Legislature, governor ignore bishops

Posted Monday, January 02, 2012 3:24 AM By Sarah
People knew how liberal and pro-homosexual Gov. Brown was and they elected him. People continue to elect liberal and pro-homosexual politicians, mainly Democrats, and then complain about the laws they enact. These are the same politicians that continue to spend the state into debt and then say we need higher taxes and fees to pay for it. Think about the candidates you are going to vote into office in the next election. Let’s clean house and not vote for any incumbent.

Posted Monday, January 02, 2012 4:50 AM By RR
This will make Mark from PA’s new year.

Posted Monday, January 02, 2012 5:38 AM By MIKE
This is the continuing destruction of the “FAMILY” in the State of CA. 1) It’s the result of the Bishops not properly teaching the Faith. When people are taught to read and study the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition” (rather than less complete catechisms), which also includes footnote references to the Bible, they form a correct conscience for VOTING. These CA politicians who also support the murder of innocent babies, will continue to advance sinful lifestyles throughout all public institutions. 2) The Bishops need to enforce Canon 915. “Can. 915 Those who have been excommunicated or interdicted after the imposition or declaration of the penalty and others obstinately persevering in manifest grave sin are not to be admitted to holy communion.” Otherwise the Bishops words ring hollow – with Sacrilege and Public Scandal being permitted by them. Each Bishop is in charge of his own Diocese, so there is no excuse of needed compromise.

Posted Monday, January 02, 2012 6:05 AM By BETH
Public SCANDAL demands PUBLIC REPARATION. Are the Bishops going to enforce Canon 915, or just say “oh well”? CCC “2285 Scandal takes on a particular gravity by reason of the authority of those who cause it or the weakness of those who are scandalized. It prompted our Lord to utter this curse: “Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened round his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.” Scandal is grave when given by those who by nature or office are obliged to teach and educate others. Jesus reproaches the scribes and Pharisees on this account: he likens them to wolves in sheep’s clothing.” CCC: “2286 Scandal can be provoked by laws or institutions, by fashion or opinion. Therefore, they are guilty of scandal who establish laws or social structures leading to the decline of morals and the corruption of religious practice, or to “social conditions that, intentionally or not, make Christian conduct and obedience to the Commandments difficult and practically impossible. This is also true of business leaders who make rules encouraging fraud, teachers who provoke their children to anger, or manipulators of public opinion who turn it away from moral values.” CCC: ” 1491 The sacrament of Penance is a whole consisting in three actions of the penitent and the priest’s absolution. The penitent’s acts are repentance, confession or disclosure of sins to the priest, and the intention to make reparation and do works of reparation.”

Posted Monday, January 02, 2012 6:05 AM By Anna
I can now officially see why the prophets say no one on the coast will survive the great Tribulation because the coastal cities have abandoned God’s laws.

Posted Monday, January 02, 2012 6:18 AM By Prof Helen
Gov. Brown whom I have known for over 20 years. He is an EX-Catholic who believes he knows more than the Church on just about EVERYTHING. His true religion is the DEMOCRAT PARTY. The Bishops must become more clear on what the Church’s stance is on moral teachings and stop soft soaping it.

Posted Monday, January 02, 2012 6:52 AM By JLS
The name of the state is changing from California to Calipornia.

Posted Monday, January 02, 2012 7:07 AM By Thomas Edward Miles
Great news, now, when can we get the laws printed in Latin! Happy New Year, far right wing! Be assured, I pray only for best for all of you in, 2012!!

Posted Monday, January 02, 2012 8:02 AM By Camille
Now, perhaps, after years of supporting all Democrat social and education agenda legislation, the Catholic Conference is awakening to the fact that they are no longer needed and are being by-passed by the politicians. Now is the time to begin encouraging the faithful to take a public stand on the issues of moral and parental rights issues. All those new laws taking effect have destroyed the last vestiges of parental involvement with their own children in the areas of education. health, nutrition, job training, physical education, mental health and much more.

Posted Monday, January 02, 2012 8:12 AM By Sawyer
How long will it take for California to undo the damage that leftists have inflicted on the state? Is it worth staying here any longer?

Posted Monday, January 02, 2012 8:17 AM By Gabriel Espinosa 
It is at times like this when we must abandon ourselves totally to the Providence of God and place ourselves fully under His protection.

Posted Monday, January 02, 2012 8:45 AM By JimAroo
We have a Democrat Governor, Democrat Assembly and Senate. As bad as Arnold was he did veto the worst of these bills. One more thing, Bishops, there is nearly not only a Democrat majority but a CATHOLIC one. California politics is dominated by Catholics from the Governor on down. You, the Bishops, have promoted the Democrat party and its agenda for years…. now you want to complain about the fruit of your handiwork.

Posted Monday, January 02, 2012 9:09 AM By JLS
God protects man by encouraging him to use arms, legs, brains, language, attitude, and action.

Posted Monday, January 02, 2012 9:45 AM By Ted
There is apparently a disconnect between the bishops and the faithful, or these laws and those who enacted them would not be a problem. The fault is the bishops. They need to lead, follow or get out of the way – their performance as leaders is abysmal, with few exceptions. The first thing they need to do is to excommunicate the politicians who enacted these abominable laws, then tell the voters how to vote on principle rather than meal tickets. The power to tax and pay for votes with social programs is how California has been set on the path of destruction. One solution that works is to move out of the state – think about it !

Posted Monday, January 02, 2012 10:08 AM By Bud
So what else is new from Hollywood and it’s ilk?. If California would not even support the vote of the people why would these demagogues not ignore all that stand in their way! They should have been impeached and derided for their actions on their own people.

Posted Monday, January 02, 2012 11:07 AM By Abeca Christian
The face of evil created and encouraged by the majority of the people in California. God have mercy on the faithful who have opposed all this!

