The following April 7 John Allen story in the National Catholic Reporter was emailed to Cal Catholic by Dan Zeidler, untiring defender of the unborn in Latin America.
In Argentina, they say that if you want to understand the priestly soul of Jorge Mario Bergoglio, then you have to know the villas miserias, literally “villas of misery,” meaning the slums in Buenos Aires where the poorest of the poor are found.
According to Fr. Juan Isasmendi, who lives and works in one of the villas, this is where the future Pope Francis filled his lungs with the “oxygen” he needed to think about what the church ought to be.
There are roughly 20 of these slums in Buenos Aires, often just a block or so away from gleaming high-rise office towers and luxury apartment buildings. Bergoglio’s pastoral revolution was to hand-pick a cadre of especially strong, dedicated priests not just to visit the villas but to live and work here, sharing the lives of the people down to the last detail.
The aim was to make the faith come alive, preaching and celebrating the sacraments while also turning the parish into a comprehensive social service center — fighting drugs and violence, educating the young and taking care of the old, providing job training and even community radio to give the people a voice.
Those who know his mind best say Bergoglio wanted to send a message to the villas: Even if politics and the economy have forgotten about you, the church hasn’t.
If that sounds abstract, here’s a piece of what it means in practice.
Argentina is currently being ravaged by a wave of addiction to what’s known as paco, a cheap drug made from the residue left behind after cocaine has been processed for sale in the United States and Europe. Paco is low-grade, toxic, and often mixed with junk such as sulfuric acid, kerosene, rat poison, even crushed glass. It’s incredibly addictive and destructive of the user’s personality; one doctor here says it turns people into “Neanderthals”; another, the “living dead.”
Because it’s cheap and readily available, poor youth with no job and no future are easily tempted. In general, parishes are the only places where a real alternative seems to be on offer.
Melchora Lescano, a mother and grandmother who lives in the villas, put it this way: “For our kids, it’s either the parish or it’s paco … that’s it.”
On Saturday, I spent the morning in what’s called “Villa 21,” the largest slum in Buenos Aires with a population of almost 50,000 people. (It’s perhaps appropriate, given how anonymous the people who live here can sometimes seem, that most of the villas have numbers rather than real names.)
The beating heart of Villa 21 is the parish of the Virgin of Caacupé, named for Mary as the patroness of Paraguay, because most of the people living here are poor immigrants from that country.
Bergoglio’s option for places such as this wasn’t notional, a matter of a few lines in a pastoral plan. It took flesh and blood in his penchant for walking the streets, talking to the people, leading them in worship and standing with them when times were tough.
On a dare from a friend, I stopped a woman at random and asked if she had met Bergoglio. She scuttled into her tiny shack made of tin and wood, emerging with two prized photos. One showed him as a young auxiliary bishop with her family in the early 1990s and another showed him as cardinal confirming two of her cousins.
Bergoglio’s former spokesperson in Buenos Aires, Federico Wals, told me a few days ago that the future pope dreamed of a missionary church, concerned above all with people who seem to have been tossed on an “existential garbage pile.” Famously, the new pope also said shortly after his election that he dreams of a “poor church for the poor.”
Yet at Caacupé, at least for one Saturday morning in early April, those didn’t seem like dreams at all. They seemed instead the concrete reality of how a church shaped by the vision of Pope Francis looks, smells and tastes.
* * *
I was accompanied to the villa by María José Müller, a dynamic recent Ph.D. in communications who volunteers at the parish’s community radio, and by my assistant for the week, Ines San Martin, who I’m completely convinced will one day be the dean of religious journalists in her country.
When we arrived, we bumped into a volunteer catechist named Miguel who also helps run a boys’ baseball team. He was bringing the kids into the chapel before practice and was kind enough to help me chat with them for a few minutes.
When I asked if they were happy to have a pope from Argentina, the immediate answer was yes — the only ambivalence seemed to come from a couple of kids who noted that Francis is a fan of the San Lorenzo soccer team while they cheer for a rival club.
A 10-year-old named Esteban seemed to speak for the group when he said, “He’s not just an Argentinian, he’s from here!” He told me he had met Bergoglio and wanted to know if he should go home to get his picture with the cardinal. I suggested he probably shouldn’t miss practice.
“It’s like Jesus in the Gospels where he says, ‘Rejoice, because your names are written in Heaven,’ ” Isasmendi told me. “The people from the villas know Bergoglio, and when we had Mass to celebrate his election, they all brought their pictures with him.”
Müller ticked off a staggering set of ministries run out of the Virgin of Caacupé parish:
A recovery center for drug addicts, called the Lugar de Cristo;
Two farms where recovering addicts work and live;
Fifteen or 16 chapels around the neighborhood where priests visit for Masses and confession;
A high school;
A trade school, offering courses in auto repair, electronics, laundry services, computers and other practical job skills;
A home for the elderly;
A soup kitchen (which is in addition, she said, to the fact that everybody knows that if you’re hanging around the parish at lunch time, you’ll probably be invited in to eat with the priests);
A community radio station, which broadcasts 24/7 and which teaches young people the media business;
A community newspaper called The Catholic;
Drug prevention programs, some targeted at paco;
A daily center for kids living in the streets where they can get cleaned up and get a hot meal and help straightening their lives out if they want it.
Müller said she’s been a practicing Catholic all her life but has never felt the passion for the faith she’s discovered since getting involved in the villa.
“They told me that once you enter Caacupé, you’ll never really leave,” she said, “and it’s completely true.”
To be clear, the work here may be rewarding, but it’s no pleasure cruise. The former pastor of the parish, a charismatic priest named Fr. Jose “Pepe” di Paola, had to be transferred out by Bergoglio because of persistent death threats related to his efforts to break the grip of the drug gangs that often represent the church’s main rival in these neighborhoods.
* * *
Isasmendi told me Bergoglio didn’t just “approve” this activity or support it. He said the future pope was intimately involved at the level of detail, including decisions about which priests were picked for the role that Isasmendi laughingly described as forming Bergoglio’s “infantry” in the villas.
“When Bergoglio called me to send me to this parish, I told him about my life, my family, what I’m good at, and so on,” Isasmendi said. “He told me he wanted to send me to the Virgin of Caacupé to work with Fr. Pepe. I started talking about something different, just to buy myself some time to think. Bergoglio answered my questions, but he kept coming back to, ‘OK, yeah, but are you going to Caacupé?’ He did that three times in about 20 minutes, always saying that I need you there.
“At the end, I said, ‘Let’s just pretend I have 20 days to think about it, and then I’ll come back and tell you yes because it’s obvious I can’t say no.’ He laughed, and that’s how it happened.”
Isasmendi said Bergoglio was the same way with all his priests.
“I had a priest friend who was working at a parish, and Bergoglio wanted to send him to another one. My friend tried to argue, saying, ‘I want to stay here, my work is here.’ Bergoglio told him no, I’m still going to send you because you’re thinking about next year and I’m thinking about your next 40 years as a priest. He sometimes asked you to do things that at the beginning you didn’t like, but then you learned to love them because he wasn’t authoritarian or demagogic about it. He was like a father, trying to guide us in a good way.”
I asked if the story also illustrates another point, that when Bergoglio makes up his mind, he won’t be talked out of it.
“Oh God, yes,” Isasmendi laughed. “He can be incredibly bull-headed … this is a very important point.”
In truth, Isasmendi said, Bergoglio not only made a wise choice sending him to the villas, but a politically astute one, too. Otherwise, he said, he probably would have gravitated to the foreign missions. This way, Bergoglio got to keep him in the archdiocese.
In fact, Isasmendi said, Bergoglio was so well informed about the lives of his priests that it sometimes made him hard to deal with.
“You couldn’t just feed him a line of crap because he’d see right through it,” he said. “You couldn’t just say, ‘Everything’s fine, the parish is going great,’ because before long he’d ask a pointed question that made it crystal clear he know perfectly well what was going on. You couldn’t get anything past him, and if you tried, he didn’t buy it.”
At the same time, he said, Bergoglio “was very good with his priests, very merciful.”
“He was never rigid about the small and stupid stuff,” Isasmendi said, “because he was interested in something deeper.”
Isasmendi is now 32, having served at the parish of the Virgin of Caacupé since his ordination in 2008. He told me Bergoglio “risked a lot” to change the nature of priestly formation in Buenos Aires.
“He was always concerned that future priests stay close to the lives of real people, not so much that they be concerned about the church as a structure,” he said. “It wasn’t easy, because many times formation programs encourage priests to separate themselves from other people, but that’s not the kind of priest Bergoglio wanted.”
What was his reaction to his cardinal being made pope?
“When Bergoglio was elected and took the name Francis,” Isasmendi said, “my first thought was that God is giving his blessing to what we’re doing in Buenos Aires!”
* * *
Bishop Jorge Eduardo Lozano of Gualeguaychú, a close friend of Bergoglio who worked under him as an auxiliary in Buenos Aires for six years, says that the cornerstone of the new pope’s vision is his desire for a “missionary church, one that moves out of the sacristy and into the streets.”
According to Isasmendi, that wasn’t just talk. It was the lived experience of how Bergoglio related to the villas.
“I’d say that over the 15 years he’s been walking down the streets here, at least half of the people have met him at some time and have a picture with him, meaning at least 25,000 people in this villa alone,” he said.
“He came for all the big festivals and he did all the confirmations,” he said. “One time, we had almost 400 people to be confirmed, and he did them all personally on one day. It took three and a half hours, maybe four, and he did it all.”
“When he would visit here, he’d take the bus and then he’d just come walking around the corner like a normal guy,” Isasmendi said.
