Blogs from canon lawyer and Father Z.

The following comes from the February 7 canon law blog of Ed Peters.

In March 2010, I expressed the view that Nancy Pelosi’s protracted and public anti-life conduct, which she repeatedly justifies with (twisted takes on) the Catholic faith, sufficed, in my view, to bring about her debarment from the reception of holy Communion under Canon 915.

If Pelosi’s “prolonged public conduct does not qualify as obstinate perseverance in manifest grave sin,” I wrote two years ago, “then, in all sincerity, I must admit to not knowing what would constitute obstinate perseverance in manifest grave sin.” 

It’s now February of 2012, and nothing in Pelosi’s conduct over the last 23 months suggests any emendation of her attitudes toward killing unborn babies, etc., etc., etc. Indeed her recent call for Catholics qua Catholics to unite behind, of all things!, President Obama’s plan to impose immoral policies on private medical insurance plans – which call provoked the moving cri de coeur from Father Zuhlsdorf – suggests that Pelosi’s views, like Pharaoh’s heart, have only hardened with time.

Canon 915, as I and others have explained many times, is not about impositions on individual conscience, it’s about public consequences for public behavior. It’s about taking people at their word and acknowledging the character of their actions. It’s about not pretending that people don’t really mean what they repeatedly say and what they repeatedly do.

Nancy Pelosi obviously means exactly what she says, and she regularly backs up her words with deeds. She deserves to be taken seriously. Very seriously.

As a canon lawyer, my view is that Nancy Pelosi deserves to be deprived of holy Communion as the just consequence of her public actions; as her fellow Catholic, my view is that Nancy Pelosi deserves to be deprived of holy Communion to bring home to her and to the wider faith community the gravity of her conduct and the need to avoid such conduct altogether or, that failing, at least to repent of it. Quickly.

Update, 8 Feb 2012: HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius, a major proponent of the Obama administration’s push to mandate contraceptive coverage regardless of religious conviction, is already barred from holy Communion as a result of her pro-abortion activities while governor of Kansas. Bishops in the Washington DC area declared their intention to honor Bp. Naumann’s 2008 directive, and I’ve not heard of any change in the situation.

In other words, no reasonably well-informed Catholic believes that, in conducting herself as she does, Sebelius is acting as a Catholic entrusted with high public office ought to act. Thus, the scandal that Sebelius gives is significantly reduced.

The same cannot be said of Pelosi.

https://canonlawblog.wordpress.com/2012/02/07/nancy-pelosi-deserves-to-be-taken-seriously-very-seriously/

The following comes from a February 7 blog by Father Zuhlsdorf

Nancy Pelosi (D-CA), catholic and openly an abortion absolutist, is from the Archdiocese of San Francisco, but she spends most of her time in Washington DC. She has at least quasi-domicile in the Archdiocese of Washington DC.

She is Archbishop Niederauer’s and Card. Wuerl’s subject it seems, and yet – year after year – she, saying openly that she is “catholic”, runs her mouth off with deeply and stupidly wicked remarks such as what follows.

From Life Site News:

February 6, 2012 (LifeSiteNews.com) – Even as the United States’ Catholic bishops have launched an all-out campaign against the Obama administration’s birth control mandate and urged their flocks to resistance, House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi has invoked the support of “fellow Catholics” to justify her position in favor of the mandate.

Pelosi was confronted at last Wednesday’s press briefing by a reporter from CNSnews.com, who began by pointing out that the mandate, which requires all employers to cover all sterilizations and contraception, including drugs that can cause early abortions, forces Catholic individuals and institutions to act against Church teaching.

Irritated, Pelosi, a self-professed devout Catholic, [catholic] interrupted: “Is this a speech, or do we have a question in disguise as a speech?”

The reporter continued, citing a letter from the U.S. bishops, in which the bishops vowed not to comply with the law, and asked: “will you stand with your fellow Catholics in resisting this law or will you stick by the Administration?”

[Pelosi answered:] “First of all, I am going to stick with my fellow Catholics in supporting the Administration on this. I think it was a very courageous decision that they made, and I support it,” the minority leader responded. [I’m going to stick with my fellow Catholics?]

[…]

In an interview with the Washington Post this past November, she acknowledged that many Catholics object to being forced to fund abortions, noting that “they have this conscience thing.”

The former speaker has also said she has “some areas of disagreement” with the country’s bishops, and has claimed that Catholicism does not necessarily condemn abortion.

I call upon Archbishop Niederauer and Card. Wuerl openly to state that Rep. Pelosi should not present herself for Holy Communion in their respective dioceses.

Nancy Pelosi considers it consistent with what Catholics do to take a stand against the bishops in favor of a policy that would force Catholic institutions to violate the teachings of her Church.

