Posted Thursday, February 09, 2012 2:02 AM By MIKE
All Americans should oppose any violation of the US Constitution, because this affects us all. If OBAMA is allowed to get away with this, any group could be next on any issue – freedom of speech, freedom of the press, etc, This is about FREEDOM of RELIGION. The Obama political machine and liberal/progressive media will try to spin it as only about contraception. The Bill of Rights – Article I “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.” Hold OBAMA accountable – VOTE against him and those in Congress who support his abomination especially in the Senate. Obama’s mandate is against the freedom of Americans, against the standing principles and law of the USA, and against God.
Posted Thursday, February 09, 2012 2:05 AM By OSCAR
All Americans should stand together. Obama’s attack on FREEDOM OF RELIGION is just like Hilter’s. First the Government will tell you what you must do and how to behave in public. Then they will chip away at everyone’s rights in every area until there are none left.
Posted Thursday, February 09, 2012 2:08 AM By Anne
Chemical and mechanical contraception – HARM the HEALTH of women. Just read the warning labels on the packages.
Posted Thursday, February 09, 2012 3:17 AM By Dan
Archbishop George H. Niederauer of San Fransisco Diocese, and Cardinal Donald Wuerl of Washington DC, and others have allowed the mortal sins of SCANDAL and SACRILEGE to continue by so-called Catholic politicians – under the guise of working with them – to convert them back into the fold. As long as these politicians know that there are no penalties for them, they and their electorate will believe they are right in supporting serious anti-Catholic positions such as abortion, euthanasia, sodomy, and other mortal sins. These polticians will continue to lead many other souls astray by continuing to call themselves “good” Catholic leaders and “do not follow the Bishops”. Some Catholics will assume that the Eucharist is not the Body and Blood of Christ – after all, what Bishop would support sacrilege?! All Bishops who have public HERETICS or SCHISMATICS in their Diocese must stop them now. Enforce CANON 915 publically without discrimination. This lack of enforcement is one reason why the percentages are only in the 50-50 range in the above poll. How many heretics participated? The total lack of publically encouraging all Catholics to read and study the CCC so they can form a good conscience is the other reason for the poll numbers. How many uncatechised Catholic participated? Many Souls are at stake, and some Bishops need to realize that they are part of the problem affecting the entire USA. If the faithful Catholic Church becomes smaller in the USA so be it. Acts 20:29-30; Rom 16:17-18; 1Cor 11:27; 1Cor 15:33; 2Cor 11:13-15; Eph 5:6-7; Tit 3:10-11.
Posted Thursday, February 09, 2012 4:52 AM By Juergensen
The Church is the Body of Christ (CCC 1368). Therefore, this attack on the Church by Obama is an attack on Christ Himself, making Obama an antichrist, one of “many antichrists [who] have come; therefore we know that it is the last hour” (1 John 2:18) (RSV). What does this say of those “Catholics” who voted for Obama? Worse, what does this say of those “Catholics” who today – some right here on this forum – speak with forked tongues to mislead others into voting for Obama?
Posted Thursday, February 09, 2012 5:24 AM By Joan
On the other side of the country a battle for religious freedom is taking place at Vanderbilt University. Evidently a Catholic student group has been told that they must allow anyone to join their group.this same policy does not apply to other groups on campus. The group went heads on with the university officials and there is much discussion etc going on with planned open protests.you wont see this issueat Vandy on CNN.Pray.Please.
Posted Thursday, February 09, 2012 5:39 AM By JLS
MIKE, the Constitution has been watered down so far that your hope of its “resurrection” is all but futile. A. It’s provision that voters have to be hard working and responsible citizens (called property owners at that time of writing it) washed away its foundation. B. Critical to not place one’s hopes and dreams on something that no longer supports the civilization. C. The answer lay in the bishops and abbots (which would do well to arise again) becoming holy as the Pope has called for … because this is what converted the west in the first place, and is the only force that can change the world for the better.
Posted Thursday, February 09, 2012 5:57 AM By BJ
Obama is very suave and silky …. all things to all people, except the defencelss innocent preborn human beings whose deaths he is so ready to finance with everbodyelses money.
Posted Thursday, February 09, 2012 6:44 AM By Juergensen
Actually, USA Today reports that “58% of all Catholics agree employers should be required to provide their employees with health care plans that cover contraception.” This just goes to show what a fine job the bishops have been doing catechizing the faithful. No wonder the USCCB removed all links to the Catechism of the Catholic Church from its website homepage. It’s no longer needed!
Posted Thursday, February 09, 2012 7:53 AM By MacDonald
@ Juergensen — having often used the USCCB’s link to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, I found your claim surprising. It’s right there! Took me about five seconds to find all kinds of helpful tabs on the Catechism, including “Conformity Review.” The website of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops has all kinds of good stuff.
Posted Thursday, February 09, 2012 8:02 AM By Ted
All the arm waving that’s going on is almost encouraging. But I’m waiting to see what Catholic voters do in November, will they stand for the Church and the Church’s rights under the Constitution? That and only that will tell the tale we need to hear and understand. The generations since Vatican II are so poorly catechized that I believe that ghoul Obama will get the Catholic vote again. I sure hope I’m wrong, too !
