The following comes from a March 28 Huffington Post article by Antonia Blumberg:
Anne Kelley, a Seattle-based attorney, was looking for a way to engage with the stations of the cross on a deeper level when she stumbled upon the idea of incorporating yoga into the practice.
“My inspiration was that if we used our whole body, heart and soul to focus on the Stations, we could better enter into [Jesus’] suffering and open ourselves to [a] deeper relationship with God,” Kelley said in an email to The Huffington Post.
Kelley recruited the help of yoga instructor Cynthia Simon and artist Eric Armusik to bring her project, called “Body in Prayer,” to fruition. Simon helped identify the positions and movements that would best capture the spirit of the stations, while Armusik artistically represented them in a series of 14 paintings that now hang in Kelley’s local Seattle parish.
The Body in Prayer series is meant to help people meditate on Jesus, said Kelley, and is not meant “to port any of the stated spiritual outputs of yoga in the transcendental or Hindu sense.” Because yoga is now so popular, said Kelley, she hopes the series will provide a recognizable and “great shorthand way of getting people to move their bodies into positions that [are] relatively safe, in a repeatable, reliable way.”
On Saturday, Holy Family Church in Los Angeles will host the Body in Prayer yoga stations of the cross for the sixth year in a row, offering participants a “multi-sensory meditation” on Jesus’ last day. The following day is Palm Sunday in the Christian tradition and the official start of Holy Week leading up to Easter.
Ahhh the corrupt Spirit of Vatican 2, as for me I will be attending Good Friday Liturgy using the 1962 Missal….
We will be soing the same as Canisius at a solemn Mass by FSSP Los Angeles at 3:30.
We will be doing the same at an FSSP Mass in Sarasota.
“There are not more than 100 people in the world who truly hate the Catholic Church, but there are millions who hate what they perceive to be the Catholic Church. ….As a matter of fact, if we Catholics believed all of the untruths and lies which were said against the Church, we probably would hate the Church a thousand times more than they do.” By Fulton Sheen
“Truth must be sought at all costs, but separate isolated truths will not do. Truth is like life; it has to be taken on its entirety or not at all. . . . We must welcome truth even if it reproaches and inconveniences us — even if it appears in the place where we thought it could not be found.” By Archbishop Fulton Sheen
Nothing can ever changes any forms of Immutable Truth! What is immutable within the Catholic Faith is to love one’s life as Jesus did. Living on His Way (the Cross He carried it was for our sins), in His Truth (the words He spoke) with His Love (lay down one;s life for one’s beloved). That is what every Baptized Catholic should follow, nothing else matters, they all fade into the Dust! “The enemy of a man is from his own household.” We are our own worst enemy by not living in His Words!
Our hearts will be with you! ♡
Our hearts will be with you! ♡
FSSP masses are heaven on earth!
Our hearts are with you ♡
No I was 3000 miles away in Jersey City, St. Anthony of Padua Church…
Canisuis stop the fear mongering, the lies and gossip. You are sinning. This is not the spirit of V2. Its the spirit of heretics and acts of schism.
Abeca.. I am exposing what the “spirit of Vatican2” has produced…I will try and be a gentleman and not throw out insults…
Thanks Canisius. But its not what it produced, you and I have seen two different things, I have also seen the good when the faithful are obedient. I think that you do not understand V2, you need to read it, whole and then call Catholic Answers to help you understand it or even EWTN…they are the good of V2….even Catholic Radio is the good of V2. I even saw that V2 has helped better with women and men issues that are faithful, it has not been closed minded and hurt women. It has helped men take accountability for their bad will, like Archbishop Burke has shown us, he too has helped be the Traditional Voice of V2, he told men to “BE MEN”. The bad will men and women from the past before V2 took the opportunity to use V2 and hurt its real mission and those men where raised in the Latin mass, why then did they abuse the true mission of V2, but since then the faithful who understand V2, understand that it meant no abuses like we see now. V2 helps return many who have left the faith and there are many who are traditional and faithful that actually are of good will and combating the people who are of bad will hurting the mission of Christ’s church.
Canisius even your usage of words “spirit of V2” tells us that you are heavily immersed in an agenda from schismatics. Who talks like that? Other than those who have an agenda, who spread untruths. it is that very same schism and heresy, gossip and slander that has helped the bad will continue today within the church. Now if you had said I am exposing the sins of those of bad will, then you have no argument there, because we are fighting this battle together because we love Christ and trust in His promises.
Abeca, please try to address the priest/yogi’s position regarding what VII calls for in the article below:
Despite the reality that exorcists warn against yoga, this priest seems to believe very differently. As evidenced by what is going on in the parish in this article, so do many others. So letter writing about that which can be considered an okay interpretation of inculturation etc will only be scoffed at and the Yoga will continue.
Actually I am heavily immersed in coffee at the moment….
It’s about impossible to make a case that anything positive in the wake of V2 would not have happened without it. And the carnage to the Faith since V2 in terms of the declines in numbers of practicing Catholics, priests and religious have been devastating. The Catholic schools have lost their Catholic identities, and the birth rates among Catholic families mirrors the general population. That’s before even taking a look at Europe, where matters are even worse. As emphasized by Pope Paul VI at the close of the council, V2 was a pastoral, rather than a canonical council, and therefore contained nothing binding on Catholics that hadn’t been defined previously. Yes, Catholic circles are more overrun with heretics than ever before, and while some might say that V2 didn’t cause this, it sure as heck did nothing to prevent it. In light of all this, it is baffling to me why anyone at this point 50 years later should go out on a limb to defend the council.
Ralph no one is saying that V2 is perfect and yes you make sound arguements, those have crossed my understanding but like it or not, its still Christ’s church. I am a child growing up in. Saint John Paul 2, later in his papacy. I only know V2. What we discuss here is the false notion that V2 has a spirit that promotes yoga. That notion is false and only adds more slander and those who have an agenda against what they believe true of V2, like to sell a false propaganda by their insinuations that are misleading, so as Catholics we have a duty to correct their gossip and misleadings.
A nuanced distinction – people can argue until the cows come home as to whether V2 itself contained a “spirit” of heterodox liberalism. But that’s not the point. The point surrounds whether V2 in its actual implementation, whether or not valid, has a “spirit” which has usurped and gone beyond the specific words of the council, and taken on a life of its own, which in common parlance and understanding has come to be known and understood as the “spirit of V2.” And that much, at a minimum, has occurred. In that sense, yes there is a “spirit” unleashed from forces emanating from V2, that allows, if not “promotes” New Age practices, which in a broad sense encompasses yoga. The progressives in the Church use V2 as their authorization for these things, and that is also indisputable. This all comes from V2, not V1. I will also say that the best spin on the intent of the architects of V2 is that only an incredibly childish naivete would be unable to know in advance what sort of forces would be unleashed by the event like V2 at the time in history that it was held. Among a myriad of other forces, the sexual revolution and marketing of birth control was launching globally. At a certain point, arguing these things is irrelevant to practicality. Love the Church, but thus far, V2 and its “spirit” have not been positive. God will judge whether the men at the council were innocent or guilty, or just plain stupid.
Why buy into the lie that there is a spirit of Vatican II that harms the Church. You know what spirit it is.
The SSPX has many traditional Mass locations around the world, and is a major force influencing and providing sacraments for those who profess to be traditionalist-minded Catholics. We want to emphasize that the SSPX does many good things; it has been an avenue by which many have been introduced, and come back, to the traditional Catholic Faith. However, in various areas the SSPX’s positions are unfortunately heretical and contrary to the Catholic Faith. First, the SSPX holds and teaches that souls can be saved in non-Catholic religions, which is heretical.
Fr. Schmidberger, Time Bombs of the Second Vatican Council, Angelus Press [SSPX], p. 10: “Ladies and gentlemen, it is clear that the followers of other religions can be saved under certain conditions, that is to say, if they are in invincible error.”
Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, Against the Heresies, Angelus Press [SSPX], p. 216: “Evidently, certain distinctions must be made. Souls can be saved in a religion other than the Catholic religion (Protestantism, Islam, Buddhism, etc.), but not by this religion.”
Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, Declaration of August, 1976:
“All those enter into schism who cooperate in this realization of this upheaval and adhere to this new Conciliar Church, as His excellency Bishop Benelli designated it in the letter he addressed to me in the Holy Father’s name last June 25th.” (Quoted in Sacerdotium)
Fr. Franz Schmidberger, former Superior General of the Society of St. Pius X:
“We have never wished to belong to this system which calls itself the Conciliar Church, and identifies itself with the Novus Ordo Missae… The faithful indeed have a strict right to know that priests who serve them are not in communion with a counterfeit church.” (Quoted in Sacerdotium)
Thank you for affirming the completely “Catholic” statements of Archbishop Lefebvre, Abeca.
The Catholic Church teaches that those who are invincibly ignorant can attain salvation despite being in a different religion – but NOT BECAUSE OF THAT RELIGION … where did you collect your data? Visiting Sedevecantist sites again? Or did you visit the Feenyite site again? Feenyites are the ones who reject anything besides water baptism, Abeca.
Check it out:
This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church: Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience—those too may achieve eternal salvation. (CCC 847)
But your confused attempt to distract cannot in any way distract from the reality that VII is given the leeway necessary to those who wish to embrace syncretism – that is yoga in Church for one example.
The fact that you would post what you did above is evidence of an unstable catechesis -another “fruit” of VII. That is why I wish you’d wake up, because you could be a real force for good if you knew the Faith, not just how to defend whatever you’ve been told to – like it or not.
Keep dreaming Ann M
I’m not affirming just exposing. . We know his errors just like yours.
Canisius, you are lying. Go to Confession – any good Priest of the Latin Rite will tell you that you have sinned. Stop the lies and scandal.
Yes, there are a few (5 or 6) sentences in the 16 V II Docs – that need clarification – This is truth.
However, you stand only with heretics that V II was bad, or evil, or corrupt, and everyone should be sick of your antics by now.
If you have a reasonable priest for Confession, he will tell you to stop your lies and Scandal, and make reparation for your Scandal – by posting corrections in all the web sites that you have promoted your heresy on.
Ed…if you believe that the end results of Vatican 2 has been good for the Church… tell me in detail what they have been…
Canisius even if and when details are shown to you or even to the regulars here that hate V2, you still refuse to see or hear…can’t continue sharing these pearls when people do not want to see. First we need to correct the theories that schismatics and heretics embrace, before they can have personal conversion but it has to take their free will to want the truth. It takes humility.
You blame V2 for the sins of men of bad will its like blaming alcohol for the men who abuse it. Jesus turned water into wine, wine was used for good, so V2 has a good mission to help us deal with these modern days and to evangelize, it did not call to make abusive changes at all, but look just like alcohol, humans abused it for their own bad will. God have mercy! A gun can be used to protect and hunt but look evil men use it to kill, just like V2 bad willed men abused its real purpose. Nothing new under the sun, as we study the history of the church, this has been going on with other times too, during biblical times too. God have mercy!
Abeca (4/10/15 11:48, 11:50), I don’t see how a discussion of the SSPX relates to a conversation about the effects of V2. The SSPX didn’t change the general effects of V2, in fact, the SSPX was a response to V2 and the mainstream ‘Catholic’ culture that followed it. V2 was good, bad or indifferent regardless of the SSPX. Anonymous (4/10/15 10:18), if you really think that a whole panoply of heterodoxy doesn’t masquerade under the ‘spirit of V2’ banner, there’s not much to say to you, but good luck.
Abeca what you and the rest of the v2 crowd refuse to admit, is that the Council is and was a giant failure…and pointing this out does not mean I am sinning or guilty of gossip. You have become a sanctimonious finger waver who denies the results of what the Church has become and how the v2 crowd is doing everything in its power to detonate every last Tradition in the Church and replace it with the cause of social justice, bet on it…That which is ridiculous deserves ridicule
Well Canisius that is your opinion which is not based on facts but only on an agenda from those who are in schism. I don’t think you understand how you come across. Its like saying that Jesus was a giant failure just because He went ahead and got himself crucified. You live in that mentality, neglecting the history of the church and all its ups and downs, you would like everyone to believe your theory that is not based on Jesus and His promises to His church faithful.
Obedience is a gift and not all can see what that means. Pie Jesu….Faithful Jesus showed us the way but many have their own view on what that is.
Its a disgrace on how you come up with those theories but they are only based on what you follow, your prejudges because at the end of the day, if you followed Jesus, you would not be saying what you just said because it would be unjust to do so.
Abeca I will give you the chance right now and tell me how wonderful v2 has been for the Church..give me the exact details how it has been a net positive for the Church…
That’s OK such is life. Canisius nothing personal against you, still appreciate your dialogue when done in charity. Thanks for your opinions but I would have to disagree, you keep forgetting sin and mankind, those too explain a lot if you choose to understand it better, rather than keep your opinions on check on something you believe it to be. I expect your like would respond rather uncharitably….same answer for them….not getting into a heated debate again on this…now if you like I can expose more of the errors from the SSPX like I have before….but I trust that you and the others would ignore it because that is what people from cult like minds behave. After this website, I have a different point of view on what Traditional folks are like, I consider myself Traditional but not like how those in schism witness here.
“…now if you like I can expose more of the errors from the SSPX like I have before….but I trust that you and the others would ignore it because that is what people from cult like minds behave.”
Continuing to threaten mass distraction will not dismiss the reality of Catholic clerics, those in “full communion”, allowing and even encouraging the admission of yoga into the Catholic Church, Abeca. Even with the warnings from exorcists.
That said, please, be traditional and witness with tradition. Not with blindness and/or ignoring serious problems with critical documents within the Church.
Canisius, you are a heretic. Your first post on this thread stated that VII was(is) “corrupt”.
Go to Confession and ask any Priest if you have not sinned and publically need to correct your public sin.
The most you can truthfully state without the mortal sin of lying and scandal – is that there are 5 or 6 sentences out of the 16 Documents of V II that need clarification.
No the entire council needs to be revisited, redone or suppressed… because if you believe the Church is fundamentally stronger because of it your are fool…
PETE: You are perhaps not sinning, but seemingly willfully blind if you do not understand that the at most 5-6 points requiring clarification within V2 documents are in need of clarification precisely because they leave the door open to all manner of misinterpretation. The very same misinterpretation that is explains precisely how such malarkey as yoga-Stations of the Cross has come to be.
And Abeca it is not only those you falsely consider to be in schism that see the problems within V2 documents. So you’re “opinion” to misuse terms and castigate others who are clearly able to see and root cause the – oh, my gosh, how did this terrible yoga get inside the Catholic Church – is not helpful. It is rather disingenuous as you repeatedly cry foul when it comes to supposed V2 detractors, but then close your eyes when those making use of the lack of clarity in V2 proceed to introduce that which you admonish as dangerous – according to exorcists.
Canisius dear brother, you are not to call the faithful defending the truth, quoting from the truth on the CCC a fool…..you can have an opinion of something being foolish but be careful with your own words: just wanted to charitably warn you.
Douay-Rheims Bible Matthew 5:22
But I say to you, that whosoever is angry with his brother, shall be in danger of the judgment. And whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council. And whosoever shall say, Thou Fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Abeca I have done far worse than post words on a website that offend the gentle disposition of certain Catholics… far worse…please stop waving your finger at me….
Canisius not waving fingers I can say the same about you but will not. I respect you Canisius I would hate us to not get along, you always seemed to be a good gentleman. Well I will still think that of thee, I can see we disagree. take good care and may Jesus bless you and heal you, be with you and guide you. bye now
Ann Malley, there is no approval in any Document from V II, that allows YOGA Stations of the Cross.
All liturgy must be approved by a Diocese Bishop and also the Vatican.
And Yoga Stations have not been approved by the Vatican.
You are either a liar, or a heretic. Take your pic.
DOTTIE, you are either an enabler or lying to yourself if you cannot see the open gateways of VII documents with regard to what is happening inside the Church today. Take your pick. And try, for a change, to take some mature responsibility for the fallout happening all around you.
Continuing to play faithful blind woman is no proof of Faith, rather it is proof of being too afraid or cowed to face that which needs amendment and clarification. (But hey, maybe you’re the heretic. You surely don’t seem inclined to root cause serious problems. And that, DOTTIE, is a problem in any organization. I wonder if you’d have locked stepped in Germany a couple of generations back.)
