The following comes from an early Fall blog posting by Bishop Robert Vasa of the Santa Rosa diocese.
If evidence is needed how wrong some media commentators can get a story, look no further than the coverage of Pope Francis’ recent action of witnessing the marriages of 20 couples, some of whom had lived together or had children together prior to marriage.
For instance, one Australian paper said it was the Pope making good “on his insistence that the Catholic Church welcome all faithful — not just those who obey church teaching perfectly.” Other outlets such as the New York Times had the same sort of observation.
The positive energy surrounding what Pope Francis did is edifying. One must ask, however, what he actually did that was so far from what the Church always does. Clearly, no one obeys Church teaching “perfectly” and so the implication that other Church officials only welcome the “perfect” is simply false. We are all sinners. The Church makes the sacraments, especially confession, available to us precisely because we are sinners. Sacraments are outward signs of the inner graces they give to help become less like sinners and more like Christ.
So what Francis has done is nothing new, much less extraordinary. And that is the real story here: The Church gave 40 men and women an opportunity to take a graced step in drawing closer to God and for some of them a turning away from a previous choice which they most likely recognized as inconsistent with God’s will for them.
Thus the perception that the Holy Father somehow “set aside” Church practice in his generous gesture of presiding at these 20 marriages is therefore terribly misleading and actually defamatory of this good Pope.
I wonder what elements of Church practice he set aside. I trust those couples, like all of the couples of every diocese of the United States:
- were required to produce baptismal certificates (standard practice);
- were required to go through the marriage preparation required by the Diocese of Rome (standard practice);
- were required to prove freedom to marry (standard practice);
- were required, if necessary to go through the annulment process (standard practice);
- were invited and given the opportunity (I hope) to make a good confession prior to this sacramental moment (standard practice);
- were required to present a civil marriage license (standard practice);
- were required to complete the prenuptial questionnaire (standard practice);
- were required to recite their vows in accord with an accepted form (standard practice).
And so it seems to me that the Holy Father, most likely, observed all of the standard formalities the Church has observed for centuries.
It is not typical for an officiating priest at a wedding to publicly announce that the couple was living together before the nuptials or that one or both of them had previous marriages and annulments. Doing so in this case has publicly manifested the Church’s openness to ‘sinners’ and it is this ‘proof’ of the Church’s welcome to those seeking ongoing conversion which is cause for joy. This, however, is not new though it may be news to some.
The charism of mercy manifested by Pope Francis is both attractive and attracting.
I would not, however, venture so far as to imply (as has the secular press) that this manifestation of mercy somehow excluded a call to conversion for every one of these couples. I would tend to believe every one of them recognized they wanted more from life than cohabitation or more than a simply civil form of marriage.
Let us rejoice for all of them that they responded to God’s graced call to conversion, His call to turn away from a previous way of life to a new life in Christ. I think this moment of conversion, which has not (unfortunately) been publicized or even mentioned, is the real story, a story of God’s merciful, redeeming and challenging grace.
Pope Francis clearly has a charism of love and mercy, but what he loves is the sinner, and there is nothing to imply that he in any way loves or condones the sin.
He loves the sinner and because of this love is not shy about calling them to reject sin and come more fully into the light of God’s love and grace.
To read the original posting, click here.
Archbishop Lamey of Santa Fe (according to Willa Cather), when traveling throughout his remote see, commonly married unwed couples living together, the only stipulation reported that he would not baptize their children before they wed. This is the Church showing mercy while respecting God’s law.
As one already on the “Lavender Liberal” Gaystapo Stalkers list for supporting Proposition-8, I have already been targeted and retaliated against – although it remains an ongoing project for many, including the Resident Harpy Homosex Trolls Here,
However – Missing from the List presented by the Church as requirements for Marriage as above – is Complimentary (XX & XY) Gender.
After all – California has Abolished Gender and even grants new birth certificates to the mentally deranged who want to pretend they are what they could never be – and Force Others to share the Lie, or else.
‘Will the Church ‘Marry’ two Male Drag Queens / Steroid Dykes, if their retroactive birth certificates show the contempt for basic Gender Science the Church Does, or would that be ‘;judgmental’?
Meantime: The same ‘Lavender Liberal’ Gaystapo Stalkers List for supporting Prop-8, is back in the ‘news’ – just in case there are any Citizens wishing to escape retaliation by the Abomination, as if such were possible.
SEE.
“Supreme Court Asked to Protect Natural Marriage Supporters from Death Threats, Violence & Vandalism
https://barbwire.com/2014/10/14/supreme-court-asked-protect-natural-marriage-supporters-death-threats-violence-vandalism/#XIsDPbqfpLCxUU42.99
We are all sinners, and can all be forgiven provided we repent and also resolve not to commit that sin again.
