The following blog by Cardinal Dolan appeared August 16 on the website of the archdiocese of New York.
Last week I was out in Anaheim for the annual Supreme Convention of the Knights of Columbus. It was, as usual, a most uplifting and inspirational event.
In his rousing address to the thousands of delegates, representing 1.8 million knights, Dr. Carl Anderson, the Supreme Knight, exhorted us to a renewed sense of faithful citizenship, encouraging us not to be shy about bringing the values of faith to the public square. This duty, he reminded us, came not just from the fact that we are Catholic, but also from the fact that we are loyal Americans.
He then went on to announce a promising initiative of the Knights of Columbus to foster civility in politics. Quoting a very recent study, he noted that over 80% of Americans are fed up with the negativity, judgmentalism, name-calling, and mudslinging of our election-year process, and eagerly want a campaign of respect, substance, amity — civility!
For seven decades, the Al Smith Dinner here in New York has been an acclaimed example of such civility in political life. As you may know, every four years, during the presidential election campaign, the Al Smith Dinner is the venue of history, as it is the only time outside of the presidential debates that the two presidential candidates come together, at the invitation of the Al Smith Foundation, through the archbishop of New York, for an evening of positive, upbeat, patriotic, enjoyable civil discourse. This year, both President Obama and Governor Romney have accepted our invitation. I am grateful to them.
The evening has always had a special meaning, as it is named after Governor Al Smith, the first Catholic nominated, in 1928, as a candidate for president, who was viciously maligned because of his own Catholic faith. Smith was known as The Happy Warrior, because while he fought fiercely for what he believed was right, he never sought to demonize those who opposed him. And, the dinner named in his honor is truly life-affirming as it raises funds to help support mothers in need and their babies (both born and unborn) of any faith, or none at all.
The Al Smith Dinner has never been without controversy, since, as Carl Anderson reminded us, politics can inspire disdain and negativity as well as patriotism and civility.
This year is surely no exception: I am receiving stacks of mail protesting the invitation to President Obama (and by the way, even some objecting to the invitation to Governor Romney).
The objections are somewhat heightened this year, since the Catholic community in the United States has rightly expressed vigorous criticism of the President’s support of the abortion license, and his approval of mandates which radically intruded upon Freedom of Religion. We bishops, including yours truly, have been unrelenting in our opposition to these issues, and will continue to be.
So, my correspondents ask, how can you justify inviting the President? Let me try to explain.
For one, an invitation to the Al Smith Dinner is not an award, or the provision of a platform to expound views at odds with the Church. It is an occasion of conversation; it is personal, not partisan.
Two, the purpose of the Al Smith Dinner is to show both our country and our Church at their best: people of faith gathered in an evening of friendship, civility, and patriotism, to help those in need, not to endorse either candidate. Those who started the dinner sixty-seven years ago believed that you can accomplish a lot more by inviting folks of different political loyalties to an uplifting evening, rather than in closing the door to them.
Three, the teaching of the Church, so radiant in the Second Vatican Council, is that the posture of the Church towards culture, society, and government is that of engagement and dialogue. In other words, it’s better to invite than to ignore, more effective to talk together than to yell from a distance, more productive to open a door than to shut one.
Our recent popes have been examples of this principle, receiving dozens of leaders with whom on some points they have serious disagreements. Thus did our present Holy Father graciously receive our current President of the United States. And, in the current climate, we bishops have maintained that we are open to dialogue with the administration to try and resolve our differences. What message would I send if I refused to meet with the President?
Finally, an invitation to the Al Smith Dinner in no way indicates a slackening in our vigorous promotion of values we Catholic bishops believe to be at the heart of both gospel and American values, particularly the defense of human dignity, fragile life, and religious freedom. In fact, one could make the case that anyone attending the dinner, even the two candidates, would, by the vibrant solidarity of the evening, be reminded that America is at her finest when people, free to exercise their religion, assemble on behalf of poor women and their babies, born and unborn, in a spirit of civility and respect.
Some have told me the invitation is a scandal. That charge weighs on me, as it would on any person of faith, but especially a pastor, who longs to give good example, never bad.
So, I apologize if I have given such scandal. I suppose it’s a case of prudential judgment: would I give more scandal by inviting the two candidates, or by not inviting them?
No matter what you might think of this particular decision, might I ask your prayers for me and my brother bishops and priests who are faced with making these decisions, so that we will be wise and faithful shepherds as God calls us to be?
In the end, I’m encouraged by the example of Jesus, who was blistered by his critics for dining with those some considered sinners; and by the recognition that, if I only sat down with people who agreed with me, and I with them, or with those who were saints, I’d be taking all my meals alone.
For original column, click here.
Cardinal Dolan for president!
“Scandal” means leading people into sin. How would not inviting either candidate lead anyone into sin? How would inviting only Mr. Romney do so? Inviting Mr. Obama, however, will indeed lead people into sin. It will lead people to blur the distinction between matters of intrinsic evil and matters of prudential judgment and to vote with an ill-formed conscience. Presumably, for that very reason, New York Cardinal John O’Connor did not invite Bill Clinton to the Al Smith Dinner in 1996. Further, the Knights of Columbus’ initiative to foster “civility” is a poor disguise for not expelling scandalous public Catholics who are Knights, such as the ones who voted to legalize same-sex pseudo-marriage in New York. We are living the “diabolical disorientation” of which Sister Lucy wrote in 1970.
This is and will be a huge scandal and will lead many to vote once again for this immoral man.
Crdl Dolan needs to stand up and be an apostle, challenge this man publically. It is wrong to invite this man to a dinner to help women, children and the unborn….his policies show that he assigns no value to any of them. obama is anti marriage, family and the unborn…he should be made an example of all we should not be.
The Holy Father refused to have an official photograph taken with Pelosi…how much worse is it to sit down to a meal with the devil?
Dolan is turning his back to the beauty of the teachings of the Church. Can’t this Apostle stand with the Church in the hour of our need?
Perhaps the cock will crow three times in the early hours of Oct 19, 2012 before the good Cardinal realizes the sad weakness of his decision.
Paul Joseph,
I checked the Supreme Council KofC website, and they once again passed a Resolution at the Supreme Council Meeting in Anaheim, CA that if enforced would accomplish what Article 162-7 of our Rules and Procedures demands; however they have passed this same Resolution since at least 2003, and Supreme and some States have actually forbidden the enforcement of this duly passed Resolution.
You don’t have to believe me, the Supreme Advocate, Marella, actually issued a letter to the New York State Advocate, stating that Only Supreme could suspend or expel a brother Knight, and that, as the late Cardinal O’Connor, explained in the Wanderer is plain out wrong.
There is hope though, I understand that at least Eighty Councils have shown the guts to suspend their membership with Supreme until they finally carry out their duties before God and our fellow Knights. I have received several phone calls and E-Mails from irrate Knights who want to do something about this, and I expect to soon be on a Worldwide Net Radio Show concerning this scandal. Stay tuned.
Since we can’t list contact information here, I give California Catholic permission to give out my contact information to those who ask for it. I am also listed in the Anaheim, CA phone book.
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
Thank you, Mr. Fisher. I will definitely follow up on this.
A few years ago I was invited to a small breakfast gathering of not quite a dozen KOC members and wives. The topic of abortion came up and a survey of views ensued: Most of them could care less, and maybe half of them thought it was ok. That was all she wrote for me concerning the KOC. I prefer the Catholic Church.
