The following comes from a March 12 story on Catholic News Agency.
Amid a PR campaign and protests against Archbishop Salvatore Cordileone’s attempt to clarify Catholic teaching in the San Francisco schools, those who support the archbishop say their voices are not being heard.
“People are afraid to speak up because most of their colleagues oppose the additions to the handbook and because of just how disturbingly negative yet powerful the voices of opposition are,” a Catholic teacher who has worked at an archdiocesan high school for several years told CNA. “The media campaign against the archbishop has also caused fear among his supporters.”
His words were echoed by a former teacher of theology now living in Marin County, who asked not to be identified by name. She said that some of the archbishop’s supporters are concerned they will face “defamation of character and ostracism.”
“I believe the archbishop’s new additions to the Catholic high school handbooks are coming from a place of love and responsibility and not from hate, contempt or intolerance,” she said. “I am not surprised that he continues to be personally and politically attacked. It has never been easy to be Catholic and the teachings are challenging to many, but once understood and prayerfully engaged, their truth, beauty and goodness are unparalleled.”
The San Francisco archdiocese on Feb. 3 announced that explanations of Catholic teaching, as found in the Catechism of the Catholic Church and other church documents, would be added to the faculty and staff handbooks for its four high schools. The archdiocese said the changes to the handbook did not contain anything new but were intended to “clarify existing expectations that Catholic teachers in their professional and public lives uphold Catholic teaching.”
Much of the media coverage surrounding the changes focused on the handbook’s expectations that teachers not publicly contradict Catholic teaching on sexual morality and abortion.
The former theology teacher told CNA that the handbook discusses tenets of the Catholic faith that are “often misconstrued, confused and opposed in today’s culture.”
“Without clearly stating them, how can you expect the staff members to effectively understand and carry out the integrity of the mission?” she asked.
Some local politicians have threatened legal action against the archdiocese, while the San Francisco Board of Supervisors passed a resolution critical of the handbook changes. Over 350 employees, about 80 percent of the staff and faculty at the archdiocese’s four Catholic high schools, signed a petition against the handbook additions. Students, teachers and parents have also engaged in several protests.
Jim Jordan, an organizer of the petition and a teacher at Sacred Heart Cathedral Prep, told CBS SF that the handbook language has a “judgmental context” that undermines Catholic education’s mission and “the inclusive, diverse and welcoming community we prize at our schools.”
CNA’s source in the archdiocesan schools had a different view of the controversy.
“How ironic is it that those who support strengthening Catholic identity are made to be the problem?” he asked. He lamented that the petition referred to Catholic teaching as “harmful” and “hurtful” and was publicized via school e-mail.
The teacher, who did not want to be identified by name, said he was saddened to see “such misguided anger directed at the archbishop” and frustrated that so many teachers lacked “a shared vision of ministry….”
The archbishop should remove the name Catholic from these schools. They obviously reject Catholic Moral Doctrine. Just be done with it and move forward.
But they’re diocesan schools. The schools are controlled by the diocese, and owned by the diocese probably by means of nonprofit corporate membership. (Don’t forget, this whole controversy arises from the diocese’s efforts to maintain standards for its own employees.) Stripping the schools of a Catholic identifier would leave the diocese owning schools which would then be officially non-Catholic. The diocese’s own charter and enabling powers expectably would not allow it to run non-Catholic institutions. The Archbishop’s only choice at this time is to try to correct the schools. If that fails, a possible course might be to close the schools, bulldoze them and sell off the real estate for residential development. Selling the schools intact to a non-Catholic operator might be difficult under charitable trust restrictions which require charity-owned assets to remain dedicated to original charitable purposes. A knee jerk “just be done with it,” as you put it, might work with institutions which are not owned and controlled by the diocese, but that is not the case here.
I wonder how many of the 80% who signed the petition were under duress while signing.
Let’s see ” the martyrs’ in support of A/B are anonymous. And the 80% of teachers who sign their true names in the protest petition were under duress? Who are you kidding? [including you= anonymous]
The duress comes from the wild dog pack of dissenters as a weapon forcing the weak to sign who might otherwise not. All the teachers are known, so a teacher’s name is either on the petition or it is not. The identities of the non-signers are just as public as those of the signers. The non-signers risk retribution from the pack of wild dogs and suffer as martyrs.
If any teacher suffers retribution, bring it to the attention of the editors of CCD.
Al Price, none of the 20% are going to lose their job. At most, they’ll get their locker stacked, if they have public lockers.
And I have been to one of the gatherings at the Cathedral, and I did see one quite domesticated puppy, but no pack of wild dogs. It’s time that everybody – whether you side with the AB or the teachers and students and parents – everybody needs to put the “martyr” complex to bed already. It insults the memory of those who actually lost their lives for the faith.
It is incredibly superficial to think that those loyal to the Archbishop (but more specifically, the Magisterium) do not suffer persecution. They soldier on day after day in an environment which is hostile to Christ, and they have suffered it long before now. It’s called dry martyrdom. As the persecution intensifies some may even quit their jobs (constructively discharged), rather than continue to endure the hostility of their faithless co-workers. All persons are called upon to die unto Christ. Some refuse to do so. No ‘pack of wild dogs’ ganging up to sign a petition and hiring PR agents? Satan masquerades as an angel of light.
I knew someone who taught the Catholic Faith who was in an environment like that. When asked why he stayed he said,”The students are entitled to hear the Catholic Faith and I am the only one who will teach it to them.”
Soldier on. Don’t give in or give up. Trials don’t last as long as you fear they might. Just pray and remain faithful. I have seen whole parishes turn around. The changes come overnight but sometimes there is a long period of waiting for that day. Keep you eyes on God and offer everything up for the conversion of sinners.
Lucia – better to question how many of the Radical Gender Feminist / Homosex Activists pushing this Agenda under the guise of ‘teachers’ – Force It on Their Students as a condition of participation or graduation?
Remember the Alinsky Rules 4 Radicals call for Isolation & Targeting of those not following the herd, ruthlessly. The example of what later happened to the lone dissenter in a 1936 Gaystapo Salute, is similar to the “Lavender Liberal” Stalkers list used to target and retaliate against supporters of Proposition 8 Marriage.
A lone man refusing to do the Nazi salute, 1936
The photo was taken at the launch of a German army vessel in 1936, during a ceremony that was attended by Adolf Hitler himself. Within the picture a lone man stood with arms crossed as hundreds of men and women around him held up their arms in salute and allegiance to the Nazi Party and its leader, Adolph Hitler. Everyone in attendance is showing their undying support for Der Fuhrer by throwing out their very best “Sieg Heil.”
August Landmesser, grimacing with arms crossed, stood strong and defiant as he showed his disapproval by not displaying support for the Nazi Party. What made this photo and Landmesser’s defiance unique is that it represented the protest of one man, in its most sincere and pure form…
I recall, many long years ago, when starting school, all of the children in our neighborhood, Catholic and Protestant– could depend on attending a school in which Christian morality was totally understood, believed in, and practiced! To NOT believe in or practice Christian morality– would never have been dreamed of!! Catholic parents prepared their children for Catholic schools, and Protestant parents prepared their children for the public schools. Of course, in those days— the Catholic Faith was very distinct, and much stricter, than the various Protestant denominations! Regardless– you would absolutely NEVER find either a Protestant public school teacher, or a Catholic nun– who believed in and practiced, anything horrible or immoral, against the teachings of Christ! Yes– there were cases of child abuse, to include corporal punishment, which did harm to some children. However— overall, both Catholic and Protestant parents could depend on their schools to be morally decent places, which taught their children right from wrong, a proper moral conscience, and a sense of responsibility!
Thank you for writing that.
It is nice to read.
I will add something, to my above post. The immoral Catholic school teachers are a danger to society, whether they teach in a Catholic school, or in a public school! A big part of the profession of a teacher, is to be an excellent role model for the children, to teach them right from wrong, to help instill a sense of responsibility, and to help children to develop a good moral conscience! The ideal teacher, of course– is Christ-like! Our society, as well as our Church, is greatly in need of good educators, because they are forming the future adult citizens of our country, and the future Catholic parishioners, of our Church! Unfortunately– both secular political leaders of our Nation, and the top leaders of our Church— do not realize this important fact, so the future of civilization itself— is close to the Fall of Rome! Why are today’s leaders so afraid to HONESTLY CONFRONT THE DEVIL– and DO BATTLE WITH HIM?? Either you follow Christ– or you don’t!! And in the Church— you’re either Catholic– or that’s the end of it!! Period! Problem ended!
God bless Archbishop Cordileone.
Amen to that Jenny
A tendentious simulacrum of the Catholic faith has taken deep root in San Francisco and in many parts of the country. The Archbishop could use Pope Francis’ backing, but I fear the best he can hope for is a demotion to Malta with Cardinal Burke. Sure hope I am wrong.
