The following comes from a Dec. 14 story on Breitbart.com.
….In his 91-page opinion in Brown v. Buhman, on Dec. 13, U.S. District Judge Clark Waddoups struck down Utah’s law making polygamy a crime. In so doing, he may have opened Pandora’s Box.
As a condition for becoming a state in 1896, Congress required Utah to outlaw polygamy, which is marriage between three or more persons. This case involved a family of fundamentalist offshoots of nineteenth-century Mormonism. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints disavowed polygamy in 1890, and again in 1904, but some splinter groups continue the practice.
Waddoups’ opinion would not only cover such groups, however, but also Muslims or anyone else who claims a right—religious or otherwise—to have multiple-person marriages. He notes that the Supreme Court ruled against polygamy in its 1878 case Reynolds v. U.S., but said he cannot simply rest upon that decision “without seriously addressing the much developed constitutional jurisprudence that now protects individuals from the criminal consequences intended by legislatures to apply to certain personal choices.”
….This lawsuit is the brainchild of Prof. Jonathan Turley at George Washington University. He’s designed a two-step strategy, piggybacking on same-sex marriage: first, decriminalize polygamy, then assert a right to official recognition of polygamy.
As Turley explained in previous court filings, he believes there is a “right to self-determination of private relations and family matters free of government intrusion.” He noted that many oppose polygamy, and goes on to assert that polygamists “are entitled to protection from such majoritarian animus and bias vis-à-vis their private lifestyles and relations. Their status under domestic law is a civil rights issue deserving the same protections afforded to homosexuals and other minority groups.”
The exact legal arguments for same-sex marriage equally apply to multiple-person marriages. Turley acknowledges that marriage laws that do not include both are “a tool for the imposition of a uniform moral agenda or tenets on citizens.”
Turley then goes on to make clear he is not only arguing for the form of polygamy technically called polygyny, which is one man with multiple women. In other words, he also argues for a right to polyandry (one woman with multiple men) and polyamory (multiple men with multiple women).
….While keeping in place for now the Utah law against issuing multiple marriage certificates for polygamous marriage (the second step of the Turley strategy), [Waddoups] invalidated the criminal law against multiple adults cohabiting together as a family, which is the core of the laws against polygamy.
This case will likely now go to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Tenth Circuit in Denver.
To read the entire posting, click here.
It really all makes sense: you have to ban polygamy to allow for the takeover of sharia law in the US. Another obstacle, traditional Christian marriage, flattened. (By the way, the Honorable Judge Waddoups is a Bush appointee.. It all makes sense.)
“the takeover of sharia law in the US.” Really now. What??
Sodomites have a leg up on Sharia.
But, but, the sodomy people, they told us, they told us that this would never happen. They sayed that this was all a bunch of histeria that is being stirred up by bigoted religious fanatics. They sayed that this just won’t happen. This just can’t be happening. I just can’t believe this. The sodomy people never lie.
It didn’t happen. Polygamy is still illegal in Utah. The only thing the ruling clarified was that it was unconstitutional to outlaw co-habitation, which the law also did. Marriage in Utah is still between two loving, consenting adults.
No, not exactly. It is illegal to be legally married to more than one person. However, you can co-habit with as many people as you want. Apparently this is legal in every state. It won’t be long though before the non-legal wives who want equal status will sue for that change. We are descending into a culture of individualists. We are entering social anarchy, which many people support. (The Church, however, asks for the state to regulate these kinds of situations for the good of the partners and their progeny.) This is the same mentality that contributes to people starting their own Catholic Churches, deciding that the hierarchy is wrong and they are right. And they are the God-chosen ones. Stay safe in the barque of Peter.
Might be easier to stay ‘safe’ in the barque if the folks running the ship didn’t toss the sailor’s guide in favor of scaring the faithful by purposely speeding toward rocks just to shake things up like a roller coaster ride.
God runs the Ship. Have some Faith.
Just for you Anonymous:
And he brought him to Jerusalem, and set him on a pinnacle of the temple, and he said to him: If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself from hence. For it is written, that He hath given his angels charge over thee, that they keep thee. And that in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest perhaps thou dash thy foot against a stone. And Jesus answering, said to him: It is said: Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
That said, while I *DO* believe the the Holy Ghost protects the Church, the willful mismanagement of Holy Mother Church, that is taking Her for a world-hugging nose dive, seems little more than putting God to the test… or at the very least a serious sin of presumption.
God bless :)
” Stay safe in the barque of Peter.” = Sadly, and realistically speaking anonymous has *individually* left that “let’s look the other way and pray” responsibility of *staying safe* to a group known as SNAP. If our lead shepherds continually allow our children’s souls to be spiritually touched by poisonous error, then in reality children are not safer spiritually or physically because of a placebo glaze of frosting known as a “no touch policy”.