Thank goodness there wasn’t such reticence to correct REAL PROBLEMS when the CCC 1st edition was found to be LACKING AND POTENTIALLY MISLEADING and was subsequently replaced with the CCC 2nd edition. That’s called maturity, DOTTIE, and accountability. No appeasement for those who threaten schism for want of doing new, creative, outreach to see where the spirit may take them.
So pick away, DOTTIE. Your words are just that words – with no understanding. Try reading Bishop Athanasius Schneider about VII. Or better still, read up on +Kasper who is loving the compromise formulas. Or maybe you can just write them a staunch letter and tell them to take their pic while you make yourself “feel” better. Good grief.
I’ll second that! Amen, Canisius!
Canisius, the position you are taking opens you up to evil spirits just as much or more than doing yoga.
Anon.. I will take my chances… I am not fooled by corrupt clerics who preach on the “spirit of Vatican 2” while the Church continues to self destruct
Thanks Anonymous and PETE…you are both correct. Lets pray for Canisius today. He is a good soul and is mislead because of those theories that he has embraced.
Canisius, as proof of your sinfulness, and doing the work of Satan, you can see how you personally distract from the article – of the ABUSE and MOCKING of JESUS – which needs to be corrected by the Diocese Bishop.
April 8, 2015 at 2:04 pm
Showing JESUS doing YOGA exercises during His Scourging and Crucifixtion – MOCKS the Lord.
It is a disgrace.
Make up your mind, Beth. You accuse another of sinfulness for merely pointing out that certain aspects of VII could be and ARE used to justify the “ABUSE and MOCKING of JESUS.” But if the VII documents are the source, then isn’t it sinful to keep denying reality and then asking how and why. VII is why, Beth. And lack of clarity.
You state that such abuse should be corrected by the Bishop. But Beth, what YOU consider abuse, by way of V2 documents can and is considered inculturation by others – others who are precisely priests and bishops, Beth.
Beth you really need to get out more….
Canisius no, you are exposing your unfaithfulness to the truth. We need the truth not man made theories.
Abeca as someone who nearly died defending fellow Christians and the Truth, please don’t ever make a comment like that again… V2 again needs to be revisited, redone, or suppressed….why are you so blind to the poison it produced in the Church.. why?
Canisius, the Church has always been about Social Justice. It is the Church that built hospitals, schools, taught English as a second language and helped people become citizens. It is the Church that ran soup-kitchens, provided clothes for the poor, and fed the hungry. Because they still do it, after VII, does not make it evil. I often wonder what people are about when they condemn VII. The Council did not change dogma. What it did was clarify how the Church could become more pastoral in a world that was rejecting it. Did a new worship service come about because of it, or in spite of it? Yes. Did the meaning of the liturgy change? No. Is Christ still present in the bread and wine? Yes. When you think about it, very little changed of any theological significance. I someone thinks that Mass in a language other than Latin is a bad thing, then they will think VII was a bad thing. If someone dislikes the “informality” of the liturgy, they will think VII is a bad thing. No one on this site, including you, has been specific about what you think is so horrible. Perhaps we should recognize that VII was in the 1960s and just get over it. My children were born in the early 1960s, and they haven’t the slightest idea what VII was all about, and they don’t need to. What we have today is the church as it has been for the last 50 years, and yet millions of people go to Mass each weekend. Can’t be all bad!
Bob One, the problem comes in, at least to me, when the Church stuffs the doctrine (teaching the hard truths and what they mean) under a barrel, and attempts to replace that with merely corporal works.
Works that are “supposed” to be the resulting fruit of living the doctrines and truths that now are cast as somehow unnecessary. Like thanking Jesus for His stellar example, but telling Him that we can take it from here now because folks just find Him too restrictive and He’s impeding the Church’s really important work by all of that bloody cross nonsense. Not appealing. Kind of a turn off.
That’s the problem. Because all the works in the world without the truth and/or the reality of God and ultimate Charity – that is the fullness of God – are a complete and utter waste. Even though “we” might “feel” really good about what “we” accomplished.
Bob One (4/10/15, 10:35): “because the Church still (helps the poor, etc.) after VII, does not make it evil.” No, but the Church has opened itself up to evil unnecessarily by overemphasizing pastoral concerns and largely ignoring dogmas of sin and Hell, especially sexual sin. “Did the meaning of the liturgy change? No.” That’s a false statement. The OF liturgy’s principal author was a Freemason named Abp. Bugnini, later exiled to Iran by Paul VI, who modeled the liturgy into a man-centered design which the virtual entirety of the Catholic world started calling a “meal” instead of a representation of the Sacrifice of Calvary. The changes were specifically intended to re-shape the practice and understanding of the Faith, and have largely succeeded in doing so. “If someone thinks that Mass in a language other than Latin is a bad thing…” This simple-minded statement ignores that Traditionalists don’t waste their time calling Mass in the vernacular a “Bad thing,” but rather have a much deeper and nuanced understanding of how the vernacular undermines Church unity, and the sense of God’s mystery and beauty, not to mention that the specific words were oversimplified in their translations to an extent bordering on theological error. “What we have today” is a church where only a small fraction of the percentage of Catholics attend Mass weekly compared to pre-V2.
You don’t go to a Catholic Church and it shows. Just please stop making stuff up.
Canasius, who is “rest of the v2 crowd” ?
You seem to treat them in a very derogatory manner. Why are you so negative towards other Catholics?
I agree– this is another silly, corrupt, post-Vatican II novelty and liturgical ABUSE! Of course– not what the Council Fathers actually envisioned, at the Council– but what happened afterwards— corruptions galore!! As for the practice of yoga– it is good for one’s health, as are many disciplines in physical education. And being in good health, is a big help, for anything! Including being able to go to church and do many things well. Good posture, a relaxed and graceful body, being able to concentrate and focus well, and feeling overall healthy, is a big help for one’s life! But this is a very private and personal pursuit! God is everywhere– so, one can find God “among the pots and pans,” in the kitchen, in ordinary life (as some saints have said), or else in music, art, poetry, literature, athletics, beholding the beauties of Nature, helping needy people or children, or in many other different ways– outside of church! But one must still go to church, and practice correctly, our Catholic Faith!
Vatican 2 is approved by Holy Mother Church. Trust Her do not trust yourself where the devil lingers. Yoga in the Church has nothing to do with Vatican 2
It’s a liturgical abuse…get real.
Showing JESUS doing YOGA exercises during His Scourging and Crucifixtion – MOCKS the Lord.
It is a disgrace.
Beth I agree, its a disgrace and our Pope and even the exorcist agree with your comments!
You’ve got to be kidding, right?
Canisius, you are a heretic. Both Forms of the Mass are Holy when done in accord with:
1) Ordinary Form of the Mass (aka OF, Novus Ordo) – GIRM (General Instruction of the Roman Missal 2011)
2) Extraordinary Form of the Mass (aka EF, Traditional, Latin) – 1962 Missal.
Regarding BOTH Forms of the Mass:
” 22.3 Therefore no other person, even if he be a priest, may add, remove, or change anything in the liturgy on his own authority”. – V II Doc- “Sacrosanctum Concilium”.
And if any Diocese Bishop anywhere in the world wishes to make a change for a necessary adaptation due to culture, he must receive approval by the Apostolic See. #40.1.
If people are too lazy to report abuses to the Diocese Bishop or Vatican, it is their own fault. Not the fault of V II.
Canisius, you are a heretic.
Both FORMs of the Mass are Holy when done in accord with:
ORDINARY FORM (aka OF, Novus Ordo) – GIRM (General Instruction of the Roman Missal 2011).
EXTRAORDINARY FORM (aka EF, Traditional, Latin) – 1962 MISSAL
If people are too LAZY to report ABUSES to the Diocese Bishop or Vatican, then that is there fault,
not the fault of V II.
V II Doc – “Sacmorsanctum Consilium” –
“22.3 Therefore no other person, even if he be a priest, may add, remove, or change anything in the liturgy on his own authority.”
and “40.1” states that in the rare circumstance due to a needed radical adaptation – the VATICAN must approve any Change a Bishop deems appropriate.
When did I say the Ordinary Form is invalid
Canisius you never said it but you sure insinuated with your comments against it, even on threads that state churches worth driving to. Like i said before you are free to prefer the EF but to bash the OF mass is a sin in itself. You need to show charity to souls who prefer the OF mass done in accordance with the GIRM. There are many holy OF parishes and to discount it only speaks volumes about the person who discounts it.
I appreciate your strong convictions in the Lord and respect many of your defense on common decency but its not decent to make comments that promote hatred for the OF mass nor to spread theories against Christ’s church. Always state the truth in the CCC, to discredit anyone who wants to promote their own agenda’s or state holy scripture or even teachings from the saints. They warned against schism and heresies too. We need to be obedient and know our faith so when we are faced with these things within the church due to human sins, then the truth will protect us.
I never bashed the OF mass, however I will bash those in the hierarchy who in the name of Vatican 2 tore apart beautiful parishes, demolished the high altars, white washed frescoes, removed statues and turn the parishes in Quaker meeting halls ..I don’t need your prayers Abeca, you need to wake up… the Church has inside of it evil men (Bishops, Cardinals etc) who have lost the Faith and are doing all in their power to turn the Church into a social justice outreach organization..
Canisius OK you don’t need my prayers……how many souls that went to hell said that due to their pride. Don’t let bad will pride take over you. It will only make you more vulnerable. Jesus died on the cross and shed His blood for me, that woke me up and I lean on His promises….not on your theories, Canisius you and I do not like the abuses and that is what it means to be faithful, we fight for the good fight, we are church militants, that is what I am….so you do not need to explain those things to me, but I am speaking about your other theories that come off as heretical and schismatic. You are the one walking in spiritual danger and I say this out of charity. God love you! You say you don’t need my prayers….fine, my prayers will go to where they are welcomed, they will not go in vein. God bless you dear brother….I leave you in God’s hands.
seems the rich catholic tradition already had a ‘body-in-prayer’ approach through such things as processions, walking the stations with many kneelings and standings, or just kneeling and standing repeatedly in the pews. the penitente tradition in some countries has stations-goers walk on their knees.
Well, isn’t that special. Another wonderful idea for the Modernist wing of the Roman Catholic Church.
The Stations of the Cross by this group are NOT Catholic.
Their pictured stations have never been approved by the Vatican, nor have their accompanying Hindu movements.
They are a SACRILEGE against God.
The pictures make a mockery of the purpose of the LIFE of JESUS CHRIST – HIS suffering and death on the Cross for our Sins.
Jesus did not do YOGA while suffering and dying. Their pictures are a lie.
I totally agree!
Thank you ANN, you spoke the truth. People need to stay away from this group but as you can see sinners will and continue to sin, no matter whether they are Catholic or not. Just like Eve was tempted to disobey , how can we expect baptized souls to not be tempted, even those who are baptized have free will and can and do have free will to disobey, often times out of ignorance or just plain bad will. This life offers many temptations and we pray that people keep their eye’s fixed on Jesus, His word and the CCC to avoid the temptation to think that this is OK. One has to reflect and wonder what types of sins are these people harboring that they would promote such things, its much deeper sins that some of us do not understand, that is why we need to educate others with the truth, to combat these modern day evils!
Abeca, your “people continue to sin” argument used to explain Yoga in the Catholic Church doesn’t address the reality of the following:
The confusion goes back to VII and what is perceived to now be allowed because of loose, “pastoral” language that can be and is being interpreted to bring syncretism to a Church near you.
So while you state that we need to “educate” others, many are attempting to educate you that VII is not quite what you believe it to be. Most assuredly the priest-yogi who loves Yoga is one who doesn’t agree with you.
No Ann Malley. Only schismatics and heretics are always trying to educate others away from Christ’s church. Even those from within. Even those who grew up Latin, who are the very ones who took off and promoted their own abuses using V2. I did my research and it was through kneeling and asking our Lord for His truths. It was then that i know that your agenda here is not blessed by God. His love and truth protect me. Been humbled through out the years to get to His truths and trust more in His truths. Thanks for your time. Bye now.
Yoga (/ˈjoʊɡə/; Sanskrit: योग, Listen) is a physical, mental, and spiritual practice or discipline. There are a variety of schools, practices and goals in Hinduism, Buddhism (including Vajrayana and Tibetan Buddhism]) and Jainism.
The best-known are Hatha yoga and Raja yoga.
One should NOT be practicing any religion that does not honor the TRINITY – Father, Son, Holy Spirit as GOD.
Contact Abp Gomez so he may correct the Pastor.
The pastor of the Parish obviously allowed this Yoga to take place.
The Stations of the Cross are about JESUS, not about ourselves and our physical fitness, or about the Hindu or Buddhist faith.
Concentrating on HIS Suffering and Repentance for our sins that put Him on the cross is what must take place.
Btw – the New Age stuff for the Catholic Faith is also being pushed by the heretical LCWR.
Thanks PETE for your faithfulness to warn the lay faithful. I know that this information has converted even priests who did not know, some are now finally taking notice that people want faithfulness, they want the truth. No more dummy downing Catholicism, we want the truth. I wonder if anyone from the SSPX, who often come here to criticize often actually wrote a letter in charity exposing these abuses? I bet many do not but they sure love throwing stones…..
Abeca, you seem to misunderstand that those practicing this yoga within the Church are doing so precisely because they do not interpret it as abuse. So while you may chasten others on what you feel they have implied or what you think without solid grounding in what documents actually allow, you are doing little but allowing a problem to continue by way of ignoring its source.
Your idea of throwing stones equates to speaking the truth in charity in order to fix problems. Nobody can work credibly toward the good with such a mindset for it precludes diagnosis.
That said, you imply that the Pope is against this yoga practice within the Church. How do you know this? Could you please site a source?
You also state, “…I know that this information has converted even priests who did not know, some are now finally taking notice that people want faithfulness, they want the truth. No more dummy downing Catholicism, we want the truth. ”
Whether the people want faithfulness or not, Abeca, the priests should be preaching/teaching the fullness of Faith and telling the truth. That is their job. Not to give the people what they want and only speak up about the Faith inside the Catholic Church when the people indicate it is okay now and what they want to hear. That is why you have the above abuses.
Ann Malley yes faithful priests are teaching the faith. Your comments here neglect that. You judge the whole church based on these scandals. I dont want to go in circles with you. You are outside the church you simply miss out on that understanding.
Abeca, you miss out on the reality that I have never once stated that the Church is bereft of souls of good will and, in fact, good priests. You have a bias in your mind wherein you seem to believe that because I attend SSPX chapels that I cannot understand and/or comprehend the goodwill and or good within the Church.
That is your blindness, Abeca, and you projecting what you fear onto someone – that is me. You need to stop judging others while accusing them erroneously of judging, something I’m not doing and have no desire to do.
But I would ask you to provide the reference where you drew the statement that the Pope is against Yoga in the Church.
You, Abeca, are supplying your own narrative for the intentions, agendas and education of others while stubbornly refusing to look at your own errors in judgment. That said, you are outside the Church when you deign to usurp the authority of Rome in declaring schismatic, heretical, etc those whom you cannot buffalo and/or coerce with your self proclaimed humility.
Again, state where Pope Francis has said what you indicated he said and/or is against. Facts would be helpful, Abeca, not spin or distraction.
The picture in this article is a SACRILEGE, and makes a mockery of the suffering and death of JESUS.
It equates and reduces HIS suffering to exercise.
If anyone wants the Plenary INDULGENCE attached to saying the ‘Stations of the Cross’, one must adhere to the requirements in the “MANUAL of INDULGENCES” approved by the Apostolic Penitentiary of 1999 (third printing July 2013).
In the USA this manual is published by the USCCB.
See page 55 & 56 “In Memory of the Passion and Death of the Lord” for the specific details.
Archbishop J Peter Sartain must be contacted for the Seattle Diocese.
Archbishop Jose Gomez must be contacted for the Los Angeles Diocese to stop these abuses of our Faith.
What is wrong with the Pastor in Holy Family Church ?
Is he Catholic?
Excellent comments MIKE. I completely agree.
Thank you Mike! That picture is nothing less than sacrilegious and obscene.