Posted Thursday, February 09, 2012 8:28 AM By JimAroo
45% of Catholic voters favored the Obama mandate… and only 31% of Evangelicals favored the Obama mandate. Ergo, Evangelicals are better Catholics than Catholics are. They are more on our side than we are. We have met the enemy and he is us!
Posted Thursday, February 09, 2012 8:39 AM By Matt
MacDonald, the CCC used to have a prominent heading on the USCCB Home page. The Bible and the CCC is the most important teaching they have. Now it is hidden, and the average person will no longer find it unless they know that they will eventually find it if they just keep searching. I just sent a complaint to my Bishop about the Staff at USCCB and their web supression of the CCC.
Posted Thursday, February 09, 2012 8:45 AM By Juergensen
@ MacDonald: My claim may be surprising to you, but it’s true. All links to the Catechism of the Catholic Church have been removed from the USCCB website home page. The USCCB home page used to have prominent links to the CCC; it doesn’t anymore. Your claim that “It’s right there!” is simply false. It’s NOT on the homepage, as it used to be. Now, to access the CCC on the USCCB website, one must take the following steps: (1) Click on the “Evangelization and Catechesis” link on the very bottom of the HOME page; (2) Click on the “Catechesis” link on the SECOND page; (3) Click on the “Catechism of the Catholic Church” link on the THIRD page; and (4) Click on the “Catechism of the Catholic Church” link on the FOURTH page. Finally, there it is, the Catechism of the Catholic Church, buried FIVE PAGES DEEP on the USCCB website. Not exactly a promotion of the CCC. Come to think of it, this hiding of the CCC is pretty much in line with the reception accorded the CCC by much of the American episcopacy.
Posted Thursday, February 09, 2012 8:45 AM By MIKE
FLASH – – – – EWTN – Eternal Word Television Network (Mother Angelica’s network) has just filed suit AGAINST the OBAMA Administration for violation of their 1st Amendment Rights.
Posted Thursday, February 09, 2012 8:50 AM By Sarah
“First they came for the Communists, and I didn’t speak out because I was not a Communist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn’t speak out because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn’t speak out because I was not a Jew. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn’t speak out because I was not a Catholic. Then they came for me and there was no one to speak out for me.” Pastor Niemoller in Hitler’s Germany. If no one speaks out to defend the right to the free exercise of religion for the Catholics (regarding providing contraception, sterilization and abortion) which group will be next?
Posted Thursday, February 09, 2012 8:52 AM By MIKE
JLS, stop being such a nay sayer. If you want to sit on your hands that is up to you. I don’t live in CA with the dead wood Catholics. Its up to you to wake them up. My State adopted as part of it’s State Constitution strong property rights so no government can take private property for non-governmental purposes. You can do the same if you try hard enough.
Posted Thursday, February 09, 2012 8:54 AM By MIKE
FLASH – – – Catholic College Belmont Abbey College (Catholic) and Colorado Christian University (Evangelical) filed suit against the OBAMA Administration for the 1st Amendment violation.
Posted Thursday, February 09, 2012 9:00 AM By JMJ
When & where was this “poll” taken for the Catholics? Sunday morning after Mass? With about 70% of “catholics” using some sort of birth control, this poll doesn’t seem to be very honest, as most Americans are unaware just don’t care of what is at stake with that dictator, the big “o” trying to play God and making up his own rules. Polls and primaries are useless, as we found out here in Fitchburg, Mass. last year, when those that thought we would get a new mayor because of the challenger’s great win in the primaries, didn’t bother to vote in the election & he lost by the same margin. Good comments Dan. Tell it like it is. +JMJ+
Posted Thursday, February 09, 2012 9:02 AM By Susan
JLS, you are supposed to be one of us – the Church Militant fighting for truth and justice on earth. Since God gave you a free will – either join us or get out of the way. But don’t be an obstructionist. It is not our job to wait for the Bishops to do what is good and right – Jesus never taught that. However, I am glad that the US Bishops are taking a leadership role in this. – Join them and us. Unite.
Posted Thursday, February 09, 2012 9:27 AM By Tracy
You are absolutely right on Mike and Oscar. Let me add something. We are now being told by our Bishops and Cardinals, some of them long time supporters of Obama and his ilk, to sign a petition to beg Obama to overturn the the HSS mandate. Let me see, Obama listens to the opposition and throws us a bone, then all of the Catholic Obama supporters say, “See he is a good guy. He listened to us, (i.e. he cares).” Next these devotees of socialism vote him in for a second term. Obama is not our King. He did not give us our constitutional rights, which are actually our God given rights, and he does not have the right to take them away. We therefore should not go begging to him to let us keep our rights. This is a trap! I think EWTN has it right. They are suing him as the whole business is unconstitutional. And yes, pray that the Lord will raise up faithful shepherds willing to lay down their very lives for the truth that is is Jesus Christ.
Posted Thursday, February 09, 2012 10:06 AM By Otto
I agree with all those who say that ALL Catholics, – and in extension, ALL Americans should oppose this rule of a tyrannical socialist government. The sad thing is the headline of this article. We are already trained to see everything through “majority” and “consensus”, and no more in view of TRUTH, and loyalty to the Faith.