It is likely that the Catholic Church — the institution that is — will also hang the Archbishop and his supporters, out to dry. With all the publicity and commentary, where are his peeps, his admirers, his supporters? Chirp . . . Chirp . . . Chirp.
One hopes that the Archbishop will hold fast. Many news sources, however, cite to various statements (perhaps made up) that suggest that the Archbishop “is rethinking his position” on the morality clauses. Pray that Abp. Cordileone stays strong and true, but the lack of any further statement from him is troubling. In legal and political areas, one needs to respond immediately to be effective. Compare the effectiveness of the responsiveness of President Clinton, and President Bush (43), to various crises, for example. Or in the silence of Candidate Romney versus the immediate push-backs of Candidate Obama.
You snooze, you lose. The Archbishop needs to get active; step out; explain and argue and insist. No silence, No pussy-footin’ around.
His supporters are all around, not to worry!
And we have been praying but also mailing letters/calling the Papal Nuncio to the United States!!!
Sister Lucia called the present situation a diabolical disorientation. In other words, good is evil, and evil is good. The Archbishop is just being Catholic, and he is being attacked not only for his beliefs, but also for standing up for traditional moral values. Our society is sick, demented, and sinful. Christ said when He returned, there would only be a remnant left who kept the faith. Our Lord was right.
Sr. Lucia also gave us the remedy for the diabolical disorientation but the pope and the world ignore Our Blessed Mother’s remedy.
Been there, felt that pressure -not from administration or a union, but from obnoxious Modernist religion teachers who would growl: “It’s not you department -butt out!” and threaten to treat any questioning of their polices as “harassment” . But you have to speak up. If only those of us who support the Archbishop and the Church would do so en masse.
Been through all of this before. Being “too conservative” by speaking out against the changes being made by an administration led by someone who said we worship Mary too much, our classroom were too Catholic, stopped mid-day prayers and going to Mass so much (and more) led to having to look for other employment.
The diocesan education department backed the principal up (not surprisingly, especially since they violated their own policies in hiring this person). It has not been a good time to be looking for a job – ran through my paltry savings to feed and house my family.
And the principal? Closed the school I was teaching at a short time later (telling the parents on the last day of school), asked to leave another school after a couple of years and now at yet another.
You’re right about speaking up – I would do it again, too.
Oh poor Jim Jordan. He got his feelings hurt by the seemingly judgemental, handbook language. Grow up!
Why pay money to a so called “Catholic” school that mirrors public secular education? Tell me why it is bad to promote good moral teachings. Government control is way out of line here and continues to take control of our freedom to be who God wants us to be. We need to have the freedom to choose right from wrong— PERIOD!
The point I think is that the Archbishop wants to take that very same freedom away from teachers. By muzzling teachers while they are away from school, and may even be between semesters, the Archbishop is saying to his teachers, some of whom are not even Christian let alone Catholic: “You cannot have the freedom to choose right from wrong, you have to choose what I think is right from wrong.” And for that matter, the AB only presents a very small portion and very one sided portion of catholic moral teaching. What about all the rest of that teaching? Service to society, aid to the poor, strictures against lying, etc etc.
YFC, if these teachers in Catholic schools are not going to adhere to the teachings of the Catholic Church and live accordingly, they should leave. Their even being there makes about as much sense as a Muslim teaching in a synagogue!
John, what you say is not unreasonable except that being catholic is not a requirement of their employment. There are many non-catholics, in fact. So the schools (and I suppose) the AB should ask whether they are providing an equitable work environment to ask non-catholics to pretend to be catholics, and if they can’t to lie about it in public. How can we possibly expect our young people to learn the values of integrity and honesty when we are asking just the opposite of our teachers? And why aren’t integrity and honesty explicitly mentioned as part of the teacher’s manual additions…you guessed it. They can’t because they are asking the teachers to lie.
Your Fellow “Catholic,” I think you should drop the name of “Catholic” from your moniker, and stop posting on a Catholic website! Christ asks us all to lead a morally good life, and that includes chastity, purity of heart! The virtue of Chastity, and purity of heart, is an absolute basic Christian virtue! All Christians believe this! The body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, the place where Christ dwells! You must NOT defile yourself or others, with sin! And you must not view others in any degrading or dirty manner– Christ dwells in them, and you must always see Christ in others! We are God’s creation, and bear His Divine Image! We belong to Him, NOT to the filthy, secular world! That is why He suffered and died, for our Salvation! NO— sincere Catholics have no babyish “freedoms,” we have a big, mature, adult responsibility, to follow Jesus! You cannot go to Heaven, if you childishly refuse to listen and to follow Him! Only the PURE OF HEART shall see God, as Christ taught, in the Beatitudes!
Thanks for the patronizing lecture, LM.
Linda Maria bravo. I agree with your post. A very charitable post to YFC. I pray that someday YFC will appreciate and understand why and see how valuable he is and we only wish to help him get to heaven.
When one applies for and accepts employment by any Church, or any organization, or any company – one must subscribe to their MISSION in full.
To do otherwise – makes one a hypocrite and a liar.
There is no place for hypocrites and liars within the Catholic Faith.
JESUS detested hypocrites.
For those who do not know, Catholics must adhere in entirety to Sacred Scripture and the CCC.
“….the CATECHISM has raised throughout the world, even among non-Christians,
and confirms its purpose of being presented as a full, complete exposition of Catholic doctrine,
enabling everyone to know what the Church professes, celebrates, lives, and prays in her daily life.” – Pope John Paul II (CCC pg xiv)
There are ZERO excuses.
The Church has put it all in writing. :)
A large percentage of the people who send their children to these schools are Catholic in name only (CINO) or not Catholic at all. The schools have become secular semi-elite prep schools. That’s why parents pay money for the education. The schools get their kids into college because by and large the secular education provided at these schools is better than the public schools. Much of this has to do with better discipline standards, and much of it has to do with the parents themselves. These people have the money to pay the tuition, because they themselves have the work ethic to earn it, and instill similar behavioral standards in their own children who as a result see a connection between success in school and success in life.
God bless Arcbishop Cordileone. We are here. We are here. Doing what we can. We might not shout it from the rooftops, but we are here. Some having learned the hard way.
Right ON Anne T!!!!!!
“She said that some of the archbishop’s supporters are concerned they will face “defamation of character and ostracism.”
Golly, gee. You mean being a Catholic and speaking the truth in love may harm your reputation? Fear not the condemnation of man, fear your God and dust off your Confirmation vows. Stand up, soldiers of Christ. Stand up. Speak out. Now is the acceptable time.
Let us prayer for our weak-kneed brothers and sisters in the Catholic faith who guard their reputations at the expense of pleasing their God:
O Great Merciful God, Infinite Goodness, today all mankind calls out from the abyss of its misery to Your mercy – to Your compassion, O God; and it is with its mighty voice of misery that it cries out. Gracious God, do not reject the prayer of this earth’s exiles! O Lord, Goodness beyond our understanding, Who are acquainted with our misery through and through, and know that by our own power we cannot ascend to You, we implore You: anticipate us with Your grace and keep on increasing Your mercy in us, that we may faithfully do Your holy will all through our life and at death’s hour. Let the omnipotence of Your mercy shield us from the darts of our salvation’s enemies, that we may with confidence, as Your children, await Your final coming – that day known to You alone. And we expect to obtain everything promised us by Jesus in spite of all our wretchedness. For Jesus is our Hope: Through His merciful Heart, as through an open gate, we pass through to heaven. (St. Faustina’s Diary – 1570)
Martyrs? Someone who holds an unpopular opinion ends up being … unpopular??? That makes a martyr??? By this standard, when I came out ..kind of, sort of .. in high school, that would have made me a martyr! HA! Seriously, the headline disrespects the true, often canonized, martyrs of our Faith!
Big improvement in the martyr experience. It used to involve being put to death in a gruesome manner, but now simply means encountering vocal opposition, or feeling like you hold a minority opinion.
OH C&H how little you know… the day is coming soon when defending Church teaching will get you killed.
C&H, a Christian martyr is one who is persecuted for doing what is right not for advocating sin or engaging in sinful behavior. Example: St. Dymphna was a Celtic Christian princess who was murdered by her own father for not marrying him when her mother died. Incest is against Christian morality, so is sexual relations between two men or two women. Another example of Christian martyrdom is when St. Charles Lwanga and his companions were murdered by a tribal king because they refused his sexual advances. Another example are those who have homosexual attractions but do not act on them, but are persecuted because they refuse to be unchaste. NOW DO YOU GET IT??????
Anne T., it seems that you grade martyrdom on the curve. Mere criticism of a believer is hardly martyrdom. Mere criticism doesn’t even qualify as persecution!
Martyrdom involves the death of a believer. Real physical death. To pretend that the Archbishop and his allies are being martyred because students hold a candle light prayer service in front of the cathedral is such a mockery of the concept that it HUGELY disrespects those who gave their ultimate sacrifice for the faith.