Posted Monday, January 02, 2012 11:15 AM By Barb
Think of all the tax money (our money) that the government spends to promote and support these immoral programs. We must change our “leaders” who choose to remove God and the natural law from our constitution. We must not just complain but actually join and financially support politically active organizations who lobby for the culture of life. If we were half as politically active as those who choose to pervert God’s laws, we would actually protect life and liberty. Let’s get busy!

Posted Monday, January 02, 2012 11:31 AM By retiredladyann
Time to move out of California. If I had my choice, I’d find the most conservative state, the one most likely to secede from this so-called United States, and begin to pack up. The aim of our elected officials in Washington and in California is to destroy the family, and wreck the USA. They don’t have much farther to go, do they?

Posted Monday, January 02, 2012 12:10 PM By sam
JimAroo et al who complain continuously re the Bishops. We the people of the church as just as much responsibility for what happens in elections and in this state and nation – perhaps more since there is more of us – many more than Bishops. Look to yourself as see what YOU have done to promote Christ except to complain about things.

Posted Monday, January 02, 2012 12:29 PM By Mike
Time for the Priests to start using the bully pulpit. Haven’t heard the word abortion mentioned in over 15 years. Based on sitting through 15 years of Sunday Mass, one would have no idea of the moral teachings of the Church.

Posted Monday, January 02, 2012 1:20 PM By MIKE
Mike, the Priests rarely preach about Mortal sin, Heaven or Hell. That is why we have to educate ourselves with the “CCC 2nd Ed”.

Posted Monday, January 02, 2012 2:23 PM By Mary Ann
I never heard any comments from the pulpit regarding the above-mentioned laws! It is time for our bishops, priests, deacons to SPEAK UP DIRECTLY to the people on a Sunday and not expect them to find all these things by surfing the internet on their own!!! Bishops are too quiet – perhaps that is their intent esp. if they agree with the laws. It is time to eliminate our tax-exempt status and SPEAK UP if anything will ever change!

Posted Monday, January 02, 2012 3:50 PM By Don
These people will need to stand before almighty God one day. Our hope is in the Rosary.

Posted Monday, January 02, 2012 4:08 PM By Larry
I’m tempted to suggest that it may be time for all Christians–and even all good people–to evacuate California. Perhaps an airlift would be in order.

Posted Monday, January 02, 2012 5:32 PM By Abeca Christian
MIKE is right. Larry I wish we were all on the same thoughts as you, count me in as one as agrees with you, it would be an excellent witness to all peoples and it would send out a strong message. If only it would happen! I would prefer we take back California and kick out all who disobey God on serious important issues!

Posted Monday, January 02, 2012 5:48 PM By Michelle in CA
If “Catholics” only show up to church for one hour and do not participate in other ministries of the church, where else would they learn Catholic Social Teaching? The church didn’t teach me. I had to learn it on my own in my 30’s. It opened my eyes. Now I vote differently. It is the uninformed Catholics that vote these people into office to our detriment. The Church needs to find creative ways to make sure that we get some instruction every week. Put pamplets in the pews, or teachings in the bulletin all year long – not just before an election. People need time to digest, understand, and grow to love the beauty of Catholic Social Teaching. However, we cannot sit on the sidelines and wait for our priest or Bishop – get out there and talk to your Catholic friends. Let’s get on it. We have 11 months. And of course, pray, pray, pray.

Posted Monday, January 02, 2012 6:09 PM By Kenneth M. Fisher
I remember when the Bishops of California spoke against something, the elected Officials actually listened! God bless, yours in Their Hearts, Kenneth M. Fisher

Posted Monday, January 02, 2012 6:20 PM By Juergensen
This is what happens when the Faith of the Apostles is filtered through a national episcopal conference. You end up with “Catholic” leaders like Brown, Pelosi, and Kmiec. And 50 million butchered babies.

Posted Monday, January 02, 2012 6:20 PM By Kenneth M. Fisher
Mike, 12:29 PM, I personally know several priests who spoke out on the important moral issues of our day, and they have been if not run out of their repective Dioceses, been put in LIMBO. Some have found it necessary in order to continue their priesthood, to become Independents. The former Chancelor of the Diocese of Orange, Fr. Melito, is one of them. No, Larry, those of us who can must stay and FIGHT! God bless, yours in Their Hearts, Kenneth M. Fisher

Posted Monday, January 02, 2012 7:15 PM By Maryanne Leonard
There is no question that we Catholics need to send our children to Catholic schools now more than ever, or failing that, plan to home school them until they go to college. Our schools are becoming poisoned by the wanton philosophies of the day. If we send our children to public schools, we are ensuring that they will be immersed in this kind of thinking. It is easier than ever to homeschool children effectively and well, and the fortunate children whose parents invest in them in this way actually do better on tests and in college than children who are “educated” in public schools.

Posted Monday, January 02, 2012 9:55 PM By Bakersfield Crusader
Perhaps NOW those who have clung to the Democratic Party will begin to see the light and realize that it has made a wicked turn to the left toward the cliffs? This is no longer our father’s Democratic Party. I was a staunch Democrat until it slowly dawned on me how it has kicked one Catholic value after another to the curb. Hopefully the stragglers in this modern-day Exodus will pick up the pace a bit, now that the Red Sea seems poised to baptize the heathens.