Many members of SNAP were not “safe” in the arms of dissenting perverts who claimed to be in “full communion” while harming them and in turn damaged their faith and the faith of millions. Unless they are taught the Fullness of Truth, many members of SNAP and their families will forever view the Church’s teaching on homosexuality as nonsense and hypocritical. Still not very safe anonymous, as much as you’d like to look the other way and pretend that it is safe.
I’m sorry for what you suffered at the hands or other parts of priests. That really explains a lot about your attitude toward the Church. Please extend our care and love to all of those in your group. I hope you will forgive and rejoin the Church.
Catherine, if you think so little of the church, why do you even belong to it? You are right that a lot of Catholics left because their personal integrity would not allow them to remain in a church that harbored criminals. So why did you stay?
Anonymous writes, “I’m sorry for what you suffered at the hands or other parts of priests. That really explains a lot about your attitude toward the Church.”
#1 Please get your make believe imagination out of the gutter. #2. You are not one bit sorry for what the real victims of abuse have suffered because anyone who was truly sorry would have never enjoyed writing the vulgar little comment that you just wrote.
#3. The Bride of Christ is Spotless. The blame and responsibility lies very much with people such as yourself who are still denying, harboring and enabling dissenters and undermining good priests. I have not been abused and I am not a member but the group named SNAP will now have to be a work of God’s mercy in order to restore the untold damage because enablers such as yourself attacked and undermined anyone who spoke up. You have done the same thing to priests who teach and uphold “all” of the Teachings of the Catholic Church.
Anonymous that is irrelevant. its so insensitive of you to ask her that. She is not a Judas committing suicide, she knows better. Wrong is still wrong…..Catherine knows this. Anony what I have learned throughout the years, is that when someone from the church denies all those facts and says smart remarks like you did, it only makes the situation worst…it does not show that the church has changed …remember we are the church. Your comments are so much like the regulars…it takes more guts to think like Jesus. Its not the norm to take accountability. When I hear someone from within our church show real compassion and responsibly, it gives me hope. I think that Catherine is just trying to push more compassion out of us….but we all have issues….even within families there are problems but we can’t leave…we have to work through those issues because it shows we really care. And there is that concern that because some within the church are not obeying Christ, that things have not changed for the better…..there will be more hardships.
You are an odd bird, Anonymous, “…what you suffered at the hands or other parts of priests,” is a rather awkward attempt at euphemism. That said, if some reference to the priest abuse scandal is all you’ve retained or suddenly gained from the things I’ve written – if the above was intended for me – you may want to revisit your narrow focus.
God bless you. I pray you do not lose the Faith in the midst of full communion. For all of your stone throwing, you sound like a Pharisee, do as I say, do as I say, do not question, obey, obey or else you’ll be cast out. Misuse of power, Anonymous. You are sighting the letter of the law while willfully tossing out the spirit intended to give life and Faith.
I pray you return to the mind of Christ.
As to your reply to Catherine, Anonymous, you should hear yourself from the outside. You would likely blame a battered wife for staying in a marriage in an attempt to shield her children from a man that, while very good and solid without drinking alcohol, chooses to down every flask he can lay his hands on…. because he chooses to listen to and be influenced by the wrong people.
So who is to help the poor man who is indeed the head of that family? Is it not the wife’s duty to stand up to protect the children? Or should said wife, in obedience, rather introduce her children to the ease of drink and carousing so as not to upset their lawful father?
Quite a Pharisaical catch 22 you’ve set up.
Catherine, I think you have a lot of hatred and it has spilled over onto me. I assumed it was because you were assaulted but you must have other reasons. I don’t have anything to do with priests. I say hi to them if they say hi to me and I go to Mass and Confession. I shake their hand if they extend it. Accusing me of denying and harboring abusive priests is wrong. I was a child. It was taken care of by the adults. I hope somebody gives you a heart for Christmas.
Anony I can’t remain silent and let you say untrue things…..Catherine does not have a lot of hatred for the reasons you believe but she and many of us, have broken hearts for the dissent and abuses that are affecting our church life and faith.
The glass is not half empty but half full….Catherine’s zeal and love for the truth is what is leading her attempts to challenge people to reflect.
Challenge people to reflect on what? I posted for people to stay faithful to Christ and not follow their own thinking. She says that makes me responsible for child molesting. No! It doesn’t and don’t make excuses for her. She is wrong and not the faithful person you think she is. That is the same kind of thinking that the “comedienne” Kathy Griffen has. I can’t even print what she calls priests. I assumed that Catherine was molested. She wasn’t. I was more than molested. I was too young to even know what was done. And she is blaming me for harboring molesters. He left the priesthood. I didn’t understand it but I knew it was somehow my fault. Thanks so much for the memories, “Catherine the Thinks she’s so Great.” Just in time to ruin Christimas. God bless you and FIX you.
” I hope somebody gives you a heart for Christmas.”
