The following comes from a September 3 story on LifeSiteNews.com.
A series of videos sponsored by the Jesuit Roman Catholic religious order, titled “Who are we to judge,” in reference to a comment made earlier this year by Pope Francis about homosexual priests, has come under fire for promoting the idea that there is no conflict between being a faithful Catholic and being an active homosexual.
The video series was produced by the Ignatian News Network, a YouTube channel that is a joint project of the US Jesuits and Loyola Productions in Los Angeles, to feature videos about the work and mission of the American Jesuits.
Prominently featured in the series is Arthur Fitzmaurice, the head of the Catholic Association for Lesbian and Gay Ministry (CALGM), a group that is currently under censure by their local Catholic bishop for misrepresenting Catholic teaching. Fitzmaurice says in the videos that his “coming out” experience as a homosexual “strengthened my faith journey”. At first he said he had asked God, “how do I leave this cross behind me, how do I become a straight man?” which he said changed in time to “a realisation that God made me to be this gay person”.
Fitzmaurice says that his group only wants “to create a Church where all are welcome at all parishes. And once they’re there, not just being welcomed, but a place where they’re going to thrive.”
However, in June of last year, Bishop Salvatore Cordileone of Oakland, where the gay ministry is based, issued a statement saying that the group cannot be regarded as “authentically Catholic” due to their opposition to Catholic teaching.
In letters to the gay ministry board, Cordileone requested that each member “strive to clearly present Catholic doctrine on homosexuality in its fullness” and “profess personally to hold and believe, and practice all that the holy Catholic Church teaches, believes and proclaims to be true, whether from the natural moral law or by way revelation from God through Scripture and tradition”. The group’s leadership twice told Cordileone they refused to sign such a declaration.
Father Shenan Boquet, president of Human Life International, told LifeSiteNews.com that the video series presents an unbalanced view of Catholic teaching.
“It is good to point out that the Church nowhere condemns people who are attracted to members of the same sex,” he said. “As the Church says, it is not the person with same-sex attraction that is disordered, it is the attraction itself that is disordered, and homosexual acts themselves are always gravely sinful.”
But he said that it is a failure of pastoral charity and genuine brotherly love to “create the impression that sinful behavior is somehow morally acceptable in the Church, or that an identity based on disordered sexuality must be celebrated by the Church.”
….The first video in the series starts with an interview with Father James Martin, S.J., a prominent US media personality and Jesuit priest in New York, who has made advocating for the normalisation of homosexuality in the Catholic Church a prominent feature of his career.
Martin says that “many LGBT people” “have very deep spiritual lives and are Christians.” He also denies a conflict between the Catholic Church and the homosexual movement, saying, “It’s not as if you have atheist gays on one side, and religious or spiritual straight people on the other.”
Martin also praises the movement in the Catholic Church in the US and elsewhere that is a feature of many parishes that encourages homosexuals to believe they can be actively “gay” and faithful as Catholics, without contradiction. “The idea that someone could come out and be honest and transparent and open about the way that God created them, I think is terrific. I think it’s something that the Catholic Church can support,” he says.
Martin adds, “If a music minister is gay, it doesn’t matter [to other parishioners] if they’re homosexual…it matters that they did a great job at the [liturgy of the] Easter Vigil.
“If a spiritual director is gay, it doesn’t matter that they’re homosexual. It matters that they’ve brought people to God through prayer.”
Episode 2 of the series features John Paul Godges, a “gay Catholic” author, who says at the opening of Episode 2, “My Christian faith, of course, has been a source of strength in my spiritual journey throughout my life as a gay man. My experience as a gay man has been a source of strength in my Christian journey.”
“A gay identity can inspire and deepen a Christian faith.”
Godges says, “I often tell people that being Catholic is like being American. And just because some politician prosecutes a misbegotten war, I’m not going to renounce my citizenship and flee to Canada. I’m going to stay and fight and communicate and converse and speak at retreats and do whatever I can to promote the best that’s in the Catholic Church…I’m not going to let anyone take that away from me.”
In the third installement of the video he says that he hopes “that in the future lesbian and gay and bisexual and transgender people can be open and visible in the Church, and not have it be any big deal.”
Father Boquet told LifeSiteNews.com that he agrees that people who experience same-sex attraction aren’t “excluded” from the Church. He added, however, that there can never be any acceptance of homosexual behaviour….
To read entire posting, click here.
Long-time Vatican observer Sandro Magister has commented with concern on his web site (chiesa.com) about Pope Francis’ tendency to make off-the-cuff remarks. Now this passing remark (“Who am I to judge”) is being used by the change-agent forces in the Cath Church. Well-known dissident Jesuit priest Thomas Reese the very same day on NPR seized on this papal comment to halloo a “new view” on more or less active homosexual activity by individuals in the CC, creating a contradiction with the Catechism of the CC which calls even the inclination “disordered”. Quo Vadis, Bergoglio?
I’ve found a really interesting website that I visit occasionally. Written by a Benedictine monk/priest living in England…he wrote a piece called Pope of our punishment in June. https://hughosb.wordpress.com/
The Benedictine monk’s article is right on, and I never thought I would agree with Hilary Clinton on much of anything, but she is right about the situation that happened with Russia, Bin Ladin and the United States in Afghanistan, although she is wrong about the strike on Syria. We did the same thing to the Shah of Iran. We propped him up, he allowed Christians to worship freely, then Jimmy Carter got the “bright” idea of trashing him. Will we never learn? Let’s face it, in Islamic countries there seems to be always a scenario between gassing the rebels and cutting off the hands and feet of thieves and female abuse (strict Sharia Law). In other words both sides are mostly bad, but the rebels are probably worse.