Posted Tuesday, January 03, 2012 6:01 AM By Catherine
Maryanne Leonard, Please! We do need to speak up and hold our Bishops accountable. It is an illusion or fantasy to think that many of our Catholic schools are not already learning this same evil. Parents in Catholic schools have also heard the following from staff and clergy at local Catholic schools. Your being uncharitable. My God is a more loving God than you’re God or..These two men love each other, Who made you Pope? or …The church has opened the doors and changed. Parents have also heard, Mary was probably not a virgin either and we have to teach these kids what to do so they’ll know what to do on their wedding night. (6th grade class). This was reported to the bishop’s office and nothing was done. One of the most well thought of parish schools in our diocese *still* has gay lifestyle supporting staff who have shared with others that they also have issues with certain Church teachings and teachings about purgatory and the Blessed Mother. It is a major disappointment to many Catholics who will not send their children to this school. A housecleaning is needed. Many Catholics saw the letter from the bishop praising a previous pastor for how the pastor handled (allowed) acceptance of the gay lifestyle. There are other schools who also consistently undermine Church teaching by including sex education books that should raise red flags or curl parents toes after the scandals, but it doesn’t. The trusting parents do not bother to pick up a CCC to see if what their children are learning is accurate. Should they pick up a Catechism? You darn right they should but when they hear that the local bishop is copacetic about the issue, then the parents follow. If the schools have the backing of the current bishop to teach children acceptance of the gay lifestyle, then the bishops are accountable for this. I do not think that Archbishop Sheen or Bishop Vaughn would have considered the letter of support to the pastor from the local bishop as a sin of omission either.

Posted Tuesday, January 03, 2012 7:08 AM By Amy
Actions speak louder than words. How many Archbishops, Bishops, priests and politicans will we see at the Walk for Life West Coast on January 21 2012? Thank God for the priests from EWTN and a few other strong Pro Life Priest such as Fr. Fezzio and Fr. Pavone who will be there. Teach by example! We get very little of this from our hierarchy. No more waving at us from the sidelines. No more excuses. Get out their and lead us. It would be refreshing to see our clergy stand up to the Pro abortion politicans in California and San Francisco in particular – that we stand for Life.

Posted Tuesday, January 03, 2012 7:09 AM By lisag
California is going to get worse unless social conservatives get out and vote in the primary. The two candidates who get the most votes will be in the November election. Voters will also be able to cross party lines to vote in the primary. It could happen that there will only be liberal ideologues to vote for in November.

Posted Tuesday, January 03, 2012 7:22 AM By Larry
Kenneth: I’ll take your advice and try to resist the temptation to suggest an airlift. It’s all easy for me to say, perhaps–since I don’t live in California, but my own state of Illinois is only slightly less drastically inclined than California. At any rate, I’ve often written here on the need for priests/religious to obey their superiors (bishops or heads of orders), but I do think the duty of obedience stops when sin is commanded. Were I a priest, and my bishop were to tell me: “Never preach against abortion, contraception or sexual sins–never mention hell or mortal sin–preach only social justice, condemn only Republicans, SUV’s and incandescent lightbulbs”–I should reply, “boss, I didn’t become a priest in order to lose souls. As long as I’ve got a pulpit I’m going to tell the truth, so I guess you’ll have to pull my faculties and run me out of the priesthood, because I can’t follow those orders.” And by the way, why don’t we start running the names of these so-far-unnamed bishops who have allegedly ordered their priests to shut up about mortal sin and the like? Why don’t we start going to bat in specific instances for good priests who’ve been muzzled, instead of just muttering in disgust here “well, I know of a lot of priests who don’t dare say…(etc)?” Maybe we don’t need to know who THEY are, but who are their bishops? Isn’t that part of our layman’s vocation?

Posted Tuesday, January 03, 2012 8:49 AM By k
Larry, self-will is not good in a priest. You are correct in that a priest should not obey an order to sin. The thought that you are describing, though, would be a temptation to a priest-that I know better than my superior. that I can remove myself from the Church and still perform a valid mass so I can have my own Church. Independent churches led by validly ordained priests hold Jesus hostage. They have kidnapped Him; they have hijacked the faith. They are not Catholic churches- they are churches in the Catholic tradition. Their masses are illicit. Yes, you will receive Jesus when you receive communion there but in a way that He does not will.

Posted Tuesday, January 03, 2012 10:24 AM By Larry
K: I would never suggest that a priest perform priestly functions apart from the Church. The principle I laid out must be very narrowly construed to apply only to manifestly sinful orders, not ones which the priest (or we on this site) might find distasteful or wrongheaded, but which are nonetheless legitimate. But if a priest is ordered to never preach on sin, or to give out Holy Communion to people whom he knows are non-Catholics at weddings or funerals, or, say, if he’s told: “we want to be inclusive in this diocese. If one of those Rainbow Sash people comes up to Communion, even if they’re wearing the sash openly, you give them Communion!” then I think the response has to be to disobey and challenge the bishop to act. If the bishop lifts his faculties, then he cannot act as a priest. If there is a canon law appeals process, then the priest must use it, and please God, the Holy See would vacate the bishop’s unlawful action–but if not, the priest must accept the consequences of insubordination, and in the end if he winds up permanently suspended or even laicized, then he must entrust his future to Jesus–but under no circumstances act as a priest independent of the Church. I hope that clarifies things.

Posted Tuesday, January 03, 2012 10:30 AM By MD
RR-I feel that this is a subject Mark from PA is extremely misguided on as he has received poor theology from a few rogue priests and he is struggling with thoughts and feelings that effect his judgment, but I hope your comment is not to make fun of him. I don’t want to assume you are making fun and apologize if you are not, but though I disagree with PA and his ideology, he is still my brother in Christ and I hope the Lord touches him some day to show the true meaning of human sexuality. I am not trying to judge you and I hope I am not coming across that way. Mark is absolutely wrong in his thinking, but he is our brother and loved by the Lord and in my opinion it is our duty to help him home. God Love You.

Posted Tuesday, January 03, 2012 12:08 PM By Catherine
k, Our Lord does not will Catholics to vote for Obama or for Catholics to support a professor who supports a pro death president. Our Lord does not will duplicitous hearts with duplicitous messages. That is called self-will and the hijacking of honesty.