“The reason why the lukewarm run so great a risk of being lost is because tepidity conceals from the soul the immense evil which it causes.”…….St. Alphonsus Liguori
Now people who say to stay in the Church are evil? You must be a fundamentalist or Jehovah’s witness or something. A lot of you think that the Catholic Church is evil because of the priest scandal but they were just sinful men and Jesus Christ is the true Head of the Church. I hope you will come to the Fullness of Truth someday, but God bless you on your path to the Lord.
Anony she only brought up those child abuse examples is to prove a point but I think you took it personally. Are you k? I don’t know if you are or not. Look Anony I am really sorry for what you have gone through. This is not about rehashing anything about your past, she doesn’t know you, I think that it is just about the impression that you give to others is that church leadership is perfect and they can never go wrong due to free will.
when they have valid concerns you tend to brush them off or discredit them and that concerns many of us.
I don’t think you get it. I did read your post and am trying to have some understanding to where you are coming from. I am really sorry for the misunderstanding.
And for the record, this has nothing to do with you personally, but it does make one to wonder what your motif is. I wish that we could dialogue without people making it about themselves, can you just agree that we are dealing with issues. I guess I am different than you, I do not take them personally but instead I approach their concerns with compassion and since I too have been able to validate their concerns, I find it disturbing that some just seem to live in denial or they are just trying to cover up or just make people seem like they are hating on the church when in reality they are concerned because they love Christ and His church so much that it disturbs them as these abuses are just happening and no one is taking responsibility or doing anything to instruct the faithful properly.
Lukewarmness is not an excuse, either!
Abeca, you so a good job overlooking her faults, sweet sister in Christ.
abeca, why is it OK with you that someone hurts another person because they have issues? Ann Malley also couldn’t know that my mother was abused by her drunken husband. I didn’t blame my mother for staying. THE CHURCH SAID SHE HAD TO. I am sure that they have their family issues too.
Anony she only posts church teachings and challenges people to reason…..I don’t see any fault in that. I admire true charity even if others don’t. She has her own style of conveying, you probably just clash with her style or do not get it or maybe there are other issues there? Who knows.
Well anyhoo….I’m sure Catherine doesn’t want us to get off the subject to make her the subject because she isn’t. I just think you are being unfair to her and perhaps not comprehending. It may have a lot to do with the will of the person. Catherine has been consistent in her faithfulness to the faith. We know that sometimes you just don’t agree with her zeal to defend what she holds true in her Catholic convictions…..that is just an issue you will have to deal with but don’t trash her person…..she does not deserve that. In order to dialogue well…we must remember true charity.
The law making polygamy a crime has been struck down. So, yes, it is happening. It is following the pattern that was set by those who made sodomy equal to marriage by judicial decree. Bakers are going to end up losing their businesses for refusing to bake a cake that celebrates polygamy. I guess the bakers can always bake cakes in prison.
Not quite Ski Ven. Someone posted exactly what was struck down. The clause prohibiting the cohabitation of a married couple with a third adult was struck down. So under the law, a married couple who rented out a room were breaking the law. Now they are not. Bigamy – the marrying of 2 or more people – is still illegal.
So yes, if your baker decides that it looks fishy if there is a college student living in your extra bedroom, they yes I suppose he could refuse to bake a cake celebrating his graduation. Is that the kind of country YOU want to live in?
Okay. Now that you have explained it to me YFC, I am beginning to see it your way. For a while I thought that the cohabitation that you had mentioned had something to do with one man living with a bunch of women as his wives, like on that show Sister Wives. Now that you have straitened me out YFC, I get it. Yes, this case has absolutely nothing to do with that Sister Wives kind of stuff, as anyone who bothers to use a search engine can easily verify. I know that you would never, ever lie to me. You are so great. Thanks for commenting.
Next is marriage to animals. Also, down the pike, sex with children of any age, legalization of pedophiles. This is coming soon. Perhaps the same judge. Once the spigot is open, you just have to follow the water flow.
The “family” now means anyone, any group, anything … one could “marry” one’s cat or dog or blue bird! This reduces the word “marriage” to nothing at all or just anything goes. Under such conditions, why get married at all? The “family” is no longer a father (man) and mother (woman) to protect and bring up children according to Judeo-Christian standards. We respect our Morman and Muslim breathern, but are they to force their religion on us? Homosexuality and polygamy are not ” religious doctrines”. One is a sickness and the other a tradition.
Eye roll on this one . . . .
This article gives you a better picture of what happened in this case.
Polygamy Law was Not Weakened
“In other words, he also argues for a right to polyandry (one woman with multiple men) and polyamory (multiple men with multiple women).”
… And of course, multiple men with men, and women with women … woof.
The interesting thing will be if the law is finally fully overturned in the interest of religious freedom . . . .
As if the Mormons needed any more bad press.
Just another “Three’s Company”, episode, right?