Posted Thursday, February 09, 2012 10:39 AM By Abeca Christian
Folks on OneNewsNow website it reports that Shippensburg University in Pennsylvania is now selling the “morning-after” pill via a vending machine. If you have access to their campus health services you can get them for $25.00. Sick! I hate them for calling it health services! I think that these type of University’s want to survive and profit big by providing this sort of immoral things because they can profit big from students pr-marital sex!
Posted Thursday, February 09, 2012 10:51 AM By Allan Wafkowski
President Obama’s oppressive regulations forcing Catholic institutions to provide contraceptive services has finally brought together some of the Catholic bishops. Good, but not enough. We are in this perilous situation precisely because the Catholic bishops have been negligent in their duty to protect the faith from error and dilution. Catholic women use contraceptives and abortion almost on par with all other women. This is an astounding fact that indicates an horrific loss of faith in Catholics, and is a condemnation of those entrusted to pass on the faith. An April 2011 Guttmacher Institute report entitled Countering Conventional Wisdom: New Evidence on Religion and Contraceptive Use concludes from its research that “Most sexually active women who do not want to become pregnant—whether unmarried, currently married or previously married—practice contraception. The large majority use highly effective methods. This is true for women of all religious denominations, including Catholics, despite the Church’s formal opposition to contraceptive methods other than natural family planning.” Other Guttmacher statistics show an even graver picture: Evangelical Protestants are more likely than Catholics or Mainline Protestants to attend religious services on a weekly basis (55% vs. 30% and 24%). The majority of women with a religious affiliation, 57%, indicate that religion is very important in their daily life, and an additional 38% characterize it as somewhat important. Evangelicals are more likely than Catholics or Mainline Protestants to indicate that religion is very important to their daily life (77% vs. 46% and 44%, respectively). Only 3% of married Catholic women who do not want to become pregnant rely on natural family planning; 72% use highly effective methods, including 40% who rely on sterilization. Specific to the bishop’s call to arms against a contraceptive mandate, a recent Public Religion Research Institute report is not encouraging. It states that “58% of all Catholics agree employers should be required to provide their employees with health care plans that cover contraception. That slides down to 52% for Catholic voters, 50% fo
Posted Thursday, February 09, 2012 11:06 AM By Robert Lockwood
The majority of Catholics may oppose this mandate but the fact remains the majority of Catholics would vote today to keep these same people in office. What will it take to wake Catholics us to the true colors of this administration?
Posted Thursday, February 09, 2012 11:43 AM By Catherine
Juergensen, What a badge of honor it is that you are continually being assailed at all different levels for simply telling the truth. I once read that when the devil sees someone pointing others to the truth, he assigns another little minion to attack, distract or diminish the truth being shown.
Posted Thursday, February 09, 2012 1:00 PM By Catherine
Last night on Fox News Michelle Malkin and another female conservative guest said that this mandate is from the pressure being given to Obama by Planned Parenthood and the feminists that support abortion rights. One of the female liberal guests told the other female conservative guest that the only reason she (the conservative guest) was sitting in the Fox News chair next to her was because of birth control. She told her that if her mother had kept having babies she would have never been given all of the opportunities she has been given to be sitting there This liberal female pundit said that the Catholic Church wants to keep all women barefoot and pregnant and if the pill was not used, women could not get ahead. The conservative guest was absolutely outraged and told the liberal female guest, “You know absolutely nothing about my life yet you liberals want to dictate what everyone should think and do. That is the biggest load of blank that I have ever heard come out of the mouth of a liberal.” The liberal woman continued to rant that the pill was a gift to women and that the Church’s opposition is only about discrimination about women.
Posted Thursday, February 09, 2012 1:08 PM By MacDonald
@ Juergensen — you are right, and I stand corrected. For me it was easy to find the Catechism link, but I see your point. The Catechism should be listed on page one, just like the Bible.
Posted Thursday, February 09, 2012 1:29 PM By Diane
To Susan-Well said. I agree, all faithful Catholics must unite and that includes all good Bishops in union with the Holy Father.
Posted Thursday, February 09, 2012 1:40 PM By Juergensen
Catherine: Thank you. No doubt that the devil has minions at work here.
Posted Thursday, February 09, 2012 1:44 PM By Catherine
Allan Wafkowski, Thank you for your excellent post. Let us all pray that Holy Hindsight will become 20/20 Vision. For many years pro-life leaders begged our Bishops to enforce from the pulpit, all of the teachings of the Catholic Church regarding contraception. For many years pro-life leaders have also begged our Bishops to unite and enforce Canon 915. Kathleen Sebelius’s progressive Catholic chickens have come home to roost on the front door of the White House and on the front door of every Catholic bishop in the United States. It is no accident that the head of the HHS calls herself a Catholic and that she feels free to present herself for reception of Holy Communion. Kathleen Sebilius is the “poster example” for our nation of poorly catechized, and pro-abortion supporting Catholic politicians. The unrepentant and undisciplined Prodigal daughter named Kathleen Sebilius has delivered her own Catholic Church the jolting proclamation….”I AM REMOVING YOUR RELIGIOUS RIGHTS”
Posted Thursday, February 09, 2012 2:33 PM By Tom in San Jose
Re. finding the CCC on the USCCB website. It’s true, it takes several clicks to drill down to it, starting with “what we believe” under the “beliefs and teachings” pull-down menu. However, there is a link right on the home page to the troublesome “Catholic Campaign for Human Development”.