The AB better not personally adopt the idea that he is a martyr, unless he wants his next assignment to be chaplain to ISIS.
OH how little YFC knows… there is something called White Martyrdom and this situation qualifies….and to compare the Archbishop to ISIS proves your malicious intent
Amen, Canisius, amen. There is diffinitely such a thing as white martyrdom. There is red martyrdom and white martyrdom. St. Maximillian Kolbe went through both I believe. At. least Our Lady let him choose which crown he wanted, and I think he chose both.
Actually St. Maximillian Kolbe had to have chosen both crowns as he was killed, and white martyrdom always comes before red.
Yes, Canisius, but turn the comparison around – the real response is that it is the dissenters who behave like ISIS. It is the dissenters who attack the faithful just like ISIS is currently killing Christians, and marking their doors with the letter “N” to denote Nazarenes. It is the dissenters who hire PR agents in attempts to publicly shame and force down the Archbishop. Duress, force and eventually physical violence and death, these are the modus operandi of the haters of Christ. As Jesus told us, remember if the world hates you, it hated Me first. Yes, it is the dissenters who are the ones following in the footsteps of ISIS and Mohammed, hating Christ and hating the Chosen People from whence He came. The deniers of Christ on this board state there is no martyrdom here, because no one has died in this controversy – yet people are dying in this very same controversy all over the world – the war against Christ – ISIS is waging war against fidelity to the Faith just like so many of the posters here! How soon will it be before the faithful in the U.S. will be faced with an ultimatum on their lives? The petition signers are turncoats on the Faith and have already run scared in the other direction!
AnneT is correct in her explanation of martyrdom, YFC. And those martyrs who have shed their blood for the Faith would understand as they would know the Faith prior to martyrdom and/or in the fullness of the Beatific Vision, would completely understand the white martyrdom of their brothers and sisters and their Queen. Something that often precipitates the shedding of blood.
But as to white martyrdom even the great St. Alphonsus de Liguori states:
“…Mary was the Queen of Martyrs, for her martyrdom was longer and greater than that of all the Martyrs.”
The why is because of innocent suffering, YFC, not the shedding of Her blood.
The seven swords that pierced Mary’s heart were her white martyrdom, though no one killed her body.
Then by your definitions, you all martyr gay people every day on this site.
One must be suffering to support what is just and good, YFC, not sodomy.
YFC, most of us do NOT care what adult homosexuals do in the privacy of their own homes.
We will tell them once to save their Souls, and if they choose Hell that is their own free will.
I don’t see how you could call homosexuals Martyrs since none of us invade their Church of Sodomy or their god of sex. We want nothing to do with their beliefs.
If that is what they want, they are free to practice sexual perversion – as long as we do not have to be involved in any way.
Anne T excellent comments
As the conciliar Church in chaos sinks, It is a gift of God is anyone still thinks ” If the present crisis is tending to overthrow the nature of the Catholic Church, and if the tendency is internal to the Church, rather than the result of an external assault as it has been on other occasions, then we are headed for a formless darkness that will make analysis and forecast impossible and in the face of which there will be no alternative but to keep silence.” So wrote Romano Amerio. In the chaotic din the truth simply cannot be heard except for a few souls whom Almighty God has preordained to hear (Acts 13:48). These souls are chosen by God, not by man, and they come from different backgrounds. They are a remnant. They hear what Archbishop Cordileone has said, and they understand. The others, do not, because the Archbishop’s truthful words fall on deaf ears and hardened hearts. Ave Maria Purrissima!
The members of the faculties that support the Archbishop’s new call for support of Catholic teaching are in hiding. It is very hard to support Catholic teaching in The City. Those who live in other parts of the country likely don’t understand the pressure to be “inclusive” in all professional and other levels of interaction in The City. In a major metropolitan area that has only about 15% of its people who believe in God or attend Church on a regular basis, it is difficult to teach Catholic virtue. Most people don’t agree with it. Forty percent of people under 35 years don’t get married any more. 98% see nothing wrong with same-sex marriage. Divorce is rampant and fully acceptable. Teaching morality involves too much judgement, and its not ok to be judgmental. The Catholic Church is seen a church of exclusion rather than a church of inclusion. Large foundations hesitate to give money to “catholic” organizations for fear of retribution from the gay community. In other words, the Archbishop is trying to be Catholic in a town where that is considered a bad thing. He could use some prayers.
Where does the Catholic Church teach that one should TOLERATE Mortal Sin to be “inclusive” ? (Clue – it does not.)
People who disagree with Church teaching must work elsewhere.
Parents who disagree with Church teaching must send their children elsewhere.
And we all will be happy. :)
98%, not sure where that number comes from.
Also, I tried looking at Catholic Charities website to see which foundations support them. I couldn’t find that info (let me know if you find it). A few years ago, I know, one of their biggest foundation funders is also one of the largest funders of LGBT equality efforts in the country. So I think the accusation that the gay community is somehow causing “fear” among foundations, stearing them away from catholic orgs is probably a fallacy. At least it was when i had the information 2 or so years ago.
Not just in Frisco – the Gaystapo are on the Attack wherever and whenever they can:
Cincinnati archdiocese alters the wording of morality clause for Catholic school teachers
…said Michael Hichborn, president of the Lepanto Institute. “Of greater concern is that the archdiocese’s explanation…allows individuals who reject Catholic moral teaching to maintain teaching positions in Catholic schools.”
… Hichborn said the real concern is not whether Catholic teachers sin either publicly or privately, but whether they hold views that are antithetical to the teachings of the Church.
“There’s a great difference between allowing a Catholic sinner to teach children and permitting someone philosophically attached to grave moral evils to teach,” Hichborn said.
“Haven’t chancery offices learned this lesson from the pederasty scandal of the last 15 years?”
The “Lavender Liberal” Gaystapo Stalkers List created to stalk, hound and retaliate against those who supported the Church & Proposition 8 (which remains in the California Constitution, turkey baster creationist courts and legislatures notwithstanding) – has been used by these Fanatics for over a Decade.
Like the Homo-Nazi ‘SA’ Storm Troopers under party founder / boy raping ephebophile Ernst Rohm & his diseased prostitute boy toy / protege Hitler (at least until Rohm’s assassination in an inter-party Homosex Power purge) – they will use Any Tactic and Any Tool to beat the opposition in to submission.
Support for the Church and its Wise Moral Teachings is going to lead to Jail Time for Thought Crime – as soon as the Gaystapo can seize enough control to permanently silence anyone who dare dissent from their Pander or Perish rule.
Consider – the Non Story of a Frisco ‘in-human-rights’ Icon, Completely Censored from the Lamesteam ‘news’ in the East Bay and Sate outside of Frisco, although the Church gets trashed almost daily – and Brink’s RACISM is Never Touched by the Same Lame ‘free press’.
Caring for Children Does Have Links – for those wanting to compare coverage:
“Gay rights advocate Larry Brinkin sentenced on child pornography charges
The gay rights advocate and former member of the San Francisco Human Right Commission who pleaded guilty to possession of child pornography was sentenced Wednesday and will be required to register as a sex offender for life, according to the District Attorney’s Office.
Larry Brinkin, 67, agreed to a plea deal in January with prosecutors, who dropped a second charge of distributing child pornography.
Brinkin was sentenced Wednesday to a year’s detention, with six months served in county jail and six months home detention…
Brinkin’s probation also requires that he not work in any environment with children or cohabit a dwelling with children without disclosing his status as a sex offender… register as a sex offender for life, prosecutors said.
Brinkin is well-known in San Francisco as being a vocal advocate for gay rights.
He was a member of the Human Rights Commission for 22 years before retiring in 2010. In December of that year, the Board of Supervisors declared the first week of the month “Larry Brinkin Week” because of his work on gay rights issues.
Article source: https://www.sfexaminer.com/sanfrancisco/gay-rights-advocate-larry-brinkin-sentenced-on-child-pornography-charges/Content?oid=2721863
Michael, as a 4th generation San Franciscan…..could you do me a favor?
Please do not refer to the City of St. Francis as ‘frisco’.
Elizabeth – I too am a 4th generation native son of San Francisco. My Father grew up on Castro Street near the corner of Market – back when that was one of the ‘Irish Ghettos’, “South of the Slot” (Market St) – as Jack London Put It.
Regarding FRISCO – I understand that some take offense at what has Always in IMNPHO a fully functional and proper name for the Working City I know.
Of course this is more of a ‘Working Class’ Term, and not one that Realtors or Tourist Bureaus care much for. I will spare you my working class opinion of those who look down their noses at the Working Town that remains of Frisco.
BTW – I have decades of employment on the Docks, Shipyards and Merchant Ships (Licensed Deck Officer – California Maritime Academy – 79) of Frisco.
