The following comes from a March 10 posting on Father John Malloy’s blog.
The March 3 issue of Catholic San Francisco included an interview by reporter Rick DelVecchio with the Jesuit Father Paul Crowley. The subject was a spring quarter course Crowley is heading at Stanford University called Vatican II: Catholicism Meets Modernity.
The article begins: “Catholics’ contentiousness over Vatican II reflects not merely factionalism but a crisis of meaning at the heart of the church, said Jesuit Father Paul Crowley, Jesuit Community professor of Religious Studies at Santa Clara University and a visiting professor at Stanford.
‘Vatican II in the last 30 years has become the issue that, for various reasons, seems to be dividing the church into various factions, and it strikes me that the real issue is not Vatican II per se but something deeper than that, something that Vatican II addresses, which is ecclesiology,’ Father Crowley said in an interview with Catholic San Francisco. ‘It’s really the very nature of the church and how we arrive at consensus as a church.’”
Father Crowley did not specify who constituted the “factions” to which he referred and Mr. Del Vecchio did not ask. That’s too bad, because the half hath not been told, and readers of an Archdiocesan newspaper deserve more. A quick glance at the course presenters reveals that a more accurate title would have been Modernity vs. Catholicism. While the presenters give a clear enough idea of what is meant by “modernity” and certainly represent the modern “faction,” there is simply no Catholic faction to be found. A brief description of the first six presenters:
The April 1 presenter is Jesuit Father Stephen Schloesser, an associate professor in history at (Jesuit) Loyola University of Chicago. His subject is Against Forgetting: Memory, History, and Vatican II. In 2004, as Massachusetts was debating the legalization of counterfeit marriage, Father Schloesser sent a lengthy letter to Massachusetts state Senator Marian Walsh. An excerpt, from the website Queering the Church: “It seems helpful to me to recall what traditional marriage is: it is a community’s legal arrangement in order to pass on property. In it, a male acquires (in the sense of owning and having sovereignty over) a female for the sake of reproducing other males who will then inherit property.”
The April 8 presenter is Father Mark Francis who served as superior general of the international Viatorian Community of brothers and, from 2000-2012. Before that, he was professor of liturgy at the Catholic Theological Union in Chicago. His subject will be Reforming the Church through the Liturgy: The Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy. In a 2007 article in The Tablet (London), Father Francis wrote about Pope Benedict XVI’s support of the Extraordinary Form Mass in the Summorum Pontificum. From Father Francis’ article: “In short, Summorum Pontificum weakens the unity of the Church by failing to support the foundational insights of the Second Vatican Council.” He also asserts that the (ex) Holy Father “is not a trained liturgist.” Father Francis is currently visiting scholar at the Ignatian Center for Jesuit Education at Santa Clara.
The April 15 presenter is Gary Macy, professor of theology at Santa Clara University and chair of the Religious Studies Department. His subject will be The Reconsideration of Orders by Vatican II. Professor Macy is a prolific writer on “the reconsideration of orders”: he is the author of The Hidden History of Women’s Ordination, co-author of Women Deacons: Past Present, and Future; and co-author of A History of Women and Ordination.
One of the April 22 presenters is Catherine Murphy, associate professor in Religious Studies at Santa Clara. Her subject will be Unexpected and Obvious: The Dei Verbum Doorway and What Lies Beyond. On March 26, 2006 Professor Murphy joined Father Cameron Ayers, SJ, and professor Vincent Pizzuto at the “Alienated Catholics” forum at San Francisco’s St. Agnes Church. In her presentation, Murphy described herself as “…a Catholic lesbian Scripture scholar struggling with a faith tradition that grounds my hope and a church that poisons it.” Since the forum, Ayers has left the Catholic Church, while Pizzuto was ordained a priest in the Celtic Christian Church, and elevated to the chair of Theology and Religious Studies at the (Jesuit) University of San Francisco. As noted, The “Catholic lesbian scripture scholar” Murphy serves as associate professor of Religious Studies at the (Jesuit) Santa Clara University.