“For us, it was the most natural thing in the world. He’d sit around and drink mate (an Argentinian tea), talking with people about whatever was going on. He’d start talking to the doorman or somebody about a book he was reading, and I could leave him there and go do something else, because Bergoglio was totally comfortable.”
I asked if Bergoglio had been so concerned with the slums because of the drugs, the gangs, or some other specific problem.
“The biggest problem we face is marginalization of the people,” he said. “Drugs are a symptom, violence is a symptom, but marginalization is the disease. Our people feel marginalized by a social system that’s forgotten about them and isn’t interested in them.”
“Marginalization is the mother of our problems, and unfortunately she has many children,” he said.
“Basically, what society is telling these people is, ‘We don’t want you to exist.’ The work we’re doing here is to try to tell them instead, ‘It’s good that you exist.’ ”
That, he said, was the vision Jorge Mario Bergoglio had for the church in Buenos Aires, and it takes on flesh in places such as the Virgin of Caacupé parish. Now that he’s Francis, perhaps this “Pope of the Villa” can spread that vision well beyond the borders of Buenos Aires, helping it take flesh all over the world.
(Follow John Allen on Twitter: @JohnLAllenJr)
I would rather have a pope with this type of gospel experience rather than one who is still trying to relive the the papal experience of the Holy Roman Empire. I predict that if he lasts ten years he will be as loved by the people of the world as Bl. John Paul II. The quality of popes of the last two centuries assures us that Christ is with us.
Simon now come on….your comments are not fair at all and I feel that they disregard the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Forget what man wants, but choose what Christ wants….we have the poor yes but we have many poor of spirit in the USA.
Abeca, it deeply concerns me how many seem to think they must denigrate our beloved Pope Emeritus to compliment our new pope. It isn’t fair t0 either man nor is it Catholic charity. I pray for Pope Francis and I still pray for dear Benedict XVI Emeritus. How blessed we are to have a loving, caring ‘papa’ that we love in return, no? Let’s count our blessings and enough of the carping, already!
Yes Dana I agree….we have a new Pope and we haven’t had enough time with him to see his work and already people comparing him to Pope Emeritus…..I don’t like injustice so I feel like I have to combat that one just to even it out…aye carumba lol
Really?” The Holy Roman Empire” and just what was wrong with The Holy Roman Empire?????? Oh I get, stunning vestments and a more stunning Traditional Latin Mass, packed churches, true devotion, priests and nuns everywhere, what was wrong with that???
“What was wrong with that?”: No ipods, no internet, no men on the moon, no Hollywood … should I go on?
Thanks Janet….some of these folks just make ignorant comments….it tells a lot about them.
The quality of popes does not insure that Christ is with us. That is the Holy Spirit, regardless of the popes. Besides, the logic of your comment implies that a bad pope cuts the connection between the Church and Christ. This is protestant thinking and denies the Sacraments.
USA doesn’t know what poverty is….this is what real poverty is, these are the poor not the system sucking lazy people in the USA….we do have the poor too but it’s true that most that are not poor, they know how to use our welfare system to their advantage, they live in homes, drive decent cars, have cell phones, drink their daily star bucks, qualify for many programs while the rest of us have to work hard and are the true struggling middle class.
Abeca, let’s keep in mind that the”system sucking lazy people” that you mention are a small minority of what constitutes poverty in the U.S. Our poor are lucky to have a support system, much of it by the Catholic Church, to help them in a time of need. One of the ironies among those who work with the poor is that the middle class people who have decended into poverty as a result of the economic policies of the last ten or twelve years don’t know how to work the system. They never thought they would need it, but here they are. Were talking about people who had good jobs, owned a home, raised their kids properly and then it all fell apart. They lost their job 26 months ago and can’t find a new one. They are untrained for the new jobs that do exist, which is why we are recruiting in India and China for engineers. Our economic system has let them down, our education system has let them down, and it goes on and on. In the meantime Catholic Charities and Loaves and Fishes is feeding hundreds of thousands every day across the country. We only have shelters for a small fraction of our citizens who have no home. Just think of where you would be if you had been abandoned by the system. Remembrer, there are not jobs for the untrained because the trained people are taking them away. Farmers can’t find people to work the fields which puts our food supply in harms way. Visit a food bank a few times and you will change your attitude about the poor. We don’t even have priests who are trained to deal with the poverty in their parishes.
Utter nonsense from Bob One, we have created generational dependency and yes Bob One the system is being sucked dry by the so called poor. I have been in places in this world where REAL POVERTY exists, no running water, no floors, cardboard shacks, children picking food from piles of garbage and drinking dirty water. The so called poor in this country can get government housing and food all brought to them by people like me. We have 46MM people on food stamps while this criminal administration raises the income level in order to quality ie you can make $40k a year and still get food stamps. In the upside down world of likes of Bob One, if you don’t collect a government check or don’t work for the government you are the enemy and evil
And we should be proud that we don’t require/force our poor to live like those we have both seen all over the world. We are one of the richest nations in the world. We should not have homeless and poverty or hungry prople. I thank God every day that we as a nation are commited to maintaining a safety net for our people. Now, if the companies would just start hiring again. They have the money.
Bob One, it’s not money that facilitates the hiring but demand. The demand is vastly greater in other parts of the world than in the USA. Govt can make money out of thin air, which is how it does it. The problem is demand. People on fifty cents a day need to buy stuff, and they cannot buy anything made in America with labor rates at fifty cents per minute. You golden calf people need to learn how the economy works … instead of constantly harping false ideas about how money is needed to make everything work well again. Well, for vast emerging populations it is working well now, because they can now afford to buy goods on their fifty cents daily wages.
Bob One spoken like a true boleshevik and I quote ” Now, if the companies would just start hiring again. They have the money.” Do you honestly believe that companies are in the business to hire people, you know as much about capitalism as you do about Church teachings….
Rip apart the safety net and tell the poor to get off their lazy hides and do something instead of collecting a government check…SMASH THE WELFARE STATE
Bob one…I know not of what you are talking about…I live in California and I don’t really see poverty(well except for the homeless) but I mostly see system sucking people…I see how many of them drive BMW’s, SUV’s etc….how come they qualify for section 8? I don’t get it….wish I knew what you were talking about. Even the had working humble Hispanics aren’t even using the system, they are actually working…..a few years ago, they paid cash when they were buying a used van from my cousin.
When we met up with them at their house, they had about 10 people living in a 3 bedroom house……they work hard and are not seeking any government help…I know because we actually talked about those things.
Bob one I use to volunteer in homeless shelters, helped them in other ways too….they are the real poor, they don’t have any government assistance or an address to get support, a veteran we met for some reason wasn’t getting section 8, he was homeless and on a wheelchair but how come a young family man, who is strong and healthy is on section 8 and is not motivated to find a good full time job or even better himself through education? HMM could it be because he doesn’t have too, he gets a lot of stuff for free, why work for it right? ….You keep missing the point and for you to suggest for me to visit the poor, I have but I don’t feel like it’;s something I go and show off about, it’s between God and I….not for me to prove to you otherwise…..you have some nerve to insult my intelligence….I know what i am talking about, I am not making it up. I don’t discount the fact that we do have the real poor with us, the homeless, single mum’s and yes families who lost everything but I also know how too real this welfare system has failed our people…..we have so much lazy people who feel entitled to things, they are bought by the government. They think it’s free…maybe so because the rest of us pay higher taxes to pay for that….so guess what? It’s not free after all, WOULD SOMEONE LET THOSE PEOPLE KNOW? Instead of (the city) paying someone to pick up trash or remove graffiti why not have some of those who get help, volunteer to to make our cities cleaner?
Bob one Growing up we were the middle class who struggled and when my dad lost his job, we were almost homeless, so my mum decided to babysit to help support us until my papa could find a job, so we won’t lose our house…we could of qualified for welfare but they wanted us to be dirt poor, to not owning a home, they wanted us to depend on a system that would not allow us to progress that was back then….so my parents lead by example and never applied for any assistance, we toughed it out….I admire my parents for being those good witnesses. I have no issue with helping the poor but if it enables them to not work hard …then how is this system helping. I have cousins who live on government help, they pay their rent, they pay for their schooling but they can not get a job because these are her exact words “no I can’t show income because I’ll lose my benefits and most of my section 8”. Wow I was astonished….why not help them get back on their feet without having to train them to think “why even bother, I make more money through government assistance than if I worked outside”…..truly an injustice and truly a system that makes people dependent on it to most of the time to no end. While the rest of us have to pay for everything including watching our kids pay for their college education and be in debt….while I don’t get how others get it all free….I have children, my husband is hard working and always pays his taxes and does good charity work…..I wish we could afford to help pay for their education…what breaks my heart is the big dept of $50,000 or more that they may have after they graduate just because we want them in a private good hopefully Catholic school…..even if they are are average in grades but work hard….it’s hard to find scholarships to help ease some of the debt….well anyhoo don’t get me started on this Bob One.
“system sucking lazy people”: Perfect description of the federal govt and the Church bureaucracies.
Bob one I don’t know if they are a minority but you are right that at least we are blessed to have help for those who do need it. : )
abeca, really! There are poor people in our country who have never taken a dime from the government. There are poor people in our country who have no money, but live on the charity of others. There are people in our country who are incomeless, totally. They don’t have anything except what they can carry in a bag and sometimes the governments shut down the tunnels or parking lots where they sleep and throw the bags away. Many of the poor are single mother families but almost an equal number are married couple families. Coveting your neighbors goods-Starbucks, cell phones, cars- is a sin. It breaks the 10th commandment.
Anonymous quite baffling on and coming off so irrational….I never discounted those facts…I am talking about the ones who abuse the system….stop jumping the boat before you attack..you are very insulting….