I had a feeling this would be Monday’s story.
It seems Michail Gorbachev nearly needed to make an emergency bathroom break when he met Pope John Paul II, he was so nervous. Of course the Holy Father could have refused to meet him, after the assassination attempt that had Mowcow’s fingerprints all over it. Or, given allegations by a former eastern block intelligence chief that the top leadership of the Russian Orthodox Church were extremely close with Soviet intelligence, perhaps the Pope should have boycotted them. But then later generations, which were less vividly aware of contemporary WWII conditions, presumed to judge that Cardinal Pacelli, the future Pope Pius XII, should nor have signed a concordat with Ribbentrop in the late 1930s. Long story short, just maybe we don’t have all the information. We certainly don’t have the responsibility. Just maybe Cardinal Dolan is receiving special graces commensurate with his office. Were we all sure to pray for him first, before issuing our exalted judgment on the situation?
When Hitler came to Rome Pope Pius XII left town.
Did religious superiors receive commensurate “special graces” to transfer pederast clergy to new parishes? I’m sure you mean well, but sometimes prudential judgments are less than prudent. Inviting Mr. Obama to the Al Smith Dinner is just such a case.
Charlio yes we continue to pray but for anyone to accuse us of issuing an exalted judgment on this situation makes me more confused? yes because you just gave us an exalted judgement, perhaps some unnecessary guilt for not wanting to take this lightly. I understand that the Unborn are to young to reason and make such judgements especially when they are being tortured in the womb.
Cardinal Dolan has been more than prudent with his comments and actions. Has has also shown considerable political prowess with his comments in this column.
This is precisely why Dolan and not Burke, Bruskewitz, et. al. is the Archbishop of NYC.
This is precisely why Doctor of the Church St. John Chrysostom (347-407) said that the road to Hell is paved with the skulls of bishops.
So you have memorized one short quote that some use for inflammatory rhetoric. Anything substantial?
Define “substantial.”
Still waiting. . . .
Rodda, as you have proven yourself to be quite adept at rhetorical sound bites devoid of substance, I find this retort of yours to be sadly humorous!
Rodda, you’re obviously paid in some way to provide a sound bite for the bedfellows of government and clergy. If you cannot recognize substantial ideas, views, and facts, then look up the word “fool”.
This is precisely why droves of uncatechised scandalized Catholics will once again vote for the most immoral, anti-woman, anti-children, anti-Catholic, anti-family, anti-marriage, (and include anti-jobs, anti-bussiness, anti-enconomic for all of you who view his govt. programs as fulfilling the Catholic social justice agenda as opposed to doing it yourself) shameful president this country has ever seen…and we have only this kind of political pandering to thank for it! You are right, it is “political prowess”, that Dolan is exhibiting; not “apostolic prowess” in leading and teaching the faithful by example that he should be doing…I’ll take Burke or Bruskewitz any day…at least they are in defense of all that obama is attacking! And thanks be to God; they are not afraid to be “politically incorrect”!
No. Inviting President Obama to this event will not cause what you suggest.
All I can say is thank God Dolan is the Archbishop of NYC and not reactionaries like Burke and Bruskewitz who would fail in that assignment.
Rodda Alice is right. Scandal causes this confusion, I’m so sorry that you do not see it. The Cardinal would of been better off, having privately invited Obama for a conversation not to a very public and publicized event such as this one. But I guess if Obama never repents and corrects all the evil he has promoted here on earth, all the damage he has caused and all the misleading of souls he has mislead, then his rewards are here on earth, here he will appeal to many, he will dine at the best places and even dine in with Christ’s leadership….many chances he will also have for conversion but when someone is deeply submerged in his bad will, so full of comforts and edification, directly or indirectly….how will his soul be challenged to seek the truth? Obama is appealing, his evil ways may even fool the unsuspecting, he is promised that and more for doing evil deeds in this life. This is not to be taken lightly but to understand that a man’s soul is at sake, offer up prayers for Obama’s conversion please….but inviting him to this dinner may not help with that, you can’t tell me that the Cardinal will reach him? If that happens, I will rejoice but something tells not to be fooled…
What I “suggested” is not the cause of anything…obama is anti-everthing I listed…that is a fact. The “political prowess” exhibited by Crdl Dolan is not going to change any of those things and in fact will only cause scandal and confusion in the pews.
Bruskewitz and Burke are good and holy men…if they are “reactionaries” to the evil around us, that is what Our Lord intends from his Apostles. We should all be such “reactionaries.”
Rodda, your disrespect in your reference to our Cardinals by using their last names without their titles or even a C. or ABSHP. etc. shows a want of understanding of true Church teaching. All of us get frustrated and are accused of being hateful, but it is because we hate sin and love God, which is not the same as hating everyone who disagrees with us. I can’t believe anyone would call Cardinal Burke, who is a sensitive, brilliant man, a reactionary. You need some quiet time for reflection and self-examination (as do we all!). Please, just ask God to open your heart and mind to His truth and seek to obey His will for you rodda. You obviously must care or you wouldn’t be contributing to this site. May God bless you, and I’m sorry for my sarcasm in earlier posts. As you can see, we’re all fighting spiritual battles.
George Soros also believes that he has “political prowess” and George Soros has all of the money he needs to use his *political prowess” to *redefine* (as Rick DeLano so eloquently stated) Catholic Church teaching for the New World Order. Now we have a poster named Rodda who writes these words about Cardinal Dolan: “He has also shown considerable “political prowess” with his comments in this column.”
Does Rodda not understand the Catholic faith or is Rodda deliberately using political prowess on CCD to also undermine the Teachings of the Catholic Church? God sent his only son to redeem us. God did not send his only son to use or advocate the use of *political prowess*. Christ let Pilate know that His Kingdom was not of this world. Cardinal Dolan is letting Obama know that his kingdom is of the world of “political prowess.”
Neville Chamberlain also relied heavily on his political prowess and many lives were lost. Here we have a Cardinal who is causing grave scandal and it is true that many souls will be terribly affected by this, first and foremost Obama’s soul. The Cardinal is teaching from a political standpoint and this is NOT Catholicism. Rodda summed it up very well. This column is *political prowess* leading to ruin.
Your mentioning Chamberlain brought another face to mind…that of Archbishop Sheen! How he would have hated what is happening to the Church now! He stood for truth and honesty like a shining beacon. There was no deceit in him. When we try to please people rather than God, we can’t help but live a lie, for there must be deceit manifest in the ever-shifting roles needed to please everyone. Clowns have always frightened me, ever since I was little. I always wondered who the person was under the disguise and why he was always such a fake. Actually, I never liked circuses either. They always struck me as rather sordid and sad. That’s what has been bothering me about what is taking place in this country, Catherine. Deep down, it’s like the circus has moved in with the big top and nothing is real anymore, which gives it all a nightmarish quality…over-hearty laughter, fake pleasure and meaningless entertainment and people have forgotten how to be real. The worst insult Cardinal Newman gave anyone was that “he isn’t real”. I want real, authentic Christianity, and no more of this tawdry civility and gimmicky words like social justice and diversity.
Can you imagine Archbishop Sheen calling for us to be civil? haha
Dana, No, I can’t imagine Archbishop Sheen calling for us to be civil.
LOVE IS NOT TOLERANCE..by Archbishop Fulton Sheen
“Christian love bears evil, but it does not tolerate it.