And the Muslims need to get rid of that idea of a “heavenly brothel” before any reputable religion will want to have anything to do with them. It is in the Koran and please do not tell me it is not. I read a very official edition of the Koran in English way before 9/11, and even Muslim websites speak about it. Sean Hannity is right about that.
Pope Francis’ impromptu interview on his flight home from Brazil is beginning to bear bitter fruit. It was predictable, too predictable. This month’s issue of the Valley Catholic devoted several articles to the pope’s remark “Who am I to judge?”. The slant was palpably in the direction desired by the liberal faction.
Having heard his entire interview, the comment was taken totally out of context. Think of the woman at the well. Jesus did not judge her. He spoke the truth, Dialogue… and nothing but compassion and love. But just as they do the Sacred Scriptures, those who serve the evil one twisted one sentence out of context.
Timothee: Whatever a pope says to a journalist will be interpreted in a fashion consistent with the journalist’s predilections. This is one of the immutable facts of life. I don’t understand why any pope would ever open himself up to a journalist. Journalism is by definition a secular avocation that can be counted upon to spin a pope’s words into a liberal pretzel. Why do you think the homoerotic faction in the church is so thrilled with this new pope? And why they despised Benedict for calling their vice “filth”?
Those who serve the evil one usually say that Jesus did not condemn a certain person to make it seem like it is okay to do what that person did. Those same persons never mention the following Bible passage:
 Know you not that the unjust shall not possess the kingdom of God? Do not err: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers,  Nor the effeminate, nor liers with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor railers, nor extortioners, shall possess the kingdom of God.
This passage makes it clear that certain things are not okay with God. Those who try to imply otherwise are liars.
US Jesuits, Loyola Productions in Los Angeles, LMU….figures. Dominus ac Redemptor Noster anyone?
Would that there were a ‘Welcome Home’ Banner for faithful followers of the Pope & Magisterium…
– Instead of a cold shoulder and shove out the door by the ‘Happy Campers’ living off the Sunday Collection, and using it the other 6 days a week to trash said Magisterium & Pope.
Martin adds, “If a music minister is (*a feces focused homo-anal coprophile activist), it doesn’t matter [to other parishioners] if they’re (homo-anal activists)…it matters that they did a great job at the [liturgy of the] Easter Vigil.”
Hmmmm… I once attended a parish that had a great Sunday Evening Music program, and got a lot of people like me (couldn’t carry a tune with a wheelbarrow) to sing outside of the shower.
However – the day-job ‘music man’ was an uber pouf – and I used to think of his piano solos as ‘Liberace Camps Up the Church’, although what this had to do with Worship of anyone but that farcical Aids spreading Homo-Anal monstrosity – escaped many of us.
One day – during a Prayer before a Parish seminar on the New Mass and related changes, I dared to Include Pope Benedict and His Wise Moral Teachings as one of the spoken pleas for the Lord’s special Grace & Mercy.
Uber-Pouf immediately got up in a huff and stormed out in a huge Homo-Anal Hissy Fit, letting everyone know how inappropriate it was to mention ‘that man’ inside Muffy’s Church – if Not God’s.
So the title of the series is called “Who are we to judge.” I assume they are using the following definition for the verb “to judge” — “to form an opinion about.” Another definition for the verb “to judge” is, — “to pass judgment upon in a court of law”. Since homosexual activist clearly have no problem using the courts to pass judgement, I would judge that the above title refers to the act of forming an opinion about something.
So if the title refers to the first definition of ‘to judge”, then I would say that everyone who is able to think clearly has the God given ability to form an opinion about pretty much anything. So I’ll answer the question “Who are we to Judge?” We are God’s children, who have been given an intellect to judge.
In my case, I have judged that the homosexual act is an abomination to God. I have also judged that the act of putting a penis into an anus of another is disgusting. I have also judged that while someone may be tempted to put his penis into the anus of another, this temptation does not force him to do it. I further have formed the opinion, i.e. “judged”, that God’s grace is enough to overcome any temptation.
What about lesbians? Are you just as judgemental about them? Or about gay people who don’t do “the homosexual act”? Or about straight people who stray from the missionary position? How judge you them?
YFC, It appears to me, from your response to what I wrote, on 9/4/13 at 7 pm that you “judged” my post as offensive!
Fear not! As a human being with a thinking brain, I have indeed formed an opinion about, i.e. “judged” these addition categories of human behaviors you have just raised, as no doubt you, YFC, have as well. My above post, however, was in response to the article and this issue of “judging” i.e. “to form an opinion. I was debunking the lie homosexual activist like to tell us that “to judge” is bad. I was simply shedding light on this issue.
You obviously didn’t watch the videos because there is nothing about homosexual sex in there. (That was the criticism of the article. It was hoped that the videos would reiterate the Church’s teaching on the sinfulness of homosexual sex acts.) One of the men talks about how he came to terms with his unwanted same sex attraction. One of the priests interviewed said that the problems that gays have in the Church is not so much about the Church’s teaching on homosexuality but about the bigotry of individual members of the Church. The point is that gays are welcome in the Church but they don’t feel welcome. I have only heard one gay slur at a church function. It was made by an elderly man. But maybe if you are gay, things bother you. I know other people that have expressed that don’t feel welcome at church-singles, the poor, the aged, the traditional minded, people with dysfunctional families, families with small children, teens, the widowed, the newcomers. The reason isn’t because people say bad things about them (although sometimes they do.) It is because the activities and sermons seem geared to a population that they don’t belong to. And because no one welcomes them or talks to them or invites them to things. But when you are gay (yes, even chaste) if you do get included, you always have in the back of your mind, “what if they knew, would they still accept me.”