I know very much about those good and honest poor….and that is between the good Lord and I….that is whom the system should be helping and supporting not the ones who suck the system….I would gladly continue giving our hard earned taxes to bless those struggling even more than we are, gladly and like many of us, we privately share what we have….if we have two bags of rice, you better believe it, i don’t need a government to tell me or force me to share my bag of rice, I gladly would give them half of what i have….you are committing the sin here…your assumptions are revolting to me….you sound like a liberal who uses the faith to intimate to promote their agenda’s… I know them to well…you need not use the faith to prove your point but in fact you are sinning.
anon I believe in my heart that you are a person of bad will…telling from how you use the faith to shut off facts that many Americans are concerned about and the very fact that you only assume ill of your neighbor already tells all especially since you twist what I am trying to convey….I will keep you in my prayers but for now, your words don’t mean a thing to me…I only see you as a dissenter, one hiding behind the name anonymous….why don’t you say those insulting words to the ones who are advocating gay rights, if you are the same Anon as from other threads, I only see you fighting off the faithful who defend the faith but the dissenters you are silent… a deadly and deceitful silence…one not to trust. You are Anonymous…..so it’s not personal I don’t know who you are, I only judge from how strong you come on here for some of the liberal ideologies. I wonder where you stand on gay rights… So it’s not personal, I just don’t trust your integrity from the comments here.
I at least give credit to Bob one…He made his point and didn’t offend my faith…he may have assumed that i am ignorant about the poor by asking me to visit a food bank…..I have even volunteered and it was part of my youth group…I do recall the same people that came….non really seemed poor to me, I think they just loved getting free food….but that does not mean that there were also many who did need it…I can only recall from what I have seen myself. Except for recently the church that gave food to the homeless, they really needed it. We saw how important it was to donate travel size shampoo’s, deodorants, feminine pads etc etc….many people neglect that those are important too….also when we donated blankets in the winter…people forget that many of them freeze at night and blankets are gift, backpacks too.
Also on Christmas morning we know of a family who prepares bags and filled them with food…my kids youth group helped fill them out…yes those are the real poor,,,those I want to help….some are eager to find jobs and many are suffering with some mental healthy issue, those we need to help find medical help and shelter but because of their mental health issues, they run away often and it’s hard to rehabilitate them…the system fails to do that….
What is your point here, Abeca? Accusing others of bad will because they state the obvious hardly illuminates your intent.
Is it really your belief that poverty doesn’t exist in the United States? If that is so, then surely the welfare programs from FDR forward must have been a great success and merit our enthisiastic support.
abeca, you wrote the post denying poverty in the US and begrudging people their belongings. Baltimore Catechism Q1321 By the tenth commandment we are commanded to be content with what we have and to rejoice in our neighbor’s welfare. (Now that does not mean the government’s version of welfare.) Your post was very negative. Now that you’ve been admonished on it, you attack and falsely accuse the person who admonished you and spend your time in trying to upgrade your image. It is betweeen you and God. I know now that your pride is too great to accept a Christian rebuke and I will not admonish you again.
Abeca Christian, do you ever read some of what you write? You wrote, “Why don’t you say those insulting words to the ones who are advocating gay rights?” Would that really make you feel better? You seem to have some kind of a fixation and an ax to grind here. If someone insults a group of people that you dislike do you really see this as a good thing? What kind of Christian charity is that? What did Christ say about loving one’s neighbor? That includes poor people and gays.
I’m quite puzzled here, Abeca. Anon raises legitimate issues, and we can all discuss whether Anon is right or wrong. But you attack him/her for ill will in you post. Dost thou protest too much?
Anonymous, you have obviously never run into actual poor people. I’ve lived in the USA all my many decades of life, and have visited the highways and byways, the migrant workers and walked through project housing. An old missionary priest (backwaters of southeast Asia) told me I had no idea of what poverty is like. Yes, in the usa you can find burned out druggies, wasting away sodomites, street people and tunnel people who refuse to stay in homeless shelters … but these are voluntary “poor” people. Go to fourth world countries such as the perpetually starving Ethiopians or Somalians, of the poorest of the poor in Calcutta. There is nothing such as these in the USA. Here we have the wealthiest oppulant of the poor. These poor in the usa are typically deranged psychotics, but in many actually poor regions of the world, the poor are normal but without material goods, marginalized peoples … like animals who had a bumper crop and expanded their numbers so that many of them wandered beyond the areas where they can provide for themselves … and they run into abject nothingness and are then herded and annihilated by flesh farmers, rulers high and low who use them as means to their own designs. Soldiers shoot them at random for “fun” in some areas, and they cannot defend themselves.
I like your use of the fourth world concept. It is possible to have a fourth world population in the US. It is probable that within most first world countries there are fourth world populations. They are not recognized as such. The “voluntary” poor people you speak of do not include the children, the rural poor, the physically ill, the injured, or the abandoned or exploited. I recently heard a story of a man who was surprised while eating at a outdoor cafe in a major European city that people would leave half their food on the table and not clean up after themselves. Soon, he noticed that a couple minutes after they left a street person would come a sit down at the table and finish the food. Urban gleaning.
Skai, you may, of course, create your own standard of poverty, but no one else is obligated to accept it.
Anonymous, be aware of what Jesus said about those who post such as your lukewarm, comfy, everything is ok posts: He will spit such out of His mouth, because He can work only with the hot and the cold, but not with the lukewarm. He tells us He did not come to save the righteous but the rest of us.
Exactly what post of mine did you feel was lukewarm?
“He sometimes asked you to do things that at the beginning you didn’t like, but then you learned to love them because he wasn’t authoritarian or demagogic about it. He was like a father, trying to guide us in a good way.”
Never have I heard a clearer expression of what it means to spread the Gospel as a genuine Christian leader.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion on how to spread the faith….Previous Pope Benedict was a beautiful example of that and also a good and holy man!
Amen, sister! He was so gentle and loving and a true example for men to follow…besides being incredibly brilliant.
Francis, “never have” you heard a clearer Gospel meaning because you do not bother to read the Gospel. Your entire schtueck is nothing more than the dumbed down version of Catholicism known as Cumbayahism. Grow up and find out what the Gospel fully is.
Good comments about Pope Francis. We must pray for him. I, too, am more comfortable with a holy worker with people than more Vatican bureaucrats and philosophers who can’t get down to level of ordinary people. He doesn’t have the “Mitt Romney problem”, thank God!
Again, please stop comparing and criticizing. Mitt Romney was a wonderful man…honest, sincere and capable. I think alot of this backbiting is just sour grapes.
Amen to that DANA! God bless you sister!
Dana I don’t know they this comment doubled itself, it was meant for the other one comment you made from April 10, 2013 at 2:56 pm.
haha. Well, it’s all good, Abeca, and I always welcome an Amen, Amen! It would seem that the common sense of GKChesterton, for example would not go amiss for many on this site, wouldn’t you say? I often feel we’re a microcosm of the problems that confront the Church, each of us representing the four food groups, or is it a pyramid now? or each coming from different segments of society or different organs of the body, notes of a tune, hair of the dog that bit you? haha Sorry, as you know, I oft go awry. You get my drift, anyway.
yes Dana I get you…you are awesome. LOL
Why do so many people see only in political terms … liberal, conservative, republican, democrat??? There is vastly more to reality than that tripe. Not that politics is unimportant, but so many posters reveal that it is the only thing they use to evaluate the informtion that comes their way.
A negative piece on Roger Mahony gets over 100 comments and this beautiful story gets 6. How horribly sad…
Then Rodda get to it….post some more…after all you do a good job on the others as well…
I would hand you a kerchief to weep in, Rodda, but alas, my arm isn’t that long.
;o)
May, Pope Francis, be given the many Graces needed to sheppard Christ’s “Holy Catholic Church”. May, Our Dear Lord and His Holy Mother, Mary, guide his every step. Great things can happen, for the Church and the whole World. All Catholics and men “of Good Will” need to step up their prayers NOW!!! God, has a peace plan for the World. May, Pope Francis, (by a VERY special Grace) be the pope who co-operates more fully and properly, in helping to bring about World Peace, of which man is completely incapable. May, he be the conduit, hand picked by Heaven, for this ALL important work. May, “Our Lady of Fatima” watch over him and guide him always.
God bless Pope Francis.
Good prayers Maureen I agree…God bless you I pray the same prayers for this Pope as I did the previous one too…..we should always pray for our church leadership.
They may have different styles but they are still both good holy men in Christ. Just because people report more on this new Pope on where he comes from…I bet that what we didn’t see from Previous Pope Benedict as well, God saw in secret and there are great seeds that were planted……many great seeds and for people to have a prejudges only shows how shallow and narrow minded they are about the wholeness of the faith.
Norwood, NJ … Is that near Mayberry?
Apparently Don Zeidler, does not know that the “National Catholic REPORTER” is a heretical and schismatic organization, and is not to be quoted by Faithful Catholics.
They have been and still are in violation of Code of Canon Law by calling themselves “Catholic”.
This has been the case since 1968 under Bishop Helmsing when it was actually condemned. This condemnation has never been lifted by any of the Diocese Bishops.
And it has been re-iterated by the current Bishop of St. Louis where the “Reporter” is located.
(An occasional decent article does not make up for all the heretical and schismatic articles it produces – which causes the mortal sin of SCANDAL and confusion.)
Pete thank you for pointing that out…I now I heard this before on other articles but for someone new this is helpful information.
Abeca, the verbatim 1986 condemnation of the “National Catholic REPORTER” by Bishop Helmsing can be found on the internet by searching: – – – – – “Greenspun.com Bishop Helmsing 1968 Text of Reporter Condemnation”.
It includes but is not limited to: ” In fairness to our Catholic people, I hereby issue an official condemnation of the National Catholic Reporter. Furthermore, I send this communication to my brother bishops, and make known to the priests, religious and laity of the nation my views on the poisonous character of this publication. ” – Bishop Helmsing.