“Were not going to see hand chopping off, were not going to see retaliatory violence, we’re not going to see underage marriages, were not going to see polygamous marriages,” Clark Lombardi of the University of Washington Law School told NPR. “The U.S. courts simply wouldn’t do it.” HMMMM????
Since the 1950’s the United States has been on a constant slide away from God. Denying prayers in public schools was the beginning of the atheists gaining control.Marriage is being threatened, and now this latest pagan practice turns America farther and farther away from her Christian roots. Because the Supreme Court has displaced the 10 Commandments, there is not much hope for America. Until the Decalogue is once against enforced, and Christian values upheld and practiced, our once proud nation will continue on her path to barbarism. Russia is now more virtuous than the United States, and that is a sad but true fact. Nature abhors a vacuum , and since morality is out the door, pagan and anti-god practices will take its place. We have let it happen by ignoring the facts and news as it happens, being only interested in cereal and circus, as the Romans were almost nineteen hundred years ago. The Roman Empire fell apart, and so too will the United States, because we no longer honor God and His commandments. Being political correct does not work; just look where it has gotten us. Christ was not politically correct, and neither were the countless saints, many of them martyrs, who gave their lives rather than practice pagan ideas.Unless Christianity, and especially Catholicism takes an immediate stand, we can write America off as being totally pagan and barbaric. May God have mercy on us, especially for NOT praying and for NOT dealing with these problems as responsible Christians.
Father Karl, first of all, prayer is not prohibited in public schools. Any student can pray at any time in a public school, within the confines of classroom discipline (you cannot pray out loud in the middle of an exam, for example).
What is prohibited in public schools is for a teacher, student, or any other agent of the publically funded school to compel students to pray under threat of compromising academic credit. You cannot have students lead other students in prayer, using state purchased broadcast equipment in a process that virtually assures only one religious view will be expressed at school events which for some students, involves academic credit.
In fact, compulsion to pray in schools is not only unconstitutional, it’s also immoral (unless, of course, we’re talking about Catholic schools where parents give consent for this to take place). Have you forgotten the CCC instruction that it is immoral to compel attendance at church under threat of criminal punishment?
The rule against school prayer is completely in line with this instruction from the CCC.
Your comparison to Rome is defective. Rome didn’t collapse due to it’s failure to embrace the Catholic faith. In fact, Rome’s founding, rise to power, and greatest flowering—for the most part—preceded acceptance of Christianity by Constantine. Rome collapsed only AFTER Catholicism became the official religion of Rome.
The idea that nations and Empires are built upon “good moral values” is a crock.
Jon J., I took classical Latin and Rome collapsed because of its decadence, especially that of its later Emperors and their families, and because it tried to control too many cultures, countries and religions. Are we not doing the same? Plato predicted it would fall when the drones (non workers) outnumbered the worker bees, and it did. He said, as did Jefferson, that sooner or later republics fall if the people are not virtuous. Jefferson added religious, meaning God fearing in the Judeo Christian sense of the word. I once made a statement that Jefferson tore the Bible apart and took out what he wanted, but I found out later that was not really true. He just took parts of the Bible and used his favorite parts for a pamphlet on how to live virtuously, so he was still pretty much a Christian.
This is good for Christian life. We are more and more separated from Society. Finally you will be able to see distinctly who is Christian and who is not. Mormons and Muslims have much in common. Sodomites will be beheaded by them, eventually.
And you will sit by and cheer? Or will you render aid?
“And you will sit by and cheer? Or will you render aid?”
No YFC, by then many of the Christians who would have helped you will most likely already be imprisoned for telling you that homosexual acts are offensive to God. Homosexuals who paraded their sinfulness will be on their own and then as Western Schneider says they will soon see the terrible fate that they have brought upon themselves.
Well said, Catherine, and sadly, true.
Well, Catherine, I see you will be cheering on those who would behead gay people. You probably already cheer on those who bash gays at a truly alarming rate. Shame.
I think you’re confused, YFC. It would rather be those who don’t care enough for the souls of those living in unrepentant mortal sin that would be more likely to cheer at their beheading.
Shame on you for trying to equate loathing of sin to loathing of the sinner.
YFC, There is no sinner bashing in the Legion of Mary. There is only the bashing of mortal sin through sincere contrition and a good confessor. Tragically, many still choose sins of the flesh before choosing to obey God. The shame is in those who have obstinately chosen the devil as their personal cheerleader.
YFC, do you really believe what you just posted? At any rate, Catherine has retained her honor. It’s a shame the same cannot be said about you. Catherine is right. Tyranny knows no limits! I might point out, however, that it does have its beginnings. It starts with inflammatory hate speech, as perfectly exemplified by your response to Catherine. YFC, your comments are dripping with contempt for fellow human being, Catherine. May God have mercy on your soul.
Well, Ann Malley, it’s the sinner that get’s beheaded, right? So you are cheering on the beheading of the sinner. Shame Shame Shame.