Anonymous, yes, it is true that I have not watched the videos. I did read the following, however: “Prominently featured in the series is Arthur Fitzmaurice, the head of the Catholic Association for Lesbian and Gay Ministry (CALGM), a group that is currently under censure by their local Catholic bishop for misrepresenting Catholic teaching.”
Anonymous, NOWHERE in Catholic teaching does it teach that it is ok to “demean” anyone. Period. So if the videos are indeed misrepresenting Catholic teaching, then I have deduced that either they are telling people to demean some groups of people, (which I highly doubt to be the case), or they are teaching that Homosexuals who put their penises into the anus’ of others are to be accepted by everyone in the Church.
As to the quote from the video you referred to “the problems that gays have in the Church is not so much about the Church’s teaching on homosexuality but about the bigotry of individual members of the Church.”, I only have this to say; homosexuals should consider using the proper word for the fearsome behavior they are rightly opposing. They might want to consider using the term “character assassination” or maybe “demean” or “debase”, but certainly not “bigotry”.
Bigot – A person who is intolerant, esp. in matters of religion, race, or politics.
Demean – To debase in dignity or stature.
Debase- To lower in character, quality or value; degrade.
Please keep this in mind as well, while I do not think it is possible to be a bigot toward oneself, it certainly is possible to debase oneself by one’s own behavior.
The videos do not misrepresent Catholic teaching; they do not go into Catholic teaching. That was the one complaint about them in the article. If you would read the article and watch the videos your comments would be much more relevant, even if you disagree. The videos take less than 15 minutes.
Tracy, CALGM does not have a local Catholic bishop. It is a national organization. The link refers to a dinner that the bishop of Minneapolis canceled. Archbishop Cordileone, when he was bishop of Oakland, threatened them with declaring them not authentically Catholic, but I cannot find anything that says the declaration was made. According to Arthur Fitzmaurice, “The group never speaks anything contrary to Catholic teaching.” This was an interesting conversation in the Church that kind of fizzled out.
That is not a very thorough definition of a bigot. It’s real meaning can include someone who is intolerant of other groups but it really means someone who is very attached to their own opinions and prejudices. In general usage it is used to mean people who speak or behave in a manner that seems intolerant or prejudiced but it may be out of ignorance. Many people have false ideas or stereotypes about other groups or even their own. There are lots of stereotypes about Catholics and a lot of bigotry. Sometimes people make bigoted remarks when they are not really a bigot; they just do not realize that what they say is offensive. CNN recently ran a series where people wrote in to tell about their experiences of racism. It became very obvious that most people say insensitive things out of ignorance or intending humor and do not intend to hurt others. Likewise, it became obvious that when one of these remarks came at a time in life when they were vulnerable, it could mess someone up for decades and have a negative impact on every area of their life. If you hear that someone is gay and you automatically think that they have anal sex, then you may in your ignorance, say something insensitive and bigoted, thinking that you are doing a work of God. It happens a lot on this website. God bless you.
Anonymous, your first two examples of bigotry do fall under the definition I provided, which is referring to religion and race. I did say that a Christian should never demean nor debase ANYONE, PERIOD! As far as your example about someone automatically thinking that all homosexuals are having anal sex, when that happens, it would be called stereotyping.
Anonymous, I agree with you that many different, as you say, “populations” of individuals don’t “feel” welcomed at church. I wonder if the “self-esteem” as well as the “multi-cultural” movements might be somewhat responsible for this. Even you admit that this lack of “feeling welcome” stems mostly from listening to sermons that don’t “apply to their situation” or that there aren’t activities which include the particular “population” of people they identify with, or that they aren’t invited to things.
As I fall under the category of being “a single adult” as well as a “newcomer” to my current parish, I think that those who avoid the church for the reasons you mention in your post might be missing the point of Catholic worship and fellowship altogether. Of course, leaders in the modern church hold some responsibility for this as misunderstanding as well, since they too, have too often adopted the secular view of things.
As one who first identifies myself as “Catholic”, what is most important to me is that the priest speaks English, accurately interprets Scripture in light of Church teaching, is obedient to the Church and Her teachings, and that he encourages his flock to grow in virtue. Thank God, I have found such a parish. As far as parish activities go, they are clearly listed in the bulletin and often have an invitation such as “all are welcome”. Some are activities and some are Devotions.
I didn’t say they avoided Church. They feel unwelcome. They go to Mass and feel unwelcome. And yes, their lack of self confidence and their fear of others enter into it as well.
Going to Mass or Eucharistic Adoration is not supposed to be about “us”.
It is about worshipping God alone. Giving our full attention to Him.
Your priorities are mixed up if you think someone has to make you “feel” welcome.
Socialization should take place outside, so others can continue to pray to the Lord without distraction.
The first 3 Commandments of God:
1. “You shall worship the Lord your God and Him only shall you serve.”
2. “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.”
3. “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.”
ANNE, it would be nice if everyone was so focused on Jesus and being in God’s presence that it did not matter what else went on. The way you develop that fortitude is by being presented with some pretty jarring things. Many people don’t make it. They leave. For those who stay, yes, eventually they realized that it is all about Jesus and they offer up their feelings of being unwelcome (or whatever else) in union with Jesus’ sufferings. He was often unwelcome, too. Still is.