CCC #1451.
When someone repents and resolves, we should all rejoice with Jesus. “Go and sin no more”.
This is God’s mercy.
Bishop Vasa is a good teacher reminding all of the following:
◾ required to prove freedom to marry (standard practice);
◾ required, if necessary to go through the annulment process (standard practice);
◾ invited and given the opportunity (I hope) to make a good confession prior to this sacramental moment (standard practice);
◾ required to present a civil marriage license (standard practice);
◾ required to complete the prenuptial questionnaire (standard practice);
◾ required to recite their vows in accord with an accepted form (standard practice).
I agree, it is vey kind, for our Church to call sinners to penance and conversion. However– it was a terrible shock to me, for the Pope to have this televised, large, multiple-Wedding Mass, in St. Peter’s Basilica—- for ignorant, unfaithful, rebellious couples, who called themselves “Catholics!” And it was TALKED ABOUT, not kept PRIVATE!! How EMBARRASSING, for these couples, on their Wedding Day! Anyway– where are the young, sincere, devout, practicing Catholic couples, active in their parishes, happily obedient to Christ’s teachings, totally eligible to receive the Sacraments, and proud of their Faith?? They are the true future for our Church– and the Pope could proudly present them all, as inspiring Catholic Role Models, for successful Catholic Marriage and Family!! But– where are they? The Pope made a HORRIBLE mistake!
This Pope is causing scandal and confusion, shame!
He follows in the footsteps of his Master and Lord:
From 1 Peter 2: 4Unto whom coming, as to a living stone, rejected indeed by men, but chosen and made honourable by God: 5Be you also as living stones built up, a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
6Wherefore it is said in the scripture: Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious. And he that shall believe in him, shall not be confounded.
7To you therefore that believe, he is honour: but to them that believe not, the stone which the builders rejected, the same is made the head of the corner:
8And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of scandal, to them who stumble at the word, neither do believe, whereunto also they are set.
9But you are a chosen generation, a kingly priesthood, a holy nation, a purchased people: that you may declare his virtues, who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: 10Who in time past were not a people: but are now the people of God. Who had not obtained mercy; but now have obtained mercy.
No, Fellow Catholic, Jesus was clear when calling sinners out for their sins. The commandments are clear. Don’t overthink it, there will be judgement.
In a way, you are right. Don’t overthink it. Christ himself is the scandal that we still stumble over.
And you are a Catholic who thinks yourself better than the Pope! Humility seems to have gone out of our church. How sad!
It is sad when faithful are compelled to stand up for the Faith to the point of calling out the Pope. You may think your helping, mous, but the example of humility set by the Holy Father is precisely that which is being followed. For he seems to have no qualms about speaking his mind quite freely. Breaking rules, protocols, ignoring convention to follow his gut.
So what are you saying? That we shouldn’t follow the Holy Father’s ‘example’? I”m afraid your outraged hauteur is a bit overplayed in the era of letting-it-all-hang-out.
excellent !
Pope Francis is getting it right by opening the door, no matter how many cardinals want it slammed shut to anyone not 100% rigidly orthodox authoritarian. The demands of marriage and the staggering amount of social change in the past 2.000 years have completely recast marriage, and Francis is including that understanding in his preaching and approach..
Remember that in Christ’s day Taliban tactics were used to subjugate women inside and outside the home, and murder them by stoning if caught in adultery. Times have dramatically changed, providing more democracy in marital partnerships than ever before. Pope Francis is recognizing that God still loves us and wants to include us in his Church, even if the road to holiness is very long, confusing, rocky and terribly painful. Standing up to the perfectionist cardinals is a solid step in healing a Church sorely in need of it.
Just who do you think you are, Anonymous, to call God a Liar ? ! ! !
Go peddle your lies elsewhere.
Sin has not changed.
“Thou shall not commit Adultery” – GOD’s Commandment –
Ex 20:14; Deut 5:18
“Thou shall not covet thy Neighbor’s wife” – GOD’s Commandment – Ex 20:17
Deut 5:21
Teachings of JESUS about divorce and remarriage – Mk 10:6-12;
Mt 5:32.
Teaching of JESUS about adultery, mercy, and required repentance – “Go and Sin no more”,
Jn 8:11.
Please calm down Mac, the other Anonymous didn’t call God a liar. In case you haven’t noticed, Catholics aren’t – or at least aren’t supposed to be – fundamentalists. Besides which, you would have to say Eastern Orthodox call God liars too. Wanna go up against the Patriarch of Constantinople?