Pelosi is a highly public figure. Few people are more visible. She is committing the mortal sin of scandalizing the faithful in a matter which unquestionably grave matter. There has been all manner of discussion concerning her and the issues of abortion, contraception, when life begins, etc. She can’t plead ignorance of the Church’s teachings. She continues to be openly, publicly, scandalous in these matters.

Now, she is taking an open stand against the American bishops – precisely claiming her catholic identity – in favor of a manifest attack on the Catholic Church by the most aggressively pro-abortion President we have ever seen.

Your Excellency? Your Eminence? How much longer does this have to go on? What else does she have to do?

For the good of souls, Nancy Pelosi must be denied Holy Communion and the Catholic people should be informed that she is being denied Holy Communion.

“But Father! But Father!” some of you are saying. “What about the… the… the… national repercussions? *sputter* What about the media firestorm?”

Damn straight!

Let there be national repercussions and a media firestorm.

UPDATE:
Here is the new Can. 915 swag you can get.

 

READER COMMENTS

Posted Tuesday, February 14, 2012 3:30 AM By Joe
Haven’t both Pelosi and Sibelius excommunicated themselves from the Church for their stand on abortion, and, therefore, deprived themselves from reception of the Eucharist without anyone doing it for them?

Posted Tuesday, February 14, 2012 3:43 AM By Juergensen
Not just Pelosi. Kmiec and his minions, who lead Catholics to vote for Obama – an abortion absolutist – must be denied the Holy Eucharist too.

Posted Tuesday, February 14, 2012 5:16 AM By Ted
Leadership often requires that difficult decisions must be taken and stood by for the good of all. Both of Pelosi’s bishops have cowered and done little leading in this matter. If she is allowed to remain mostly unchallenged, these two “Defenders of the Faith” lose all claims to credibility. We lay people will largely support the strongest Church penalties for the former Speaker, especially if and when these two men quit dissembling and do what the Church needs to be done. She has to be excommunicated and mandated to obey the Church in her public and private life. Anything else should make the laity request action from the Vatican to replace both bishops. They need to lead or retire. It’s far beyond scandalous now, what are they waiting for ?

Posted Tuesday, February 14, 2012 5:18 AM By Canisius
Excommunicate PUBLICLY NOW

Posted Tuesday, February 14, 2012 5:45 AM By Dog Mugwump
Pelosi, Biden, Sibelius, Kmiec…. the list continues and the corrections of the bishops is silent. These individuals warrant public correction and refusal of Holy Communion. Pope Benedict XVI refused a public “photo opp” with Nancy Pelosi and her troup who attended the Holy Father’s Wednesday Audience (a public event). Instead, he brought her to a side room and it was reported that he “educated” her on Catholic teaching on abortion. No pictures were allowed, no “teaching platform” was given to her to spout error in the name of the Church. The Bishops responsible (their parish pastors as well) are demonstrating a false compassion and going against Church teaching themselves through permitting as the author of this article indicates, an “obstinate perseverance in manifest grave sin.” What is so particularly distressing is the good that these individual leaders could have done for the common good and the integral development of people in general. God have mercy on the Church and this wayward country. The sin against the Holy Spirit bears the fruit of a gutless leadership in many of our spiritual shepherds,

Posted Tuesday, February 14, 2012 5:47 AM By Sandra
We will throw ourselves into Hell. God gives us that free will. Pelosi and Sibelius, and those that walk the “wide path to destruction” will one day know that judgement. As committed Catholics we will pray for souls that are not walking the “narrow path”. Jesus Mary and Joseph save souls!

Posted Tuesday, February 14, 2012 6:25 AM By Jo Ann Reyes
When you take communion which we do know is the Lords body, blood, soul and divinity, they take their own comdemnation. There is nothing that a bishop can do to them that would justify their punishment. They will be be held accountable just as any abortionist for the murder of the little one of God.

Posted Tuesday, February 14, 2012 8:10 AM By WOODY GUIDRY
LEAVE NANCY ALONE-FOR THOSE WITH EVEN A SEMI-ADULT PERSPECTIVE, SHE IS A MODERN EXAMPLE OF WHAT A REAL JUDAS LOOKS LIKE. THE ONLY INTELLECTUAL QUESTION IS— HOW MUCH INFLATED U.S. CASH EQUALS THIRTY PIECES OF SILVER.

Posted Tuesday, February 14, 2012 8:31 AM By Laurette Elsberry
I agree with the writers who remind us that the likes of Pelosi, Sibilius and Biden have incurred automatic excommunication. These three will have to account for their actions before God. It is vitally important, however, that their public acts of apostacy be denounced by their bishops so that all Catholics can know the evil that has been wrought. This way they will be strong examples that abortion, contraception and sterilization are mortal sins which merit separation from the Sacraments (Penance excepted). They must publicly repudiate their beliefs. Pray for this trio and all those who defend their evil efforts.