Gays have no “right” to think they deserve special attention, above all the rest of us sinners. This public need to flaunt their temptations and sins is due to those in the radical homosexual movement.
All sinners are welcome in the Church, must repent of their sins and promise not to sin again.
There are all kinds of sexual and other mortal sins.
No one need know about your sins except your Confessor.
We must all remember that “temptations” (including temptations regarding same sex attraction, pornography, fornication, adultery) – are not sins unless ACTED upon. Action includes sustained impure thoughts.
Its scary when someone says that they feel un welcomed? What is that suppose to mean? Are they wanting special treatments because they want to be accepted by their lifestyle choices? If it’s about Jesus, then no one will feel that way. No ONE! One has to question what is it that they are trying to achieve? If someone suffers with homosexual disorders, if they go to church functions and do not promote or impose immoral lifestyles then no problem but if they want others to accept them in public display about their sexual desires, then they are not going to church for spiritual growth but they are wanting something more, they are wanting others to sin too by wanting them to accept their sexual choices. In a church community, any promotion of sin is not to be blessed at all.
Bad will Pride is the root of all evil! One good example is when people lack humility. The prideful person says things like “God made them that way” “gay’s feel un welcomed” The prideful person seeks acceptance of same sex relationships.
The person seeking to be humble is humble enough to admit that God did not create “gay”….a humble person edifies with love God’s plan and God’s natural law, the prideful person denies them. We may not understand all sin or why or how…..but the humble person does not deny it’s existence and is humble enough to trust God and not deny the truth.
Humble people go where they are geographically assigned to go. They don’t leave because they feel unwelcome or because another parish tickles their ears. It may be the devil who makes them uncomfortable to try to get them to leave the Church. People in difficult circumstances take strength from knowing that whatever their difficulty, God will use it for good. It does not matter whether people are born that way or become that way in childhood or teenage years. It is not something that they should be treated differently for. It is not something one chooses although one should not act on it. You will like a post on Mark Shea’s blog about a person who had success with reparation therapy. It is called “another reader writes to describe his experience.”
Good post PETE.
I agree with that remark. Let God do the judging. Enjoy suckers!
We are charged with being evangelizers of the Gospel. I am oblidged to tell you that as sure as I ‘suck’ God did destroy Sodom with fire from heaven. You have been warned. Read the first words in the rite of babtism. “Do you reject Satan & all his lies?”
Before Jesuits twist the Holy fathers words, lets review them. What was reported by the Huffing & Puffing Post and all the Media is If a Person is gay who am I to judge him
The Real words of Pope Francis are
It was important to “distinguish between a person who is gay and someone who makes a gay lobby,” he said. “A gay lobby isn’t good.”
Further he said
“A gay person who is seeking God, who is of good will — well, who am I to judge him?” the pope said. “The Catechism of the Catholic Church explains this very well. It says one must not marginalize these persons, they must be integrated into society. The problem isn’t this (homosexual) orientation — we must be like brothers and sisters. The problem is something else, the problem is lobbying either for this orientation or a political lobby or a Masonic lobby.”
Are you in support of a Gay Lobby? Clearly, the Holy Father likening the gay lobby to the masons is not good for those that are not of good will and seek to profane the holy church by seeking the acceptance the sinful lifestyle. Remember being a Freemason automatically excommunicates you from the Catholic Church, its equivalent to procuring an abortion or assisting in one.
The Holy Church will never celebrate sin. The Holy Father too will never celebrate sin
If you are of good will, read the Holy father’s words carefully in the light of his churches teaching.
What does that have to do with me? I am not trying to use an authoritarian police state to shove sodomy down people’s throats. Perhaps you got me confused with someone else.
Let God do the Judging? That is accusing others of Sitting on God’s throne!
Well, when you put it like that, yes, that would be about right!
No, that just means that I have no problem with God judging them. That’s all.
Sorry, SkiVen…I got it this time, and I chuckled, but I don’t think West. knows your style.
It’s about time we accept gays and lesbians as brothers and sisters in the Catholic Church. Jesus never said a word against homosexuals, because He understood that that’s the way they are born, what can they do? We have to follow Jesus’ teaching: Love one another, accept one another with no exceptions.
Francesca Fontes, did Jesus “accept” the Scribes and Pharisees even when they opposed his teaching “with NO exceptions?
–Why did Jesus call them a “brood of vipers?”
–Why did Jesus tell them in John 8:44 “You are from your father the devil, and you choose to do your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks according to his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.” Francesca, in your view is this an example of Jesus “accepting them without exception?”
–How would you explain the Spiritual Work of Mercy which says, Admonish the Sinner?
–You ask that since that’s the way they “homosexuals” are born, what can they do? I would answer the way Jesus did, they should not marry i.e. they should live a celibate life. God’s grace and mercy makes this possible. Look up Matthew 19:12
Loving one another as taught by Jesus has nothing to do with sexual activity.
When you truly Love someone, you will want him or her to get to Heaven for eternity not Hell.
Admonishing sinners, Instructing the Uniformed, and Counseling the Doubtful are 3 of the Spiritual Works of Mercy.
Never Tolerate Sin. If you tolerate sin, you do not love yourself or your neighbor.
Bad acts, not temptations will send a person to hell.
The way they are born? That’s a defensive delusional myth. Homosexuality has exploded with the explosion of divorce rates and the breakup of the family. That phenomena in turn has been linked to the explosion in the use of contraceptives. It all links back to good fashioned feminism. After all, as feminism denies the differences between the sexes, it ultimately must deny heterosexuality itself which is the ultimate manifestation of those differences.