It does penance for the sins of others but it is not broadminded about sin.
The cry for tolerance never induces it to quench it’s hatred of evil philosophies that have entered into contest with the Truth.
It forgives the sinner, and it hates the sin; it is unmerciful to the error in his mind. The sinner it will always take back into the bosom of the Mystical Body but his lie will never be taken into the Treasury of His Wisdom.
Real love involves real hatred; ***whoever has lost the power of moral indignation and the urge to drive the buyers and sellers from the temples has also lost a living, fervent love of Truth.***
Charity, then, is not a mild philosophy of “live and let live”. It is not a species of sloppy sentiment. Charity is the infusion of the Spirit of God which makes us love the beautiful and hate the morally ugly.”
It is a good thing to clarify and the Abp can be assured of my prayers. However, I teach my kids that “if” is not a valid appology – it denies responsibility. Secondly, a pastor doesn’t just “long to give good example” he is canonically and morally bound to do so.
ANN ASHER i admire your insight into the pyhrase “IF i have offended you” or “IF i have given scandale.”
one should simply apologize and say “i am sorry i caused scandal.”
if there are mitigating circumstances, such as the history of this dinner, then one can go on to say, “i apologize for causinng scandal, however, this dinner always includes both cnadidates…etc., etch. etch.”
in this way, he can apologize and also educate people about the policy behind such invitationations.
as he points out, even the holy father met mr. and mrs. obama at his home…
max,
There is one big problem with your statement above, and that is that his predecessors didn’t always invite both candidates!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
sorry…from my limited reading on this dinner, i thought they always invited both guys.
I typed out the teaching on Scandal from the CCC but it did not get posted. Maybe it was too long. It is 2284-2287.
Ann Asher I’m glad you pointed out the “IF” part, you give a good explanation to that in which I agree with and also it clearly may show that perhaps people do not see their sinfulness for what they are. When saints directed themselves into Christ;s light, they knew very well their sinful nature, they saw themselves more in the mirror and knew their sinfulness more clearly but most of us are DE-sensitized and usually have a harder distinction of their true sinful nature.
I agree with you that “If” is not a valid apology in the way that I suspect you understand it. However, the archbishop laid out his reason for doing what he is doing. He is clear that meeting with the head of state, with sinners, is what Jesus would do. It seems to me that Obama is a done deal, he will win the election. I would not vote for him and I suspect that the archbishop will not either. The “if” of his apology is not “if” in a whimpy way, he has laid out his plan and so be it. They were scandalized at Jesus and “as they persecute me so they will persecute you.” There is nothing to apologize for, as president of the bishops he is doing what he can at the 11th hour!
Despite these polite words, scandal HAS been given. By saying one thing, and doing another the faithful are confused, and sins are committed. It is not easy being a Catholic; it is a challenge, and when the easy way is chosen, Christ is betrayed once again. Our Blessed Lord said “he who is not with me, is against me, and he who does not gather with me,scatters. The graceful and proper thing for His Eminence to do is to disinvite Obama, and put his money where his mouth (and faith) is.
Father,
It takes a real man and Shepherd to admit he is or was wrong, don’t hold your breath.
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
Thankfully you’re not the arbiter of what is scandal and what is not. I’ll choose Cardinal Dolan’s judgement over your own anytime…
See Rodda’s statement….clearly what the Cardinal did has definitely caused scandal…more division….Where there is confusion/division, there follows darkness.
When Jesus sat with sinners, He told them to sin no more. When Mother Teresa sat with the Clintons, she told them to kill babies no more. When Cardinal Dolan sits with Obama, he will not tell him much of anything, will he?
Juergensen yes and also Jesus was not a sinner……how can we perfect eating with sinners when we our selves are sinners….what is the humble thing to do? Dine alone, better to than with bad company…If we have exulted ourselves above God than we fool ourselves into thinking that we are eating with sinners just like Jesus did. We weren’t born to save the world…..but to serve God in perfect humility through Him and in Him, if we eat with sinners in Jesus, then believe me, Obama would not have accepted this invitation. His pride is much bigger.
Rescind the invitation to the one who promotes the killing of unborn babies and same-sex marriage!!
REALLY ? How many same sex marriages should we start attending. How many hands should we hold during an abortion, need I go on. Evil is Evil period. When the decision was made to invite Obama they knew this would wake many Catholics and stand up. This falls right in line with ” All are Welcome “. Vomit still tastes terrable.
What the good Cardinal said makes a whole lot of sense to those that can understand what he means, but to Obama and his media, this is just another method of divide and conquer. When Pope John Paul II met with leaders that were evil, he didn’t have them at public dinners, but, he met them privately, which Cardinal Dolan should be doing, not at a political dinner, seeing how Obama is NOT a politician, but, is indeed, a dictator! I saw Obama at the ’08 dinner and he had very funny lines, but, what is there funny about birth-control, abortion, same-sex “marriage”, the loss of our freedom, higher taxes, the destruction of our Constitution and our country and the open assault against God? NOT A THING, which is why he should not have been invited. +JMJ+
Nonsense, The Cardinal is breaking bread with an enemy of the Church plain and simple, however I will pray of the Archbishop and his brethren, I will pray that they will understand Obama and his ilk are an outright enemy of the Church found Our Divine Savior Lord Jesus Christ and that they start treating them as such, this crowd would have no problem burning our parishes in the name of tolerance. Their goal like all Leftists is drive us out of public square and straight to cemetery
Canisius,
If you saw the movie “For the Greater Glory”, you can’t help but compare Obama with Presidente Plutarco Calles, the murderer of thousands perhaps millions of devout Mexican Catholics.
I would not be surprised to learn that Obama channels with Calles.
Have produced holy cards to Blessed Jose Luis Sanches del Rio. Contact me for the download information at: kmfjmj@att.net.
Viva Cristo Rey!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
If it is tragic that one faithful Catholic is scandalized, then what is it when thousands are scandalized? The Catholic Church needs authentic leadership, not wolves in sheep’s clothing, who lead the souls to damnation. If you dance with the devil, you will get burned.
Jesusity is right…
If people can’t see the difference from accepting an official visit from various heads of state to INVITING them to a social event relete with schmoozing and commraderie then of course, by all means be civil and puhleeze cut the criticizing already! For those of us that want a spirit filled shepherd leading us rather than a savvy politician we want truth and accountability. Obama has been lying very civilly for four years. He’s been very gracious in his ruthless destruction of our democracy and deserves high marks according to the standards of C.Dolan and his supporters. I suspect this is all art of some backroom deal and someone will end up with egg on his face, like after the so-called same sex marriage deal he thought he’d made in the NY legislature. Playing footsie with the devil is never a good idea. Also, I’m always amazed at the tremendous values expressed in simple prepositions . What if C.Dolan had said ‘THAT’ rather than ‘IF’ he gave scandal. (he certainly doesnt think so) I’m sure it is just such convoluted lies and game playing that led to the monastic movement. All I want to do is be alone with God and to hell with such a pack
of knaves. Note Maryanne Leonard doesn’t say ‘Dolan for Pope’ for which I am thankful as the former is much more suitable, to be sure.
Mary and all the saints, pray for us!