Posted Thursday, February 09, 2012 2:45 PM By k
There are at least 3 different polls being reported. since the link above did not work, I cannot verify what CCD is reporting. Rasmussen Reports has apoll which shows a higher percentage of disapproval than the Religion Research poll and, of course, the poll commissioned by Planned Parenthood shows a higher approval rating.
Posted Thursday, February 09, 2012 2:55 PM By Elizabeth
I wish the media would stop saying that 52% of the Catholics voted for Obama in 2008……….NOT THE REAL CATHOLICS I shout back at the television!!! There are cultural Catholics and practicing Catholics, I wish a Priest would go on and tell the secular media that information.
Posted Thursday, February 09, 2012 3:16 PM By k
EWTN has filed suit in US district court in Birmingham against HHS asking the court to find their mandate unconstitutional.
Posted Thursday, February 09, 2012 4:23 PM By JLS
Worse, if college kids can buy the pill from a machine, then they certainly can resell them to kids.
Posted Thursday, February 09, 2012 4:30 PM By JLS
Susan, reread my post, this time without wearing your rose colored glasses. Ask yourself why you believe that the United States is a sovereign nation that follows the free will of the voters. Try to then explain why you believe it. Why should I fall for your pitch “Hey, everyone is doing it, no need to prove why, as it’s obvious” … which pitch you provide with the term “Church militant”. And then, as a Catholic, how to you come up with the idea that the bishops do not matter? Susan, you might actually not be sensitive enough to realize that what you are calling for is an act of Protestantism, which is what Martin Luther and John Calvin swayed millions by … corrupt bishops, therefore ignore them: Can’t do that and remain Catholic, Susan; Rather do what was done in the Aryan heresy and convert the errant bishops back to fidelity to God.
Posted Thursday, February 09, 2012 4:33 PM By JLS
It might be better not to sign the petition and let the bishops go down with their inflated row boat, while we stay aboard the Barque of St Peter; a new crop of actually faithful bishops would help a lot, perhaps recruited from some regions that are not steeped in American Protestantism.
Posted Thursday, February 09, 2012 4:41 PM By Anne T.
Many doctors and nurses now are telling people that the birthcontrol pill helps keep achne and ovarian cancer away. According to Catholic doctors that probably is true, but what some do not tell women is that the Pill and abortions make breast cancer, and possible other cancers, more aggressive, along with other bad side effects such as blood clots and heart trouble. I know. I survived cancer several times becaise I have never taken estrogen in any form. Although all my tumors were very small, they were all susceptible to estrogen which would have made them grow faster had a taken any in pill form. Had I taken the Pill or estrogen I would have been dead over twenty years ago. How many women younger than I died becaise they were taking the Pill? I think a lot.
Posted Thursday, February 09, 2012 6:11 PM By JLS
So with anabolic steroids that build up muscle … for a limited period, and then deteriorates them, along with the mind.
Posted Thursday, February 09, 2012 6:56 PM By Anne T.
I did take a low dose birthcontrol pill for an extremely short length of time, about two months, when advised in my twenties by a non-catholic doctor who wanted to regulate my menstral cycle. I have since found out, from Judhy Brown’s forum on EWTN, that there are better ways to do that without using the Pill. Also, I have found out that the low dose birthcontrol pill can abort a pregnancy in its early stages.
Posted Thursday, February 09, 2012 7:07 PM By Anne T.
I have often had “survivors guilt” and asked myself why God allowed me to live while other women younger than I were allowed to die. I knew that I had sinned, too, and was really no better than many or all of them. I asked myself why did I listen to that priest who told me not to take the Pill. I could very well have said to myself, “What does that old man know?” and took it, but I did not. I think God gave me great graces through the wearing of the Miraculous Medal, and that he wanted me to live to tell others so they too could listen and live. That is the only answer he has given me.
Posted Thursday, February 09, 2012 8:56 PM By Cody in Tucson
Juergensen – I checked the ‘bookmark’ (obviously I am a highly evolved Mac user!) I had for the USCCB Catechism and it is “old.usccb.org/” where you will find the Catechism selection right up there on the top of the home page. This home page seems to be dated sometime in August 2011 so the new home page where the Catechism is buried levels deep happened after that timeframe.
Posted Friday, February 10, 2012 8:11 AM By MARY
I hope everyone will email the USCCB, and their own Diocese Bishop and express disappointment that the USCCB Staff has chosen to bury the Catechism of the Catholic Church on the USCCB web site. And put their own priorities ahead of the CCC. Our Pope has asked that this year of Faith promote the CCC.
