Church in Germany and what they want for the entire Church. this, this is not coming from the Remnant or Church Militant, its coming from Cdl Marx and the Church in Germany. Francis will not correct them., Will you walk with this new Church?
“Walk with the Church?” You mean–“Walk with Pope Francis.” His Church is very different from other popes, like Pope Benedict, Pope St. John Paul II, etc. How about the Pachamama idols? How far will you go??
“bohemond” don’t you see the illogic and the irrationality of your argument? Just because Cardinal Marx says something doesn’t necessarily mean that the Pope will follow, especially if everyone knows that what Marx says is against “the mind of the Church.” As for “Reply to’s” “walking with Francis,” well yeah, that’s right: to “think with the Church” or to “walk with the Church” means “thinking with the Pope.” You both should listen to what St. Ambrose of Milan had taught: “ubi Petrus ibi Ecclesia.”
Hey, someone posted in the story below this one that not everything is about the TLM, so can we have a break from TLM stories please?
I don’t pay attention to articles like this one. They simply reflect personal views of a Catholic layman. Although my personal preference, as a layman, is for the Latin Tridentine Mass, my own concept of an “orthodox Catholic,” is one who is sincerely dedicated to Christ and His teachings, and attends either the old Latin Mass, or a Novus Ordo Mass. Both forms of the Mass are fine. What if one of the “bad German bishops,” who state that the Catechism is “outdated,” and must be “changed,” to accept gay “marriage”– also advocated the Tridentine Latin Mass? Or, what if a priest or bishop in a different diocese, who celebrates the old Latin Mass, disagrees with the orders of Abp. Cordileone to Nancy Pelosi– and freely offers Nancy Holy Communion? Not all Church leaders today, truly follow Christ’s teachings– they are no longer united under Christ’s Catholic banner, and are no longer disciplined by our post-Conciliar Church, when they “go the wrong way.” One has to be very careful.
P.S. I did not watch the movie. But I have long been involved with Latin Tridentine Masses, and I have seen all kinds of people, who love the old Latin Mass. Some are devout, orthodox Catholics, and some are not. I was a music major in college, and have sung in semi-professional Catholic choirs lifelong, with fellow musicians who may or may not be Catholic, and may or may not accept Catholic teachings, or even believe in God; and some may lead very scandalously sinful lives. Yet, our liturgical efforts are a necessity, for the Mass. There are some huge scholars of Gregorian Chant and Catholic liturgy and liturgical music, who love it all– but may shockingly state in class, or in church, at Choir practice– that they love the old Latin Tridentine Catholic liturgy, and love the old Latin Mass– but they are actually– atheists! And these musicians and professors often teach Catholic music and liturgy, especially Gregorian Chant and vocal technique — to priests and prelates in need of learning and mastering these things. Of course– these people are all publicly highly praised and rewarded by everyone, including the popes at the Vatican. You just have to live with it. Sad.
I watched it too. It’s a completely dishonest and tendentious comparison of the TLM and the Novus Ordo, and it shows a lack of understanding of the liturgical reform movement in the Church, and it portrays the liturgical reformers as having sinister motives and intentions.
Pope Francis was right. Bishops, you permit the TLM to be celebrated at the peril of souls. The TLM is the source of division in the church. Unify around the liturgical books published after Vatican II. Thank you.
Not building a bridge by a longshot. They want to destroy the bridge and circle the wagons around the TLM. They are not interested in the Church after Vatican II.
The TLM community is tiny and insignificant globally. If the TLM were so appealing, as they claim it is with the young, they wouldn’t have to make propaganda hit pieces on the Novus Ordo like this is.
I have known gay professional musicians all my life, who have been involved with the Tridentine Latin Mass– also, at times, giving lessons to clergy, helping with every detail of the Mass. Long ago, there was much more Church discipline, and far more of a scare about sin and Hell– but private lives were usually kept private. And today, although private lives may still be kept private– unfortunately, there is sometimes very little respect for Christ’s teachings, and the necessity of leading a good life. A bishop or pastor may not know, exactly, how dedicated a Church employee may be, to Our Lord, and how “clean” their life might be. Many– even dedicated, “orthodox” Catholic clerics– fear firing employees who reveal gay unions. And they heavily depend on these employees, for the Mass!
Non sequitur? Wait, what?
I think you’re confusing this movie’s building a bridge with Fr. James Martin’s building a bridge to LGBT. They’re different.
Regardless of what kind of Mass you attend, it is highly important to love and obey Christ, and follow His teachings. I have always loved the Tridentine Latin Mass. However– if a priest like Fr. James Martin, S.J., offered the Latin Tridentine Mass daily, in a Catholic church down the street from where I live, let’s say — I would join in a great, big protest, to shut down his Mass, stop his false preaching, and end his gay couples’ programs. There are all kinds of people who love the old Latin Mass, you know– but not all are faithful, orthodox Catholics.
Excuse me, “Reply to” but if you were to interfere at a religious event in order to shut it down you can be arrested and tried as a felon. Interfering at a religious event is illegal in this country. A religious event is safeguarded by the laws of the U.S., by the Constitution no less. Why are you seemingly hateful of such people, even if what they preach is wrong? Why so much hate that you would dare stop Holy Sacrifice of the Mass just because of the priest whom you do not like? We are not Donatists, meaning that the Sacrament of the Mass is valid regardless of the sanctity of the priest offering it. Why such hate?
I have been asked to sign countless parents’ and college students’ national petitions, against Fr. James Martin S.J., being asked to speak at Catholic schools and universities. Where does this ever end?
P.S. I did not watch the movie.
P.P.S. I did watch it.
Vatican II all the way! I”m a novus ordo guy!
Undo Vatican 2 the blight on Holy Mother Church
I agree with you, bohemond. Except for one thing– I think it is very good, that the Catholic Church, with ecumenical efforts, has tried to put an end to centuries of anti-Semitism, and cruelty to all non-Catholics– Jews, Protestants, etc. That part is good, although the Church has gone way too far with it.
I suggest you read 1 thessalonians 2 and get back to me
Before Vatican II, bohemond, the Catholic Church was unreasonably malicious to Jews, Protestants, and others. You can disagree with others without being malicious. Thank goodness, not all Catholic laymen and clerics actually felt or behaved maliciously to Jews, Protestants, and others.
Besides reading 1 thessalonians 2, I suggest you research who was/is behind usury and pornography, who supported Arians, the Moors in Spain and the Communist throughout the world but especially in Russia.
Bohemond, you did not read my comment at all. Everyone knows, the Catholic Church had lots of problems with Anti-Semitism and malice towards Protestants, before Vatican II. Nice that for one thing, Pope Benedict made some changes to Anti-Semitism in the old Good Friday service. If our own Church has any “bad Catholics,” the Code of Canon Law is the correct source of discipline.
Christians believe in the Love of God, not waging holy wars over religious differences, like the jihadist Muslims.
The enemies of the Church (and yes we do have them) must be confronted and opposed, Unfortunately many of them are inside the Church
New Mass for a new ‘church’. The Mass of all Time, the Latin Mass reflects the timelessness of Christ’s Teachings and that of His Church. The New Mass reflects the divorce from sound doctrine and teaching that the “spirit” of Vatican II represents. If the liturgy that had been in place for the better part of 1500 could be changed in such a radical way, then all the traditions and teaching could be too. The Church has been here before, when most Catholics were embracing Arianism and only a remnant, such as St. Athanasius were adhering to the true Faith.
I agree with you, Clinton R.
I will never agree with the Clintons.
Why would anyone?
There is no “New Mass” or “Old Mass”. There is “MASS” with differences in the accidents of Mass not the essence of Mass.