My goodness..can you imagine what would happen if they had done that with an illustration of Muhammad?
I sent the pastors of that parish an email last week explaining why they should cancel it, but I did not hear back, referring to the Pope Benedict’s document, “Christ the Water Bearer of Life”.
The Huffington Post shows all the disgraceful pictures used by Anne Kelley’s version of ‘Body in Prayer’ aka ‘Yoga Stations of the Cross’.
This was NOT APPROVED by the Vatican – “Congregation for Divine Worship, and the Discipline of the Sacraments”, as required.
Any Bishop who approves this within his own Diocese, assists in Scandal and Sacrilege.
Thanks for reminding everyone TED B. that –
Kelle’s yoga, and the artwork she commissioned – – – – –
is NOT APPROVED
by the Vatican – “Congregation for Divine Worship, and the Discipline of the Sacraments”, as required.
Thank you Ted and PAUL, now tell it to those who gossip by saying its a V2 thing. Even Easter season doesnt prevent them from speaking slander against Christ’s church. Hear that Warren and others. Ted and Paul posts are charitable.
The SINs of INDIVIDUALS must never be attributed to Vatican II or any other Council.
Some posters on this site, falsely blame everything on V II, when in fact they are complaining about the sins of individuals, and sins of some Bishops who do not do their jobs.
It is wrong to falsely accuse.
“A church worth driving to”?
“Body in Prayer”: Influenced by JP2’s “Theology of the Body”?]
Those who hate the Faith will say or do anything. They hate God. They hate their neighbors. They love sin and Satan.
Gosh..you know..that’s getting real paganism if you ask me! What next..tantric worship?
If the Diocese Bishops do not start paying attention to what is happening in their own Diocese – anything goes.
They are responsibility for the Souls of all Catholics within their own Diocese.
Exactly TED B. I agree. They should do what the lay faithful did in Carlsbad, CA…..when Yoga was going to be used at a Catholic school, the parents joined up and complained and stopped it from what I heard.
Catholic Exorcist Warns Against Yoga: ‘You’re Opening Yourself To Possession’
I don’t know anything about this link website but they do give facts that church exorcist warns against Yoga!
Unfortunately, not all ‘parents’ are opposed to the idea of yoga…..and not all priests either despite what Catholic exorcists advise. It would appear that this parish welcomes the practice despite it’s dangers and not being Catholic.
That is true Ann Malley it is a tragedy, parents even promote it because of their ignorance and lack of. This parish does infuriate me very much but then again, its not all in that parish that adhere to this abuse, it is the sin and ignorance of many. I remember when even in biblical times, Corinth was having some abuses and St. Paul had to write letters to correct the errors etc…..well in this case, Yoga is being seen as OK but more and more people are educating the lay faithful and even non-Catholic Christians are now understanding why it is not OK to promote Yoga.
So good that you and others are speaking up, let the word out. Thanks for your comments Take care
Wait a minute. You say these “stations” now hang in Kelley’s Seattle parish? And that was just dandy with the pastor? My heart is breaking at Jesus’ being mocked by those who are supposed to know otherwise. I find this absolutely disgusting.
Perhaps a group of the faithful could attend, but participate by praying the Prayer to St Michael at each station.
No, never give support or credence by attending fake or unapproved (by the Church) services.
Your attendance will be used as a show of support.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Perhaps if one finds themselves inadvertantly at such an event they could recite the prayer as they leave!
For you own Stations of the Cross –
Watch the dvd – “PASSION of the CHRIST”.
And every time someone spits on JESUS, or hits Him, or Scourges Him, or drives a nail into Him – say –
“JESUS I am sorry for MY sins that did this to you”.
And when Mary is suffering tell her “I am so sorry for MY sins that did this to your Son.
It must be clarified here that this is Holy Family Church in SOUTH PASADENA , not Los Angeles . Do not confuse with a number of other parishes in the greater Los Angeles area with the same name.
Msgr. Clement J. Connolly
Holy Family Church
1527 Fremont Ave, South Pasadena, CA 91030
Contact Abp Gomez:
Most Rev. José H. Gomez
Office of the Archbishop of Los Angeles
3424 Wilshire Boulevard, 5th Floor
Los Angeles, CA 90010-2241
Telephone: (213) 637-7534
Fax: (213) 637-6510
Seattle – Archbishop Sartain will respond to mail sent to:
710 9th Avenue, Seattle, WA 98104
Most Reverend José H. GOMEZ
Office of the Archbishop of Los Angeles
3424 Wilshire Boulevard, 5th Floor
Los Angeles, CA 90010-2241
Telephone: (213) 637-7534
Fax: (213) 637-6510
Seattle Archbishop J. Peter SARTAIN will respond to mail sent to:
710 9th Avenue, Seattle, WA 98104
With copies to:
Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò
Apostolic Nunciature United States of America
Address: 3339 Massachusetts Ave. NW, Washington, DC 20008, USA
Phone: +1 (202) 333-7121
And save contract info for future use as needed.
One can always check the Diocese web site.
This sounds like another silly post-Vatican II abuse– like “liturgical dance” or “clown Masses!” Ridiculous, and an abuse!! It would be quite different, if this was a part of Church-accepted Indian cultural traditions, of Catholics in India! Mother Teresa adapted the habits of her nuns of India, to reflect the culture where they were serving! In many different cultures, worldwide, the Catholic Church has always permitted Catholic converts, to keep some of their own meaningful cultural traditions. For example– Chinese Catholics celebrate their Lunar New Year, with a Mass in our Church, and various tribes of Native American Indian Catholics, do special dances to honor Our Lady of Guadalupe, on her Feast Day! But this particular, highly personalized artistic rendition and enactment of the Stations of the Cross, done formally and PUBLICLY– in a Catholic church?? Is this an Indian tradition, of Indian Catholics? No, of course not! It is a silly, post-1960’s Vatican II novelty— a liturgical ABUSE!! The local bishop should remove it!
Everyone is free, to do as they wish, in private devotions, at home. But public worship of God, authorized by the Church, is very different— it is NOT a private, personalized, highly stylized, individual religious practice!!
No Priest should ever approve anything that has not been approved by the Vatican, and also his Bishop to take place as any form of worship on Catholic Church or Catholic School property.
This Anonymous is correct. It happens all the time though even looking back from reading about the saints, in the infant years of the church, priests still did things that caused scandal too….so the church militant need to be on guard and speak up, after that, they are in God’s hands and God is just Even in the SSPX situations have arise not the same like this but other situations that I have posted before yet they are not publicized as much because their flock are trained well to keep it a secret, their reason is to not cause scandal…but instead they keep it secret. It was some of their members who exposed some of their abuses as well. .. God bless them for speaking up too!
“…because their flock are trained well to keep it a secret, their reason is to not cause scandal…but instead they keep it secret.”
Abeca, stop. What you attribute to being “trained” is called the ability to keep issues in perspective. All believing Catholics should be opposed to the syncretism exposed in this type of activity.
Go take care of your issues within the SSPX . Encourage them to return to Rome…but your opinions here do not matter until you return to Rome. You are not here for the better of the church but you are here to cause more confusion and bickering. Your agenda is tiresome. You fight the lay faithful because you have hatred and bitterness towards the church, so I don’t take personal your attacks but you are spiritually angry, because you hate yourself for not having the gift of obedience and humility enough to remain faithful and in full communion. Its spiritual envy. I would advice you to go to confession but going to an SSPX for confession is not valid. So you will remain in bad will….it will take a miracle and we can only lean on Jesus for that. You take your own advice and Stop harassing the lay faithful here who fight the good fight, your agenda has been exposed and we will not follow because our faithfulness if with Christ, Jesus Christ is my Lord and savior, not Ann Malley’s theory’s!
Not my theory, Abeca, but reality even if it makes you feel better to blame others. As to returning to Rome, perhaps you should look to returning to Rome yourself when you take the position to speak on behalf of Rome regarding the SSPX whom you know nothing about if your posts are all you have to bring to the table.
Regarding confession, Abeca, I would advice you before going to thoroughly examine your conscience as pertains to your authority and duty of state. You’re constantly overstepping yourself and then blaming others and/or saying you defend Rome when you speak erroneously on Rome’s behalf.
That helps nobody, Abeca. And certainly doesn’t provide accurate discussion and/or exchange of legitimate information. As for harassment, you are the guilty party here. You may benefit from meditation on that.
A few years ago a large group of California Catholics attended a conference given by the St. Joseph Foundation. The faithful were encouraged and told to speak up against the terrible problems that were taking place. We were told back then “Rome knows how bad it it…they are waiting for the laity to speak up! ” Well, someone finally did! God bless CCD!
Please pay attention to how Abeca Christian recently tried to use the ol subtle silencing technique to send a message to CCD. “Just tired of it” That was a cheap shot! AND look who agreed and defended Abeca for doing that. It was YFC the current radical homosexual activist poster on CCD. Coincidence? This is very troubling because CCD is unique in exposing the problems that the Church is facing. Anyone who gets it or who truly cares, would NEVER try to silence CCD. Never underestimate the duplicitous actions of the lavender mafia.
CCD informs our good priests and the faithful of many things that they need to be aware of. The heroic commitment of CCD is only threatening to those who have something to hide. Otherwise they would consistently value CCD. The years of rotten stench have come from within. Be careful of anyone, (no matter how faithful their posts may appear) who tries in any form to silence this forum. That my fellow faithful Catholics is a very telltale sign.
There are those who are working to silence blogs and bloggers and this has nothing to do with preserving the Deposit of Faith. Thank you CCD for keeping Catholics informed!
No, actually Ann Malley, Abeca is correct. As Abeca correctly points out, by the authority of Rome, SSPX confessions and marriages are invalid, not by her authority. By Rome’s authority. But then SSPX has a problem recognizing Rome’s authority in just about everything, including ordinations undertaken illicitly.
What if you believed in Jesus?
What if you believed that God is REALLY in charge?
What if you believed that all the baptized are members of Jesus Christ?
What if you stopped fearing which the all-knowing Son of God says is useless?
What if you REALLY trusted in Mary and in Her Son?
What if you REALLY believed in God and His plan of Salvation and Mercy for mankind?
The evidance is truly here that Catherine is delusional. Go to confession Catherine and quit slandering me. Your actions here against me are evil and not Christian. You and Ann Malley do exactly what you accuse others. You are only here to personally attack those fighting the good fight. Shame on you. These sort of people are ALSO enemies of Christ’s church. Its not just the bad willed priest and laymen but also people like Catherine and Ann Malley, Steve etc. They commit culnemity, slander and they disrespect the faithful who fight the good fight, faithful to the magesterium. Her opinions are non other than distractions that only produce bickering and personal attacks on good decent faithful of the church.
Ann Malley you state not your theory but reality. Well lets look at the problamitic reality that the SSPX produced when it broke away. And you use words like “even if it makes you Feel better to blame others” this is not based on feelings nor describes my true feelings either but instead this thread clearly display that some here do not stand it when they are admonished for making false notions against V2 all while neglecting the facts that help save souls.
God bless you, Abeca, and be well. Perhaps you should stick to the subject and look to exposing the syncretism of yoga practice within the Catholic Church. Root cause the problem. Write to the Pope.
Ask him why and how this could be. Perhaps then you may believe why.
I am well thank you, I have Jesus and I place His blood over this conversation to protect me from the spiritual attacks that come from schism and heresy.
Christ Be With Me
Christ with me, Christ before me, Christ behind me,
Christ in me, Christ beneath me, Christ above me,
Christ on my right, Christ on my left,
Christ where I lie, Christ where I sit, Christ where I arise,
Christ in the heart of everyone who thinks of me,
Christ in the mouth of every one who speaks to me,
Christ in every eye that sees me,
Christ in every ear that hears me.
Salvation is of the Lord.
Salvation is of the Christ.
May your salvation, Lord, be ever with us.
Let us pray.
God of heaven,
God of earth,
God of Angels,
God of Archangels,
God of Patriarchs,
God of Prophets,
God of Apostles,
God of Martyrs,
God of Confessors,
God of Virgins,
God who has power to give life after death and rest after work:
because there is no other God than Thee and there can be no other,
for Thou art the Creator of all things,
visible and invisible,
of Whose reign there shall be no end,
we humbly prostrate ourselves before Thy glorious Majesty
and we beseech Thee to deliver us by Thy power
from all the tyranny of the infernal spirits,
from their snares,
their lies and their furious wickedness.
Deign, O Lord,
to grant us Thy powerful protection
and to keep us safe and sound.
We beseech Thee through Jesus Christ Our Lord.
Maybe you should read the CCC as pertains to those in invincible ignorance and salvation, Abeca. You seem to think what is stated in the CCC is heretical – or seem to believe that just because someone you wish to smear says as much they must be bad.
Your opinions/theories are all personal, based not in fact or Faith.
It is blasphemy AND heresy AND idiocy. Where’s the priest? Where’s the bishop?
At this time when we should be meditating on the Passion of Our Lord Jesus, we are subjected to these images. Lord, we invoke your Divine Mercy and Your Divine Justice upon those who blaspheme You in this way. Amen!
Regarding the idea of the “body in prayer”— I would so LOVE to see something special, from the old Tridentine Mass Rite of Communion, re-instated into the Vatican II Novus Ordo Mass– kneeling at the altar rail, to receive Holy Communion, on the tongue!! Perfect “body prayer” posture!! LOVE it!!
Disgraceful … par for the course for AmChurch.
I am from India, a 47 year old cradle catholic and intimately familiar with the Hindu culture. As evident from its popularity, Yoga definitely has a power to improve one’s physical well being. All the poses. exercises, chants etc are part of the ancient Hindu vedic texts. Most western Yoga practitioners are only initiates in this field and MUST do their research as to the SOURCE of this knowledge. The point of contention for a Catholic is whether these texts (and the associated spiritual and physical powers harnessed with their implementation) are inspired by the God of Abraham (The One True GOD) of whom Jesus is his only begotten son , or some other spiritual source/power who wants to rob worship away from the true GOD and has twisted the concept of divinity and spirituality. As far as I know, 6000 years of Judeo-Christianity makes not even a single mention of Yoga let alone other Hindu concepts of Reincarnation, Karma and pantheism (worship of multiple God’s).
Any one who practices YOGA risks breaking the first commandment. We must ask the question – CAN WE RISK SCRIFICING OUR SPIRITUAL WELLBEING FOR THE SAKE OF OUR PHYSICAL WELLBEING?
Thank you for your post.
” ALL the POSES. EXERCISES, CHANTS etc are part of the ancient HINDU VEDIC texts.
….. The point of contention for a Catholic is whether these texts (and the associated spiritual and physical powers harnessed with their implementation) are inspired by God……. or some other spiritual source/power who wants to rob worship away from the true GOD and has twisted the concept of divinity and spirituality. ”
YOGA is part of another Religion.
Those who practice Yoga practice a pagan Faith.
Thank you for that!
Thank you for posting, Catholic from India.
Good comments Catholic from India…..this is what our priests need to be preaching from the pulpit too! Informing the faithful because many may fall astray, some will buy into this yoga or new age crap! It causes much spiritual warfare! I know, I have seen in families who do yoga, I have felt the spiritual warfare! This is trash! The trash that seeks to hurt the church but it won’t happen because every evil force will be put to shame, will be exposed and destroyed because Jesus saves and will not let this evil live on forever! People are becoming more vein, vanity has been overpowering good people, people have been willfully surrendering to things they think are OK. When we compromise just a little bit, we open the door to spiritual attacks. There is a battle with the flesh, with evil wanting to take souls. Immodesty is part of the issue! Lord Jesus forgive us! Send your letters of complaints and send also information to educate the lay faithful and priests as to why we should not permit these abuses! This is a great opportunity to help those who are ignorant, lets be merciful, lets be charitable because not all have the same knowledge or understanding about these things as we where given, we must charitably inform them with facts too and CCC teachings, even biblical if we have to…..after that, they can’t say they didn’t know!
“…this is what our priests need to be preaching from the pulpit too! Informing the faithful because many may fall astray, some will buy into this yoga or new age crap!”