Playing dumb doesn’t suit you, YFC. And you know perfectly well that prior to the beheading of the poor, beleaguered homosexuals will come the beheading of the ‘nasty, mean, self righteous, bigoted’ Catholics/Christians.
So, duh, there won’t be any Catholics/Christians to stick up for your human rights, YFC, your God given rights, the dignity of your soul, nothing. Cheering would be a moot point. Even so, why would a Christian who laments you putting your soul in eternal jeopardy now, now while you seethe and bash and arrogantly rebel at Truth, be happy when you are beheaded and sent straight to Hell? The idea is to save your soul, Silly Billy.
Perhaps that is language you can understand. Then again, you already knew all of the above, you just push the same sex agenda for the sake of change and self validation. Much like we all do with when we have sins we don’t want to give up.
YFC, Ann Malley hit the nail on the head. Selectively playing dumb does not suit you but this is what can happen when a person first chooses to worship the selective mortal sin that they have become so very attached to. You ignore the reality that you are already standing at a more spiritually dangerous precipice than a beheading by your seeking validation of deadly mortal sin as now being an acceptable good. Deadly mortal sin has become much more precious to you than having a respecting love for God which should also entail a healthy fear of never wanting to offend Almighty God, especially by pretending that you have the power to mock and change God’s Laws and Revealed Truths to suit and revolve around deadly mortal sin habits. YFC you are in a most precarious state at this time because you have many cheerleaders who are also willing to cheer you on and validate the committing of mortal sins. It is very simple, YFC you will either listen or ignore and reject the Truthful aid that is being rendered and you will either hopefully choose Eternal Life by obeying Almighty God or tragically choose your false idol god and lose that most precious gift of Eternal Life.
Since habitual sin often blinds and darkens the intellect this is why you still choose to ignore the aid that is being rendered on this faithful Catholic website. YFC, hatred for the Truth is mentioned in the Gospel below. Still at this time you are selectively ignoring the consistent rendering of warning aid that you should first fear what is going to kill both the body and *the soul.* YFC, You will never be able to say to God, “No one rendered me aid in order to rescue me from myself when I was foolishly choosing to mock You and offend You by rejecting Your Revealed Truths.”
The Gospel of Matthew 10 Douay -Rheims
21] The brother also shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the son: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and shall put them to death.  And you shall be hated by all men for my name’ s sake: but he that shall persevere unto the end, he shall be saved.  And when they shall persecute you in this city, flee into another. Amen I say to you, you shall not finish all the cities of Israel, till the Son of man come.  The disciple is not above the master, nor the servant above his lord.  It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the goodman of the house Beelzebub, how much more them of his household?
 And fear ye not them that kill the body, and are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him that can destroy both soul and body in hell.  Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and not one of them shall fall on the ground without your Father.  But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.
Some of the Jewish rabbis will tell you that there is a tradition in the Talmud that the Lord told the Israelites not to boast when the Egyptians were drowned because it could have been them if they had not followed his Commandments. St. John Marie Vianney said basically the same thing when he stated not to be joyful when a sinner is chastised because God can chastise anyone. It is sometimes hard not to do when one has suffered so much from others, but it should be a warning to us all. Nevertheless, the Book of Revelation does refer to the Saints rejoicing on Judgment Day at the final destruction of their enemies after their persecution. Maranthana, come Lord Jesus.
Ann Malley and Catherine, you can’t come out and simply say that beheading of anybody, including gay people, is abhorrent and that you would have a duty to give aid! Can you? Can you?
YFC Catherine is correct! We just got news that because a Christian, a celebrity said something as charitable to try to help homosexuals, that they labeled it as anti gay and they were suspended from work for it! More persecution to follow and your dumb unrealistic example of beheaded is not reality…that is not happening in the USA…so stop with that non-sense…just admit you don’t care if Christians get imprisoned or punished for speaking their values! Also stop twisting the words of Ann….we can see right through your twisting!
Dear Abeca, I did not raise the issue of beheading. If you read the entire dialogue, you will see that I was responding to someone else who said that Muslims and Mormons would behead gays in future days. Please read the context of these statements before you accuse me of things that are not true.
YFC thank you for clarifying….my apologies.
YFC, you will reap what you have sown…. consider it God’s judgment
Canisius, I wouldn’t be so smug in my assessment of my own divine judgement if I were you.
You were the one who told folks to on another thread to disobey the Pope at their own peril. So why are you so offended now by Canisius’s supposed smugness, YFC?
Unlike you YFC I don’t demand that Christ and His Church validate my sexual preferences or demand that gay marriage be imposed on the culture in the name of tolerance. I don’t worship the phallus like you sodomites do. Unlike you I am not a moral coward, I will call sin out and when I see and especially when it tries to influence the Faithful under the facade of acceptance and diversity, I crush it like the vermin that it is… I may be struggling sinner but I know I am better than you…
Well, Canisius, I’m not a moral coward either. Which is why I pray for your healing. By your own statements, you grew up in a horrible househould headed by a lesbian couple. Unfortunately, you have not yet come to terms with that upbringing, and instead hold all lesbians accountable for the two horrible individuals who raised you. I truly pray that you find healing.