For 2013 statement of Bishop Finn about the ‘REPORTER’ see: – – –
“Bishop’s Role in Fostering the Mission of the Catholic Media” in Catholic Key.
Abeca, for the exact wording on Official wording of the Condemnation of the “National Catholic REPORTER” on the internet search: – – -“GREENSPUN.com Bishop Helmsing 1968 TEXT Reporter”.
It includes but is not limited to: “In fairness to our Catholic people, I hereby issue an official condemnation of the National Catholic Reporter. Furthermore, I send this communication to my brother bishops, and make known to the priests, religious and laity of the nation my views on the poisonous character of this publication. :
The 2013 statement by Bishop Finn can be found under: ” Bishop’s Role in Fostering the Mission of the Catholic Media” by Catholic Key.
Kansas City.
Pete:
By your standard, nobody should ever quote anything from Cal Catholic Daily!
Francis you are being sneaky here….you can’t compare Cal Catholic daily to them…Cal Catholic is a true faithful Catholic website…..they are not dissenters…..the owner is very pro life and a good man. Also I knew some of the people who use to work for him too through fighting the good fight on pro-life issues…truly devout….
Abeca the owner is, apparently, obsessed with homosexuality. Unlike our Lord who never uttered a word about the issue.
“Abeca the owner is, apparently, obsessed with homosexuality. Unlike our Lord who never uttered a word about the issue.” = A false statement on both accounts.
Sin blinds and habitual sin hardens hearts. The owner of CCD is not and was not the poor captive individual who introduced himself on CCD as a Catholic man who was living with his boyfriend for the past 22 years. To write that God did not “utter” a single word on the matter of homosexuality is another deceptive falsehood.
First of all, God does not need to “utter.” God Pronounces and Proclaims His
Majestic Might. God certainly DID address the sins of Sodom and Gomorrah in Sacred Scripture and when hardened hearts refused to listen to God then He completely *annihilated* Sodom and Gomorrah for their disobedience. That action does not denote an “uttering” yet there will always be those whose hearts have been hardened to such a degree of blindness that they truly cannot see. These are the poorest of the poor and if we love one another as Jesus commanded us to love, then it is a right thing and a good that the owner of CCD still reaches out in love to all with the True Teachings of the Catholic Church.
As you can clearly see, the dictionary meaning of the word annihilate shows us that God did indeed address these sins by not only using words but also with the Divine and swift action of annihilation.
Dictionary meaning of the word annihilate:
a. To destroy completely
b. To reduce to nonexistence.
c. To defeat decisively; vanquish.
2. To nullify or render void; abolish.
God not only addressed these sins, God also addressed the subject of hardened hearts who refuse to listen to Him.
“What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” It does not, therefore, depend on man’s desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden. One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?” But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’” (Romans 9:14-20)
In effect, none of us can demand an absolute account of God for what he does. Even if he were to tell us, could our small and worldly minds ever really comprehend it? My thoughts are not your thoughts, and my ways are not your ways, says the Lord (Is 55:8).
“What does the Church offer Gay People?”
by Monsignor Charles Pope
To begin, the Church offers Gay people what she offers anyone else: the truth of God’s Word authoritatively interpreted, the Sacraments of Salvation, a vision for life, and the witness and support of the communal life, a communion with those now living as well as with the ancients whose voice and witness we still revere. We also offer respect rooted in truth.
Lets look at each of these areas in more detail:
1. As to the truth of God’s Word, St. Paul eloquently said to the critics of his own day:
We do not use deception, nor do we distort the word of God. On the contrary, by setting forth the truth plainly we commend ourselves to everyone’s conscience in the sight of God. (2 Cor 4:2)
Allow me to speak personally as a pastor of souls and say that to anyone who will listen (whatever their orientation or background), to anyone who draws near my parish, enters its doors and to all whom I can reach in anyway, I strive to speak the Word of God plainly, a Word set forth in Scripture and Sacred Tradition.
I will not, as St. Paul directs, distort the Word of God. I will not gainsay (deny) it, neither will I abbreviate it, seek to “expunge” it, nor can I permit it to be subsumed under human, political or cultural agendas.
To the very best of my ability I seek, as St. Paul says, to set it forth plainly, and commend myself to every person’s conscience. I seek the strength and courage to preach the Gospel, in season and out of season, (cf 1 Tim ) and to preach the whole counsel of God.
It is first of all this that Church offers the Gay Community, and every other believer as well: the unabridged truth, preached in conformity with the Sacred Text and Sacred Tradition.
In preaching I am not looking to offend, I am not seeking a fight. Rather, I am seeking to joyfully celebrate the truth of the Gospel that I have come to find compelling and life giving. And yet I realize that whatever my intentions, there are at time people who do take offense at what I preach or teach. But that they take offense, does not mean I have given offense, or intended to offend. Again, let me emphasize, I cannot, as St. Paul says, distort God’s Word as I have received it. I cannot and must not engage in deception or any misrepresentation of God’s Word.
Sadly today there are some denominations and preachers which do distort God’s word to conform to modern agendas such as affirming homosexual activity. They have been deceived and are leading others into deception by distorting God’s clear word on the sinfulness of homosexual acts (and many heterosexual acts such as fornication, adultery, incest, and other disordered and unnatural sexual practices that have become more common among heterosexuals today).
Does God Harden Human Hearts?
By: Msgr. Charles Pope
One of the more difficult Biblical themes to understand is the concept of God hardening the hearts and minds of certain human beings. The most memorable case is that of Pharaoh wherein, before sending Moses to him God said he would “harden Pharaoh’s heart” (Ex 4:21). But there are other instances where biblical texts speak of God as hardening the hearts of sinners, even from among his own people.
Catherine, in 3 years of public ministry, Jesus never uttered a word about homosexuality, even though a form of it was fairly common in the Roman empire. It just doesn’t seem to have concerned him all that much. However, every third post on CCD is on that topic, and if it isn’t, it gets twisted by CCD until it is made to be. It’s pretty clear that some people on this forum actually think and talk more about homosexuality than gay people do. It’s an odd thing; it makes one wonder why there is so much emphasis on this one item, when all around us there is poverty, war, injustice, disease, unhappiness, unbelief and the like. Jesus had a LOT to say about each of these other things, yet some just can’t seem to get their mind off the two guys across the street, or the moms in the next block.
Jesus uttered much about homosexuality, YFC; why do you lie, is it that you in your studied expertise simply make claims without having any facts to back them up or knowledge on the topic? You’ve had the Scripture verses pointed out to you in the past. Is it that your gomorrically dulled down mind does not remember? Or are you trying to pass on the error that Jesus is wholly distinct and not connected with His apostles, disciples, Gospel writers, Saints, and Doctors of the Church?
YFC that is a lie!
God the (Abba) Father, God the son, God the Holy Ghost….in other words one in the Holy Trinity.
CCD has run articles from National Catholic Reporter. I think that is what Francis meant. They have also run articles promoting gay things and pro-choice issues. Maybe they say something sarcastic in the subtitle to indicate that they disagree with the article or disparage the person talked about in the article but they still run it. I think they do this because their readership likes to monitor these things.
Anonymous, why are you attacking the living knowledge of the Church? Are you opposed to mental activity, knowledge of the truth, Truth, and the ways forged for the Church by the likes of Her Doctors such as St Thomas and many others who made many things clear to those who have sought the truth? What about Jesus, the Light of the World that shines into the darkness? Are you opposed to exposing evil?
First ?-I’m not. Second question-No. Third question-Love Him! Fourth question-No.
Anonymous:
Yes, that is exactly what I meant. And also, a substantial fraction of the comments are contrary to Church teaching in areas like charity and social justice. My guess is that NCR would censor about 10 percent of CCD posts for use of offensive language or disparaging remarks about the Church’s leadership.
Franics NCR is known to censor the Truth since it denies most Church teachings…
It seems to me that many cradle Catholics are fixated on the notion of “scandal”. Did you folks study Freudian Catholicism, or what? Why don’t you focus on the Gospel instead of all these legalist terms that ultimately have no purpose but to assist corrupt clergy in covering up their evils? When the Catholic bureaucracy was busy formulating all these minutia rules and regs, it was growing leaps and bounds. Bottom line is worship God, love your neighbor: If you do this, then you do not need to while away your life articulating every “turn the other cheek” event you can identify. If a bishop can be pinned with a scandal, then he whatever paltry good works he has to his credit certainly do not shout above the tree tops. In other words why should we strain out eyesight trying to find something in some bishop that reminds us of the Gospel? If a criticism makes a bishop look bad, then it’s because there is nothing of that bishop that is worth anything at all. We do not need “delicate” bishops.
Stange that it takes a liberal newspaper w/a very liberal reporter John Allen to find many reasons to prop up Pope Francis. Yet John Allen is precisely the reporter who did everything w/in his power including writing an unauthorized bio of Joseph Ratzinger with fallacious and negative stories even before he became Pope Benedict XVI. That bio was refuted courageously by those who actually knew Ratzinger whereas Allen never had ever even met him. It was all based on liberal agenda. So far as his reliability re truth … what more can be said.
Mr. Allen has been a speaker at the Los Angeles Religious Education Congress for at least the last 10 years. Lot of the times he flies just right above the radar. He is really good at it. Fish wraps so called token of catholic orthodoxy.
Non-Catholics, atheists, Protestants, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, noble pagans, neo-pagans, and many others can be quite bright, know a great deal, seek public discussion on moral issues, survival issues, and many other matters of importance. Obviously homosexuals do not want their ways and their spokespeople put into the limelight … because they are pushing evil, which craves darkness and deceit.