Unfortunately, many priests/religious have fallen for the new age nonsense or else it would never be allowed in the context of Catholic worship. (One of my many sisters learned all the new age nonsense she now adheres to on retreat at a lovely, obliging “Catholic” convent in California.) The people have not done this on their own. Either that or the Shepherds have chosen to look the other way and let the people have what they will.
So while letters of protest are important so too is the examination of how it could be that seminaries could produce “priests and religious” who are seemingly unaware of spiritual combat and the dangers of syncretism or, in some cases, eagerly embrace it.
You have posted before, Abeca, that it is often more difficult to convert a Catholic gone astray than a pagan. That said, it is even more difficult to convert and/or educate one who is by their very office our superior in the supernatural order – a priest/religious – as to the dangers of what they obviously embrace and/or consider harmless.
This is most certainly a spiritual combat.
No Ann Malley i said than an atheist….that is what a priest told us. Not Pagan, I said atheist…and quoted a holy priest faithful to Rome.
Whether it be a pagan or an atheist, Abeca, the point is if a Catholic priest has embraced this yoga nonsense – and all manner of syncretism – then it would be even more difficult for YOU to convert/teach him than to convert those you consider to be heretics and/or schismatics.
God bless you and be well.
Yes its no different from your SSPX deny the holocaust…so yes they are both sinners….also the cover up from a few of the SSPX of sexual abuse…..I posted the facts before from your own members who exposed those abuses… so not only are the SSPX not in full communion but they are also having their own abuses as well. Our church has its issues but it still does not take away Jesus promises to us. So learn you facts before you speak up lady. Your bad will here is gone on too long!
…here we go again with Abeca’s purple giraffes out the window. You are arguing with yourself.
Has anyone informed Archbishop Gomez of this abomination?
Paganism, but stil ok with the Church yet the S.S.P.X. who are Roman Catholics are treated like dogs!!!!!
Couple of things here:
1. Yoga’s origins are in Hinduism, which is not pagan. It’s a monotheistic religion that predates the Abrahamic ones.
2. The yoga used here is secularized to the point of being a purely a sequence of poses, and the effect it has on a person (bringing about a state of mental focus and clarity)
3. SSPX left the Church on its own, and is in schism because it refuses to recognize the authority of Rome. It is a cult that sees itself as superior to the Church, and victimized because the world will not bend to its will. At this point, SSPX opinions about the Church are about as relevant as any other non-Catholic Christian denomination. Looks and acts similar. Not the same.
Pablo Berry, you are wrong about the SSPX.
They are Catholic, and they are not excommunicated since 2009, which means they can receive the Sacraments.
However: ” In order to make this clear once again: until the doctrinal questions are clarified, the Society has no canonical status in the Church, and its ministers – even though they have been freed of the ecclesiastical penalty – do not legitimately exercise any ministry in the Church.” – Pope Benedict XVI https://w2.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/letters/2009/documents/hf_ben-xvi_let_20090310_remissione-scomunica.html
You are wrong about Yoga, and paganism.
YOGA is a practiced form a worship today, no matter what Americans say.
Yoga (/ˈjoʊɡə/; Sanskrit: योग, Listen) is a physical, mental, and SPIRITUAL practice or discipline. There are a variety of schools, practices and goals in Hinduism, Buddhism including Vajrayana and Tibetan Buddhism and Jainism
A PAGAN in secular English is defined as: ” An adherent of a religion other than Judaism, Christianity, or Islam, or one who worships many gods.
Within HINDUISM, a large number of personal gods (Ishvaras) are WORSHIPPED as murtis.
These beings are significantly powerful entities known as devas.
Initially the Hindu pantheon of Gods included a limited set of deities and many new sects have since formed acknowledging living priests as deities.
One consistent belief held by all BUDDHIST schools is the lack of a Creator deity.
lol. The fake Indian name is a nice touch.
1) All the gods of the Gentiles are demons, Pablo. So while Hinduism predates Christianity, then the previous admonition from the Bible would apply.
2) Any exercise which brings about an altered state of mental focus and clarity should be viewed very critically. Indian cultures use peyote to render themselves more open to the “spirit”. And just like peyote has side consequences so too can the practice of other “exercises.” (I find it rather odd that the Church for 2000 years knew of the practice of Eastern religions, but for some odd reason shied away from incorporating them, but now, suddenly, we are all so enlightened to believe that we can adopt Eastern ways. Why is that?
3) There is no schism. Your assertions as to the “why” behind the irregular situation are also seemingly off base. As for “looking the same”, again, you are not quite on target as the Society would never allow Yoga or Hindu practices inside the Church. But if you do not take issue with an “authority” that would allow such heterodox practice then perhaps you do not understand the mission of Church authority – that of transmitting and protecting the Deposit of the Faith, not using said authority to invite error and a complete watering down of the Faith that would lead to such nonsense.
3. “Irregular” should win an award for understatement. In this case, it means completely separate. SSPX ordains its own priests that are not Catholic priests. It operates chapels that are not churches. It has an operating structure that is not under the purview of Rome. It is not part of the Church. At all.
At its most basic, the authority of the Church is a jurisdictional one. There are lots of Christian denominations, but only one RC one. Break away from Rome and do your own thing, and you’re a non-Catholic Christian denomination. Own it. If you’re going to ordinate priests and bishops, just go for a pope, too. Tell the congregants you’re the One True Faith. Nearly every religious tradition does.
The fascinating thing about SSPX is evident here: An attempt to play both sides of the coin. Placing ones self both above and beyond the authority of the Church, then act as the true protector of its soul.
It’s a star-crossed love where SSPX is so truly Catholic that it can’t deign to mix with the common Catholic church, and ceases to be the only thing it cares about. So tragically romantic. You can live in denial about it, but why bother?
2. Seeking an altered state of consciousness for meditative clarity is called mysticism in the Christian canon.
1. “All the gods of the Gentiles are demons.” Is that Psalm 96 from some arcane translation designed to validate xenophobia?
….completely out of date and ill informed, Pablo Berry. You seem to raise yourself above the magisterium when you declare Catholics non-Catholic. Perhaps you should tweet the Holy Father and get clarity. (But then many do not like clarity, but rather prefer to toss erroneous labels to sound – romantic. Romantic in the sense of bigger and bolder than actual reality.) That said, do you constitute the first commandment as designed to validate xenophobia?
The “fascinating” thing here is Pablo Berry and crew seeking to unhinge the Catholic Faith from the foundations of – what? – the Catholic Faith in order to justify labeling the Faith of Our Fathers somehow no longer Catholic – for nobody in the SSPX advocates that the society itself is the true protector of souls, but rather that the keeping of the true faith – for one, holding to the reality that all the ‘gods’ of the Gentiles are demons – is what saves souls. Not morphing the bible into convenient political texts that can now be discarded.
So whereas you seem to lean toward the romantic, painting overblown pictures of star crossed loyalties and the seeming outcasts deigned unworthy, that is not reality and or anything close to accurate. That is not even the official teaching of the Church. But again, your last point about xenophobia really speaks the the truth of your agenda – and those who would insert that which is not Catholic smack inside the Church to confuse Catholics.
What’s fascinating here is all the paradox.
Magesterial authority is used to defend a group defined by its rejection of magesterial authority.
SSPX is presented as the keeper of the true faith, which apparently entails leaving the temporal authority of the true faith, and thus negates that claim.
I hate to break it to you, but priests ordained outside the Church are not Catholic priests. The sacraments they perform are not recognized by the Church. “Not Catholic” is not a value judgement. It is a statement of fact.
What do you suppose the eventual outcome is here? The Church is never going to submit to the will of the SSPX. Reconciliation is a matter of acquiescence not for the Church, but the splinter group.
Your incessant defense is interesting. It appears to be an attempt at obfuscation and recruitment, but gives a lot of insight. It gives the impression that the Society will eventually need to declare itself the true Church, if only to propagate its hierarchy. The conditions it sets for reconciliation will frankly never happen.
Who knows, though. It may eclipse and subsume the genuine Church at some point. It resembles the Salafi movement in Islam in many ways. It even seeks to recreate the same general moment in history. Salafism has been responsible for the return of Islam’s world dominance. Fundamentalist, arch conservative, and ultra-orthodox religious sects have high birth and retention rates.
Pablo Berry you are correct!
Abeca, Pablo Berry is confused as evidenced by:
“All the gods of the Gentiles are demons.” Is that Psalm 96 from some arcane translation designed to validate xenophobia?
Follow that logic if you will.
That is more or less an arcane translation not so much designed as embraced to validate xenophobia. The passage is even used as an example in the Wikipedia page for demonization, where I found it.
It’s from a 4th century Latin translation that contains an error in Hebrew>Greek>Latin>English, where your devils/demons comes from. The Hebrew>English translation is idols, which is in every Catholic Bible from the past few centuries.
Interesting to see how embracing an error is so central so identity. Primacy is not enough. It becomes necessary to imbue other with supernatural powers of evil.
Oh it has everything to do with Vatican II, keep those heads buried in the sand as if nothing has occured in the Church for the last 50 years of destruction, as always pray for the return of The Traditional Latin Mass the Mass of All of Times and pray for a savior from Rome!!!
The Body in Prayer series is meant to help people meditate on Jesus, said Kelley, and is not meant “to port any of the stated spiritual outputs of yoga in the transcendental or Hindu sense.”
From the article
….many things are “meant” to be something, but are not advisable, Anonymous. We could distribute alcohol at mass as a means to relax folks and get them to “feel” more communal and at home, but that is not advisable.
Ann Malley, you’re so quietly funny…but be careful with your suggestions as the same people that put on those musical Masses with dancers prancing about and earnest souls banging on the tambourines and bongos might get the idea of martini Masses, or something. Or Tango Tea Masses. So many possibilities, so little time, right?
Oktoberfest mass! I see it now. Beer steins and “St.” Paulie Girl.
This is a very liberal “Catholic Church”. I know which one it is and where it is. Cardinal Mahoney was at this church. I would not recommend this church to anybody who is looking for real “Catholic” will not find it here.
Oh, for goodness’ sake, yoga doesn’t have to be directed at any Hindu “gods.” It can simply be exercise.
Just like the word meditation: it doesn’t mean you are a Buddhist, a disciple of the Dalai Lama, it can also be Christian mediation, which has a long and rich history in our beloved Church.
Dance doesn’t mean you are a Wiccan, and a vegetarian diet doesn’t mean you are some bizarre heathen: our good Archbishop, Salvatore J. Cordileone, is a dedicated vegan, and no one in his right mind would accuse Archbishop Cordileone of being pseudo-Catholic!!
Anonymous, please provide a link to an OFFICIAL Church Document which says YOGA may be practiced as any part of the Catholic Faith.
The ‘Stations of the Cross’ are an Official Catholic religious practice commemorating the Crucifixion of Christ.
The Way of the Cross is an OFFICIAL Liturgical Act.
It is a SACRILEGE to picture Jesus as practicing YOGA while being crucified.
The Benedictine monks at the monastery near my home incorporate similar physical practices in some of their times of prayer. These monks are orthodix and faithful to the magesterium.
Do these monks have pictures of Jesus practicing YOGA, while being crucified – due to our sins?
Wow, I just don’t think like most of the people on this website.
To me, I don’t think of Yoga as something inherently harmful. No one is getting robbed, raped, or killed. Many people see big benefits to their ambulation, their mental clarity, and blood pressure.
Of course, I view it in secular terms as an exercise that also aids mental clarity. For those who like Yoga, as practiced in western culture, I could see why someone would like to contemplate Christ’s suffering while in that state of mental/physical clarity. So I am not offended by the idea of combining Yoga and the Stations of the Cross, presuming one approaches the process with reverence.
Now, I have a hard time buying into western yoga as pagan worship. Certainly most here who participate in Yoga do not think of it in religious terms, and I don’t see how it is worship of another Diety lacking intent. That’s sort of like saying a Buddhist who inadvertently makes the sign of the cross is worshiping Jesus.
That belief seems like superstition to me.
However, the Church offering it as a sacrament seems overboard. It so drastically changes the ceremony that I think the parish priest would have to seek permission from central church authority.
JonJ, just because someone is not being robbed, raped, or killed – does not mean something is not inherently evil.
(And we already know you do not like the Catholic Faith and what it teaches including regarding homosexual acts.)
1) ” I am the Lord Thy God, and Thou shall not have strange God’s before me.”
2) “You shall not take the name of the Lord, your God in vain.”
3) ” Observe the Sabbath day to keep it Holy.”
These are GOD’s first 3 commandments.
There are many who practice YOGA as a part of their Religion in the USA. And for you to say otherwise is wrong.
Taking parts of other people’s religion and pretending it is not part of their faith is absurd.
This is not permitted, and is part of NEW AGE Religion which has been condemned.
Btw, those who make the ‘Sign of the Cross’ are worshipping Jesus.
CCC: ” 2166 The Christian begins his prayers and activities with the Sign of the Cross: “in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.” “
Some may consider Yoga a “religious” experience. I believe, however, the vast majority of Yoga practicioners in the United States view it as simple exercise. Intent is the key.
The question here isn’t really doctrinal; it’s whether “Thou shalt not recognize strange gods before Me” applies to Yoga performed as exercise.
I am skeptical of “sins” that cannot be explained in terms of objective harm, or risk of objective harm, to ourselves or others. Anyone can say, “God doesn’t like turning the propeller on your tri-colored beanie counter-clockwise”. Thus, if “God’s will” is the only support you have for the sinfulness of an act, you need to examine that theology because it’s likely to be an arbitrary rule unsupported by natural law.
Yoga’s physiological benefits seem to exist within the realm of science, not mysticism. I see no harm in a Catholic using those techniques to achieve health benefits as long as they do not buy into the supernatural beliefs involved in eastern Yoga.
As for homosexuality, my objections are more centered on how I believe the Church treats homosexuals in ways that are not consistent with the doctrine in the CCC, more than objecting to the doctrinal teaching themselves.
For example, no one has suggested unrepentant gluttons, fornicators, or masturbators should be fired from their jobs, denied housing, or put in prison. Yet, the Catholic Church in America has written Amicus briefs supporting such punishments for homosexuals in US legal cases.
JonJ, we can not trust you to be accurate.
Therefore, please supply links to official Court Documents whereby the Catholic Church ever advocated that anyone with “SAME SEX ATTRACTION” should be denied housing, or put in prison, or fired from their jobs.
Your personal opinion means nothing to us. Catholics adhere to the Bible and CCC.
If you read a Catholic Bible and the CCC in entirety, you would see that any sin that is stated is also provided with the reason.
And the footnotes include references to the Bible as well.
People can meditate on God, and on Christ’s sufferings without the religious exercises of other faiths.
Well Cindy, I’ll give you cites for the Catholic Church supporting putting homosexuals in prison:
The Catholic League wrote an amicus curiae brief to support Georgia’s criminal anti-sodomy law in Bowers v. Hardwick. You can see this in the first footone on page 1 where amicus briefs are listed in the decision. https://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=478&invol=186
The USCCB spoke out many times against Lawrence v. Texas which overtturned Bowers v. Hardwick, including this link: https://www.glapn.org/sodomylaws/lawrence/lwnews090.htm
Note that the Texas sodomy law supported by the USCCB was only a criminal act if performed by homosexuals. Heterosexuals who engaged in sodomy did not qualify under the act. Thus, the Church showed its support for putting homosexuals in prison, while fornicators and maturbators should not suffer for similar acts.
Of course, trying to contest the idea that the Catholic Church has supported the idea that homosexuals should be put in prison is disingenuous, since it was Ecclesiastical Court punishments for homosexuality that led to criminalizing homosexual acts in Anglo Saxon law. You can read about that here: https://rictornorton.co.uk/homopho5.htm
The beginning comes from St. Dunstan, Archbishop of Canterbury, who set out to reform the church and civil law, making ecclesiastical law the core of civil law.
How that Christian tradition led to modern US criminal laws, you can read this: https://blogs.gonzaga.edu/gulawreview/files/2011/01/Duong.pdf
Look at the pictures for this “Body in Prayer”.
They makes fun of Jesus, who is pictured as practicing YOGA while dying for our sins.
This is ridiculous, and very disrespectful to God.