Posted Tuesday, January 03, 2012 3:54 PM By Kenneth M. Fisher
Catherine, 6:01 AM, When you spoke of my late friend and Spiritual Father, Bishop Austin Vaughan, I hope you really meant to say that he would have DEFINITELY considered support of any pastor who condones such abominations as sins of omission. I had many conversations about these things with him up until almost the day he passed on to his Eternal Reward. God bless, yours in Their Hearts, Kenneth M. Fisher

Posted Tuesday, January 03, 2012 4:13 PM By Kenneth M. Fisher
k, Please answer this: What would you say to a priest who has been literally thrown out of his rectory because he refused to compromise on matters of serious sin? I once asked Archbishop Khai that same question in regards to a priest he felt should get regularized when I asked him if he would rather that priest leave the priesthood, and he just looked sadly at me and nodded his head in recognition of the seriousness of the problem. Don’t tell me he should just stay and obey, obey what? In these cases they are put on the shelf so that the “good” bishop won’t have to answer to his liberal influential $$$$$ friends, and they can’t even exericse their priesthood. Read Canon Law on “Faculties by Necessity”. Did you know that in order for a priest to get a transfer to another Diocese, he must get a letter of recommendation from his Bishop, even though that bishop probably hates him. I have discussed the problems with this recommendation necessity with good Bishops and recommended that they make their own decisions in these cases. Either you won’t admit it, or you just don’t know how serious this re-birth of the Protestant Revolution in the Church is.. God bless, yours in Their Hearts, Kenneth M. Fisher

Posted Tuesday, January 03, 2012 4:33 PM By Maryanne Leonard
Catherine, you and I are in accord. I’ve said in previous posts that we do need to speak up and ask more of our bishops who are in error, as well as priests, etc. It is disheartening to see how far from traditional Catholicism so many have strayed, but that comment includes the laity as well. Of course following the teachings of Our Lord as preserved and presented to us by the Holy Roman Catholic Church is not easy, but it is the only road to the eternal salvation of our individual souls. Sharing the faith with others, including having the courage to ask more of any of our bishops, priests, catechists, etc., who are in error, also happens to be the only way to make the world a better place, and I’m all in favor of that. I hope that parents will homeschool children, but I realize many cannot, and Catholic school is the most practical second-best choice. Again, we need to speak out when we see error, and it is all around us these days, including in our Catholic schools and universities, so very sad to say. This is our watch, and it is up to us to change things. Now. Once we’re gone, the impetus may be lost.

Posted Tuesday, January 03, 2012 5:46 PM By k
Larry, thank you for clarifying. I might have read more into your post than you meant. I think you are correct in what you posted.

Posted Tuesday, January 03, 2012 5:49 PM By k
Mr. Fisher, that is a problem. The priest should use all licit means to have justice done. The only priest I know who was “fired” like that went to work for a Catholic charitable agency. He has never tried to be laicized. He does not even attend Mass anymore. I would have hoped his situation could be righted with prayer but he is not interested.

Posted Tuesday, January 03, 2012 6:12 PM By Catherine
Kenneth M. Fisher, I thought you’d have figured that one out but let’s see if the editor allows this. *Writing a letter* that deliberately disobeys Church teaching by praising or promoting others to also scandalize God’s innocent little ones and also disobey Church Teaching is a sin of *commission.* The omission would be on our part if we remain silent and do not help to explain to others that this is absolutely wrong for a bishop to do this.

Posted Tuesday, January 03, 2012 8:54 PM By Catherine
Maryanne Leonard, Thank you for your 4:33 PM post! “O, how everything that is suffered with love is healed again! We will not reach perfection in the love of neighbor if that love does not rise from love of God as its root.” St. Teresa of Avila

Posted Tuesday, January 03, 2012 8:58 PM By k
Mr. Fisher, What would I say to a priest who has been literally thrown out of his rectory because he refused to compromise on matters of serious sin? I would say “Blessed are you! Do you need a place to stay?” Mr. Fisher, one is to trust God in all circumstances. Temptations are tempting; they come to us as a justification to do what we want rather than what God wants. It is not just the wanton sinners who are tempted. Temptations of the just come in different forms. A temptation to leave the church comes to almost everyone- in my admittedly limited experience. Sometimes people leave the church thinking they are doing what is pleasing to God or even what He wills. Padre Pio when he was suspended said “May the will of God be done.” Often, God tests us. Obedience allows a person to perform at a level higher than their own understanding. One must trust God. Nothing happens in the Church or in the world that God is unaware of. Distrust of self is the first step in spiritual combat. Every one of us falls for temptations. That is why we pray often everyday. “Thy will be done.” “Lead us not into temptation.” “Deliver us from evil.”

Posted Tuesday, January 03, 2012 9:34 PM By k
Catherine, I know that you have not had the trial yet and I forgive you for your misperceptions.

Posted Tuesday, January 03, 2012 11:29 PM By Abeca Christian
Prayer St. Catherine of Alexandria Virgin and martyr: Glorious Saint Catherine, virgin and martyr, help me to imitate your love of purity. Give me strength and courage in fighting off the temptations of the world and evil desires. Help me to love God with my whole heart and serve Him faithfully. O Saint Catherine, through your glorious martyrdom for the love of Christ, help me to be loyal to my faith and my God as long as I live. AMEN Pray for us and pray for California and for it’s conversion of all sinners in Jesus name we pray. AMEN! God stop Mr. Brown and help us win California back as we pray for the conversion of it’s sinners and for those in power. May the faithful Christians of this state unite and win back California for Christ! AMEN!

Posted Tuesday, January 03, 2012 11:33 PM By Abeca Christian
Saint Catherine of Alexandria was one of the saints whose voice was heard by Joan of Arc. This saint is not one that is talked much about but she appeared before and has been known through methods more. She was said to have converted many non-believers. We can pray for this Saint to intercede for California.