To the contrary, Skai. Have you not noticed that gay people have brought boatloads of lawsuits, some of which have findings of fact, about the lives of gay people. There are at least 3 think tanks that I’m aware of that study LGBT life and promulgate the results quite publicly. One of them is affiliated with UCLA School of Law. So, I see Skai that you are back to making things up, just so that you can level another unfounded insult at gay people.
The “National Catholic Reporter” supports pro-abortion politicians within the USA – such as Nancy Pelosi, Joe Biden, etc.
The “National Catholic Reporter” supported Sr. Carol Keehan on NETWORK who defied US Bishops in favor of Obamacare which promotes taxpayer paid abortions, taxpayer paid contraceptives, taxpayer paid voluntary sterilizations, etc.
The “National Catholic Reporter” violates many Church teachings – and has been told not to use the name “Catholic”. They are in violation of Code of Canon Law.
If I were to ask you to name two of your favorite saints? I bet everyone would have different ones and also some may even like the more popular well known ones too. Mine are St. Nick and St. Patrick , and I can name a few more but I still enjoy learning about other saints and their stories. Some are different than others, some are more for the poor and some were more for the intellect.
For example St. Thomas Aquinas was known as the dumb OX, but we all know he was no dumb ox at all. How about St. Augustine. His background makes us have hope, that someone who lived such a careless and immoral life had a miraculous conversion, thank goodness for his Mum’s devotion and humility with her prayers for him, St, Monica.
Looking back in the biblical times I’m sure some people preferred St. Paul’s style over St. Peter and St. Peter was our fist Pope, he also is the Rock in Which our Lord has build His church upon…..
Our faith is beautiful…..we have a new Pope yes indeed and he is still new…lets see how well he takes Christ’s church to where Christ commands him too….I know Previous Pope Benedict did plant many good seeds, I saw many good improvements of love and truth…..
It is a big church throughout the world with different cultures and backgrounds….the church not only needs to serve the poor but also the wealthy who may also be poor of spirit…the church is for everyone…we all need to be fed. We had the blessing to know Pope John Paul, Pope Benedict and now Pope Francis…three Popes in my lifetime thus far….I don’t know what the future holds but for now…my prayers is for our church, the richness of our faith, for people to grow more holy, virtuous and to gain back the fear of the Lord in their hearts….
Great post Abeca. I have lived through different Popes since 1942, and I see wonderful virtues in all of them. The last three have been gems, too, as far as I am concerned. Each in his own way has suffered through some kind of poverty. John Paul suffered through Communism, Benedict through the Nazi era and Francis through the slums around him. God bless them all.
Hi Anne T great points you have made…God bless you….they are wisdom filled.
Abeca,
Dana and Anne T. are right! Those are such insightful and beautiful posts! Thank you sweet sister in Christ!
Thank you Catherine….I appreciate your support…God bless you
I thank you Abeca and Catherine also. Some posts on here are like people comparing their children or relatives — one against the other, instead of seeing the good in all of them and gently correcting any faults without comparisons. I know. I have done it. It is so hard not to do it that we should all pray for the grace of “non comparisons”. I do so like to coin phrases and words. Ha! ha!
Oxen pull wagons. St Thomas Aquinas pulled the Church through its ruts with his theology and his evidently childlike faith. “Dumb”? Because he is said to have described all his great works as “straw”. So, I’m left with the impression that the greatest intellect of mankind (and obviously he was one of these) is dumb in comparison to divine intellect. Hence, “Dumb Ox”. Did I make this up? Yes, but maybe it carries some water, eh?
Interesting Skai…from what I learned is that they called him Dumb Ox because at school he was very quite and people didn’t think he was smart….well I guess it is what it is…I don’t think it was meant to be read into but you do have interesting conclusions. They also have a cartoon of am ox which is cute, I think some people relate that to St, Thomas. He is no dumb ox but he I guess to those who are immoral he may be…..so it must be a compliment when it comes to the heavens. : )
His story is very intriguing. I enjoyed even the children’s book that they have of him. I suppose if we looked at it as you see it, yes then you would be close to it, if not even to the point. : )
“Do not muzzle the ox who treads the grain”, and so St Thomas the Dumb Ox tread a great deal of grain, from which the Bread of Life is made.
Oh yes Skai….yes that one…good one…you make more sense…
I don’t get it…ONLY IN THE USA do we have extreme couponing….I saw a show that showed people getting groceries worth over $500.00 for almost next to nothing through using coupons, they have basements of stuff…..how are considering these people poor….just for the sake of saying that they saved a lot but who needs 20 deodorants, tons of stuff and have almost left without paying anything for it while there are the real poor in other countries….how is that possible.
The Lord taught us not to hoard. I remember around the year 2000 someone wanted to sell me a six months supply of dried food because some thought there would be a coming computer glitch which would cause rioting and food shotages according to them. Yes, I have a clean garbage can of canned and other food, bottled water and other supplies for earthquake preparedness which I have to rotate, but any more than that to me, along with the food in our pantry, would be just hoarding and causes food shotages and prices to go up. I refused to buy that much, and our family came through the year 2000 just fine. In the end we must rely on the Lord for our daily needs. It did encourage me to get our fireplace clean and the chimney repaired, though, and stock up on wood, which is always a good thing. Later we gave some of the wood to our daughter and her husband.
It helped during the 1989 earthquake, too, that our neighbors and we had supplies. We all helped each other turn off the gas, etc. I keep batteries in my freezer, and they last indiffinitely, so I lent flashlights or batteries to those who needed them during that time. We all shared and came through just fine. That is the way it is meant to be.
I agree with you Anne T…. : )
Because production of goods is never exactly in the amount that will be bought. Thus there are often surplus goods, and it costs less to dump them free than to continue trying to sell them. Also, often the govt pays for the dumping, either in money or tax rebates to the mfgrs.
Why do we need to understand Pope Francis? Pope Francis is to help us understand who Christ is and His church…..the richness and beauty of the faith…the good news to bringing more to the faith and sanctifying grace. We need to understand and live out God’s salvation plan for us. Our Pope has a huge job ahead of him.
“He said to him the third time: Simon, son of John, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved, because he had said to him the third time: Lovest thou me? And he said to him: Lord, thou knowest all things: thou knowest that I love thee. He said to him: Feed my sheep” John 21:17
Thanks Abeca…that was really an insightful post. Too much emphasis on a man and not on our Lord! PS My favorite saints are Saints Anthony of Padua and Martin of Tours. I have a really good film on St. Anthony, and it just seems like he is part of my life…besides saving me tons of money for finding stuff I didn’t need to replace. haha. St. Martin of Tours is like a protector. He was a soldier and defender of the faith besides being a bishop and at one time a hermit…he life was so varied and unpredictable. Anyway, he is very special. We are so blessed to have these friends aid us in our struggles and in our happy moments.
…and St.Damien of Molokai who I first came across in an old Book of Knowledge story when I was quite small. His story haunted me all my life and I named my son after him (I wasn’t Catholic at the time) I give much gratitude for his intercession in my life and think he had much to do with my conversion. I painted his picture on a tee shirt for my son’s birthday one year, and it moved me greatly.
Dana,
What a very sweet story, painting St. Damien’s face on your son’s tee shirt. I think you are right about the intercessory aid from St. Damien of Molokai. I am sure glad that you painted that tee shirt…And yes, the saints are our friends. A priest once told me that if you think that someone has loved you and others greatly while living on this earth, you can’t even begin to imagine the intercessory help from that person who is now in heaven! The saints ARE powerful intercessors. On earth there are obstacles, but in heaven there are no obstacles for the saints when it comes to intercessory assistance. Dana, My mother also loved St. Damien of Molokai and she picked the name Damien as a middle name for my brother. Dana, I am not surprised one bit to read that you have the talent to paint a saint’s face on a tee shirt. I cannot draw or paint a good stick figure. I took an art painting class with my sister one time and we all ( teacher included) got the biggest laugh out of my artwork. The class was ocean themes and I painted the lamest looking seagulls. The reason we all laughed is that the art instructor pointed out the fact that when you paint seagulls flying high in the sky, you usually are not able to see their feet. I had painted some very noticeable black seagull feet on my birds in flight. I commend your artistic ability as well as your sweet motherly gesture of choosing to paint St. Damien’s face on your son’s tee shirt for a birthday. That is a moving story Dana!
Thanks so much Catherine, and it’s delightful to hear about your mother’s love and regard for St.Damien. My son lost his faith while being indoctrinated at the Uof Wsh. getting his master’s. I pray for the Cardinal Newman Society everyday for their work with college students in an effort to stem the tide of aggressive atheistic ‘priests’ of nilhilism and despair (aka professors) who actively indoctrinate their students with no oppositon to thwart them. Sorry, I digress. I feel guilty Catherine that I don’t use my artistic skills to serve God in a bigger way! I painted Our Lady of Lourdes statue for my church several years ago (saying her novena and praying every day) but I just seem to fritter my training and it makes me so sad. What a funny story about the seagull’s feet. You have an unusual sensibility, to say the least…it’s really difficult to draw or paint birds’ feet so you took on a difficult feat! (pun intended)
Dana those are wonderful saints too and I am grateful that you connect your conversion to St. Damien. It’s neat to know people’s favorites saints….it’s neat to know why and how they touched them in a special way. You are correct, we are very blessed to have their prayers. I know I need them. We all can say we need them, even when some don’t even know it yet.
Abeca, I was really touched when you shared your love of St.Nicholas and St. Patrick. Actually, I never would have guessed that! I’ve often wondered if Catherine’s was St.Catherine of Siena? She’s smart and a bit fiery like her namesake. I read a bio of St. Catherine by Sigrid Undset (who got the Nobel prize for lit.) and if nothing else, it brought home how saints are really not like the rest of us…she was called at age five! and took on her whole family and community to resist marriage etc. and her life was nothing but faithfulness and love of God. I felt really unworthy and wasteful reading of her sacrifice and zeal. (also, I confess a bit put off at some of her enthusiasms…yikes) I picture you being a bit like St.Theresa of Avila…outspoken and brave.