The April 29 presenter is the ex-Jesuit Paul Lakeland, professor of Catholic Studies and founding director of the Center for Catholic Studies at (Jesuit) Fairfield University. His subject is the Rediscovery of the Laity: Overcoming Baptismal Amnesia. In 2009, Lakeland was a public supporter of Connecticut’s Senate Bill 1089 which would have wrested control of parishes away from the Bishops. Anthony Picarello, general counsel of the U.S. Conference of Bishops described SB 1089 as “blatantly unconstitutional” and said that it “targets the Catholic Church explicitly and exclusively, and attempts to use the civil law to alter Church governance.” At the time Catholic News Agency reported “The premise of the bill is remarkably similar to the 2009-2010 Voice of the Faithful Strategic Plan.” According to the VOTF website, Lakeland is on its board of advisors. In 2012, Lakeland told The Daily Beast that the U.S. Catholic Bishops position in defense of marriage is “… an argument that’s based more on fear or repugnance.”
The May 6 presenter is professor Jerome Baggett. His subject is “In the Wake of Vatican II: Institutional and Cultural Dilemmas among American Catholics.” Baggett is best known for his book Sense of the Faithful: How American Catholics Live Their Faith, a survey of Bay Area parishes, including San Francisco’s Most Holy Redeemer. In a striking example of Modernity vs. Catholicism, Bagget’s survey not only found that 93% of MHR’s parishioners thought that one could be a good Catholic while committing homosexual acts (not surprising) but also that 34% thought one could be a good Catholic without believing in the real presence; and 28% without believing that Jesus Christ rose from the dead. Professor Baggett is professor of Religion and Society at the Jesuit School of Theology of Santa Clara University, located in Berkeley.
Course head Father Crowley himself carries more baggage than need be enumerated here. One example : on June 9, 2011 at the 66th Annual Convention of the Catholic Theological Society of America, he served as moderator for the session “When the Saints Come Marching Out: Same-Gender Relationships as an Embodiment of Christian Holiness.” That session was convened by the already-mentioned Reverend Vincent Pizzuto, of University of San Francisco. The presenters were Pizzuto and the ex-Jesuit priest James Nickoloff, College of the Holy Cross. In a 2009 lecture at the (Jesuit) Santa Clara University, Nickoloff opened by saying “In the interest of ‘full disclosure,’ let me make it clear that I write as a professional Catholic systematic theologian who is also a self-affirming gay man and legally married in Massachusetts.”
It will be noted that five of the six presenters (and Father Crowley himself) are professors at Jesuit universities. The sixth, Father Francis, is currently a visiting scholar at a Jesuit university.
Read more.
What is held in priority by the faithful mind? The Church or Vatican II?
The church is but a moonlike reflection of the sun, Jesus Christ, and it offers up only the light it receives from Our Lord, the source of the light. Vatican II is but a group of adult males gathering together to attempt to discern if they were reflecting or deflecting that light, and its dissemination to the faithful has been profoundly misinterpreted. Witness the gossamer filled with barefoot dancing girls, etc., etc., distortions of the light indeed.
The headline here is really misleading. Only one of the presenters listed could be construed as a Jesuit–and even he’s “ex”.
Dave N., Please note the last paragraph of the article:
“It will be noted that five of the six presenters (and Father Crowley himself) are professors at Jesuit universities. The sixth, Father Francis, is currently a visiting scholar at a Jesuit university.”
In addition, Fr. Schloesser is a Jesuit priest and Mr. Lakeland is an ex-Jesuit priest.
This is far from being a misleading headline.
Just because people teach at Jesuit institutions doesn’t mean they subscribe to Jesuit principles. Or that they are even good Catholics for that matter.
Neat article, sort of like a serpent zoo only in writing.
Faith-destroying Vatican II is what I had to live with all my life. The Jesuits have been trying to corrupt the Church since then. If you want to understand how they became so bad, read “The Jesuits : the Society of Jesus and the betrayal of the Roman Catholic Church” by Fr. Malachi Martin. It is a riveting book from Simon and Schuster and available at Amazon. Worth the time reading it.
Gratias,
The Second Vatican Council was not faith destroying. The Council, itself, is one of 20 holy ecumenical councils of the Church. The problem is that the Council was implemented poorly by Paul VI coupled with a rapid, degenerate culture shift that happened in the West a few years after the Council in the late 60s/early 70s.
I’ve found the actual documents of the Council to be excellent.
Steve what is it with people? Are people blind. When my dad was alive he too felt the same way as Gratias….are you calling them lairs, after all they would know the difference…..my dad was way older than my mum, so he was born in the 20’s, after the second Vatican Council, be stopped attending Mass, so that is what we were told because I wasn’t born yet. Before he married, he was actually studying in the seminary, he was Arabic, he knew about 7 languages. He then decided that the priesthood wasn’t for him.