Canisius is right YFC….he is not speaking from his own invention but from what has already been revealed as truth to all faithful people of faith! We are not without sin so we humbly ask for mercy and understand that if we continue to live in sin, we too will reap what we sow….no matter what immoral sins we may have embraced, if one does not repent…we shall all face consequences.
Do you really expect a Christian to sit by and watch someone get beheaded and cheer?
Western Schneider, consider the responses I’ve already gotten from Catherine, Anne Malley, Tracy and Canisius. The latter was the most brazen when he said, “you will reap what you have sown…. consider it God’s judgment”. Doesn’t that sound like cheer leading? It sure doesn’t sound like aiding the potential victim of the beheading. And please note that NONE of them said, ‘why of COURSE we would come to the assistance of the one subjected to such horrific violence. There is no OTHER Christian response.’
YFC – Jesus, Himself said that He will sit in JUDGEMENT of each of us. Have you not read the Bible?
He also clearly stated: “For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few”. Mt 7-13-14; Mt 7:21-23.
We all must JUDGE right from wrong.
And we find those answers in the Bible and the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition”.
Why? I will be blatantly honest, I despise sodomites like you who proudly march in your gay shame parades and then demand the rest of us to accept your perversions. I am tired of seeing gays influence and destroy whats left of this culture and never mind what you have done to the Church. Gay priests sullying a Holy calling for their hook ups and uncontrollable passions. From this moment forward I have declared war on sodomite clerics, I will call them and confront them and do everything I can to drive them out the priesthood…Be Judgemental
After the widespread acceptance of homosexual marriage, this latest move by the enemies of our Christian civilization is but a logical next step. How soon will we hear of yet undreamed of connubial arrangements? These things will surely come. Much of the blame for this rests with our fellow Catholics who tend to vote for same-sex marriage in fairly high numbers. Ultimately, our shepherds, the bishops, are more concerned with matters of the belly than matters of morality. The culture war has been raging for years and our church leaders have largely been afraid to speak out. Evil triumphs when good people do nothing.
The widespread acceptance of contraception and abortion effectively redefined Marriage years ago. Queers are not the architects of the decline of Marriage, they have only hopped on the bus.
How true, Tracy. That’s why there’s so much agreement among the ‘Catholic’ community not to judge.
Ann, this would sure be one reason! But just the same, there are contracepting Christians, who fervently oppose redefining marriage not realizing that they themselves already have!
Another good point, Tracy. And that’s why their argument against ‘the sin they personally don’t commit against marriage’ rings hypocritical when coming out against same-sex anything. It promotes the notion that moral values are based on human respect and social acceptance instead of God’s law.
By the way, we should all remember that contraception once was illegal in our country before it was legalized by our courts. When civil laws are passed which oppose God’s laws, tyranny ensues!
Ann, your statement “It promotes the notion that moral values are based on human respect and social acceptance instead of God’s law”, is the best explanation I have heard so far! Thank you!
Ann, Jesus said He will judge all human beings at death, and again publically at the end of the world.
We as individuals are not excused from judging right from wrong, judging good from evil.
“Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgement.” Jn 7:24
Never condone evil (mortal sin). Just because many people commit mortal sins does not justify them. God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah due to the unrepentant sinfulness of the vast majority.
Jesus said that few will get to Heaven. Mt 7:13-14 & 7:21-23.
Oscar, I’m not sure what you’re trying to tell me here. I agree with you (if I’m not misunderstanding you) that we as Christians and as people are required to judge fruits/acts. We do as much every day as those without the ability to judge cannot function – which cloths should I wear on a hot day, what route will get me to work on time, what company will be detrimental for my children, etc, etc.
The government needs to crack down on all those who have multiple wives and do not even support their own children – they make the taxpayers do it through Aid to Dependent Children, etc., etc.
Not supporting your own children needs to be a jailable offense.
“Father Karl” is correct. Other countries are more virtuous than America. Although, this is not for want of trying on behalf of the USA, when its leaders, including prior Secretary of State Clinton, are using its international grants programs, such as through the USAID, to insist that an American-style “woman’s reproductive health” legal structure is adopted in recipient countries. This “moral colonialism” is a hallmark of the Democratic Party and, increasingly, of the Catholic Church. The Church, through its wonderful USCCB, pushes funding into the hands of pro-abortion, pro-contraceptive, pro-homosexual groups, and refuse to back down on this, even when the continuation of such policies are brought to their attention. But, this is too much focused on “sin” issues according to Pope Francis. We need joy, and more joy, and acceptance of all behaviors. No, Holy Father, look and see how much glory homosexual “love” has brought to this country. The failure of the Church to confront homosexual demands, which continue unabated, for all sorts of “respect” is the principle reason for their success, and for the awful fall-out of this success. You cannot compete with the Angelic-Demonic intelligence of Satan, Holy Father, and your “Gang of 8” is also not at all up to the task.