Posted Friday, February 10, 2012 7:56 PM By Cody in Tucson
Obama said today that the “insurance companies” will provide all the contraception services that he mandates for free. Carol Keehan says this change makes her happy so Arch Dolan and some of those in the USCCB should now step down from their complaining since MS Keehan says everything is fine now!
Posted Friday, February 10, 2012 10:13 PM By Cody in Tucson
When the White House said that they were having negotiations to end this contraception blowup and the USCCB said that they had received NO calls from Obama, obviously Obama was talking to Carol Keehan of the CHA and other dissidents. So Obama has again used Keehan to drive a wedge through the middle of the Church just like what was done before the Obamacare vote in March of 2010. Now the Church is divided and who will the Sheeples follow, the dissidents who provide cover or some of the bishops in the USCCB? It is obvious to me that most bishops don’t like confrontation and don’t know how to handle it (they have led pretty sheltered lives where they have gotten most of what they want – leading parishes, seminaries, etc), so what are they going to do now ????? It will be interesting to see if they put both legs into their pants now and buck up!
Posted Saturday, February 11, 2012 4:45 AM By MARYANN
Obama and Keehan are tools of Satan – the father of lies. EWTN and many other Catholic organizations are self-insured. Nothing but God and Love in life are FREE. The cost will have to be absorbed elsewhere. Chemical and mechanical contraception are detrimental to women’s health – read the warning labels on the packages. Babies are not deseases, and contraception is not preventative Health Care. CCC: ” 2399 The regulation of births represents one of the aspects of responsible fatherhood and motherhood. Legitimate intentions on the part of the spouses do not justify recourse to morally unacceptable means (for example, direct sterilization or contraception).” CCC: “2370 Periodic continence, that is, the methods of birth regulation based on self-observation and the use of infertile periods, is in conformity with the objective criteria of morality. These methods respect the bodies of the spouses, encourage tenderness between them, and favor the education of an authentic freedom. In contrast, “every action which, whether in anticipation of the conjugal act, or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible” is intrinsically evil: Thus the innate language that expresses the total reciprocal self-giving of husband and wife is overlaid, through contraception, by an objectively contradictory language, namely, that of not giving oneself totally to the other. This leads not only to a positive refusal to be open to life but also to a falsification of the inner truth of conjugal love, which is called upon to give itself in personal totality. . . . The difference, both anthropological and moral, between contraception and recourse to the rhythm of the cycle . . . involves in the final analysis two irreconcilable concepts of the human person and of human sexuality.”
Posted Saturday, February 11, 2012 4:56 AM By DAVID
OBAMA is doing his best to impose the religion of ‘SECULAR HUMANISM’ on everyone. His disdain for the freedoms guaranteed to all of us under the US Constitution is clear. This is only the start if he is re-elected. Freedom of Religion should also include not having to pay for abortion through our tax dollars – which he lied about with his fake (lying) “executive order” under Obamacare.
Posted Saturday, February 11, 2012 7:29 AM By JLS
So Carol Keehan is the de facto pope of the American Catholic Church?
Posted Saturday, February 11, 2012 1:43 PM By Catherine
Obama MUST be defeated in the next election. How can we achieve this? There is something that we can do. We DO HAVE the most powerful and supernatural graces that are attached to the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Each and every Catholic who understands how all of our religious liberties are at stake, could go to their parish priest to have a Mass offered for the special intention of the next election. We could also send a Mass request to the many different Orders that we know such as the Norbertine priests, the FSSP, the Institute of Christ the King or to an individual priest that you know. Last night on Fox News Laura Ingraham interviewed Kathryn Ragsdale, who refers to herself as a progressive American. Kathryn Ragdale is an Anglican priest and she is also the president and dean of the Episcopal Divinity School. Kathryn Ragdale supports Obama’s (temporary) compromise and she supported his initial mandate. Last night Kathryn told Laura Ingraham and the audience of listeners that “abortion was a blessing”. Laura Ingraham asked, “How is abortion a blessing?” Kathryn Ragsdale replied, “It’s a blessing if you need one!” Kathryn Ragsdale is also known for saying that people who run abortion clinics are heroes and even saints. Abortion is a blessing and abortionist are doing holy work.” Now if these very evil words don’t wake up more Americans then our prayers from the Mass can be offered up to God and God will hear our prayers. Those most chilling words should let everyone know who is behind the true face of the encroaching darkness that is only being kept at bay because of the tender mercy and grace of God. How difficult can it be to place an offering and request a Mass for the special intention of a Godly, honorable and decent leader for our country, so heaven will be flooded with our most powerful and prayerful petitions!
Posted Saturday, February 11, 2012 1:57 PM By MIKE
FLASH – USCCB rejects Obama’s latest change to his mandate. See the USCCB web site – ” Bishops Renew Call to Legislative Action on Religious Liberty”.
Posted Saturday, February 11, 2012 2:38 PM By Maryanne Leonard
Catherine, is it any wonder that so many Anglicans are fed up with their church?