I was also was the Supervisor for Operations for the Top End Caterer in Frisco (though based in Emeryville) the year we won the “Best in the Bay Area” award at the height of the Dot.com bubble, and saw my fill of ‘Gucci Scarecrows’ on Snob Hill.
Simply Put – the City of Saint Francis (born in Saint Francis Hospital) has been disgraced by Sodom by the Sea, and I reject connection of a Saint with today’s Gaystapo Thought Police Central.
However, what is left of the working town of Frisco is not sullied by those who would not get their shoes dirty visiting it anyway.
Many trendy, immature, “politically correct” San Francisco “youngsters” (“kids” of all ages!)— are very frightened and upset, when older folks (who could care less about the latest immature, “follow-the-crowd,” Nazi-style, politically-correct fashions and beliefs) dare to call San Francisco, by any pet name they may choose. You see– mature people, could care less, about babyish, immature, and immoral fads and fashions, in the first place! So— who cares, if some “politically correct” kiddo, deems it to be “not cool,” to refer to this infamous city, as “Frisco??” WHO CARES?? Many people, for decades– have referred to it by worse pet names— usually, “Sodom and Gomorrah,” or, “Sin City By the Bay!”
It gives me hope to read about people from San Francisco who hold to their morals. That have noble convictions in the Lord. Its not all lost, there are still good souls fighting the good fight there, who do not back down and who support our holy priests and Archbishop. God bless you.
A small but important Victory:
VICTORY: Knights of Columbus drop out of “pro-gay” Boston St. Patrick’s Parade after massive outrage from traditional Catholics
Outrage in Massachusetts, across USA, and even Europe! https://www.massresistance.org/docs/gen2/15a/St-Patricks-Parade/knights-drop-out.html
Today we saw the triumph of resolute religious believers over the homosexual lobby.
…C.J. Doyle, executive director of the Catholic Action League sent us this statement:
I want to thank Brian Camenker of MassResistance without whom this victory wouldn’t have happened. Though not a member of the Catholic religion, he has shown more courage and clarity in defending the Natural Law teachings of the Catholic religion than the faculties of most of the Catholic universities in New England.
We are honored to have been able to help!
Yes, you can fight back!
This shows the power that people of faith have within themselves. We’ve said many times that the “LGBT movement” is an unsustainable house of cards held up by money and political power, but cannot last. As we hold fast to our principles, we’ll gain momentum, so there will be more victories like this.
A final note: The weather forecast for Boston on Sunday calls for rain changing to snow.
I am so glad to hear from the poster, Michael McDermott, that the Knights of Columbus dropped out of the Boston pro-gay St. Patrick’s Day parade! Wish they would do likewise, in New York! And I wish Cardinal Dolan would act like a good Catholic— and lead the OUTRAGE!! Catholics (especially Irish Catholics!) all need to take back our Saint, and his Feast Day! St. Patrick’s Day is a Feast Day, on the Roman calendar, of our Church! It is also a unique Feast Day, for Irish Catholics! It does NOT belong to the filthy, pagan, secular world! St. Patrick converted all Ireland, for Christ! And that is a very special event, in our Church’s history!
God, and St. Patrick be praised. It seems St. Patrick is busy driving out the snakes in the good old U.S. of A. also.
80% of the teachers signed the petition? That leads me to believe that only 80% of the teachers in these schools are Catholic. Oh yes, they may CALL themselves Catholic but but that would be in name only (CINO)!. Just as everyone who lines up to receive communion at mass every Sunday is without sin……and probably (just a guess) haven’t been to the Sacrament of Reconciliation for the past 10 years.
This is also the reason our Church can be defiled by anti-Catholics daily from every angle and in every way imaginable and you rarely, if ever, hear a peep from the rest of us. We should all be members and support the Catholic League. President Bill Donohue of the League is the only one with the backbone to confront these kind of people on a regular basis.
What’s the matter with the other 20% of the teachers? Stand up and create your own petition backing the Archbishop! Sure the “chicken livered” always like to remain anonymous. Perhaps when you arrive at the Pearly Gates, Jesus will also remain anonymous and not stand up for you in front of the Father!
I am grateful to Archbishop Cordileone for his pastoral leadership. He once spoke in an article for USA Today about his experience as Bishop of Oakland, the sorrow and pain of so many acts of street violence, with innocent mothers and young people caught in the middle. This was my own experience as a public school teacher in Oakland. The root cause of this violence is because of the breakdown in the meaning of marriage and a breakdown in guarding the sacredness of how life is created and the sacredness of sustaining the good of the child through the permanence of marriage, and the child’s sense of identity by growing up with their mother and father involved in their life. It is the role of the Church then to bear witness to the meaning of Divine Law, to guide civil law, to live as children of God.
We all must pray, fast, and do much penance in order for this terrible action against Archbishop Cordileone to cease. Why are all these horrible things happening? The Catholic Church is on the brink of chaos because the present crisis is tending to overthrow the nature of the Church. The Holy Father himself makes statements whose deliberate ambiguity opens the door wide to the overthrow of all Catholic dogma and morals. Today more and more people are unable to think. They want freedom from reality, truth and logic in order to defy God. They want to remake the world in accordance with their false and evil fantasies. Our Lady of Fatima instructed us to make reparation, as that is the only way the Church can be put back on solid ground.
Herman I agree. Today i prayed for these intentions for Father llo and His excellency the Archbishop and the spritual battle was felt. May God protect us all while we pray for these intentions that are noble and honorable to our Lord.
I got a chill reading this weekend’s Sunday Mass readings and then reflecting upon them in light of the Archdiocese of San Francisco’s travails. We are the 6th century BC Jews!
People should have the courage to speak out and use their actual identities. That applies to all commenters on this site as well.
“People should have the courage to speak out and use their actual identities. That applies to all commenters on this site as well.” Fred
Fredi – that is the Most Homo-Troll-Phobic statement I have read here, and you should be brought for ‘people’s justice’ before a secret committee of the Gaystapo Thought Police for daring to utter it, in writing no less.
Who Are You to Judge the Homosex Trolls who trash this board (and the Church / Magisterium of course) – when they are the only Judges Permitted in the Age of Abomination.
Besides – If they actually identified themselves and their fellow trollers, the trash they dump here could be returned to sender, and cleaning up their own mess would displease the Trolls Greatly.
So – As I say, Just Scroll Past the Troll.
I would just point out that the 80% of San Francisco Catholic School teachers who signed their name in opposition to the Archbishop’s new teacher handbook policies used their real name, and are jeopardizing their employment because of it.
The students who testified before the Board of Supervisors used their real name. Those who spoke at the Ash Wednesday event used their real names. Those who spoke at this week’s event used their real names.
And they showed up in public. And on TV. They risked a lot.
What more do you want?
And if they are “forced” out they’ll be lionized by the Bay Area Left. Some risk. Set that against the poor bakery owner who may lose her entire life’s work and savings because she defied unjust laws granting privileges to so-called “gay marriage”. Protesting when the protest is popular in your area is no sacrifice. Any dead dog can “go with the flow”. It takes live dogs to swim upstream.
Tom Byrne, it’s not a popularity contest. It’s a contest for justice.
I was on the streets as long as 30 years ago, when the idea of marriage for same sex couples was about as unpopular as spoiled meat. If you are from San Francisco, you may remember that the city’s domestic partnership law lost a majority, even in San Francisco about 25 years ago. In San Francisco! But we were there. Over and over again, even though it was unpopular.
Nobody wrote articles about how we were “martyred”.
YFC, no one should support sexual immorality of any kind for any reason.
You and your sodomy supporters should start your own Church of Sodomy, and you can all go to Hell together.
Why do you all not do this ? And leave the rest of us alone ?
If you all choose Hell, that is your free will choice.
PS: You are also a LIAR. You are not a “Faithful Catholic”.
YFC, what more do we want?
If they oppose the teaching (Mission) of the Catholic Faith as stated in Sacred Scripture and the CCC – we want them to leave.
Find a job elsewhere that supports their own beliefs – anti-Catholic (-anti-Sacred Scripture, and anti- “Catechism of the Catholic Church”).
“If you hate a person, you hate something in him that is part of yourself. What isn’t part of ourselves doesn’t disturb us.” – Herman Hesse
Might want to check your definition of Troll there. It does not mean disagreeing. However: posting long passages of extraneous, off-topic articles (four in a row on this page), conspiracy theories, hate speech, name calling and other abusive language … all qualify.
A Catholic Bible, and the CCC qualifies.
There is no hate of a person. There is sincere hatred of Mortal Sins.
Supporting immoral activities in public is grave scandal.
” handbook’s expectations that teachers not publicly contradict Catholic teaching on sexual morality and abortion.”