Now I wouldn’t know or understand why because I grew up in the NO and it actually did build up my faith only because I had a wonderful grandmum who taught me the faith, Holy scriptures etc….I contribute that to my grandmum…..praise God that even though my dad didn’t attend Mass with us, we still attended. Our parish was within walking distance.
My grandmum always taught us not to miss Holy Mass. Praise God. : ) My grandmum lived in Michuacan, Mexico…so Mass was still reverent but in the USA it is different and we got to experience the difference at that time because when we visited my grandmum, she would attend daily mass and there were times that we did too. My grandmum taught us not to receive our Lord by hand and if we could, to go in the line where the priest was giving communion. I think that she dealt with many of the changes but I’m sure many of the faithful didn’t so well.
Steve I still want to make note that even though many are hurting til now, it is unfair for them to make a general statement like “the Vatican II is all bad”, no not at all, I grew up in that and I don’t feel that I am a bad seed or bad product from that, I love my faith, I just don’t appreciate the abuses but if we can go back in history, there have always been abuses.
But I do credit my faith is well formed and I’m still growing because I had wonderful few faithful who have contributed to these gifts of wisdom and knowledge. They came from very traditional backgrounds even traditional Charismatic.
Can anyone pinpoint the moment in time the Jesuits by and large apostasized from the Catholic faith? I would wager a guess the seeds of dissent started before Vatican II.
According to Our Most Blessed Mother in Her revelations to Blessed Mary of Agreda, the downfall of the Jesuits began with a Human Sciences priest, hm! does Pierre de Jardin sound familiar?
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
Oh, great, now we’re turning to private revelations to determine who’s been naughty and nice.
Keep the faith, my friends. Those who are entrusted to do so on behalf of the Roman Catholic Church cannot be trusted with certainty to do so.
In her presentation, Murphy described herself as “…a Catholic lesbian Scripture scholar struggling with a faith tradition that grounds my hope
and a church that poisons it.”
“In the interest of ‘full disclosure,’ let me make it clear that I write as a professional Catholic systematic theologian who is also a self-affirming gay man and legally married in Massachusetts.”
Sounds like the lavender mafia to me.Lets hear it for sodomy and sodomy marriage.The Jesuits seem to be in the vanguard for these
perversions.They seem to have the procreational function and the
excremental function confused.
Since our new Pontiff, Pope Francis, is a Jesuit, I would love to hear from priests such as Fr. Fessio and Fr. Pacqwa about him.
Could it be that the Holy Spirit chose a Jesuit to clean up the Jesuits?
Is Pope Francis the South American Bishop who banned communion in the hands in his Archdiocese?
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
Wow, Vatican II–the gift that just keeps on giving!
I actually went to Santa Clara University years ago. That so many of these Jesuits teach or on faculty there does not surprise me, but it does make me wonder if there is even a single orthodox priest who teaches at Santa Clara University? (Unfortunately I doubt it).
I don’t know much about the history of when the Jesuits went bad but are you sure and so confident to say that this stems from the Vatican II? Just asking because this is an area in which I am ignorant about.
What I don’t get is if the Jesuits are so bad as I have heard and read about their scandals why is our church still considering them Catholic? I don’t get that part….
Our New Pope Francis is a Jesuit!
Let us all pray that he will set our beloved Roman Catholic Church on the True Path to Redemption!
Surely the Cardinals are aware of the real problems facing the Church today?
The Pope and Cardinals as well as the Bishops must rule from the top down, and set the Church back on the straight and narrow path once again.
WE MUST ALL PRAY FOR THAT!
Fr. Crowley writes“ “contentiousness over Vatican II reflects . . . a crisis of meaning at the heart of the church.”
I have not seen any “crisis of meaning” in the Church since the Second Vatican Council. This is clearly the writer, Fr. Crowley, who is psychologically projecting his own personal “crisis of meaning” onto the Church.
The solution to this type of crisis is a good spiritual directer.
Will the next Pope deal with the Jesuits?
John that would be nice, if something could be done about their dissent…this is heavy on many hearts, these scandals are hard to comprehend as to why these orders are allowed to continue in our church. With all the modern technologies, I find it hard to believe that any Pope would not be aware of this? Unless those around him, keep him blind? I don’t get it.
JOHN, I think today’s news will give you a reassuring “yes” to your question — since the new Pope is a Jesuit himself!
Isn’t it exciting?
Surprise! The new pope IS a Jesuit! Remember, however, that not all Jesuits are bad. Most are intellectuals, which is not always a bad thing, my friends; many are rabble-rousers, and on occasion that is not a bad thing, depending on the situation. I am not here to defend Jesuits in general; but some are really good priests. Think of Father Mitch Pacwa, whom we all see on EWTN; this is a good and a holy man.