Posted Tuesday, February 14, 2012 8:35 AM By Catherine
Juergensen, In response to your 6:25 AM post. When it comes to showing true love and true respect for Our Lord, would not Christ’s words apply to those individuals who knowingly hand Our Lord over to the individuals who mock him and spit on him with their obstinate sinfulness in promoting evil? “But whosoever shall deny me before men I will also deny him before my Father.” Yes, the profanation of the Blessed Sacrament is denying Christ the dignity that he is most entitled to before men. Our shepherds should be more outraged by this disrespectful attack on our Lord. We are now facing Obama’s mandate precisely due to the lack of a long awaited mandate to enforce Canon 915. In other words, If you can deny me that respect before men, then do not be surprised if your religious freedom is denied too. “Without me you are nothing!” Will our shepherds be denied before the Father because they have failed to mandate respect for his son, by mandating the enforcing of Canon 915? Once again I commend you Juergensen for always having the courage to not only defend the Blessed Sacrament but to also demonstrate the true meaning of filial charity in trying to awaken those who have been in slumber from facing those most dire consequences.

Posted Tuesday, February 14, 2012 8:53 AM By PatC
Cardinal Designate Dolan – As leader of the USCCB we look to you for leadership on this. If the locals won’t lead, you need to step into this void and show the “people in the pews” that the laws of God are to be taken seriously. Enough already with the failure to act. Lead by example sir.

Posted Tuesday, February 14, 2012 9:03 AM By MIKE
The MORTAL Sins of SCANDAL and SACRILEGE are PUBLIC sins and must be corrected PUBLICALLY by the Bishops to save the Souls of others who would be lead astray by these so-called Catholic leaders. On the internet please read: “The Discipline Regarding the Denial of Holy Communion to Those Obstinately Persevering in Manifest Grave Sin” by Cardinal R. Burke. And those who VOTE for these politicians when there is a choice commit mortal sin as well and may not receive Holy Communion. See “Worthiness to Receive Holy Communion, General Principles” by Cardinal Ratzinger,

Posted Tuesday, February 14, 2012 10:06 AM By pete
I’m afraid that a likelypublic declaration that Pelosi is barred from Holy Communion will have to wait till a new Archbishop will be appointed to SF. Sibelius needs to be PUBLICALLY EXCOMMUNICATED because of her AGGRESSIVE PROMOTION OF ABORTION AND SPECIFIC INSISTENCE ON DOMINATING THE CHURCH FROM HER FEDERAL PERCH.

Posted Tuesday, February 14, 2012 10:12 AM By Maryanne Leonard
Why have these publicly disobedient, defiant, Catholics in Name Only not be denied communion before? What is stopping it now? Why should disobedient “Catholic” politicians be allowed to call themselves Catholic when clearly they are not one of us? Why do they keep enjoying the Catholic vote? How can we stop this?

Posted Tuesday, February 14, 2012 10:28 AM By Idaho Pete
Does anyone know of any other entity, be it religious, business, military, civil, etc. that allows, supposed devout members to consistently ignore its teachings, rules, laws in a continuous scandalous manner, reflecting and bringing shame and damage to that very entity without its leadership eventually acting by either removing or disciplining said member? Only the Catholic Church comes to my mind and it grew by one more apostate Catholic Gov. Gregoire of Washington state who signed into law same sex marriage. The reason they are able to do this as they the apostates know nothing will happen to them and it only encourages more of them to ignore the Church. There is no rational answer any longer by any cleric as to why disiplinary action is not called for. It’s time for a line in the sand to be drawn and the bishops to act. The laity should be screaming at the top of their lungs calling for actions. I have often.

Posted Tuesday, February 14, 2012 10:36 AM By goodcause
The denial of Holy Communion is a slippery slope that the Church should use with extreme caution after serious discrenment. What Catholic hasn’t said something publicly that is contrary to the Holy See’s view of something? If Pelosi can be denied Communion for her abortion stqatements, do other Catholics that reject the teachings on the Pope on the pill or other non-abortion forms of Birth Control suffer the same fate? (That’s 90% of the California Catholic population.) Do we give them all their walking papers simultaneously? Those who clamor for denying Communion are not simply leading the charge for a much smaller Church comprised solely of narrow followers, but also making Catholicism a “don’t ask, don’t tell” faith culture. We should continue to oppose abortion just as ardently as we seek dialogue, understanding and common ground with those who disagree with us with the Church.