Anonymous Anti-Catholic Trolls and:
“Why are they called ‘homofascists’? Here’s why… By J. Matt Barber
Many Christians have been warning for years that the radical homosexual activist lobby is made up of Christian-hating fascists who are in rebellion against both God and nature, who are hell-bent on criminalizing Christianity and pushing to the fringes anyone who publicly acknowledges natural human sexuality and the age-old, immutable institution of legitimate marriage as created by God.
Sadly, many people, even many Christians, think that I and others are using hyperbole when we refer to this sexual anarchist “LGBT” movement as “homofascist” or the “Gaystapo.”
I hope you’ll think again. It’s time to wake up and smell the impending anti-Christian persecution. It’s fully at hand.
Laurie Higgins (wrote):
Christians, buckle up. Your whole world is about to change. The Rainbowshirts are emboldened and they’ve broken out the long knives.
– I’ve often said that these folks want those who speak Biblical truth about human sexuality and legitimate marriage either 1) dead, 2) imprisoned or, if they can have neither of these, 3) marginalized to the point where they can’t even support their families.
Freedom is hanging on by a thread, America, and it is those who worship the sin of Sodom that are determined to finish it off once and for all.’
Does this screed come with the usual sound-track?
With the new push for ecumenism, where it is practically mandated that every week Catholics attend ‘services’ on Sunday at a Protestant church, instead of Catholic Mass, that we are told to mix with the Hindu people, the Buddhists, the Moslems, and ‘native American spirituality, and yet, we are forbidden to attend a Mass celebrated by a priest from the SSPX. We are encouraged to tolerate homosexuals, and abortionists, and transsexuals, but are threatened with excommunication if we even set foot in a SSPX chapel. There is something quite wrong here. A DVD was recently released on the life of Archbishop Lefevbre, and it opened my eyes. He was persecuted for just living the traditional Catholic faith. Pope Paul VI treated him, and others like dirt, for just being faithful to his baptismal promises. Many people who write in to calcatholic do not believe as Catholics, and are heretics, are very quick to name call and condemn those with whom they disagree. Daily things are going from bad to worse because people do not care about their immortal souls, and have no place for God in their lives.
It is not practically mandated that every week Catholics attend services on Sunday at a Protestant Church instead of Catholic Mass!
I don’t know who told you that lie. I don’t think the SSPX is THAT bad. If we miss Catholic Mass on Sunday it is a mortal sin and we need to confess before receiving Holy Communion.
There is only one Bishop in the US-Bishop Bruskewitz- who threatened those who attend the SSPX Mass (not set foot in their chapel) with excommunication. The reason was that the SSPX was presenting itself as Catholic in advertisements. He did the same with other groups which call themselves Catholic that are really acting in defiance of the Catholic Church-like Call to Action.
We have never been told to mix with Hindu people, the Buddhists, the Moslems and “native” American spirituality.
In short, your post was nothing but a pack of lies and we all know where lies come from.
Thank God then that you were not born and raised in California, Anonymous, or if you were that your experience has been orthodox. Your ‘pack of lies’ aspersion of Pilar only indicates your utter lack of practical experience and exposure in the Catholic Church across America.
I’m glad to know that at least one Anonymous doesn’t believe the SSPX is THAT bad. Too bad you couldn’t post with an identifiable moniker.
That said, you may try thanking God for the grace of having a solid parish but, please, before attempting to gag others based on your own limited understanding, ask questions. And understand that these crises being reported are not ALL bogus lies…. good grief.
Ann Malley, ask questions?
I have to give credence to the untruths?
Because you like to pretend that the Catholic Church is worse than it is?
…you don’t have to give credence to anything, Anonymous. But asserting that someone is posting all bogus lies lends no weight whatsoever to your assertions.
Have you been in every parish? Have you visited every diocese?
Have you considered that Pilar may have been grossly scandalized in her experience with the Church and perhaps subject to things you have not? Nobody has to pretend the Church is worse than it is, Anonymous. It is what it is. And engaging in open dialogue to discuss what is actually happening instead of rushing to a heated and oft times overzealous correction isn’t necessarily helpful – or accurate.
It is a sin to bear false witness against the Church-a mortal sin.
OK, AM, if you are going to defend Pilar’s statement that “it is practically mandated that every week Catholics attend ‘services’ on Sunday at a Protestant church, instead of Catholic Mass”, please tell us which parishes mandate or practically mandate that every week. Anony was right, I would use different words than s/he used, but Pilar’s statement is hogwash. I would reach out to Pilar now and ask her to have the integrity to admit that it was a statement that had no connection with reality. The honesty and integrity of you and our friend Pilar are at stake here.
…I defend Pilar’s expressing herself as she sees fit, YFC. Folks who have been scandalized have a tendency to be very hot and impassioned. Going so far as to state something is hogwash or has no connection to reality is absurd – especially in light of the crisis Mother Church is knee deep in…. and neck deep in some areas.
Ann Malley, so defend my right to express myself too, or does only Pilar and you get that right?! Pilar’s statement IS hogwash. If you defend it, you color all the rest of your comments in hogwash as well. Then again, most of us knew your own posts to be hogwash already.
Pilar, you are incorrect. Please read the Vatican II documents prior to posting about ecumenism. What you may have heard, or seen is not true.
We are NOT to attend non-Catholic services of any kind without specific permission of our Diocese Bishop and then only under special circumstances.
Vatican II Doc – “UNITATIS REDINTEGRATIO” (Ecumenism) –
# 8 “Yet, worship in common (communication in sacris) is NOT to be considered as a means to be used indiscriminately
for the restoration of Christian unity.
There are two main principles bearing witness to the unity of the Church, and second the sharing in the means of grace. Witness to the unity of the Church very generally FORBIDS common worship to Christians, but he grace to be had from it sometimes commends this practice.
The course to be adopted, with due regard to all the circumstances of time, place and persons, IS To BE DECIDED by local EPISCOPAL AUTHORITY, unless otherwise provided by the Bishops’ Conference according to its statutes, or by the Holy See. “
“…Witness to the unity of the Church very generally FORBIDS common worship to Christians, but the grace to be had from it sometimes commends this practice,” is a huge loophole.
Your capitalization of FORBIDS does not negate the preceding term “generally.” (Much like virtually spotless means there are spots.) As Catholics we are forbidden from joining in the worship services of heretics and/or non-Catholics. Keep that in mind when you then read the following assertion that there is ‘grace’ to be had in that which the previous teaching defined as sinful – sinful enough for common worship to be FORBIDDEN.
Go forward then in the “teaching” to the course to be adopted being subject with due regard to all the circumstances of time, place, and persons. Again, your capitalization of to be decided by the episcopal authority only points out that said authority now seems to deign themselves capable of deciding when that which was mortally sinful and a grave danger to the Faith is now a channel of grace.
Sorry, but common worship is not grace giving with regard to the Truth, but rather detrimental to the Faith of Catholics as the practice of it implies that there is no difference – therefore why should one convert? Why should one remain Catholic in the fullness of the Catholic Faith? (Recall what happened to the Israelites when they allowed pagan altars to be set up inside the temple in Jerusalem.)
Ann Malley, only the Diocese Bishop can give permission to attend a non-Catholic service.
This includes any services performed by the SSPX who “do not legitimately exercise any ministry in the Church”.
DAVID V, your bias against the Society is duly noted, but continuing to attempt to call Catholics, not Catholic, is completely baseless and unduly divisive considering the crisis within Holy Mother Church.
That said, it was the Diocesan Bishops who called for and/or allowed the scandalizing of young Catholics in Catholic schools who were required to attend non-Catholic services as part of class assignments and necessary for graduation. (My parents paid dearly for my being scandalized.) I was one of said students, David V. So while you’re looking to the authority and integrity of Diocesan Bishops, so are we all. That is why it is the double speak of “generally” next to “forbidden” which calls one’s attention to the reality that that which is gravely dangerous to the faith – so much so that it would be forbidden – is now up to the discretion of Bishops behaving badly. (And yet you would defend the authority to send unformed children into harms way on a whim of experimentation… that may be your kind of Catholic, obeying even that which is scandalous and dangerous to the Faith, but not mine. It is precisely such experimentation run amok that has given +Cordelione the lovely prize that is his diocese. And a faithful who are, in large part, without faith. Forget obedient.)
God bless you for your unbiased charity toward fellow Catholics.
Ann Malley comment, as usual, “spot on”: and this V2 conciliar document (decree Unit. Redintegratio, 1964) shows once again how, in the post-conciliar church, something is “forbidden,” then somehow permitted; and then finally, the local bishop (being a mini – pope now) can do as he pleases. Not in the Holy Spirit—It is called “the Spirit of Vatican 2.”
….God bless you, Steve Phoenix! And keep posting despite the qwackers.