After some reflection, I must add that now that the decision is made, we must pray for good to come from this. I think it would be a mistake for the cardinal to disinvite a president of the United States! Not only would it be in very bad taste and discourteous but also sends out a message of weakness. Let’s just keep praying everyone, for Cardinal Dolan, and for our beleaguered Church. I thank CCD for this opportunity to blow off steam and I feel much better and have been able to make some sense out of all of this and of course, being obedient to Jesus must be my first priority. It’s a done deal and now it’s a matter of praying for Cardinal Dolan to be sharper than a wily serpant…he’s already as gentle as a dove!
good for him.
if it’s always been the polidcy to invite both candidates, there you are.
Thank you Cardinal Dolan. You are the real deal! A truely inspired successor of Peter and what it means to be “Christ like”.
Christ never broke bread with Pilate or Herod
Pilate or Herod would have had to invite Jesus to dinner. Would Jesus have declined? Also, the term breaking bread indicates communion and the Al Smith Dinner is not a Mass.
No it is not Mass but he is making nice with an enemy of the Faith, enough of this go along to get along, its time to stand up to evil, not coddle it. No more dialogue, no more tolerance, More Lepanto and a lot less Vatican 2
you are so misguided Canisius–Jesus always sat with sinners–and thank goodness He did or we’d all be doomed.
Sandra why do you feel that he is the misguided one? I care to differ…..
I am hardly misguided, Christ did not dine with Pilate or Herod and had Judas leave the table before the last supper…I can tell you are another misguided Catholic who thinks are religion is nothing but love… Wrong its admonishment and standing up to evil, which Obama is
None of the Gospels indicate that Judas did not receive communion with the others. The Last Supper is written of in Mt 26:17-35; Mk14:17-26; Lk:22:14-38 (v.21 says “And yet the hand of my betrayer is with me at this table); Jn 13:1-38. John is the only Gospel that speaks of Judas leaving the meal. It is the only Gospel that does not have the institution of the Eucharist but in v.18 Jesus quotes Scripture (Ps 41:10) saying “He who partook of bread with me has raised his heel against me.”
Canisius Christ is all about love but love by His standards not by the standards of this world…
K,
All the Gospels tell us Judas was sent away before the First Mass was even begun and that is what the Church teaches. Your Bible quote is entirely wrong and taken out of context. “He who partook of bread with me has raised his heel against me” was Christ’s response to John when he asked during the supper, “Lord, who is it?” You suggest the Church has not figured out when Judas was sent away. The priest at Mass says very clearly ” When supper was ended…” get it, ended? Besides, if Christ were to have given the Sacred Species to Judas He would have caused him to sin doubly (St. Paul 1Cor 11,27) to even suggest God in His Mercy would lead someone to sin much less be a participant in that sin is blasphemy
I did not suggest that the Church has not figured out when Judas was sent away. St. John Chrysostem, St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas all acknowledge that Judas recieved communion. I have seen it called Apostolic Tradition but I cannot confirm that. Yes, it is not correct to say that Christ caused him to sin doubly anymore than it is correct to say that Christ caused him to sin by saying “Be quick about what you are to do.” It is not correct to say that Jesus was a participant in his sin. Do you have a source that indicated that Judas did not receive? Everything I find says that he did.
The apology is very well worded. It still does not take away from the fact that a good percentage of Catholics who are liberal Catholics and who voted for President Obama will take the evening as a sign of approval from Cardinal Dolan. Sad to say, not a lot of Catholics think as deeply as Cardinal Dolan does and will only see the photo ops of the President and Cardinal Dolan…..and not read the text or the Cardinal’s remarks. And for Rodda…..does she not realize that Cardinal Burke is in the VATICAN and not in NYC. Yes, we will pray for Cadinal Dolan that he will have an opportunity at the Al Smith Dinner to make his feelings known to the President and the people of the U.S. Maybe he will hit a home run and tell the people what a culture of death the Democrats have promoted and continue to endorse. Abortion is one of the planks of the Democrat party. I pray the Cardinal will follow the lead of our Holy Father when Nancy Pelosi visited the Vatican. He did not allow any photo ops of himself with Nancy Pelosi.
Disinvite him.
Christ did not sup with Caiphas,Pilate or Satan.
Sorry-don’t buy it.This Cardinal is too much the Politician.
Bill Clinton was DELIBERATELY not invited.Does Dolan think he can NICE Obeelzebub into taking it easy on the poor helpless Catholic Church?
It’s a photo-op to appeal to FRINGE “Catholics”-the unfortunate majority.
Dolan refers to Abortion a license? The K of C are opening a campaign of civility in political campaigning? I guess the motto is ala Rodney King: “Gee, can’t we just all get a long?” Yes, let’s just go to dinner, have a drink with the man who is abortionist in chief. Be condescending to the Mormon, offer him a drink or maybe a cup of coffee?
For heaven sakes we are in a war for humanity. Who’s side is Dolan on anyway?
Arch Dolan’s comments in the last paragraph can so easily be taken apart but I won’t waste my time. Better to take your meals alone than lose one’s soul!
Great to read how our bishops can talk their way out of anything. Yes, he is right, that the most important thing, the crux of the Gospel itself, is to lessen the vigor of mankind’s political rhetoric. Forget abortion, sodomy, cloning, and holiness … just tone down the language a bit and there’ll be “Peace in the Valley”. Gee, if only Jesus had thought of that!
He did!
k, Jesus did not tone down the language, nor did He present a Gospel of smiley faces. I would never have presented the paradox had I dreamed you would actually believe Jesus is a get along to go along type.
JLS, now you are changing what you said initially. The Crux of the Gospel is to trust God and obey him and to love Him and your brothers and sisters for He loves you and all people. The Gospel is this: Jesus Christ died so that sins could be forgiven. He did that for the love of man. Jesus did not challenge the political system. He told Pilate that he would have no power unless it had been given him from above. He submitted to the death penalty although he had done nothing wrong. He did not speak about abortion, sodomy or cloning. And when he spoke of holiness-“Be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect.” he was speaking, not to politicians or synogague officials, bu to his followers. He was not a get along to go along type at all or vice versa. His admonishments to the Pharisees were to people who thought they were better than other people because they obeyed the rules and Jesus told them they were whitewashed tombs. Because they ignored the heart of the law which is to love God and people. They were critical and judgement religious snobs who could point out what everybody else was doing wrong, but they could not recognize God when He was standing right in front of them. The sinners-those who knew they had done wrong-He treated with mercy. Remember he said, “I came to save sinners not the righteous.”
Excellent balance, k, to the point of irrelevance. Have you ever looked up the word, “decision”? It might surprise you.
You consider Christ irrelevant?
I’m waiting for the picture of the Cardinal standing between Romeny and Obama with both arms around them with his head thrown back laughing. *Sigh*
This is a scandalous act by the Cardinal.
I applaud Cardinal Dolan who is so wise and prudent and holy. While he defends his dining decisions, this wise, prudent cardinal ignores our priests who have been dumped by their dioceses for accusations that no one knows if they are true or false. I pray that Cardinal Dolan remembers these priests in his prayers. It is sad that none of the Catholic clergy has publicly prayed for priests in prison who are like the rich man in hell, pleading for a drop of cool water. They are pleading for their bishops, fellow priests, and friends to pray for them, to visit them, and to write to them. They feel abandoned by those they served. Please remember these priests in your prayers.
Yes, our Lord did eat with sinners because everyone was sinners, though he did not break bread with Herod or Pilate!