This article is nothing short of a hack job.
What was ruled unconstitutional, was a Utah law against co-habitation. Utah struck down a clause that made it illegal for more than two adults to co-habitate. Now, certainly, this ruling facilitates individuals who want to live in an polyamorous sexual relationship.
Yet, I think the ruling is correct. It’s called freedom people. Liberty interest. The right of free association. Privacy rights. Just because more than two adults who are not related are living in the same household should not allow the state to throw them in jail.
This is a very different thing than saying polygyny is legal. The whole bundle of legal rights shared by spouses will not be available to co-habitating polyamorous adults.
I think its pathetic that California Catholic chose to reprint such distortions. Now, certainly individuals who want to make such relationships will celebrate this decision. Yet, their approval does not mean that marriage laws have been changed.
To say so, is nothing short of a lie.
Read your CCC regarding “FREEDOM”.
CCC: “1740 Threats to freedom. The exercise of freedom does not imply a right to say or do everything.
It is false to maintain that man, the subject of this freedom, is an individual who is fully self-sufficient and whose finality is the satisfaction of his own interests in the enjoyment of earthly goods.
Moreover, the economic, social, political, and cultural conditions that are needed for a just exercise of freedom are too often disregarded or violated. Such situations of blindness and injustice INJURE the MORAL LIFE and involve the strong as well as the weak in the temptation to sin against charity.
By deviating from the moral law man violates his own freedom, becomes imprisoned within himself, disrupts neighborly fellowship, and rebels against divine truth.”
CCC: ” 2526 So called moral permissiveness rests on an erroneous conception of human freedom;
the necessary precondition for the development of true freedom is to let oneself be educated in the moral law. ……”.
That’s nice, but there is a distinction between what is legal and what is moral.
Even the CCC recognizes this truth when it teaches us that it is immoral to compel attendance at Church services (or any other religious ceremony) through force of law and threat of punishment.
Now, failure to attend mass is a mortal sin for a catholic according to catholic doctrine. And, the duty to honor God is part of the Church’s interpretation of natural law.
Thus, this instruction from the CCC teaches us that what is moral for the state to compel people to do by mechanism of force (legal, military, police power ect), is—at least—somewhat distinct from Catholic doctrine.
Consequently, you cannot simply cite the CCC and expect its teaching to be automatically moral to enforce through the power of the state.
When I was speaking of “freedom” in the above opinion, I was thinking in terms of US Constitutional law—and under that law I think this decision is correct.
You cannot arrest people and throw them in jail because there are 3 unrelated adults living in the same household. Not every such circumstance will involve a sexual relationship. Effectively, this law makes a presumption that any time this arrangement occurs, the individuals are flouting the laws against polyamorous relationships.
As for criminalizing polyamorous sex, the issue isn’t so much whether polyamorous relationships are moral or immoral. At a certain point failing to prevent certain immoral behaviors is better than the worse alternative of enabling the state to enforce such rules.
Imagine a world which decides masturbation is a criminal act (as per Catholic doctrine). How could this be effectively enforced without making our current NSA spying program look like stone knives?
Any spiritual “gain” from preventing people from masturbating would be overwhelmed by the abuses you would enable by creating the state infrastructure to enforce that law.
Lord Jesus Christ, only son of the Living God, have mercy on us, sinners.
Let us be charitable to one another in our comments – It is the command of Jesus Christ himself.
Concerning Polygamy: Let us pray for intercession from Peter ToRot of Papua NewGuinea who was murdered for one thing, opposing this practice.
Let us live as he said, “I have to fulfill my duty as a Church witness to Jesus Christ”
God bless all of you during this time of the birth of our saviour and rejoice.
Justin, thank you for reminding us about Blessed Peter ToRot of Papua NewGuinea. His life is one we lay Catholics, who are standing up for the truths of our Catholic faith, can be inspired by.
Blessed Peter ToRot pray for us!
JonJ, in response to your December 18, 2013 at 6:55 pm post, when you refer to “privacy rights” are you referring to the popular notion that “what someone does in the “privacy” of his own bedroom is nobody’s business but his”? If I am correct about this, then would you feel comfortable arguing that a man can not be prosecuted for committing murder, committing child abuse, counterfeiting money, making a bomb, etc. etc. in the privacy of his bedroom?!!!!!
No, I mean privacy rights as it is used in law.
Specifically, what it generally means is that there are certain aspects of life that should be free from government interference.
That doesn’t necessarily mean that everything that takes place behind closed doors is moral. In fact, I have no problem with the Church preaching against such behaviors.
However, when someone wants to empower the state to stop certain behaviors by force—that’s another matter. Many times the reason why privacy rights can make sense is if empower the state to stop such behaviors would require such invasive evidence collection that you have created a totalitarian and abusive government.