Pilar, I know what you mean. I was asked one time while on a committee to approve a Hindu prayer for use in a parish. After talking to two other priests, one from a very orthodox (with a small “o”) Catholic church that had the Ordinary Mass and one a bi ritual Catholic priest, it was confirmed that I was right in refusing. One of the problems is that in California we have some priests whose parents were converts from non Christian religions, and they are not well taught about drawing the lines between what is truly Christian and what is truly pagan. The prayer called upon pagan gods, and such a prayer cannot be used in any truly Christian church. It is like mixing African voodoo or European wicca in with Christianity. One should not do that, and it is being done in some places.
I should clarify that the prayer was to be said by Hindu priests in honor of a person who had died. The proper thing to do would have been to allow them to come to the Mass to honor the person, but not to pray publically.
Anne T. you did the right thing and you were also humble enough to not rely on your own judgement but to consult with other priests.
I know you will not want praise for yourself so I will praise the Lord for his graces to you.
Priests have ZERO authority to allow any non-Catholic services in any Catholic Church.
Per Vatican II, a Bishop must approve any deviations.
Priests have ZERO authority to allow any non-Catholic services in any Catholic Church.
Per Vatican II, a Diocese Bishop must approve any deviations, and then only under very rare circumstances.
……..and yet they do, DAVID V. And this despite the reality that Churches are consecrated. There seems to be no understanding of the defilement of sacred objects/places. I suppose defilement goes on a case by case basis now, at the discretion of the Bishop. That’s a problem, friend.
Could you please document your claim that Catholic churches allow non-Catholic services?
It’s old, but I could keep searching for you, Anonymous, that is unless you want to do your own leg work.
Sorry, Anonymous. Switched computers and am forgot to reenter/save my name info. That said, the previous Anonymous post is mine.
Ann Malley, thank you for the link. It was over 10 years ago. And it is a source that is not really objective. I see that it calls itself Catholic but it is not what Catholics call Catholic,
I have to say that if this website is the kind of “Catholic” website you read-no wonder you perceive things the way you do.
If this is your idea of Catholic, no wonder you think the SSPX is Catholic.
…yes, over 10 years ago. One example, Anonymous. That said, it’s not just the news site that is important, but whether or not the “event” actually occurred. It did. And such “outreach” events still do occur, Anonymous, and with diocesan approval.
So while you may visit sites wherein such events are reported to be okay or simply not reported, that’s not representing what is actually occurring in the “Catholic” community, but rather what sounds good.
The idea here, at least for me, is to understand what is actually “happening”, not to go to a news source to learn what Catholic is. Learning the actual Faith is had from Scripture, the Catechism, the Deposit of the Faith and Holy Tradition etc. And the Faith then is to be reflected in actual practice – at least it should be.
That is why when events as this one occurs, it is troublesome as it goes against that which “is” Catholic, not just what we “think” Catholic is. If you can read about such an event and not find it unsuitable to the Catholic Faith, then it is no wonder that your “perception” of the Faith seems so completely different than that which was passed down to us…. that is prior to the 60s.
That said, what is your objective view of the event. No spin. Do you think allowing non-Catholic prayers and services is okay in a Church that is consecrated strictly for Catholic worship? And if so, under what conditions? Do you think allowing that which is objectively non-Catholic to occur in a Sacred space is not in conflict with our Faith?
Ann Malley, now you have me really confused. I don’t like the term flip-flop so I won’t use it here, but please explain how a few months ago you were insisting that a Hindu in Tibet could be in a state of grace by following his conscience and obeying the Law of God in his heart and TODAY you are decrying Hindus in Michigan praying in a Catholic Church.
Now for your question-Non Catholic services do not belong in a Catholic Church. Non-Catholic prayers? If you mean prayers to false Gods, no. If you mean prayers written to the Holy Trinity by a non-Catholic, depends-not during liturgy. If you mean a non-Catholic praying to the Holy Trinity in his own words, why not? But again not during liturgy.
As for this event, I cannot verify it. There is one other mention on another sedevacantist site but that site said it was Buddhists. Which is a lot different than Hindus. So, no, I cannot verify that the event occurred or if it did, what the event was and why it occurred.
Assuming that it did occur, why would I let the decision of an individual made in Michigan 10 years ago effect the way I see the Holy Catholic Church, which is the Mystical Body of Christ and the only means of Salvation?
Why would I sin against the Faith because someone else did?
Anonymous, you have yourself confused. If you’d like to understand the position of the Society, go visit their website. If you do not, don’t. That’s okay. If you don’t understand the difference between invincible ignorance and allowing false worship inside a Catholic Church and on Catholic altars, then go seek answers.
That said, nobody is asking you to predicate your salvation on what you read. Or even the events happening in the Church today. But when you attempt to call out others as unfaithful and/or schismatic without having the credentials and/or the knowledge to do so, you open yourself up for confusion.
Having said as much, and “assuming” that what was written did occur, and it did, friend, in addition to myriad other such instances – Assisi I, II, and III to be precise, it would seem that there are others in positions of authority who, at least in practice, appear to have a different understanding of the Mystical Body of Christ. That may not bother you, since your focus seems to be on your interpretation. But when “interpretation” becomes the norm and that interpretation varies from Bishop to Bishop then there is slow, but very steady and predictable change that occurs.
Hence the having to suffer with +Cordelione – because not everyone in authority enjoys the certitude about what the Catholic Church actually teaches. If they did, then there wouldn’t be the mess in SF to clean up.
Oh, good news, Ann Malley..
I found the article about it. It was Buddhists From Tibet.
And they didn’t defile the sanctuary because 50 members of the SSPX showed up and prayed the Rosary so loud that the Buddhists couldn’t do their chant.
They had to go to the basement.
I don’t know that Buddhist chant is worship. It is prayer but not to a God or being.
WARNING: The link to dailycatholic above is to a SEDEVACANTIST website.
Very few seem to understand the acidulous left that hates authentic Catholicism, and which is so extant these days. Theses lefties seemed to think that they had conquered the Catholic School system in San Fransicko, and were within striking distance of achieving their goal of complete dominance of the S.F. Catholic Schools. And then came Abp. Cordileone and his beginning to upend their hegemony they THOUGHT they’d achieved. Of course there’s a scream of pain from these subversive wothies. And it’s all mixed up with Same-Sexedness and the GayStopo gendarmes that appear to saturate so much of Sodom-By-the-Bay, and it’s environs, resulting in a great gloppy goo of sexual subjectivism, Narcissism on steroids, and the maniacs that have abounded with impunity for twenty or more years. It’ll probably take some dry martyrdom by the good Archbishop and his followers to make some headway against the forces of darkness afflicting this once-beautiful city. Just hope that it won’t turn into the WET kind. May the Holy Immaculate Virgin pray for and succor the Faithful in their struggle to purify the Ancient Faith there.
Bishops need to start excommunicating Catholics who give Grave Scandal, and speak against the teachings of the Church – per the Code of Canon Law.
If you don’t like the teachings of the Catholic Faith, leave.
Yes, indeed, Sandy. The authority does need to speak clearly about those who are actively scandalizing the sheep within the Church. They need to speak officially and defend the Faith. They haven’t, however, not for a very, very long time.
And it is the ‘why’ behind why they don’t speak that is the real question.
Uh, SSPX is one of the biggest causes of scandal around, setting up its own little “chapels” as though they are canonical parishes, ordaining whichever bishops and priests it decides are “real” catholic bishops, and all the while ignoring their call to obey the Pope.
You are simply ignorant, “Anonymous”. The SSPX priests are fully Catholic and fully ordained. What they presently lack is a “canonical status” within the Church.
Even so, their masses are valid, and sacraments (although with two there are issues which only involved issues of jurisdiction, which is withheld for strictly political reasons). These are wonderful priests and well-educated ones, as well (unlike the many “sociology-priests” that come ouf of current N.O. Catholic seminaries, who are simply ignorant about the Mass and about the Catholic Faith; the Church did not start only at the time of Vatican II).
Of course, “Anonymous” you overlook the real cause of Catholic scandal: cardinals and bishops, such as Cardinals Dolan, Wuerl, Kasper, Marx, Baldisseri, Danneels, Maradiaga, and Abp. Cupich, McElroy, Forte, and others.
These men grovel at the altar of popular acceptance, particularly of sexual license. They are willing to throw over centuries of Catholic doctrine so that sodomites, who can never marry, will have the same religious recognition as licitly married man-woman relationships. All of them, all, need to be directed to resign their posts and to spend their remaining years on Earth at a monastery praying for forgiveness, and doing penitental works.
Enjoy the spectacle of a sitting Catholic Cardinal leading the St. Paddy’s Day Parade, in front of banners celebrating catamites, and their eternally evil physical connections. Hang your head in shame.
I think you should be more wary of this.’
If someone is in mortal sin and is excommunicated they are deprived of grace. The Mass they say is valid because of the grace of the Sacrament of Holy Orders. Not because of any personal virtue of theirs. The Mass they say is devoid of the graces that would come from being in Communion with the Body of Christ.