Posted Tuesday, February 14, 2012 11:54 AM By JMJ
Maybe your tongue-in-cheek comment might have meant to be funny (I hope so), but the fact is, that she is our sister and this goes to our brothers, such as Biden & Kerry (he seems to be quite on this so far, probably hasn’t gotten past the comic section yet) that calls themselves “catholic”, but, are not walking their talk. It pains Heaven very much (remember the suffering of Jesus in the Garden, and all that he endured for ALL OF US) when someone falls from the Grace of God and falls into the pits of hell. We must pray for our fallen brothers, sisters and all those that have left God’s Church or never were are part of His only one True Church. +JMJ+

Posted Tuesday, February 14, 2012 1:16 PM By steven
Wow. Lots of condemnation for Bishop Neiderhauer and Cardinal Wuerl. People, are you reading what you are writing? How do we know these SUCCESSORS TO THE APOSTLES have not already acted on this matter? Is it our business to know these things? How often have we presented ourselves for Holy Communion when we SHOULD NOT HAVE? Ask yourselves this before condemning others. YES, it is scandalous. YES we are outraged by the sin of abortion. To condemn others serves no one. We need to speak with our VOTES.

Posted Tuesday, February 14, 2012 2:37 PM By Timothy
Joe I agree with you. I think they (Pelosi, Sebelius, Kerry, and other pro-choice/death once catholic politicians) have excommunicated themselves ipso facto. Until they repent publicly and confess their sins privately in the confessional before a holy priest, they should not be viewed and respected as nor accepted back into the catholic church. To bad they can not have a seiance with a few dead, pro-death/choice once catholic politicians (like Teddy Kennedy) to get a little feedback and find out whether or not politicians pro-death/choic actions excommunicated them ipso facto and rewarded them with a hot seat in hell.

Posted Tuesday, February 14, 2012 3:53 PM By Joe
40 plus years of this nonsence. Did Christ himself lose his patience in the temple or not. Those in postions of authority need to step up and stop being tight liped about this. These are soals we are talking about including your own.

Posted Tuesday, February 14, 2012 4:11 PM By Denise
so why is the Pelosi Gang so sure of themselves, always confident they will be denied nothing, especially not communion. Oh silly us pew Catholics, don’t we know whose writing the checks? this is big bucks and the dems love writing checks using taxpayer dollars to the Church under the guise of Catholic Charities and hospitals and schools… where do you think your school lunch program is coming from, Sunday’s basket? well think again. Ya know, if your charitable pocket is funded by the government and all the contributions coming from the pew can go to other things like paying off lawyers and lawsuits, fancy beach houses etc. etc. you’re not going to want to give that up, are ya . this will continue to be a huge problem until the Bishops are willing to let go of all the government hand outs

Posted Tuesday, February 14, 2012 7:39 PM By Life Lady
Agree with everyone that this is scandelous, and all the rest. How much of your own ability to approach the altar has been impeeded by hers and others’ actions? How much of your own prayer life has suffered by hers and others’ actions? I am not denying that this is serious, and the thought of these people’s actions reminds me of the Agony in the Garden, when Jesus sweat His own blood from the very thought of the sins he was going to account for, and likely He saw all of these, and more. The people who expect the bishops to voice hers and others’ excommunication may as well expect it to rain in the Gobi desert. I hear that chance is extremely slim. Yes, we can voice our concerns, and be outraged, and all, and then we can all get down to the real business of the calling to our Faith, and pray for those in error. When they present themselves for Holy Communion, and defile the Body of Christ by receiving Him unworthily, they call down their own condemnation upon themselves, and how sad for them, because God will not be mocked, and His idea of how to answer them, and others, is way beyond what you or i would do. It is way beyond us, also, to think of the appropriate answer to their obstinence. Take heed, lest you yourself become like one of them. You may not do it in the same way, but there could be something that you are doing that is seen as justifyably in need of correction, and when it happens to you, think of how much God loves you, and praise Him for correcting you in your error. I can only hope that she will see it that way, but unless she repents of her own will to support abortion, publicly, and her willingness to cause scandal among her fellow Catholics, Ms. Pelosi is in for a very long and decidedly heavy fall from grace. She doesn’t see that now, but when she does, I hope she has the grace to repent and doesn’t suffer the pains of Hell. I would not wish that on anyone. In the meantime, next time you receive Him, be certain to do it worthily.

Posted Tuesday, February 14, 2012 8:00 PM By Anne T.
Good Cause, making an off the cuff comment now and then, especially when one does not know the actual teaching of the Church is not a matter for excommunication, but obstinate perserverance in manifest sin is a matter for excommunication.