Posted Saturday, February 11, 2012 7:27 PM By Cody in Tucson
The Bishop of Tucson’s Monday Memo from 2/6 stated – “(Pastors, Administrators and Pastoral Administrators can use this statement in ways that you feel would be helpful.)” Went to Sat vigil Mass today, NO statement from the Bishop in the bulletin, NO statement from the Bishop read at the pulpit, NO mention of this controversy anywhere! Hmmmm! The official kickoff of the Annual Diocesan Appeal starts next weekend. Do you think this pastor stayed away from the Bishop’s statement in order to not want to torque off anyone and make them not contribute to the Appeal??? Hmmmm!
Posted Saturday, February 11, 2012 10:10 PM By Catherine
Maryanne Leonard, I thought the very same thing.
Posted Saturday, February 11, 2012 11:57 PM By Abeca Christian
Catherine I agree Obama must be defeated! We must continue to pray and fast that people will will have a contrite heart. We must act and unite to make sure we elect a President and politicians that are matching our faith based convictions. We need to take back our country! The liberals have done much harm!
Posted Sunday, February 12, 2012 8:04 AM By Juergensen
Over on her “Pro-Life” forum on the EWTN website, Judie Brown of American Life League has this to say about the American bishops and Obama (I agree with her): “The Church is at fault for what the Obama administration has done. The Bishops were silent during the elections; they supported Obama Care, at least most of them did, and now that they are reaping the results of their own efforts they are crying wolf.” I would be more specific than Ms. Brown. I would say: After telling Catholics that they can vote for abortionist Obama if they simply “intend” not to support abortion (Sec. 34, “Faithful Citizenship,” USCCB), and after 52% of “Catholics” actually voted for Obama and put him in office, the bishops’ complaints, while technically legitimate, ring hollow.
Posted Sunday, February 12, 2012 9:12 AM By Maryanne Leonard
I understand Judie Brown’s point and agree the bishops’ silence was easily misinterpreted as almost a carte blanche for Obama. The president and his administration are the perpetrators of this policy, however, not the bishops, who are finally standing up on their hind legs and barking vociferously at those who would violate our religious freedoms. To blame the Catholic bishops for Obama’s overreaching is not unlike blaming a beautiful woman for the assault of a rapist, or blaming a rich man for the theft of a robber. Obama and his henchmen own this, and anyone who voted for this man owns their own grievous error. The American people also own this: they voted for this man, buying his pretense of being their national messiah. The American education system owns this: producing graduates who would vote for a candidate promising change without specifying what that change would be. Satan owns this: inhabiting a once proud, honorable nation of people now addicted to self-indulgence, drinking, drugs, sex wantonness, sloth, greed, superficiality, incessant swearing, and irresponsibility of every sort. Friends, it is true: only God can save us now. America needs us, now more than ever, to go out and get to work in order to help people convert them to Catholicism. The time has passed for blaming bishops and damning our misguided fellow Catholics and other Americans who fell for Obama. It is also time to start ringing doorbells and helping fallen- away Catholics come back home. It is time to put aside all that has divided us; we must reunite under God and fearlessly go forth and reclaim our faltering nation and all it once stood for, starting with our own homes and our own communities. Under the banner of the Holy Roman Catholic Church, we can become again the great nation and the wonderful people God intended us to be when He blessed us so abundantly. This is our watch; we must reclaim the hearts, minds and souls of America or watch it all wither away before our eyes.
Posted Sunday, February 12, 2012 10:21 AM By Juergensen
The bishops were not merely silent. They affirmatively “taught” that Catholics could vote for abortionists such as Obama by merely having the “intent” to not support abortion when they pulled the lever for Obama (Sec. 34, “Faithful Citizenship”). This was a veritable green light to vote for Obama. The bishops now have egg on their faces, hence their “barking vociferously” at Obama. What is interesting is that, as I read the other day, Pope Benedict XVI has decided that he will not involve himself personally in this fiasco and instead will leave it up to the American bishops to resolve. Looks like the Holy Father may see this as a case of “They created this mess, let them clean it up.”
Posted Sunday, February 12, 2012 10:42 AM By JLS
Someone like Ragsdale, who is a priestess, cannot fulfill the title “priest” without making a sacrifice. Abortion is the sacrifice these occult priests and priestesses officiate over, whether or not in the immediate presence of the act.
Posted Sunday, February 12, 2012 10:50 AM By JLS
It is technically dishonest for anyone especially a bishop to tell others to do something the way they feel it should be done. Why dishonest? Because the word “feel” is being used deceptively. Thinking and feeling are two different things altogether: feeling is a physical response, whereas thinking is a mental act. You cannot feel how to do something, nor can you feel how to make a judgment … these things require thought. You have feelings that are caused by your thought or intention, but you do not plot a course of action by means of feel, rather you plot it by incorporating how you feel into your thoughts. This requires knowing what your feelings or emotions are caused by. It gets interesting even more, but the point is that for a bishop to advise action according to a means which does not exist is deception. It is not error because these people have sufficient knowledge to understand exactly what they are doing. And they know how to manipulate situations to put the bacon on the table, and sadly sometimes on the altar.