They may be able to teach the Catechism; even non-Catholics can do that. The grace is in the Catechism, not in the sinner who teaches it.
The effects of mortal sin are death to the soul, loss of friendship with God, darkness of the mind. It destroys any merits the soul has up to that time. Faith and Hope may remain but Charity leaves the soul.
“All the actions of a man in a state of mortal sin are dead; they have no merit or power to prevail before God for his salvation. So long as he is separated from God, nothing he does has saving power.”
Obstinacy in sin is one of the six sins against the Holy Spirit.
What are you talking about, “Anonymous”? The bishops and priests of the SSPX are not excommunicated; that sanction having been lifted around 2009.
Who are in constant mortal sin, however, are homosexuals, and their enablers, as well as fornicators, pornographers, adulterers, those using contraception, abortionists, and others that violate the Church’s sexual ethics requirements.
…Anonymous is talking obfuscation and purple giraffes. The “scandal” is precisely the Catholic Church behaving as if She is not Catholic while there are no “OFFICIAL” pronouncements to warn those who would save their soul.
St. Christopher, I do not read German so I have to go by the English translation, although I believe “de facto” is a poor translation.
The Italian newspaper Corriere della Sera published on 22 December 2013 an interview with Müller in which he was asked: “Now that the discussions have failed, what is the situation of the Lefebvrians?” Müller replied: “The canonical excommunication for the illicit ordinations has been lifted from the bishops, but the sacramental de facto excommunication for schism remains; they have departed from communion with the Church. We do not follow that up by shutting the door, we never do, and we call on them to be reconciled. But on their part too, they must change their attitude and accept the Catholic Church’s conditions and the Supreme Pontiff as the definitive criterion of membership”
Ann Malley, there is an official pronouncement.
Those who do not want to obey the Church, make up all kinds of justifications, excuses, prevarications and distortions.
Thank you for sticking with official pronouncements. Nobody is denying them. Rather folks are working with regard to the graces given and the crisis situations in which they find themselves.
And again, it would do you well before asserting motives to others, to understand that “official” in no way equates to final.
St. Christiopher , there are a lot of mortal sins.
“In the present circumstances I wish especially to make an appeal both solemn and heartfelt, paternal and fraternal, to all those who until now have been linked in various ways to the movement of Archbishop Lefebvre, that they may fulfil the grave duty of remaining united to the Vicar of Christ in the unity of the Catholic Church, and of ceasing their support in any way for that movement. Everyone should be aware that formal adherence to the schism is a grave offence against God and carries the penalty of excommunication decreed by the Church’s law.”
St. Pope John Paul II Ecclesia Dei
Ann Malley, thank you for posting the page from olrl. I do not believe that the history they give on St. Athanasius is historically correct (he was not the only one to stay true to the Catholic Faith) but the point is a good one.
Stay faithful to the Church and the Faith.
That is exactly what people have been trying to tell you for two years.
…you mistake the position of St. Athanasius, Anonymous. He stayed faithful to the Faith despite being made out to be outside the Faith by those in official positions. So I’m glad you got the point. That’s precisely what I’ve been attempting to tell you for 2 years. I’m glad we finally understand one another.
I’m glad you take the point that it is the Faith we must cleave to, Anonymous, but understand that St. Athanasius was the one being made out to be outside the Church by those embracing heresy within.
We all know that that was done to hide their own infidelity, despite having the authority and buildings. Perhaps now that you understand the position, you can attempt to be truly charitable and build continued understanding of the truth of the situation instead of conflating the issue with erroneous pronouncements of schism and other divisive assertions.
The Church is in crisis, friend, and those who hold the Faith – thereby belonging to the Church – must ban together. Not throw superior stones.
Thank goodness you finally understand that those who hold the Faith “are” in the Church, Anonymous. It is not so much a matter of holding the building or the position of authority or even an “official” position. So glad to know you finally understand that it is the Faith that matters. It’s taken you a long time to come to terms with that, but being fixed on buildings is difficult, I understand, because that is your comfort zone. No judgement on you.
So yes, the point of keeping the Faith despite being persecuted or told that one is outside the Faith as you have done out of misguided zeal for 2 years, is “the” critical issue.
I am glad, however, for the example and precedence of St. Athanasius. So while he no doubt would have championed St. Joan of Arc, I don’t think he would have derided you for staying mum. Again, that is where you are well set. Although, he may have taken issue with you tutting those lamenting St. Joan’s persecution. The why being because your assertions are wrong and have been for quite some time.
St. Christopher, the pious intonations of Our Fellow Uninformed Catholic Anonymous Novus Ordo Duck friends that “there are a lot of mortal sins” (and that certain people are excommunicate and in mortal sin) shows (1) their preternatural knowledge of hearts, and their exemption from Mt. 7-1ff (“Judge not lest ye be judged..”); and also (2) that their general Duck-Dynasty judgment of other Catholic traditional groups’ (SSPX, etc) damnation assures their own salvation.
On the day of their own individual judgment, the Novus Oregon Ducks will each proclaim to Our Lord that they deserve salvation because they anonymously proclaimed (on a web-site, mind you: how safe is that!) the damnation of their brethren, and because they “followed the rules” of the Official Church, which Our Sovereign Pontiff proclaims (Mar. 7th address, Ognissanti Church, Rome, 50th anniversary of the Traditional Latin Mass in the vernacular—yes, it wasn’t the Bugnini-creation of the Novus Ordo, our Duck friends were anonymous to that fact) is to “Go forward, always go forward!”
They did not question: “Forward to what?” Forward to 10% Mass attendance? Zero? Mass apostasy and hand over the churches, starting in Europe, to the Muslims for use as mosques (this is already being proposed)? What in 50 frigging years have we not done in the “Spirit of Vatican II”, Holy Father? And where were you? Moving up the rungs of power, even as you washed out of your Ph.D program at Frankfurt. A great mind here.
The Ducks’ route to the beatific vision:
” No, Lord, I blamed the SSPX, a group of 600 priests world-wide for the catastrophe in the Church, and by so doing, I knew I would save my soul.” Have at it, my blindfolded feathered friends!
Um. Ann Malley, I really don’t know what you are talking about. You should seriously study the Catechism and learn the History of the Church. What is all this “outside the Church?” stuff. The only one who uses that phrase on this whole page is you. What ARE you going on about?
Steve Phoenix, you need a refresher course as well. You think salvation is from works or something? The only mention of damnation on this page is in your post.
Are you two having a conversation with imaginary friends or something?
So apparently, according to River Phoenix, we are now called Novus Oregon Ducks.
Before I even dignify those posts, I just have to ask: Are we really having a serious conversation here? Or are we just chasing after people who have no honest interest in dialogue.
Novus Oregon Ducks. Really? is that any way to refer to those who go to Christ’s faithful Mass every Sunday?
“…Um. Ann Malley, I really don’t know what you are talking about.”
Of course, you don’t understand, Anonymous. Understanding what the Faith seems to not be what you were taught, just follow the leader. When “authority” for the sake of authority takes precedence over what that authority is established to do, however, we have blind children following the cops into the drug bust.
Generally such action is FORBIDDEN as it is gravely dangerous. But hey, you’re with a cop. If “he” says it’s safe, it’s safe :) Funny thing, though, nobody is getting arrested rather everyone’s learning from the experience to see what “drugs” are really like – even the cop – so we can understand the good aspects of them. But no worries. The kids (and cops ;^) know experimenting is only for purposes of outreach and getting to know each other and get that “smell” of each other.
And when some kids don’t want to leave, but rather stay with their cool new friends, who are we to judge?! As for Faith coming from works – you may want to read up, but at the very least attempt to understand that believing what Christ said is somewhat of a work – not a hard one, if one prays for the grace to be able to do so. But asserting that one trusts in God only to proceed to disobey that which He says is presumptuous at best – and certainly not an imitation of Christ who did NOT jump off the cliff at the behest of Satan.
Ann Malley, I just want to acknowledge your post and let you know that I read it. I do not have the faintest idea what your post means.
You just seem to take words and phrases from a post and try to turn them against the person who posted them at the expense of making any sense.
A lot of the confusion seems to be that you cannot separate the organization SSPX (which is not an institution of the Catholic Church) and the priest members of it (who are all suspended Catholic priests.)
As for adhering to the Catholic Faith, you seem to think there is an invisible Church made up of all those who believe the Catholic Faith. That is not the Church that Christ established. He established the one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church which is united with the See of Peter and the Supreme Pontiff.
If your posts reflected a knowledge and adherence to the Catholic Faith, we could have a better discussion but you honestly don’t seem to know it or to follow it.
I used to think the SSPX was a fairly benign organization of Catholic priests who did not like the new Mass and said the old Latin Mass. It really wasn’t until you posted links to their website that I realized how much of the Faith they have already lost. Others have posted serious error and heresy taught by priests of the SSPX. You seem to have blinders on when it comes to them. I can only pray that you will learn and adhere to the Catholic Faith. It seems like you swallow anything you are told depending on who tells it to you.