You seem to be confusing the dreaded slam of ‘fundamentalism’ with understanding the nature of that which is fundamental, mous. Much like belief in Christ Jesus is ‘fundamental’ to Christians. Belief in the Holy Trinity is also fundamental… say it with me, fun-da-men-tal. No need to be afraid, mous. There is no basis behind your salivating misinterpretation of Mac’s post, just focused and highly biased indoctrination. Hence the challenge to take on the Patriarch of Constantinople.
That said, Roman Catholics should be confident in defending the Catholic Faith, even when speaking to the ‘Patriarch of Constantinople.’ Much like Catholics should rest assured in defending themselves and the Faith against an angel of light who would preach a different gospel. Now THAT would be scary. But that could be why you wanna attack Mac and the actual Catholic Faith behind rote phrases like ‘fundamentalism.’ You may want to look at who precisely has been training you, mous.
.
Mallymous, you don’t even listen to the Patriarch of Rome. How about you start there.
Why would anyone look to you, Oh SSPX apostate, for any notion of what constitutes fundamental fidelity to what the church teaches?
Nobody has to listen to me, mous, but rather to the deposit of the Faith, whole and entire. So slur away and attempt to redefine fundamentals. You can’t. And that’s not my doing, much as you wish it were. For if you were arguing against a person – that is just me – no big deal. That goes to opinion. But the attempts to change that which is basic to the Faith – ie. fundamental to the Faith – equates to tangling with God Almighty. And God is not mocked, nor does He work against Himself.
God bless the mice!
As a divorced and remarried Catholic, I am ashamed you state you are part of my group, Anonymous.
Either you repent, or go to Hell. This is the teaching of Jesus, and has nothing to do with being conservative, and everything to do with TRUTH.
Catholics who are divorced and civilly remarried have 3 choices.
– – – 1. If they believe that their first marriage was NOT VALID, they should contact their Diocese office of Marriage Tribunal for further information and needed forms.
(Remembering that truthfulness is important because we can deceive other human beings, but not Jesus at our particular judgment.)
– – – 2. They can repent and live as brother and sister, and receive the Sacraments. (CCC #1650)
– – – 3. They can choose not to repent, and continue committing adultery with someone else’s valid spouse, and NOT receive the Sacraments, but must raise their children in the Catholic Faith. (CCC # 1651)
Receiving Holy Communion while in the state of Mortal Sin –
– – – 1. Sacrilege against the Body and Blood of our Lord.
– – – 2. Scandal for others which can be an additional mortal sin. CCC 2284, 2285, 2286, 2326.
– – – 3. Teaching of St. Paul 1 Cor 11:27-30 regarding condemnation for receiving unworthily.
Also, they can divorce.
This item was very disappointing. I started reading it with great interest because from the beginning of this story I have wondered if the Pope did, in fact, require all of the things Bishop Vasa assumes he did. The item doesn’t say. It says Bishop Vasa ASSUMES that he did. Of course, if he is right then the whole exercise wasn’t news. The same thing happens in many parishes all the time. People repent and regularize their marriages.
If Bp. Vasa is wrong, then the NYTimes and all the others are right and Pope Francis did something pretty extraordinary—and pretty bad. It’s a factual matter. Did he or didn’t he? As I say, I hoped from the headline to find out and am disappointed..
Finally, the Vatican could clarify it with a one-paragraph press release, but one has already learned not to expect clarity from this papacy.
Good points. Pope Francis continually creates clouds of ambiguity in nearly everything he does and says. “Who am I to judge?” is the essence of ambiguity. His position on fundamental issues regarding marriage and the Eucharist is ambiguous and his words subject to a number of interpretations. Same is true regarding abortion and homosexuality. One gay magazine even had him as their man of the year! When is he going to start speaking with clarity on Church doctrine? That is certainly an indispensable requirement in the Vicar of Christ on Earth, and the Church badly needs it. If anyone should be clear and unambiguous it is he. That is especially true in view of the fact that the secular world is trying hard to sow confusion and doubt in people’s minds about fundamental truths of the Faith. Perhaps his Jesuit training led him to adopt that style of communication for apologetic reasons. In any case it is getting old fast, not to mention dangerous.
Is “go and sin no more” now optional!
No, of course not. But “go and sin no more” comes at the end of the healing personal encounter with Christ, not the beginning. There is a very very important difference.