Posted Sunday, February 12, 2012 11:11 AM By Catherine
Maryanne Leonard, Your analogy, “”To blame the Catholic bishops for Obama’s overreaching is not unlike blaming a beautiful woman for the assault of a rapist, or blaming a rich man for the assault of a robber, is very deficient. I do want to commend you though for your good desire to show support for our bishops. We all support the chair and difficult office of a bishop. Our bishops are imbued with the Holy Spirit, not a disobedient spirit or a cowardly spirit. They are imbued by the Holy Spirit and this infusion of wisdom never fails UNLESS there is a lack of cooperation on the part of someone. Since we can never blame that lack of cooperation on the Holy Spirit we are commanded by Christ to faithfully speak up when we see that error and laxness has been the order of the day. I do remember the day I heard the president of the St. Joseph Foundation tell an audience of people, “Rome knows just how bad it is. They are waiting for the laity to speak of in defense of the truths of our Catholic faith.” I have written before that Cardinal Arinze personally told my friend’s husband, who live in the South. “You have a very bad bishop.” This is what Judy Brown means. Juergensen is correct about (Sec. 34, Faithful Citizenship.” It is not un-Catholic to hold our bishops accountable and hold their feet to the *all consuming fire of the Holy Spirit*. They have not done this. As the Church goes the world goes. Let us pray that our bishops who did tee up the golf ball for this assault against religious liberty, begin to stand together and be united in defending all Church teaching. Our bishops did enable Obama to have a much easier shot on the putting greens to sink our religious liberties right into the hole. This is not about blaming, it is about TRUTH. It is the TRUTH that will set captives free. “Rome knows how bad it is, they are waiting for the laity to speak up.” We (including you) are!
Posted Sunday, February 12, 2012 6:11 PM By Cody in Tucson
Since 1/20 I have heard 1 priest speak about this controversy at Mass. He was very angry that the Church would face FINES if it didn’t comply. My friend also heard this pastor at another Mass and he also said it was about FINES, FINES, FINES! I heard a news report last week that said Notre Dame’s fine would be $10 MILLION if it didn’t comply and Catholic Charities would have to pony up either $114 or $140 MILLION in fines, I don’t remember which it was. As an individual who follows conservative media, I have known for almost 2 1/2 years that if I didn’t buy an approved health policy under Obamacare that I would be FINED. I don’t recall any member of the clergy being angry that I, a pew potato, would be in trouble! So, is this thing just about the moral problems the Church would face or could it maybe be a whole lot about MONEY? Are there any other people out there in CCD land whose middle name is ‘Cynic’ ????
Posted Tuesday, February 14, 2012 4:45 PM By John F. Maguire
In reply to Jon Juergensen: (1) Your reliance on Judy Brown is misplaced. Judy Brown writes, and you quote her approvingly, “The Church is at fault for what the Obama Administration has done.” As an empirical proposition, Judy Brown’s claim is highly probably erroneous. No BUT-FOR CAUSATION is evident in the present circumstance. By But-For causation I mean the notion, which is implicit in Judy Brown’s proposition, that BUT FOR episcopal remissiveness, what the Obama Administration “has done” would not have been done. (2) Mr. Juergensen, there is another problem with Judy Brown’s blame-the-Church proposition. Her proposition fails to distinguish properly between (A) the Church, the personeity of which is indefectibly holy, and (B) the personnel of the Church, who, we know, are not indefectibly holy. The “created” soul of the Church, we know, is “the grace of Christ diffused in her members and causing them to participate in the inifinite grace which is in Him and in the very life of God. Considered in all those of her members who live by grace, and according as they live by it, one must say with Bossuet that the Church is ‘Christ diffused and communicated'” (Jacques Maritain, _On the Church of Christ: The Person of the Church and her Personnel_ (Notre Dame, IN: The University of Notre Dame, 1973). CONCLUSION: Not then the Church, properly understood, but rather her personnel are defectible. This distinction is important, Mr. Juergensen, lest the Church herself be exposed to rebuke rather than her personnel, that is, where warranted.
Posted Wednesday, February 15, 2012 12:47 AM By Kenneth M. Fisher
MacDonald, Once Archbishop Khai, who I had the joy of serving, asked me how many Americian Bishops he could trust. I told him about 10, thank God there are more than 10 today, but not that many more. God bless, yours in Their Hearts, Kenneth M. Fisher
Posted Wednesday, February 15, 2012 12:52 AM By Kenneth M. Fisher
Maguire, Now you are really showing your arrogance. When you have done even one tenth of what Judy has done for the un-born and the Church, then perhaps, and only perhaps, you can criticize her. God bless, yours in Their Hearts, Kenneth M. Fisher
Posted Wednesday, February 15, 2012 1:25 PM By John F. Maguire
Whoa, Mr. Fisher — I’ve seen Judy Brown in action and I know just what you mean. On the other hand, I think the Bishops are in the right on this matter, not Judy Brown. ~ I would be remiss, I think, if I remained content with this bare conclusion, so I motivated it by identifying two defects [(A) and (B) supra] in Judy Brown’s statement. Mr. Fisher, there is nothing in your rejoinder to cause me to revise my critique of Judy Brown’s statement. So I have to leave it at that.