Cardinal Dolan deserves our prayers and support in this matter. There is no need to apologize for doing one’s Christian duty in such an important functoin. Like so many Americans, I am saddened by the negative tone of today’s political discourse. If the Al Smith dinner can take a small step in the direction of civilty, then it deserves our prayerful support. Shunning the President because of his dreadful policies gives even more credence to the divisive “bash their heads in” mentality so common in America politics today. This is different that the Notre Dame controversy, it’s a traditional gathering for the two candiates. Let’s give it a chance to work. We can render to Caeser his due on November 6.
You rock, Cardinal Dolan!
” If the Al Smith dinner can take a small step in the direction of civilty”: What a crock of hog puddle fantasy, goodcause!!!
When Pope Pius XI learned that Hitler was coming to Rome, he closed the Vatican, locked the museums and left town. Pope Pius did not want to be associated with or even be seen near the man responsible for the extermination of Jews, gypsy’s and Fr. Maximilian Kolbe.
Abp Dolan.should disinvite Obama, lock the Cathedral for the night and take a trip to Philadelphia. Shame on Dolan for 1) inviting the man, Obama, most responsible for the mass extermination of unborn babies, and 2) for writing a shameful defense for a scandalous act.
Keep writing to Dolan!
I applaud Jurgensen at 4:11 am and Max at 7:21 replying to Ann Ahser. The use of the word “if” as a rhetorical device is most unfortunate IMO. He should simply have stated the obvious: “I have caused scandal” and then gone on to defend his position. Whether his position is defensible or not is another matter. I just get the feeling the Cardinal is being disingenuous and condescending.
Father Karl nails it when he says:
“Despite these polite words, scandal HAS been given. By saying one thing, and doing another the faithful are confused, and sins are committed. It is not easy being a Catholic; it is a challenge, and when the easy way is chosen, Christ is betrayed once again. Our Blessed Lord said “he who is not with me, is against me, and he who does not gather with me,scatters. The graceful and proper thing for His Eminence to do is to dis-invite Obama, and put his money where his mouth (and faith) is.”
May I additionally add – someone else commented and I repeat it here …….that that those Catholics who voted for Obama the last election will now consider this invitation as permission, given by the head of the bishops conference, to vote for him again – and if Obama is elected again…..God help us!
Cardinal Dolan’s logic is simply wretched, as his is theology. In fact, he continuously gives scandal, and is much more in the comfort zone with someone like “Sister” Schneiders, in another of today’s CCD’s reports. It does little good to try to argue with liberal apologists, like Cardinal Dolan, already the “victor” of the NY legislature, when it passed a critically important homosexual marriage bill, that he could certainly have at least greatly delayed (with diligent effort). Compare Cardinal Dolan’s serial failures with the strength demonstrated by Cardinal Burke, particularly in his comments to laity to continue to devote energy to advancing tradition and true Catholic theology. This is sad, like finding the smoking gun in a crime story in the locked closet of favorite relative.
Dearest Cardinal Dolan,
My thoughts and most heartfelt prayers are with you and all the clergy. May God bless you and keep you ever so close to His Sacred Heart.
Nothing written/said by putative orthodox Catholics when the story broke of (then) Archbishop Dolan allegedly paying hush money to pedophile priests in Milwaukee, but invite both men running for President in 2012 to the Al Smith Dinner and CCD’s switchboard gets lit up. President Obama is dining with a sinner, too.
One of the reasons Card. Dolan makes for the invite is to further good will, fellowship, and civil discourse. This, with the most radical promoter and advocate of abortion and now same-sex marriage president, while at the same time the Church has a lawsuit against his HHS policies. If you are in the middlle of a lawsuit and the person was killing your children, would you invite them to dinner? This is truly absurd. Maybe the good cardinal can show good fellowship and humor discussing, with Obama, the almost 4000 babies that will be aborted that day throwing in a few diocesian jokes. There is still time, he can invite Cecile Richards , pres. Planned Parenthood, and the ever charming Nancy Pelosi, with them the Cardinal and Obama, I can hear and see all the riotous laughter and good fellowship already. This IS a scandal for the Church and to the memory of the millions of slaughtered unborn and those working to end it.
I have read scholarly works that indicate Pope Pius XII left town when Hitler came calling for the sake of preserving his own life and to make it harder for Hitler to continue to threaten the very existence of the Roman Catholic Church in Europe. I don’t think Cardinal Dolan would have been wise to invite only Romney to the Al Smith dinner. His motives are pure, high and holy, as well as practical in that if the Catholic Church were to be perceived as wholly Republican, our tax exempt status would be wiped out as quickly as freedom of religion is being wiped out at the present time. His inviting both candidates for a traditional evening of sociability, companionship, entertainment and civility is another way of allowing the candidates to show their true colors and requires no apology whatsoever. Would dissenters propose inviting only Republicans to this dinner, or perhaps never inviting anyone at all to come sit down and talk with us of an evening? What in the world is the danger in doing so?
MaryAnne,
Many priests and active pro-life Catholics beleive that the Chruch in America would be far better off if it gave up the “Thirty Pieces of Siver so called Tax Exemption”!
Wake up and smell the garbage before it chokes you to death.
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
Smile at the govt and keep the money flowing happily. The last thing the red hat means on a cardinal’s head is blood. Better a million abortions than an unhappy bishop’s face.
So what Cardinal Dolan is saying is “So, I apologize if I have given such scandal.”…. and what he’s doing is … I’m having Obama to the Al Smith Gala anyway, scandal or no scandal, full speed ahead!
Really, how pastoral Your Eminence
There is another way out of this for the Cardinal, he doesn’t show up to the dinner…..
Cardinal Dolan’s actions do not help at all….I know because look at the division we have here on this forum. Why do these comment come off as politically correct?
You are right. William Donahue of the Catholic League came out in support of Cardinal Dolan and now he, the outspoken conservative defender of Catholicism, is being attacked by conservative Catholics.
What exactly, k, is it that these people are conserving? My first guess would be that they are conserving the abortion rate, second that they are conserving the perversion rate, and third that they are conserving the money flow from govt through episcopal hands including tax exemption in exchange for not saying anything that disturbs govt plans or activities.
JLS, did you mean The Catholic League? No. It is Mr. Donahue who is the go to person in the media when they want a Catholic opinion that will oppose the left or the progressives. He is kind of a self-appointed Catholic Anti-Defamation League. He protests Barbara Walters and the View, the DaVinci Code, Lady Gaga, atheist billboards, the way Catholics are portrayed in the media. Today he is promoting a survey that says that liberals give the least to the poor. Or if you meant the conservatives that are attacking him-no, they are Catholics who disagree with the invitation to Obama, but they probably agree with everything else he does.
Cdl Dolan has no meaningful excuse. Anyone who values his smiley face over countles souls has no excuse either. Their smiles are really smirks as they count their pieces of silver.
Idea: Bishops all wear a thin layer of silly putty over their faces, so that any slight expression other than smiling will go unnoticed.
The easiest way out of this fire storm that Cardinal Dolan and his advisors have created is to cancel the dinner. The Cardinal would be
off the “hook” and so would President Obama. As my mother said to me as a child when I had done something wrong and I apologized – “sorry does not cut it”. There has to be more to an apology than words. So,
Cardinal Dolan – please cancel the Al Smith Dinner. You will be more highly respected for bowing out gracefully than going ahead with the dinner and compounding a gross error of judgement. I truly pray you do.