I really think it’s a silly thing to even imagine that homosexuality has “exploded” because of contraception. I’m not even sure what you mean by “exploded”, but if you are saying that the numbers of gay people have increased recently, I think there is no evidence to support that. The numbers of gays who are out of the closet has exploded, I’ll grant you. But they came out because they felt it important to not walk around telling a lie to others about themselves, but to be honest. How you believe that is somehow connected to contraception is quite the stretch.
Then why did he obliterate Soddom with Fire?
He had an excess of fire and brimstone that day and didn’t know what else to do with it.
YFC you won’t be so smug when facing Christ at His judgment seat… I hope I get to see that….
And while you watch, Canisius, I will extend a hand and invite you inside the gates with me. Not because we’ve earned it, but because Christ merited for us his unworthy servants, seats at the eternal banquet.
Presumption of God’s mercy is a mortal sin YFC, you actually believe you will make to heaven while admitting to engage in sodomy and being unrepentant about it ?? Seriously YFC do you even go to confession???? I will gladly refuse your hand, I know I will spending some serious time in Purgatory…
Canisius, Why do you engage one of such ill will? This man admits to living in a homosexual lifestyle; he actively promotes homosexual behavior on this site; thereby, leading others into sin. If proclaiming such sins were not enough, he goes on by revealing that he receives the Eucharist. Now, he boasts that Heaven is his, offering you an invitation, if only you will take his hand. Good grief!
YFC, I don’t think that Canisius is interested in going inside the gates of hell with you. Your smart aleck response to being reminded of God’s justice will not help you avoid that place.
Bean-o might have helped . . . .
Why would someone who espouses and celebrates actions of the evil one aganist the Holy Church call themselves our fellow Catholic?
Mocking Christ and his flock perhaps?
What does it say in the Bible?
This is a ridiculous assertion. There is NO BIOLOGICAL EVIDENCE that people are born “gay” and have no choice but to play-out their homo-erotic fantasies which are gravely contrary to the natural law.
Francesca, some believe Jesus’ supposed non-mention of homosexuality implies active homosexuality is OK. This reflects a sub-Christian view of Scripture. This wrongly imagines only the Gospels are God’s Word. His disciples’ letters specifically mention homosexuality; Jesus, referring to His disciples says “he who hears you, hears me”.
Jesus said nothing specific concerning sex with animals or incest or pedophilia. Are we to presume these are acceptable behaviors ?
Jesus may have indirectly referred to active homosexuality when mentioning general immorality (porneia in Mark 7:21-23.). Some scholars believe 1st century Jews understood porneiai as a short-hand means to refer to the list of Levitical sexual prohibitions, which included sex with animals, incest, and homosexuality. Jesus did preached against homosexual acts – he included it with bestiality and incest.
Unlike divorce and adultery, Jewish teaching concerning homosexuality was undivided and the incidents of homosexuality probably scarce, it is more plausible to me that (unlike divorce/adultery) incest, sex with animals, and homosexuality were not prominent Jewish 1st century issues. However, when His disciples preached to the Gentiles, they encountered incest and homosexuality – and preached against it.
If homosexuality has a biological component, like all disorders, it is a consequence of Original Sin. Death, disease, disorders were not part of God’s created intent, but consequences of Man’s Fall.
Francesca, God can create good out of the evil caused by Original Sin of Man and the Fallen Angels. God can create good despite anything the devil throws at Him and His creation.
Consider John 9:1-3:
As he went along, he saw a man who had been blind from birth. His disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he should have been born blind?” “Neither he nor his parents sinned,” Jesus answered, “he was born blind so that the works of God might be revealed in him.”
Living with a homosexual inclination and committed to chastity is a mighty work of God that has the potential to change the course of the history of God’s people and of the entire world. I truly admire such a person. However, like the man born blind, their affliction isn’t a “gift,” it is a disorder, but through them, God gives great gifts to His people.
He never said a word about sinfulness of incest, but He didn’t have too the same applies for gays and lesbians
This was all very predictable when this Pope, who by the way does not even want to be called Pope just call me Jorge. This is turning into a disaster of a Papacy, which most of us new it would be.
Pope Frances did say on the plane interview, “who am I to judge?,” BUT in 2010, as Archbishop of Buenos Aires, Pope Frances sent a letter to the Buenos Aires monasteries in which he stated the following about “gay marriage:” ‘it’s a machination of the FATHER OF LIES (Lucifer) that seeks to confuse and deceive the children of God.’ So why did he say what’s attributed to him while being interviewed on the plane? You tell me, I don’t have an answer. Btw, the quote from 2010 was reported on the NEWADVENT website about the same time that WYD concluded. The Pope is also reported as being VERY aware of a certain “GAY MAFIA” located within the Vatican and composed of Cardinals. So It s/be quite obvious to anyone w/even a modicum of Catholic spirituality and common sense that we’re in a whole heap of trouble; and so it would behoove all of us who’re still Orthodox Catholics that we turn in humility to Our Lady of Divinity, the CO-REDEMPTRIX of the human race, w/great power given to her by Her God-Man Son, and say copious prayers to her as Mediatrix, in order that Her Divine Son may save us from, among many other things, ourselves. GOD BLESS ALL, MARKRITE
Well, on a more positive note, the wonderful Friars of the Immaculate Conception just posted up a series of 10 videos you can view for free (or download the .mp3 audio files) of the 2013 Courage/EnCourage Conference. Just visit Airmaria dot com then click “Conferences” on the left, and you can view these marvelous videos. Two members of the Courage program’s awesome testimonies are included, as well as talks by Dawn Eden, Fr. Emmerich Vogt OP, Fr. Paul Check, Fr. Paul Scalia, Dr. Bill Consiglio, Sr. Marysia Weber, Dr. J. Budziszewski, and Bishop Levoir. Pax!