Posted Wednesday, February 15, 2012 2:41 PM By JLS
Judy Brown’s statement is correct, true, factual and virtuous. The Church is indeed responsible. Maguire’s criticism twists her statement into some pathetic fantasy exercise … has Maguire been dancing to the beat of Planned Parenthood’s instruction manuals for school children?
Posted Wednesday, February 15, 2012 2:48 PM By Abeca Christian
Mr Fisher you gave Maguire excellent points to ponder, but I think his intellect side tracked mind will dismiss your wise and charitable comments!
Posted Wednesday, February 15, 2012 5:46 PM By John F. Maguire
JLS: You can make out a case — I leave aside whether it is weak or strong — that the personnel of the Church are remiss vis-a-vis the Obama Administration, but in so doing, do please take care NOT to attack the Church herself. The Church herself is holy and indefectible. To explain: The created soul of the Church is “the grace of Christ diffused in her members and causing them to participate in the infinite grace which is in Him and in the very life of God. Considered in all those members who live by grace, and according as they live by it, one must say with Bossuet that the Church is ‘CHRIST DIFFUSED AND COMMUNICATED'” [emphasis mine]. Whence Maritain’s clear differentiation between the Church as holy and indefectible, on the one hand, and the personnel of the Church as not indefectibly holy, on the other hand. The implication of this teaching is clear: If you have the facts to back you up, you can say (taking great care as to the facts) that CERTAIN PERSONNEL of the Church are remiss, but No, no one is free to say that the CHURCH is remiss. The Church is holy and indefectible. The Church is CHRIST diffused and communicated.
Posted Wednesday, February 15, 2012 6:26 PM By JLS
You’re partially correct, Maguire, in saying that the Church is Christ diffused and communicated … although these key words would take considerable defining before being inviolable. The Church includes bishops and laity who are to some extent in union with God through Christ (diffused and communicated get at this). And it being a fact that over half the Catholic voters at many bishops’ bidding elevated an arch-abortionist to become president of the USA and most powerful individual on earth, thus making abortion a tool of the most powerful man on the planet. These people including bishops are responsible for the butchering of millions of unborn babies.
Posted Wednesday, February 15, 2012 9:03 PM By John F. Maguire
JLS: (1) The Catholic Bishops never “bid” Catholics to vote for Senator Barack Obama or Senator John McCain. (2) The Catholic Bishops stuck to Catholic voting ethics on the ground that one-plus-one words to the wise suffice. (3) You have no business in the whole wide world referring to President Obama as an “arch-aborftionist” — had you said arch-abortocrat, that’s a different story. Why so? Because these two words are sharply and essentially different in meaning. The word abortocratic requires that we understand its Greek roote “-cratis” — meaning rule: An abortocrat is someone who hold that as a rule of fundamental law preborn infants are non-persons. You see the differerence — an “abortionist” is someone who performs or partakes in performing a procured direct killing of preborn intants. The class of persons known as abortocrats then is substantially larger than the class of persons known as abortionists. Let’s then keep our terminology precise.
Posted Wednesday, February 15, 2012 10:09 PM By JLS
But, Maguire, your partial correctness is buried in your massive incorrectness. When you use words such as “diffused and communicated” to define the Church, you are using words that really have little meaning outside of any substantial context. Because of the lack of context, this sort of rhetorical device can have only one result which is the same result that vague Vatican II documents produce. Yes, you can read this sort of stuff and derive correct data; however, you can also read it, using other valid definitions of words and come up with incorrect interpretations. People tend to forget that a word often has various meanings, sometimes not even related due to input into English language from several other languages, where the input words are not related. This problem with English, btw, is one good reason to continue with Latin, especially in times like ours where many seminarians have poorly developed linguistic backgrounds.
Posted Thursday, February 16, 2012 12:35 AM By Kenneth M. Fisher
Maguire, You have seen Judie Brown in action, well I have been with Judie in joint action. You don’t know what the heck you are talking about! God bless, yours in Their Hearts, Kenneth M. Fisher
Posted Thursday, February 16, 2012 1:01 PM By John F. Maguire
You needn’t take umbrage, Mr. Fisher — I favor joint action. The evolutionary biologist Martin Novak has suggested that joint action (cooperation) is one of the operative keys to human evolution. But that aside, where is it again, as between Judy Brown and the Catholic Bishops, that my critique of Brown goes astray?
Posted Thursday, February 16, 2012 1:12 PM By Catherine
“I favor joint action”…. especially with Douglas Kmiec!
Posted Thursday, February 16, 2012 1:18 PM By John F. Maguire
The identification of the Church as “Christ diffused and communicated” is not my formulation, JLS. As I already pointed out, it is the formulation of Bossuet — France’s famous Bishop Bossuet, I probably should have added. Jacques Maritain, for his part, elaborates, in Thomist terms, the profound truth expressed in Bishop Bossuit’s formulation. For a full discussion, see J. Maritain, _On the Church of Christ: The Person of the Church and Her Personnel_ (University of Notre Dame Press, 1973). The chapter in which Maritain quotes Bishop Bossuet is online. You’ll see, I’m confident, that Bishop Bossuet’s teaching that the Church is “Christ diffused and communicated” is not a “rhetorical device” but instead a permanent contribution to the Church’s ecclesiology.