Posted Tuesday, January 03, 2012 11:46 PM By Abeca Christian
Make way, make way, and lets shout “move Mr. Brown and all those evil politicians in charge who are destroying California and its people. Leave! GO elsewhere for you are not welcome here! Take with you all who are condoning and encouraging your pagan work!” Oh agony oh agony, how lost you have deemed your soul, how dark a place! Make haste make haste before it;s too late for you. Seek the light and turn away from your evil ways, stop enabling the sinners who have placed you to promote their evil agenda’s. We are but slaves to your agendas but Jesus will/has set us free and you will soon see your prize for your disobedience! God have mercy on us all and on the men who stood by and did nothing to stop this monstrous leadership, of should we say may the the conversion of those who have given power to this pagan leadership, be a reality soon and may they turn away from sin!

Posted Wednesday, January 04, 2012 12:11 PM By Abeca Christian
k what did you mean by your comments to Catherine? Just asking because I got lost. I looked up and didn’t understand where the beginning of that thread began or what it was about?

Posted Wednesday, January 04, 2012 1:59 PM By jonJ
I do find myself puzzled by a few things on this list. Why do the bishops object to laws requiring school officials to take action if they see LGTB students getting bullied? Is this not consistent with catholic doctrine? Or, are the bishops saying homosexuals deserve to be ridiculed, humiliated, threatened, and beaten in the public schools. I can understand the Church does not wish to condone gay advocacy. But, when we oppose measures consistent with catholic emcyclicals, are we not simply giving credibility to those who claim that the Church hates homosexuals? The editor replies: The bill to which you refer was NOT included in our list of measures opposed by the bishops. It fell under a distinct, separate heading, “Other measures taking effect in 2012 include…” Sorry if we were not clear.

Posted Wednesday, January 04, 2012 2:05 PM By Abeca Christian
jonj you are puzzled it is apparent by your comments and questions, more like confused. Why should there be special treatment of sexual appetites? No one should be bullied period! Stop with special treatment of disordered sexual preferences, especially since they are sinful! The church is to lead those towards sanctifying grace, not to defend special treatment of sinful choices! Plus in today’s times, it is the Christians who are bullied! Not the other way around! Times have changed jonj have you noticed, family values are no longer a priority!

Posted Wednesday, January 04, 2012 4:24 PM By Abeca Christian
“A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My Statutes, and ye shall keep My Judgments, and do them… Without Me ye can do nothing” (Ezekiel 36:26-27; John 15:5).

Posted Wednesday, January 04, 2012 4:28 PM By k
abeca, I think Catherine was leaking from another thread. I was referring to a phase that follows the zealous phase-I know that you have experienced at least some of it-from something that you posted before about how you had to stop your ministry to homosexual persons. I am concerned about her but I know that our Lord and our Lady will be there for her. The saints say that when God seems the most distant, He is actualy the most near. Obedience is the key. Devotion to your Guardian is very helpful, but easliy forgotten. She may not be heading there but the things she posts have me wondering. The Lord will guide her. She says that I confuse her. I don’t mean to.

Posted Wednesday, January 04, 2012 7:17 PM By Kenneth M. Fisher
k, That is exactly why God had the clause on “Supplied Faculties” placed into His Church’s Canon Law! St. Padre Pio was a Religious and as such had different vows than a Secular; however even he would not obey his superiors in SIN, and to not preach against sin because your bishop told you not to is SIN .”We become obedient to the Church and her officials only when we become obedient to the constant teaching of the Church as taught by the Magisterium throughout the ages. If what is taught by an appointed servant of God is contrary to Church Teaching, they are not to be obeyed but even publicly rebuked as they no longer speak on behalf of the Church.” Titus (1:10) “All disciplinary authority, all obedience to a bishop presupposes the pure teaching of the Holy Church. Obedience to a bishop is grounded in complete faith in the teachings of the Holy Church. As soon as the ecclesiastical authority yields to pluralism in question of faith it has lost the right to claim obedience.” Professor Dietrich von Hildebrand, The Devastated Vineyard (Chicago 1973) pp 3-5 “Where there is danger to the faith prelates must be rebuked, even publicly by subjects. Thus, St. Paul who was subject to St.Peter, rebuked him publicly.” St. Thomas Aquinas, Commentary on the Epistle to the Galations God bless, yours in Their Hearts, Kenneth M. Fisher

Posted Wednesday, January 04, 2012 8:15 PM By Abeca Christian
k I don’t know what you are talking about. Yes I have stopped my ministry to homosexuals. I have my reasons but I still try to speak the truth on their activism and their evil lifestyles!

Posted Thursday, January 05, 2012 7:41 AM By k
Mr fisher, can you give me the numbers of what you refer to. I can find nothing in Canon law on Supplied Faculties or Faculties in Necessity. I like your quotes in your 7:17 post. I think that when you have taken a vow to obey your bishop, you must obey him in all matters that are not sin. None of the people you quoted would support a priest starting his own church. Canon Law says that parishes can only be erected by a bishop. I think it is good to remember the priests who are being treated unjustly in our prayers.

Posted Thursday, January 05, 2012 9:15 AM By k
abeca, OK maybe you don’t know yet. It is about the paths of spiritual growth.

Posted Thursday, January 05, 2012 11:24 AM By Abeca Christian
Titus 3:3 “For we ourselves also were some time unwise, incredulous, erring, slaves to divers desires and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another” May our Lord heal us of such things, so that we can walk with Christ and turn away from sin and be mindful of one another, with true charity. Not indirectly assuming malice and worst of one another but truly growing in the path in which our Lord has chosen for us. AMEN! Lets continue to fight the good fight. St. Catherine of Alexandria pray for us!

Posted Thursday, January 05, 2012 1:10 PM By JonJ
I reread the article and I can see what the editors means. However, given the overall negative tone of the article about the legislation in question, I took the separate category to mean that these were further (less important) issues not approved by the CCC. I’m glad you cleared that up.