I guess St. Paul’s Epistle to the Romans Chapter 1 verses 26 through 32 about the evils of homosexuality can now be ignored by the modern church eh? Has the curia now turned into cafeteria catholics or could one say heretics? I wonder how God Almighty Himself feels about this? The definition of sin is offending God is it not? Has God suddenly changed His mind? Why would He change His mind about what offends Him as He is the Alpha and the Omega? Are there some out there in protestant-land who believe that God isn’t stable? I wonder how God feels about the South African Episcopalian prince who spoke hours before Francis I ‘cannot judge a homosexual priest’ comment, yes Desmund Tutu said if God is homophobic, that he, Desmund Tutu, would rather spend eternity in hell! Wow the devil’s power is terrible, and Desmund Tutu just may get his wish for eternity! Since this subject is a matter of faith and morals, and a pope cannot err publicly about faith and morals, where does that leave us?
Do not let anyone lead you or your loved ones astray.
For ACCURACY – When in doubt about any teaching of the Church always check the “CATECHISM of the CATHOLIC CHURCH, Second Edition”.
Regarding homosexual acts – CCC # 2357, 2358, 2359 & 2396;
BIBLE: Gen 19:1-29; Rom 1:24-27; 1 Cor 6:10; 1 Tim 1:10.
We must NEVER tolerate Sin.
“Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.” – JESUS
QUOTE: ” These, then, are the four elements which comprise the storehouse of memory which the Church hands down: the profession of faith, the celebration of the sacraments, the path of the ten commandments, and prayer.
The Church’s catechesis has traditionally been structured around these four elements;
this includes the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which is a fundamental aid for that unitary act with which the Church communicates the entire content of her faith: “all that she herself is, and all that she believes”. “ UNQUOTE – Pope Francis (Encyclical Letter LUMEN FIDEI, 2013)
I hope that Pope Francis will clarify his statement, “Who am I to judge,” so that the sexually active LGBT crowd will not assume that Catholic doctrine has changed and condones their lifestyles. Being a heterosexual or a homosexual is not a sin. Catholic doctrine states clearly that ANY sexual activity outside of a lawful marriage is a mortal sin. Therefore, the choice is clear: lead a chaste life in accordance with one’s state in life. No one ever died from lack of sex. A chaste life can be a happy life and it is beautiful in the sight of God.
The Pope said nothing wrong. No matter what he says about anything, there will always be someone to take it and run with their own agenda.
Dave N., all Bishops, Priests, Nuns and Laity, who are NOT heretics and or schismatics would say that – – – ANYONE in the STATE of MORTAL SIN – may NOT RECEIVE HOLY COMMUNION.
Have you not read the “CATECHISM of the CATHOLIC CHURCH, Second Edition”?
When is the last time these sodomites went to confession? And did they confess their sodomy?
This article very much misrepresents the videos and the people in them.
These are dark and sinister times we live in…think of the purity and humility of the Madonna…and than go out and peddle this filth, your conscience (if you have one), will compel you to beg God for forgiveness, and you should RUN to the confessional!…even impure thoughts that one fertilizes are gravely sinful and necessitate a trip to the confessional…living a “gay” life and promoting the notion that “buggery” is o.k., is sacrilegious and even heretical!… may God have mercy on these men’s souls…the priest’s who spread this spiritual pollution are heading for Hades, pure and simple…
The priest’s who advocate this demonic lifestyle are also “queer”…the bishop’s that endorse and approve of this filth are also “queer”…where are Archbishop Cordileone and Gomez at?…they should be reading the “riot act” to these wayward clerics, and they should be on the phone to Rome, speaking with the Superior General and telling him to “clean up his act” NOW, upon pain of excommunication!…these men should be facing ipso facto excommunication for spreading heresy!…when the clergy embrace and endorse sodomy, they need to be laicized and excommunicated forthwith!…does the activity of these Jesuit’s seem pleasing to the Blessed Mother?…they should be pleading for mercy, after they have renounced their gravely sinful and abominable activity, and plead for forgiveness…may God have mercy on these men…words escape me
The videos do not advocate for or promote any lifestyle contrary to Catholicism. I think Pope Francis would approve these videos. There is no endorsement of any sin in these videos. Gay does not mean committing sodomy. Gay means recognizing that one has an attraction to one’s own gender. Rash judgment is a sin.
Mary Stachowicz & Matthew Shepard
I agree with some ‘Anonymously’ here, although not all – you probably know which you are, and if not – perhaps looking in the back of your collar might help – provided you filled out the name tag.
Anywayyyy… The Betrayal of the Church by Anti-Catholic Infiltrators, living the easy life off the Sunday Donations of the same Faithful they work so tirelessly to destroy the rest of the week, is the story of the post weimar amerikan ‘church’ (small ‘c’) these kkklowns have taken over.
In Remembering the Slain Faithful Catholic Woman who tried to reach out and help such Misandrists (those hateful to Men & Boys, Masculinity and Normal Heterosexuality) as these mau mau artistes at loyola and kindred indoctrination camps…
Father Paprocki has provided guidance for us all – particularly in the nature of this Evil, and what Further Evil it is capable of in service of its SSAD Agenda:
MARRIAGE, SAME-SEX RELATIONSHIPS AND THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
MOST REVEREND THOMAS JOHN PAPROCKI†
Jesuit Alumni in Arizona
Shadow Rock United Church of Christ Phoenix, Arizona
May 31, 2013
“…Mary Stachowicz was also brutally murdered, but the circumstances were quite different.