When I was growing up, prior to Vatican II, we all held Jesuits in the highest possible esteem; I don’t believe that Vatican II has anything at all to do with their “fall from grace,” so to speak, in the eyes of so many of us lay people, but rather has to do with the rebeliousness and overt disobedience from core Catholic teaching that we see in so many of our Jesuit priests, brilliant though they may be.
One Jesuit priest asked me to marry him, and I was dating a young man for whom he functioned as spiritual director! I barely knew him and of course turned him down, but that happened a handful of years after Vatican II and bore no relationship to that event insofar as I can tell.
I just received an e-mail moments ago from a Jesuit priest whom I consider a fine man and a dear personal friend, and of course he is delighted about the selection of our new pope. My feeling is that each Jesuit priest must be allowed to be considered a good priest (or not) based on his own individual merits, just as with any other human being, with perhaps a bit of leeway being granted to him at the outset, just as we do for any other priest, simply because he is a priest and thereby is known to be a man who has chosen to serve God for his life’s work.
The philosophy of considering a person innocent until proven guilty is a good way to view all persons, perhaps most especially priests, nuns and popes, and that goes even for Jesuits, my friends. I will admit that the company they have been known to keep is so frequently suspect that it can be a challenge to keep one’s mind and heart to the poor Jesuit priest and pope. However, this is a challenge less daunting than many we Catholics face on a daily basis and a worthy endeavor indeed, especially since few of us are as dedicated to serving God and our fellow man quite as fully as is the average priest.
MaryAnne,
Believe me, the good Jesuits suffer the most from the bad Jesuits.
I know of one, he will remain anonymous here, who actually told a bishop that he had to leave his teaching post at a prestigious Jesuit University or possibly loose his soul.
The holy Fr. John Hardon, S.J. is now safe in the hands of his Lord and His Mother, so I can say that he suffered greatly from the bad Jesuits. I knew him personally. I should say that I was gifted by God to know him personally.
I know the other Jesuits personally I mentioned above as well, but they are not yet safe, so they must remain anonymous.
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
Last week it was a Jesuit high school, Verbum Dei, now it’s the usual Jesuit colleges. Do the Jesuits run any elementary schools?
The sister…named Murphy who calls herself a lesbian…why would she feel compelled do this?…she is reveling in her shame, her own darkness and sinfulness…”by their fruits you shall recognize them”…
Title should be ‘Jesuits’ dominate Stanford’s Catholicism course.
Most of these men do not behave as Sons of St. Ignatius. They work to destroy what he worked to protect. Can they really be called his sons or rightfully bear his name?
Is it “Sister Catherine Murphy” or “Ms. Catherine Murphy,” I wonder?
I saw nothing about her being a Woman Religious.
Oh boy! Seems anything relating to the Jesuits has us all cringing. What ever happened to the Society of Jesus anyway? Was it Vatican II that opened up the door for them all to rush in?
God has a way of humbling us, doesn’t he?
LOL, Anon, you are so on target!
Talk about perfect timing!
We now have a Jesuit as pope. Either he will lead a reform of the Jesuits or their heterodox teaching will be reflected in the new pontiff. Domine, miserere nobis. +JMJ+
Actually, he is no longer a member of the Jesuits…
Paleobotanist,
What makes you say he is no longer a Jesuit?
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
Well, Clinton, aren’t we Mister Cheerful on this happy day?
The rest of the world is rejoicing at our new Holy Father, and you are predicting heterodoxy, doom, gloom, and bad food. Way to go.
Wtih the new deveopments in Rome today, we’re going to hear a lot about the Jesuits in the years to come.
God save our Pope Francis I…
Congratulations to the Jesuits, as one of their own, Pope Francis, begins his reign as the new Vicar of Christ! :)
I would be careful to compare our new Pope to the Jesuits from California since many of them haven’t been all that faithful, to congratulate them, one has to be careful to whom that congratulations goes out to, that order seems like it has two sides….
God bless our NEW POPE!
Abeca,
Re.: ” that order seems like it has two sides….”, once again you got that right!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
God Bless our new Pope, Pope Francis! He will light the way and all of these heretics will go back in hiding.
“Remember, however, that not all Jesuits are bad.”
Oh, dear — that’s a whopper!
I’m sure the Holy Father will be so incredibly relieved to read this post.