Posted Thursday, January 05, 2012 1:28 PM By JonJ
Abeca, I don’t buy your “special rights” argument. That seems to me a justification to ignore cruelty to homosexuals. The fact is, despite the almost approving culture on college campuses and in mainstream media, homosexuals are openly mocked and ridiculed at most middle-schools and high-schools. It was that way at my all-male catholic high school, and I know that its that way at my nephews’ schools today. My younger nephew had a 8th grade “girlfriend” who wanted aggressive “make out” sessions. I asked my nephew if she wanted sex, and he said “no, but it was heading in that direction”, so he broke up with her. She got mad, and started spreading rumors all around his grade school, and later his high school, that he was gay. Since he also sang for the Tucson Boys Chorus (sort of a Vienna boys choir-lite), which is ofter disparaged in crass local circles as the Tucson Gay Men’s Chorus, he was an easy target. When you have bullying that is generally tacitly approved on an intuitive level out in the “real world”, it is frequently ignored by teachers, administrators and other authority figures in “non-official” contexts. In my nephew’s case, I remember picking him up from grade school and hearing him openly mocked as “gay” in the school courtyard. For me, when you have a problem that is mostly ignored in practice, particular rules are appopriate. Its simply a practical matter of trying to solve obvious problems. I happen to think changing this culture is necessary because it communicates that ridicule, abuse, and humiliation is the proper way to treat others. This bashing culture damages the people hurling the insults as much as anyone else. I certainly do not think it is at all consistent with Christian values.

Posted Thursday, January 05, 2012 1:41 PM By k
abeca, Amen.

Posted Thursday, January 05, 2012 5:26 PM By Maryanne Leonard
JonJ, you are right that our culture has not completely abandoned disapproving of homosexuality, and we all know that teenagers insult other teenagers and even adults by calling them “gay” as loudly and as frequently as possible even if they are not gay, which must be unnerving and might even cause some teenagers to question themselves or at least how they appear to others. You are also right in feeling that our culture is fully capable of bashing homosexuals, and I might point out, old people, fat people, unattractive people, unintelligent people, those with disabilities, etc., etc., all of which is absolutely unacceptable and completely inconsistent with our Christian values. While we are right to love the sinner, let’s not forget the part about hating the sin, and encouraging those who actually are sinning to move on to more righteous pathways. Homosexuals differ from members of the other groups I listed in that they choose to sin, whereas being old, ugly, etc., is a matter outside of one’s purview and certainly not sin, and as a result, are a lot more likely to be ridiculed by teenagers who find homosexuality disturbing, disgusting, and dishonorable. I do agree with you, however, that bashing of any kind is not Christian and further state that no one is helped out of sin by being bashed, but rather, by being cherished as a fellow human being who needs sincerely caring help, if they are but willing to accept it, which sadly, most are not. On the contrary, homosexuals as a group are becoming increasingly aggressive against the rest of us, which is causing them to be disrespected, disdained, and disliked all the more, a sad state of affairs indeed. They make sure we are seen as their enemies, the opponent, to be overcome by verbal and political force. Let us pray. Both homosexuals and heterosexuals can certainly do much, much better than we are presently doing, all to the glory of God.

Posted Thursday, January 05, 2012 10:18 PM By Abeca Christian
Bravo Maryanne Leonard!!!

Posted Thursday, January 05, 2012 10:23 PM By Abeca Christian
jonj that is fine you don’t have to buy it, for it is not for sale and it is a known fact amongst many of us who know the the sales pitch of gay activism! JonJ bullying should not be accepted period! But to give special treatment to so called “gay” people, is a ticket to disaster. That is all I have to say. I sympathize with what you just said but no I don’t think we see eye to eye. But you do agree with me when I say that we should not tolerate bullying to any person or persons. Right? I hope so.

Posted Thursday, January 05, 2012 11:19 PM By Kenneth M. Fisher
Why should anyone be surprised when Moonbeam and his cronies ignore the bishops? They know the bishops will not really do anything about their errant ways! God bless, yours in Their Hearts, Kenneth M. Fisher

Posted Friday, January 06, 2012 4:26 AM By MIKE
Regarding homosexuality and the treatment of homosexual persons, see: CCC 2357, 2358, 2359. Also on the Vatican web site see: “Letter to the BISHOPS of the CATHOLIC CHURCH on the PASTORAL CARE of HOMOSEXUAL PERSONS which includes in #15 – “No authentic pastoral programme will include organizations in which homosexual persons associate with each other without clearly stating that homosexual activity is immoral. A truly pastoral approach will appreciate the need for homosexual persons to avoid the near occasions of sin.” Lastly, please see: Rom 1″24-27; 1 Cor 6:10; 1 Tim 1:10. If we love our neighbors as directed by Jesus, we will want them all to get to heaven for eternity. – One of the ‘Spiritual Works of Mercy’ is to “Admonish Sinners”. CCC: “2396 Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity are masturbation, fornication, pornography, and homosexual practices.” – grave sins are MORTAL SINS.

Posted Friday, January 06, 2012 5:14 AM By RR
JonJ: Your nephew should definitely not be teased, BUT, why is your brother or sister allowing an 8th grader to have any sort of contact with this girl or any other girl for that matter? He is WAY to young for this. I consider your brother or sister neglectful in their parental duties. I am NOT being cruel or judgemental here, but the real abuse is the parents for allowing their son to be in this situation in the first place. This is how I see it with the information given here. Tell me if I am wrong.

Posted Friday, January 06, 2012 5:24 AM By RR
JonJ: I might add that I hope that you told your nephew what he was doing with this makeout girl was impure and a mortal sin.