Mary, the gentle, devout 51-year-old Catholic mother of four urged her co-worker, Nicholas Gutierrez, 19, to change his gay lifestyle.
Infuriated by this, as he later told police, he allegedly beat, stabbed and strangled her to death and then stuffed her mangled body in a crawl space in his apartment…
What about a Jesuit chapel where an employee of the church (musician) is gay-married and has adopted children? Would Fr. Martin, S.J. say this practice is in accordance with or against Church teaching? What would the Pope say?
Why would Father Martin even be asked such a question? Is Father Martin the pastor of the Church, or some random Catholic passerby? Is this some Church Trial at which the musician is up for excommunication?
I would honestly like to know what Fr. Martin would say about this case. Is it acceptable to be gay-married, work for the Church and receive communion? One bishop in Rhode Island has said no. What would Fr. Martin say? Moreover, what would the Pope say?
California Legislature can repeal a referendum
An AB 1266 referendum is not the answer; exiting government schools is
Did you know that if the California Legislature passes a bad bill, and the Governor signs it…
…and then the People mount a referendum campaign and then vote down the bad bill on the ballot….
…that the California Legislature can repeal the People’s referendum after it passes?
California Constitution, Article II, Section 10:
if AB 1266 (transsexual school bathrooms) were repealed by the People via a ballot referendum, would the California Legislature, which has a supermajority of Democrats in both houses, repeal the repeal?
Given the record and heightened immoral agenda of Democrat state legislators, it’s very likely. Pushing cross-dressing and “sex changes” upon children is very important to homosexual-bisexual-transsexual activists.
– quite reasonable to expect that these perverse activists will make “their” Democrat elected legislators strike down the People’s vote against the transsexual school agenda, just like “LGBT” activists relentlessly worked to make “their” federal judges strike down Prop. 8 on marriage. You can at least count on them to try.
AB 1266 is only 1 of 10 sexual indoctrination laws mandated upon every child in California government schools, the only way to protect your child from the unnatural, unhealthy homosexual-bisexual-transsexual agenda is to
permanently remove your boys and girls from the immoral government schools and enter the safe havens of homeschooling and solid church schools
Besides, California ranks number 50th in all 50 states (that is dead beat last) in the quality education (reading, writing, and arithmetic) of its public school system. The demons are in control of our state’s public school system from the very top down to the very bottom. I homeschooled my children, and it made a difference in protecting their innocence and raising them as respectful, respectable, and intelligent Roman Catholic adolescents. Three of four graduated from out of state Roman Catholic schools, and they are all better for it. My last is attending the same parochial school now.
And when I was going to public school in California, Californian schools were at the top of the nation. “Oh, how they have fallen in more ways than one.
ANNE T. From best to worst in two generations. What has changed? Anyone with an ounce of memory knows: Open borders and the democrat party. Both aided and abetted by our episcopacy. Viva la Raza!
People whose hearts have become so hardened by their sins that they identify themselves with that sin have become that sin. They’re no longer just sinners but have chosen to shut themselves off from salvation. It’s a two way street…we have to be open to forgiveness in order to repent. I’m beginning to see that trying to reason with anyone so entrenched in evil that they’re partners w/satan simply cannot hear the good news. Whether it be abortion, homosexuality or atheism, (which breaks the first commandment and is much more serious than most understand) it’s like getting on a ship to hell and shutting down all communications that would help find your way back to safe harbor. This ship of fools enshrouded in dark mists and silence should strike terror in all our hearts. But for God go I. People like Francesca have tied their little life rafts to that dying ship and if they do not break free will go down with it in its wake. brrrr.
Dana, you have totally missed the point. The people who are identifying gay people with their sins are the bigots that are driving the gay people away from the Church. They have been driven away from the source of salvation. Calling them partners with Satan? That is so offensive and really it is overly simplistic. And it is a sin against faith, hope and charity. Francesca has “tied her raft” to the barque of Peter by believing in the life-giving message of Jesus Christ. It is you who are offending him, not she. Get on board. Worry about your own lack of understanding. This is not about whether sex acts are sinful (of course they are.) This is about how people who believe in Jesus Christ and the One Whom He Sent have to deal with hatred and fear and intolerance in the place where they should find love and other people who believe enough in God and the Catholic Faith to accept them as His Children. Their sins are not worse than yours. This is what God tries to tell us in His Scripture.
Anonymous IR-Revelations Revealed
Dana – Your insights are a beacon amidst the smoke and mirrors of the Gaystapo ms.information pogrom. I know that it is no fun to deal with the constant scolding by Anonymous Harpy Trolls , which is made all the more offensive when the cloak their (excrement deleted) in ‘churchy type talk’…
Particularly with the type of ‘Alinskite Jams’ as are regularly Anonymously deposited here – pushing the moral relativism creed of ‘We are All Sinners’ / All ‘sex zcts’ are Sinful – So why not promote our Perversions too – up the public wazoo.
So lets ‘Celebrate’ Intrinsically Disordered ‘orientations’ as being Just Fine – without any Icky Mention that the celebratory cake they have Ordered from the baker is frosted with Dan ‘The Savage Liskspittle” Savages favorite symbol of Happy Tolerance – A “Frothy Mix of Feces & Lube”.