JonJ, did you know that contraception use to be illegal? We were much better off when it was.
Please read my statement of December 22, at 4:37am below.
PUBLIC ACTS should be controlled by the State (or local government).
You know, it just crossed my mind that someone ought to check into the sexual orientation of U.S. District Judge Clark Waddoup. In a related recent CalCatholic article talking about how many partners homosexuals have and their sick behaviors, this evil anti-Christian decision could have been arranged to satisfy the homosexuals hidden agenda to have their multiple same-sex union partners, legally in the eyes of the demented government officials.
JonJ, your personal interpretation of the CCC is lacking.
Rather than making personal statements, please always quote in entirety the pertainent CCC paragraphs and/or provide the CCC paragraph numbers.
Your generalities cause confusion and can be wrong.
Merely as an FYI – even President OBAMA does not adhere to the US Constitution. He rules with his Executive Orders.
I must agree that the Government can not enforce mortality, however they must not condone/enforce immorality either. Our Government has become an enabler for sin, rather than the “common good”.
When the Government decided smoking was evil (which it is not in moderation), they put out a very expensive long-term campaign against it.
Why don’t they put out a very long-term campaign ‘against sex outside of marriage’??? It would save trillions $$$$$$ in health care annually – sexually transmitted deseases, abortions, contraception and contraception’s side affects, etc.. etc.
The Government does have a responsibility for morality not immorality – in the laws that it passes.
jonJ – You are confusing freedom within the privacy of our own homes vs
public scandalous behavior that effects society and damages the common good.
CCC: ” 2286 Scandal can be provoked by laws or institutions, by fashion or opinion.
Therefore, they are guilty of scandal who establish laws or social structures leading to the decline of morals and the corruption of religious practice,
or to social conditions that, intentionally or not, make Christian conduct and obedience to the Commandments difficult and practically impossible.
This is also true of business leaders who make rules encouraging fraud, teachers who provoke their children to anger, or manipulators of public opinion who turn it away from moral values.”
I’m not sure why a recommendation to stay with the Church caused such an old lady fight above but I saw this anonymous comment on the Ascending Mount Carmel blog and would like to share it.
“Seeking to stay rooted in Christ and His truth above all else will not win the friendship of those whose comfort zone is uncharitable groupspeak and shared blindspots. In fact, it tends to strip us of these crutches and leave us feeling perhaps isolated, but never alone. In this certain kind of solitude, there is freedom to live as icon of the Trinity, less encumbered by false expectations and ideological alliances, with Christ and his Mother shining in our darkness, accompanied by a cloud of earthly and heavenly witnesses. This is our true life, far removed from politics and factionalism.”
The ‘old lady’ fight as you term it was set off because the push to just ‘stay in the Church and all will be well negates the necessity of the fullness of Faith. That is if the Church herself puts faith under a bushel, then ‘sticking with it’ can in reality present a real problem:
I am with the Church, but I am not with the Faith that the Church has been entrusted to impart. So who and what do I follow? It gets confusing, Anonymous. And it misleads the young – that’s why old ladies often can see it because they observe their children and grandchildren adopting that which is not Catholic. That is they see the twisted fruit. Others, conversely, as they see the twisted fruit of their own family tree, take comfort when the Church attempts to teach something new – that is, don’t judge. The sins you see your kids/grandkids committing aren’t sins anymore and/or aren’t that bad.
The quote of staying rooted in Christ and His Truth is precisely the point, Anonymous. And when those entrusted with the Truth attempt to mask it and/or hush it up so as not to offend people, that’s a problem.
So keep a watch on the ‘old lady fight’ for whereas you might not be old or a lady, life will beat you up after a time, more so than you already are, and you will be filled with questions/concerns too.
Ann Malley, Ok, you say you are with the Church but not with the Faith that the Church has been entrusted to impart. I would say that is true for many Catholics. This is the smoke of Satan. Even those who are well-instructed in the Faith have things that they don’t understand.
jonJ and others: MARRIAGE is a PUBLIC act, with PUBLIC records, and other PUBLIC ramifications.
No government should publically support sodomy marriage, fornication, adultery, or any other immoral act.
What consenting adults do in the privacy of their own home, is their own business. They have the right to choose Hell over Heaven.
However CHIDRLEN are NOT CONSENTING ADULTS.
In polygamy and homosexual adoption or other situations where children are involved, this then is no longer a private matter only between consenting adults.
When children are abused by being taught immoral acts, just like any other abuse it is a matter for the State to step in.
Taxpayers should not be REQUIRED to support polygamy or other immoral acts with their tax dollars (which is also a public act) to support their sinful lifestyle. Many polygamists support their lifestyle of more than one wife and their many illegimate children with our tax dollars – aid to dependent children, Medicaid, and a myriad of other governmental hand-out/entitlement programs.