Posted Friday, January 06, 2012 8:25 AM By Michelle in CA
People! People! Brothers and Sisters! What will you pledge to do to ensure the politicians that enacted these laws are not re-elected?! Here are some suggestions: 1. Talk to your family and friends about voting with an informed conscience. 2. Keep up with proposed new legislation and call your State Legislators to voice your disapproval – squelch bad laws before they are enacted. 3. Actively work to elect good people to the legislature. 4. Make phone calls, stuff envelopes, walk a precinct for your candidate. 5. Offer to put a yard sign for good candidates – remember, these bad politicians have their own armies of volunteers. 6. Support the work of solid, faithful Catholic organizations so they don’t have to rely on gov’t money and the dirty strings attached to those dollars. 7. If the Bishop asks that faithful Catholics contact their legislators about an issue, make sure the information gets into your parish bulletins. ***** Now let’s get out there and help change the face of our legislature!

Posted Friday, January 06, 2012 10:06 AM By k
JonJ, my nephew is being trashed on the internet by his old girlfriend, too. She is not using gay things but promiscuity allegations. She is stalking his new girlfriend on the internet too. Bullying is a OCD behavior and the reason for it isn’t any characteristic of the victim; it is character disorder of the bully.

Posted Friday, January 06, 2012 10:37 AM By Abeca Christian
MIKE thank you for posting the CCC on said subject on homosexuals. I appreciate it because the message is the same but in different ways to convey them. I respect your style of conveying truth. My style is the same except I go further with adding scripture passages and saints etc. It gives a bigger picture as to why the CCC teaches what it teaches. I want to encourage others to learn it also through tradition because through tradition it goes into more details, Sodomy is a grave sin that cry’s out to the heavens! We can all learn from Sodom and Gomorrah. The roots of homosexuality helps man understand their sinful being and their acting upon it. Although it is complex but it always goes straight to the root. Consequences to SIN.

Posted Friday, January 06, 2012 10:40 AM By Abeca Christian
RR I agree. JonJ RR is charitable and her advice is good!

Posted Friday, January 06, 2012 1:05 PM By MIKE
Good job Michelle. We are our own worst enemies when we are lazy. The only thing I would add is that we only support the Bishop’s political position when it CONFORMS to the “CCC 2nd Ed” in its entirety regarding Faith and Morals. Some Bishops conform to marxist “liberation theology” which is not a teaching of Jesus or the Church – in fact liberation theology violates teachings of the Church including but not limited to violating the principle of subsidiarity (CCC # 1883, 1885, 1894, 2209.)

Posted Friday, January 06, 2012 7:08 PM By Michelle in CA
Mike: You’re right.

Posted Friday, January 06, 2012 10:22 PM By MIKE
Hi Abeca, I agree. For those who have not read the CCC, appropriate Holy Scripture and other Church Documents are in the footnotes at the bottom of each page. The CCC is based upon Holy Scripture and Holy Tradition. Here are the Bible passages regarding the Church teaching on homosexual acts and homosexuality from the footnotes: Gen 19:1-29; Rom 1:24-27; 1 Cor 6:10; 1 Tim 1:10; and CDF “Persona humana 8”.

Posted Saturday, January 07, 2012 1:33 PM By JonJ
First of all, its hard to have a kid in a lot of activities and still have them hermetically sealed away from other kids.My nephew has been on both international choir tours and multi-city choir tours in the US, which means you have to trust the supervision. He also competed in the national science olympics. Both my sister and brother-in-law have full time jobs. Its not as if they were going out on regular dates by themselves. Btw, RR, from what I understand, what my nephew was doing wasn’t “mortal sin”. It seems that my nephew STOPPED things to prevent it from going there. And, he didn’t want to discuss this with his parents, so he talked to me about it.

Posted Saturday, January 07, 2012 9:23 PM By JLS
Sin leaves a mark; the more sin, the more mark. Erasing such a mark requires what is called perfect contrition, which is extremely rare. Purgatory erases these marks. The faithful begin purging the marks of sin during their lifetimes … If anyone wants to know how long it takes, then simply identify to yourself one of the marks of sin, and then set about erasing it. After several decades of sincere effort, you will then have some idea about what is required to erase all the marks of in in your life. BTW, a mark of sin is not exactly easily hidden from the rest of the world, especially with the devil calling them out to all. Easiest way to not get all marked up is to not sin.

Posted Sunday, January 08, 2012 2:46 PM By RR
JonJ: “Making out” IS a mortal sin. These acts are sins of impurity. These acts are pre-marital sex acts which ARE mortally sinful. Just because they didn’t finish and stopped before it went there doesn’t mean that it wasn’t mortally sinful. The only way it may not be mortally sinful is if he didn’t have full knowledge that what he was doing was mortally sinful. If this is the case, I hope, as someone he trusted, that you told him that it is mortally sinful to do these acts before marriage and that these acts are sins of impurity. Also, it may be hard to “hermetically seal” them away from other kids, but it IS possible to not put them in certain situations and make sure they are supervised. If your sister and brother-in-law both have full time jobs, then it is their responsibility to find someone to watch over their kids while they are working. If this kind of thing happens with this travelling, then I think that I would rethink letting my child go on these tours. It sounds like these trips are near occassions and occassions of sin. NOTHING is more important than your nephew’s salvation and I would definitely be instructing him, as a trusted uncle, about sins of impurity. I think if I were in your situation I would tell my sister, if she doesn’t know. I, as a mother, would want to know if my child, at 13, was “making out” with a girl. If a neice or nephew of mine told me this, I would definitely tell my brother or sister. Their child’s soul is at risk.