And we are now all expected to Enjoy a nice big slice of such a Just Desert for the In-Tolerant…
– And Gaily Smile as we too join the ‘Cannibals Soup 4 Lunch Bunch’ – where under the Pander or Perish rules of the Gaystapo – you are welcome as either a Diner, or Dinner
Either Way – The Alinsklyite Trolls get a feast fit for a dirty birdie harpy, kinda like the outhouse blowflies their Behaviors so gaily emulate, only ‘churchier’.
Thank you Michael and I can imagine you’ve ‘seen it all’ in your years of dealing with this issue. I was only referring to people actively involved in homosexual activities and wasn’t even thinking of those of ss attraction living a celibate life. How can a person become the sin if he or she is not actively involved in it? Read how these lying frauds tried to make Cd Dolan look unloving (oh, that’s right, the in word is ‘uncharitable’) and judgmental from keeping out the homosexual mafia from entering with deliberate intent to take communion and disrupt the service with their staged ‘dirty hands’ to make the world see them as persecuted martyrs. Such liars! They are opening active homosexualists trying to force the Church to accept their disgusting and heretical practices. Go ahead and tell me that I’m not obeying scripture. What you ‘feel’ matters one whit to me. I know the truth and recognize my Master’s voice, thank God!
I meant to say they are ‘openly’ active homosexualists. And anonymous, none of us, not one, is anonymous to God. And the event I was referring to with Cd.Dolan was last Easter at St. Patrick’s Cathedral.
Dana, I know a pro-choice, pro gay marriage catholic who says the same thing that you said about their Master’s voice-so be careful with that one. Your bringing up the dirty hands event, which was a reaction to Cardinal Dolan’s “All are Welcome” blog is a great example of how something that seems benign to us is very offensive to gay persons. They were not trying to force the Church to “accept their disgusting and heretical practices.” I don’t know what they were trying to do, except to say that they were hurt by his remarks. Gay Catholics struggle with issues that you and I don’t have and we need to listen. I know a convert who bristles at a lot of things that are said by Catholics about Bible Christians. I know people who sat through RCIA instructions where offensive things were said about their former churches. Nobody is trying to be offensive. It is ignorance. If you won’t listen when someone says something is offensive, how will you learn? It is always important to stand up for Church teaching, but it is not appropriate to assume that someone else does not know or accept it.
Exceptionally well said Anonymous.
Wrong again YFC
Anyone who is pro-abortion or pro homosexual acts – is not a good Catholic. They are heretics and schismatics as defined in the CCC.
This can be proven by reading the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition”.
Always challenge anyone who says they are “Catholic” if they approve of any mortal sin. You can ask them one question:
1. Where can I find that in the CCC? (which paragraph number)
For example, YFC is not Catholic or is a heretic and/or schismatic – often supporting sodomy in his writings. Homosexual Acts (as well as abortion) are all clearly covered in the CCC in 4 numbered paragraphs.
shocking, positively shocking
Oh, give it a rest. You’ve pretty much worn out that cliche’ no matter what name you’re posing under. You sound like an employee for Pacific Electric Co.
For accurate teachings of the Catholic Church regarding homosexual ACTS,
please see the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition”.
CCC: #2357, 2358, 2359, & 2396.
Bible: Gen 19:1-29; Rom 1:24-27; 1 Cor 6:10; 1 Tim 1:10.
Those who wish to be Catholic and receive the Sacraments must adhere to Church teaching.
Catholics who do not are heretics and/or schismatics.
In addition on the Vatican web site see: ” LETTER TO THE BISHOPS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH ON THE PASTORAL CARE OF HOMOSEXUAL PERSONS ” which includes:
” 15. We encourage the Bishops, then, to provide pastoral care in full accord with the teaching of the Church for homosexual persons of their dioceses.
No authentic pastoral programme will include organizations in which homosexual persons associate with each other without clearly stating that homosexual activity is immoral.
A truly pastoral approach will appreciate the need for homosexual persons to avoid the near occasions of sin. ”
Thank you ANNE for providing facts (rather than the lies posted by a few) in your post of Sept 15; 5:15am.
I wish more posters would PROVE their statements via official Church documentation, rather than personal opinions that are false.
Let’s all start asking for OFFICIAL Church DOCUMENTATION of posters who clearly are doing the devils work.
I have to agree with you David…and I regret popping off with arguments based on ‘feelings’ etc. Bad idea…bad habit. The Church provides such beautiful examples and so well expressed and full of real truth based on 2000 yrs. of tradition and Biblical studies, prayers, and Papal encyclicals, etc. What alot of hooey to use one’s limited understanding to make an argument.
Well Cited Anne!
Given the ease with which anyone can access the Vatical Website http://www.vaticn.va and Review the Official Church Teachings and Detailed Explanations on these type topics…
It is obvious that this whole pogrom of Anonymous Trolls posting Ms.Information here is more along the lines of ‘Jamming’ by worshipers of Saul Alinsky / Larry Brinkin / Allen Ginsberg and the like – Than Anything more to do with the Catholic Church, save abuse of the Sunday Collection so as to Harm the Faithful who donated it.
“…All support should be withdrawn from any organizations which seek to undermine the teaching of the Church, which are ambiguous about it, or which neglect it entirely.
Such support, or even the semblance of such support, can be gravely misinterpreted. Special attention should be given to the practice of scheduling religious services and to the use of Church buildings by these groups, including the facilities of Catholic schools and colleges.
To some, such permission to use Church property may seem only just and charitable; but in reality it is contradictory to the purpose for which these institutions were founded, it is misleading and often scandalous.
In assessing proposed legislation, the Bishops should keep as their uppermost concern the responsibility to defend and promote family life.