President Obama had no trouble going back on his word with you about the HHS mandate so he better than most people would understand your
decision. I say this with all due respect to you and your office as I know you have an extremely difficult job.
Humility would be to ask if we can forgive these actions, humility would be to remember the dead, the unborn, to ask them “I beg for your forgiveness, I ask for forgiveness,”….When the faithful are praying at abortion clinics, passing out resources for mum’s to choose life….how can we take this invitation to Obama so lightly! When pro-lifers organize hours and hours and even money to organize a prayer vigil at a planned parenthood function, having signs, getting the work out to get enough to show up…how can we take these actions lightly in inviting the man in power to promote death on the unborn, on the elderly etc. I don’t know if this apology is enough to suffice all the work and hours one took to try to save more babies, the money spend to defend marriage…it’s like setting us back…..it’s like politics have more power over the hard work many faithful have worked so hard to accomplish good deeds.
We are the bad guys now if we find it hard to accept this apology. I recall when I was pregnant with my 3 rd child that did live, I was collecting signatures to help stop partial birth abortions, I recall standing all day with my big belly collecting signatures, talking to people, with my back aching and sore legs, I recall getting treated badly when I tried getting approval to have my table up on other Sundays, I recall the cruel words and or rejection received for standing up for life….
the spiritual war I had to endure….I recall those discomforts…all the while Cardinals now has wonderful dinner inviting the biggest enemy of our faith, Obama, how can I neglect reason and logic that my heart speaks out to me and tells me that this is unjust, these dinners are unjust….it they bore good fruit of conversion, then yes but they have not thus far.
Don’t quote me “that Jesus ate with the Sinners”! I know my bible well enough, I love and adore Jesus to know well enough that this does not apply…..Jesus was not a sinner! This dinner is a dinner of sinners dining with sinners!
I don’t want anyone to insult my intelligence anymore, nor hurt my heart for what is right, nor my love for life, and nor my faithfulness to Lord and Savior. SO NOW WE ARE THE BAD BUYS because something tells our hearts, that this is not acceptable……God please help us to truly seek your forgiveness and truly do what is righteous in thine eye’s, we have a lot to lose when we water down what is just and true!
…….Maybe humility would be to accept this apology and leave in God’s hands…..while many are aborted daily, while marriage is under attack by the unnatural…..enjoy your dinner…sure lets take this lightly….I hope they have vegetarian, not that all are vegetarian, but they have to be fair and serve all needs, on the menu and for dessert, Chocolate….. but wait Mormons can’t have Caffeine, so make sure they offer non-Caffeine beverages….water might suite better….yes I sound crazy but I hope to convey how crazy this truly is. Lord when a woman menstruates she bleeds heavy and there is plenty of blood loss, it’s natural part of monthly for the woman, BUT when a baby is aborted…how much more blood does that take….but who cares about the blood how about the soul and the torture that another human being had to endure…..Only you Lord knows that answer, I don’t think any human being can ever capture or convey 100% what it’s like for the unborn that are unnaturally forced to die by the hands of another human being…..
Cardinal Dolan: Yes Pope Benedict XVI ‘met’ w/Pres.Obama – he did not invite him to the Vatican and particularly not to have dinner w/him;nor to spend an evening seated together at a table for all the world to see.
Yes I fear that you lack prudence in this invite. The dinner could simply be cancelled this year.Is it that you wish to keep the dinner on scheduled so that you can preside as now Cardinal Dolan? Why not cancel the event. No one would even care – especially not the candidates who have busy schedules.
I have written elsewhere that while I don’t attack you, I do take exception to the correctness of your reasoning in this matter. Notre Dame caused great scandal in ’09 w/Obama invite (reasoning as you do that it was strictly historically procedure. Not only Catholics were outraged but also great numbers of Christians and other pro life ppl who felt betrayed by Notre Dame U. based on Pres. Obama record at that time re abortion. Now nearly 4 years later Pres. Obama’ s record is far more of a betrayal to Catholics, Christians and ppl of all faiths based on his direct attacks on religious freedom; conscience; life; family (His refusal to enforce DOMA (Defense of Marriage Act – which is the law of this nation since Bill Clinton was POTUS.) and deliberately subscribing to same sex marriage as valid w/o law being passed. His has held ppl of this nation’s ppl of all faiths in contempt by his ACA mandate forcing immoralities beyond the pale on this nation or be fined or go to jail.
This is no Notre Dame event. – Cardinal Dolan as USCCB President you have invited a man who has committed all these injustices to law w/o consent of the nation, for a pleasant evening together for what purpose; except to demonstrate that you have failed in leadership on this issue. All Catholics and Christians are watching as you undermine Archbishop Lori’s position as champion for religious freedom w/Congressional Meetings;and you undermine all your brothers bishops who are fighting these abominations in their own Diocese and nationally.
When Hitler annexed Austria, the Cardinal there, also tried appeasement which was decried by the Vatican who at once sent an official Rep of Holy Father to curtail that Cardinal’s plans. He was only convinced to do so to his everlasting sorrow when Hitler betrayed every thing he had promised & began curtailing the Catholic Church in Austria. Let’s not go down that road again.
Does Cdl Dolan really expect Prez Obama to bow to him as he bowed to the King of Saudi Arabia? Whatcha wanna bet, please let there be photo ops on this if it happens, that the Cdl bows to the Prez?
sam please send that letter to the Cardinal…I really like what you posted here…God bless you.
My computer dictionary says – APOLOGIZE, express regret for something that one has done wrong. But Arch Dolan is going ahead anyway, so why this phony apology? For the last 20 years or so whenever in a crowded area, like the mall or a place like Disneyland, I have noticed that many young people will walk right in front of me almost stepping on my feet and many will blurt out “SORRY”. I have even had young people willfully look right at me just before they purposefully walk in front of my toes and while looking at me say “SORRY”. It is obvious to me that they are intentionally doing this on purpose with no concern for someone who could be their grandfather and the “SORRY” is about as heartfelt as if the person would have belched at me! Arch Dolan’s apology is just about as honest as “sorry” I have heard for 2 decades.
Cole, a helpful hint here: be quick, and step on the kids’ toes before they can step on yours. If you time it just right, what you’ll get from them will be “Sorry” and “ouch” … just be faster than they are, Cole.
JLS – There could be another way. I’ll buy a stroller! You know how strollers are used as an offensive weapon in a crowded situation? The person pushing this weapon of mass clearing (a stroller) just aims it at everyone’s shins and it’s like Moses parting the Red Sea! These stroller terrorists never have to slow down in a crowd, full stroller ahead!
But wasn’t Al Smith associated with Tammany Hall and the extremely corrupt NYC Democratic machine of his time? Why does the Archbishop of New York sponsor a dinner in his honor? Just because he was Catholic? Maybe the Archbishop of Boston could also sponsor an annual Ted Kennedy dinner.
…. and a swimming event!
I wonder if they have an idol … I mean a statue of Al Smith up their at episcopal headquarters. There must be something in the way of simply forgetting that dude. What is the sentiment all about? Is Al Smith being raised to the altars? Maybe they should make a movie about Al Smith, load it with syrup, show how great even his ghost is and why it is so critical to the Gospel and the call to holiness for the bishops to dredge his dinner up … Jesus: “dogs return to their vomit”.