Canisius comes under fire for observing the relationship between these “Yoga Stations of the Cross” and Vatican II. The effort to find Vatican II’s decrees innocent of the deconstruction of what was once clearly held Catholic belief is a tall order—as tall as Anne Kelley’s efforts to create a “Yoga Stations of the Cross” service that doesn’t inherently entail Hindu deistic belief and practice. Catholic From India has eloquently pointed that out above.
Yet Canisius is correct because specifically in Lumen Gentium, the door was opened to multiple belief-systems that were previously clearly defined as “pagan”:
“Those also can attain to everlasting salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or the Church yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience.” (LG n. 16) Persons may follow their conscience can attain to their own everlasting salvation, in effect.
The penetration of Catholic belief occasioned by Vatican II’s approval especially involves the incorporation of Hindu beliefs into the Catholic system, including yoga. One of the cardinals most motivated by Vatican II’s syncretism was the late Joseph Card. Parecattil of Ernaculam, India (d. 1987), who was a key attendant at the council.
No one is under fire…you are just one of those who give out too much fear mongering because you are infused with error! Your ignorance and hatred of V2 shows well, there is no common sense with you and no use dialoguing with you. You neglect key elements to the truth, due mostly to your schism, that in itself is already leading people to sin and spiritual blindness. All this pride due to sin and disobedience is connected to heresy and schism and more…sin! The sin of prideful human beings!
Good grief, Abeca, enough already with the schism and heresy slander while looking completely the other way at precisely *how* YOGA and other utter nonsense infiltrates the Catholic Church. Obviously some cleric or two has *allowed* this infiltration and not because they didn’t know it was evil, but rather because they would find your admonishment that it is evil silly.
Translation: They are running their parishes precisely how “they” want. To reiterate a favorite statement of yours, “Helloooooo.”
Why not try reality mongering for a while and stop blaming everyone else for what is getting tacit approval inside the Catholic Church.
Ann Malley keep on moving along…..correct your SSPX before you come on our church and make comments, you have a lot to correct and work on before you can speak and judge others! so yes good grief…..your hypocrisy is not a pretty sight to read on here…..
…Abeca, it isn’ YOUR Church. Perhaps that is why you seem to believe that you know all and sundry. But you really need to look around and what is happening and then seek the why. Otherwise you’ll just be writing letters until the purple giraffes come home – and they never will.
And the only one judging others is you. Rather incorrectly, too.
Maybe you should redirect your VII issues to the Priest/Yogi in the following article, Abeca:
For whereas you are interpreting things in a traditional manner, reality would indicate that not all those with priestly faculties (and the authority to preside over parishes and unsuspecting faithful) agree with your interpretation. Or Fr. Amorths.
Father Joseph Pereira also directly correlates his views on incorporating YOGA into the Church to VII ideas. That is why precision in the documents is crucial – not the pastoral open doors that lead to stuff like this.
Thank you Steve Phoenix! Keep asking for clarity. Also, thank you for defending Canisius’s love of the Catholic Faith. Canisius has been accused of fear mongering and gossiping. Look at the scandal that this article has caused because of a lack of masculine definitive leadership when clarifying that this is WRONG. Abeca once wrote on another post that we should show patience and charity to those who are “ignorant” because they do not know the faith and we should charitably teach them. I will now show that patience with Abeca even though she clearly has not practiced what she has preached about speaking charitably to others. First of all, the passion that Canisius shows is masculine and decisive. it is not wishy washy or feminine. Canisius also fought as a courageous soldier in the war for our country. When a holy Archbishop also calls for clarifications regarding Vatican II, he is not gossiping or fear mongering. He sees the confusion. It is ignorance and silence that has wreaked such havoc within. This mixing of YOGA with stations of the cross is outrageous and here we have another feminizing finger wagging woman, (who at Easter was promoting the so-called Catholic version of a popular Protestant song) criticizing a masculine faithful soldier.
You should not idolize people nor should you demonize people.
If Catherine was of good will, she would say Amen to PETE and MIKE comments who are faithful, not discredit them by promoting the moral relativism that Steve and some others are trying to spread here. God have mercy on these souls for their disobedience and disloyalty and for not seeking the truth! Sin happens not only in this parish who promotes Yoga but also sin happens by the comments of those who promote to be traditional Catholics yet they find every opportunity to spread rumors that are untrue. V2 does not approve of this meditation, why then did they feel the need to say its a spirit of V2….that already shows their bad will to not speak the truth and help us all fight the battle due to sins of the bad will.
If Abeca were of good will she would be thankful to be shown the keys folks are using to enable the infiltration of yoga into the Catholic Church. Even if there are only 5-6 areas in V2 documents that require clarification – the need for clarity is borne out because such phrases *are* being misused to spread error. Error that every Catholic should be opposed to spreading. (Much like the misunderstandings of the Church’s position regarding those with same sex attraction that needed to be addressed/clarified in going from the CCC first edition to the CCC second ediion. Would you classify those commenting on the inadequacy of the first edition as being of bad will, Abeca? Or doing what is necessary to clearly communicate what Holy Mother Church has always taught?)
Hiding/protecting that which facilitates evil is no good will – it is a huge part of the problem, Abeca. And so is blindly defending faulty language/phrasing that is allowing for all manner of abuse inside the Church.
Please, for your own soul, stop misjudging others with your own bad will and bias.
Oh Ann Malley who cares if you do not find me of good will…..because you are a schismatic! You are absurd!
God bless you, Abeca, but you need some real help. I hope you get it – and from a wholesome source.
Jesus is my help, my Lord and savior. Call upon His holy name. Trust only in Him. Jesus with me, Jesus always and Faithful Jesus my all and only. His protection with me. Jesus i love you only, more and more each moment day by day, night by night. Jesus my everything, my all. Amen
Moral relativism is seen here, practiced often…..Catherine would like us all to believe that by correcting some of the errors that Canisius posts that we are questioning his love of the Catholic faith? Really….first off anyone who loves the Catholic faith will get their facts straight first about V2 second, anyone who loves the Catholic faith would not use words like “the spirit of V2″….that is not Catholic. I’m making these comments because Cathereine said ” thank you for defending Canisius’s love of the Catholic Faith”…….moral relativism, she promotes her truth and Canisius truths and does not state facts like PETE and MIKE post here. She advocates Steve’s comments who takes out of context the truth. They promote their own truths that are not absolute, because if we are for Jesus for one Truth, one God, then how are advocating breakage from His Magesterium, His apostolic truths seeking for the truth! They do not make sense and it clearly displays their ignorance!
“..first off anyone who loves the Catholic faith will get their facts straight first about V2.”
Then please, follow your own admonishment, Abeca.
Ann Malley has no defence. She throws weak arguements. Argue all you want, not wasting more time here.
Catherine, it is a lie to imply that the YOGA stations of the Cross are the fault of V II, and you should not support liars.
The YOGA stations of the Cross with sacrilegious pictures are due to the sins of INDIVIDUALS and those bad Bishops who are not doing their jobs.
The 5 or 6 sentences that need clarification have NOTHING to do with YOGA stations or any of the complaints any of the posters on this site have listed.
False statements against V II are sinful.
Stick with the Truth.
With you ladies there is no clarity just confusion and deception. Shame on you!
This clear lack of teaching and understanding is exactly why we are reading the above article as well as the comments from those who support this disgraceful type of church sacking that Our Lady of Akita warned us about. The new motto is “Let’s mix it up with the Protestant practices and some of their songs and also with the Hindu Yoga.” We’ll call it compromising or the anything goes religion because after all one religion is as nice as anyone else’s, including Hindu. This is all done at the expense of knowing and understanding the fullness of truth.
Please check the link below for just one example of the kind of musical gifts that have been forgotten or replaced with Protestant hymns being regularly sung at Mass. The Protestant song “I Can Only Imagine” that Abeca encouraged is often played at Mass. It is heartbreaking to know that many of these Protestant songs have replaced the sublime Catholic music and that the people do not even know.
Here is an example of beautiful Catholic Easter Music
Salve Festa Dies (easter) Fontfombault
look who’s talking now…..
Let’s all try to look at what is being said and done. The only “who” that should be the concern are those in positions of authority – priests,etc – who are allowing that which is not Catholic and/or potentially dangerous to the Catholic Faith into the Church wherein it can undermine/mislead the understanding of Catholic faithful.
Ann Malley when you start practicing what you preach, it is then that I will take you more seriously. You have lacked much in the past especially the facts about the abuses from SSPX…….strong points I have made in the past but because you have an agenda and yours is not for the good of the church, The Magesertium then how can I even begin………………….. so no offense, do not take offense,. take care
…the facts you seem interested in, Abeca, are how much dirt to throw in order to shut down real discussion about pertinent issues and their root causes, Abeca. And sorry, but you have made no strong points regarding the errors of the Society (not that that is relates to this thread at all.) But you seem to have a real beef with anyone you perceive being honest about assessing the fallout (not fruits) of VII.
Throw your threats at folks like the priest-yogi in the article below:
Take a critical look at what he uses to justify himself. VII.
As for my agenda, you have no idea what it is because you are perpetually telling me what it is, based on your own fears and bias. But why you are so afraid to look analytically and realistically at VII documents is truly amazing. Especially for one who purports to love Mother Church.
Wouldn’t clarifying the ambiguity that allows for priest-yogis be in everyone’s best interest? Especially since you yourself relayed exorcist’s warnings on the matter?
Catherine took again more things out of context The Protestant song “I Can Only Imagine” that Abeca encouraged is often played at Mass. Wow she sure is a complicated person who loves to give cheap shots. This is the same witness from many who call themselves Traditional and faithful yet they are not…they are more dangerous because they may look faithful but their hearts speak different especially when they want to take out of context and share how they view things away from God…..
I have never heard that song played at Mass,,,never….I just used the link to express how beautiful that song is, I never said it was played at mass,…..but its good that Catherine took the time to look into my links…she can have something else to criticize. as usual.
Abeca, you know her. If she can’t find something in your post to twist to make you look bad, she just plain makes it up.
Ignore the devil.
You made the extremely telltale choice of informing the entire blogosphere that you smelled the roses “first”. Abeca, I now see that your previous announcement was perhaps a signature prelude in advancing your agenda of showcasing that you have the ability to not only “smell the roses first” but to also read hearts and minds when trying to EVEN silence CCD. “just tired of it.” Abeca if you could read hearts and minds you would never have encouraged a so called Catholic version of a Protestant song, ESPECIALLY at Easter. This story above is about mixing practices of other religions and you still do not seem to get it. Catholics do NOT “have to only imagine about the truth behind the word Transubstantiation” nor do they need a Protestant You Tube song to bolster up the Source and Summit of our Catholic Faith. You seem to need that bolstering with Protestant songs because if you didn’t you would never have encouraged Easter music that wasn’t solidly Catholic. So it seems that you too, are obviously as susceptible as the people who think that mixing it up with Yoga in a Catholic church is fine. Only your un-catechized version of weakness is mixing it up with Protestant music and telling the world how a distraught girlfriend received better pornography counseling from a Protestant counselor.
Catherine I know she is of bad will…using words like “extremely telltale” against a special moment we had experienced in our family….NOT a telltale NOT an agenda, nothing at all, she is just again performing her usual personal attacks and slander against those who admonish the bad behavior we often see here. She is not a person that can read hearts and she sins when she posts what she posts.
Abeca, You need to reread what I wrote. I never once said that you stated that you said this song was played at Mass. I wrote that “I have heard this song played at Mass”. And why is that? Because people such as yourself ARE encouraging and enabling mixing things up. Why did you even bring that song up at Easter or also bother to tell us how your distraught girlfriend needed to seek better counseling from a Protestant source regarding pornography. Abeca, That is not showing loyalty to the Magisterium. Your support for Protestant practices and music has a distinct tone of schism. You also criticized Pope Francis and compared him to Archbishop Lefebvre. Abeca, You are *all over the map* without a compass. The compass is Jesus Christ and the Church he founded and the Eucharist is the Source and Summit of our faith. Faithful Catholics do not have “to imagine.” That is the key element to reflect on.
For the record the link I provided about the song, which I like as well, I can only imagine, shows the lay faithful making the song Catholic but saying that we don’t have to imagine because we have the Eucharist. its too bad that Catherine misses those key elements to faithfulness. God love her.
PS I didn’t say it was played at mass….she added that on her own…
I love Jesus and even protestants can write and sing songs that express their love for Jesus…..it is often I find that their love when it grows more and more, that it leads them to our Catholic faith and with that hope, we pray for the conversion of all sinners.
Faithful Jesus help us in this battle. Jesus we trust in you.
Parecattil is not well known in the US—but he should be, at least known for his errors: Parecattil, and many others, like Jesuit author Anthony de Mello, theology professor Julian Saldanha, and many others, joyously welcome the inclusion of Hindu practices and therefore beliefs into Catholicism. So Canisius is more than well-founded in blaming Vatican II for this latest flowering of para-liturgical practice.
The proud defenders of Vatican II fail to recognize its bitter fruits, not a “New Springtime for the Church” (Card Leo Joseph Suenes, John XXIII, John Paul II), but a nuclear winter of chaos and collapse. Other councils and synods in church history have similarly erred: the famous 2nd Council (“Robber Council”) of Ephesus (449 AD), or the 1st and 3rd Synods of Tyre (335 AD, 514 AD), the first which proudly condemned St Athanasius’ Christology, which we now hold today, the third which condemned the Council of Chalcedon (Jesus consubstantial with the Father). It is a contrived defense to claim “these weren’t ecumenical”: by that standard, all the Chinese and Eastern Bloc cardinals and bishops who couldn’t attend Vatican II therefore make Vatican II a non-ecumenical council. (Cardinal Mindszenty,as just one example, was trapped in the US Embassy at Budapest for example and could not attend and could not vote at the Council).
The disturbingly ambiguous passages of Lumen Gentium, and other decrees of Vatican II, equate other faiths as equivalent to and equal means of salvation with the Catholic Faith.
Well, that was really interesting Steve. How convenient for those trying to further policies that don’t work by ignoring lessons of the past. I received an email comparing the current presidency to the recent deliberate German plane crash…” The pilot was locked out of the cockpit. That phrase finally revealed the full horror of the crash of Germanwings flight 9525. Co-pilot Andreas Lubitz waited for the pilot to leave the cockpit, then locked the door to prevent
his re-entry…Like those passengers, a growing number of Americans feel a helpless dread as they come to the inescapable conclusion that our nation’s decline is an act of choice rather than of chance. The choice of one man who is in full control of our 8-year plunge………. A man who has locked everyone out.”
Our Church is facing a very similar situation, perhaps?
PS…the thought of the Rosary being connected in any way to yoga, is like having ‘Rosary” beer, or St. Mary cigarettes, as far as I’m concerned. C.S. Lewis felt yoga to be evil and led to evil acts. Those postures employed in yoga open up ‘chakras’ etc. What is wrong with people anymore? Our saints were masters of prayer and meditation. As Paul Newman said about what he said about remaining faithful to his wife, Joanne, ‘why settle for hamburger when you can have steak at home?”
I’m so glad you’re posting again, Dana. Love the Paul Newman quote.
As to the wrangling about YOGA, despite the admonishment of faithful who believe that it is just some odd occurrence that somehow letter writing and patient instruction will solve:
Hey, maybe the letters can be sent to this Priest-Yogi who seems to interpret VII as saying that we are to imbibe the spirituality of other world religions. Troublesome that.
He also states, “…Jesus, for me, is the supreme yogi, because he spoke about being one with God.”
I don’t know about you, Dana, but imbibing other world religions and then equating Our Lord to a yogi because he spoke about being one with God, when He IS God, is a tad disturbing. Not to mention misleading.
As for the 8 year slippery slide here in the States, I’m thinking you’re right.
Very understated but resonant of truth, Anne. “Being one with God”, indeed…good grief, it reminds me of muhammed and his comparing Jesus to himself as just another prophet. Shudder. Next they’ll be calling us yogiphobes. I give your yogi guy at least a ten on my BS- ometer. The needle is spinning wildly.
Oh thrill! Your needle may be channeling, Dana, I mean imbibing something so don’t hold it back just focus on the spinning until you pass out. That’s encountering the spirit. Of what, who knows? But hey, it could become really popular with the kids. And if we all do it right we may bring on the shared fruit of nausea! Tangible, nausea to prove that this “new” and “improved” encounter is truly the way to go because of the colorful product it brings forth!!!!!