They just want to be mean and to punish anyone who dares to adhere to a Faith they have rejected.
Although, I am sure they feel they adhere to some purified version of it.
Nice try, Anonymous. But you cannot blame the messenger for the obvious reality that things have changed very much in the Church when comparing pre to post VII. (Convenient that the Oath Against Modernism which precludes interpreting doctrine in “new” and “different” ways was done away with by Paul VI.)
And whereas other posters in their own discombobulated misunderstanding of what constitutes heresy and/or serious error point to these purple giraffes in an abundance of misguided zeal, that in no way renders such red herrings as factual, friend. Rather they are an excess of an individual, something to be dismissed for pointing out the window won’t distract from the chaos in the house.
That said, it is again absolutely NO wonder why you cannot understand what I posted. You may want to reread:
Read for understanding this time, Anonymous, because you are missing the point St. Athanasius is making entirely, too.
God bless and thank you for your prayers.
No one should commit or support mortal sin.
Mortal sin does not become OK because someone else committed a mortal sin.
Mortal sin does not become good because more people are committing it.
Ann Malley, things have changed in the Church since 1950.
For the better.
Everything that was of value in the pre-Vatican II Church is still here.
Ann Malley, I guess I have to remind you once again that Saint Athanasius always taught in DEFENSE of a sacred ecumenical council. You and the SSPX deny a sacred ecumenical council. This is why you and SSPX cannot claim the mantle of an Athanasius against a world that woke up and found itself in heresy.
….it’s about defense of the Faith, whole and entire, YFC. That is why your frenzied post only confirms what I wrote.
God bless you for delivering yet again.
Ann Malley, this is a sincere question:
Would these fit into the definition of Catholic?
In Italy we have scores of groups of Catholics who are half in, half outside the Catholic Church and they normally follow apocalyptic private revelations not recognised by the Church and they have chapels which, from a canonical point of view, are illegal chapels. They are not authorised by a bishop…. Some of these groups are well hidden. They may await the end of the world, not believe Pope Francis is the real Pope, follow this and that ‘revelation’ of Jesus and the Virgin Mary. But there are probably several hundred such semi-clandestine groups in Italy.”
(The quote is from the Register by sociologist Edward Pentin.)
Heresy, apostasy and schism carry the punishment of latae sententiae excommunication. It is automatic. It does not need to be declared by a bishop.
I agree Sandy. That is why i feel that its up to the lay faithful to put the pressure on our bishops.
The post from 1002 am was mine. I cleared my cookies and forgot to add my name. So here it is now to clear up any confusion that this may have caused. Always remember to make sure your name is there or else it will become anonymous.
The editors claim the criticism of Archbishop over his teacher policy constituted “martyrdom”. Several commenters to this article say that this respectful if public criticism amounts to the “persecution” of “white martyrdom”. How do you all feel after today’s news that the Cathedral has essentially been waterboarding the homeless for 2 years?? For two years, during the worst drought in 1000 years, he has illegally dumped hundreds of gallons a day onto homeless people, from dozens of feet overhead, in an effort to get them to leave the cathedral! Now the auxiliary bishop apologises saying the program, saying it didn’t have the desired effect. Well, how many years was he going to do this before he realized that this torture wasn’t ever going to have his desired effect?: To turn the homeless away from church grounds. I can’t remember ever being angrier with my local Bishops.
Therefore, commit sodomy.
“waterboarding the homeless”? YFC do you have a clue what waterboarding is?
YFC, wouldn’t you like the homeless to have supervised living quarters, rather than living in doorways – which is not safe for children, the elderly, or many homeless – with health issues such as dirty needles, and feces?
I guess that I do not understand homosexual thinking that it is good or safe for people to live in doorways.
Would you want to put your family members in doorways ?
Providing housing for the homeless is the job of local and state governments – since they have the financial where-with-all to provide appropriate living quarters – and supervision from alcoholics, drug users, the mentally deranged and other dangers.
Mentally deranged, alcoholics, and drug users should be placed by the government where they can not harm others or themselves.
Protection of society is the job of the Police and appropriate government agencies.
People need to start calling the Police when they see the homeless sleeping or living on private property in doorways. So that they can get proper care as needed as well as government housing.
We are supposed to defend our (arch)bishops and leadership in general, but when Our Fellow Uninformed Catholic [NO/Nervous Ordeal] Anonymous Ducks quack-quack/say that we are to do so, then it is time to attack them, take-em down when they they quack-quack/order so (the current pre-text: Archbishop C’s “crimes against humanity,” e.g. cruelty to the homeless).
Come, come Anonymous Fellow Uninformed Catholics, do you really/have you ever really worked with the homeless? Ever? (I have: do you know the biggest problem in the SF Bay Area is that we have so many agencies that can put people up overnight, there is a vigorous competition to get the “clients” in the door so we get paid that night…) Fr. Alfred Boedekker,OFM, founder of St Anthony’s Dining Room, yes, who I met and worked under as a teen just before his passing, was a tough director and would never put up with the nonsense that passes for “com-paaaasssss-ion” today. (He was very tough with some of us, his workers too: no nonsense.)
This is not the real issue: of course, we know the real issue is Cordileone’s stand on traditional Catholic moral teaching. But quack-quack away, always the same sound, nothing wrong to attack magisterial hierarchy when it suits one to do so. Now, in the next breath will you blame the SSPX and the sedes-vac-aaaahn-tists as the threat facing the Church? A. Yes.
Mar. 19th, 2015, N.O. Duck post: “Ann Malley, things have changed in the Church since 1950. For the better. Everything that was of value in the pre-Vatican II Church is still here.”
Hmmm. Mass attendance in 1960 was about 80% or more in the US; 47% in 1974; 24% in 2012 (Pew Survey results). Not that it matters of course. In the Netherlands, it was about 50% Catholic in 1960: After the Dutch Schism (a real schism, Duck friends) of 1968, it is now, according to Card. Primate Eijk, about 16%, and dropping. In Germany and France, the same precipitous drop. Not that it matters, of course. In the US, we had over 58,000 priests in 1965 and about 180k religious sisters: today (2014), 38,000 priests, many of them over age 60, and 50,000 religious sisters.
And someone has the chutzpah to claim “everything has changed…for the better?” Yes, for Screwtape and Wormwood’s side. So which side ARE you on?
By the way one can look at these statistics at the CARA Georgetown research website (at least the US numbers), and try to shake oneself out of one’s almost-psychotic state of dis-understanding reality. Not that it really matters, of course.
“Strongly urging,” and” recommending” in liberal terms translates into MANDATING. Bishops Clark, Clooney, Hubbard, Uttener and others had this practice in their dioceses. These bishops have retired, but the damage they did is still among us.
The pogrom against ordinary persons, such as teachers like Patricia Januzzi, Sr Jane Laurel, OP, and nnow even against Archbp. Cordileone of San Francisco, is of course a specific focus of the much larger picture: the larger view is the chaos introduced into the Catholic Church and (as some of us predicted) a purge against those who hold Catholic belief. Whence originates the chaos? Well, who called for the mis-named “Synod on the Family”?
1 Cor 14:31 in a few brief words summarizes the essence of the Rules for the Discernment of Spirits of the Spiritual Exercises of St Ignatius: “God is a God of order, not confusion.”
Look around you at the fragments of the Church today. The internal war undeway against P. Benedict XVI during his pontificate was not visited on the whole church, but now its material agent, the present pontiff, has spread this spirit of disorder and chaos through the whole Church, and as predicted here, he would facilitate and actually encourage a war on those Catholics (whom he pejoratively calls “Doctors of the Law” (Sermon, Mar. 17, 2015, Domus S. Martha Chapel). Januzzi, Cordileone, Burke, Pell and many others are bodies to be stepped over on the journey that PF insists is to “Go forward, always forward!” (Mar. 7th 2015 address, Ognissanti Church, Rome). Forward to what, Holy Father? 10% Mass attendance? Zero? European Catholicism, now in free-fall, to 15% identification? To “none”? Is that a measure of your success? But there is never any accountability for outcomes in Novus Ordo Church: it is all the fault of the usual suspects—the SSPX, fractious trad groups, Ann Malley. Convenient, very convenient.
As Card. Mario Luigi Ciappi, one of the few besides the post 1960’s popes who actually read the 150 single space lines of the 3rd Fatima secret (not the several pages released in the 1990’s), said: ““In the Third Secret it is foretold, among other things, that the great apostasy in the Church will begin at the top.” Never before have I felt so compellingly has it been that I see this prophecy now fulfilled before our eyes.
Now note: the same persons who attack Cordileone for speaking the Catholic truth will now wrap themselves in the duck-plumage of “obedience to the Magisterium” and defend the indefensible present pontiff.