Millions of Catholics will hear or read about what Cardinal Dolan is doing regarding Obama and think that it’s okay for Catholics to vote for Obama! In that case, we will end up with four more years of the most anti-Catholic, pro-abortion President in the history of the United States. Blood on the hands!
John Feeney that is my fear, that Catholics will see this as an affirmation to vote for Obama. Something tells me that my sentiments are not my imagination.
The Al Smith Dinner? I seemed to have lost my appetite. A can of beans and fresh tortillas with hot sauce at home eaten right after a prayer said in private with our Lord, welcoming a hungry stranger who just finished praying hours and hours at an abortion clinic is way worth more in honoring God.
I always wanted a perfect definition of what lukewarm is, a perfect sample or description to help me discern lukewarm…..I keep wondering. I am a product of these times, I am desensitized, we hardly can discern correctly what truly is appropriate or not appropriate….Lord I want to be fed your holy word and want to be guided but today when right is wrong and wrong is right….lukewarm no longer seems to exist, it was a word or thought created by the past….because false compassion has made us to it. We are burned at the stables Lord, we are becoming what we feared the most…we are lukewarm Lord. BLAME IT ON SCANDAL SO THEY SAY.
1) The Pope has not invited President Obama; Obama invited himself. As the head of a Country – the Holy See, the Pope has different duties than that of a US Cardinal.
Dolan invited Obama without the need to do so.
And in the past both President Clinton and Candidate John Kerry were not invited to the Al Smith dinner because of their pro-abortion positions.
2) Engagment and dialogue should take place – but at a private meeting, not a social photo-op dinner intended to yuk it up.
No one suggests that Dolan and Obama should not meet in private, and this is disingenuous at the least.
3) If Cardinal Dolan considered the innocent aborted babies as important as his brother Cardinals and Bishops
– and Obama actively supported and worked for stabbing the Bishops in the head and sucking their brains out –
do you think Dolan would invite OBAMA for an evening of “friendship and civility” ? ? ?
4) This is indeed a SCANDAL, which can lose Souls. Abortion isn’t so bad, lack of freedom of Religion isn’t so bad, you can vote for Obama because he isn’t so bad – because the Cardinals actions always speak louder than his words.
The NY Times and other secular media who support Obama will certainly use this photo-op for Obama’s advantage.
Please swallow your pride Cardinal, and disinvite Obama or postpone the dinner until after the election.
The Mortal Sin of this Scandal is just beginning. The Cardinal does not need to apologize to those of us who know our Faith, unless we are trying to evengelize others.
How many souls will be lost becuase of Cdl. Dolan’s example because to the majority who are not properly catechecised or are non-Catholic it will look like –
1) Abortion isn’t so bad, along with destruction of their human and civil rights;
2) Destruction of the Family – Gay-marriage isn’t so bad;
3) Euthanasia through government death panels isn’t so bad;
4) Governmental take over of parental rights isn’t so bad;
5) Freedom of religion isn’t really threatened.
As you stated Actions speak louder than Words.
How many souls will be lost because of Cardinal Dolan’s example? Probably none. How many souls will be lost because they vote for Obama? Probably none. You are being scrupulous. Cardinal Dolan dining with the President of the United States and the presumptive Republican candidate does not mean that he approves of abortion, same sex marriage, euthanasia, squashing parental or religious rights, invading countries, belonging to a non-Christian religion, divorce, bigamy, contraception, or tying dogs to the roof of cars. It seems that most people’s sole concern is whether it helps Obama get elected. I am glad to see that you are concerned about the spiritual consequences of this action. But I think you are overreacting. When trying to evangelize, to teach the Love of God and His Merciful Redemption, this is a non-event.
I have worked in pro life with the grant writer for the diocese of LA, great lady, nevertheless the majority of money used by Catholic Charities is US tax dollars from federal grant money, not Catholic donations. All the grants come with stipulations that prevent evangelizing and or prozelytizing of any kind,especially the Catholic kind. This scandalous invitation to Obama is all about money….ending the tax exempt status would stop this in a heartbeat. Other countries make it without the wealthy getting their write off and other government kick backs, its time we give without expecting an earthly return.
Yes, it is a fundraiser. It raises millions of dollars for children’s charities. No ticket prices are available online however the 2008 dinner with Barack Obama and John McCain raised 3.8 million dollars. Video of the dinner is $250.
Sorry K, or whoever you are, but those tickets pale in comparison to the money that the church is receiving from the government.
Wow, 3.8 million dollars in one night…. so let’s do the math, there are about 3700 abortions a day in the US alone, that’s about $1027.00 per baby aborted….is it really worth it k?
Yes, you are correct. Catholic Charties receives government grants to help the poor. Those grants do come with stipulations against proseletyzing. I’m not sure what you are trying to say. Is it that you want the Church to pay taxes and not take governmnet money and not have fundraisers that include government officials? Are you saying that the Church has sold out to the government? Obviously, I agreed with you that the dinner was about money and your response indicates that I did not understand your point.
You’ve made my point exactly, grants forbid Catholics to share the Gospel of Jesus Christ, May God have Mercy on us for every grant the Church has accepted from the US government
We’ve sold out to the government,
” Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, ” Mark, 12:17
and yes the tax exempt status needs to go too
And if I may make a far reaching prediction… If Obama is elected, and with the Cardinal’s assistance this is looking like a real possibility, our fight against the federal government promoting and bringing about euthanasia will be huge and might just come with one of his so-called executive orders!
Anybody remember fighting prop 161 in CA? I do! And if you think all the pro lifer anti abortion folks will stand with you, think again, we learned that sides change in that fight.
Wake up Cd. Dolan, your actions are killing us!
And two last things,
To all those writing here, if ever was a time to stand up and be counted with your name, martyrdom is here, the time is now! Blasting the Cardinal anonymously, albeit well deserved, is like blowing spit wads from behind a mask, the wads tend to come back and hit you in the face! Use your name to defend the innocent unborn or don’t bother.
And secondly, I for one do not accept your lame apology, Cardinal Dolan, apologies without actions to right the error are insults to those offended, not acts of heartfelt sorrow.
People who are bullies interpert NICENESS as a sign of weakness. Standing up to evil, looking it in the eye, and saying evil is wrong, is the thing to do in this case. Someone who sanctions the killing of the unborn, not only in the United States but throughtout the world,and is proud of what he is doing, is not the person to be breaking bread with. It gives the wrong messge not only to Catholics but to everyone who will be voting in November. Cardlnal Dolan, stand up and do the right thing. Or as the younger generations would say “man up”. Cancel the dinner and show us what you are made of.
Could you see the Blessed Mother rescinding an invitation to a sinner to come to the Heavenly Feast because others did not like him?
How dare you compare this dinner as the same as a heavenly feast! That is a tragic!