” The pilot was locked out of the cockpit. That phrase finally revealed the full horror of the crash of Germanwings flight 9525. Co-pilot Andreas Lubitz waited for the pilot to leave the cockpit, then locked the door to prevent
his re-entry…Like those passengers, a growing number of Americans feel a helpless dread as they come to the inescapable conclusion that our nation’s decline is an act of choice rather than of chance. The choice of one man who is in full control of our 8-year plunge………. A man who has locked everyone out.”
Dana, Thank you for sharing those sobering comparisons. Excellent posts!
Thank you Catherine! What a time to be living…many find it exhillerating but I feel like one of those ducks at the carnival swimming around and around waiting to get picked off by a pop gun. Bam! obama’s elected Bam! Pope Benedict resigns. sigh.
Steve Phoenix, do not blame Vatican II for your lack of knowledge and understanding of the V II documents and the Catholic Faith. Or for getting your dates screwed up.
Back in 1949 Fr. Feeney was excommunicated for his obstinate position that only Catholics can get to Heaven, in violation of the doctrinal letter of Pope Pius XII on June 29, 1943, “On the Mystical Body of Jesus Christ”.
Heretics can be to the far right as well as to the far left. And there are certainly some posting here.
JESUS did not do YOGA (as pictured) while severely suffering and dying for our Sins.
The pictures used for “Body in Prayer” are a LIE !
Lies are the tool of Satan.
yes MIKE I agree, lies and deception come from all areas, even from those who spread rumors about V2 because of their lack of knowledge
Vatican II and its decrees, as Canisius rightly observes, did in fact directly permit the introduction of pagan syncretism into religious practice, specifically in this case with regard to Hindu ritual and belief being actually placed in the liturgy in India. It is a logical progression to see it introduced into a “Yoga Stations-of-the-Cross”.
In fact, Vatican II commission head Cardinal Parecattil (d. 1987) returning to India directly took inspiration from Sacro. Concilium (SC, On the Liturgy) nos. 37-40, deciding that “the Christian liturgy could be enhanced by the introduction of suitable rituals of Hinduism”:
“…The innovative stance of Vatican II in recognizing the inherent value of non-Christian religions also exerted considerable influence on Parecattil.” (J.Nangelimalil, “The Relationship between the Eucharistic Liturgy, etc.”, a laudatory examination of Parecattil’s work deconstructing the Eastern Uniate Syro-Malabar rite).
The result is that Hindu gods have been introduced into Catholic rites throughout India, even the offering of incense to them (similar to the Assisi World Peace gathering in 1986 when an image of Buddha was placed on the altar). Inspiration for this pagan trend is undeniably found in Vatican II, SC, no. 40:
“In some places and circumstances, however, an even more radical adaptation of the liturgy is needed and entails greater difficulties…”
A “radical adaptation of the liturgy” to the “genius and traditions of peoples” (this is exact V2 SC language) is what is called for.
Vatican II, SC, no. 40:
“In some places and circumstances, however, an even more radical adaptation of the liturgy is needed and entails greater difficulties…”
A “radical adaptation of the liturgy” to the “genius and traditions of peoples” (this is exact V2 SC language) is what is called for and, counter to all of Catholic tradition and history, is what is cited by the very adherents of V2.
Now, dismissing the usual emotional imprecatory name-calling by those who stop up their ears and blind their eyes and will not think about the poisonous effect of many of the documents of Vatican II, we ask the rest of you: “What do you see?”
Do you see the Muslim prayer niche, called a “mehrab” that has been placed in St. Ignatius Church (the official “college church” here of USF in San Francisco) in 2014, replacing a traditional side altar where daily traditional Latin Mass used to be celebrated up until 1969? Do you see that, regrettably a recent pope actually venerated and kissed the Koran, a book that calls for the murder and enslavement of all non-Muslims? Do you see that a Hindu ritual was allowed at Fatima (2004), the Fatima rector justifying doing so due to the spirit of Vatican II ecumenical unity? Do you see “Yoga Stations-of-the Cross, now here in the USA?
Our Lord warned: “Can you not discern the signs of the times?” (Mt 16:13) to the spiritually blind and deaf Pharisees. We would do well to take heed.
Thank you very much, Steve Phoenix. But history, especially that which is intentionally not read or encouraged to be used as warning, is repeated for times change, but people don’t.
But even Wikipedia gets it:
“…In a general sense, idolatry is the paying of divine honor to any created thing. In ancient times, opportunities to participate in the honor or worship of other deities abounded. However, according to the Book of Deuteronomy, the Israelites were strictly warned to neither adopt nor adapt any of the religious practices of the peoples around them. Nevertheless, the story of the people of Israel until the Babylonian Captivity is the story of the violation of the first commandment by the worship of “foreign gods” and its consequences. Much of biblical preaching from the time of Moses to the exile is predicated on the either-or choice between exclusive worship of God and false gods. The Babylonian exile seems to have been a turning point after which the Jewish people as a whole were strongly monotheistic and willing to fight battles (such as the Maccabean Revolt) and face martyrdom before paying homage to any other god.”
Back then allowing pagan worship was the attempt to appease the beautiful wives one took and now it is the supposed outreach we must take in charity to reach others with the gospel message. But how precisely obscuring the gospel message in order to transmit it will actually occur – outside of I’m okay, you’re okay – is still rather vague. Then again, vague is the point, much like deception of all manner and kind in order to foist false worship upon the people of God.
But hey, not being a ‘hater’ seems the only order of the day.
Obscure is the perfect word, Anne. The teachings of Jesus and his disciples were utterly clear and precise. Whenever someone is lying, his words are inevitably weak and meant to deceive. Listeners are left confused and wondering if they heard it wrong or are perhaps judging unfairly. They invariably respond…”It’s too soon to tell…I’ll wait and see”. When has anyone every responded that way to anything Jesus said? As you say, vagueness is the point…weasly, sneaky and sly. I have people telling me not to use the word hate and I tell them, “This is what free speech sounds like. You may not always like it, but this is my right to express ideas. If you don’t hate something, you’re incapable of truly loving something. I hate sham and pretense but when I meet something genuine and beautiful it’s thrilling and I love it, don’t you?” I simply hate the idea of mixing yoga with our Lord’s Passion, don’t you, Ann? ;o)
“…I hate sham and pretense but when I meet something genuine and beautiful it’s thrilling and I love it, don’t you?”
Yes, Dana, I do respond to genuine and beautiful. And consistency and even hard teachings are the most beautiful. Often it is like the beauty of mathematics in a subjective world. Being an artistic type, I never liked math although I could do it – slowly because I dawdled.
But getting older and living through the vagaries of life has led me to embrace that clear, symmetrical beauty of that which makes sense, fits, and, in truth, girds the beauty of all that is around us. So while many bash objective realities as somehow bad or narrow minded, it is precisely these beautiful and complex truths that scientifically lend red it’s red, that give water its fluid and satisfying properties, and even give air the qualities required to fill our lungs and feed our bodies.
It is objective reality and truth that supports all. That is why when folks like Pablo attempt to paint an obscure picture of the fullness of faith, consigning objective truth to schism (or a particular group in order to dismiss it) and then proceed to take clear sayings such as, “…all the gods of the Gentiles are demons,” and consign them to xenobphobic plants in order to win the, “You’re right, you’re right,” from the unsuspecting it makes me sad.
Many Catholics refuse to look to the sins that pave the way for abuses.
Oh, well said, Ann! Well said!
…that said, I suppose Aaron should have fashioned a golden Buddha instead of a calf or maybe Shiva. Yeah, that’s the ticket!
Steve, you are so right! I just realized how pervasive pagan practices in the Catholic Church are and am totally horrified.
I have just discovered that untold millions of Catholics worldwide have unwittingly incorporated pagan practices into their prayer routines. The damage to the faith, and their immortals souls, is impossible to measure. It must end! We need to root out these corrupting pagan influences.
It was Steve Phoenix that made me understand that the Church risks perdition by attempting to incorporate ANY pagan practices into Catholic worship.
Thus, we need to round up and BURN all rosaries. For nearly 5 centuries, the Hindu practice of using beads in prayer has been corrupting the Church! You can read about the roots of the Catholic adoption of the rosary here: https://anthromuseum.missouri.edu/minigalleries/prayerbeads/intro.shtml. These pagan practices will inevitably lead us away from God. Intent of the individual doesn’t matter!
The idea that we can take inspiration from pagan practices that are consistent with divine truth is a diabolical pagan lie intended to undermine the Church. I can’t imagine the untold damage that has been done to the worship of Mary by these 5 centuries of paganism.
Now, that Steve Phoenix made me see the light, I realize that St. Thomas Aquinas was a great corrupter of Catholic thought rather than the Church’s preeminent theologian due to incorporating Greek philosophy into Church theology.
It will be a monumental job to get back to the the purity of Catholic Tradition.
Steve Phoenix, V II Doc, “Sacrosanctum Consilium” should never be taken out of context,
nor should you use it as an excuse for placing anything pagan in the Liturgy.
Remember that the VII Docs were written for world-wide use, not merely the USA.
The USA does not need, and therefore should NOT have RADICAL adaptation of the Liturgy as may be needed in some “mission lands” as stated.
Further, even these must be approved by the Apostolic See for approval (SC 40.1)
Please stop misinterpreting any official Church Documents.
And to insure this does not happen, please provide a link in the future.
Thank you PETE, you are a good soul! The TRUTH is what we should all seek.
“The Truth is what we should all seek.”
” No more dummy downing Catholicism, we want the truth” = More Flip Flopping
Here is a truth. Trying to silence CCD by telling them that you are “tired of this” is not fighting the good fight. Once again you are caught in the act of speaking out of both sides of the mouth. Perhaps a shady tone of lavender.
Catherine then stop flip flopping…you want to appear faithful then you throw it away with your comments….you are not for the truth dear…God have mercy on your soul!
Canisius came under fire for observing the obvious, that in the post-Vatican II Church, the general chaos catalyzed by Vatican II and its decrees, what its own adherents call glowingly “the Spirit of Vatican II” (It is a term first used by Yves Congar in a Dec.,1962 address to the council—but the cacophonous screamers didn’t know that. So, besides Canisius, was Congar a heretic? Admit it then.) , now sees its fruition in events like a “Yoga-Stations-of-the-Cross”, or as also observed, in the dissemination of Hindu beliefs and practices to the west of the Church specifically authorized, according to the late Cardinal Parecattil by Vatican II, SC 37-40. We add to that the Muslim prayer-niche or mehrab that is now in St. Ignatius Church, the sacrilegious displays at St Stephens Kirche in Vienna, or the pornographic dance shows put on in one of the most holy shrines of Christendom, Santa Croce in Gerusalemme (2011). (This last event was so outrageous that the Cistercian administrators, who took their inspiration from Vatican II and Sacro. Concilium—they said so, read up on it—Card. Ratzinger suppressed the monastery which had administrated the Church of St Helena for 5 centuries. )
So all these — and I could cite hundreds, but not in 250 words or less—the perpetrators always cited Vatican II, its decrees, and the “Spirit of Vatican II” as their inspiration to go even beyond its written wording. This is license for the chaos and destruction we now witness, the mass departures from the Church, the collapse of religious life, and the loss of faith. And so, because we cite facts and the obvious we are “liars”, “schismatics” and “herrrr-e-tics”. Quack-quack: always the same answer—and never address the facts!
So, as usual, the citations of objective facts of pagan worship cited are not confronted, but snideness and imprecatory name-calling rule the day: not an answer, but an admission, to the disturbingly ambiguous many passages of Vatican II, notably Lumen Gentium; Sacro. Concilium (esp 37-40); and Nostra Aetate.
The false claim is that critical observers of Vatican II are the problem—as if that would change the facts. In fact it was Yves Congar, the great “luminary” of Vatican II, who first used the phrase “the Spirit of Vatican II” in a 1962 address to the Council as justification for a commission to go beyond the written documents and allegedly preserve the conciliar reforms. Yet Canisius is assailed as “spreading untruths” and “immersed in heresy and schism”. So you all admit now that Congar was a heretic and schismatic? The measuring stick always changes, however, when we consider first whom we are to measure, if you are a Novus Ordo Vatican II defender. Only trads, Anne Malley, Dana, the SSPX, etc are “herrrr-e-tics”, quack-quack.
Before 1965: No Hindu rituals or idols in a Catholic Church; after V2/1965, Hindu syncretism within the Catholic Church. Before 1965, no acceptance of Muslim worship; after 1965, Muslim prayer mehrab inside the Catholic Church. Before 1965, no pope in history would ever have venerated a book, the Koran, that justifies the murder of Christians and Jews: after 1965, a pope (one of the better popes, sadly), venerated a pagan book.
Before 1965: No Hindu rituals or idols in a Catholic Church; after V2/1965, Hindu syncretism within the Catholic Church. Before 1965, no acceptance of Muslim worship; after 1965, Muslim prayer mehrab inside the Catholic Church. Before 1965, no pope in history would ever have venerated a book, the Koran, that justifies the murder of Christians and Jews: after 1965, a pope (one of the better popes, sadly, who knew better), venerated a pagan book. So: it is not Vatican II, which all the authorities endless cite as their justification: so what is it? Pray, tell. Or will it be more barking and mewing at the observers, just to avoid confronting reality?
“Hercules himself do what he may:
The cat shall mew, and dog shall have his day.” (Hamlet, Act V, Scene 1)
Here is the letter regarding the EXCOMMUNICATION of Fr, Feeney, because he obstinately taught that since there Is No Salvation Outside the Church therefore only Catholics can get to Heaven.
Note: This is not V II.
it was written Aug. 8, 1949.
And references the dogmatic letter which was issued by the Sovereign Pontiff, Pope Pius XII, on June 29, 1943, “On the Mystical Body of Jesus Christ”.
Maybe you should write this to Abeca, Cindy, for she seems to have an inadequate grasp of salvation inside the Church. That said, I’m not sure why you’ve going off on Fr. Feeney. Although one thing is interesting, he was given a rather sweet an unobtrusive entre back into full communion with the Church. It didn’t require signing anything. So why those who say all they desire for others is full communion, but hold to the requisite sign-off on ambiguity (ambiguity that supposedly didn’t change anything) is absolutely mandatory.
Doesn’t make sense, Cindy. For either VII did insert novelties and/or allow for something different or else there is no reason whatever for the wholesale acceptance of what was, by definition, only a pastoral council.
And in the interim we have yoga in the Church by way of individual interpretation of documents that others insist must never be used out of proper context – and yet they are.
So saying, what’s the problem with holding out for VII documents to be clarified? Sounds like a real rational easy solution that would benefit the salvation of myriad souls – especially since the documents supposedly didn’t really change anything.
Steve, the Church was/is full of heresies and schisms throughout it’s 2000+ year history.
If you think otherwise you are deluding yourself.
These include heresies supported by high ranking clergy.
You can not attribute Jesus being pictured doing YOGA during his suffering to V II.
You are dishonest and a fruitcake. Nor can you twist the V II docs to suit yourself by taking anything out of context.
So what is your point Steve Phoenix ?
Are you insinuating that there were no serious heresies, or schisms prior to Vatican II from 1962-1965 ?
Are you insinuating that prior to Vatican II, no Popes, Bishops or Cardinals ever committed mortal sins ?
…the point is, ED, that since VII that which would “formally” be defined as heretical (like incorporating blatant heresy into the Church) is now looked upon as a matter of inculturation, reaching out, experimenting, being pastoral, going with the spirit (don’t think it’s the Holy Spirit inspiring Yoga-Stations of the Cross) is now tolerated *inside* the Church.
One can be very bold and experimental within the Church – wink, wink – with the exception of the experiment of sticking to what the Church has always taught. Bad, that, very, very naughty. Must be squelched.
So while you intimate that others are saying that nobody prior to VII committed any sin, the reality is that today “sin” has somewhat disappeared beneath a magic, jumbo eraser-head called “pastoral”. And what the Church has always taught hasn’t quite been whited out, but “enhanced” with add on side notes, complete with insert-here carrot marks that serve to negate what the Church has always taught. After all, we’re modern men now. Faith is all well and good, but we must get along at all costs. Unity is key, even if it’s unity with error which completely dismisses the definition of unity. But never mind that, details are divisive.