Thanks Dana….your words are sweet. Hey St. Theresa of Avila another wonderful saint…I never thought of that and what an honor for you to think of me through her too, I appreciate you seeing me that way….keep us in your prayers though….I too shall keep you in my prayers.
Yes St. Nickolas and St. Patrick…I like them so much that I bought the cartoon story of St. Nick for my kids and I still enjoy watching it and and St.Patrick I have several of his movies in different versions too. St. Patrick I was touched by his story especially since he had a gift to convert pagans…I often prayed to have that gift but that is not what God planned for me and St. Nicholas well its a long story…for another time. Tee hee
Hey I understand, sometimes I too get a little taken aback…I didn’t like it when some saints would whip themselves…those things I could not understand to self hurt as a punishment but I must understand that back in those days that was customary…we have to understand their time in history as well. I’m glad God chose marriage as my calling even though when I was a young girl I was considering of being a nun. Glad I realized it wasn’t my calling…I think that whatever God calls us to that it will not always be easy but at least we find joy in even in the hard times all because we embraced our true calling.
Catherine of Siena another beautiful saint and perhaps she could be one of my favorite female saints…..yes I could see Catherine liking her too…and now you got me thinking about St. Theresa of Avila….I’ll add her to my list because you mentioned her…it’s not a coincidence. I have a movie about her but it is in Spanish..really well made.
Has anyone watched Gran Torino with Clint Eastwood? This movie shows the reality of good people living in poor neighborhoods and stuck having to raise their children around gangs and violence. What I appreciate about this movie is the right to carry a gun…this displays Clint Eastwood, being old school, uses a gun to defend and protect his neighbors from the gang who wants to force a young man to join them.
On another note….Jesus hangs out with those high up in Jewish leadership, He reached out to tax collectors, wealthy lawyers etc…..they too are poor not in worldly things but poor in spirit and need Jesus.
What I appreciate about our faith is that it helps the poor endure their poverty and persevere in goodness with gaining more virtuous and appreciation of things, the rich, the faith helps them, on their own choice, to help others and make a difference through hard work. I don’t know what we would do without our faith, it won’t be good.
“What I appreciate about our faith is that it helps the poor endure their poverty and persevere in goodness with gaining more virtuous and appreciation of things, the rich, the faith helps them, on their own choice, to help others and make a difference through hard work. I don’t know what we would do without our faith, it won’t be good.”
Abeca, That statement reminds me of what Blessed Mother Teresa said in Long Beach, Calif. “America has gained technology but America has LOST it’s sense of God.” She also said, “The downfall of America would come through the sin of abortion.”
Abeca you are right and you have stated the truth so beautifully. America IS saturated with the slums of spiritual poverty. Our Catholic Faith teaches us to avoid the pitfalls of worshipping false gods and ideologies that deceive. Blessed Mother Teresa would have never advocated the killing of another human being yet even in death, the father of lies influences his working minions to detract from Blessed Mother Teresa’s Christ-like compassion for the dying poor lying abandoned in the streets as well as the spiritually poor in America. Yes, Mother Teresa was a living saint and her detractors are the same detractors that would still prefer to set free the false ideologies of Barabbas while imprisoning the truth and condemning her goodness even though many had witnessed the many miracles and good works of Blessed Mother Teresa.
We see the disparaging imbalance of reporting the truth when media outlets are driven to attack those whose only mission on earth was to serve others by obediently serving Christ.
Wikipedia-Blessed Mother Teresa of Calcutta
She was the recipient of numerous honours including the 1979 Nobel Peace Prize. In late 2003, she was beatified, the third step toward possible sainthood, giving her the title “Blessed Teresa of Calcutta”. A second miracle credited to Mother Teresa is required before she can be recognised as a saint by the Catholic Church.[1] She was admired by many; in 1999, a poll of Americans ranked her first in Gallup’s List of Most Widely Admired People of the 20th Century. *However, she has also been criticized for failing to provide medical care or pain killers because she felt that suffering would bring people closer to Jesus, for misusing charitable moneys, and for maintaining positive relationships with dictators”*
Wikipedia – Harvey Milk
Despite his short career in politics, Milk became an icon in San Francisco and a martyr in the gay community.[note 1] In 2002, Milk was called “the most famous and most significantly open LGBT official ever elected in the United States”.[1] Anne Kronenberg, his final campaign manager, wrote of him: “What set Harvey apart from you or me was that he was a visionary. He imagined a righteous world inside his head and then he set about to create it for real, for all of us.”[2] Milk was posthumously awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom in 2009.
Blessed Mother Teresa is someone I admire…I’m glad you brought her up. She was a beautiful soul who represented so much humility and love. She touched my heart often and still does…even my kids did book reports on her when they were younger. Growing up, she inspired me to also want to volunteer and help the homeless. I use to visit her order as well, they have one near by my house, where you can visit, they have adoration, we would remove our shoes and go inside and pray. I enjoyed taking my kids to that.
Now about Harvey Milk…yes truly poor in spirit and that is what many are missing here….we have many of his like today….your comments are true and that is what I try to convey often…the devil distracts us from what really matters to the point that he often disguised himself as for the poor and good but notice how the liberals always preach for helping the poor and that includes giving them free abortions, free sex changes and for whatever reason….some are falling prey to those lies. God have mercy….
I want to see that movie, Abeca, but it costs $1.99, so I’ll wait til some pirate version pops up on youtube. BTW, one can also learn about saints by praying to them. That is a bit more hair raising than reading of them in books or even reading their books. After I read Summa of the Summa, by Peter Kreeft, which is a pared down work of St Thomas Aquinas, instantly my writing became clear and my thoughts became manageable. The power of Saints is beyond astonishing.
Skai you are funny…you mean Gran Torino with Clint Eastwood? I know some may not care for the movie but I did enjoy it, even though it may have been a secular movie. I can understand Clint’s character because I use to work in a smog shop as a manager, yes dainty feminine me, with dresses and heals, modestly and professionally dressed working with smog shop mechanics…kinda funny, like snow white and the seven dwarfs..probably didn’t fit in but who cares. Tee hee……the men there were old school and with values but less bitter than Clint’s character and without the bad language. LOL…..Skai I love all saints movies, my husband has a library of them, I probably have seen them all….sorry about the out of place Clint Eastwood one but thought it fit the subject, you have immigrants who are poor and live in bad neighborhoods and they try to have a better life even with the gang activity issue.
Wish I could mail you the $1.99……lol : )
Eastwood movies always include a context of religion, often along lines of vengeance and yet with the goal of making life safer for communities of good people. When one reads St Augustine one can begin to see how he identifies the major errant religious mindsets. All these mindsets have good qualities in their practical applications, although all are limited in various ways as to the extent of their goodness.
You can check most movies out for free at the library…and all the documentaries and PBS series, like Downton Abbey. Our library has them all up to this year…also exercise dvd’s, WWII & all history channel stuff. I get most books for my kindle free through the library…some from amazon have to be ‘returned’. I love our libraries. Plus, through interlibrary loan, there is hardly anything you can’t find. I have Jame Hitchcock’s “History of the Catholic Church” right now…I think it is a bit more than I have time to chew, though.
I often wonder if some who hold harsh sentiments about our Pope Emeritus Benedict…if some suffer with jealousy or envy? I am not saying that anyone does here but I wonder why would anyone bash him? So what if he wore fancy robes, yes, they representative of pointing out to the richness of heaven. Pope Emeritus ( and I thank Dana for helping me use the right title because I keep saying previous Pope) is a humble gentleman filled with wisdom and knowledge coming from the faith….just because he didn’t choose to ride the bus or be like Pope Francis, it doesn’t take from who he really is…a holy man and is human too.
A little background about me: as a child, before we owned a house, we use to live in apartments….I never saw us as poor, even though our income may have expressed that, but it was also a time when mum’s actually were staying home and dad’s could really do a lot with the little income they made….we use to visit my grandmum over the summer…she didn’t have a normal bathroom or shower, we had to go on the ground and then get a bucket of water and that was used to flush down….anyhoo and also when showering, we would warm up the water and that was used to shower us in a room that had drainage but no shower. It was chilly….My mum finally one year bought my grand mum her first refrigerator. They didn’t own a car, so walking was customary and also using public transportation bus and if we splurged we would get a taxi… that was fun and fond memories of mine. Many of their neighbors lived alike or worst than my grandmum, no government assistance at all but they sure lived the Catholic faith so well, they attended daily mass and it was the church that gave them their convictions and faith back then. yes sure they had their troubles as any of us but what convictions and traditions they kept busy with…nothing compares ….but we didn’t feel them poor….nor did I feel poor until I grew up older that I thought, hey wait a minute….my mum worked hard to get us to be citizens of this great country and give us the best she could, I am grateful to her for that and my grandmum taught me that you don’t need a lot to feel rich in Christ and in faith.
I recall one summer while we were visiting, my mum knew this one lady from the market there and they invited our family over for dinner…they lived in a shack, literally, they had some kind of tarp over their roof and the surroundings where made of brick, they didn’t have a stove but a comal….they had nothing much to eat except for beans and hand made tortillas and from the live stock that they had, like chickens, lamb…well a few, they killed fresh lamb in honor of our visit….they cooked a yummy feast. They are the humble poor who taught me that no matter how poor one is, that they still share the little that they had. I will never forget them, their generosity and welcoming love….they knew Jesus. They only had a few beds, so you would often see families all sleep together sharing beds. We did too when we would visit my grandmum. Those were the fondest memories….and the stories they would tell us kids to get us to listen and know God. Treasures, its all i got to say.