Posted Tuesday, February 14, 2012 9:16 PM By Nightingale
Have some of you folks not read the Scriptures? In 1 Corinthians 5, St Paul had very harsh words for the believers who were tolerating sexual immorality: that of a man who was sleeping with his father’s wife. Paul condemned the church for their inaction, and passed judgement on the man for his behavior. Paul said this church was to remove this man from their fellowship, and hand him over to Satan. The idea was that by allowing this man to stay in the church, the brethren were in danger of following him down the same path; and by excommunicating the man, there was hope that he would repent and save his soul. Paul was instructing the Corinthian church to toss this guy out for adultery; I wonder what he would have said about the murder of innocent babies?! And for those who think their own sins should silence them on this issue of abortion, there is a huge difference between besetting sins that we battle daily, and outright rebellion and defiance of Church authority. And just so you know, the man in 1 Corinthians repents and is restored in 2 Corinthians 2:5-8. Would that the Church would discipline the flock for the sake of their eternal souls.

Posted Tuesday, February 14, 2012 11:48 PM By Kenneth M. Fisher
Fr. Z states “I call upon Archbishop Niederauer and Card. Wuerl openly to state that Rep. Pelosi should not present herself for Holy Communion in their respective dioceses.” Yet another statement of weakness. How about “cannot instead of “should not”, and how about instructiong their priests to honor their instructions. Oh yes, how can they do that when they don’t even honor the Vatican’s instructions on Canon 915? God bless, yours in Their Hearts, Kenneth M. Fisher

Posted Wednesday, February 15, 2012 1:16 AM By Peggy
Is anyone holding their breath that Ab. Niederauer will demand that Pelosi not receive Communion?? I will bet that it is not going to happen. He will have to answer to God for this omission. And, how about Jackie Speier? Anyone Catholic politician with a “D” after their name is a friend of Niederauer and the Archdiocese.

Posted Wednesday, February 15, 2012 4:55 AM By OSCAR
My concern is for all those who murder babies due to the actions and example (publically verbal and public voting records) of Obama, Pelosi, Boxer, Feinstien, Biden, Kerry, etc., as well as STATE officials who support abortion. Those who VOTED for these monsters will have to answer to God as well. Their public positions have been known for years, and as part of their penance they should work to elect decent candidates – Because these VOTERS have foisted this evil upon our Country. Anyone who owns a computer has access to politicians voting records.

Posted Wednesday, February 15, 2012 5:28 AM By MIKE
Good job- Fisher 12:09am post. On the internet, please read: “The Discipline Regarding the Denial of Holy Communion to Those Obstinately Persevering in Manifest Grave Sin” by Cardinal R. Burke. This is posted on the ‘real presence.org ‘ web site. We are talking not only about SCANDAL, but SACRILEGE against the Body and Blood of Our Lord. I recommend that you print this out and send it to your Diocese Bishop. The responsibility is with not only BISHOPS but PRIESTS, and Ministers of Holy Communion. QUOTE: “…..describes the principle which underlies the discipline of can. 855. He reminds us that the minister of Holy Communion is held, under pain of mortal sin, to deny the sacraments to the unworthy, that is, to those who are indeed a capable subject of the sacrament, but are not able to receive its effect, because they are in the state of mortal sin without the will of reforming themselves”. “The dignity itself of the sacraments and the virtue of religion demand it, lest sacred things be exposed to profanation; the fidelity of the minister demands it, who is forbidden to give holy things to the dogs and to throw pearls before the swine; the law of charity demands it, lest the minister cooperate with those who unworthily attempt and dare to receive the sacraments, and offer scandal.” UNQUOTE.

Posted Wednesday, February 15, 2012 5:34 AM By MIKE
cont. QUOTE: ” Finally, the discipline must be applied in order to avoid serious scandal, for example, the erroneous acceptance of procured abortion against the constant teaching of the moral law. No matter how often a Bishop or priest repeats the teaching of the Church regarding procured abortion, if he stands by and does nothing to discipline a Catholic who publicly supports legislation permitting the gravest of injustices and, at the same time, presents himself to receive Holy Communion, then his teaching rings hollow. To remain silent is to permit serious confusion regarding a fundamental truth of the moral law. Confusion, of course, is one of the most insidious fruits of scandalous behavior.” UNQUOTE

Posted Wednesday, February 15, 2012 8:24 AM By Maryanne Leonard
Archbishop Dolan is not the boss of his brother bishops; he is the head of an organization of American bishops which they have formed. He is not in a position to tell them what to do. It doesn’t work that way, unfortunately – or actually, fortunately, considering some of the leadership of the past.