All the gods of the Gentiles may have been okay for past generations who needed xenophobia to “feeeeeel” elite, but we’re over that now. And the first commandment, well, that’s an easy fix because all the ‘gods’ are the same god!!!
Vatican II has absolutely nothing to do with the bad acts of Bishops:
1) Not requiring their Priests and Laity to adhere to GIRM, or 1962 Missal as appropriate;
2) Allowing YOGA Stations of the Cross with sacrilegious pictures of Christ;
3) Removing Altar rails,
NO ONE must ever equate a Council of the Church with the sins of any individual Clergy, and some posters are trying to do this. – Lying and pretending that the Council is responsible for particular sins, rather than the individual
Some of the posters here are scandalous liars regarding V II.
Some posters such as yourself seem intent on ignoring that which aids man’s sinful inclination – precisely the so called “teaching” documents of VII that are unclear and misleading. Lying and pretending that individual priests, bishops, etc are acting wholly on their own is only aiding in this push for syncretism. Precisely yoga in the Church.
It would be one thing if there was no record of “misinterpretation” of said documents. Then one could claim ignorance. But when something – a lack of clarity – becomes an occasion for the sinful inclination to be “pastoral” to the point of misleading the faithful, something must be done. Like making a new house rule about the liquor cabinet when it comes to light that some in the house are abusive alcoholics. It’s called charity, Cindy, not double down on Mom and Dad should will have an unlocked liquor cabinet because they hope it won’t be abused.
Let us make it perfectly CLEAR that the SACRILEGE is not in an exercise that might be disassociated from another religion.
The SACRLIEGE is in the depiction (pictures) of Christ doing YOGA while suffering for our sins.
This mocks JESUS. This mocks His suffering. This mocks His death.
It relegates His great sacrifice to doing human exercise.
One can not meditate on JESUS when one makes fun of His life giving death through silly pictures.
Here is a moving story about a husband severely injured, who’s wife cared for him, refused to pull the plug, and continues to help him with his recovery. Amazing and inspiring story: https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2015/04/07/pkg-wife-refuses-to-remove-life-support-husband-wakes-up.wtoc
Yoga, may be a religion in some parts of the world, true. But where I have lived for the last 25 years, it is a well liked method of stretching, particularly, for some reason, for women over fifty. There are daily sessions at most of the local gyms, and at the gyms in our sub-division club house. It is a form of exercise, not a religion. So, if a group of Yoga enthusiast want to find a new way to venerate the Via Crocce, what is wrong with that? How is that evil? How can people who want to enact the stations using their experience, how is that evil? At many churches Good Friday includes live stations of the cross with the person portraying Jesus hung on the cross. That’s different for sure, but not evil. Everything does not have to be as it was 500 years ago. The church needs to adapt to the changing world in which it finds itself.
More typical nonsense from Bob One..who detest the TLM but find nothing wrong with Yoga during the stations of the cross..Undo Vatican 2
Bob One, in another discussion, you also claimed that there are no kneelers in St Peters Basilica in Rome.
I don’t know when you were there, but in the Adoration Chapel (to the right as you enter the basilica, next to the Pieta shrine) and also in the are of the daily Mass “chapel” area (under Bernini’s throne, behind the high altar), there are kneelers, Bob One.
Now it is possible under this current pope that the kneelers have recently been removed. That would be a tradition of less than 2 years, vs. a Western Catholic tradition over over 10 centuries, of kneeling (at least). Just setting the record straight.
Also another Novus Ordo person averred that “Mass was never celebrated in the catacombs” in another post. Having been to the catacombs myself, besides studying the matter, they do not know or care to find out apparently, that at the Catacombs of St Callistus (as well as others) there are entire pre-Constantinian (pre-313 AD) underground basilicas where Mass had been celebrated. At the Catacombs of Domitilla, one of the most ancient, there is a small chapel and altar area dating back to extremely ancient times. This is why the true traditional Catholic liturgy celebrates (as they did) the Mass on a relic of one of the martyrs. Of course, that was mysteriously changed “at Vatican II” (actually by one of the many “instructions” of the Bugnini Consilium: it is nowhere mentioned in Sacro. Concilium).
Traditionalist = someone who upon discovering a 1,000 year old error, thinks that prior history is a good reason to keep making the same mistake for the next 1,000 years.
Thus Steve, we would not have a Rosary today because prayer beads were part of Hindu spiritual practice. There would be no “Roman” catholic church because it would have upset the 300 years of tradition before the first council of Nicaea.
Gregorian chant would never have been introduced because it surely displaced some other form of music. And, ecclesiastical courts would still think its a good idea to torture people to get them to confess heresy. And they’d still be using good old traditional methods to adjudicate cases like trial by ordeal.
You might regret moving away from tying people to a heavy spit of wood and throwing them into the water to see if the water either accepts or rejects them is a good way to determine guilt or innocence with respect to a charge of heresy, but you’d be about the only one to think it was reliable. Note that for hundreds of years the Church relied on a theory that said if the water “accpeted” someone they were innocent, leaving the little problem that they might drown. So if they floated they were a heretic, but if they sank underwater the were innocent, but risked drowning.
Great justice system. Tradition is always a great thing, don’t you think?
Good insults, Cindy! It’s a trademark of the “Vatican II” types. No factual discussion of what Phoenix brought out, of course.
Campian its your prideful type that denies the truth that Cindy posted. You will not accept true charity because its what schismatics and heretics do well. Your comments display that the spiritual battle is great, its not only from the disobedience from within but also from outside. The SSPX situation is problamatic and it set an example of what we see here. If The SSPX can do what they want then so can also the bad willed who stay and take for granted their faith. The SSPX is a perfect example of bad will actions that travel all over but more dangerous because on the surface people are tricked into thinking they did a noble thing breaking from Christ’s church, they trick people into believing they are Catholic but all along they deceive and mislead others into breakage of the body of Christ. Yoga and SSPX both are similar in the purpose set forth by the enemy. But at least yoga is not preaching to be Catholic While SSPX is.
Abeca, God bless you. I understand you are trying to be faithful. But it is completely erroneous and illogical to compare the desire to keep to what the Church has always taught as being the same as yoga which is of a “different” religion.
If you truly believe that there is trickery afoot, then you shouldn’t be opposed to clearing up the novelties of VII documentation (built in by way of vagueness).
And yes, the SSPX is preaching to be Catholic – using nothing but what the Catholic Church has always taught before the smoke of Satan was let inside to confuse.
God bless and be well.
Your opinions again Ann Malley..but your opinions neglect that.the smoke of Satan also entered the minds of those who broke away like the SSPX…..you idolizing them is already a good sign that you do not keep your focus on Christ and His promises.
Abeca, VII documents are not “the” Church. So if you would stop elevating an obviously compromised council instead of believing that the elevation of ambiguity is somehow trusting in God – well – perhaps the smoke of Satan could be drive out.
Christ spoke very clearly in the gospels and we should, too. Not cover up for those who use their positions of power to circumvent what Christ taught us.
God bless you, but you should do some actual research on what “breaking away” means, Abeca. You are very confused and ill informed. Much like those who are, under the auspices of pastoral experimentation and outreach, using Yoga inside the Catholic Church. Diabolic disorientation, Abeca. What you term as abuse isn’t happening in a vacuum, much as you’d like to pretend it is.
Ann Malley, are you just trying to invent your own peculair heresy?
Will it be known as malleyism?
Your post almost got by me, campion. Well said. I find that to be so true…Steve, Ann Malley, Catherine, Linda Marie and others bring up relevant facts to the discussions here and all their detractors can come up with are accusations of schism. Why not get upset with bishops promoting illegal immigration, same sex marriage, communion for dissenters etc? Oh, that’s right…they’re all pro-Vatican II so there’s no problem. All the people castigating Cd.Cordileone are pro-Vatican II, also. At some point even those completely lacking insight or common sense must see the illogical premise of their spiteful, venomous carping.
Dana its a lie. Most of their comments bring forth personal attacks, personal opinions, bickering and slander. For instance Steve on other threads used words like quack quack novos etc. Dana its a pity that you find their behavior/dialogue acceptable. You need to reflect. God help us all. You say your a convert? Really? A convert to what? Schism or heresy? Not to insult but trying to get clarity of what type of convert are you really from?
…Abeca, this is not an exercise in correcting people’s tone, behavior, word choices, etc. (That brand of exchange belongs in a kindergarten classroom, not a forum wherein adult Catholics discuss real issues.) Your focus on how something is said instead of what is said is nothing more than an age old tactic intended to shut down conversation and avoid facts.
And now you are seeking to shame a convert by questioning their integrity. And you expect adults to respect this behavior? Goodness, but you just proved the point being made that you are not arguing facts, but rather seeking the means to slander and distract so as to avoid discussing the meat of any issue. Issues you perceive as a threat.
But why would clarity in doctrine and speaking the truth about what needs to be cleaned up and how it could be cleaned up pose such a threat to you? A faithful Catholic? That doesn’t make any sense, Abeca, not one bit of sense.
The pity here is that you have given over the opportunity to be a real force for good and signed on board to be the enabler of cover-up, distraction, denial and finger pointing in an attempt to blame anything/everyone save those responsible for causing the problem.
Church Definition – –
CCC: ” 2089….HERESY is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith,
or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same; ”
Those causing the problem are those on the far right and far left who do not adhere to Church teaching as stated in Sacred Scripture and the “Catechism of the Catholic Church” second edition – in entirety.
Sacred Scripture is the speech of God, and the CCC contains the Doctrine of the Faith.
Why not use the CCC first edition, DOTTIE? Were there passages that needed clarification? That said, I wonder if you were as hard line in declaring heretic/schismatic when those reading the first edition of the CCC noted the potential errors in language. Perhaps petitioning for clarification?
Common sense definition of a misguided ideologue: Incapacity and/or unwillingness to engage in common logic and reason. Blind sheep. One who may “follow” teachings, but has no clue what they actually mean/say. One who would have gladly embraced CCC first edition in its entirety and tried to pass of rejection of its misleading passages as heretical.
So yes, Sacred Scripture is the speech of God which is why when documents deviate from the clarity of the gospels they should be questioned/clarified. Or are you only assuming that that which is a different gospel will limit itself to dressing as an Angel of Light, DOTTIE?
That’s a good question, Abeca…what did I convert into? For one thing, our hearts are converted everyday, no? I attend what you would call a N.O. Church where I’m the only person who doesn’t take Communion in the hand. Every so often I drive an hour away to attend a TLM and I’m grateful I have access to authentic worship. I just do not see the disconnect at all if someone has access to an SSPX Church, I see them part of Christ’s Body…and when I think of some of the grievous things I’ve seen happening in NO churches I can’t possibly imagine anything more shocking and apart from Church teaching…and that is what should be concerning you….those lukewarm Catholics who are being led straight to Hell! You’ve set yourself up as judge and jury as to who is Catholic and who is not, Abeca. I don’t envy you. That’s a lot of weight on those little shoulders. That’s why Jesus said to let Him do it…His yoke is light.
Such hypocrisy Dana…
dana states: “You’ve set yourself up as judge and jury as to who is Catholic and who is not,” Not at all Dana….the church has already declared by its Doctors of the church, by the CCC, by scripture…we are only echoing what the church teaches and correcting those who want to spread schism and heresy, gossip and slander. Just like what you protect with your own assumptions. You are selling moral relativism! I only follow the one true apostolic Holy Catholic church in union with Rome.
And just because I wanted to know where u stand it is only because you are defending bad behaviors from those in schism, that is why I question your integrity. So no need for envy, those comments you make are all irrelevant and only show your pride because you refuse to answer with clarity and truth, you prefer to make it about how Abeca appears…The church has already spoken about the stand on the SSPX and you keep ignoring those important elements of the truth and the root of sin and evil. You do not know the hearts of people Dana, you say they will go straight to hell, how do you know? Are you God? Ever heard of conversion? You can judge a persons integrity and their current bad will but you can not for definite state that they will go to hell, YOU ARE NOT GOD. you judge me as being a judge of who is Catholic, when I only echo what the church has taught me, yet you feel the need to judge who will end up in hell. I am grateful for God’s mercy, because it is He who knows and not us…we are just here to trust in Jesus and His promises…the rest, we fight the good fight and be doers of His word…..not condoning any evil, even from people like you who think you know it all by the ill informed statements made against the truth and Christ’s Rock, the Magesterium.
Dana, there is no such thing as a NO Church. It is a Catholic Church. What is wrong with taking Communion in the hand? It is an approved practice; indeed it was the practice of the early Christians. Taking communion on the tongue has no more merit and if you are becoming prideful and thinking yourself better than the other people in Church because of it, you are losing merit and offending Jesus.
The SSPX itself is an organization that is not a part of the Catholic Church. The priests of the SSPX are in mortal sin and are excommunicated. They are suspended and if a Catholic priest who is suspended says a public Mass, they incur an automatic excommunication.
Lukewarmness occurs in individuals. It is a serious spiritual disorder. It cannot be even treated in the independent Churches because they do not have the Sacrament of Reconciliation. Abeca is trying to help people who have been misled by wolves in sheep’s clothing. Please talk to a Catholic priest. If the TLM you have been attending is a licit one, go for it. If it is SSPX or independent and you received communion there, you should confess before recieving Communion in the Catholic Church.
Praying for you. Love and peace. Happy Easter
Next Sunday is Mercy Sunday. If you confess your sins and receive Holy Communion on that Sunday, all the temporal punishments for your sins are remitted. It is a great Mercy that Jesus has given through His Church. There is also a plenary indulgence that you can offer for the souls in Purgatory as well.
Dana that is why I warned you before to be careful to what friends you make. If you follow Ann, Steve and Catherine, its no wonder you keep asking yourself “what did I convert into?”
The faith is a gift Dana and you should not allow schismatics and heretics define it for you. And I am not only speaking of the regulars here either…..I am speaking in general, schismatics and heretics come from within and out of holy Mother church. Listen to MIKE, PETE etc…they quote beautifully from the CCC and scripture, if people where more faithful to learning their faith, even you, you would not welcome views from schismatics and heretics, you would hurt knowing that they are the root of what is ailing our church but know that we have Jesus promises to us and He knows who His traitors are…..Trust in Him PAX Christi
You are not echoing what the Church teaches, Abeca. You intimated that the CCC 847 regarding the potential salvation of those in invicible ignorance is some form of heresy (…perhaps because you do not understand the teaching.) That and you are taking a presumptive position in declaring heretic and schismatic those whom even Rome does not declare as such.
Who are you?
A member of the laity? Or a presumptuous zealot without the requisite knowledge and/or understanding to apply the CCC properly as evidenced by your absurd intimation that CCC 847 is heretical. You may think you are aiding the Church, but in reality, you’re steeping a paranoia based on a complete lack of understanding and proper information
Perhaps YOU should just trust in Him and understand that others are doing precisely the same. Your interpretation of beautiful quotation is not precisely accurate… as your understanding of what constitutes the Faith does not in any way encompass the full teaching of the Church – that is the Church, not just the Church since you were born.
The more faithful one becomes in learning the Faith, Abeca, the more clearly one understands that VII represented a dramatic shift from what the Church has actually taught since Her inception.
Anonymous, receiving communion in the hand became approved by way of a foisted abuse on the faithful – much like yoga Stations of the Cross are an abuse. So what you advocate is a methodology of obtaining “approval” by way of exercising abuses until the authority is pushed to the hard spot of allowing it. That said, I cannot understand what your beef then is with the SSPX for all they are about is sticking to what the Church has always taught. But that’s one “abuse” that nobody can/will tolerate.
That said, your focus on merit regarding which practice is better or not is rather mercenary. It’s not always a question of wanting to merit and/or gain more, Anonymous, but rather that of being generous with the Lord out of love for Him and the desire to promulgate the love/devotion that He deserves by way of outward signs – such as the faithful’s kneeling to receive Him.
The shallowness of your post and the assumed motivations and/or explanations of what is “allowed” is telling. Sad, too.