Bishop Vasa, notwithstanding public “conservative” praise, is a company man. See many, if any, TLMs in Santa Rosa. The “Marriage of Twenty” was a scandal, and a precursor to what all are seeing in Rome — a remaking of the Catholic Church. The final insult from a man — the Pope — raised in a selfish generation, remaking everything to accommodate their own sins. Francis says to “smell the sheep”, but what he is really saying is “enjoy your own smell” and deny yourself nothing.
Bishop Vasa, in his attempt at apologetics, is more or less like his buddy, Cardinal Chuckles-Bravo Dolan, telling everyone that his leading the St. Patrick’s Day Parade, which now feature homosexuals, is not a scandal. Nope, those homosexuals are only saying that they are proud of saying that they are “gay”!
And what does that mean, Eminence? These men have sex with each other, cannot be married to each other in the eyes of the Church, and commit sodomy. Yes, Bishop Vasa, you fit in really well with today’s Church. Why, to show your loyalty to the Pope, one wonders how long it will be until you are reading the Relatio (the original one) from the pulpit. And how long until, along with group marriages, you fit in “welcome the gifts of the homosexuals day” and “Santa Rosa Be Proud Sodomites Day”.
People, stop giving money to these men. Stop listening to their endless attempts to muddle what is clear, and what is their own cupidity and dissembling. Why should we employ you any longer as our Shepherd, when few of you are any longer fit for the task?
Clearly you do not know Bishop Vasa. He teaches and lives by the CCC and by the tradition and doctrines of the Church. You really should not make uninformed remarks about a man you have never had a conversation with. I don’t know what you mean by “a company man”. If you mean a Bishop who is obedient to the Pope (Francis is our Pope rather you like it our not) and Christ’s Church and strictly adheres to the deposit of the Faith, then you are right, he is that. And thank God he is. You also should be obedient to the Holy Father in matters of morals and faith or you are no longer a Catholic, so make your own call, but you don’t have the ability to do so for others. The Bishop is correct; the Pope did nothing to change any normal practice of marriage in the Church. What he did do was publicly talk about the conversion that he prayed took place with these couples. You are not their judge and you do not know what was in their hearts that day; just as you don’t know what is in the heart of Bishop Vasa. You are a troubled angry person.
If you welcomed the gifts of the homosexuals, you would first of all realize how many of them you have been enjoying all along, unbeknownst to you.
You could put it in terms of the gifts of adulterers, YFC, the gifts of pornographers, the gifts of thieves, the gifts of prostitutes, the gift of gossipers, the gift of liars, the gifts of name-the-sin. The gifts come from God, via human beings made in the image and likeness of God. You are not your sexual inclination. Just like you are not your alcohol preference.
This isn’t X-Men with mutants who are a breed apart. Those with same sex attraction are human beings, but human beings with a disordered sexual inclination. The sexual inclination isn’t the summation of who and what they are as people.
By your way of thinking, we should start a Blonde Pride group that establishes the profound gift of blonds across the nation – subjected to decades of cruel diatribes, pointed out as sexy, pouty, having no brain. Having to wear glasses *they* don’t really need if only to be taken seriously – like a person and not just…a blond. Oh, how the brunettes hate them. And how the blondes hate the brunettes, especially those that were born blond as they should understand.
“Alice” and “YFC”: Thanks for the knee-slappers. No, Alice, we are not enslaved to whatever a Pope says or permits. And, yes, there have been many, many things that prior popes did that were wrong, immoral, and the like. Good Catholics should pray for the Pope, and we do, but are not forbiddent to criticize him.
Francis, particularly at the Synod, has shown himself to be a crafty politican, who has a particularly Liberal vision of the Church. He will try to put into effect what he believes to be the truth. Faithful Catholics are free to oppose him (and can do so much more efficaciously thanks to the internet and social media). We do not need to live through another diaster like the years following Vatican II as the “liturgists” and career-minded clergy try to outdo each other in “implementing” the “spirit” of the Council, to the degradation of the Faithful. Given what went on at the Synod, and the fact that we now have many, many cardinals and bishops that are all too willing to throw Catholic concepts of marriage and other things under the bus, yes, righteous anger is appropriate.
YFC, “gifts of the homosexuals” is a moral oxymoron. In the interim before Catholic doctrine is changed, feel free to enjoy them privately.
I am grateful for the long pontificate of Saint John Paul. He brought clarity. JP2 was against the Culture of Death of modernity. This meant we were to resist abortion, the anticonceptive pill and euthanasia. That clarity is lost in the present merciful, popular, up to date, cool, Pontifex. The Gay couples issue as stated by the Synod will affect all other Culture of a Death issues. We had a good ride with JP2 and B16. This is a time to stay under the radar screen and try to survive the wave of change. The Anglicans went through this and their Aggiornamento was fruitless.