Posted Wednesday, February 15, 2012 8:30 AM By JMJ
My reply above was meant for Woody Guidry telling us to leave Pelosi alone. The truth is, she should leave us Catholics alone. To JOHN F. MAGUIRE, very well put, despite it being over the head(s) of some. Thank you for opening the window, so to speak. +JMJ+

Posted Wednesday, February 15, 2012 6:45 PM By Delilah
Just remember, if you receive Holy Communion in a state of mortal sin, and that is exactly what Pelosi and her minions are doing, you are commiting sacrilege and thereby putting your immortal soul in grave danger. Yes, we must pray for those travelling the wide path. Our Lady of Guadalupe, pray for us and our country. Pax

Posted Wednesday, February 15, 2012 8:38 PM By Linda Maria
These bull-headed wayward Catholic politicians are NOT delicate psychiatric cases, requiring exceptional love and care, by the Church! Of course not! They are strong, healthy, powerful, bull-headed people, inten on their wrongful beliefs and actions! They need their Bishop to take a strong, clear stand, warn them nicely but firmly, and then if they refuse to repent– excommunicate! That is part of a Pope and a Bishop’s job!

Posted Thursday, February 16, 2012 12:01 AM By Kenneth M. Fisher
Delilah, I hopefully have started a movement over the internet to get people of faith to say to their neighbors, and acquaintances when leaving them “God bless, please pray for our Country”! This goes for over the telephone as well. If enough do this, perhaps God will once again save this once great Nation. God bless, yours in Their Hearts, Kenneth M. Fisher

Posted Thursday, February 16, 2012 3:24 AM By Betty
Pray for all the Souls that are being lost due to the Scandal of these so-called “Catholics”, and for the Bishops who do nothing to correct their public scandal, and participate in Sacrilege.

Posted Thursday, February 16, 2012 6:00 AM By k
Nancy Pelosi said that she is pro-choice because she supports free will. Now she supports coercing people against their will to provide birth control. Go figure.

Posted Thursday, February 16, 2012 12:55 PM By Larry
Add my voice to those many others both here at the CCD thread and elsewhere who believe it imperative that Canon 915 be applied against Nancy Pelosi now by Ab. Niederauer and with collaboration from Ab. Wuerl.

Posted Thursday, February 16, 2012 3:18 PM By Anne T.
K, to your post at 12:55 PM, I say exactly. The left has been coercing people to pay for contraception and abortions for years. Women have even been corerced into having abortions against their will. Students have been coerced in sex education classes to be coed instead of having the girls separate from the boys.

Posted Thursday, February 16, 2012 9:35 PM By JLS
More corrupt attempts to reason: Confuse the very simple concept that some states would outlaw abortion if allowed that choice by the federal govt. Obviously if some states outlawed abortion, then fewer babies would be aborted each year in the USA. Sure, some women would cross state lines for an abortion, but many would not.

Posted Friday, February 17, 2012 5:27 AM By OSCAR
MAGUIRE, you are purposely committing a serious error to confuse people into voting for your Democrats. 1) There are no National or State Republican Platforms that state – States should hold the prerogotive for or against abortion. 2) The Democratic Party – the Party of Death – does state approval of abortion in its National Platform. 3) You must admit that based upon voting records, there are far more Democrats in office today that are pro-abortion than Republicans. 4) None of the names you mentioned in your 2/16 6:15pm email hold Federal Elected office today. 5) It is a trick of those supporting certain of today’s politicans to try and confuse historical figures with those holding office TODAY. Each INDIVIDUAL politican holding office TODAY must stand on his or her own merits and moral compass. This is determined by his/her own public actions and public voting record, not by the actions of others – including your attempt to lump everyone together to cause confusion.

Posted Friday, February 17, 2012 10:28 AM By Abeca Christian
JLS I second that notion! Si Senorita! No to El Senior!

Posted Friday, February 17, 2012 12:26 PM By JLS
Maguire, your “deviationist” post is disordered. You’re trying to reduce Catholicism into a shoebox full of old dairy farmer boots.

Posted Friday, February 17, 2012 12:38 PM By John F. Maguire
Oscar: (1) My posts on voting ethics are NOT motivated by partisanship. (2) I cited four Republicans who are representative of the state-prerogativist position: Nixon, Ford, Scalia, and Romney. ~ None of these Republicans hold office today, you point out in reply. REJOINDER: I would point out that President Richard Nixon, in 1971, was the first President to endorse state-prerogativsm. In so doing, Mr. Nixon thereby conveyed a signal to the Supreme Court that the Executive Branch does NOT hold that preborn infants are persons under the 14th Amendment. Also, in so doing, Mr. Nixon inaugurated a state-prerogativist tradition WITHIN the Republican Party. That tradition, Oscar, is alive today in the GOP. Catholics have a right to a heads-up on this fact. ~ Moreover, there is the probability — how high or low a probability can only be dimly discerned — that Governor Mitt Romney might prevail in the 2012 election. Governor Romney is a state-prerogativist. Catholics have a right to know that, do they not? ~ My critique of Neo-Republican state-prerogativsm is submitted for the sake of clearly defining the political situation, not to blow the bugle for the Democratic Party. In point of fact, the only integral pro-life candidate in the contest for the office of President is Senator Rick Santorum. ~ This is my understanding of the situation, Oscar — your claim that I’m “deliberately confusing people” to vote for Democrats is false.