Abeca,
Yeahhhhh Abeca! I loved that post! OK Bob One and anonymous, if you want to understand what it REALLY means to have the Catholic faith then please re-read what Abeca just wrote. That was such a beautiful testimony.
There are many bad influences that can terribly mislead many into believing and worshipping false ideologies at the altar of MSNBC, instead of truly understanding what it means to be a faithful Catholic. Pope Francis would also love Abeca’s beautiful humble accounting of her love for the poor who are extremely rich in the spirit of their Catholic Faith.
Catherine, we are all called to live the Faith. And we are all supposed to love everyone. Yes, it is easy to love the humble, hard-working poor. Everyone does. The Christian challenge is to love all men, like Jesus did. I really don’t know enough about MSNBC to understand your comment on worshipping false ideologies. We have many great examples of living the Faith in the Saints, which abeca brought up also.
OK, Anonymous, now that you admit that you have examples for living the faith, it is nigh time you begin your faith journey. Give us reports from time to time.
Skai we luv ya….why of all Anonymous comments, yours come off more reasonable……anonymous comes off as bitter to me…..having it’s own personal agenda’s……
Patience! Peace! God will reward us for all we suffer in His Name.
We can sin in thought, word and deed. Other Christians say this:
Watch your thoughts because they become words.
Watch your words because they become actions.
Watch your actions because they become habits.
Watch your habits because they become your character.
Watch your character because it becomes your destiny.
Badmouthing other people is a very bad habit. It arises from bad thoughts. It speaks volumes about a person’s character.
Skai, I don’t know if you are Catholic or whether you just come on here to wind people up. But you are correct. My time would be better spent in prayer and in service than on the internet. Even though you meant it snotty, it is good advice. Internet addiction or social forum addiction is a growing problem. People feel like they are socially active when they are really reclusive. It is not good for them and it does not serve the Lord well.
Anonymous sounds like k???
“The Christian challenge is to love all men, like Jesus did. ”
THERE IS NO LOVE IN COUNTERFEIT CHARITY
The Gospel of John Chapter 13 Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible
[34] A new commandment I give unto you: That you love one another, as I have loved you, that you also love one another. [35] By this shall all men know that you are my disciples, if you have love one for another.
[36] Simon Peter saith to him: Lord, whither goest thou? Jesus answered: Whither I go, thou canst not follow me now; but thou shalt follow hereafter. [37] Peter saith to him: Why cannot I follow thee now? I will lay down my life for thee. [38] Jesus answered him: Wilt thou lay down thy life for me? Amen, amen I say to thee, the cock shall not crow, till thou deny me thrice.
Anonymous, The Catholic challenge is to remain Catholic without hiding, denying or watering down the truths of the Catholic Church!
The Gospel of Matthew 10
“Do not think that I came to send peace upon earth: I came not to send peace, but the sword. [35] For I came to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
[35] I came to set a man at variance: Not that this was the end or design of the coming of our Saviour; but that his coming and his doctrine would have this effect, by reason of the obstinate resistance that many would make, and of their persecuting all such as should adhere to him.
[36] And a man’ s enemies shall be they of his own household. [37] He that loveth father or mother more than me, is not worthy of me; and he that loveth son or daughter more than me, is not worthy of me. [38] And he that taketh not up his cross, and followeth me, is not worthy of me.
Matthew 23:15 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you go round about the sea and the land to make one proselyte. And when he is made, you make him the child of hell twofold more than yourselves.
Matthew 23:27 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites; because you are like to whited sepulchres, which outwardly appear to men beautiful but within are full of dead men’s bones and of all filthiness.
Matthew 23:28 So you also outwardly indeed appear to men just: but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
Matthew 23:33 You serpents, generation of vipers, how will you flee from the judgment of hell?
Matthew 21:12
And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the money changers, and the chairs of them that sold doves:
John 2:14
And he found in the temple them that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting.
John 2:15
And when he had made, as it were, a scourge of little cords, he drove them all out of the temple, the sheep also and the oxen, and the money of the changers he poured out, and the tables he overthrew.
Taken from the USCCB Website
*“I loved Jacob but hated Esau.”*
14 * What then are we to say? Is there injustice on the part of God? Of course not!
15 For he says to Moses: “I will show mercy to whom I will. I will take pity on whom I will.
16 So it depends not upon a person’s will or exertion, but upon God, who shows mercy.
17 For the scripture says to Pharaoh, “This is why I have raised you up, to show my power through you that my name may be proclaimed throughout the earth.”o
18* Consequently, he has mercy upon whom he wills, and he hardens whom he wills.*
19 * You will say to me then, “Why (then) does he still find fault? For who can oppose his will?*”
20 But who indeed are you, a human being, to talk back to God? Will what is made say to its maker, “Why have you created me so?”
21 Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for a noble purpose and another for an ignoble one?
22 What if God, wishing to show his wrath and make known his power, has endured with much patience the vessels of wrath made for destruction?
23 This was to make known the riches of his glory to the vessels of mercy, which he has prepared previously for glory,
Witness of the Prophets.
25 As indeed he says in Hosea: “Those who were not my people I will call ‘my people,’ and her who was not beloved* I will call ‘beloved.
26 And in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’
there they shall be called children of the living God.”
27 And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel, “Though the number of the Israelites were like the sand of the sea, only a remnant will be saved;
28 for decisively and quickly will the Lord execute sentence upon the earth.”
29 And as Isaiah predicted: “Unless the Lord of hosts had left us descendants,
we would have become like Sodom and have been made like Gomorrah.
* [9:13] The literal rendering, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated,” suggests an attitude of divine hostility that is not implied in Paul’s statement. In Semitic usage “hate” means to love less; cf. Lk 14:26 with Mt 10:37. Israel’s unbelief reflects the mystery of the divine election that is always operative within it. Mere natural descent from Abraham does not ensure the full possession of the divine gifts; it is God’s sovereign prerogative to bestow this fullness upon, or to withhold it from, whomsoever he wishes; cf. Mt 3:9; Jn 8:39. The choice of Jacob over Esau is a case in point.
The people who post here who do not hide, deny or water down the Church’s teaching or who don’t try to manipulate them for their own political and cultural agenda are insulted, vilified, lied about, accused of being gay supporters and mocked. Please stand up for the faith, even when the person breaking the Commandment is someone that you usually flatter.
Catherine excellent comments…I am really growing tired of Anonymous policing…..there is something not right…..there is something missing to it’s comments. I don’t know if it is a he or she….but I don’t take it’s comments seriously. They are no different than the woman at one Latin Rite Parish…..who kept policing women for not wearing their veils to mass. It’s as if her radar came on when one forgot or for whatever reason….One day I forgot to wear mine and there she was in my face….I was grateful when the pastor there told everyone to stop being the veil police and to allow him to handle it. I was relieved. I don’t wear a veil to my other parish but when I do attend the Tridentine Mass I usually do but there were a few times that I forgot my veil at home because I was rushing out and because I felt worried that the veil police was going to come after me, I chose to attend another parish.
abeca is calling someone out for policing? Pot meet kettle.
Thanks Catherine…oh chucks I have nothing to prove to Bob one nor Anon…really….or anyone of them….they keep missing the point, that frankly I don’t care…..life goes on….
If I shared with you more…..I lived in poverty even when I was very small when we stayed with my grandmum because you see at that time my mum was a single mum….she left to Acapulco and even Mexico the capital to make sure we had food and shelter and clothes…..we didn’t see my mum often because of that…she had no choice so we lived with my grandmum for a short time, at first my little sister and I had to be split up, she stayed with my cousins who lived more poorly and I with my grandmum. Later on my mum married my wonderful Arabic dad, who gave us his last name and adopted us. It was my God’s blessings that my mum worked so hard to get us citizenship of this great country and that is how she met my papa. I feel blessed and love my papa so much(God rest his soul)
continued …..my aunt was so humble that she thought my PJ’s were day clothing…so she would put on my PJ’s during the day when we went out, I tried telling her that my PJ’s were for bed time only but she didn’t get that….too cute….but I never felt poor, I had lots of love from my family and the faith was very strong, live and well.
It was a treat to go Mass with my grandmum….she would walk us over to the statue of Cruzified Jesus and have us kneel, tears would come down her face….and then we too would be moved…I could almost feel my heart pumping so hard….at that age I didn’t understand why Jesus was suffering….all I knew was I knew he was so real and I didn’t want to cause Him any more pain so I would tell Jesus, in my child voice…”Diocito perdoname si yo to ise eso” God forgive me if I have caused this to you. So I kept asking him to help me be good. : ) There was no question in my life that Jesus existed…not one bit. I always saw His hand in everything…my grandmum always pointed those thing through her humility and great witness…and that would mean not often using words except for when she was teaching us the bible and the faith….that was good too. : )
: )
There was times too when they would have days that fresh water wasn’t running…so they have Pila (which is a cement like enclosure, kinda like a wide well, square shape and not real deep I suppose, is best I can describe it) that would save water for days when they would shut off the water supplies, they later on used to heat up because they had to kill any bacteria. The Pila was connected an old fashion scrubbing type of cement made device to wash clothes and dishes as one would reach in to get water. Hard to describe, wish I had a picture of it.
My grandmum had an avocado tree that gave us the best avocado’s and for lunch we would have hand made tortillas and smother avocado’s and sardeen’s….yummy….we would all share one can of sardeen’s….between us all. You only needed a few and lots of avocado to fill the tortilla…my aunt added to much salt though, not to healthy…we would of course have fresh fruit and some veggies….yum..what a feast…and nope we never felt poor…oh yea it was a treat to go to the next door neighbor who sold sodas from their garage….we would get Mexican cola….I also liked Fanta.