Not really,
i rather imagine we will all be very surprised by those we meet in heaven.
as they will be surprised at mee5ting us…
All this denial of what consequences will follow from these scandals against the faith, all this division especially when some compare worldly politically correct events to a heavenly feast is truly disturbing to me…..I don’t know how we can face our Lord after such comments……I pray for God’s mercy, how can we blame the formation that our church leadership is displaying to others, maybe I am wrong but I don’t see sweet fruit from all this…
“I invite you, your families, and every parish and religious community to trust in the power of grace to create a future of promise for God’s people in this country. I ask you, in the Lord Jesus, to set aside all division and to work with joy to prepare a way for him, in fidelity to His word and in constant conversion to His will. Above all, I urge you to continue to be a leaven of evangelical hope in American society, striving to bring the light and truth of the Gospel to the task of building an ever more just and free world for generations yet to come. Those who have hope must live different lives! By your prayers, by the witness of your faith, by the fruitfulness of your charity, may you point the way toward that vast horizon of hope which God is even now opening up to his Church and, indeed, to all humanity: the vision of a world reconciled and renewed in Christ Jesus our Savior. To Him be all honor and glory, now and forever. Amen.” Pope Benedict XVI Homily at Washington Nationals Stadium April 17, 2008
K,
at Fatima when Our Lady appeared to the three children, at first Francisco could not hear a word she said… a little boy that had no TV or radio, much less internet, he came from a good family, attended Mass, prayed everyday and worked in the pastures as a shepherd was forbidden to hear her voice until he prayed the rosary even more…to suggest the Blessed Mother would invite an abortion provider and exporter (that’s what Obama is ) infanticide enabler (remember that was one of his few votes he showed up for in Congress) sodomy promoter (gee, Obama’s that too ) and a man that is working to bring full throttle euthanasia to this country (Obama again) to a fine dining experience with a photo op with her at his side, well think again. It’s more likely she might show Obama his potential eternal dining location, Hell.
She will weep if he goes there.
Actually comparing this profane dinner to the Heavenly Feast is more like blasphemy rather than tragedy….yes really
No it is not blasphemy at all. You are demonizing a person and that is why you say the things that you do. Our Lady is the refuge of sinners.
No, k , it is blasphemy, you just don’t know the Catholic faith. To make that which is of God out to be something scandalous and profane is an indirect attack against God, and yes that makes it blasphemous.
Our Lady will not weep about anyone that goes to Hell including Obama if he does. That would show sadness over God’s Will, His Justice and His Mercy. Her will is in perfect conformity to the Will of God. To say that our Lady’s will does not conform to the Will of her Son is another way to attack God indirectly. That is also blasphemy again. I hope you read my post above about Judas and the Last Supper.
I am beginning to think you don’t make these mistakes intentionally you just need to consider studying the Catholic faith. I can’t help but notice that a lot of what you say reminds me of what some of my students say in my catechism classes. Talking about what the Faith teaches and sharing the God’s Truth does not demonize people, that is unless they stay in defiant refusal to know the Truth.
“You are demonizing a person and that is why you say the things that you do” and one more thing just for the record. I teach the faith under the direction of a Cardinal that resides at the Vatican, to accuse me of demonizing by sharing the Faith is also an indirect attack against God. It is not me you offend, but God’s Truth, but I forgive you of the insult anyway.
Denise Riggio,
I did not make something of God out to be something scandalous and profane-you spun it that way. It was not an attack on God at all. It was a comparison of how sinners are treated by God and the intercession of the Blessed Mother compared to how they get treated by us. When you ask Mary to pray for us sinners, don’t you include everyone? The invitation to the heavenly feast is open to all until the moment of death. She and Her Son will not rescind the invitation because those of us here ask him to. Your idea of Our Lady escorting a soul to Hell- I’ve never heard that. As for her crying over God’s Will-I will refer you to Jesus Lost and Jesus Crucified and Jesus taken down from the Cross and Jesus Buried. Catholic Tradition -although not scripture, has always shown her weeping and distraught. It is not against Catholic Faith to believe that she weeps when a soul goes to hell. She is a mother. Any mother weeps over the trouble their children get themselves into.
In saying that I attacked God by by accusing you of demonizing the President just is not true. Thank you for the forgiveness. My intent was not to insult you. My intent was to show you that your view of Obama is not of a soul, precious to God, whom we, by our Catholic Faith, are obliged to pray for and to treat with respect. No sin is supposed to stop us from loving him and, as our president, we have even more of a duty to show him respect. Pray a daily Memorare for him, please.
Denise Riggio thank you, you are correct..that is better description.
Denise Riggio I had to reread your comments here, they are truly correct and very beautiful! I enjoyed reading them again…God bless you!
k, Heaven is always rescinding invitations to the great feast. Anyone with a stained garment is not allowed in. When Jesus supped with sinners, He let it be known. When John the Baptist let it be known, it cost him his head. Not only will it not be made known at the Al Smith etc dinner but the opposite of losing one’s head will happen … The political machine will actually add some feathers to the bishop’s hat.
Also, Jesus tells us not to try to depict Heaven. Thus, it is vain to attempt to describe Heaven, especially by comparing it with some earthly event … and way doubly by comparing it to an event loaded with sleezeballs such as the Obama crowd. There is such a thing as gravity, and too many bishops have no idea what it is.
You are really mixing this up. The issue would be: Would Jesus not let some sinner into heaven because some other sinner didn’t want him there? And I did not compare the Al Smith dinner to heaven. Though I understand why it was taken that way.
k humility would be to accept what JLS and Denise Riggio brought to the table about you comparing this to a heavenly feast.
Why so much pride that you can’t accept what they said as truth! You are being defensive perhaps deep inside you know they are right.
I especially love the reminder that JLS posted, that we must not be so vain. We often find people to be so vain, I have to catch myself when I do that and rebuke my actions, I hope that others can do so too but it’s between God and them. Vain is also in the words that some say when they use the point that Jesus dined with sinners…they often misunderstand that one and compare/equate themselves as Jesus when they promote that reasoning to excuse their bad will.
“To all those writing here, if ever was a time to stand up and be counted with your name, martyrdom is here, the time is now!”
were you, by any chance, a drama major?
– there will be no martyrdom for you.
– putting your name on this website is neither courageous nor a big deal.
– this is merely the internet, and GOD only knows who you and i are. you could post under the name Karol Wojtyla and no one would be the wiser.
“In the end, I’m encouraged by the example of Jesus, who was blistered by his critics for dining with those some considered sinners; and by the recognition that, if I only sat down with people who agreed with me, and I with them, or with those who were saints, I’d be taking all my meals alone”.
Wellllllllllllll that is one way to gain sympathy from the naive public for having performed scandal. One must take note that yes our Lord did sit and eat with sinners; however His sitting and eating with them were not to condone their sinful activities but to teach them about the Word of God. To teach them of their offenses against God, to stop those iniquities, and to amend their lives. Did the bishop likewise follow Christ’s examples and speak in public of this great example of our Lord, or did he eat, drink, and be in merry pleasure with the sinners condoning their actions? Did the bishop publicly address the participants and take the opportunity to teach them about the sins of abortion? homosexuality? self-centeredness, expelling God from our national and public facilities around the world? My guess is no, otherwise the press corp might have got wind of it and painted the bishop as though he is the bad guy. It would have been far better had the bishop quietly and privately spent his time before the Blessed Sacrament in prayer, or hearing his sheeps confessions, absolving, and forgiving those that were truly sorry.
Amen! Bruce.
First Corinthians, chapter 5, verses 9-11 New American Bible (from Vatican site): 9 I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people, 10 not at all referring to the immoral of this world or the greedy and robbers or idolaters; for you would then have to leave the world. 11 But I now write to you not to associate with anyone named a brother, if he is immoral, greedy, an idolater, a slanderer, a drunkard, or a robber, not even to eat with such a person. ** So, there you have it; bishops can dine with non-Catholic abortionists and sodomites but not with such people who claim to be Catholic.
Good scripture passages JLS!