Posted Friday, February 17, 2012 4:34 PM By k
Metatalk is talking about how you are going to talk to each other. Some of us come on here with the ideals that all should feel included and respected. That they are equal people and should be heard, corrected (if need be), and loved. People should be able to discern their own personal beliefs from the beliefs of the Catholic Faith and they are allowed to express their beliefs. Others can respectfully disagree. We can point out how their beliefs might conflict with Catholic Teaching, but we should never promote our personal beliefs as if they are Catholic Teaching. With the poor catechesis that has existed in the US Church for so many decades, there is confusion and legitimate disagreement. Of course, no one is bound to subscribe to these ideals. Sometimes people want to be humorous at someone’s elses’ expense; sometimes a poster cannot express their disagreement with an idea, but needs to hurt or denigrate the other person for saying something they disagree with. People vary in their communication skills and in their tolerance of opinions that are different than theirs. CCD permits posts that no other Catholic website I have ever been on will post. So we deal with it.

Posted Friday, February 17, 2012 5:21 PM By Anne T.
As for “civility”, the Lord Jesus Christ was not always “civil”. He was not “civil” when he called the scribes and pharisees whited sepulchers. He was not “civil” with the money changers. He was not “civil” when he said not to give the children’s food to the dogs — implying those who would not repent and accept his teachings. Christ and many of the Saints could be very “uncivil” at times when important teachings were at stake.

Posted Friday, February 17, 2012 5:58 PM By JLS
“Equal people”, k? Why, then, does God reward some more than others and punish some more than others? “Equal” is a concept that is valid in mathematics, not religion.

Posted Friday, February 17, 2012 7:59 PM By Maryanne Leonard
k, I agree with your post. We deal with it and in fact are both enriched and strengthened when we are clearly confronted with opinions are in direct conflict with either reason itself or true Catholic teachins (and generally it is both at the same time). It is similar to a class on debate and no doubt helps clarify for many of us some things about which we were either hazy or perplexed, especially those things which have come into existence in recent decades which don’t seem or feel “right.” Turns out, as we learn, that our instincts are right, and we get to strengthen our convictions by exercising our hearts, souls and brains. Not a bad deal for the price, an investment of time and thoughtful consideration, but boy, some of these outrageous posts are hard to take sometimes, aren’t they? Especially when they attack other posters or even the good people who work at California Catholic Daily to bring us this informative website.

Posted Friday, February 17, 2012 10:55 PM By k
I’ve been thinking about Ms. Pelosi and I have to admit to extreme irritation at her flip, smart-mouthed response of “sticking with her fellow Catholics in supporting the Administration.” So I may be off on this-but I’ve become interested in a psychological concept called personal mythmaking. It is usually used to help people out of self-destructive behaviors (in it’s best use.) However it has got me thinking. How do people like Ms Pelosi continue to be so vocal in support of evil and receive communion even after they have been admonished by their bishops? So my theory (and it’s in it embryonic stage) is that having been given Divine Truth with its beliefs and morality, part of it becomes inconvenient for them. Rather than just saying “Well I don’t believe what the Catholic Church believes so I will go to a different church or no church” like many people do, they create a substitute belief-a myth, that allows them to continue in the Catholic faith and also believe what they want. Ms. Pelosi may have substituted a belief in Divine Revelation coming through Scripture and Tradition and the Magisterium for a myth of Divine Revelation coming through her own prayer experience or through the witness of so many Catholics who support disobedience. Apparently, there is a article where one of her daughters said that she was taught in Catholic school that abortion was a personal choice. So it may also be that Catholics that were trusted to teach the Truth inserted their own personal myths into the Pelosi’s faith. But she was admonished by the Pope, himself. Her daughter said that Pelosi has always been faithful to the church but that the church has not been faithful to her because of her politics. Have they substituted an idea of loyalty for faith? How do you get a personal myth that the Church should be faithful to you? Truly weird.

Posted Saturday, February 18, 2012 1:13 AM By Abeca Christian
JLS right on!

Posted Saturday, February 18, 2012 2:08 AM By OSCAR
Maguire, the opinon of ‘four’ Republicans is not that of the Republican Party, and never has been. That is your false premise. And any of the Republican candidates for President would be better than OBAMA – who not only supports baby killing and sodomy but promotes it. I personally agree that Rick Santorum is the best of the Republicans running. Let us all pray for our Country. For the most part, California needs to get rid of Pelosi, Fienstien, and Boxer, not to mention Moonbeam and others at the State level. Do you intend to actually work for the most moral candidates?