Abeca, may I correct one of your words? “Chucks” is a tavern; “shucks” is the leaves from ears of corn. They both have their purposes. Chuck’s is quite valuable; shucks are cheap and people throw them away. Also “shucks” is a word with a concept that implies humility, honesty … “Shucks folks”, let’s get down home if we are going to all understand about this … “Shucks” is a key word, which signals the hearer or reader that we are now going to talk like real brothers and sisters who are like candid little kids with no guile. It’s like that Barney Fife character in Mayberry … “Shucks, Andy. I let (the town drunk) out of the cell this morning so’s he could get on over to the church to hear the visiting preacher.
Skai you are correct and I type this with a big smile because I enjoyed your comments….so correction to my post instead of “chucks” I meant shucks…..
I like your explanation and correction better….awe shucks i goofed : )
Thank you Abeca. That was a great testimonial. I originally suggested that you visit a food bank. I forgot to add – if you haven’t already. Your comments indiacate that you know a lot more about poverty in our country than I gave you credit for. Sorry!! I think that you and I may just disagree on the cause and the result of what the system has done to create the poverty that exist in this country. We can discuss that at a later date, but for no w, I am impressed with your first hand knowledge of poverty and its causes. Thanks.
Bob one you are a real gentleman…God bless you…and I apologize if I have been harsh on you too…you are right we may from time to time not agree on some things but we do care about the real poor. I am humbled by your response….
That was interesting Abeca Christian. That’s more like it.
PA what do you mean that’s more like it? I am not looking for your approval…just because you don’t get the other comments, I don’t say them to gain approval from you. PA you may find some of my comments insulting but you are far more insulting. But who cares….if I cared for what everyone thought, I would not be were I am now….always striving to get close to God. He is my rock and my everything….after all what matters more is our salvation.
Let us not forget…..that many saints came from wealthy families too, let us not forget the rich and wealthy, they need Jesus too….especially more because they have so many comforts…that I’m sure it blinds them more…..Jesus is with them too especially more if they are needing to know Him….we need to pray for the wealthy too, the drug dealers, those in crimes that burden more the poor, we need to pray for their conversions…..Christ is for everyone…don’t anyone ever forget.
PA and I didn’t mean to come off so harsh on you on the last comment…no pun intended but guess I do speak my mind and well there you go…..
Abeca Christian, I realize that you have a strong dislike for homosexual persons and sometimes it gets to me. I am interested in people’s stories, their personal histories, so it was good to hear a positive story from you, something from your family history.
…PS and yes, Jesus was such a major part of our lives back then. All kids went to church…even if he or she wasn’t a believer. And you wore your Sunday best and you had your bath on Sat. night and the oldest got to take the first bath water down to the youngest, who had the dirtiest water…but we never thought about it. Talk about being environmentally friendly…these spoiled ‘green’ people are so wasteful it boggles my mind! And MarkPA, Abeca does not dislike homosexuals…she dislikes homosexuality. Actually, I’m utterly sick of the whole selfish lot of homosexuals, who think ONLY of having their own way and care nothing for anyone or anything but themselves , and I’m tired unto death of hearing their incessant demands and their tirades like spoiled little brats that I wish someone would teach them some manners, and how to share, and to be considerate of others once in a while. What they don’t seem to realize is, it’s NOT ALL ABOUT THEM. Since when does one tiny little loud and obnoxious minority get to shove the whole country around? It’s crazy! It’s anti-social and anti-Christian, anti-God, and anti-any-thing traditional. And then to whine because no one likes them just takes the cake!
PA no I don’t have a dislike for homosexuals….you just don’t get me….that is all…on the contrary I actually care for them more than you know…their salvation is far more important to me. Why can’t you ever see that? If it gets to you it is because you don’t understand it and that should be what gets to you…not the lie that you think I dislike them. That is not the case….I don’t have time to repeat myself…you should of gotten something good from my past comments but I can’t help it that you don’t….
PA okay I will give you the benefit of the doubt and accept your answer that you meant no ill from your comments from April 11, 2013 at 3:30 pm. My apologies..glad you liked my comments this time around.
That was indeed a testimony of faith and it is this faith that proves that “all things work together for GOOD for those who love God, for those who are called according to His purpose”. In poverty, illness and abandonment, with God we can not just endure but keep our dignity and hope. My grandma was poor as well, Abeca, with an outhouse and all her food coming from her garden and money coming from her children, which they could ill afford. (My grandfather died in his 40’s) She received nothing from the gov’t though four of her sons fought in major battles in WWII in Europe and the Pacific. She was totally committed to Jesus, and always hummed a hymn quietly as she worked. She never missed church and read the Bible through every year. I loved sitting with her at her old kitchen table by the wood stove listening to her stories and poems. When she lost her memory from hardening of the arteries, and forgot even the names of her children, she always knew Jesus…we saw that she had all 52 names of her grandchildren, with her 11 children in the back of her Bible that she prayed for everyday. I sent her flowers for her 75th birthday, and it was the first time anyone had ever sent her flowers. What will our grandchildren say of us, I wonder? That we looked half our age? That we made alot of money? That we sent them really neat toys? God bless you Abeca and Catherine. Aren’t we lucky to be women of God, though?
Then Dana you understand too…..I bet you at that time you didn’t know you were poor because you had what mattered the more….love and Jesus Right? That is what I am trying to convey….
Thank you sweets, God bless you too and your fond memories of your grandmum….so precious!
That’s so true, Abeca, we didn’t feel poor then for one reason there was not this huge disparity between rich and poor. None of us had much in the fifties. You could travel across this whole country, and real estate, gas prices, food, just about everything was priced just about the same. There were not these ungly, monstrous houses you see now…the doctor lived in the same neighborshood as the rest of us, just in a little bit better home…and he still made house calls. You had the super rich in the cities, of course, but in the small towns the disparity was nil. And it was considered in really bad taste to flaunt your wealth, no matter who you were. The tacky name dropping and designer labels started in the 80’s. (actually, I think the 80’s were the beginning of the real divide between rich and poor and liberals and conservatives. ) Reagan was a great president, but he was very divisive.
I meant to say, “Aren’t we BLESSED to be PEOPLE of God?” yikes, everyone will condemn me for saying lucky and women!
nah Dana I know what you meant…..we are all human….lol
But we’re not all righteous like Anonymous who is so righteous that he or she can afford to be lukewarm and take no part in the action aspect of Love. Wow, I wonder how Anonymous decorates his or her throne of righteousness or is it a big pillow? Reminds me of an old sci fi classic of a brain in a glass jar with antennae sticking out, and it represents pure intellect w/o the inconvenient truth of the material world and the necessity of action of the body in making one’s life work for oneself and family, neighbors and communities … the one exception to Jesus’ rule about spitting out the comfy and lukewarm.
That was just weird.
Are you and abeca the same poster?
Skai good comments from April 12, 2013 at 5:18 pm. You are correct. I feel the same way. Folks would you look at Anon asking if Skai and I are the same poster….that is hilarious. I am a she and he a he, a gentleman. That is funny. I think Anonymous is only playing games because I was wondering of Anonymous was ever k? I know that there were times that k admitted to forgetting to add her k name and it came as anonymous…so that is why I asked because their style is the same and there are times that when people forget to add their name that anonymous comes on….but in my computer Abeca is there not Skai…
So to answer your Anonymous question….no we are not the same posters…we are against deceiving others….so rest up now that you know the answer…
Anonymous, you should seek treatment for your gender confusion.
Skai if he or she lives in California that option may not be available for the good souls who want it. Sad but true.
You did not answer, did you?
Catholic Encyclopedia
Impenitence of the damned
“The damned are confirmed in evil; every act of their will is evil and inspired by hatred of God. This is the common teaching of theology; St. Thomas sets it forth in many passages. Nevertheless, some have held the opinion that, although the damned cannot perform any supernatural action, they are still able to perform, now and then, some naturally good deed; thus far the Church has not condemned this opinion. The author of this article maintains that the common teaching is the true one; for in hell the separation from the sanctifying power of Divine love is complete. Many assert that this inability to do good works is physical, and assign the withholding of all grace as its proximate cause; in doing so, they take the term grace in its widest meaning, i.e. every Divine co-operation both in natural and in supernatural good actions. The damned, then, can never choose between acting out of love of God and virtue, and acting out of hatred of God. Hatred is the only motive in their power; and they have no other choice than that of showing their hatred of God by one evil action in preference to another. The last and the real cause of their impenitence is the state of sin which they freely chose as their portion on earth and in which they passed, unconverted, into the next life and into that state of permanence (status termini) by nature due to rational creatures, and to an unchangeable attitude of mind. Quite in consonance with their final state, God grants them only such cooperation as corresponds to the attitude which they freely chose as their own in this life. Hence the damned can but hate God and work evil, whilst the just in heaven or in purgatory, being inspired solely by love of God, can but do good. Therefore, too, the works of the reprobate, in as far as they are inspired by hatred of God, are not formal, but only material sins, because they are performed without the liberty requisite for moral imputability. Formal sin the reprobate commits then only, when, from among several actions in his power, he deliberately chooses that which contains the greater malice. By such formal sins the damned do not incur any essential increase of punishment, because in that final state the very possibility and Divine permission of sin are in themselves a punishment; and, moreover, a sanction of the moral law would be quite meaningless.
From what has been said it follows that the hatred which the lost soul bears to God is voluntary in its cause only; and the cause is the deliberate sin which it committed on earth and by which it merited reprobation.”
you are right Catherine…good comments…I notice that some here accuse the faithful of hate.
It is good that you exist.
Grave matter indeed, Catherine…when the sinner becomes his sin.