Posted Monday, January 09, 2012 4:47 AM By Abeca Christian
MIKE I agree but I still encourage others to look for more truths that are not quoted in the CCC. The CCC is beautiful and has the teachings of the church, passages to look up scripture and saints teachings as well but it does not contain all. Our faith is rich with Tradition and truth, not everything is contained in the bible or the CCC but together we can get a good decent amount of the wholeness of the faith but when one is growing and has embraced the virtues of love of scripture and teachings of mother Church in reading the CCC as well, they are also open to discovering more of our beautiful faith through Tradition, writings and teachings from earlier church fathers and saints. I appreciate your comments and encouragement to read the CCC but I do not want other avenues to leading one to truth be ignored. My grandmother was a perfect example of someone who did not have a CCC to read but she knew the faith better than many even more than some priests. She was well read on early writing, through Tradition and scripture. You would mention a saint, and she knew all about them. Her wisdom and knowledge and especially her love of truth and of faith, conveyed true Catholicism. She was very poor and lived a very humble and simple life. People from all over considered her a very holy woman. She attended daily mass. Priests loved conversing with her. Her humility was so well known, she knew how to speak to people, I wish I would of inherited her virtues.

Posted Monday, January 09, 2012 4:53 AM By Abeca Christian
RR I am humbled by your response to JonJ because you took the time to share with him some important “understanding” elements of what is sin. Many parents are lacking that ability to teach, instruct, lead by example etc their children and even others, I’m not saying Jon J is but the fact that someone took the time in true charity to point out these things, humbles me because it is rare and I wish more people with lead others as you are RR trying to lead someone with love in Christ, as you have with your comments to JonJ.

Posted Monday, January 09, 2012 8:34 AM By MD
JohnJ-I think you are missing the main point of Abeca’s argument. The problem is NOT the treatment of people with same-sex attraction, especially in the Church, but the radical activism our society is pushing upon us to accept morally corrupt behavior that undermines the dignity of human sexuality and life at its fundamental core. The Church is explicitly clear stating that people with same-sex attraction must be treated with dignity, respect and charity (love), but the act of homosexuality is both evil and violent towards God’s children. This article demonstrates the social agenda of radical leftists like our governor who promote a way of life that removes people from the grace of God. You should be upset with the social engineering that can have eternal consequences, not people like Abeca who share the love of God on this site. It is clear from reading her postings that she cares for the dignity of ALL people and loves people in their brokenness and desires for them to be in Heaven with our Lord. God Love You.

Posted Monday, January 09, 2012 10:22 AM By JLS
JonJ, read the Prophets and notice how God views sins of the flesh, and what such sins lead to. Read it and then tell me I’m off track in concluding that adultery and idolatry lead to the endpoint of homosexuality and then the destruction of the society.

Posted Monday, January 09, 2012 10:34 AM By Abeca Christian
MD God bless you.

Posted Monday, January 09, 2012 11:21 AM By Paul
Abecca, before the days of secularism and relativism, internet, ipods, tvs, and other powerful negative outside influences, it was easier to be a good Christian. Those were also the days of the Baltimore catechism. It is good to read the lives of the Saints and other good books as ones time permits; but it is CRITICAL to know ones faith because of all the errors and the deceitfulness of the evil one who uses more sophisticated methods as we become more sophisticated in a technological world. Our Faith can only be learned in ENTIRETY through the CCC and the Bible. Also we must be certain not to draw the wrong conclusions when discussing “tradition”. CCC “85 “The task of giving an authentic interpretation of the Word of God, whether in its written form or in the form of Tradition, has been entrusted to the living teaching office of the Church alone. Its authority in this matter is exercised in the name of Jesus Christ. This means that the task of interpretation has been entrusted to the bishops in communion with the successor of Peter, the Bishop of Rome.” Jesus gave the Magisterium to loose and bind through Apostolic succession. Some things can be changed while others can not. The CCC already contains and interprets the Doctrine (Deposit) of the Catholic Faith in entirety for us, and its through Apostolic Tradition, Sacred Scripture, and the Magisterium. (Please read the words of Pope John Paul II in the beginning of the CCC. They are his words, not mine.)

Posted Tuesday, January 10, 2012 3:11 PM By Kenneth M. Fisher
One of the most happily married couples I know never even kissed until they were married! God bless, yours in Their Hearts, Kenneth M. Fisher

Posted Tuesday, January 10, 2012 3:30 PM By Abeca Christian
Paul you are preaching to the choice, no argument there. What you said is what I already know. I have tried to explain my point of view and am not doing a good job because I keep getting preached on what we all already know. Thanks though for caring. : ) God bless you!

Posted Wednesday, January 11, 2012 5:23 PM By Abeca Christian
On my last post I don’t know how the word choice came to be but I meant choir. Paul you are preaching to the choir. Sorry for the typo Paul God bless you my friend! : )

Posted Wednesday, January 11, 2012 11:03 PM By Abeca Christian
MD thank you for being a real gem of justice here. Lately I have been ill judged not on here but in my real life, trying to raise my children as best as I can. With all the outside forces working against us, it hurts so much and it cuts a mum’s heart in half when one’s effort are seen as something else other than good. Taking the responsibility off of the child who is in great need of spiritual growth, growth in virtue etc. I feel for our youth today, they are faced with so much and I feel more for the parents who are of conservative nature, they are always on trial judged for giving consequences. With all these battles we are faced with, we just can’t keep fighting the good fight when we are raising children, we need to stay focused on raising our kids well first, it is a full time job when we care enough to give them the tools and love that they need to overcome what is put on them. MD I appreciate that you saw my real intent of heart. There is hope after all, the evil one just loves to tell us we are failures, loves to blame us for everything, cuts and cuts. All we can do is pray for God’s courage and healing because after all we are only human and it does hurt to be thought of ill when we care for the salvation of others. I guess I find myself weak that way, lately especially. I get misunderstood often and even labeled ill. Its expected when we clash with different personalities but it does not mean that we have a faulty character. Sometimes I just want to be hermit and stay away from everyone, because it would spare me from sinning more, sometimes we are provoked to sin because we end up getting upset at the injustice and we end up being verbal about it and we may not be so charitable at times, so best to remain silent and pray for God’s true guidance.

Posted Thursday, January 12, 2012 10:33 AM By k
abeca, raising your children well IS fighting the good fight! God grant you grace, strenght and peace in your trials and healing for your wounds.