Posted Saturday, February 18, 2012 8:00 AM By Catherine
k asks, “How do you get a personal myth that the Church should be faithful to you?” You get a personal myth that the Church should be faithful to you when you fool yourself by trying to change the Gospel and the minds of others to suit personal sin.

Posted Saturday, February 18, 2012 9:17 AM By k
JLS, the Catholic Church teaches that all people are equal in dignity; all created in the image and likeness of God.

Posted Saturday, February 18, 2012 10:35 AM By Abeca Christian
OSCAR I agree Rick Santorum is the best choice! I pray that we can get him elected.

Posted Saturday, February 18, 2012 11:57 AM By k
Anne T. yes Jesus was “uncivil” at those times. He could see the souls of the Pharisees-we can’t. He knew the intentions of the money changers-we don’t. Giving the food of the children to the dogs was a reference to the Gentiles, not to who would not convert. Maybe you meant “Do not give to the dogs what is holy. Do not throw your pearls before swine lest they trample them underfoot and turn to attack you.” Matthew 7:6

Posted Saturday, February 18, 2012 1:37 PM By Anne T.
K, thank you for the correction. You are right. Nevertheless, I reverted back to the Church because a very good priest had the audacity to preach a “hell fire” sermon one day and call heresy exactly what it was — heresy. I realized where I was wrong through his sermon. Although I had been scandalized by some behavior by some members of the Church, that did not give me the right to leave it. In fact, he called those who left “trash”. So you see, k, sometimes a little “uncivility” works. We do know that some who leave the Church because they are scandalized, do leave with good intentions and consciences and are not trash, but some do leave the Church with bad consciences. As I have said before this, “Whatever works.”

Posted Saturday, February 18, 2012 1:43 PM By Anne T.
K, that same priest was the one who later on gave me the excellent advice against the birthcontrol pill that saved my life. May he rest forever in peace.

Posted Saturday, February 18, 2012 2:01 PM By Anne T.
K, I meant your interpretation of the two scriptures about “dogs” is correct. I meant to use the latter one. I do believe, though, that sometimes, through the Holy Spirit, some are inspired to use what people might think are uncivil methods to prick consciences and bring those in error back to the Church, or even into the Church. Civility does not always work for some. Sometimes a person needs a real “kick in the seat of their pants” to wake them up. God does use this method at times, and sometimes he uses it through other people.

Posted Saturday, February 18, 2012 8:19 PM By MAC
k. if Pelosi read the CCC, there would be no issue with ignorance. She has an obligation to check things out since clearly some Bishops have talked to her, and she keeps complaining about them to the Media. There are no excuses in the literate USA.

Posted Saturday, February 18, 2012 9:11 PM By k
Anne T., yes I believe that you are correct. All things work together for the good ot those who love God. Whatever works,if it is for the good of someone’s soul. As Christians, we can never do evil to bring about good. so we need to be careful to not be self-indulgent in it. Sins of the tongue should be avoided although it is extremely difficult.

Posted Saturday, February 18, 2012 9:13 PM By k
MAC, I am not making an excuse for her but I am thinking with her and others to say…”The revealed truth is …. You seem to have created or adopted a personal myth to replace it.” Wonder what she would say.

Posted Sunday, February 19, 2012 9:32 PM By JLS
k, Pelosi is an evil woman. Rather than think with her, try thinking with Jesus.

Posted Monday, February 20, 2012 12:19 AM By k
JLS, OK.

Posted Monday, February 20, 2012 3:05 AM By ANNE
The BISHOPS of each DIOCESE need to enforce Canon 915. Otherwise it appears that they do not believe in the real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist. The Moral Sins of SCANDAL and SACRILEGE are real and lead Souls to Hell.

Posted Monday, February 20, 2012 6:53 AM By Larry
“We do know that some who leave the Church because they are scandalized, do leave with good intentions and consciences and are not trash, but some do leave the Church with bad consciences.” To ALL those who leave the Church: EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS!

Posted Monday, February 20, 2012 7:27 AM By Catherine
Deliberately lying at strategic times is a sin.

Posted Monday, February 20, 2012 11:21 AM By Catherine
ANNE, Your 3:05 AM post given within another hour of Divine Mercy is a very beautiful plea to our bishops. God will not hold us accountable, even amidst a steady drumbeat of heartfelt pleas, if we are not successful in convincing our bishops to uphold their most sacred duties. God will hold *us* accountable if we fail to be faithful by reminding them always to uphold their most sacred duty of defending the True Presence of Jesus Christ.

Posted Monday, February 20, 2012 11:25 PM By Abeca Christian
JLS you are right. If we try to have false compassion for Pelosi, we may find ourselves right next to her in line at judgement day and it will not be pretty!