Correct, John Feeney.
The document posted on the Vatican web site: “Relatio post disceptationem” of Oct 13 – – – paragraphs # 46 – 49 and # 50 – 52 are in direct violation of Holy Scripture and about 15% of Church teaching in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition.
https://press.vatican.va/content/salastampa/en/bollettino/pubblico/2014/10/13/0751/03037.html
“GO and SIN NO MORE”,
“REPENT” with the purpose to not sin again to receive God’s Mercy,
and,
NEED for CONFESSION are out the window.
Pander or Perish = the ‘gospel’ of the Gaystapo – Coming to a ‘Catholic’ Church near you, and that right soon.
“City Threatens to Arrest Ministers Who Refuse to Perform Same-Sex Weddings
By Todd Starnes
Two Christian ministers who own an Idaho wedding chapel were told they had to either perform same-sex weddings or face jail time and up to $1,000 in daily fines, according to a lawsuit filed Friday in federal court.
Alliance Defending Freedom is representing Donald and Evelyn Knapp, two ordained ministers who own the Hitching Post Wedding Chapel in Coeur d’Alene.
“Right now they are at risk of being prosecuted,” attorney Jeremy Tedesco told me. “The threat of enforcement is more than just credible.”
The wedding chapel is registered as a “religious corporation” limited to performing “one-man-one-woman marriages as defined by the Holy Bible.”
However, the chapel is also a for-profit business and city officials said that means the owners must comply with the local nondiscrimination ordinance….
https://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/top-stories/city-threatens-to-arrest-ministers-who-refuse-to-perform-same-sex-weddings.html#.VELbsGe2f-8.facebook
Gays are not behind this at all. It will not be lost on the court that the call that was supposedly made asking them to perform a same sex wedding was made on the same day they filed their 60 something page complaint. You can bet that call came from one of their attorneys purely for the sake of saying so in the brief.
Having said that, this city ordinance should not apply to this couple. No minister should be required to perform a marriage ceremony that is against their religion, and this is a concept that is widely found in law. ACLU, and all the gay legal groups, may very well work right along side these ministers to defend their right to not marry people they don’t want to marry. This isn’t even a gray area.
Natural Marriage in Idaho: Give It Arrest! (Family Research Council
If homosexuals get their way, Pastor Donald Knapp won’t be behind the pulpit — he’ll be behind bars.
That’s the stunning development in Idaho, where the day liberals promised would never come is already here. Two ministers — a husband and wife team — have been told by their city government that refusing to “marry” a same-sex couple will send them straight to jail.
After 25 years of owning The Hitching Post wedding chapel, Donald and Evelyn are being faced with a situation neither of them thought possible: being imprisoned for their faith.
Like the flood of state amendments steamrolled by activist judges, Idaho’s fell earlier this month. And with it, religious liberty. Fearing the worst, the Knapps reached out to Alliance Defending Freedom, concerned that their chapel would be targeted. Less than a week later, the battle was at their front door.
For Donald and Evelyn, there was never any question what the duo would do. Unapologetically Christian, the husband-and-wife team is overtly religious, marrying couples with faith-driven vows, and even offering marriage sermons on CD to newlyweds. That doesn’t matter to city officials, who had this marriage message for The Hitching Post: Conform or be punished. And not just any punishment, but 180 days in jail and up to $1,000 in fines for every day the ministers refuse to perform the ceremony.
“Right now,” said attorney Jeremy Tedesco, “they are at risk of being prosecuted. The threat of enforcement is more than just credible.”
Unlike bakery owner Jack Phillips, who Colorado bullied with similar charges, the Knapps are both ministers. And while their chapel is considered a “religious corporation,” even it isn’t safe from the same-sex “wedding” march that threatens to put the First Amendment asunder.
All hype. No need to lie, Mickey D. The Knapp’s never contacted the ADF, nor do they currently face jail time or fines; there has not been any complaint filed against the wedding chapel, known as “The Hitching Post.”
Makes one really understand why the Family Research Council has been designated a hate group.
https://www.twocare.org/idaho-pastors-victimhood-story-almost-entirely-fabricated-by-religious-right/
In a day and age when young people, and some older ones, are not even bothering to get married, or in the right way, I think this sets a good example to those who need to and can get married in the Church.. My only objection is that these marriages having been done so openly, might set these couples up for ridicule. I would not want to have my past sins exposed to the world, but I assume Pope Francis talked about the possibility before he performed these marriages.