Ann Malley, taking communion in the hand is not abuse. It is the original way that communion was taken in the early Church.
And don’t make me laugh-the SSPX does not stick to what the Church always taught.
The idea of merit is not mercenary. You should learn the Faith better. I can’t believe someone who leaves the Lord where He stays of His Own Will and goes where He remains in hostage is so concerned with being generous with the Lord.
You can call me and abeca and whoever all the insults you want. As long as someone is in a schismatic state, nothing they do has any merit. That is the Faith as it has always been taught.
The SSPX do a lot worse than put up pictures of the stations with yoga poses. So do you.
“…taking communion in the hand is not abuse. It is the original way that communion was taken in the early Church.”
What you wrote here says all there is about the depth of your understanding of the Catholic Faith. I understand that you believe yourself to be sincere so I won’t laugh. But you and Abeca should do some serious study before setting out to right the Catholic world.
Ann Malley, just because something is on the Internet does not make it a reliable source.
But one of your sources, in the comments sections support that communion in the hand was the practice of the early Church.
And I don’t want to bicker with you about my understanding of the Catholic Faith. You have been asked repeatedly by many other people to use authentic Catholic sources.
Anybody can not like a decision made by the hierarchy. Faithful Catholics obey just like Jesus did of His earthly parents, the religious and secular authorities and His Father.
If the only way you can promote your self and soothe your wounded narcissism is to create a false persona for another and then degrade it, we all should just pray for you.
Oops. I messed up. Nobody really needs to hear that. Too harsh. Sorry. There is nothing I can say anymore because it has just gotten too bad and too sad. Except…
Abeca is a good Catholic. She prays and studies more than most Catholics do. She has advanced in the time I have seen her posts.
People see things from their own points of view and that point of view changes every day if they are learning and growing. Faithful Catholics try to see things from God’s point of view by being faithful to the Church in all things.
God bless all and correct all of our faults.
Ecumenical Councils are those to which the bishops, and others entitled to vote, are convoked from the whole world (oikoumene) under the presidency of the pope or his legates, and the decrees of which, having received papal confirmation, bind all Christians.
Vatican II is an ecumenical council of the Catholic Church.
Vatican II is not an issue for Catholics. It is an issue for some fringe Catholics.
Yes, Dana, it is true: when the N.O. types start calling people schismatics,, heretics, liars, and other awful smear-dujour’s, I have refused to take them seriously and (to be accurate) called them “Novus Ordo Ducks”. I stand accused: and they are quacking ducks: always the same rejoinder: SSPX, quack-quack!! Herr-etics, quack-quack!! Schis-maaaat-ics, quack-quack!!
No, I don’t take you, seriously “Spirit of Vatican II” Novus Ordo Ducks, because your name calling is sinful, my names are in fact merely ludicrous. Go and sulk over it.
Schismatic and heretic are descriptions not accusations.
CCC Incredulity is the neglect of revealed truth or the willful refusal to assent to it. “Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him.”
Correction: Steve is upset with the words schismatics and heretics just like the homosexuals hate the word sodomite. Sodomites, schismatics and heretics are all real word describing what the church tends to convey through its teachings about them. Now Steve uses his own verbiage like Ducks quauck , Novus Ordiians etc which are not even biblical nor in the CCC nor in the verbiage from the saints. That tells you a lot. They are argue like the liberals when they can’t have their way, so they amount to made up words for name calling.
Thank you Dana! While many of our bishops were bending over backwards to enable the Democratic party of death and protect illegal immigration in the name of social justice, they were failing the flocks in their own U.S. backyards who were viciously being devoured by wolves in sheep clothing. How ironic that hundreds of faithful Catholics all over the United States had to FLEE to Mexico to receive the sacrament of Confirmation because of the heterodoxy taught in local parishes. This apostolic work in Mexico was done through the spiritual direction of The Servant of God, Father John Hardon a Jesuit who was also persecuted by his own order. Many errors were being taught in school programs and CCD programs. When the faithful would speak up and say “That is not what the Catholic Church teaches.” The response was always “That changed with Vatican II” . Those are not the faithful’s words. Those are the exact words of wolves in sheep clothing who did deliberately hijack many of the clear teachings that have been taught throughout Church history. If Bishop Athanasius Schneider can be honored for asking for clarifications of ambiguities then the faithful are not wrong for asking their shepherds to show stronger leadership in making these clarifications. There is a definite need for our bishops to clarify and defend specific teachings but as Rodney wrote, many are compromised.
The “Spirit of Vatican II” (Yves Congar), the New Evangelization, culminates in the “Fruits of Vatican II” :
“Despite the fact the New Evangelization has been an ongoing emphasis by the Catholic Church for over forty years, it has failed to stem the disastrous losses of the faithful in the U.S. Since 2000, 14 million Catholics have left the faith, parish religious education participation of children has dropped by 24%, Catholic school attendance has dropped by 19%, baptisms of infants has dropped by 28%, baptism of adults has dropped by 31% and sacramental Catholic marriages have dropped by 41%. Something is desperately wrong with the Church’s approach to the New Evangelization.” – Catholic World Report, Apr 9, 2015.
Catholic World Report is not an SSPX nor “sedesva-caaaahn-tist” publication but an eminently mainlilne Catholic publication by Fr. Joseph Fessio and others.
Others who want to see how bad the hemorrhaging is in the Church and trace it to its source need to read the Mar. 2003 article (Latin Mass Magazine, originally) “Index of Leading Catholic Indicators: The Church Since Vatican II,” by Kenneth C. Jones. Jones, a lawyer, traces the collapse of membership, religious order numbers and priesthood, inexorably back to its source: Vatican Council II and its “Spirit”.
One other thing: The Catholic Church was flourishing before Vatican II. We have the testimony of John XXIII on this matter himself (Ap. Const., Humanae Salutis), acknowledging : “‘The Church of Christ, which is still so vibrant with vitality today…” (Dec. 25,1961.) To claim it was rife with the paganism then that is accelerating its invasion of the Church today, as though these are innocent “cultural traditions”, is utter nonsense.
So now we have a Church with attendance and membership world-wide in free fall, and persons cannot conclude what has catalyzed this change? We are told “the Church always had heresies and schisms”—as justification for the present disaster? We are told “you can’t blame Vatican II for the actions of individual priests and bishops”—the very ones who consistently cite some of the Vatican II excerpts—of course selectively, that’s the point, V2’s writings are rife with ambiguity—to justify their actions? You can’t connect this with the Hindu ritual dances performed at Wurzburg Cathedral (Germany) in 2008, or at Lourdes in 2005, or the Hindu service at Fatima (2004)? So “Yoga-Stations-of-the-Cross” are just another innocent diversion for bored post-moderns?
And all you can do is name-call and smear the observers? Fine.
We will accept that as an explicit admission of the truth: Vatican II’s spirit has been a pervasive disaster for the Church (my phraseology), as Canisius initially averred.
1. A Catholic does not fulfill his Sunday obligation at a Society Mass.
2. Confessions by Society priests are invalid.
3. Marriages performed by Society priests are invalid.
We’re not just saying illicit here, we’re saying invalid.
Also you can read more about it from Catholics who are in full Communion and who have done their research. Its about saving souls and we have a moral duty to share the truth, to those who seek it.
Well such is life…..all her long comments, I didn’t bother to read…..its a waste of my time, especially since she does not nothing but speak falsehood against another etc etc…..Catherine God have mercy on your soul for this bad will that you have, that does not get corrected but I place you in God’s hands because the time will come when you will be corrected. Your witness was once a beautiful one but now, its a dark and full of confusion because you detract from the truth that is tried often here to be conveyed.Folks we have a huge battle in our hands, and as you can see, it will take a miracle to heal and make corrections in our church because many will intervene and stop it, just like Catherine and others here who keep slandering those who are faithful to Christi’s church and His promises. But who cares, its part of life and the cross we have to carry. PAX Christi
Abeca, you’re just writing a little post on a website, and frankly I think you’re going off the deep end. Obsessed, actually. I’m mentally blocking your posts from now on. I don’t have the patience of Catherine, Ann or Steve to take the time to get into an unpleasant harrangue with you…but I will just say you’re showing absolutely no Christian charity and the fruits of your truly unkind remarks are going to turn people away from you. I prayed for you tonight and will continue to do so. “Love one another as I have loved you”
Just like YOGA is not approved nor is SSPX:
” The fact that the Society of Saint Pius X does not possess a canonical status in the Church is not, in the end, based on disciplinary but on doctrinal reasons.
As long as the Society does not have a canonical status in the Church, its ministers do not exercise legitimate ministries in the Church.
There needs to be a distinction, then, between the disciplinary level, which deals with individuals as such, and the doctrinal level, at which ministry and institution are involved.
In order to make this clear once again: until the doctrinal questions are clarified, the Society has no canonical status in the Church,
and its ministers – even though they have been freed of the ecclesiastical penalty – do not legitimately exercise any ministry in the Church. ” – Pope Benedict XVI,
March 10, 2009.
Please, Abeca, try to find the policy that bans Yoga Stations of the Cross. And please try to quote the official word of Francis banning Yoga Stations of the Cross.
That’s the problem for the issue in this thread is yoga within the Catholic Church – and now to such a degree that Our Lord, during His most sacred and sorrowful passion, made to look like some yogi figure. Why? So that people will “feeeeel” more.
You may not have any real issue with this. That is you can toot the horn of what exorcists say in warning – but YOU CANNOT FIND ANY OFFICIAL STATEMENTS forbidding this type of behavior. That is the problem, Abeca, something you refuse to grasp. But perhaps if you did, you could and would join forces with others and petition the Vatican to BE CLEAR and end this nonsense.
These things always go on way too long.
People just get stupid in their bickering.
Ann Malley, all actions regarding Catholic LITERGY and Rubrics must be approved by both the Diocese Bishop, and the Vatican if it is different than what is published/ already approved.
V II Document – “Sacrosanctum Concilium” #22.1, 22.3
Please provide a link to any official Church document whereby YOGA is approved for the Stations of the Cross.
Two or three Churches in the USA does not mean it is an extensive practice.
The Vatican may not even know about it. If it were not for a few of these articles most of us would not know about it.
Further Ann Malley, did you personally write to the Vatican with a copy to the US Papal Nuncio telling them exactly what is going on ?
Further Ann Malley, did you personally write to both the Abp of LA, and the Bishop of Seattle about what is happening in their Diocese ?
You are confused if anyone intimated this was an extensive practice, Beth. But abuses in general are. Perhaps you should write instead to the proper authority and ask them how this abuse came into being and/or ask the more direct question: ask the legitimate authority if *they* consider yoga Stations of the Cross an abuse. And stick with it, Beth, until you get a CLEAR and precise answer. Then, please, post it!
That would be helpful. Especially when combating the following:
So while you chasten about letter writing, keep in mind that much of the writing is only to take a count of how many sheep are against the experimentation. A headcount, Beth, of disapproval. Like taking a temperature. Not the means to determine whether or not the parish is sick, Beth. Rome knows that already… and has for quite some time which is one reason why there’s the incessant experimentation. Attempting to find something that will work in reviving the poor souls, when the Faith is right there all along. But the fact that it isn’t novel and different and wow seems to be the only reason why those who should refuse to pick it back up.
People make mistakes Ann Malley.
You seem to be one of those people who exploit people’s mistakes for your own evil ends.
Ann Malley, how do you know so much about the interior workings of a Church you don’t even go to?
Taking a headcount? How inane?
Stop inventing things.
Actually, Ann Malley, is there any document in the SSPX that forbids Yoga Stations of the Cross? In the Pre-Vatican II era Church? In Orthodox Churches? Really, you are saying that the whole Roman Catholic Church is not the true church because it has no explicit regulation about how the Stations of the Cross are to be portrayed or carried out? Really?
Why would you question the Church being the true Church, YFC? Nobody has intimated as much save yourself. I’m shocked at your intimation.
But you certainly seem delighted that that which was clear teaching before VII has now become muddled to allow for abuses…. it’s that same muddled mentality that is anticipated as being fruitful come October ’15 by the same crowd embracing Yoga Stations.
Push, push, push until it becomes the norm. Really.
There was a teaching about Yoga stations of the cross before Vatican II? Please provide the citation.
I truly have no idea what the SSPX has to do with this discussion, except to serve as a boogeyman for the problems in the Catholic Church today.
Campion then open your eye’s…..the schismatics here use verbiage like The spirit of V2 crap so yes this has a lot to do with the problematic situation that the SSPX have caused…you want to know the root, then read the whole thread before you make that comment again. your boogyman analogy just detracts from the real issues that schism and heresy have caused within and out of the church!
Methinks “Catharine’s witness.. became dark and full of confusion” to someone when Catherine refused to quack in unison with the Mother Duck.. Somehow V2 types get wigged out if we don’t see things THEIR way…
Steve Phoenix, you must be a Sedevacantist or a heretic – if you are Catholic at all.
Referring to the Catholic Church as “Mother Duck” is proof.
You are not an authority within the Catholic Faith. Based upon your posts, all you do is complain about EVERYTHING that you personally disagree with to cause dissention.
Your personal opinions mean nothing.
You personally HATE the Ordinary Form of the Mass. And you HATE Catholics who prefer this Form – with your constant put downs.
Beth, you must be an enabler, completely blind, or ignorant of the Faith. Based on your posts you care nothing for the health and well being of Mother Church, but rather seek the idealogue’s goal of promoting how right they are only to disregard the fox inside the hen house.
Your ascribing HATE to others who have expressed nothing of the kind only tells of your own hate and not being able to critically address real issues.
If you think there weren’t problems in the Church before Vatican II you should read this by Pius IX.
It is kind of funny because people who do yoga or practice the spirituality that goes with it would probably have a much easier time accepting you and your beliefs and your methods of communicating your beliefs and degrading others who don’t agree with you than a Catholic would.
However as faithful Catholics, even though we know that there is a God who punishes behavior like this, we are called to pray for Him to have mercy on you and on us.
Being led astray is one thing. Treating people contrary to the religion that you claim you follow is something else all together.
Ann Malley, you said you attend SSPX Masses.
SSPX Priests have no legitimate ministry within the Catholic Church.
As you know, these have no canonical status in the Catholic Church, and their Priests do not exercise any legitimate ministry within the Catholic Church.
You should not be telling Faithful Catholics what to do, since you clearly are not a Faithful Catholic.
Per Letter to All Bishops of the Catholic Church – from POPE BENEDICT XVI, March 2009, and posted on the Vatican web site:
QUOTE: ” In order to make this clear once again: until the doctrinal questions are clarified, the Society has no canonical status in the Church,
and its ministers – even though they have been freed of the ecclesiastical penalty – do not legitimately exercise any ministry in the Church. ”
It seems Ann Malley that you are merely trying to draw others into your sinfulness and away from the TRUE Church established by Christ.
If you ever were a Faithful Catholic – you are a heretic now.
Beth, you are drawing your own erroneous conclusions regarding what I am about based on your own fears of what you think you know. So capitalizing true isn’t going to make the reality that VII documents are being used to facilitate yoga etc inside the Church disappear. And neither is blaming anyone else.
Look to your own “sinfulness” of acting out of ideology instead of Faith and understanding precisely what that means. If you exercised your due diligence when it comes to actually learning the Faith instead of merely memorizing what it says, you may prove a useful vessel. You could evangelize those who should be drawn to what the Catholic Church actually teaches – not your hollow rhetoric that cannot even explain the ongoing crisis in her own Church.
Vatican II documents are not being used to facilitate yoga inside the Church.
Beth at least listens to the Church and the Pope and does not invent her own version of Catholicism and then use some fantasy to justify it.
I really am sick of watching you insult and provoke the faithful.
Beth will get her reward for standing up to you and your false ecclesiology.
May God restore you to sanctifying grace and protect all his people from your errors.
You know, Stockholm Syndrome is not uncommon in members of cults and you really exhibit the symptoms.
SSPX is spiritual death yet you antagonize those who try to help Jesus to save your soul from their poison..
You may be loyal to them because you feel that they have saved you from the corruption of the post Vatican II Catholic Church just like cult members feel grateful to their charismatic leaders for saving them from their empty life with their clueless families.
More prayers, everybody. Feast of Mercy today!!!!!